Goldie Ghamari - The Growing Threat of Radical Islam： Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Triggernometry

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00:00:29.000 Thank you.

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00:01:29.000 Thank you.

00:01:59.000 well good afternoon everyone hope you're doing well um if you are just

00:02:28.920 tuning in. I'll give everyone a few seconds to warm up and tune in. My name is Golbi Gamari,

00:02:34.820 host of The Golbi Show, a show where I go live on Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays

00:02:39.780 at 12 noon Eastern to talk about the pressing issues of the day with respect to the Middle

00:02:47.700 East, politics, radical Islam, and of course Islamic terrorism. Big shout out to our members

00:02:54.940 and of course the mods um just a quick note for our members uh who are watching this live stream

00:03:01.900 um make sure you go check out the members only message board uh i just put up a post and i'm

00:03:08.780 basically asking for um your feedback on what things you want me to talk about next week so

00:03:16.620 you know one of the one of the benefits of being a paid member of my youtube channel is to get

00:03:21.940 direct input, access to me. And of course, we have members only message boards. So if you are

00:03:29.380 interested in being more involved in the channel, if you're interested in supporting me, supporting

00:03:33.720 my message, you're welcome to join and become a member and then you get to see all of our posts

00:03:40.080 and have direct access to me. So with that, I just want to, I guess, get to the topic of the

00:03:45.400 day and uh you know the reason i'm going back to this is because obviously um radical islam

00:03:51.960 is is a big big problem um and it's growing more and more and part of the reason that a lot of

00:03:59.480 people who aren't familiar with islamic terrorism and radicalism um part of the reason that they're

00:04:06.440 sort of confused about all of this is because the radical islamists are using language such as

00:04:14.680 resistance or freedom or whatever the case might be you know words that are um attributed to

00:04:22.280 positive things they're using those words to describe um their violent aggressive behavior

00:04:30.360 they're using words like you know victim they're they're calling themselves the you know the the

00:04:35.880 occupied um you know whatever the case might be meanwhile those of us who are from the middle east

00:04:41.880 know full well that um they are in fact the colonizers they are in fact the invaders um

00:04:51.000 there's a reason that the vast majority of the middle east and north africa speak arabic it

00:04:57.240 wasn't by accident it was through colonization right um these are just the hard truths and you

00:05:01.880 know it has nothing to do um with with religion or anything like that it's just this is the reality

00:05:08.120 right this is this is history this is fact you cannot deny it and yet what these invaders and

00:05:14.920 colonizers do is um within north american uh discourse and dialogue and also european as

00:05:24.600 well so pretty much i would say within like english discourse and dialogue um they bank

00:05:30.120 on people not knowing the real history of the middle east not knowing how things truly are

00:05:38.120 And they bank on people's ignorance to push their radical ideology.

00:05:44.620 And if you push back or criticize, they accuse you of Islamophobia.

00:05:48.440 Right. And again, like I cannot play this video enough.

00:05:54.740 Right. This video here from the Sheikh of the United Arab Emirates, the Foreign Affairs Minister of the United Arab Emirates.

00:06:03.900 right um sheikh abdullah bin zayed like you know i for those of you who watch my channel

00:06:09.820 you guys know i pretty much share this video almost every other every other show because

00:06:14.060 it's just so critical right and uh guys remember so the united arab emirates is a muslim country

00:06:20.460 okay um muslim country um muslim majority um this gentleman here he is a muslim um and he

00:06:30.700 here he is warning the west in 2017 about the threat of radicalism right this was um

00:06:39.180 almost almost nine years ago now that he said this and everything that he said nine years ago

00:06:46.780 is now coming to pass because those of us who are from the middle east we know the signs we see the

00:06:52.940 signs we're calling out the signs but yet we are being attacked as islamophobic by the same people

00:07:00.380 who are who are instigating the violence not just um in the middle east but in north america as

00:07:06.300 well so let's just let's just watch this and pay attention to what he's saying and uh and let me

00:07:12.380 say this in english so you can understand what i'm saying i have translation no i know you

00:07:17.820 have translation but i'm i just want to make sure you get it right there will come a day

00:07:25.420 that we will see far more radical extremists and terrorists coming out of Europe because of lack

00:07:34.960 of decision-making, trying to be politically correct, or assuming that they know the Middle

00:07:45.940 East and they know Islam and they know the others far better than we do. And I'm sorry,

00:07:52.240 but that's pure ignorance right so pay attention to those who know what they're talking about

00:08:04.720 listen to them listen to their experiences um last episode we heard an interview with

00:08:11.680 bridget gabriel from over 20 years ago that was an interview that she had 21 years ago in 2004

00:08:21.440 and for those of you who were with me during that live stream or for those of you who watch it

00:08:25.760 afterwards you know i commented and i said everything that she said 21 years ago like if

00:08:31.680 she had that exact same interview today nothing that she said would change right um so we're

00:08:39.680 going to go now to ayin hersey ali i've i've um i've shown her speeches before but this is a

00:08:47.120 relatively new one. This is from last year. So this is from the Trigonometry podcast. So Ayaan

00:08:52.920 Hirsti Ali is a Somali-born human rights activist, writer, and former politician. To escape an

00:09:00.020 arranged marriage, she sought political asylum in the Netherlands at the age of 23. In her early

00:09:05.200 30s, she renounced the Islamic faith of her childhood and began identifying as an atheist,

00:09:11.120 becoming an outspoken critic of Islam in the wake of the September 11th terrorist attacks.

00:09:17.120 In late 2023, Ayan shocked many by announcing her conversion to Christianity.

00:09:24.300 She has recently launched a new platform, Restoration, which aims to unite and equip those who want to restore the confidence and institutions of the West.

00:09:36.220 So we are going to now go ahead and play this podcast and let's see what Ayan has to say.

00:09:44.820 and guys remember so she um she grew up muslim she grew up in somalia right so a muslim society

00:09:54.340 um and she does not hold back when she's talking about the extremism that is prevalent um

00:10:04.340 in in the society that that she was raised in right

00:10:08.020 I think we're in a worse place today than we were in 2001, and so it is for me a bit

00:10:17.960 of a nightmare that Europe is resembling the sorts of streets and places that I left.

00:10:24.920 When you have a scenario where violent, radical white supremacists face off with radical Islamist 0.87

00:10:34.640 jihadis, then it's not Europe anymore. How do you deal with it without becoming the thing you don't 0.86

00:10:41.620 want to become? Ayan Herseli, welcome back to the show. So good to have you back. I don't want to

00:10:48.920 waste any time at all. You are someone who's been talking about one issue for a very long time,

00:10:55.320 which was Islamism and Islam. And the other issue about which you're increasingly talking about is

00:11:01.740 Christianity and the role of faith in society as well. I want to start with the first of those two

00:11:07.620 because since the days after 9-11, which feels like it was a different world when it was a

00:11:16.080 different world, you've been trying to raise the alarm. You've risked your life. Friends of yours

00:11:21.460 have been murdered because they were talking. One of the things I want to point out as well is that

00:11:26.520 a lot of the younger people who are supporting Hamas and supporting the fake Palestinian cause

00:11:35.960 and supporting um Islamic terrorism and you know they're labeling it as like resistance or you know

00:11:41.600 whatever other nonsense they want to label it as um many of them were born after 9-11 right and so

00:11:50.420 they they never experienced that they don't they don't have any understanding of it um for those of

00:11:57.140 us who who witnessed and experienced 9-11 i mean i was i was 16 years old um and i remember sitting

00:12:07.700 in school and then the news came and it was just absolutely horrifying right um and what was even

00:12:14.500 more horrifying to me is um when the news of 9 11 hit certain groups were out there celebrating

00:12:25.140 um you know let me pull it up for you like

00:12:32.660 and uh these like these were the same people who celebrated the october 7 terrorist attack guys

00:12:42.340 okay like here let me gosh let me show this to you so like a lot of a lot of these young people

00:12:51.280 who are supporting the fake palestinian cause have no idea that these same palestinians were

00:12:56.680 celebrating when you know 3 000 americans were murdered in an islamic terrorist attack on u.s

00:13:05.160 soil right like how that just shows you how bad the indoctrination is like guys watch this this

00:13:14.720 this is from fox news okay this is fox news and you know it's available on youtube right so you

00:13:21.180 you know just search it up and it says hate on 9-11 footage of palestinians celebrating the

00:13:27.680 attacks aired on CNN, MSNBC, and Fox News.

00:13:57.680 in this sneak attack and there you see a v for victory sign uh held up to the camera uh what

00:14:03.040 are we to make of that and what are we to make of what uh about what uh yasser arafat said today

00:14:09.840 the united states blamed by some palestinians for its ongoing support as it is seen of israel

00:14:16.160 in this uh conflict in this middle eastern conflict however while some palestinians were

00:14:21.440 taking to the streets in apparent celebration one youth was quoted as saying as he received a sweet

00:14:26.960 sweets handed around in celebration this is a sweet from osama bin laden he said

00:14:33.440 pat dawson thanks very much we have some videotape i understand that we're going to show

00:14:37.920 you uh from the west bank these are palestinian celebrations in the wake of tuesday's terror

00:14:43.680 attacks in the united states how apparently palestinians took to the street chanting god

00:14:49.040 is great people were throwing candy distributing candy to passers-by the u.s government obviously

00:14:57.440 has did you hear that one of them was yelling aloha akbar did you catch that guys

00:15:02.320 distributing candy to passers-by

00:15:06.720 the u.s government obviously has become increasingly increasingly unpopular particularly

00:15:12.320 in the west bank and gaza strip because palestinians feel that the u.s government has sided

00:15:18.160 with israel one man nawal abdel fatah wearing a long glass black dress through sweets in the air

00:15:25.760 saying actually that's a woman pardon me saying she was happy because quote america is the head

00:15:30.880 of the snake america always stands by israel and it's war against us meanwhile yasser arafat emerged

00:15:37.680 to speak with reporters there you go guys um

00:15:48.160 you go palestinians celebrating 9 11. right i mean just watch these images guys right

00:15:58.720 a lot of the young people a lot of young americans today have no idea that when 9 11 happened um

00:16:06.000 palestinians were celebrating that islamic terrorist attack i mean even if okay let's say

00:16:14.240 let's say even if you know they how do i put this um you can oppose someone politically okay 0.79

00:16:24.640 without celebrating their death right like a normal civilized human being right if i have

00:16:33.360 a disagreement with someone over something okay that doesn't mean that if something bad happens

00:16:40.640 to them i'm going to celebrate it by dancing and chanting and and passing out sweets no i would

00:16:47.680 feel bad for them because i'm they're still a human being and you know i have empathy and so

00:16:53.840 you know just because we have a difference of opinion on politics it doesn't mean that i

00:16:59.040 should celebrate um their death but that's exactly what these palestinians were doing on september

00:17:05.520 11 right no empathy no nothing right innocent innocent women and children were murdered by

00:17:13.440 islamic terrorists on september 11 2001 and these palestinians are throwing out the v and you know

00:17:20.640 waving the the palestinian flag right and then they did the exact same thing on october 7 right

00:17:29.120 these are the people that young americans are now supporting like these are the people

00:17:37.180 that young americans think are victims and are oppressed or you know whatever other other

00:17:43.160 nonsense right like this is how bad the infiltration is in western countries um in the

00:17:51.520 united states in particular right not the same um because these young people have absolutely 0.94

00:17:58.640 no idea that they are hated by these Palestinians, right? They've been brainwashed, 0.73

00:18:06.640 and now they've become the useful idiot for these Islamic invaders and these jihadis, right? 1.00

00:18:15.920 I mean, just look at New York. Look at New York. Look at who they voted for. 1.00

00:18:19.900 They voted for a guy who, you know, in his 9-11 speech, instead of speaking about the victims of 9-11, he spoke about Islamophobia.

00:18:32.900 This is how they get you. It's through this gaslighting, right?

00:18:35.640 They twist the narrative and then all these young people fall for it.

00:18:39.800 And some of them, some of them have been so indoctrinated that if you try to, you know, show them these videos of Palestinians celebrating, they'll either think it's fake or they'll think Palestinians are justified, right?

