Greg Wycliffe - LIVE DEBATE!🔴Become 51st State or remain Canada？🔴What's the best path forward？ 🇨🇦🇺🇸

00:00:00.000 Oh, I'm not hearing him.

00:00:02.840 Are you hearing him, Lee?

00:00:04.040 Hello.

00:00:04.560 Everyone's muted.

00:00:07.200 Okay.

00:00:08.420 Can you hear me now?

00:00:10.280 Can you hear me now?

00:00:11.900 I'm trying to do a mic check with Greg.

00:00:14.380 I'm not hearing it.

00:00:28.040 Hello.

00:00:30.000 hi was that greg no can you hear me hey 40 sacks okay there you are how's it going

00:00:39.060 not too bad how's everybody doing yeah great we're just uh working things out if greg needs

00:00:46.560 to drop down come back up um we can do that right check check you can't hear me okay i think greg is

00:00:54.820 also setting up his live stream on youtube so i think that might be uh might be why

00:00:59.500 right some technical stuff okay jason welcome thanks for coming

00:01:05.740 all right well i know that greg has all the rules planned up but um you know we're just

00:01:23.060 really excited about this oh my god you guys can see this you know we want to stay friends

00:01:27.360 afterwards and i'll be able to go out for for drinks so may the may the best team win

00:01:35.240 make some excellent points get your jobs let's try joining again

00:01:41.860 start listening may the may the best team win make some excellent points get your jobs can

00:01:51.900 you guys hear me i think greg had to drop down to listen hello can you hear me try and bring him 0.99

00:01:58.780 back up can you hear me can you hear me now can you hear me now fuck me can we check your mic greg 1.00

00:02:10.540 hello check check oh my god here we go fucking idiot hi is that better 0.99

00:02:20.740 hello yes i am so sorry so sorry about that all right let's get started thank you so much for the 0.97

00:02:29.840 base maiden for hosting this thank you for lee for being a moderator sorry for the technical

00:02:35.160 difficulties off to a great start um i'm going to introduce everybody shortly and we can get

00:02:40.900 started i just wanted to kind of frame the conversation outline the guardrails for this

00:02:45.900 discussion tonight thank you for all being here we've seen donald trump talking about it we've

00:02:51.140 seen every canadian politician posturing about it trump sounds serious about getting canada to

00:02:57.060 become the 51st state or part of america he's brought up drug cartels the infiltration of

00:03:02.440 chinese or foreign influence but aside from what trump's saying whether he is serious or not not

00:03:08.580 it sparked a lot of conversation in canada and tonight during this discussion we'll be focusing

00:03:13.780 on keeping the guardrails on canadian interests i think both sides of this debate tonight are

00:03:20.460 concerned about foreign interference and corruption within ottawa and our canadian government and

00:03:25.140 institutions so the question is and the focus is what is the best path forward for a step for a

00:03:31.960 separatist argument we need canada to become part of america or to start to have alberta to start

00:03:38.480 to separate from ottawa to help fight this corruption and to have canadian interests at

00:03:43.260 the forefront the loyalist argument is to remain part of canada don't become part of america and

00:03:49.140 canadians just need to fight harder against this corruption to reclaim our own government and

00:03:53.900 institution to serve canadian interests i lay i lay all this out because it's easy for us to get

00:03:59.800 lost or caught up in different directions talking about the monarchy and the constitution of course

00:04:04.480 we'll probably get to that but i i lay out this focus gentlemen because like what many people are

00:04:11.060 listening are wondering is if you're canadian what is the best path forward why and what does

00:04:17.360 it look like or at least what are the next steps look like uh for the separatist side we have marty

00:04:23.920 up north a franco albertian applied scientist father of four youtuber political commentator

00:04:29.940 and also on the separatist side and i believe and on the alberta independence side is real

00:04:35.440 Cameron Davies, a proud patriot, Marine, and Republican.

00:04:39.900 And then on the loyalist side, we have Daniel Tyree, Canadian nationalist, former PPC executive

00:04:45.840 director, and re-migration enthusiast.

00:04:48.860 And we also have on the loyalist side Fortisax, a Canadian nationalist, writer, Anglo-Quebecois,

00:04:55.280 and he definitely knows a lot more than I do about Canadian history.

00:04:59.200 It also sounds like Harrison Faulkner, formerly from True North, will be joining us as well.

00:05:03.540 and i invited other special guests who i hope will be hopping on after the 30 to 45 minute mark

00:05:08.620 as we discuss these topics and before we do opening statements one last thing before i shut up

00:05:12.960 this discussion is going to be solutions oriented guys okay you know canadians want to know the path

00:05:18.780 forward they want to know the next step so for people who are coming on uh you know the personal

00:05:25.040 attacks i'm we're going to shut down we're going to mute if it goes there especially against me

00:05:30.100 okay because i'm very sensitive but uh no ridicule and mockery is okay uh because i think that's a

00:05:35.640 good way to get your point across and being effective um but it's gonna like i say all this

00:05:40.680 because we're gonna focus on a productive conversation it's easy to start calling each

00:05:43.740 other names oh this place is hopeless but to give you an example you know people might say this about 0.99

00:05:49.340 the loyalists you think we can reclaim these institutions you're delusional you're crazy

00:05:55.200 that's fine but tell us why tell us why we're delusional like like you know spell it out for

00:06:00.060 us why we're delusional and if you are uh you know you might say this about the separatist side

00:06:04.680 you're naive you're short-term minded if you think becoming part of america is going to you

00:06:11.100 know solve our problems but like you can't just say they're naive and short-term minded

00:06:14.400 explain to us why they're naive why they're short-term minded um and yeah and then we can

00:06:19.740 get into something productive so without further ado we're going to do opening statements we're

00:06:24.980 going to do opening statements from the two separatists first we're going to go marty up

00:06:29.480 north first we're going to go cameron second and if you could do one to three minutes each uh you

00:06:37.040 don't have to really go over your background i think more just explaining your position on the

00:06:41.400 topic like what is the best best path forward do you think for canada so we'll do marty up north

00:06:47.620 first then cameron and then we'll go to uh daniel and fortisaks after that you'll get up to three

00:06:53.000 minutes each all right are you there marty i'm there all right great intro um all right three

00:07:01.720 minutes so you know anybody who's been following me for a while you know my my my headline on my

00:07:08.600 twitter page is you know says alberta independence so i'm not interested in joining the americans

00:07:15.140 never been interested in joining the americans um you know i'll say this whatever the americans

00:07:20.600 whatever people think that the americans could offer us whether it's a better country in the

00:07:25.700 world as far as i'm concerned with resources and in abundance but we but we haven't been able to

00:07:31.420 fulfill our destiny of being you know a very powerful nation i'm 57 years old uh i've been

00:07:40.980 living a bread canadian uh 12th generation that's no joke i i can trace back my lineage to

00:07:48.420 I'm the 12th generation of my family born here, and I have four kids that were born here.

00:07:53.640 I live pretty much across the country, worked across the country, speak both languages.

00:07:58.760 For most of my life, I was a pretty typical Canadian who really didn't care what was going on.

00:08:05.760 I'm an Albertan.

00:08:06.720 I was working head down.

00:08:10.440 And if you told me in 2010 or 11 that, hey, Marty, a bunch of your taxes as an Albertan

00:08:16.720 are being wasted in ottawa i wouldn't have cared uh because i you know i had a pickup truck my

00:08:22.960 house my kids were doing well everything was good uh something happened around 2014 we had a small

00:08:29.600 downturn in the price of oil and people out east started cheering as if the demise of alberta was

00:08:36.000 something good uh we didn't care in alberta we continued on um and then and then all of a sudden

00:08:43.920 it became existential the threat to Alberta because we elected Trudeau and in his cabinet

00:08:51.240 he had guys like Stephen Gilbeau and others who who suddenly instead of just interfering and just

00:08:59.300 abusing us we're we're now almost openly declaring a war against us they don't like me particularly

00:09:07.800 because I'm a landowner I drill for oil and gas I own guns I'm a family man

00:09:13.200 so um i'm rambling a little bit but canada to me i kind of suspected it was broken because

00:09:22.040 a long time ago but it didn't manifest itself in my day-to-day life and when i say broken

00:09:28.780 it's because uh as i posted up in the nest if you look at confederation the way it was designed

00:09:35.620 adding uh you know it was four provinces to start with and adding a bunch of other provinces along

00:09:41.860 the way saskatchewan manitoba bc others it was sort of an afterthought and and the other provinces

00:09:49.400 never got a fair deal and a few things put into confederation to try and make it work

00:09:55.340 and and i guess we kind of succeeded in making it work for a while but at the end of the day

00:10:01.140 i i it today in in 2025 as an albertan to me my conclusion is that canada as designed

00:10:10.420 is broken now i know you talked about solutions to me there is a there is a yeah you got about

00:10:17.740 30 seconds yeah there there is a path forward if you want it to repair it which is changes to the

00:10:24.980 constitution and give all the provinces an equal representation but based on the events that

00:10:30.700 occurred in the last couple of weeks in particular you know that i don't see a team canada and i

00:10:36.200 don't see that possibility so i'm i'm promoting an independent alberta pause it there oh okay so

00:10:46.820 independent alberta to potentially join america as in like be like an independent alberta will

00:10:52.700 be the next step to joining america or uh independent no i'm not interested i'm really

00:10:58.460 not interested in joining america i'd be proposing an independent alberta but i i should put a caveat

00:11:03.040 actually i think every province or or i think the country should break up into about six regions six

00:11:08.480 provinces or six countries on their own i i think there's no fixing canada so i would just break it

00:11:14.560 up okay and if some if some regions want to join the u.s that's their prerogative but i i as an

00:11:20.560 albertan i'm not promoting joining the u.s okay uh and i guess we'll get into that further in

00:11:26.960 terms of what your stance is in regards to wanting an american-like constitution or a republic and

00:11:32.000 that sort of thing um but uh let's go to cameron cameron are you there can you give your your three

00:11:38.000 minutes uh opening statements on what is the best path forward for canada all right well thanks greg

00:11:45.840 and and the hosts here for putting this on tonight i'm looking forward to a great discussion so i was

00:11:52.740 born in the united states i'm an albertan by choice my family moved here when i was quite young

00:11:58.000 And I grew up in Alberta. The historical, traditional young Albertan went and worked in oil and gas. And the benefits of being an Albertan and having the opportunities that were available in this province and have since been continually attacked and denigrated by the rest of Canada for decades, long before I was involved.

00:12:24.780 I've got a bumper sticker on my office wall here from 1971.

00:12:30.060 It was the rallying cry of the West wants in, and now I believe the West wants out.

00:12:35.940 I am a Alberta separatist.

00:12:38.520 I am focused solely on achieving that.

00:12:43.380 I don't believe that Canada can be fixed, and here's the reasons why.

00:12:48.760 We have a cultural difference between Eastern Canada and Western Canada, and what I mean by that is the view of self-determination, the strong independence mindset, the desire to be left alone and free to forge our own path, whether that be in a career or otherwise.

