Greg Wycliffe - June 18, 2021


Does Tearing Down Statues Help Indigenous Canadians？

Topics
tearing down statues toppling statues
Hosted by
Greg Wycliffe
Mentioned
John A. Macdonald Egerton Ryerson Pierre Poilievre Bill C-63 Mussolini Trudeau Hitler Greg
Curb Your Jagmeet Why Bill C-10 is so Important

Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

162.4

Word count

1,957

Sentence count

139

Harmful content

Misogyny

1

sentences flagged

Toxicity

9

sentences flagged

Hate speech

8

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, I talk about the growing trend of taking down statues in public spaces across Canada, and why it s a bad idea. I also talk about why we need to stop policing Indigenous peoples on their decisions regarding what immediate actions they are taking to help their communities heal.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Toxicity classifications generated with s-nlp/roberta_toxicity_classifier .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
Topics generated with Qwen2.5-3B-Instruct.
Hosts, guests, and mentioned names generated with spaCy (en_core_web_sm), reconciled against Wikidata.
00:00:00.720 Does tearing down statues actually help the quality of life of Indigenous First Nations people here in Canada?
00:00:09.600 I'm a Canadian, my name's Greg, and of course here we can see Eggerson Ryerson statue that got toppled over recently.
00:00:17.440 And this is a picture in Montreal where they took down the Sir John A. Macdonald statue.
00:00:24.220 It's a very popular trend growing here in Canada.
00:00:27.960 And this is a defaced Winston Churchill statue and a tweet from Pierre Palièvre.
00:00:35.280 Don't schools teach history anymore?
00:00:37.340 Now the woke warriors attack the statue of Winston Churchill, the greatest anti-fascist of all time.
00:00:42.960 He beat Hitler and Mussolini for crying out loud.
00:00:46.300 Do these vandals wish he had lost?
00:00:49.740 Good question.
00:00:51.680 I saw this post.
00:00:53.240 This post is of a Sir John A. Macdonald statue in Kingston, the original capital of Canada, if you didn't know.
00:01:00.300 Not for a long time, but Sir John A. spent a lot of time there in Kingston.
00:01:03.560 There's a statue of him there.
00:01:05.320 And of course there's murmurings of the Indigenous member of a community, an ally of the ongoing peaceful demonstration at the statue site.
00:01:16.460 And this was on a Queen's University Facebook page.
00:01:20.420 And I made the mistake of saying something in a Queen's University Facebook page.
00:01:25.020 But I also tweeted it out, my initial comment, which was,
00:01:28.280 The other difference to point out there is that, you know, calling for accountability of dead people versus calling for the accountability of people who are alive in power.
00:01:51.660 Kind of a difference, but I go on to continue.
00:01:56.000 The former is very shallow and easy to do, tear down a statue, and it accomplishes next to nothing.
00:02:02.560 The latter requires serious effort, persistence, meaningful organization, but can also solve preventable problems in the present.
00:02:11.940 Of course, naturally, posting this on the Queen's Facebook page, I got some reactions, which I'll read here.
00:02:18.100 I don't know if you follow the news, but Indigenous peoples are doing both.
00:02:22.760 The latter is difficult, without political will of the majority, and has been a much slower process.
00:02:28.840 Taking down statues is a way to help heal trauma.
00:02:31.880 So when we walk into a park, we aren't reminded of the horrific events that took place at residential schools. 0.84
00:02:37.700 Policing Indigenous peoples on their decisions regarding what immediate actions they are taking to help their communities heal is not productive and isn't the hot take you think it is.
00:02:48.740 This was my reply.
00:02:50.420 If you're getting triggered by seeing a statue in a park, you have much bigger problems on your hands.
00:02:57.160 Unironically, consider seeing a therapist.
00:02:59.820 By the way, a therapist would not recommend tearing down a statue to make yourself feel better.
00:03:04.940 This destructive behavior just makes potential allies and supporters resent your cause.
00:03:09.320 Instead of grilling Trudeau, Ford, and whoever else about the terrible living conditions on Native Reserves and focusing on a specific goal and solution,
00:03:18.620 you'd rather make a spectacle that gets featured on CBC where we talk about something that happened hundreds of years ago,
00:03:24.760 while people in 2021 on Native Reserves still don't have clean drinking water.
00:03:29.560 These friendly politicians and charming CBC hosts are not your friend.
00:03:33.520 They'd rather irritate the problem and make content about it than talk about holding politicians accountable or looking into dated legislation like the Indian Act in Canada, for example.