00:18:53.180 Like there are literally young Americans out there who are so indoctrinated that they believe that Palestinians are justified in celebrating their murder. 1.00

00:19:05.600 And then I think to myself, like, how stupid can you be? 1.00

00:19:08.240 do you think that if you were in israel on october 7th um they would have spared you 1.00

00:19:15.600 you would have been one of the first people to go like it's it's it's insane but anyway so um

00:19:23.040 that's why that's why this is a big deal guys this is like you have to take this threat seriously

00:19:30.240 let's see what i and her sealy has to say oh

00:19:32.880 where are we in relation to that issue in western europe united states the west more generally

00:19:41.680 um well thank you very much for having me first it's lovely to be here again i think for the

00:19:46.560 second time um where are we on the threats of radical political islam i think we're in a worse

00:19:55.600 place today than we were in 2001. We've spent trillions of dollars and a lot of blood and I

00:20:05.440 think we have come, I'm coming to the conclusion, what is wrong with our Western leaders? Do we have

00:20:14.320 some kind of curse on us that prevents us from seeing the determination of the radical political

00:20:24.640 islamists who want to spread their message which ultimately is the establishment of an islamic state

00:20:31.920 based on sharia law so initially with 2001 the news broke with those islamists who wanted to

00:20:41.280 accomplish the objective of establishing an islamic state through violence we took passenger planes

00:20:48.240 they knocked down the twin towers they were on their way to knocking down the white house and

00:20:53.200 and they managed to knock a wing of the Pentagon.

00:20:55.900 And they didn't want to stop this.

00:20:57.520 They wanted to use jihad as a means of shock and awe.

00:21:03.520 And we, I think, got trapped by, if you remember it,

00:21:09.880 you're probably too young to remember that.

00:21:11.920 It was quite spectacular, and it was history changing.

00:21:18.720 And the reaction from the United States

00:21:21.980 the rest of the West was to meet them with force. Because of the military

00:21:28.340 supremacy of the United States of America, the rest of the West, it was

00:21:33.200 relatively easy to subdue and eliminate the structures of Al-Qaeda to bring down

00:21:40.040 Osama bin Laden as their leader. And when out of that group, a new group, through

00:21:45.980 al-Zargawi, the Islamic State emerged and hijacked territory, captured territory in Iraq and Syria,

00:21:55.980 we did the same thing again. We were confronted with this determination of these groups to use

00:22:02.460 brutal force and they were met with military deterrence. They were removed. There is no

00:22:09.260 structure called the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria anymore. But what over the years we have

00:22:14.780 failed to see is the other side, the da'wah side. So not the jihadists, but within the Islamist

00:22:24.300 political groups, there is the, in my view, much stronger, more insidious, more sinister group,

00:22:33.740 which tries to expand and reach that objective of establishing an Islamic State

00:22:38.780 through Dawah. And Dawah is basically the plan. It is to bring Muslims, those people

00:22:49.240 who identify as Muslim, to transform them from just religious people, people who identify

00:22:59.180 with the faith but who are not political, into political tools for the objective. And

00:23:04.620 take it one step further and convert non-Muslims. And on top of that, to Islamize institutions.

00:23:11.740 It's a long-term plan. It's gradual. There is a hybrid form. There are some people within the

00:23:17.660 Islamist circles who say we should use the gradualist means, and then when

00:23:24.460 the opportunity is right, we should use force. So all of these three flavors, if you will,

00:23:31.100 of Islamizing society, working towards this objective of a Sharia-based society,

00:23:37.180 be it local, regional, or global.

00:23:40.140 They exist, they're expanding, and we are standing by and watching this happen

00:23:46.700 in traditionally non-Muslim territories, in traditionally Christian or Judeo-Christian societies.

00:23:57.600 We've seen them make attempts like this in India.

00:24:01.920 Again, watch the pushback there.

00:24:05.300 In China, the way the Chinese government is dealing with Islamist sedition is absolutely abhorrent.

00:24:14.420 And that is something we in the West can only condemn.

00:24:17.620 We do not want to take our Muslim communities and put them in camps and, you know, enslave them, 1.00

00:24:26.820 torture them, rape them, sterilize them. These are against every principle we believe in. 1.00

00:24:37.700 I have a comment from Yabs. She has been through so much.

00:24:41.220 Oh yeah. I have nothing but respect for that woman and I'm usually an a-hole. Oh wow.

00:24:47.620 Yeah, I have a lot of respect for Aya and she's been through so much, you know, so many death threats. She had to escape the Netherlands there. Yeah, like it's just, but you know, it's unfortunate. But this is typical of anyone who speaks out, right? Even myself, like what I have been through, like my past, and you know, the current death threats that I get, right? Like I have to be very careful as well.

00:25:13.740 And that's why you don't see a lot of people speaking out, because it is a very, very real and legitimate threat to our lives, because these people are violent, right? These are the people who yell aloha akbar and chop people's heads off, right?

00:25:30.900 These are people who legitimately believe that killing infidels, infidels, is their Allah-given duty. 0.98

00:25:38.840 So, yeah, it is scary.

00:25:41.840 And I have a lot of respect for Ayaan.

00:25:44.720 Phenomenal, phenomenal woman.

00:25:46.300 Very, very brave.

00:25:47.680 And, you know, everything she says is just always, like, spot on.

00:25:52.500 and looking at that extreme of what the Chinese Communist Party is doing to the Uyghurs and then

00:26:05.820 looking at the other side of you know when the Islamists use violence we're going to go after

00:26:13.740 those individuals who use violence and their organizations and put that down but do nothing

00:26:19.440 else about the spread of the ideology, I think we have opened ourselves up for the establishment

00:26:28.400 of a huge infrastructure of da'wah. And so it's like a cancer. The Islamist message and the agents

00:26:39.520 of da'wah, the Islamists who are pushing it, are in our education system. They have their own schools

00:26:45.040 and Islamic centers and mosques and madrasas. They've now infiltrated universities. They are

00:26:51.120 in political parties. And so through perfectly peaceful and legal means, they have established

00:26:58.640 themselves. And here we are sitting back and watching this. And I think one of the

00:27:04.160 most shocking things you see today in 2024 on our streets is this

00:27:12.320 chanting of genocidal slogans at Jewish communities in Europe, in the United States,

00:27:21.200 in Britain, in France, in Germany. For the Jewish community today it feels like it's the 1930s

00:27:27.600 and this is Islamist driven anti-Jewish propaganda. And so I find when I first

00:27:36.720 came in here I said oh goodness I'm being mic'd up again to talk about the

00:27:40.320 same things I was talking about what in 2001 don't we ever learn you know my

00:27:46.780 first experience on camera was in the Netherlands it was a program called

00:27:51.600 a random teen where there was two long benches full of you know members of the audience who speak

00:28:00.320 and there were young jihadi men snarling at me and back then my friend Naima Tahir who I think

00:28:10.000 is still in the Netherlands and she and I were educated in the Netherlands we were our backgrounds

00:28:17.120 were Muslim and we had come to accept and admire the principles and the values of the country we

00:28:26.320 lived in and we were there sitting and defending them and these guys were really snarling at us

00:28:31.360 and I look back to that moment which she and I were talking about and over time many other

00:28:36.000 ex-Muslims and peaceful Muslims have joined us and it's the same thing and the problem is just

00:28:42.160 getting bigger and bigger and first of all can i just fact check you we're not too old to remember

00:28:50.240 9-11 sadly but thank you for the compliment but thank you for the compliment i remember very well

00:28:55.920 and i think it was clear that the world changed fundamentally at that moment i suppose you know

00:29:01.360 we've seen in the uk only in recent days the election of uh clearly i mean people who uh

00:29:08.080 stand for the green party a local councillor who on being elected give his first speech which he

00:29:13.360 ends with the words Allah Akbar free Palestine etc nothing to do about the local council that

00:29:18.800 that he's elected to represent.

00:29:21.240 This is a win for the people of Gaza.

00:29:24.040 Who will be...

00:29:29.040 We will not be silent.

00:29:30.760 We will raise the voice of Gaza.

00:29:32.800 We will raise the voice of Palestine.

00:29:38.160 Guys, so if you didn't catch that,

00:29:39.600 this guy, okay, this like Islamist,

00:29:44.160 this is his victory speech

00:29:45.920 he became the mayor of a city in london i think it's like birmingham or something

00:29:54.160 um what the heck does municipal politics have to do with with the middle east

00:30:02.480 right like that's not even your mandate that's not even your mandate um first of all second of all

00:30:07.520 even if it was like what the hell you got elected um to be a uh british politician

00:30:17.360 and to put england first does this look like this guy is about to put england first guys i was a

00:30:23.760 politician for seven years okay um when i was a politician for seven years i was a canadian

00:30:30.320 politician and it was my responsibility to put canada first and that's exactly what i did

00:30:38.240 right um i still raised awareness about iran and human rights violations in in iran by the islamic

00:30:45.280 republic but i did that in my spare time okay like that was something i did um when i was not you

00:30:51.360 know officially working as a politician um at no point in my campaign because i i did two elections

00:30:59.360 right i ran two elections at no point in either of my campaigns um did i ever talk about iran or

00:31:07.760 the middle east or anything like that right like my election campaign was focused on my mandate

00:31:13.360 which is you know health care education uh you know like the local priorities i had for the

00:31:17.920 community right like one thing that i wanted to do one of my goals was to build schools um

00:31:22.800 Um, and, you know, within, within the two terms, so within seven years, I managed to

00:31:27.400 get, um, funding, funding from the province to build 15 schools.

00:31:32.180 Okay.

00:31:32.500 So within seven years, I worked my, worked my butt off to, to secure funding, to build

00:31:38.720 15 schools in, in the area that I represented, which is pretty much a record.

00:31:42.880 Like, I don't know of any other politician, um, in Ontario who managed to get funding

00:31:47.280 to build 15 schools in seven years.

00:31:49.020 okay so like these are some of like the local uh accomplishments that i had as a politician

00:31:55.260 uh because i was putting my constituency first right like that that is what people voted for me

00:32:01.340 to do they voted for me to represent them and their needs and to be their voice right and that's

00:32:08.220 exactly what i did um even you know in the parliament um in the ontario legislature my focus

00:32:13.580 was all on um you know you know things dealing with ontario anytime i spoke about iran or raised

00:32:21.020 awareness about iran or anything like that which i did a lot of but that's something i did in my

00:32:26.080 spare time right like when i was on on the campaign trail or you know when i was out somewhere talking

00:32:31.960 or giving a speech or something i never did this ever ever right like this to me guys this is

00:32:38.820 horrifying this to me looks like an invasion not looks like sorry this is an invasion right

00:32:46.320 if just just listening to his horrifying speech by the way um it's obvious that he was not voted

00:32:55.240 in because of his local priorities or what he wants to do for the the you know birmingham or

00:33:02.560 birmington or whatever city he's the mayor of right he obviously got voted in by a block right

00:33:08.580 like so again i guess like i don't know the muslims or whatever voted for him because he

00:33:12.340 campaigned on freeing gaza how the hell is a mayor in some uk city going to free gaza but this should

00:33:21.140 scare you guys what how is this british any like this this looks like you know this looks like um

00:33:28.020 a victory speech from someone in pakistan or bangladesh right like let's just listen to this

00:33:35.540 listen to this again like to me like again as a politician I'm watching this and I'm just like

00:33:40.500 what the hell were people thinking right and one of the reasons that I did not run again okay because

00:33:47.620 I ran for two terms I was a politician for seven years one of the reasons I did not run again is

00:33:51.960 because I decided that you know I had accomplished everything I wanted to do locally but now I've

00:33:57.840 wanted to move on and I want to focus on you know Iran and human rights and Islamic terrorism and

00:34:02.620 things like that on a full-time, full-time basis, right? And I knew that it wouldn't be fair or even

00:34:11.460 like ethical to be a Canadian politician and not prioritize Canadian issues, right? Like I decided

00:34:18.960 to step aside and become a private citizen again so that I can prioritize Iran, for example. That's

00:34:24.720 why i have the flag of pre-islamic iran behind me right if i was a canadian politician i would

00:34:33.480 have the flag of canada behind me this guy i don't see i don't see any british flags here i don't see

00:34:39.860 the flag of the uk here i see palestine symbols instead i see a kefir instead but i don't see

00:34:47.320 anything here that shows me that this is england all i see is a palestine flag guys this guy was

00:34:54.900 running to be a mayor and instead of having the british flag he has the flag of palestine behind

00:35:00.900 him this is what an invasion looks like guys watch this again like it's just this is this is wild

00:35:10.640 and he's not even like wearing british clothes he's wearing like islamic et cetera nothing to

00:35:16.320 do about the local council that he's elected to represent and I just think

00:35:37.560 that all sorts of other markers if you guys think that's multiculturalism and

00:35:43.440 diversity um you guys need to wake up that is not multiculturalism and diversity that is invasion

00:35:51.500 that people can see what you're talking about with their own eyes and from the people people

00:35:57.760 are very afraid of talking about this issue but behind closed doors everybody knows what's going

00:36:05.000 on to what extent has uh have our policies on mass immigration contributed to where we are

00:36:12.500 Or is it more that when people do come, we fail to integrate them, assimilate them?