00:13:16.940 there is a fundamental cultural difference. The individualism of Alberta often clashes

00:13:26.540 in Ottawa with the progressive centralized tendencies the rest of Canada seems to embrace

00:13:32.400 every single federal election. And I include every election because even when we elect

00:13:38.780 conservatives, we often see that play out that there's acquiescence to the Ontario-Quebec

00:13:45.240 desire for the institutions and that preservation of progressive policies, whether they be watered

00:13:54.980 down from cycle to cycle or not. So there's distinct cultural differences. And if you're

00:14:00.760 a historian like me, you dive into why that is, how the West was settled, Alberta, Saskatchewan,

00:14:07.380 Manitoba in particular. Largely, there was a large influx of Americans into the West,

00:14:13.960 and the east was was several generations prior to that predominantly from from both europe and

00:14:22.300 and the loyalists fleeing the 13 colonies so cultural differences number one we have that

00:14:30.280 cultural difference creates an irreconcilable difference and many of you have heard me say it 1.00

00:14:35.760 before but i do believe we are in a irreconcilable difference with the rest of canada we we need a

00:14:41.960 divorce here in Alberta, and I'm not a 51st stater. I believe that should be left to the people,

00:14:48.320 but right now we need a divorce before we get our dancing shoes on. 1.00

00:14:53.560 Canada by design is broken because the system was designed originally to ensure that the power

00:15:02.920 brokers at the time were able to maintain and exert power over the rest of Canada, which was

00:15:08.280 an economic resource colony all right cameron and so to marty's you got 60 seconds here yeah

00:15:14.020 so so to marty's point without tripoli senate without judicial reform without a constitution

00:15:23.360 instead of instead of our forms of government they're weak canada cannot be fixed and so the

00:15:30.840 best thing for canada is alberta to separate forge its own path and lead by example and show canada

00:15:37.840 there's another alternative there's a there's a better way all right all right thank you i like

00:15:46.020 the idea of you need to divorce ottawa that's a good sort of uh visual for people um all right 1.00

00:15:52.700 it's so for we're going to go to the loyalist side now um who wants to start fortisax or daniel

00:16:01.100 i think we said daniel's going to go first mr tyree can you give us your your three minute

00:16:05.660 uh introductory statement uh yeah for sure um so so just to start off on the uh to address any

00:16:19.120 any uh trump's statements around annexation uh i do want to just kind of press this the

00:16:26.480 point by saying i don't perceive those as serious threats uh i've mentioned this on a previous space

00:16:34.960 But I very much believe this is just Trumpian rhetoric in order to expose some of the shortcomings coming out of the Canadian government, specifically around our lack of military capacity.

00:16:47.780 In the modern context, the Arctic has become a more active geopolitical zone, and Canada has limited to no ability to control an increasingly important area of the globe.

00:17:01.620 and i believe trump's statements around annexing canada is a kind of a coy and classic donald trump

00:17:09.560 way of exposing this lack of military capacity so while he's made claims around trade and around

00:17:15.620 drugs and immigration and stuff i think the root of the problem is that we don't have

00:17:20.020 much uh capacity to control an important part of the globe that affects american trade interests

00:17:27.040 as well as american security interests uh it's kind of been a missed part of the the conversation

00:17:33.200 uh and the response from the canadian government so in terms of annexation i don't think it's a

00:17:39.200 a credible thing that's going to happen it doesn't seem to be a central point of this conversation

00:17:47.040 it sounds like we're going to focus more on separation rather than annexation um so i just

00:17:52.960 wanted to quickly kind of put my my thoughts on that aside um in terms of our national sovereignty

00:18:02.560 our our union as a confederation and our distinction from the united states i think

00:18:08.080 my the the root of my position philosophically is that uh any benefits of joining the states

00:18:17.040 would be focused on kind of short-term gains. That is a bit too short-sighted. People cite

00:18:28.020 things like getting lower taxes, access to the First and Second Amendment as key benefits of

00:18:35.080 joining the states. But really, I think what's most important as a nationalist is that we're

00:18:44.580 not simply individuals that seek personal gain and satisfaction. We're only the most recent

00:18:53.300 iterations of a long heritage of Canadians. And it's our duty as Canadians to preserve

00:19:03.780 this nation for the benefit of our people and for the benefit of our descendants.

00:19:08.540 And it would be a betrayal to our ancestors to cede this great country that they built to the Americans in order to gain short-sighted interests like I've listed previously.

00:19:26.120 It's our duty as Canadians to ensure this country is governed well for the future of our people.

00:19:34.380 I completely agree with the separatists on the other side of the floor that the recent governance has been poor and has certainly negatively affected Western Canada, but I don't think the solution to that is separation or joining the states.

00:19:56.760 I think the solution is creating a better government that serves the interests of all of our people, Western and Eastern.

00:20:07.140 All right. Thank you. Thank you, Daniel Tyree.

00:20:12.340 Yeah, I like what you said about it's our it's our duty to, you know, satisfy what our ancestors had built before us.

00:20:20.560 Mr. Fortisax, are you there?

00:20:25.060 What is the best path forward for Canada, sir?

00:20:30.760 Well, so I wanted to thank you all for inviting me.

00:20:34.160 It's a pleasure to be here and to engage in this great Canadian tradition of debate.

00:20:40.020 In the spirit of the Fathers of the Confederation, we channel the energy of titans like Sir John A.

00:20:45.140 mcdonald george etienne cartier thomas darcy mcgee and george brown and alexander galt men

00:20:52.260 who didn't just build the country but defined its character i want to begin by expressing my

00:20:58.180 sincere sympathies to our western provinces especially alberta i believe that for far too

00:21:03.460 long they've been on the receiving end of a federal government that has been at best apathetic

00:21:07.920 and at worst openly disdainful if not hostile alberta has contributed immensely to the confederation

00:21:14.640 not only by providing critical natural resources but by sending trillions of dollars to the rest

00:21:20.200 of the country through transfer payments over decades the reality is not lost on many

00:21:25.880 conservatives in the east and i believe i speak for many when i say that if it was up to us it

00:21:30.240 would stop immediately ontario and quebec are the economic engines of canada equalization payments

00:21:36.380 to quebec are not only outdated but completely unnecessary as a matter of fact they only account

00:21:40.720 for 9% of Quebec's budget, according to their own 2024-2025 finance ministry report.

00:21:47.040 So this is no longer about need.

00:21:48.680 It's just purely entitlement.

00:21:49.920 It's purely entitlement and greed.

00:21:52.600 Now, as an Eastern Canadian, my roots run deep, much like Marty, who calls himself a

00:21:57.700 12th generation Franco-Albertan, likely traces his lineage back to the Fiduois, just like

00:22:02.980 my own ancestors, as a 12th generation Quebecer.

00:22:06.720 That makes him something more than a resident.

00:22:09.300 it makes him an ethnic Canadian. Before Confederation even had a name, Canadians were here,

00:22:16.440 settlers and builders and explorers. Most Canadians today descend from two founding groups,

00:22:21.940 British and French, who became Anglo-Canadian and French-Canadian. And these aren't just

00:22:26.060 categories, they're cultures, languages, ethnicities, shared memories. And even in Alberta

00:22:32.720 and Saskatchewan, often the thought of as newer, more individualistic provinces, these roots are

00:22:37.480 still strong. Alberta today is 47% Anglo-French. Saskatchewan is 55% Anglo-French. Their flags,

00:22:45.640 names, and founding institutions tell that story. The cross of St. George is on Alberta's coat of

00:22:50.360 arms, the name Alberta itself drawn from Queen Victoria's daughter. Westerners might think of

00:22:56.040 themselves and their history beginning with cowboys and ranchers, but the first men with spurs on the

00:23:00.800 prairies were the Northwest Mounted Police, sent by MacDonald himself to keep opportunistic

00:23:05.800 americans from carving up free land into u.s territory the west was protected and claimed

00:23:11.800 by canadians not by americans we're not just citizens who live in a post-national proposition

00:23:19.560 where people with one heritage sons and daughters of loyalists and feed the law

00:23:27.640 i think now we should speak frequently frankly about why canadians today particularly younger

00:23:32.840 ones are looking south they want three things the first amendment the second amendment and a 0.99

00:23:36.600 better economy with more opportunity and i'm sympathetic to that i feel it i feel the squeeze

00:23:40.540 myself jobs housing private health care if they can afford it right you got 60 seconds these are

00:23:46.440 all real concerns i say as a canadian especially those wondering if they'd be freer wealthier or

00:23:57.680 safer under another flag to look around in many ways you're already freer than you think you are

00:24:02.020 and richer in something that the U.S. is rapidly losing.

00:24:05.820 A shared history, a national memory, and an identity rooted in place.

00:24:10.200 Canada isn't just an idea.

00:24:11.980 We are a people, East and West, French and English,

00:24:15.140 bound not just by borders but by blood, culture, and history.

00:24:19.080 So let's fix what's broken and not abandon what we are.

00:24:26.460 That was a banger final line.

00:24:29.160 Let's fix what's broken, not abandon who we are.

00:24:33.860 Now, I'd like to try and just get the conversation naturally flowing here.

00:24:38.980 Is there any of the separatists, Marty up north or Cameron,

00:24:43.660 do you guys have any immediate questions for the loyalists that you kind of want to?

00:24:51.260 Like, has anything jumped out at you of like what you kind of want to interrogate

00:24:55.140 from the loyalists here?

00:24:57.280 saying i've got one if marty doesn't sure go ahead sure so the first question would be the

00:25:07.060 first loyalist would be what exactly are you preserving because the nostalgia of what canada

00:25:14.380 was hasn't been for several generations the benefits that that benefited a nation that was

00:25:22.700 supposed to be governed by ontario and quebec hasn't benefited the rest of canada so what

00:25:28.320 exactly are you trying to preserve i can speak to that but daniel if you want to answer if you have

00:25:35.940 an answer lead us off yeah you can go ahead for us sure so for sure yeah so when we talk about

00:25:48.020 preserving a national identity uh nations are groups of people who share a common heritage

00:25:55.780 it's not just a piece of paper it's not necessarily even just living in a place but

00:25:59.860 it's belonging to a community it's belonging to a broader ethnic family that you share and this

00:26:04.980 concept is normal and commonplace out east in many places people still remember what a canadian is

00:26:10.420 growing up as a quebecker is never a question to me what a canadian is it was not passport paper 0.72

00:26:14.740 It was not someone who could simply move. So when you say, what are we preserving? Well, it's preserving our way of life. It's preserving the values of peace, order and good government. The foundational Canadian values that have defined us for centuries. It's, you know, it's it's our folkways. It's our culture. It's it's our sports. It's our food. It's the way that we live and conduct business. It's the way we trust the law to not break our knees at a traffic stop.