00:03:44.420 This person replied,
00:03:46.460 That's actually hilarious.
00:03:48.520 Good one, buddy.
00:03:49.780 Potential allies.
00:03:51.040 We don't want fake allies who do not support us in all the small steps we are having to take.
00:03:55.900 It's funny that one of the small steps is knocking down a statue.
00:03:59.280 That's the very first step we need to make before changing legislation.
00:04:02.540 In case you need a history lesson, the last residential school closed in 1996.
00:04:07.860 John A. MacDonald set the framework for the injustices we as indigenous people face today.
00:04:13.780 This is one small step in getting justice, recognition, accountability, and awareness to these issues.
00:04:20.160 Toppling the statue does all these things.
00:04:22.040 Okay.
00:04:22.580 The glorification of those who murdered and abused my people is counterintuitive to us gaining justice and basic human rights.
00:04:30.040 Well, completely denying the context of history also doesn't lend your cause much credibility.
00:04:37.200 When you're just kind of saying everything to do with these statues, you know, none of it.
00:04:41.220 You know, you're not winning a lot of support by not having any nuance in your approach.
00:04:46.640 But I continue, or they continue rather.
00:04:50.240 You obviously aren't well educated on these issues and don't understand the complexities with them.
00:04:54.880 The small steps are important and no easy feat considering the systemic racism integrated into law and policy.
00:05:02.580 Once again, knocking down the statue has to be the first step, apparently.
00:05:07.560 Changing law and policy has more barriers than one could even imagine.
00:05:12.260 I know because that's my job.
00:05:14.300 Stick with what you know and stop policing us on how we deal with our trauma.
00:05:18.100 That's another funny thing that this person brings up.
00:05:21.420 Stop policing us on how to deal with our trauma.
00:05:25.400 By me pointing out the fact that holding a dead person accountable isn't going to be as effective as holding a live person in power accountable.
00:05:34.120 That's apparently me being policing how to deal with their trauma.
00:05:38.220 But I picked one specific part out of what they said because I thought it was really hilarious.
00:05:43.300 They say changing law and policy has more barriers than one could imagine.
00:05:49.580 Really?
00:05:50.020 Really?
00:05:51.420 I say lol.
00:05:53.400 Laugh out loud.
00:05:54.400 Liberal MPs are currently pushing through changes to our Broadcasting Act, Bill C-10,
00:05:59.540 to allow the government to have unprecedented control of all content on the Canadian internet.
00:06:04.880 They're ruthlessly pursuing these changes, shutting down debates,
00:06:08.100 and doing anything necessary to change these laws that gives them control over all speech online.
00:06:13.960 Guess what?
00:06:15.080 Meaningfully helping indigenous people is not on their actual, actionable priority list.
00:06:20.460 These people have the power to make changes, and they just placate you.
00:06:25.280 Exploiting your trauma and tokenizing your community to get re-elected with superficial policy promises is all they're interested in.
00:06:33.340 If it truly is your job, I'm curious, how much effort is focused on promoting your trauma for the political media establishment to use as fodder for their look-good image,
00:06:43.320 and how much is focused on lobbying and pressuring bureaucrats to actually push for something meaningful?
00:06:49.040 At your job, at your job, are there any specific goals for making policy changes, or is it just painting murals?
00:06:57.960 Yes, this language, I'm being a little harsh here, but I'm trying to get my point across here.
00:07:02.060 I want to know.
00:07:03.440 I want to know.
00:07:04.360 Someone said, as well, someone else chimed in.
00:07:09.300 Oh, by the way, this person didn't respond.
00:07:11.360 They just said, yikes, to me.
00:07:13.380 So I guess, I don't know, they didn't want to answer my questions.
00:07:16.700 Someone else said, of course they have goals to make specific political and other changes.
00:07:21.140 No one's mentioned those goals, by the way, in the whole comment section so far.
00:07:26.780 This is cumulative.
00:07:28.100 Once again, knocking down the statue.
00:07:29.780 Very first step, apparently.
00:07:31.160 Not creating a non-profit group or trying to specifically, you know, write, put pen to paper,
00:07:37.820 and make specifics of what your demands might be.
00:07:40.020 No actionable goals other than knock the statue down.
00:07:45.220 Rome wasn't built in a day.
00:07:46.660 And please don't pretend you know what indigenous people have gone through or what's better for them
00:07:52.220 because you don't.
00:07:53.900 Because you don't have those same experiences or history.
00:07:57.020 I would agree with that, by the way.