00:36:18.120 Like, how are we here?

00:36:20.580 So in my experience, again, to go back to those, for me, early days when I started to participate in this debate and say, look, here's what the threat is and what it looks like.

00:36:30.780 The first obstacle, I think, to a broader insight, was the members of the elite, politicians, academics, journalists, who said, you know, oh, you poor thing, you traumatized little girl from Somalia, you don't understand, you know, we are this open society.

00:36:54.200 we're going to approach this the way we've been doing things for a good long time we

00:37:00.200 sophisticated a lot and you know what that's such a good point there because um those of us who do

00:37:08.160 speak out we get talked down to by you know the westerners let's say right um and that the same

00:37:17.100 treatment that she gets many of us get too right like you have these like woke lefties or whoever

00:37:22.500 these progressives and when we when we tell them when we warn them that's exactly what they say

00:37:27.220 they say oh you're just you're traumatized you don't know what we're talking about we

00:37:31.780 we know we know what we're doing we know what we're doing let us let us tell you right like they

00:37:38.180 um for some reason they've decided to um disregard the voices of people like ian like bridget gabriel

00:37:49.140 like myself like others who speak out they disregard our voices because they don't like

00:37:53.300 our narrative because our narrative doesn't fit with um with their agenda and you know yeah i saw

00:38:01.140 your comment where you said multiculturalism is having indian food with your chinese friends 100

00:38:05.860 like to me that's multiculturalism what we're seeing right now is is pretty much um it's it's

00:38:12.500 societal suicide and that was through consensus and the prevailing philosophy at the time was

00:38:19.540 multiculturalism and so the idea was if we give a little they will give a little and together

00:38:27.380 we will go through this where they adapt and we adapt and we establish this beautiful multicultural

00:38:35.300 yeah except the problem is um islamists will never give a little because if you give a little

00:38:41.700 then they see that as a sign of weakness and then they demand more and more and more and more and

00:38:45.860 they will never actually give in return so um if you think you're like negotiating and you're going

00:38:51.540 to meet in the middle that's absolutely not the case the more weakness you like the more you try

00:38:56.660 to appease them um the weaker you're going to appear to them because they don't view appeasement

00:39:03.380 or negotiation as as a sign of like working together they they view negotiation or appeasement

00:39:09.860 um as weakness and then they'll just push you as far as they can societies immigration was a part

00:39:17.540 of that debate where as we were having those conversations all over europe um it was well

00:39:26.500 assuming that this multiculturalist consensus building bridge building sophisticated

00:39:33.460 wonderful way would work would be just from a rational perspective just from a numbers perspective

00:39:40.740 wouldn't it be practical to stop immigration

00:39:48.900 integrate or assimilate as the word assimilation wasn't used it was integrated assimilation was

00:39:54.180 considered to be an insult to to the Muslims and to the immigrants it had to it had to come from

00:40:00.420 both ways. In any case, why don't we take the lot who are already here, get to that utopia of

00:40:07.700 multiculturalism, and then slowly you could talk about having more immigrants coming.

00:40:14.900 But that's not what in the end happened. What in the end happened was

00:40:18.900 those who had come and their children who had been radicalized in this da'wah infrastructure,

00:40:30.640 the mosques and the madrasas in Europe, they continued to broaden their parallel society.

00:40:41.280 I don't know how else to describe it. They have sort of Sharia-lite ghettos,

00:40:46.300 And those were allowed to thrive. But at the same time, the borders were also flung open through the asylum and refugee system.

00:40:55.560 So now you have the opposite of what was the desired outcome, which is a group of mainly imams and other radical Islamist elites who have captured the hearts and minds of Muslim immigrants and their children who are saying,

00:41:15.880 do not integrate, do not assimilate, reject the values of the host country. And then everyone who

00:41:24.240 comes in, they're the ones in town, they're the ones who bring them in, bring them into the mosques

00:41:28.740 and radicalize them. So you have this paradox where there are refugees from Syria, Iraq,

00:41:35.280 Afghanistan, Sudan, Somalia, who are not at all Islamists. They're fleeing war-torn countries,

00:41:41.960 war-torn because of sharia by the way and they come into the uk france sweden germany etc

00:41:48.540 and that is where they are taught to become through dawah to become radical islamists

00:41:55.400 ian and do you think part of the problem here is that islamism is so different from the way

00:42:05.420 western people see the world that we really can't understand it we really and as a result of not

00:42:12.780 being able to understand it we can't comprehend and intellectualize the dangers that it poses

00:42:19.660 um the answer is yes and no i think we have an experience uh in western europe and in america

00:42:31.180 with the intolerance or the rise of intolerant ideas, talking about National Socialism for

00:42:39.280 instance, and the ideas in America that were used to defend the institution of slavery and

00:42:44.520 segregation. We've come to see that those were absolutely horrible, abhorrent ideas and we've

00:42:50.320 rejected them. And part of showing that we are atoning for the past is to, the way we

00:43:01.300 deal with radical political Islam, we recognize it for what it is. There is plenty of scholarship

00:43:07.960 now in every country to show that radical political Islam is totalitarian, it is anti-human, 0.98

00:43:15.040 anti-freedom, it's anti-woman, it's anti-Jewish, it's homophobic. And they show us over and over 0.99

00:43:22.880 again, you know, when the Islamic State of Iraq and Syria was established, they proceeded actually to

00:43:28.240 carry out what it would be like to live in an Islamic State. So we know that, we know it not

00:43:33.280 only through scholarship, but also what they readily show us. When Hamas on October 7 went

00:43:38.800 into Israel to attack the people that they hated. The way they treated them, part of that was

00:43:46.000 defended with Islamic scripture or with the Islamist ideology. So it is no secret at all

00:43:53.340 to any of our Western leaders, regardless of where that leader, moral leadership, political

00:43:59.420 leadership, scholarship, any kind. It's absolutely clear to us what radical Islam entails. But somehow

00:44:06.740 we can't get ourselves disconnected from this idea of atoning for our past sins,

00:44:12.900 the sins of slavery, of colonialism, of causing the Holocaust. And now here we are. I remember

00:44:20.420 a conversation I used to have openly with the mayor of Amsterdam, where he plainly said,

00:44:26.580 we should not treat Muslim minorities in Holland the way the Jews were treated in the 1930s.

00:44:32.980 there is this constant reference and in my view absolutely wrong reference of the totalitarian

00:44:42.260 terrible ideologies of Europe and America to say the only way to atone for it is to

00:44:51.060 give a free pass to this new totalitarian ideology. By the way, Islamism is not like

00:45:01.140 you know, the Jews who were persecuted in the 30s, there was never a Jewish empire.

00:45:11.040 Jews never held slaves.

00:45:15.940 There were Islamic empires who held slaves and who segregated people and who continued to do that.

00:45:22.900 And yet somehow we...

00:45:24.880 Yeah, and we've spoken about that, guys.

00:45:26.820 remember so when you um if you've watched my previous episodes uh the one where i speak about

00:45:31.460 matt walsh um and we speak about the ottoman empire um which of course had many many european

00:45:38.060 slaves as well right like uh and the barbary corsairs um that were based out of like north

00:45:43.640 africa they actually would go and raid european villages and you know capture white people and

00:45:50.400 take them and sell them as slaves in the middle east we find ourselves inhibited um frigid when

00:45:58.880 it comes to seeing this problem and dealing with it appropriately while we still have time and

00:46:05.520 while there are still you know we have options that are open to us why do you think it is that

00:46:10.160 we're so reticent about talking about this problem and then actually dealing with it and tackling it

00:46:15.840 head on? So what I can report to you is I was a politician actually operating within a proper

00:46:23.040 liberal democracy in our parliament within in that context and if I give you an aggregation

00:46:30.080 of all the arguments every person on either side we don't have two one isle of two sides in Holland

00:46:38.800 we had several parties it's the proportional representation system so it's a bit more crowded

00:46:43.920 But all of them were saying, look, we have a constitution and this constitution guarantees

00:46:51.920 the following things.

00:46:52.920 It guarantees the freedom of religion, the freedom of association, the freedom of speech.

00:46:59.180 We have schools, religious schools in the Netherlands paid for by the government.

00:47:04.740 And so if an Islamist wants to open a school to indoctrinate, we know he's going to program

00:47:09.880 children with the totalitarian ideology of Islamism.

00:47:13.820 He gets not only a license to open this school, but he also gets money.

00:47:19.120 So we knew all of these things and we can't stop it because our laws forbid us from doing

00:47:26.100 anything other than if they cross over to the line of violence, then we will go and

00:47:31.420 pick those individuals up, we'll surveil them, if possible we'll bring them to court, there's

00:47:37.920 really not much else we can do.

00:47:40.560 In which case, these constitutions, they sort of turn into, you know, what one American

00:47:47.180 scholar right after 9-11 called the constitution is seen as a suicide pact.

00:47:53.000 And we're talking about indoctrination here.

00:47:57.400 And one of the most worrying things is it's not just refugees who are coming from war

00:48:01.140 torn countries, it's they're indoctrinating our youth as well.

00:48:07.160 A perfect example of this is Shamima Begin, a girl who left the UK at 15 to go and join ISIS.

00:48:17.640 So the case of Shamima Begin is very very interesting and I think I followed it a little

00:48:22.680 bit in the UK and what I see again is a very legalistic conversation that is very much beside

00:48:31.560 the point. Should this young woman come back to the UK? Should she, should her

00:48:37.740 citizenship be revoked? It was revoked. Should she get her citizenship back? No,

00:48:41.760 she should not. That's where the conversation is stuck. When actually the

00:48:49.920 conversation should be, what on earth was going on in Bethnal Green? Who is, who are

00:48:56.820 the grown-ups who programmed her and the other young women, and the other young

00:49:01.440 people and why are we not holding those grown-ups who programmed her accountable

00:49:09.240 that's a very good point right so so what Ayan is trying to say here guys pay

00:49:13.840 attention so she's talking about the case of like these girls who were

00:49:19.460 indoctrinated and then I think they left to join ISIS as like ISIS brides and

00:49:26.720 then some of them are now like trying to come back and UK is like no you stay

00:49:31.400 and you know whatever refugee camp there with all the other isis um prisoners or whatever and you

00:49:37.160 know so she's saying that the debate right now is whether or not uh these people these young women

00:49:43.240 in england um or wherever in europe were radicalized and sent over the debate is whether or

00:49:49.640 not they should come back but what she is trying to point out is that the the young women who were

00:49:56.360 radicalized and convinced to leave um a free democratic open fair society like the uk

00:50:05.880 leave that and go become the bride of an of an isis islamic terrorist right they were

00:50:12.360 indoctrinated it's not like these women just woke up one day and said i'm gonna leave my country 0.99

00:50:17.880 go to a third world islamic hellhole and become the fourth fourth wife of like some guy uh you 0.97

00:50:24.280 know who's like an islamic terrorists and murders infidels for a living right it's not like someone 0.97

00:50:29.000 just woke up one day and decided that these women were indoctrinated there's clearly some sort of 0.97

00:50:35.400 network or institution or something in the uk right that is creating the space for these women

00:50:46.040 to come and become indoctrinated right so what she's trying to point out is the conversation

00:50:52.120 shouldn't really be about whether or not that girl is coming back we should instead be focusing on

00:50:57.320 how the heck was she indoctrinated in the first place who was responsible for that let's go after

00:51:03.320 those people because those people are obviously a threat to society right those people are bad 0.97

00:51:11.800 actors those people are radicalizing um young people and bringing them over to the islamic

00:51:20.120 jihad cause right so that's what she's saying and you know she makes a very good point there because

00:51:25.000 um the conversation about whether or not the you know these women should come back

00:51:29.800 that's a conversation about the symptom right but she's saying rather than focusing on the symptom

00:51:36.520 we should be focusing on the cause because if you just want to treat the symptom but you don't treat

00:51:43.640 the cause well the symptoms are just going to happen over and over again and it might even get

00:51:47.560 worse right if you want to you know think of like a cancer patient if you want to treat the cancer

00:51:54.280 you don't go after the symptoms you go after the cancer cells that's what she's trying to say here

00:51:58.760 she's saying why are we not focusing on the people who created the conditions to radicalize these

00:52:05.960 british women and convince them to go and join an islamic terrorist group and and become the third

00:52:11.960 or fourth wife of i don't know muhammad or abdul or whatever and no one's talking about that for

00:52:18.520 for the fact that they did this uh i remember it was a few years ago watching attention to this part

00:52:27.880 should be revoked it was revoked should she get her citizenship back no she should not

00:52:33.240 that's where the conversation is stuck

00:52:36.280 when actually the conversation should be, what on earth was going on in Bethnal Green?