00:26:39.000 most of the time when we talk about what is there left to preserve i find that a bit of a loaded or

00:26:45.180 at least a redundant question because you could ask that about just about anywhere you could say

00:26:48.700 well what is there left in the british state to preserve what is there left for germans to preserve 1.00

00:26:52.860 if the metric for abandoning our heritage or for abandoning our way of life is we'll look around

00:26:58.680 you look at how there's nothing left i mean you could apply that to the u.s as well you could

00:27:02.780 apply that to practically anywhere so for me it's preserving the ethnic body of our people

00:27:08.280 the canadian people and preserving our way of life and our common culture and heritage

00:27:13.080 and and but so if i could add to that like you know confederation to me is 157 years old like

00:27:22.820 it's 18 you know it's 1867 somebody said that you know the the west was first settled by whatever

00:27:30.340 the northwest mounted police no absolutely not i mean there's been people in the west living here

00:27:35.480 you know some of the locals like to say since time immemorial but uh me personally I mean

00:27:42.220 I've had I've had ancestors here like I'm you know I was just looking at the family tree I had

00:27:48.620 nine generations that were here before sorry eight generations were here before even confederation

00:27:54.640 occurred and then and then you know five since so to me this idea of confederation it I don't even

00:28:01.500 have an emotional attachment to that so you know i i'm just throwing that out there yeah and i think

00:28:08.600 that's why uh fordstacks myself we we bring this back to our identity as an ethnic people uh marty

00:28:16.780 we're not just rooting it in confederation our history certainly goes back much further than

00:28:21.620 that hundreds of years um and that is something part of what is so beautiful and and worth

00:28:28.740 preserving uh now regardless of whether or not the state is accurately representing and preserving

00:28:35.820 the uh the entrance of that ethnos i think that's the the crux of the problem that needs to be 0.97

00:28:43.300 addressed and it goes back to right to the the root of uh where the end of portasacks is a

00:28:49.200 uh opening statement uh we need to fix what's broken not just uh throw the yeah yeah the bath

00:28:56.040 water and and and and i think that's the debate that we're gonna get into because you know when

00:29:04.200 i heard you guys talking we're almost we're almost in agreement i mean we're definitely

00:29:07.900 in agreement in terms of the potential of canada or or territory i think we're all in agreement

00:29:16.120 that we're not interested in joining the u.s in the short term the debate simply becomes at this

00:29:20.580 point is canada um can it be repaired and and that's the debate and so um you know and and and

00:29:30.820 can it be repaired and should it be repaired because you know if we're in a discussion and

00:29:35.700 if we're in a in a negotiation i mean this is a question i ask the people right now often if given

00:29:41.140 what we know today um if it wasn't you know if if if this was 1867 would we join would we have

00:29:49.140 formed a confederation knowing what we know today my my my theory is no so i think you know that's

00:29:56.620 my debate is it is it repairable or not and people are going to have a hard time convincing me the

00:30:01.900 confederation is repairable because as an albertan i don't know what's in it i don't see the value of

00:30:07.880 being part of this confederation the there's another aspect that i think critical to address

00:30:14.920 And that is that culture difference.

00:30:18.440 So, Forex, you brought the Anglo influences in all of Canada.

00:30:26.320 And I would just challenge that because by 1890, some estimates, upwards of 100,000 Americans settled between Florida and Saskatchewan.

00:30:38.580 And that created a very different culture in the West.

00:30:44.920 1.2 million Eastern European immigrants came to the West

00:30:49.920 in search of life, independence.

00:30:52.980 We're looking for hand-ups, not hand-outs.

00:30:56.100 And that is a fundamental difference

00:30:59.200 from the 35,000, 45,000 loyalist Americans

00:31:04.360 who fled the 13 colonies,

00:31:06.880 created an influx of the loyalist population of Ontario in Quebec

00:31:10.960 in the in the late 1700s and there is a cultural difference between east and west but you highlight

00:31:20.160 their issue that i think critical to point out and look at this from the short-term game perspective

00:31:27.520 all the things that have bowed in the last decade decades of mismanagement and and and

00:31:34.900 The subsequent governments that have created policies have, quite frankly, put behind generation, to see that change isn't a short-term gain because they're systems of a broken system.

00:31:53.440 So when you see people want to buy taxation or changes of that, it's the system that's broken.

00:32:01.180 And the system has created symptoms that attract people today, whether that be separation or statehood conversations.

00:32:11.980 Cameron, I think you were rubber banding a bit.

00:32:14.560 If we need to drop you down and bring you back up, I'm willing to do that.

00:32:18.860 I'm not sure if other people heard that, but Lee and I found it a bit Stephen Hawkins.

00:32:25.300 Yeah, he was rubber banding for me as well.

00:32:28.440 Okay, so I don't want us to lose our point.

00:32:30.660 cameron i'll drop you down and bring you back up okay buddy sorry greg no that's all right i was

00:32:36.660 i thought it was only me so i'm i'm i'm glad that uh everyone else was hearing that uh go go ahead

00:32:42.160 four seconds oh i was just gonna say that i find i find that there's a tendency in westerners and

00:32:50.260 everybody does this right like uh easterners will over exaggerate differences between themselves 0.87

00:32:57.300 and western canada to make a point uh there's a lot of hyperbole involved i've noticed that

00:33:03.400 there's a tendency of many western canadians to overemphasize their degree of ethnic heritage of

00:33:08.080 distinction from the east but as i cited in those sources and i took that source from the 2021

00:33:14.020 statistics canada census which is made up of self-reported ethnic identification so it's not

00:33:22.240 it's not necessarily genetic it's people claiming or saying that they are a certain thing so yes

00:33:28.540 did a not insignificant number of European diaspora go to the western provinces yes they did

00:33:34.640 were many of them Ukrainian sure they were were many of them German yes they were but even today

00:33:40.580 as I said 47 percent of Alberta's population is British and French so these other diasporas are

00:33:47.520 not even the majority and on a national level ukrainians are only two percent of the entire

00:33:52.260 population self-identified ukrainians germans are only eight percent of the entire population

00:33:57.480 um these cultures did not or sorry these groups did not come to define the common culture what i

00:34:03.220 would agree with you on is that the influx of american settlers most of whom were from the

00:34:07.780 american midwest they're actually around uh from indiana um they were pushed out as the germans

00:34:12.580 were colonizing that area.

00:34:15.160 A great many of them were taking advantage

00:34:16.720 of the land grants by the federal government at the time.

00:34:20.440 And this did create or germinate

00:34:22.040 at least some distinctions, culturally speaking.

00:34:25.620 Alberta today has three major cultural political influences,

00:34:29.000 and that would be Anglo-Canadians, Anglo-Americans,

00:34:31.720 and then you have your European diaspora,

00:34:33.760 such as Germans, Ukrainians, Dutch, and Poles, and so forth.

00:34:37.060 So to say that the province was sort of unanimously

00:34:39.860 of this cultural character is not exactly accurate especially when we look back to the history of

00:34:44.500 social credit especially when we look back to the founding of Edmonton and Calgary which were most

00:34:48.540 definitely not founded by Anglo-Americans they were very solidly so and to you guys's point

00:34:54.080 you might even say that the reason those cities lean left is because they're more Anglo-Canadian

00:34:59.240 because they have more of that communitarian character to them but I just wanted to push

00:35:04.020 back on the claim that Alberta was you know more so heavily defined by those other European

00:35:09.180 diasporas yeah i mean but but you know you you heard me say again you heard me say earlier like

00:35:19.260 i've i've literally lived and i've worked in all 10 and i to me regardless of how it happened

00:35:29.380 i see six or seven different regions in this country i mean the maritimes are completely

00:35:35.660 different than that from alberta then and you know you got alberta and saskatchewan is a group

00:35:41.980 you got you've got british columbia that's got a certain culture you got newfoundland which is

00:35:46.900 completely i don't know what they are over there but they're their own thing quebec is absolutely

00:35:50.980 distinct and then you got a chunk of you know ontario and and whatever so i see six cultures

00:35:57.080 i'm not interested i mean sure as a as a historian it's fascinating to try and figure out how they

00:36:03.760 came about that way but i you're you're denying a reality they are distinct and so alberta and

00:36:10.800 saskatchewan is a distinct place it's a distinct place based on how we came here when we joined

00:36:17.880 confederation who came here our climate our geography and a whole bunch of other things

00:36:24.740 uh make us a distinct region and that's why and and i'm not like i'm not again it is a divorce

00:36:30.960 right a distinct region analogy a distinct region not a distinct nation and i would never deny the

00:36:38.000 regional distinctions in canada but to suggest enough to make it a distinct east enough to make

00:36:42.480 it a distinct uh culture in a distinct nation i mean we have a different attitude towards work

00:36:48.640 we have a different attitude towards entrepreneurship we have a different

00:36:52.160 attitude towards guns and hunting and nature than somebody who lives in i don't know nova scotia

00:36:58.640 hold on couldn't you make the same argument though of could you could you not make the

00:37:03.400 same argument about the inner city of edmonton or calgary versus like rural alberta like i'm sure

00:37:09.540 you could find a lot of like you know blue-haired freaks in edmonton who are like we hate guns and

00:37:13.600 like all that sort of thing yeah yeah i i hear that's it i've i've heard that argument brought

00:37:19.200 up like where do you stop you know how how small do you get right like you do after people say that

00:37:25.220 once it's if alberta becomes within another generation we'll split alberta into half

00:37:31.500 that that's the potential i mean that's a the balkanization they call it right how small do

00:37:36.540 you get and i don't have an answer for that i really don't but i can but as a starting point

00:37:43.140 i i can see big regions right now i think an interesting i think go ahead this is a bit of

00:37:50.680 oversimplification at the same time like as has just been pointed out there's differences between

00:37:55.900 rural areas of the country and metropolitan areas of the country like uh uh you know someone uh from

00:38:03.640 metropolitan calgary might have much more in common with someone from metropolitan toronto

00:38:07.620 and someone from rural ontario might have much more in common with someone from uh from rural

00:38:13.660 alberta there there are regional differences there are rural metropolitan divides across

00:38:20.500 this country but at the end of the day i think there's a lot more that brings us together than

00:38:24.620 brings us apart uh like if you compare i've done my a fair amount of traveling around the country

00:38:30.400 as well and while there are differences we still broadly have this similar lived experiences

00:38:37.780 especially compared to people from other countries um there's definitely a shared nation and that is

00:38:44.620 to say nation in the purest sense of the world word of people with a shade heritage that have

00:38:50.480 been you know uh defined and changed over generations of living in different geographies

00:38:57.100 and different climates and so on um but at the the end of the day we're still rooted in that

00:39:03.220 shared heritage as a people. And I think protecting that and having a state that

00:39:09.640 represents the interests of that is what's most crucial. Another consistent thread here

00:39:18.340 seems to be that there is a systemic dysfunction in the roots of confederation.

00:39:27.980 And while I think that the Canadian state has been very dysfunctional for generations now, I think the bigger issue is our shared identity crisis, which has more been caused as a result of the influence of the dominance of the American global hegemon.