00:07:59.160 And I never did say that.
00:08:00.860 Once again, I'm just pointing out the obvious fact from the beginning.
00:08:03.700 I think you'd have a lot more, you know, I think you'd have a lot more bigger impact
00:08:09.200 if you held live, alive people, people that are alive,
00:08:13.240 if you held them accountable and not dead people.
00:08:15.760 I don't know if you're going to get very far doing that.
00:08:19.300 I myself will also never fully understand the struggles and trauma
00:08:22.580 that indigenous communities have gone through.
00:08:24.800 Oh my God, thank you for mentioning that.
00:08:26.600 We know that you're so great now.
00:08:27.960 We both need to emphasize and work to support changes
00:08:30.820 that benefit those who are not being heard.
00:08:33.160 Kingston should feel like home to every member of our community.
00:08:36.740 Once again, this idea that you can't even go to a park
00:08:39.700 with the Sir John A. McDonald statue
00:08:43.380 or else you have like these vivid flashbacks.
00:08:48.080 Unironically, go see a therapist if that's the case
00:08:50.040 because that's crazy.
00:08:51.840 That is very intense.
00:08:53.920 And here's my final comment that I left to multiple people.
00:08:57.560 Um, and it's a little aggressive, so strap in, folks. 0.98
00:09:02.820 The expensive higher education you guys are paying out the ass for 0.99
00:09:06.620 literally retards your ability to problem solve. 0.99
00:09:10.440 Knocking down a statue and talking about your fee-fees,
00:09:13.720 that's feelings, accomplishes nothing.
00:09:16.240 I am sure one of you academics could justify it
00:09:19.040 by writing an essay about how toppling statues liberates me from trauma.
00:09:23.300 But all I'm saying is an essay that reads like a pretentious journal entry
00:09:28.160 does nothing to change indigenous policy in Canada.
00:09:31.480 Heck, it doesn't even draw attention towards the sitting politicians
00:09:34.880 who have the power to improve the poor state of indigenous reserves in Canada.
00:09:40.680 Meanwhile, the indoctrination teaches you to hate someone like me
00:09:44.620 for stating the obvious,
00:09:46.360 as if being brutally honest about the situation
00:09:48.720 is a sign of my genocidal hatred or something.
00:09:51.380 I'm just encouraging people to hold those in power accountable.
00:09:57.540 Oh yeah, those people that need to be held accountable,
00:10:00.260 they should be alive.
00:10:01.960 I wish I was surprised at the fact that I have to mention that relevant detail
00:10:06.100 to someone with a university education.
00:10:08.760 I don't act like I know what is best for indigenous people. 1.00
00:10:12.540 It's the white liberal women in this comment section doing that. 1.00
00:10:16.180 I'm merely suggesting you hold decision makers accountable
00:10:19.760 and focus on improving the quality of life of indigenous people living on reserves
00:10:23.960 or scrutinizing the Indian Act, for example.
00:10:27.920 Are people actively listening to those suffering in the poor conditions of indigenous reserves?
00:10:33.480 Someone asked me that I should be better at actively listening.
00:10:38.140 So I said, are people actively listening to those suffering in the poor conditions of indigenous reserves?
00:10:42.900 Or, or sorry, are they asking for statues to be knocked down on reserves?
00:10:48.820 Are they asking for clean drinking water?
00:10:52.380 Or, sorry, or are they asking for clean drinking water?
00:10:55.340 The sad and funny thing about this that I'm coming to realize
00:10:58.320 is that I suspect most people just want to tear down these statues
00:11:01.720 not to actually help indigenous people, 0.97
00:11:04.340 but to piss off old white people. 0.96
00:11:06.600 I definitely see the appeal. 0.99
00:11:08.140 I just think it comes across as ungrateful and immature
00:11:10.740 when people focus on resenting history and hurt feelings
00:11:14.020 instead of confronting the uncomfortable reality of the issue
00:11:17.600 and looking for practical solutions.
00:11:20.260 Like, why not focus on the small group of old white people in government 0.97
00:11:23.880 who are responsible for doing nothing to improve the lives of indigenous people 1.00
00:11:28.660 instead of just trying to broadly piss off as many old white people as you can 1.00
00:11:33.900 and not actually solve anything. 0.89
00:11:35.760 I'm sure there will be plenty of responses to this,
00:11:40.200 but I just wanted to share that little Facebook argument interaction.
00:11:45.260 I am genuinely curious about my original question,
00:11:49.900 you know, does knocking down these statues,
00:11:51.780 does it actually help the quality of life
00:11:53.920 for indigenous and First Nations people in Canada?
00:11:57.420 Thank you for watching.
00:11:58.700 Make sure you like, share, and subscribe for more.
00:12:01.020 And we will talk to you soon.