00:52:45.720 Who are the grown-ups who programmed her and the other young women and the other young people?

00:52:53.320 And why are we not holding those grown-ups who programmed her accountable for the fact that

00:53:00.440 they did this. I remember it was a few years ago watching her father give interviews where he was

00:53:08.520 sort of throwing his hands up in the air and saying, I don't know, she ran away. And I think

00:53:15.000 the dads of the other young women were doing the same thing. And I remember thinking that his story

00:53:19.320 didn't add up. He surely must have known what was going on with his daughter in his own household.

00:53:25.880 Because really, if you are growing up as a female, as a girl in a Muslim household,

00:53:32.960 everybody knows what you're doing, what your plans are.

00:53:36.320 And so my suspicion was all the grown-ups around these girls encouraged them and helped them

00:53:43.580 and programmed them to go and join the Islamic State.

00:53:46.540 And now here she is.

00:53:48.100 She has gone through all of these horrors, and she's left sitting there holding the ball.

00:53:58.680 And all the grown-ups have gotten away with it, and our society, the British society, the American society, and so on,

00:54:06.760 they're not going after the grown-ups.

00:54:09.480 They're not going after the people who are propagating the ideas and filling these young hearts and minds with these ideas.

00:54:17.000 When I was in the Netherlands, I was in Parliament, I was threatened by, I think he was a 14 or 15 year old student of a proper, of some Islamic school.

00:54:26.000 He and his mates, they sneaked away to Chechnya to try and fight.

00:54:32.000 And they came back saying it was too cold for them to fight, which at the time everyone thought was hilarious.

00:54:38.000 But they continued on this trajectory of radicalism.

00:54:43.000 And the teenager was demonized. The teenager was held responsible. The teenager is the one who surveilled. It's a teenager who was eventually, I think, sent to prison, but not the grown-ups, not the teachers, the parents, the adults who had groomed these young hearts and minds.

00:55:01.780 And that, I think, in the end, is what is wrong with our societies.

00:55:07.020 It is this hatred, deep, deep-seated hatred of who we are.

00:55:13.860 And part of this atonement is pathological,

00:55:17.360 because it's really taking us to a place of collective suicide.

00:55:21.460 Ayan, we're going to talk about Christianity later,

00:55:25.660 but when you wrote your article, you identified three key threats to the West,

00:55:31.320 which is something I've been talking about as well,

00:55:35.420 great power authoritarianism, Islamism,

00:55:38.900 political radical Islam, and woke ideology.

00:55:42.720 What you're talking about with the self-hatred

00:55:44.740 is the woke ideology.

00:55:45.940 We've talked about Islam

00:55:46.780 and the great power stuff is obvious.

00:55:48.920 You mentioned that we've got to do something

00:55:51.720 while we still have time.

00:55:53.720 Do we still have time?

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00:56:42.260 and now on with the show i think we have more time in america than we do in europe and i say this

00:56:52.580 because number one because of demographics you just mentioned a councillor someone who won an

00:56:58.260 election peacefully through the normal means and became the councillor. And I

00:57:05.300 think we are seeing this all over Europe because of the birth rate crisis,

00:57:10.260 because of the immigration crisis, that if a Muslim party or Muslim parties were

00:57:16.560 formed, official ones, not the Green Party and the Labour Party, but real

00:57:20.340 official ones that call themselves the Muslim Party, I mean there are these

00:57:25.740 scenarios where they could easily win elections. There are already stories in Germany of young

00:57:31.420 people, German, white, non-Muslim kids thinking, you know, feeling left out and converting to Islam.

00:57:39.980 The effort, the da'wah to convert non-Muslims into Islam and to Islamize institutions

00:57:49.660 is relentless and it's strong and it's not met with a counter story or a counter force.

00:57:55.740 So I think that we have more time in America if we wake up now because of the crisis we're witnessing on universities and schools.

00:58:05.960 We're in New York now, and today there is a day of rage.

00:58:11.520 The whole Middle Eastern problems are transported here.

00:58:16.280 And so if Americans were to say through the ballot box, we don't want this, we understand what it is, we don't want this.

00:58:25.740 we can turn this side i think america could turn this side i worry about europe i worry about

00:58:32.780 europe also because of the rise of radical so this interview was about a year ago um i think

00:58:42.620 that she's come out more recently and i think she's even said like in her opinion europe is gone

00:58:47.660 like she like a year ago she was worried but i think more recently she's actually said that um

00:58:53.260 like she has no hope left for Europe apparently. Like it's that bad.

00:58:57.660 Very radical extreme right-wing parties. And when you have a scenario where violent

00:59:06.620 radical white supremacists face off with radical Islamist jihadis, then it's not Europe anymore.

00:59:16.860 In the scene you have, there's a scene of chaos and violence and a splash of Antifa and the radical organized communist organizations and legitimate authority of people in the center who are elected to keep these sorts of things at bay fails to work.

00:59:44.960 and you get a balkanization you get a state of chaos and in a state of chaos if you look at

00:59:51.680 other societies where this has happened somehow the radical islamists come on top

00:59:59.360 hard to disagree with anything you said i suppose the question is uh one of the things that

01:00:06.160 it's just incredible is um for example the uk recently banned hezbud tahrir

01:00:12.000 A group that was banned like in every Muslim country in the world.

01:00:16.160 The UAE had, you know, the foreign minister of the UAE,

01:00:19.920 he had this viral clip talking about warning Europe about terrorism and extremism, whatever.

01:00:26.120 And it very much goes to your point, which is,

01:00:30.240 I suppose the question ultimately is, you've identified this problem that we have,

01:00:34.860 but without going full authoritarian and saying,

01:00:39.880 well some religions are better than others and therefore not allowed or or things along that

01:00:46.500 line yeah how do you deal with the problem where as you say people may not be committing any crimes

01:00:52.800 by indoctrinating people into a world view and then those young people end up committing crimes

01:00:57.360 but but telling them you know believe in this or think this isn't a crime how do we if we were to

01:01:04.560 try and deal with it how do you deal with it without becoming the thing you don't want to become

01:01:08.280 And I think here's where time is so important. The thing you don't want to become is either

01:01:14.200 you fall into this chaos of a cycle of violence where all these extreme groups take over. Main

01:01:22.040 street, that's what you don't want. You don't want them taking over the levers of power. That's the

01:01:28.200 kind of world where I come from. And why also I'm terrified of some of these developments,

01:01:35.000 because if you go to some of these ghettos where informal sharia is applied, that's what it looks

01:01:40.360 like. You have to visit these places to see for yourself some of the transformation that's going

01:01:45.880 on on the streets and neighbourhoods and towns of Europe. So how do you start? Sorry Ayaan,

01:01:53.000 before you get into that, what do you mean by the transformation of some of the towns and cities

01:01:58.280 of Europe? If you travel around Europe, when I was doing this work, this book Prey,

01:02:07.480 and this is back in 2020, I think matters are even more serious now. You see things that you

01:02:14.440 really don't see. You can't just get it from reading about them or watching them in documentaries.

01:02:23.640 you've got to go to these places, see the sights for yourself, hear the sounds,

01:02:28.920 smell the smells. And what you see is, yeah, streets that look like they could be in Algeria or

01:02:40.040 in Somalia or in Lahore in Pakistan. And not, for instance, one of the salient things was

01:02:48.600 not a woman in sight in parts of Paris. And when I obviously couldn't go and talk to

01:02:57.800 some of these people, but the woman who was working with me would ask, where are all the

01:03:02.760 women? They were chased out of the cafe. And this chasing out of women out of a cafe is very

01:03:09.720 un-European. It is, that's a transformation in my view, because when I came in 1992,

01:03:14.920 the opposite was true and so it is for me pretty a bit of a nightmare that Europe is resembling

01:03:23.320 the sorts of streets and places that I left and I was telling them I you know just 1992 I was 22

01:03:28.920 I was covered up and when my Dutch friends asked me uh you know why are you frightened what's wrong

01:03:34.120 with you I would say no you don't go out you know without some kind someone escorting you you don't

01:03:39.000 go out without covering up and they would think I had I was an alien I had come from some other

01:03:45.000 planet and in 1992 that was true I had come from a different planet but now that planet that I had

01:03:52.040 come to in Europe many neighborhoods resemble where I left and that just happened within three decades

01:03:59.400 so you can see when I talk about transformation that it doesn't take that long and so there were

01:04:05.640 really some very serious scholars, one who comes to mind, Walter Lockyer, Bernard Lewis,

01:04:13.080 Nick Eberstadt, the American demographer, they were all telling us, my husband Neil Ferguson,

01:04:19.720 back back in the day, that if this demographic developments continue and we don't do anything

01:04:25.560 about assimilation or there is going to be this flip in 2040, 2050, that's not too far away.

01:04:35.640 see thank you for the shout out johnny hope you're enjoying the live stream

01:04:40.680 europe really has a lot of catching up to the situation in europe is very alarming and it is

01:04:45.960 totally possible to have sharia law established it's now established soft sharia in neighborhoods

01:04:54.040 but established through the ballot box so come back with me to how to preserve a liberal society

01:05:01.720 given this threat without resorting to illiberalism in response?

01:05:08.300 I think one of the things we can do, what's great about open society is open society is always at

01:05:14.180 risk of subversion, all sorts of subversions. But I think one of the strongest

01:05:21.380 characteristics of an open society is its ability to learn from its mistakes and to learn from

01:05:29.500 others and so part of what we need to do is really to go back to the philosophical table if you will

01:05:38.060 and define or figure out a way of defining seditious ideologies radical political islam

01:05:50.620 is an ideology that says as loudly as it possibly can we want to completely abolish the existing

01:05:58.460 order, and we want to replace it with our own order. That is a political theory, that's

01:06:07.560 a political philosophy, it's not a religion as defined in the American Constitution or

01:06:12.700 any of the other European constitutions. And how you deal with that definition, that is

01:06:19.960 think where we ought to go now and this is not something uh we civilians can

01:06:28.040 major charles martell is spinning in his grave um yeah yeah absolutely um i can definitely see

01:06:37.000 that for those of you who don't know um charles char i can't speak charles martell um he lived

01:06:44.360 around 688 what was it to 741 um and he actually gained a victory against uh the muslim invasion

01:06:55.880 of aquitaine at the battle of tours so um he's credited as an important factor in curtailing

01:07:03.000 the spread of islam in western europe here guys let me just pull that up for you so you can see

01:07:07.400 um here you go um i've got to remove the video first so this is charles martel you can look him

01:07:17.720 up and uh yeah so here he gained a victory against an umayyad invasion of aquitaine at the battle of

01:07:24.760 tours and charles is credited as an important factor in curtailing the spread of islam in

01:07:30.920 western europe um along his military endeavors charles has been traditionally credited with an

01:07:36.680 influential role in the development of the frankish system of feudalism so yeah i mean i could

01:07:42.280 definitely um see where that where your comment is coming from about how charles martel is probably

01:07:48.280 spinning in his grave um because yeah 1400 like if charles martel was alive today he would not

01:07:54.520 recognize france he would he would be like everything that i did 1400 years ago um to

01:07:59.000 preserve you know france and french culture was pretty much for nothing yeah and if he was if he

01:08:06.360 he was alive today he would be cancelled by the jihadis for you know islamophobia as well

01:08:11.240 because you know if you if you if you call out their jihad you're islamophobic it's the people

01:08:16.040 we've elected to govern us to get together and do this and say is political islam really