00:39:57.980 particularly impacting us due to our geographic situation being so close to them, creating these economic ties that has dramatically influenced our culture, creating a profound identity crisis across the country,

00:40:17.620 which has manifested in a government that has embraced a style of liberalism that doesn't represent the Canadian ethnos anymore.

00:40:34.180 And the people are detached from that problem. And to find a solution, we need to kind of return to our roots, return to those principles of peace, order, and good governance in order to have a sort of national renaissance.

00:40:56.180 if i could on on that note uh daniel the the notion of peace order and and good governance

00:41:08.360 is uh shorthand for take what we give you and fall in line to the west the rest of western

00:41:15.080 canada and it's not well the the fundamental challenge here is that a a failure to recognize

00:41:24.520 the system itself was designed to utilize western canada as a resource pool or resource colony

00:41:33.700 and the lack of desire in eastern canada to relinquish and create an equal effective and

00:41:43.140 elected senate or changing the judicial system or changing a parliamentary democracy like 30 other

00:41:52.360 members of the commonwealth have to a constitutional republic devolution of powers

00:41:58.080 from quebec and ontario to the rest of canada there has been absolutely zero

00:42:03.680 interest in west in the rest of canada to do that i don't see that changing and so that's

00:42:12.860 that where a desire to change the system by leaving it comes from in the west

00:42:18.560 but i think the real practical problems are are poor leadership poor governance i think if we

00:42:28.840 didn't have a government that was infringing on firearms ownership if we didn't have a government

00:42:35.520 systematically trying to destroy the economy of the western provinces and instead enabled their

00:42:45.140 flourishing that western alienation would not be uh a concept uh i think if we had good governance

00:42:52.920 in this country there would be no there would be uh no issue with western alienation so just to

00:42:58.200 clarify sorry just to clarify what daniel was saying so just to kind of simplify it for people

00:43:03.560 because you know i'm trying to follow here essentially daniel what you're saying is that

00:43:07.960 the sort of alienation of alberta and this sort of uh using them for resources and kind of uh

00:43:15.500 taking them out of the conversation or disempowering them in ottawa is actually not how

00:43:20.280 the system is designed but it's more just how the actual politicians themselves like make their

00:43:25.820 decisions like it's not it's not part of the system but it's actually just the individuals

00:43:30.220 in the systems who are kind of imposing this or kind of creating this uh disadvantage and

00:43:35.540 disenfranchisement uh to the west is that a good simplification

00:43:39.520 sure it's bad leadership so i also i also wanted to push back uh cameron namely that actually were

00:43:49.960 two attempts at rectifying this situation and those two attempts were meech lake and charlottetown

00:43:55.300 and they were spearheaded by the east the east did try to fix the constitutional problems and the

00:44:02.000 power balance in the entire country and both attempts failed because all parties involved

00:44:07.440 basically screwed the pooch so we did attempt and the last attempt was Charlottetown in 1992 0.52

00:44:15.200 it ends up that Manitoba and it was either Manitoba and PEI or Manitoba and Newfoundland

00:44:23.020 who didn't sign or didn't ratify the changes but they were effectively torpedoed by everybody

00:44:28.740 involved like all premiers were cutthroat all premiers were out for their own provinces

00:44:33.260 uh there were attempts so to say that there was no attempt to ever at any point acquiesce to the

00:44:39.060 west that's not exactly accurate and and and just to that point um without devolving into

00:44:46.620 Meech Lake and Charlotte and Accords and and the details whether that was entirely favorable to

00:44:52.380 the West or not on all sides is another debate. But what I would say to Daniel's point, particularly

00:44:59.440 on the politicians we elect being the problem, not the system of government, I would challenge that

00:45:06.200 because the system of government has allowed multiple elected cycles to bring us politicians

00:45:14.260 predominantly supported by the East who have done exactly that. The attacks on industry, the attacks 0.98

00:45:20.780 on on our way of life and the things that make the west in a unique and distinct culture and

00:45:28.780 that's that's a system problem it's not just elected officials it's a system that allows

00:45:33.740 those types of politicians to continually be elected and that's what's broken in canada

00:45:38.560 i just wanted to take a minute here and interrupt us there's some people in the comments um we will

00:45:44.300 be opening the mic after a while after the debate has uh kind of wrapped up and we'll be opening

00:45:49.800 the floor okay thank you um i'm breaking up i might have to drop and come back but i want to

00:45:58.320 ask one question from uh either danielle or four sacks like oh you got a partner in confederation

00:46:06.240 who's unhappy why do you want alberta to stay what do i want alberta to stay because at the end of

00:46:14.500 the day regardless about whether or not we sling poo at each other albertans are canadians god

00:46:21.900 damn it we're part of the same family we're we we're part of the same nation okay most the vast

00:46:28.040 majority of westerners come from back east you yourself included you're a 12th generation franco 0.99

00:46:32.860 albertan your family would have gone the same time anthony hende was exploring the saskatchewan river

00:46:37.720 and because you're a descendant of the feeds of law that makes you and i probably distant cousins

00:46:42.100 And that's not even a joke because of how small the French-Canadian population was at that time.

00:46:47.920 If you take a DNA test from somebody from Nova Scotia and you take a DNA test from somebody from Nova Scotia.

00:46:52.620 You didn't answer the question.

00:46:54.080 So you want us to stay just because we're Canadians or are you afraid of breaking up the country or what's in it for you?

00:46:59.880 Like why would you want an unhappy partner to stay?

00:47:04.920 Do you know why Confederation was formed or one of the main reasons?

00:47:08.040 yeah to run a railroad across the country so that so or to pillage land in alberta and to

00:47:16.520 enrich the pockets of people out east okay so after the american civil war part of the motivation for

00:47:24.520 uniting into a confederation was to save off american expansionism actually this was the

00:47:29.200 primary reason one of them uh and the fact of the matter is that the u.s and the union army was

00:47:33.680 massive and they were at many points in our history looking to deprive us of our sovereignty

00:47:39.680 you might even say austerity for ourselves and our children maybe that's more preferable

00:47:44.260 in your language the fact of the matter is we are too small of a population we're too small

00:47:51.580 provinces and we're better off united if sovereignty is your goal if maintaining

00:47:57.780 your independence and your quality of life for foreign oppressors be they american or chinese

00:48:02.480 or russian or whatever uh you know what i mean if you value that then the canadian path forward

00:48:08.480 is the best path forward that's why i want alberta to stay because i don't want to see alberta subsumed 0.99

00:48:14.200 by global powers i don't want to see alberta subsumed and as a consequence weakening everybody

00:48:19.760 else in the confederation if they do so and i am against quebec separation for the same reason

00:48:24.340 although obviously i'm sympathetic to it for for similar reasons but what i say no is it is it good

00:48:29.020 if we all break up and then we're gobbled up

00:48:31.040 by the states or the Chinese or the Russians?

00:48:33.000 No, of course not.

00:48:39.440 One thing I kind of wanted to address.

00:48:41.080 Okay, that's a valid answer.

00:48:42.840 No, go ahead, Marty.

00:48:45.680 No, no, at least he got to a good part of it.

00:48:49.660 I can accept that, the fear that

00:48:52.500 the violence of the kinds of bands

00:48:56.600 I like to hear from people.

00:48:58.020 I mean, the follow-up to that would be, you know, why do you want us to stay?

00:49:03.860 And if we're about to that, that would be the follow-up.

00:49:08.340 But maybe let's move on and, you know, I'll wave so you guys can.

00:49:20.240 Is Marty choppy for other people as well?

00:49:25.520 He's going to drop and leave.

00:49:28.020 okay uh hopefully marty can join us uh if you want to drop out for a sec marty then then join

00:49:33.800 us back in uh hopefully we can work out your technique oh he's back in as a listener um

00:49:39.460 i'll just while i have the mic now i'll just say that i feel like a sort of thing that we've sort

00:49:44.800 of agreed upon uh that is also a kind of a parallel conversation in the states is there's a lot of

00:49:51.180 people pushing in america and even who are part of uh mega who are saying well the nation is actually

00:49:57.400 just a paragraph it's just an idea it's just an economic zone and especially the loyalists here

00:50:03.640 in canada are pushing this idea well actually the nation is a people it's a people that has a

00:50:09.600 specific history ancestry and ethnic uh makeup and i guess i'm curious if the uh the separatists

00:50:16.840 believe in that uh it sounds like you do but but but i feel like that's that's kind of the main

00:50:23.140 emphasis or kind of uniting uh thrusts uh of the loyalist side here i don't know if we're going to

00:50:29.860 get uh marty back but cameron did you want to say anything about that have you have you noticed this

00:50:34.740 sort of uh pushing in america as well of well america is just a paragraph it's just an idea

00:50:40.580 and anybody who works hard can show up and become american even if they are from uh sri lanka

00:50:46.000 you sound like pierre pauliev anyone from anywhere can do anything

00:50:54.200 i mean a canadian is a canadian i i i think for for a sax and i've had this have this

00:51:03.800 conversation here already tonight that that we both hold uh similar views just with the belief

00:51:10.100 that eastern canada is fundamentally different than western canada and the people that make it 1.00

00:51:15.540 up and why we came here and where we came from might have some similarities, but why we came

00:51:21.600 here and why we chose the West versus the safe, stable, secure environment of the East

00:51:27.860 for generations makes us very different people and who we are and how we view government and

00:51:32.640 how we view the interaction of government with the people and how we want to be represented

00:51:37.320 and the policies that we want to see, you know, coming into place by whoever is elected

00:51:43.640 in the east unfortunately um and how that affects us all so i think we see we see it from two

00:51:49.440 different sides but but with a similar um note of that the people and the makeup effectively

00:51:56.160 challenge who you who you are and what you are as a nation so i mean what comes to mind for me when

00:52:01.980 you say this stuff is if i were to talk to a texan a rural texan versus you know someone in new york

00:52:07.960 state or even someone in chicago um you know and going into middle america like you know there's a

00:52:13.940 lot of different types of people uh who would sure they'd be both be part of america but like

00:52:19.540 they would have speak differently have different dialects have different kind of cultural practices

00:52:24.980 you know the guy from texas would know how to lasso uh a bull or something and you know the

00:52:32.460 The guy in New York is really good at making a mean latte.

00:52:36.640 So, you know, like how does that same sort of differentiation like not apply to Canada?

00:52:41.800 Like why can't we still be a nation united with different regions, with different people, the same way that the United States are?

00:52:50.820 Because the system in Canada does not permit equality amongst the provinces.