01:08:25.000 a religion the way we define christianity or judaism or hinduism or buddhism because these

01:08:31.960 other religions are not organized and they're not loudly telling us that they're coming to replace

01:08:37.640 us. That's number one. Number two, and I know this debate is ongoing in the UK, the asylum,

01:08:45.960 it's international treaties in general, international treaties, especially asylum and refugee

01:08:52.840 conventions, the convention in 1951 and then European Council of Human Rights. These international

01:09:00.200 laws have to be reviewed and we have to adapt to the reality of today not the reality of 1951

01:09:08.440 or even in the 1960s it's today and the conclusion and if you ask me what is it

01:09:14.600 that we should be doing that we're not doing is to review and remove repeal these international

01:09:21.960 conventions or withdraw from them or come up with something else people were talking about

01:09:27.000 a national human rights code or law that goes back to the basics of human rights

01:09:36.900 and that is individual-based human rights. So I think from the

01:09:45.100 perspective of thinking about these things and the scholarships, just the

01:09:49.440 data gathering, we have all of this. We need just to get out of this passive

01:09:54.620 state that uh that we've adopted well i agree with you on that and you say it's the job of elected

01:10:00.780 politicians sadly and this really is sad a lot of them watch this show and listen to people like you

01:10:06.380 and they're actually looking for answers in places like this believe it or not which is

01:10:10.780 not necessarily a good thing if you think about it but nonetheless and i still don't feel that

01:10:15.900 we've got the answer because you say it's not a religion that we're worried about it's a political

01:10:21.500 ideology but in a liberal society we allow people to express uh political views i mean

01:10:28.780 americans until recently were very proud that they had jews who tolerated nazis marching through

01:10:35.740 particular towns and this was considered an expression of freedom of assembly and freedom

01:10:40.320 of speech so do we want to be a society that bans political views that we don't like

01:10:48.800 that's the question right and i don't disagree with your analysis

01:10:53.220 there's a difference between a political view you don't like versus a political

01:11:02.480 view that wants to completely dismantle you and take over right we have to be very very clear about

01:11:12.260 this um a political view that you don't like could be you know how you want to fund the social

01:11:22.100 welfare system for example right like like you're having conversations on how to um

01:11:30.100 achieve political goals within that particular political system right so um the debate and

01:11:37.780 the conversation you're having is within the framework of that political system so you know

01:11:43.060 me as a politician right i was politician for seven years um i was part of the progressive

01:11:48.180 conservative party right there were other parties there was a liberal party there was the ndp party

01:11:52.980 we have uh differences of political opinion on how to go about achieving a goal now typically

01:12:04.020 know usually the end goal is the same right so so we all want to you know for example let's say um

01:12:11.060 we all want to um eradicate poverty okay so so that's the end goal but you know the conservatives

01:12:19.860 might have a you know one way of of going about it the liberals will have another way the ndp

01:12:25.380 will have another way um you know we can disagree on which which way right we think is best you know

01:12:32.100 me as a as a conservative um leaning you know politician of course you know i think the

01:12:37.300 conservative policies make more sense um but that doesn't mean that you know the other opinions

01:12:43.780 should be banned so um no political discourse and difference of political opinion shouldn't be banned

01:12:51.540 however when you're dealing with like political islam and sharia law that's not a difference of

01:12:57.860 political opinion that's a difference of political system entirely right because here is the current

01:13:05.380 political system right this is the framework of the political system and then here you have sharia

01:13:10.340 law which is an islamic political system and the purpose of sharia law is to completely annihilate

01:13:17.220 and wipe out the existing political system and take over and impose their political system entirely

01:13:25.860 so if you have a political system and this is how you run your society it makes sense to want to

01:13:33.540 preserve that system to preserve that context to preserve that framework and it makes sense to want

01:13:40.100 to ban any other ideology that poses a threat to the pre-established political system this is what

01:13:50.340 you guys need to understand okay sharia law or islamic law or political islam is not a difference

01:13:58.340 of political opinion it's a difference of a political system sharia law cannot exist with

01:14:06.660 any other political system because sharia law islamic law is based on the word of allah right

01:14:13.300 is based on the quran based on the word of their god and that supersedes anything and everything

01:14:19.140 And so that's why when you have these radicals, these Islamists who come to your country and they say we want Sharia law, right, you have to listen to the quiet part.

01:14:30.800 The part that they are not saying is, you know, we want to dismantle your system in its entirety and we want to impose Sharia law on everyone because we believe that, you know, we have a responsibility to Allah to spread our political ideology and everyone must either convert and follow our political ideology or they are our enemy and we must execute the infidels.

01:14:56.920 okay that's in a nutshell the problem that westerners make is when they hear people say 0.95

01:15:02.680 we want sharia law the ignorant westerner right because you know in western society people are 0.85

01:15:08.920 normal people are civil you know in western society there is the understanding of you know 0.98

01:15:14.260 let's let's meet in the middle let's compromise whatever so when an islamist comes to your

01:15:19.440 country and says we want sharia law right the westerner hears this as we want to coexist we

01:15:27.440 want sharia law for ourselves and we want to coexist within your system that's the mistake

01:15:31.980 that westerners make right because they they interpret we want sharia law as we want coexistence

01:15:39.100 no the lesson here for you guys is when they say we want sharia law that means sharia law for

01:15:44.620 everyone and that means getting rid of your political system in its entirety and imposing

01:15:49.260 their political islam on you so do i believe do i think that um different political ideologies

01:15:58.780 should be banned 100 absolutely if that political ideology poses a threat to the pre-existing

01:16:06.620 political ideology if that political ideology is meant to dismantle and take over and supersede

01:16:13.340 100 you should ban that political ideology because if you don't you're basically committing

01:16:21.100 civilizational suicide right you're you're allowing the enemy in and that enemy is going

01:16:27.180 to eventually take over that's the difference guys you see that so so um you know wanting

01:16:35.260 sharia law is not a political opinion okay it's it's a different political ideology that wants to

01:16:42.220 take over a differing political opinion again would be like you know the conservatives and

01:16:48.140 the liberals have a different political opinion on how to eradicate poverty right and so the

01:16:55.260 difference of political opinions are within the political framework the pre-existing political

01:17:00.300 framework and they're not going after the political framework like no one's going out to like

01:17:05.340 eradicate the constitution or you know or you know whatever right that's the difference guys

01:17:12.540 you have to you have to understand that so no you know political opinions should not be banned not

01:17:19.020 at all 100 no matter how much you disagree with it but someone who wants to impose sharia law

01:17:24.380 that's not a political opinion guys that's not that is um a completely different political ideology

01:17:30.460 that wants to destabilize eradicate and take over

01:17:37.740 i'm just trying to think how do we deal with the threat without allowing it to change who we are

01:17:44.540 in in a way that means that we're no longer defending a liberal society because we're

01:17:47.900 not liberal anymore we're not liberal anymore no i think what we are seeing is a shrinking

01:17:53.340 of the options we have so 20 years ago when we were saying 30 years ago 20 years ago when we

01:17:58.860 were saying look we are a liberal society we have these laws we we should be able to our society

01:18:05.340 should be able to withstand these kinds of shocks that was one thing but the again rational thing

01:18:14.540 to do was to say we're not going to change our laws and our structures and our attitudes but we

01:18:22.220 are did i just i did i not just say that that would have been the rational thing to do right

01:18:27.740 going to help them change and that hasn't happened and so now we've pushed ourselves into a corner

01:18:35.420 where we are either going to become we will have to get used to living under sharia law

01:18:43.100 and as many by the way people native people in europe and increasingly in america who haven't

01:18:51.500 asked for it are forced to live with it because of the reckless immigration

01:18:55.940 policies of our the people we elected to govern us the majorities we elected to

01:19:02.480 govern us and so the options we have are shrinking and I think we are now in a

01:19:08.000 place where we have to say it's okay for people to hold whatever views they wish

01:19:14.540 to hold but the licensing and we've talked about the license to open schools

01:19:23.840 the license to open masks the license and the charity status is the money that

01:19:29.000 these people get who have is clearly seditious and now we we understand we

01:19:34.940 know what we're talking about now I think that could be stopped I think we

01:19:38.660 could deport if they are not citizens we could depart we could pass laws to stop this

01:19:48.660 like so she's she's talking about all of these like you know religious cultural schools or

01:19:52.980 whatever that are opening um and you know indoctrinating young people in sharia law

01:19:58.260 she's saying we should get rid of that we should not have that in america right like stop the

01:20:04.020 licensing shut down the schools you know deport anyone who's not a citizen get them out of here

01:20:08.900 do not allow sharia law to grow in your societies because that will lead to destabilization right

01:20:17.060 because if they are not here to um change or assimilate they are here to impose and you know

01:20:26.660 we're now seeing that i said the characteristic the strongest characteristic of an open society

01:20:32.580 is the ability to learn from our mistakes and from others. There are other countries, you mentioned

01:20:37.940 the UAE, you did not mention Saudi Arabia. Singapore is another country. There are a number

01:20:46.980 of countries who are confronted, these Saudi Arabian, UAE, Muslim countries, who are confronted

01:20:54.100 with this particular flavor of sedition. Pay attention to this part, right? So I've talked

01:21:00.980 about this as well before right um a lot of this this radicalization that you're seeing 0.99

01:21:07.220 okay it's coming from the muslim brotherhood the muslim brotherhood is a terrorist organization 0.72

01:21:11.700 uh basically they want to establish a global islamic caliphate the muslim brotherhood is

01:21:16.500 behind all the pro-hamas pro-palestine movements the muslim brotherhood is a big reason for why

01:21:23.220 all these young americans have been indoctrinated into thinking that islamic terrorists are freedom

01:21:27.780 fighters um she just mentioned saudi arabia and the uae okay saudi arabian uae um are are of course

01:21:36.580 like muslim countries right i mean saudi arabia is the birthplace of um islam and even saudi arabia

01:21:45.860 is is curtailing these radical ideologies right because even saudi arabia recognizes

01:21:53.300 that sharia law poses a threat to to their system and that's a muslim country right like

01:22:01.300 saudi arabia it's not exactly the bastion of human rights right like other religions

01:22:05.780 um like there's no religious freedom in saudi arabia but even even even the saudi arabian

01:22:10.500 muslims the shakes recognize that radical islam what we're seeing spread in north america and in

01:22:18.740 europe is a threat right the muslim brotherhood is classified as a terrorist organization in 0.97

01:22:25.220 saudi arabia the muslim brotherhood is is a terrorist organization in the uae uae another 0.88

01:22:33.300 muslim country governed by islamic law right but but not necessarily sharia law because they've

01:22:40.580 modernized they've reformed right and and the uae also bans um the the the radicals right so all

01:22:50.900 these like radical schools and mosques and whatever that are popping up in north america

01:22:56.420 and in europe they're banned in the uae and saudi arabia and other muslim countries in the middle

01:23:03.460 east right because those countries recognize the difference and they recognize the inherent threat

01:23:10.580 that, you know, Sharia law poses on the stabilization, on the stability of their countries.

01:23:18.380 So pay attention to this part because this is important.

01:23:21.740 UAE, you did not mention Saudi Arabia, you know, Singapore is another country.

01:23:29.980 There are a number of countries who are confronted, these Saudi Arabian, UAE are Muslim countries,

01:23:36.860 who are confronted with this particular flavor of sedition and they've been warning us for years and

01:23:44.540 years saying you guys are committing suicide the way you deal with this problem is is wrong and i

01:23:53.340 remember that's the video that i showed you earlier guys the video from from the shape um

01:23:59.020 the foreign affairs minister of the uae right let me play that for you again this is the video

01:24:04.140 right this this is one of the videos one of the examples that ayin is referring to this is from

01:24:08.620 2017 the foreign affairs minister of the uae of sheikh abdullah bin zayed and uh and let me

01:24:16.940 say this in english so you can understand what i'm saying i have translation no i know you

01:24:22.380 have translation but i'm i just want to make sure you get it right there will come a day

01:24:30.060 that we will see far more radical extremist and terrorists coming out of Europe because of lack

01:24:39.540 of decision making, trying to be politically correct, or assuming that they know the Middle

01:24:50.520 East and they know Islam and they know the others far better than we do. And I'm sorry,

01:24:56.820 but that's pure ignorance there you go so there's the foreign affairs minister of the united arab

01:25:05.540 emirates a muslim man and in 2017 he was warning europe about the threat of radical islam and how

01:25:12.900 it's going to be a bigger problem in in western societies because uh westerners are not going to

01:25:19.220 be able to uh properly deal with it because they don't understand it and they're worried about you

01:25:23.540 know political correctness and you know islamophobia and all that nonsense right so that's

01:25:27.700 what um ayin is referring to when she says that these leaders have been warning it's time that

01:25:33.220 we now start to heed what so this is the warning we are confronted with this particular flavor of

01:25:41.220 sedition and they've been warning us for years and years saying you guys are committing suicide the

01:25:49.220 The way you deal with this problem is wrong.

01:25:52.500 And I think it's time that we now start to heed what we've been told.

01:25:58.560 Now that is on the elite level, on the mass level.

01:26:03.040 I think you will just have to go back to what do we have that can inoculate young hearts

01:26:17.460 and minds against the message that the radical Islamists are spreading.

01:26:24.120 We have a very beautiful old counter-message, and it's called Christianity.

01:26:31.460 And the Christian message for those who are seeking spirituality, who are seeking a meaning

01:26:37.400 and a purpose in life, and who end up in the wrong hands, and they end up with the wrong

01:26:42.940 lot, whether they are Islamists or the woke. I think the churches, the institutionalized,

01:26:50.540 established churches, have a better, more effective and more home-made. It's very much

01:27:01.420 in sync with their own identities. I think on that level there is plenty of alternatives.

01:27:12.860 just that there is no one pushing it. If you go back to Shamima Begum, the only people who are

01:27:20.220 trying to talk to Shamima Begum fill her head with her identity and answer her questions,

01:27:31.580 what is it to be a good person? How can I help society? Is there something bigger than myself

01:27:37.100 that I can sacrifice my life to? The people who are giving these answers are the Islamists,

01:27:41.900 it's the woke um it's just the wrong lot um what about you know good all the boring

01:27:51.580 christianity if you want to put it that way love thy neighbor you know kind of

01:27:59.020 there is an existing story i know you've spoken to jordan peterson and others

01:28:03.420 but the west has a lovely story to tell it's a story of life um it's a story that celebrates

01:28:09.500 life it's a story that celebrates uh merit that celebrates art that celebrates equality that

01:28:16.780 celebrates and protects women it's a beautiful story to tell if we want to tell it let me

01:28:23.180 recommend a product that we use all day every day here at trigonometry towers look going online

01:28:29.820 without expressvpn is like using your

01:28:39.500 sensitive data it's super so going on okay dot com slash trigger and get an extra three months

01:28:47.660 free now back to the show ian do you think we're looking back because i was i think constant was

01:28:57.160 as well we love the whole new atheist movement we don't need god we have logic science and

01:29:02.820 rationality what do we need god for god's something that the peasants used to used to do in the early

01:29:07.880 20th and the 19th century and all the other ones yeah you think looking back on it now that was a

01:29:13.160 grave error of judgment i've come out to say it was a grave error of judgment and in fact i remember

01:29:19.720 feeling um just massive rage when the american association of atheists took away richard dawkins

01:29:29.560 um they had honored him with a price and they took away the price because he wasn't giving in

01:29:36.120 to the woke demands. And so atheism went woke. The American Association, that is the adoption

01:29:45.640 of a new nihilistic religion. And I know we talked a lot about humanism, but again, humanism,

01:29:55.160 number one, is born out of Christianity. It is Christianity saying, I don't need to believe in

01:30:01.480 god and i don't need to read the bible because every kind of moral good that you've extracted

01:30:07.160 out of those religious teachings i can now have it in a secular way that's great but you haven't

01:30:14.440 established anything close to an institution that is competitive when it comes to what radical islam

01:30:27.080 and the other organized religions, whether young or old, are doing. And so I think right now the

01:30:34.440 ball is in their courts, the humanist courts, to say well then get up and get going. But as

01:30:42.280 they start going, maybe we should use the existing organizations that we have. I think we touched on

01:30:53.400 Jonathan Haidt. I focus on radical Islam and its spread and the threats that it poses.

01:31:03.480 But another big threat to our society is what is happening to the youth, this explosion in anxiety,

01:31:11.080 depression, mental health, illnesses, addictions, overdose on fentanyl and other drugs.

01:31:19.000 And I think Jonathan Haidt made the remark that he sees this particularly, and he was talking about young girls who are susceptible to suicidal ideation, et cetera, and he said he sees this problem much stronger within liberal secular households and much less so in religious households.

01:31:45.180 I have seen this with the radical. When you look at radical individuals that are attracted to radical Islam, the solid Muslim household, if you go in a Muslim household and the Koran is already familiar to you, the teachings are already familiar to you, you already know the distinction between political and non-political Islam.

01:32:08.600 those ones tend not to go with political Islam.

01:32:17.400 And so there is something in general about religion

01:32:21.580 filling the spiritual needs and the need for meaning in human life,

01:32:28.600 whether that religion is Judaism or Christianity or Islam or Buddhism or something else.

01:32:34.080 And so I think it was wrong of the secular West to throw out Christianity as quickly and as completely as we did it.

01:32:50.020 It's also as well, you know, you talk about, you know, of course, spirituality is important and so on and so forth.

01:32:56.280 science isn't going to keep you warm at night and particularly when you're faced with

01:33:01.560 you know things like failing health you know failing health of loved ones etc etc

01:33:06.760 but something else that religion gives you is a sense of community yes i don't i you know i don't

01:33:13.720 find it a coincidence that you know muslims call each other brother and sister and so much you

01:33:18.120 know there's a real comfort to that we need community and that's something the new atheists

01:33:23.720 I don't think factored in, really.

01:33:31.400 The good depiction, I think, I would give of the new atheists

01:33:35.360 was a whole number of new atheists I met who had read Infidel

01:33:40.640 and would come to me and say,

01:33:43.000 I come from a household or I come from a community

01:33:45.620 where I was subjected to religious intolerance,

01:33:48.840 almost as extreme or just as extreme as the one that you went through.

01:33:52.300 And so in reacting against that, it was out with religion and in with now this new community of atheists.

01:34:02.420 But as a new community of atheists, I think we assumed quite a lot.

01:34:08.220 I think we assumed that simply by leaving behind religious intolerance, you will come out and you will shed superstition.

01:34:17.300 you will appreciate reason and humanism and, you know, you'll flourish. There's really no need for,

01:34:28.020 there's no need for the establishment of a community or an institution or it is all there.

01:34:34.820 You will know to find it because you're now guided by reason. And I think we failed to see

01:34:41.060 that that's not how things work. And for a lot of those people who had left their intolerant

01:34:48.980 religious backgrounds, they fell into a void, into loneliness, into the lack of community.

01:35:01.540 And the people who came from agnostic, atheist or non-religious backgrounds are also finding

01:35:09.300 themselves in modern times falling into the same you know lack of a sense of community lack of a

01:35:15.540 sense of purpose and seeking and and getting lost and so i think that with my friends who are still

01:35:25.940 atheist and who still think that atheism is reason reason can't protect us from all of these threats

01:35:39.300 I think we simply, I underestimated, and maybe even that's the wrong way of saying it, I simply didn't see it.

01:35:51.300 I just, I only saw the negative, bad side of religion.

01:35:58.300 And I also made the mistake of going along with the declaration that all religions are the same.

01:36:04.300 And in fact, that's absolutely untrue.

01:36:08.900 All religions are not the same.

01:36:11.200 There are different religions that have gone through different developments.

01:36:15.140 And some religions are quite superior to others.

01:36:18.300 A religion that tells you that it's all about death.

01:36:21.840 All you have to do is sacrifice yourself for the sake of Allah.

01:36:25.220 And in the end, what awaits you is paradise.

01:36:28.360 I mean, she makes a really good point there.

01:36:31.520 Amir, thank you for the super sticker.

01:36:32.800 Appreciate that.

01:36:33.540 thank you for supporting the channel um yeah i am makes a very good point there about um how

01:36:38.980 like like i don't want to get too much into the religious side um but yeah like everything

01:36:46.920 everything about islam is basically like you know death and and martyrdom and glorifying death and

01:36:53.740 glorifying martyrdom right like even even the whole concept of of jihad and um murdering infidels 0.63

01:37:00.560 murdering infidels in order to get into heaven and get your 72 virgins right i mean it's it's

01:37:07.220 all connected the the violence right part of the reason the radical islamic part of the reason 0.79

01:37:12.800 there's even a radical element within islam is because of those who literally take the the book

01:37:20.000 by the word right um and they believe that one of the fastest and easiest ways to get into heaven

01:37:28.260 is to conquer non-islamic lands and murder infidels while yelling aloha akbar it's just a fact like 0.52

01:37:35.380 it's it's it's fact we see it everywhere i mean you saw it on october 7 when hamas terrorists and 0.94

01:37:42.500 even palestinian um civilians right palestinian civilians were um murdering people and yelling 0.82

01:37:48.180 aloha akbar um you're seeing it in nigeria with with the you know muslims genociding the christians 0.97

01:37:54.020 and yelling Allahu Akbar. You're seeing it in Sudan. You saw it with ISIS militants 0.96

01:37:58.580 murdering Yazidis in Iraq. It's what they do. It's what they do.

01:38:05.380 In its extreme form, that religion is a cult of death because you just have to look forward to 0.56

01:38:11.380 dying because the reward is going to come after you die. That's a very, very different religion

01:38:16.580 that has in its foundations that the founder of the religion died so that you can live

01:38:21.860 and that your sins are forgiven. And so the story of rebirth and the story of

01:38:27.440 forgiveness and the story of love and the story of love thy neighbour, it's a very

01:38:30.860 radically different story from the story of Islam. And so it is, I think it

01:38:38.900 was a bit juvenile to promote the idea that, you know, all religions are bad, 0.99

01:38:45.860 all religions are stupid, and also to negate perhaps the good side religion has. 0.99

01:38:50.580 so she she's talking here about um her conversion from uh islam to christianity right so she left 1.00

01:38:58.340 islam because of the you know violent murderous element of it i guess you know she didn't like

01:39:02.980 that um and then she was an atheist for a long time because because because of her experience

01:39:08.200 with islam she just thought all religions are bad um i'm gonna go back and i want to replay that

01:39:14.860 because that's really important guys um she thought that all religions were bad uh because

01:39:20.080 her experience with islam that's actually something that iranians can certainly relate to um

01:39:28.240 less than 30 percent of iranians today are are muslim i would say maybe even less than 20 percent

01:39:33.760 um but we do know that uh it's at least uh less than 30 percent and that's because a study

01:39:39.760 an independent study was done five years ago almost six years ago now in 2020 um where they

01:39:45.680 serve they surveyed iranians inside of um occupied iran and um three out of ten iranians identified

01:39:54.080 as muslim um so there's a reason for that guys there's a reason for that um the islamic dictatorship

01:40:03.200 um occupying iran and sharia law um has turned off iranians and many of them have left the vast

01:40:11.520 majority and um many have you know many are agnostic right agnostic or atheist and it's very

01:40:21.760 you know the reason that they are agnostic or atheist is exactly what ayin is talking about

01:40:26.720 here is about because um everything that iranians um experienced under the islamic republic in the

01:40:36.560 name of islam and religion is just so horrible right and again like the islamic republic is a

01:40:42.560 it's a culture of death it's a culture of martyrdom right like they impose that um 0.97

01:40:47.520 death cult ideology on iranians and iranians want absolutely nothing to do with it and so

01:40:53.520 because because their experience has mainly been um this you know seventh century sharia law

01:41:01.040 version of islam um not only have many left but many have said we want absolutely nothing to do

01:41:07.440 with any sort of religion whatsoever because it's only ever been a negative experience right um and

01:41:15.520 i'm you know let me i'll make a note of this you know i'm happy to talk about this and expand on

01:41:19.280 this more in um in another episode but but this is this is why many iranians are just completely

01:41:26.480 agnostic or you know atheist because they're just so sick and tired of of islam and because they

01:41:34.720 don't have any experience with any other religions they just assume you know all religions are bad

01:41:41.040 um there is however so so this was how i am started out right so when she left islam she

01:41:47.200 was like i just don't want anything to do with religion you know i'm sick of it it's all bad

01:41:51.200 there's nothing but negatives in there um but then eventually when she found out about christianity

01:41:57.520 and what christianity stands for she realized okay like this this is not like islam at all