00:52:56.540 so so why would you why would you stay in an unequal relationship

00:53:04.520 do any of the loyalists want to respond to that

00:53:09.420 i i i don't know like i think we're all uh unhappy with the current governance of canada

00:53:17.980 regardless of which area of the country that we live in i think we have a good cross-section

00:53:23.500 uh across this panel but also throughout the our audience um and i believe the one thing we all

00:53:32.260 share in common is that we're dissatisfied with current and recent government for a variety of

00:53:38.460 reasons um you can frame it as inequality between the provinces but i don't think that that's an

00:53:47.840 accurate description of why like i think that's a very slanted description of the poor governance

00:53:55.880 that we've been seeing for the last few decades um not even just to limit it to justin trudeau

00:54:02.160 or or whatnot um so again i i think we can reorient uh our government if we're we're better

00:54:10.960 organized uh if we uh push for our the the kind of philosophy and realignment that we expect as

00:54:21.440 citizens um and we're organized and we use the institutions and parties as mechanisms to our own

00:54:29.360 ends uh and have more intention intention in how we seek our politics that we can create the change

00:54:37.040 that we want to see in this country uh because i believe our a lot of our ideas are objectively

00:54:43.360 correct and are objectively in the best interest of this country um and to just uh you know to to

00:54:50.480 say we're just gonna leave is a very oversimplified solution as well because i can see a lot of the

00:54:56.720 same problems or uh in even a whole slew of new ones uh coming towards uh an independent alberta

00:55:04.880 or or whatnot uh i think that's a poorly thought out uh solution to this problem and i do want to

00:55:12.980 get into that i'm sorry i do want to kind of get into questioning the uh you know the potential

00:55:19.440 problems of alberta becoming independent or the path towards um the path towards becoming part

00:55:25.320 of america you know like why would being subjugated by washington dc be any be any better there's a

00:55:30.400 lot of potential pitfalls of just being exploited by another uh group of bureaucrats but before we

00:55:35.540 get into that i want to ask cameron or marty uh speaking of like you know the system here doesn't

00:55:40.520 work we want a state system uh putting the system in the states aside is there any sort of uh fixes

00:55:48.160 that you would like to see in the current canadian system that you think would solve

00:55:53.840 these problems or or or to put it another way is there anything very very clear uh in the system

00:56:00.060 that you don't like uh that is just totally unacceptable to you uh in canada right now

00:56:05.200 yeah well i mean you know a really big step would be to at least um function the way confederation

00:56:16.800 was intended you know because confederation was not instead intended as a parent child

00:56:21.480 relationship with ottawa telling the provinces what to do it was intended as a as a true partnership

00:56:27.640 with a very defined separation of duties.

00:56:32.820 And something happened in the last 40 or 50 years

00:56:36.080 where we went to that child-parent relationship.

00:56:39.040 And if we go back to the way it was designed,

00:56:41.000 so we mentioned gun laws, for instance,

00:56:43.640 or we mentioned resource development.

00:56:46.180 I mean, the fact that Ottawa is literally imposing bans

00:56:50.580 that prevent us from producing our own oil

00:56:53.200 or forcing us to adopt a net zero policy for our own electric grid, things like that.

00:56:59.420 I mean, if we did that in the short term, then you'd make my life difficult

00:57:06.780 because, you know, I'm going to be honest.

00:57:09.140 I mean, my position on Alberta independence is not favored in Alberta.

00:57:15.920 I mean, there's still a good chunk of Albertans that came here in the last 40 years

00:57:19.800 that are very loyal to Canada.

00:57:21.340 And if you want to win them back over, then, yeah, just get Ottawa to back off

00:57:26.620 and give the powers back to the problem.

00:57:29.580 Healthcare is another example.

00:57:31.260 I mean, we literally had to accept certain things during COVID just to get our own money back

00:57:37.520 because we send money to Ottawa who then doles it back out to us.

00:57:41.080 Healthcare is a provincial jurisdiction, no more, no less.

00:57:45.660 And now we got Ottawa doing, you know, dental care and Medicare and pharmacare and everything else.

00:57:50.700 So just bring it back to the way it was, and you'll buy the country at least another 30 years.

00:57:57.040 And I'll just add to that.

00:57:58.300 I learned today that the police, you guys rely on the RCMP for that, right?

00:58:05.860 Well, that's correct.

00:58:08.340 That was their choice.

00:58:09.880 There's been numerous attempts to down that road.

00:58:13.740 Fortunately, there's a president's lack of political just to rip the off.

00:58:18.000 but back to the original question

00:58:19.940 as far as the solution.

00:58:21.480 Cameron, you're rubber banding again.

00:58:26.940 I mean,

00:58:27.860 try for another 5-10 seconds

00:58:29.960 and let's see if it works.

00:58:32.880 Oh, he dropped.

00:58:33.780 He's back. Is he back?

00:58:36.300 Do we got him back up here?

00:58:37.880 Or he's gone? 0.99

00:58:39.700 Shoot.

00:58:42.400 Looks like he dropped down for a minute. 0.98

00:58:45.840 Okay.

00:58:46.280 hopefully he'll he'll uh figure his stuff out do you want to jump in for now yeah jump in for the

00:58:51.180 moment yeah just to go back to marty's point on this kind of parent child or paternalistic approach

00:58:57.240 from the government um i i ironically i think while while i completely see his point in in

00:59:05.860 some issues that is a problem i think as much as it's a problem it's there's also an almost a lack

00:59:13.820 of that attitude coming out of the government. When it comes to things like pipelines, like we

00:59:20.540 haven't had the federal government being fatherly paternalistic enough to impose pipelines across

00:59:29.000 the country. Sometimes we do need the government just as the federal government to just step in

00:59:35.540 and step on provinces in order to get stuff done. The same thing goes for interprovincial trade. 0.55

00:59:41.360 there's been numerous efforts to hammer out a free trade deal across the country but we fall

00:59:48.880 in this game theory problem where yes we'd all be better off if we just traded internally but then

00:59:55.080 one province steps up and they they have one little problem and then oh if that guy's gonna

01:00:00.520 complain about one thing then all sorts of interests start coming up and then we leave

01:00:05.660 the table and there's still no free trade within this country so while the government has definitely

01:00:11.520 stepped on the jurisdictions of the provinces a lot it also hasn't done it enough it's kind of

01:00:19.900 a weird problem where it's a problem but also a solution depending on on the area and again it

01:00:27.680 comes back to this thing we just we need a government that just does what is necessary

01:00:33.080 for the benefit of our people from coast to coast.

01:00:38.360 Good governance and strong leadership is the solution.

01:00:44.620 So am I back yet now?

01:00:47.180 You sound great, yep.

01:00:49.760 Great.

01:00:50.360 So there's been no discussion to the system.

01:00:54.700 We can't even figure out how to get equal elected 0.60

01:00:57.120 and effective senators in this country.

01:00:59.060 okay so

01:01:02.860 and and so we talk about the policies of various governments back and forth

01:01:09.620 but until you can solve equal elected and effective senators

01:01:13.960 you will always have an imbalance of power between the east and the west

01:01:23.620 how many seats does wyoming have at the electoral college and this and the u.s senate

01:01:28.180 they have the same number of senators as california

01:01:34.060 okay but they don't have the same number of electoral votes

01:01:39.200 there are 100 senators wyoming has the same number of senators as california

01:01:45.180 but they don't have 60 plus majority to pass legislation in the senate the point i'm trying

01:01:51.940 the highlight here is that not even the u.s has that level of representation for the smaller

01:01:58.620 states that you're suggesting and to some degree there will be a power imbalance that's just a

01:02:05.940 fact of life texas is going to be more important than oklahoma you're you're conflating mean

01:02:11.500 you're you're conflating a legislative lower house with an upper house

01:02:15.860 our legislative upper house is imbalanced it's not equal it's not effective oh i'm aware of that

01:02:22.460 but what i am saying you know i mean a common point from many western separatists is uh you

01:02:28.780 know elections are already decided by the east and when we're in alberta they it doesn't matter

01:02:33.480 waiting for the for the writings to come in or waiting for the votes casted in the writings

01:02:37.860 um and there's certainly some truth to that um but my point here is to highlight that not even

01:02:43.800 in the US system that everybody is proposing is as equal as you're suggesting here. And I find it

01:02:49.840 curious that many points to the US system as a foundation or as an example, when even those

01:02:56.860 little states do not have as much representation on a federal level. So, you know, I don't know.

01:03:01.940 I think without pointing to the states, we can look at 30 other Commonwealth nations

01:03:06.660 that have chosen a constitutional republic style

01:03:11.120 which does have an equal upper and lower house.

01:03:15.660 Lower house is by population.

01:03:17.640 The upper house is distributed equally

01:03:21.080 so that regions of your country are represented

01:03:24.120 at least in some fashion with an equal voice.

01:03:32.000 Okay.

01:03:36.660 an equal elected and effective Senate would certainly go a long way to solving some of the

01:03:54.160 problems that Canada has. Without diving into how Eastern Canada views issues in the West,

01:04:02.800 I think a Senate that at least was somewhat equitable would provide a sense within Alberta to look at it and say, well, at least we have a fair shot at expressing our views within Confederation.

01:04:21.480 I'm not entirely certain that it would solve all of the problems, but it would be a great first step.

01:04:27.740 uh fortisax or uh daniel did you want to jump in

01:04:33.740 i'm not particularly passionate about uh senate reform it's not uh an area of expertise by by any

01:04:46.140 means uh i'd definitely be be open to uh changes and it's run but i don't think this is the the

01:04:54.180 the root of of the problems that we can agree upon uh i i don't think the the senate is a very um

01:05:03.620 influential body uh i think it largely goes to rubber stamp things um i don't think any of the

01:05:12.340 recent decisions that have negatively infected the west have you know originated or been aggravated

01:05:19.460 by the senate um i i think it comes back to to issues of uh of leadership right it's it's justin

01:05:29.060 trudeau's um uh uh leadership and policies that have negatively affected uh the resource sector

01:05:39.300 and the albertan economy um and uh the the makeup of the senate would have uh i don't think it would

01:05:48.660 have stopped uh these policies from from being bloody um but uh i'd have to look at you know

01:06:00.000 the voting record of these these bills and if there were slim uh just bills that passed by slim

01:06:07.400 margins that have been changed by the by the makeup of the senate um the fact of the matter

01:06:12.760 is that the canadian senate is nowhere near as powerful in decision making as the american

01:06:17.340 senate is like it's not it's not even really that influential of a body which is why people don't

01:06:21.540 really care about it um it's probably also honestly why uh elected senators haven't been

01:06:28.860 instituted because if it was that powerful there'd be more of an incentive to reform it

01:06:33.640 to have elected senators like a place like the states so i i it's an odd priority it almost

01:06:39.760 seems like rhetoric uh from the from the 70s and the 80s uh this sort of uh emphasis on on

01:06:45.680 unequal senate treatment when there are much more pressing issues in my view uh and i would agree

01:06:50.400 with daniel that i feel that western alienation is primarily the consequence of laurentian elite

01:06:58.400 kneecapping uh alberta's ability to make money alberta's ability to raise the standard of living 0.98

01:07:04.240 and provide goods and services and uh for its people i i'm not so sure the the senate or why

01:07:10.960 why the Senate is such a sort of important focus.

01:07:14.900 So I just have one question and then I may have to bounce off the call here tonight, Greg.

01:07:20.920 But my question for the loyalist side of this discussion is if Quebec and Ontario,

01:07:28.760 and God forbid this happens, but if Quebec and Ontario in this election that's coming up here shortly

01:07:35.240 and the Laurentian elite decide to double down again

01:07:39.880 and select another five-year WEF-sponsored Trudeau-Carney liberal government,

01:07:48.740 why should Alberta stick around and see what happens for another five years of this? 1.00

01:07:56.620 Sure. I'll give you my answer first.

01:08:00.040 First and foremost, I think that Canadian liberalism is dead.

01:08:03.760 I don't think they have anything.

01:08:05.840 I don't think that the pillars of their foundational beliefs are going to last much longer.

01:08:11.480 I believe that there are both internal and external pressures that are forcing them, obviously, from inside and outside to reform and or stabilize the country.

01:08:23.360 You know, the National Bank of Canada just announced that we went through a lost decade.

01:08:28.040 There's been almost negligible economic growth since 2014.

01:08:31.280 This is obviously a problem because we flooded the country with 5 million people in the short span of four and a half years, thinking that it would raise the GDP.

01:08:41.220 Instead, it actually collapsed the GDP per capita for the average Canadian.

01:08:45.200 The economy is not bigger, and now inflation and cost of living and food and so forth is sky high.

01:08:51.620 It's higher than what it would be.

01:08:54.480 So I'm not confident that the Laurentian elite, even if they want to, is going to be able to achieve the goals that they're claiming.

01:09:06.260 This gun ban, this gun prohibition thing, this is not going to happen.

01:09:10.960 They can ban them all they want.

01:09:12.660 The fact of the matter, for example, is that since 2020, approximately 20 guns have been handed in to the police.

01:09:18.900 Canadians are not complying.

01:09:20.420 Canada is the sixth most armed country on the planet.

01:09:25.460 So, you know, they push this carbon stuff, but the country on a federal level is already ripping at the seams.

01:09:31.860 And I suspect this is why some of the liberals are walking back a lot of their rhetoric.

01:09:38.080 You know, they're playing pretend nationalists.

01:09:40.620 This is why Carney is invoking McDonald and why Carney is invoking the Anglo-French heritage of the country.

01:09:47.300 At the top level, they're putting the woke away because they're losing.

01:09:51.080 And this is a global phenomenon.

01:09:53.300 Liberalism is losing.

01:09:54.480 the left liberal ideology of these people going back 60 odd years is on the decline

01:10:00.960 i believe that alberta should stay in canada because i think that very soon there will be

01:10:08.240 alternatives there will be better right-wing alternatives to the ppc and the cpc uh if you

01:10:14.560 look at charts of the youth you look at demographic charts of who votes for what the youth are the

01:10:21.040 most conservative in history um the fact of the matter is that canadian youth are actually more

01:10:25.600 right-wing than their grandparents now i don't know about you but my granddad was pretty right-wing

01:10:32.320 uh and he made make quite a few off-color remarks so don't i guess my message in this is don't give

01:10:38.240 up hope because this isn't going to last forever nothing bad ever lasts forever the reign of these

01:10:43.120 tyrants is coming to an end whether they like it or not they don't have the demographic support

01:10:48.000 the only people who vote for them are effectively foreigners and old people um it's it's pensioners 1.00

01:10:52.880 it's 65 plus uh and it's recent immigrants who feel a sense of gratitude to the liberal party

01:10:59.040 for granting them entry so that's why i would say why should alberta stay because things are going

01:11:03.280 to look up inevitably there's there's no logistic physical chance for this to continue

01:11:10.800 or persist the way that it is going

01:11:12.320 just to hop in real quick i'm going to try to get something in the nest here

01:11:18.560 uh which marty actually tweeted which kind of supports i put it in there

01:11:24.020 yeah thank you um it's in there greg and it's just to support what fortisac said in terms of

01:11:29.680 the younger generation being very conservative and as they say the children the young people

01:11:33.940 are the future so it is it is quite promising and uh just on a more of a sentimental note

01:11:39.360 I think a lot of seeds were planted in this country since COVID and the trucker convoy, and they're still growing.

01:11:46.540 I think those seeds are still growing.

01:11:47.840 It's going to take some time, but I certainly agree with the sentiment of Fortisac that good things are coming.

01:11:56.600 The pendulum is slowly.

01:11:58.700 It just stopped.

01:11:59.740 It swung to the left, and it's starting to gain momentum in the other direction.

01:12:04.020 but uh Cameron you said you had to I want to hear if Daniel has anything to say but Cameron you said

01:12:09.000 you had to go soon is there anything that you wanted to uh um do you want Daniel to speak

01:12:14.740 first or would you like to jump in now Cameron I'll just wrap up with 30 30 seconds here Greg

01:12:22.540 sure may my fundamental belief is that Alberta is in a toxic and abusive relationship with 1.00

01:12:31.100 eastern canada particularly ottawa and the laurentian elite and we need a divorce and we need

01:12:39.300 out and we need to forge our own path and seek self-determination as soon as possible

01:12:44.960 and and by doing that we might be able to help the rest of canada and i think the rest of canada

01:12:53.680 will have to take a look at what that means and how they want to chart their path but alberta's

01:13:00.100 path needs to be going alone all right well thanks thanks for uh thanks for hopping on

01:13:07.780 cameron for those listening it's real cam davies on twitter um and i certainly agree with the

01:13:15.060 sentiment that that this whole 51st state talk is a is a great sort of jumping off point to

01:13:19.920 reinvigorate canadian nationalism you know and i think that even the threat of alberta separating

01:13:26.560 is also sort of a great sort of leverage point

01:13:29.340 to try to usurp more influence and power in Ottawa

01:13:33.440 and to kind of like give the country a shake,

01:13:35.720 like the threat of breaking apart

01:13:37.460 is certainly something to,

01:13:40.200 well, it has people paying attention.

01:13:42.000 And I'd be curious what the loyalists think of this.

01:13:44.740 It's kind of been alluded to and talked about briefly,

01:13:46.640 but the amount of leverage that Quebec seems to have

01:13:50.380 over the rest of the country

01:13:51.360 is certainly something that Alberta and the West

01:13:54.720 has to deal with.

01:13:55.480 But I just saw that Harrison, Harrison Faulkner jumped into the space.

01:14:01.580 I know he doesn't have that much time, but Harrison, have you been listening?

01:14:05.100 Did you want to sort of share your thoughts on what's the best path forward for Canada?

01:14:11.880 Should we become part of America or should we try to reclaim our institutions?

01:14:19.140 We certainly shouldn't become part of the U.S.

01:14:21.400 And obviously reclaiming our institutions. I've been listening and my main concern and my main focus is on preserving Canada.

01:14:37.380 Now, I have heard from the Alberta separatist side of this debate issues with confederation that are easy to understand and sympathize with.

01:14:49.460 And I've heard proposed solutions that would make it much better.

01:14:53.960 And then after hearing these solutions, they then say, well, that's why we need to leave, not try to work on achieving those solutions.

01:15:03.200 And the way I see it is, Canada needs to have Alberta because Alberta makes Canada very wealthy, and Alberta has natural resources that are very important to Canada and very important to Alberta.

01:15:19.060 Alberta needs Canada for a number of reasons, but mainly because the Canadian government allows Alberta to sell their resources to the global market.

01:15:34.640 It brings global trade to Alberta, and it also provides a social safety net, which keeps Albertans doing well.

01:15:45.340 Now, there are serious issues with Confederation, and Alberta is not the only region that has major issues with Confederation.

01:15:54.240 And they need to be brought forward and discussed and debated.

01:15:58.160 But you don't do that by having a defeatist attitude, where once you lay out all the things that would make you essentially drop your position,

01:16:07.120 And I think Marty alluded to that, that if Canada allowed, you know, Alberta resources to go to market and got rid of this ideology, this keep it in the ground ideology, and allowed for Albertans to have their firearms and gave them more autonomy under Confederation, I think you said that you would basically have a very difficult argument on your hand.

01:16:26.580 if Alberta were to separate, the immediate problems would be significant and the long-term

01:16:33.380 ones would be significant as well. For one, it's a major national security threat because

01:16:36.920 you either separate and then still remain entirely under the control of the Canadian 0.98

01:16:41.840 government for national security, for all these other issues, or Alberta separates and is left

01:16:48.140 entirely on its own with no established resources to engage diplomatically, engage in the world

01:16:58.220 stage, bring your resources to market. These things work together and long-term solutions

01:17:05.100 need to be hashed out to make it better. But by having a defeatist attitude, it's completely

01:17:09.700 useless to this conversation. If you bring up reasons as to how this can be better solved

01:17:16.420 and how Alberta can be better served, then let's go and try to find ways to put those into action.

01:17:22.380 This seems to me to be an issue with ideology.

01:17:25.240 This seems to be primarily driven by Trudeau government ideology.

01:17:30.220 And these things come and go.

01:17:32.900 Now, Quebec had serious issues with Confederation,

01:17:35.880 and they managed to basically put themselves in complete control of the situation.

01:17:40.960 They didn't give up. They nearly did, but they didn't give up.

01:17:43.680 And now they're basically in command of the situation.

01:17:45.980 Alberta can do the same thing 1.00

01:17:47.620 Because if Alberta prospers, the rest of Canada does

01:17:50.020 And it goes both ways

01:17:51.500 So I just don't see this defeatist attitude

01:17:53.920 Helping anyone

01:17:54.740 It's not helping Alberta

01:17:56.040 Because long and short term consequences would be significant

01:17:59.320 And it's not helping the country

01:18:00.680 My main concern and my hope

01:18:02.380 Is that this country stays together

01:18:04.200 Because if it is together

01:18:05.240 We can be very strong and very rich

01:18:08.380 Because resources go both ways in this country

01:18:10.960 That's what I've got to say

01:18:12.900 Thank you Harrison

01:18:15.640 unfortunately Marty it looks like Marty dropped out but I certainly want to hear sort of a little

01:18:22.100 bit more of the specifics of because you know everyone gets kind of like carried away with

01:18:26.920 this conversation we want a constitution screw the monarchy and like it goes in all these different

01:18:30.720 directions but I really want to like paint a picture for people like what the path forward

01:18:34.640 looks like Marty I see you're back in here uh did you hear all of Harrison's statement yeah I heard

01:18:40.400 it i i just wanted to add one thing to what harrison said like you know we're defeatist

01:18:45.040 christ man defeatist like after 157 years of getting the kicked out of you and making request

01:18:51.160 after request after request even yesterday when carney came to visit here danielle smith made

01:18:56.920 requests and carney basically blew them off and walked away and the and then the mainstream media

01:19:01.900 and everybody else shit on us for for for for suddenly you know demanding a fair treatment like 0.70

01:19:08.460 we're we're defeatist because we've been kicked down this road for so long man like it's not 0.83

01:19:14.700 this is not a new thing somebody else mentioned it earlier like Meech Lake was a failure

01:19:19.220 and and all sorts of previous failures this is not a new problem this is not something like