01:42:03.280 you know in islam they glorify death and martyrdom whereas in christianity it's about celebrating

01:42:09.280 life and you know jesus died so you could live which again completely different concept and

01:42:14.720 ideology um from islam and so she's basically sharing her journey from from islam into uh you

01:42:23.360 know converting to to christianity eventually and um guys what's really interesting is that right now

01:42:29.920 christianity is the fastest growing religion in occupied iran yeah we don't know the full numbers

01:42:38.400 because um the crime for apostasy is death and uh the islamic republic will execute um anyone

01:42:46.880 who converts to christianity so you know many many christian iranian christians have to practice um

01:42:54.320 in in secret um you know there there is a very small minority of christians who who practice

01:43:00.960 openly but this is where context is important guys so you're going to see a lot of like these

01:43:06.240 islamists right they'll be like oh there's christians in iran and you know they're they're

01:43:10.400 allowed to practice right but they just throw out that fact without any context so here's

01:43:15.840 here's the context um the background info you need to understand christianity and occupied iran um

01:43:24.160 the the you know your your religion is pretty much on your passport i think or it's on something

01:43:28.880 right like um the the islamic regime knows like who's muslim who's christian who's jewish all of

01:43:33.840 that um they have that that data and so if you were a christian prior to the islamic republic

01:43:43.040 taking over in 1979 then you know you're allowed to remain christian

01:43:48.480 of course they want people to convert but you know it's it's complicated um

01:43:55.120 um those christians are still heavily under supervision right um and many of them are

01:44:03.700 basically used as token christians right so these christians you you will see them like um having a

01:44:11.020 picture of the ayatollah in their church or wherever the case might be because um they're

01:44:18.080 forced to do it because if they if they don't then they could be jailed um and you know

01:44:26.480 be accused of being a spy and executed because again it's an islamic dictatorship right and

01:44:31.120 um christians and jews and you know other minorities the bahai bahai have no rights

01:44:36.400 whatsoever by the way bahai are heavily persecuted um they they could be you know executed anytime

01:44:43.200 for any reason because according to sharia law they're second class citizens and don't have the

01:44:47.600 same rights um the other thing that people don't point out uh you know these islamists when they

01:44:52.480 talk about oh there's christians there's christians in iran they practice openly and freely

01:44:58.080 they don't talk about the fact that since 1979 um christians are not allowed to repair their churches

01:45:06.480 okay so since since the islamic republic took over in 1979

01:45:11.280 not a single new church has been built in occupied iran many churches have been forced to be shut

01:45:19.120 down due to disrepair why are they in disrepair because the islamic republic does not allow

01:45:26.880 christians to repair churches why don't they allow christians to repair churches because the hope is

01:45:32.960 that eventually there's going to be no more churches left in iran right so that's how they're

01:45:38.240 going about um persecuting christians in occupied iran those are for the people who were christian

01:45:46.800 prior to 1979 right and and many of those um many of those christians are in fact armenians why

01:45:54.800 because um in the early 1900 or you know around the time of the armenian genocide when the turks

01:46:02.480 were genociding the armenians many armenians actually escaped to iran um and and found

01:46:10.240 refuge in iran right because again prior to 1979 um iran was a free secular country and everyone

01:46:20.160 lived uh equally and all religions were equal no one was persecuted so you know jews christians

01:46:27.600 Muslims, whatever. Everyone lived, you know, equally. It was only when the Islamic Republic

01:46:32.560 took over in 1979, and then when they imposed Sharia law, that it turned into the seventh

01:46:38.400 century Islamic hellhole that it is. And a lot of these Islamists also like to claim that Iran

01:46:44.160 has the biggest, you know, largest population of Jews in the Middle East outside of Israel. Well,

01:46:48.960 first of all, that's not something to brag about, because it's only 10,000 Jews,

01:46:52.240 okay and many other countries in the middle east have zero jews why do they have zero jews because

01:46:58.800 uh jews were heavily persecuted and had to escape um prior to 1979 there was over a hundred thousand

01:47:05.120 jews living in iran so um aside from israel the other safe country for for jewish people was iran

01:47:14.800 over a hundred thousand jews lived freely in iran without persecution when the islamic republic

01:47:19.920 took over they started persecuting the jews executing the jews um they accused many of them

01:47:24.320 of being massad agents or spies for israel you know whatever other like you know the same jihadi

01:47:28.800 nonsense that they they put out today right um and so many many jews iranian jews actually had to

01:47:34.640 escape um and so now there's i think less than 10 000 um jews living in in occupied iran so

01:47:43.120 the islamic republic you know if you want to understand sharia law just look at the islamic

01:47:48.960 Republic. And it is a culture of death. It is a culture of martyrdom. All they focus on is death 0.95

01:47:56.180 and destruction. And, you know, everything is heavily restricted, right? Because it is this

01:48:02.700 cult mindset. And just like any other cult, the reward is in the afterlife, right? Like,

01:48:10.580 think about all those, like, death cults where it's like, okay, it's, you know, the end of the

01:48:16.160 world is coming I think it was like one for the year 2000 you know all these like various cults

01:48:20.540 that just uh you know go on and on and on for different reasons um it's the same thing it's

01:48:24.820 the same thing with like this extremist Islam where it's all about um you know you you sacrifice

01:48:31.700 your life now for for a reward in the afterlife and if you look at um like Muhammad's description

01:48:37.660 of heaven right the description of heaven in um the Quran is is kind of weird um you know the

01:48:45.740 rivers flow with wine, you know, you can sleep with whoever you want. There's like, you know,

01:48:51.680 naked virgins walking around, right? Like, that's a very weird, misogynistic sort of heaven. 0.98

01:49:01.320 And basically, it's in heaven, you can do everything that you're not supposed to do

01:49:07.160 on earth. So it's very weird, right? But anyway, so that's what I am talking about. When she's

01:49:13.200 talking about um this culture of death right and then so she thought all religion was bad because

01:49:19.620 she thought that all religion just focuses on death and martyrdom and destruction and you know

01:49:24.680 killing the infidels and you know women being second class citizens and whatever but then when

01:49:29.660 she learned about Christianity she converted and so that's kind of what's happening in Iran as well 0.51

01:49:35.680 where less than 30 percent of Iranians are are Muslim many are agnostic or atheist however there

01:49:42.280 is a growing movement of people converting to christianity and and secondly zoroastrianism as

01:49:48.120 well so those are the two fastest growing religions but it all has to be done secretly

01:49:52.840 because the crime for apostasy is death and that's you know that's another indicator that's another

01:50:00.920 clue to you guys that um we're dealing with a cult right because i don't know of any other religion

01:50:07.480 today okay i don't know of any other like modern day religion where the crime for leaving your

01:50:16.980 faith is not just death but but it's acted upon right like literally people in iran are executed

01:50:26.820 every day for the crime of you know corruption against allah

01:50:31.700 it is a very violent like like in its extreme form like what's happening in occupied iran

01:50:39.380 um it is an extreme extreme um cult-like radical ideology so let's go back i want to i want to

01:50:47.820 listen to this again because she's she's talking about her journey from islam to christianity

01:50:54.400 and her journey resonates with me because because this is the exact same thing that i'm hearing

01:51:02.100 from many iranians right who who have um left islam and are now you know either agnostic or

01:51:10.960 atheist and and you know some have converted as well right so when i tell you when i show you

01:51:15.920 that statistic that less than 30 percent of iranians are are muslim it's because of this

01:51:20.920 like like she's had the exact same experience as have um many others um cable thank you for

01:51:29.400 speaking over this i dream of seeing an iran free of oppression thank you so much cable i appreciate

01:51:34.280 that yes you know we we are fighting for um a free iran and i can't wait until iran is free because

01:51:40.840 once again we're going to open our doors to the world and we're going to have the biggest party

01:51:45.160 and all you guys should come and and party with us in a free um and secular iran okay let's go

01:51:52.120 back i want to listen to this part again here of death because you just here we go

01:51:59.000 and maybe even that's a wrong way of saying i was and seeking and and the

01:52:06.440 the intolerant religious background community of atheists, community of atheists, but as

01:52:14.840 a new community of atheists, I think we assumed quite a lot. I think we assumed that simply

01:52:22.020 by leaving behind religious intolerance, you will come out and you will shed superstition,

01:52:29.200 will appreciate reason and humanism and you'll flourish. There's really no need for the establishment

01:52:41.600 of a community or an institution. It is all there. You will know to find it because you're now guided

01:52:49.760 by reason. And I think we failed to see that that's not how things work. And for a lot of

01:52:56.160 those people who had left their intolerant religious backgrounds, they fell into a void,

01:53:05.680 into loneliness, into the lack of community. And the people who came from agnostic, atheist,

01:53:18.480 or non-religious backgrounds are also finding themselves, in modern times, falling into the

01:53:23.760 same, you know, lack of a sense of community, lack of a sense of purpose and seeking and getting lost.

01:53:31.840 And so I think that with my friends who are still atheists and who still think that

01:53:43.280 atheism is reason, reason can't protect us from all of these threats,

01:53:50.640 i think we simply i underestimated

01:53:56.720 and maybe even that's the wrong way of saying i simply didn't see it i just i only saw

01:54:04.240 the negative um bad side of religion and i also made the mistake of going along with

01:54:13.240 the declaration that all religions are the same right so the you know her experience

01:54:20.040 of just just knowing the negative side of religion that's the exact same

01:54:24.660 experience that 80 million Iranians have have had under the Islamic

01:54:29.300 dictatorship for the last 47 years and in fact it is that's absolutely untruth

01:54:34.540 it is all religions are not the same there are different religions that have

01:54:39.660 gone through different developments and some religions are quite superior to

01:54:43.560 others a religion that tells you that it's all about death all you have to do

01:54:49.400 sacrifice yourself for the sake of Allah, and in the end what awaits you is paradise.

01:54:55.080 In its extreme form, that religion is a cult of death because you just have to look forward to

01:55:01.160 dying because the reward is going to come after you die. That's a very, very different religion

01:55:06.360 that has in its foundations that the founder of the religion died so that you can live and that

01:55:12.680 your sins are forgiven. So the story of rebirth and the story of forgiveness and the story of love

01:55:18.520 and story of love thy neighbor. It's a very radically different story from the story of

01:55:25.960 Islam. And so it is, I think it was a bit juvenile to promote the idea that, you know, all religions

01:55:35.240 are bad, all religions are stupid, and also to negate perhaps the good side. Religion has some 0.99

01:55:40.680 good things uh some good functions if you will and that's what we're now witnessing once in in

01:55:49.720 the west more than anywhere else when you when you throw that out i just spent about three weeks on

01:55:56.200 tour with jordan peterson as you mentioned uh hashing out some of these issues and one of the

01:56:02.600 he brought me over to disagree with him and one of the things that i kept asking him and you know

01:56:07.080 know, Jordan, he answers in 20-minute paragraphs that don't necessarily address the central

01:56:11.880 Koya question. But one of the things I kept asking him in different ways at different

01:56:16.140 points is, do you believe in God? And we had long back and forth about it. Reading your

01:56:20.980 article about becoming a Christian, I found it very interesting because you said many

01:56:26.060 of the things you've said today. I think your analysis is spot on in terms of a vacuum of

01:56:32.480 belief creates alternative religions like wokeness, but also creates the space for other

01:56:38.140 more forceful religions that have a clear idea of what they're about to come in.

01:56:45.700 What you didn't say in your article is that you believe in God. Do you?

01:56:49.100 I do believe in God, yes. And I said this to Richard Dawkins the other night in the

01:56:56.320 dissident dialogues, I choose to believe in God. I've been, I found myself in that place of

01:57:04.360 complete disconnection and despair and struggled with years and years of depression and tried to

01:57:12.100 do it, you know, the way a good old atheist would do it by going to science and seeing

01:57:17.080 psychiatrists and psychologists. And I learned a lot from them. I learned a lot about the human

01:57:21.900 brain, the human mind, I learned a lot about addiction and all the rest of it, but if you

01:57:26.540 ask me now that I've come out of this depression, what exactly happened? I think it was when I

01:57:34.540 surrendered to the idea that yes, this is I am undergoing or going through a spiritual,

01:57:42.380 as one of the therapists put it, spiritual bankruptcy. And so I fell to my knees and prayed

01:57:48.700 and it is only then i i felt this sense that something was lifting and something was lifting

01:57:55.580 because i was feeling connected to something much more powerful than myself and i don't know how to

01:58:00.300 describe that and i followed that up with wanting more and the choice of of becoming a christian

01:58:13.820 choosing Christianity. Of course, I grew up with Islam, so I know what that holds. And looking at

01:58:20.060 the other, you know, far Eastern religions, I see some of the wisdoms there, but perhaps too far

01:58:25.900 away from me, but feel very much at home with Christianity and with the legacy of Christianity.