01:19:24.860 we brought up the solutions and the solutions are constantly ignored and somebody else earlier

01:19:30.220 talked about yeah do I agree that Trudeau is an aberration absolutely he's an aberration he made

01:19:35.200 things a lot worse but somebody telling me keep your fingers crossed there's a tide turning and

01:19:41.640 we're going to get in a new guy like i don't get to choose the new guy because when i turn on the

01:19:47.500 the when i finally start to see the results of the election at 6 p.m it's already decided so

01:19:53.400 it makes us nervous i'm not going to like keep your fingers crossed is not a strategy that the

01:19:59.620 next guy is going to be better like i i don't buy that it's easy for you guys to say we're defeatist

01:20:04.800 and this and that but we've been abused in this relationship and you're right you guys are

01:20:09.480 benefiting man like i've i've tweeted at this extensively like the transfer payments that are

01:20:15.380 going out there they over can like we are disproportionately talented to all sorts of 0.99

01:20:21.980 programs and we get shit on all day are you still there murty you said we get shit on all day was 0.97

01:20:32.360 the last thing we heard yeah yeah i'm there like uh like i just i just it's it's it's tiring to 0.98

01:20:39.360 have people tell us that they you know be part of team canada the last three weeks man there is no

01:20:45.760 team like you guys like the rest of canada almost forced us actually i shouldn't say almost they're

01:20:51.820 in the process of doing it and it might happen literally you want us to not sell our resources

01:20:57.260 to the to the u.s to be part of team canada there's no benefit for like i'll take my chances

01:21:04.480 on a small on being a smaller nation i don't need the protection of everybody else i don't

01:21:09.780 buy that argument i don't buy it one bit did any of the loyalists want to uh jump in and respond

01:21:16.620 to that harrison did you want to say anything uh or tyree i see your hands up i and thank you for

01:21:23.380 sharing that marty that was a very uh you know passionate uh testimony and i'm sure you represent

01:21:27.940 how a lot of albertans feel uh we've been shit kicked for years we're tired of this and crossing 0.76

01:21:34.560 our fingers doesn't really sound like uh much of a solution um harrison i know that uh did did

01:21:42.980 daniel or harrison want to jump in here well i'll just quickly jump in and then i'll i'll let daniel

01:21:50.700 take it over because it is uh it is their debate i'll just say an alberta being on its own and a 0.97

01:21:58.300 separated alberta makes canada weaker and it makes alberta weaker now if this this shit kicking that 0.74

01:22:06.320 albertans have been feeling is true it's accurate but it can stop basically what i what i gather 0.90

01:22:13.260 is that alberta wants to have wants to have more equal treatment in the equalization payments

01:22:19.760 They want to be able to get all of their resources to market without this green ideology stopping these issues.

01:22:27.660 And they just generally want to have more of a say in their long-term destiny.

01:22:33.240 That can all be achieved under Confederation, and these ideologies go.

01:22:38.900 So this seems to me to really be an issue under this Trudeau government and in previous liberal governments.

01:22:49.760 And, frankly, I think the idea that Alberta will be fine on its own is a fake.

01:22:57.820 And if Alberta were to separate, Alberta would still be expecting Canada to defend Alberta, to protect Alberta's political sovereignty.

01:23:07.500 How do you guarantee that political elections in Alberta won't be compromised without some sort of control and oversight from Canada?

01:23:17.520 And how obviously our systems are not great either. But this seems to be an issue with ideology, not with the system, because ideological solutions have been raised here.

01:23:28.680 And once the solutions are raised, then the next statement is that's why we have to leave. Not we need to win ideological debate and actually prosper from it.

01:23:38.240 That's what I that's what I see here. It's it's it's an issue of ideology, not of the system.

01:23:43.380 i'll just hop in on that and um you know because i see a lot of conversations going on

01:23:50.900 of the poor pitiful state of this country and i think we we're all here kind of for that we

01:23:56.700 share that kind of sentiment and i always because when people see a quick solution i'm always like

01:24:02.620 well have we actually confronted has like my worry for separatists for people who just want to you

01:24:09.980 know try and join america or for alberta to be independent is i worry of well what's the next

01:24:16.800 basket of problems going to look like you know and the path forward we didn't really get into this

01:24:22.940 and it because it might get really deep into the weeds but uh like i'm curious like what the path

01:24:28.160 forward would actually be to like you know let's say carney gets in and everyone in alberta is

01:24:33.000 pissed and they want to separate like like what would that meaningfully look like and what would

01:24:38.560 the set of challenges be and for me i feel like the underlying sort of common denominator of

01:24:44.480 solving the problems is we need more like patriotic canadians who are willing to put in like the

01:24:51.280 white collar work of politicking you know and i i get the frustration of albertans but at the same

01:24:58.440 time it's like how many albertans have just kind of like shut their mouths and just like agreed

01:25:03.220 with the conservative party of canada and pierre polyev uh without kind of like pushing back

01:25:07.780 um against their sort of weakness not being stronger to be the opposition to the liberals

01:25:12.820 although a little a lot of my bias is coming through now but i just kind of wanted to to

01:25:17.780 share that i definitely want to get uh jason levine's thoughts because i know you're out

01:25:23.300 west sir and you have a kind of a good pulse on how alberta feels but first maybe we'll go to uh

01:25:28.560 daniel tyree you've had your hand up did you want to jump in

01:25:31.980 yeah i'll be quick and maybe uh i don't know if jason's gonna take up the mantle of the the

01:25:40.680 the segment or if we're just gonna have a bit of a an echo chamber here uh as as we

01:25:48.160 things down a bit um but like we it seems like we kind of been cycling back to this whole thing

01:25:54.040 where um the both sides kind of agree generally on the problems um but uh the the solution that

01:26:04.840 the separatists offer just kind of ends that we should and this is what i mean when when i

01:26:10.840 when i say we're so short-term focused and uh things are not really thought out because uh

01:26:17.160 as it has kind of been said like separation is not a simple or or complete solution to the

01:26:24.760 the problems that we all agree on um like not only is there no real political support for

01:26:32.280 for separation in alberta and i i am not convinced there there ever will be um but unlike quebec

01:26:41.560 Like Alberta surviving as an independent country like makes even less sense. It's completely a landlocked province, unlike Quebec. It has no access to global trade routes. They do not have anything like an army or even a provincial police force.

01:26:59.440 uh they're nowhere near being able to to stand on their own um i completely agree with harrison

01:27:06.700 that canada is certainly weaker without alberta but alberta is is also weaker without canada

01:27:11.960 um one of the principal issues with the alberta economy right now is that

01:27:16.580 oil is only sold down south and as such they are uh forced to sell at their their resources

01:27:25.940 is at a discounted rate and if alberta was an independent country that situation would be the

01:27:32.580 same they'd still be dependent on canada to access any sort of global markets or be forced to to go

01:27:38.860 through the united states um unless they joined the united states um so i i don't really see it

01:27:46.160 as a as a solution uh and kind of uh cam before he left it it was it was just kind of the the

01:27:52.760 end point we'll just separate there but like there's there's no political support for it

01:27:59.220 there's no it's not it doesn't actually solve the problems uh it just kind of makes them feel like

01:28:07.660 they might be better off able to solve better able to solve their problems but like fundamentally

01:28:13.140 uh the most important thing to the alberta economy is being able to more effectively export their

01:28:19.280 natural resources, mainly oil. And Canada is the key to solving that problem. Yes, we've had

01:28:30.140 governments that have been actively aggravating that problem. But the solution is to work together

01:28:38.980 with your friends out in the east, like the people here on this call. Common solution that

01:28:47.160 works for all of us because it's in canada's interest as well as alberta's interest to

01:28:51.760 to get that economic engine revving okay um i'm gonna bring some guests up shortly but i want to

01:29:01.240 be respectful of uh marty up north because you've been here for an hour and a half sir and you know

01:29:07.320 we've been saying some things about alberta that you know i want to hear your response to some of

01:29:12.260 this um do you have much do you have any more time to share marty we'd like to hear what your

01:29:17.780 thoughts are yeah well i'll probably like the room is breaking up for me i'll probably stay on

01:29:22.860 but i i just want to say this too um there is a growing separatist movement in alberta you like

01:29:30.100 there's it it's some people are underestimating just how big it is it is pretty big and we've

01:29:35.860 been glancing over a couple of things really quickly i mean i didn't know how much detail

01:29:39.720 we wanted to get into but there trust me there are efforts we know that is

01:29:47.480 wouldn't be to be the same um the movement that's existing would be wants out you know we would

01:29:54.120 separate and we would transform we would we don't know exactly what we would transform into but

01:29:59.640 you're right it's not enough for us to just separate and we're aware of that we will and

01:30:04.200 so even now as i speak there has been a strong movement you know there was there was something

01:30:08.680 called the alberta firewall that was proposed 25 years ago and we know that we need to have our own

01:30:15.480 alberta pension plan our own tax collection agency uh things like that we do have a police force it's

01:30:21.880 not an alberta provincial police force at this point but we do have sheriffs and we are augmenting

01:30:26.840 that so you know that's a whole other separate like it's not people have just said hey let's

01:30:32.200 just separate and then try and figure it out there's we we recognize that separation would

01:30:36.600 have issues and it wouldn't happen overnight um okay and in the spirit of kind of being solutions

01:30:43.240 oriented is there any sort of like provincial parties that are like the separatist parties

01:30:49.960 that you that you would crown as like you know keep your eye on these guys or i support these

01:30:54.040 guys i think they're going to try to use the leverage of alberta independence to get what we

01:30:57.800 want or i missed part of your question greg repeat it is there any what people or groups

01:31:06.200 Yeah, people or groups or provincial parties that are sort of leading the charge or that like that you are supporting or keeping your eye on in terms of trying to get Alberta independence or kind of use that leverage to get what they want.

01:31:20.640 Well, right now, the we're trying hard to work.

01:31:24.800 I wish Cam was still here.

01:31:25.900 We're trying hard to work with Albert with with the UCP current provincial government.

01:31:32.240 I mean, we had 6,200 people show up at our AGM in November, which is, you know, I think it set a record.

01:31:38.880 Even federal parties don't get 6,000 people showing up at AGM.

01:31:42.180 So we are trying hard to affect change from within the existing party.

01:31:48.900 But beyond that, there are always fringe parties in Alberta.

01:31:53.700 But our preferred method right now is to get Danielle to be more conservative and potentially to talk more sovereignty.

01:32:03.000 She has talked about sovereignty.

01:32:04.420 I mean, she introduced the Sovereignty Act, and she's been fighting Ottawa on six or seven legal cases, which we've all won.

01:32:13.240 So, you know, I mean, yeah, it's a process.

01:32:16.220 It's a long process.

01:32:17.820 And thank you for letting me come on this space.