01:58:36.380 And so I'm not ashamed or embarrassed about it, but I do want to emphasize that's a personal

01:58:43.820 very intimate, if you will, decision. And it's not something that I want to impose

01:58:54.340 on others. But I'll say, if I see, let me rephrase it. In the past I would have

01:59:07.180 discussions with people who would talk about the advantages of religion and I

01:59:11.220 I would just laugh at them and go along with people who were saying,

01:59:14.780 ah, they're too weak, too frightened in the dark, too non-spick, that kind of thing.

01:59:19.300 And now I think from my experience, I think there's a great deal of wisdom in there,

01:59:24.360 and that brings me back to a sense of humility.

01:59:29.400 But I am not standing on the streets with the Bible proclaiming the gospel.

01:59:37.820 sorry i just noticed i think i forgot to share this one um working today but keep fighting

01:59:45.280 thank you i i appreciate that and i hope you have a good day at work happy friday

01:59:50.040 oh good bye she would look great in one of those sandwich boards with a megaphone and a bell

01:59:56.180 yeah yeah yeah and i think for public figures to come out

02:00:07.600 and admit doubts and admit the things that they struggle with I think that's

02:00:14.080 a form of moral leadership that we were perhaps some of us were too embarrassed

02:00:19.960 to come out and and share and so there is there is something in I didn't you

02:00:29.860 know I didn't need any persuasion to say if you're a young person and you're

02:00:33.940 struggling with the same things you feel it's it's all meaningless it's okay for you to have

02:00:40.900 these feelings and it's okay for you there is a way out this there's a light somewhere there

02:00:45.620 this is what worked for me i don't know if it will work for you but this is what worked for me

02:00:49.940 i think that is again a very western civilization thing instead of punishing people

02:00:56.980 for their suffering because it's a deviant. I think the compassionate thing to do is to say

02:01:07.120 how can we, what can we help, what can we do together to help you get better.

02:01:14.240 Well one of the things that I'm really grateful for is I think in the, one of the benefits of

02:01:19.580 new technology is the ability to have discussions like this and I think older media like television

02:01:26.740 was much more about sharing certainties.

02:01:30.940 You have two people, five minutes each or three minutes each

02:01:34.380 or 20 seconds each, and you deliver your certainty about this.

02:01:38.120 You know, there is no, there is.

02:01:40.140 In these conversations, we have the ability, as you say,

02:01:42.980 to actually talk about what it is that you're thinking,

02:01:47.520 why you're thinking it, where you're unsure,

02:01:50.220 what journey you're on, because that's actually, I think,

02:01:53.280 where most people are.

02:01:54.260 I don't think most people live their lives

02:01:55.940 through the prism of 20-second sound bites

02:01:58.280 about their certainty about something.

02:02:01.000 Most people are in the place of inquiry

02:02:03.060 and openness to ideas, I think.

02:02:06.960 And so it's interesting to me.

02:02:08.880 I suppose the question is,

02:02:11.160 and again, this is something I ask Jordan repeatedly,

02:02:13.420 is can you put the toothpaste back in the tube?

02:02:16.700 You know, I call my generation the children of Dawkins.

02:02:20.540 How do, you know,

02:02:22.100 but I also sense that a lot of people our age

02:02:25.520 and younger too are in the inquiry of what is meaning,

02:02:30.240 what is purpose, how do we connect to others.

02:02:33.860 And like you say, it's unavoidably obvious and painfully obvious

02:02:38.120 that that vacuum that new atheists were so looking forward to

02:02:43.480 opens up the space for new things to come in

02:02:46.340 that are not even going to be as good as what we had before. 0.84

02:02:49.100 I mean, wokeness to me is an awful religion. 0.72

02:02:51.340 I mean, one of the worst in many ways.

02:02:52.820 And then also in the geopolitical environment that we operate in and the global environment culturally, we have challenges, we have competitors and we have to rediscover a strength and confidence in the values of our civilization or we will go the way of every civilization that has lost its way in the past.

02:03:13.420 Yeah. So I would say if you're a young person and you want to know a great deal about biology, read Dawkins and listen to Richard. He has a great deal of knowledge and wisdom to impart there. If you want to understand.

02:03:32.360 I will I just want to say so I will be playing some of Richard Dawkins interviews in future

02:03:40.640 live streams so make sure that you are subscribed to my channel and you have your notifications on

02:03:45.980 because you do not want to miss those the roots of our civilization and how we got here and the

02:03:54.920 meaning, you know, putting the toothpaste back in the tube, listen to Tom Holland.

02:04:07.240 And you see, both men, very much Western, in fact, both of them British,

02:04:14.680 have this background in scholarship and taking their scholarships very, very, very seriously.

02:04:26.240 And these are the two individuals, but I think they represent a whole world of,

02:04:32.540 a whole civilization that managed to dominate the world and to lead the world

02:04:48.220 because it allows for that.

02:04:52.600 It allows for these different inquiries and perspectives and these conversations.

02:04:58.760 And I think what you were talking about earlier, about the little bit of certainty, you come in and you say you're a piece of certainty, and then you turn it into a contest with winners and losers.

02:05:10.040 I think that created a sort of polarization of ideas.

02:05:17.680 If you're pro Dawkins, you can't be pro Tom Holland, which is, of course, nonsense.

02:05:22.460 And so I think part of it is to bring young people back into the realm of, for me, actually, the realm of reason and spirituality, where they can coexist faith and reason, where you say, if you're seeking development and evolution and growth on this plane, you go to this end of the library.

02:05:47.800 and if you're seeking it on this end you've got that end of the library but the library is full

02:05:52.820 of that western library is full of all of this knowledge and wisdom and I think we've lost a bit

02:05:58.160 of that. Ayaan thank you so much for coming on the show it's always a pleasure before we head over

02:06:04.180 to our locals where our supporters get to ask their questions to you our final question is

02:06:09.620 always the same what's the one thing we're not talking about as a society that we really should

02:06:14.260 be? Restoration. Which is the title of your sub-stack by the way so I'm glad you slipped that

02:06:21.140 in. Tell us more about what people can find out there. I think for many years we've talked about

02:06:26.980 what our problems are and it's good and we should continue to talk about what the problems are and

02:06:31.060 diagnose them but perhaps now that we've come to understand most of them we should restore

02:06:36.900 our institutions. We should restore, again, the story, the foundational stories, these principles

02:06:45.360 and celebrate them. And yeah, and I want to be a part of that. Restore the relationship between

02:06:52.760 men and women. Restore the relationship between parents and children, between the generations.

02:06:59.680 There's a great deal of restoration work to be carried out. I mean, that is a great mission and

02:07:04.920 I think we're very lucky to have people of your caliber participating and we certainly aspire to doing the same.

02:07:10.400 So thank you for coming on, Ayaan. It's a great honor to have you back on the show.

02:07:14.420 And of course, head on over to Locals where we ask Ayaan your questions right now.

02:07:19.740 Great. So there was the trigonometry interview with Ayaan Hirsi Ali.

02:07:26.460 Definitely, you know, everything that she says is so important.

02:07:31.780 So I'm glad that we were able to watch that.

02:07:33.940 And I'm also glad that she spoke about Richard Dawkins because he is sort of on my list of people where I want to share documentaries and, you know, comment on them.

02:07:43.400 And, you know, we talk about them on this live chat.

02:07:47.220 Unusual. Thank you for the support. Appreciate that.

02:07:49.340 Haven't seen you in a while. Unusual. Hope you're doing well.

02:07:53.240 Thank you for that. So I just want to point out as well, guys, for those of you who want to keep the conversation going,

02:08:00.020 I do have members only posts as well. So if you're interested in supporting my channel and helping my channel grow, you're welcome to become a member. I'll show you, you know, an example of what, you know, what I posted here. So just give you a sense of the kind of things that goes on and the members only posts that we have.

02:08:24.340 So if you are a member of the channel, I think it's like $10 a month or something, you get access to to the members only message board and you guys are able to provide direct input into what you want to see on the live streams, what you want me to talk about, what you want me to focus on.

02:08:42.380 So, for example, here's a post, you know, where I'm getting member only feedback for, you know, what you guys want me to talk about next week.

02:08:52.500 My show used to be daily. Right now it is only three days a week.

02:08:59.700 And there's a few reasons for that. So the first one is I'm working on a book.

02:09:04.480 It's called Pro Tips from an Iranian, a beginner's guide to understanding politics in the Middle East.

02:09:09.460 You can find it on Amazon and you are able to pre-order it on Kindle if you like.

02:09:16.220 It's going to, there will be a paperback edition as well.

02:09:19.620 You just can't order pre, you can't pre-order the paperback edition yet, but the paperback

02:09:25.620 edition will be available for purchase on December 7 as well.

02:09:29.840 So if you don't like Kindle and you prefer paperback, just keep an eye out on that then

02:09:35.040 because you'll be able to order that as well just in time for Christmas.

02:09:39.060 This book is not necessarily for people who are already experts on the Middle East.

02:09:44.420 This is for people who are new to the topic, don't really know what's going on, want to understand more.

02:09:50.420 So this is kind of a good, you know, little introductory type of thing.

02:09:53.640 There's going to be more of these books coming out.

02:09:55.860 This is just the first in a series that I'm doing.

02:09:58.840 And, you know, I'm going to see how much interest there is.

02:10:00.620 If there is interest from people, then I'm definitely going to do more.

02:10:03.860 For those of you who follow me on Instagram and TikTok and X, you'll know that, you know, this book is based off of my Iranian hero pro tip videos, which have gone viral, you know, and shared thousands, hundreds of thousands of times, millions and millions of views.

02:10:23.240 So there you go. There's that. And I know some of you asked me if I'm going to be on tonight. I don't know, guys. I don't know if I'm going to be on tonight.

02:10:31.100 there's a reason for that it's the same reason that i'm only right now just um doing my live

02:10:37.420 streams three days a week one is because the book is coming out and i so i do have to focus

02:10:42.460 on my book until you know that's ready to go but two i'm actually growing um so i have some exciting

02:10:49.660 news um my channel is growing and this background you see behind me which is kind of temporary

02:10:56.380 um this is going to change so as of next week i'm going to be um in in a brand new location

02:11:02.940 um the background is going to be a little bit more professional really excited about that

02:11:06.620 because when i actually started my channel i started live streaming less than two months ago

02:11:10.780 um i had less than uh 2 000 followers and i think right now um i'm at about i'm over 20 000 followers

02:11:21.260 uh subscribers on um youtube and of course membership numbers are going up as well and

02:11:27.020 that's all thanks to to you guys so um thank you so much for the support but yeah so so a little

02:11:33.340 bit of growing pains i guess but i do plan on going back to do a daily live stream um both

02:11:40.060 during the day and also in the evenings just not right now because there's so much going on that i

02:11:45.340 do have to focus on you know getting the channel um up and running you know the the step the

02:11:50.460 background and everything so yeah for those of you who have been with me up and up until this

02:11:55.740 point you know you guys are the real uh ogs uh you guys have been with me right from the beginning

02:12:00.940 when i started um six seven weeks ago um with this you know it was actually a different background

02:12:07.100 back then this is not even the first background that i had so um but yeah i'm very very excited

02:12:12.140 about the future i'm excited about um how things are are growing and expanding so yeah you just

02:12:17.500 have to bear with me for a little bit as i focus on you know the the expansion and setting up in

02:12:23.660 the new space but as soon as that's done i promise you we will go back to doing daily live streams

02:12:29.020 both during the days and in the evenings um until then thank you everyone for joining me

02:12:36.620 and i will see you all if not tonight then next week have yourselves a fantastic weekend and to

02:12:43.020 all of my Jewish followers. Shabbat Shalom. All right, guys, we'll see you soon. Take care.

02:13:13.020 Thank you.

02:13:43.020 Thank you.

Goldie Ghamari - November 21, 2025

The Growing Threat of Radical Islam： Ayaan Hirsi Ali on Triggernometry

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