01:32:20.720 I'm glad it went the way well

01:32:22.240 and everybody was super polite to each other

01:32:24.480 and there's great arguments brought up on both sides

01:32:26.660 and

01:32:27.660 you know, yeah

01:32:29.360 Yeah, absolutely, absolutely

01:32:32.120 and yeah, you're free to stick around

01:32:34.800 we're going to bring

01:32:35.860 I'm going to try to bring one loyalist or nationalist

01:32:38.680 up and one

01:32:39.680 separatist

01:32:41.380 I really want to hear what Jason

01:32:44.640 has to say if he's still there

01:32:46.620 but I will drop out as a listener

01:32:48.360 going forward, thanks guys

01:32:49.800 yeah thanks for tuning in thank you marty appreciate it you can find marty up north

01:32:55.160 on uh on twitter there's his account um jason levine he is uh running as a ppc candidate

01:33:03.300 in alberta he does live stream content followed the coots for uh did you want to share your so far

01:33:10.200 i most certainly would love to and thank you for the opportunity

01:33:16.280 I do want to kind of lay down my current position.

01:33:19.120 I'm not a separatist.

01:33:20.440 I'm not an independent.

01:33:21.980 I'm not a nationalist, and I'm not a loyalist.

01:33:25.600 I'm actually a realist.

01:33:27.540 And I'm also hoping for a new Canada.

01:33:30.600 Sorry, did you say a realist?

01:33:32.760 Did you say a realist?

01:33:34.000 You cut out.

01:33:34.600 Yeah, more of a realist or more of a patriot.

01:33:38.300 Because what I'd love to see is a Canada new provincial deal.

01:33:42.000 So let me have a couple of moments to kind of lay out the foundation of my proposal here, because it's not an argument, because every single thing I heard from both sides are all correct.

01:33:53.400 So 1867, Alberta joined in 1905.

01:33:59.620 So we weren't at the table during the Confederation creation because we thought Canada was a lovely place to be for security and for prosperity and for trade and a whole bunch of other things, including culture.

01:34:12.000 and also the identity of a nationalist country but here's where i'm going to kind of

01:34:19.200 let you guys know where i'm coming from i spent half my life in the west and half my life in the

01:34:24.000 east my children were born in ontario i was born in manitoba and i'm now raising them in alberta

01:34:29.520 so it gives me a very unique perspective on this nation of ours and i love all of these kind of

01:34:35.600 provinces i've lived in i do want to highlight just a couple things about the the construction

01:34:41.360 of confederation which i think is is kind of the sticking point that a lot of people actually do

01:34:46.300 agree on this conversation on both sides when confederation was created we also created the

01:34:52.620 supreme court where the by law uh three judges must come from quebec and by a tradition three

01:35:00.280 judges come from ontario that's already six out of the nine uh two from the west or northern canada

01:35:07.060 and one from the east now the reason why this was done was because at that time canada was a very

01:35:13.220 east heavy country with a lot of population industry and trade happening in the east but as

01:35:20.100 the last hundred years or so as alberta and other provinces joined the confederation there's been a

01:35:24.980 lot of growing up especially in the west bc alberta you can kind of say manitoba has really grown up

01:35:32.500 since confederation and that's exactly the purpose of adding us to the confederation and i do think

01:35:38.900 what we need is a new provincial deal for all provinces quebec is casting those waters for a

01:35:44.980 long time now every time that they have the idea of having a provincial constitution which is

01:35:50.740 something that's granted under the canadian constitution each province can have one no

01:35:55.060 province really has one at this stage but quebec every time they bring it up does allow it to

01:36:00.100 become negotiation power for concessions with ottawa and this is a cycle that's been working

01:36:06.420 quite well for quebec and bravo to them because it does allow them to do what they need to do now

01:36:11.780 i've had the luxury of having uh jeffrey rath on the phone earlier today so he's the gentleman from

01:36:20.420 i've also had him on my show with bruce party drew barnes and cameron davies who was one of your

01:36:26.500 our um debaters here today and i've listened to them all very very carefully on what they

01:36:31.780 think is the solution here and i i'm going to suggest to you the solution is not the breakup

01:36:37.220 of canada into sixth region with alberta leaving i kind of parrot what bruce party from ontario

01:36:44.420 suggests which is to have alberta in a position to support independence so there has to be a clear

01:36:53.700 and convincing question with a clear response

01:36:56.900 and start to follow the current guidelines.

01:37:00.040 And this is not really law,

01:37:01.060 but it's guidelines from the Supreme Court of Canada

01:37:02.940 under the Clarity Act of 2000,

01:37:05.960 which was initiated after Quebec

01:37:07.560 has done a lot of their separate talk.

01:37:11.320 Now, what Bruce Party suggests,

01:37:13.340 and I think it's an excellent idea,

01:37:15.040 I do know that Jeff Raff is kind of spearheading

01:37:18.740 the start of this,

01:37:20.660 which is if Alberta does vote,

01:37:22.620 want a clear question to leave the next step legally is to go through

01:37:31.820 and do because the question of canada can unilaterally keep alberta in

01:37:38.220 whether or not alberta can unilaterally leave is unknown so we don't even have a clear path

01:37:43.100 to separation with consent i'm using that word consent on purpose because any other attempts to

01:37:49.020 leave is going to be without consent and that becomes incredibly difficult and i think there'll

01:37:53.740 be a generational for us to recover from if that is something that happens but what i'm what the

01:37:59.980 bruise party proposes and a lot of people in alberta is this is to go and see if alberta is fed up

01:38:06.540 i think you can hear from mark pretty much are but it doesn't mean they actually it means they

01:38:13.820 want to go to marriage counseling they want to sit down and have marriage counseling now the

01:38:18.140 The official name of a marriage counselling in Canada is Federation, not a Constitutional Convention,

01:38:24.260 which allows us to reopen this conversation so that we can actually redistribute things.

01:38:32.380 And this is important in the Supreme Court, because over the last 100 years,

01:38:37.360 the balance of representation for the West hasn't kept up with Canada,

01:38:42.200 even though we have economically grown and we have a population boom,

01:38:46.440 and we have actually scales quite a bit there is a lot of truth to what marty had to say

01:38:52.080 because on election night i'm gonna give you uh i'm gonna give you like a half a minute here to

01:38:57.620 kind of land the plane can you kind of summarize like what this sort of solution of like you know

01:39:02.280 managing the relationship or like the divorce counseling looks like is this a more of a

01:39:06.360 provincial solution or a federal one both so what happens is if alberta and this is bruce party

01:39:14.220 Alberta's the first to say we want to separate

01:39:17.200 other provinces will likely jump on board

01:39:19.380 with that like New Brunswick

01:39:20.660 possibly even Manitoba

01:39:23.160 it doesn't mean separation happens but it means

01:39:25.280 the conversation is now going to happen

01:39:27.120 with Ottawa if there's enough support

01:39:29.000 50% of the population of seven

01:39:31.280 provinces we can do a

01:39:33.100 constitutional convention which allows

01:39:35.160 a new provincial deal which means we can

01:39:37.080 hammer most of these problems including

01:39:39.020 equalization

01:39:39.900 the solution is to break it up

01:39:42.980 I think Harrison was a lot closer to the right solution, which is we need to sit down and renegotiate only in after that.

01:39:50.720 If there's no solution, then we should be looking at. I would like to have marriage counseling or a constitutional convention.

01:39:58.040 OK, OK. And we can certainly go deeper into the weeds on that.

01:40:03.060 I brought up two more speakers. I do want to hear from Daniel and Fortisax first, though, to see if you guys have any response to what Jason was just saying.

01:40:12.980 And then after that, we're going to go to Chad, uh, Chad Eros.

01:40:16.860 I don't know if I'm saying your name right, but I'm, I believe that this is a, you are

01:40:20.780 part of the trucker convoy, if I'm not mistaken.

01:40:23.400 Um, and we'll get to hear your perspective and then we'll go over to Nathan Cook, who

01:40:27.360 I believe is a nationalist, but, uh, did Fortisax or Daniel, did you first want to hop

01:40:32.200 in and say anything, uh, about what Jason was just, uh, talking about in terms of the

01:40:38.060 marriage counseling?

01:40:39.440 i look i i just wanted to reiterate like like daniel has touched upon this before as well as

01:40:46.880 myself you will not find very many eastern conservatives agree with the egregious treatment

01:40:53.960 of the western provinces you will not find disagreement among uh you know these people

01:40:58.900 in saying that they've been given a bad deal they've been through transfer payments through

01:41:04.680 equalization uh through just plain old snub the laurentian elite we get it we agree i agree that

01:41:11.680 some form of

01:41:12.740 i gotta go like just so that we understand the positions of uh of the speakers here we don't

01:41:22.260 necessarily disagree with the with the notion that there should be fair treatment the one thing

01:41:27.780 and this is true everywhere else and this might be a little spicy it might be a little controversial

01:41:33.440 to say but there will always be some degree of a power imbalance the question is how intolerable

01:41:40.700 and how unfair will that power imbalance be and that's just a result of pure demographics and

01:41:46.580 population size that's what i would say yeah i mean i'm familiar with the the act and like

01:41:58.140 You mentioned other provinces jumping all in. Based on the polling that I've seen, I'm very suspect that there's the necessary political support in even Alberta to achieve such a measure. There's definitely no support for it in a province like New Brunswick or any of the maritime provinces.

01:42:18.520 um i think a constitutional convention would be a mess the previous then it gets everyone's backs

01:42:27.340 up and makes puts everyone uh gets everyone to dig their heels in and become unreasonable instead

01:42:33.340 of seeking uh pragmatic solutions to some of these things um i don't think the regional makeup

01:42:42.680 Supreme Court is one of the fundamental problems with the governance we've seen in recent years.

01:42:50.460 Again, we go back to we need to change the culture to have the proper pressure on politicians to govern better in line with the interests of our people.

01:43:03.440 And that will solve the problems that are affecting the past.

01:43:07.400 That'll solve many of the problems that we share, East and West.

01:43:12.680 and that'll avoid a messy conversation amongst regional slash provincial interests

01:43:23.460 across the country. Jason delivered a very reasonable position. I just don't think it

01:43:35.160 would uh like pragmatically speak i don't think uh pursuing that uh avenue would result in kind of

01:43:43.380 fruitful debate that would actually solve uh the problems we're we're facing and again uh even when

01:43:51.220 it comes to like pipelines which i think is one of the most critical things like we have seen the

01:43:56.200 zeitgeist completely change in the post trudeau era like both carney and paul are talking favorably

01:44:03.320 building east to west pipelines uh pipelines across the country to tidewater now like we're

01:44:09.260 already shifting into a new era um trudeau years were particularly bad there's been

01:44:17.640 overarching poor government governance across a lot of the post-war period particularly since the

01:44:25.480 the um the 60s um but um i think we're heading to a better era than the trudeau years um still

01:44:36.220 far from the uh the expectations that any of us have but better than the trudeau years you know

01:44:43.080 it's a low bar but uh things are getting marginally better um and we can continue to push things in

01:44:49.460 the right direction by working together across the country to to pressure existing politicians

01:44:55.760 um to to better uh adhere to their own interests

01:45:00.200 i'd love to respond to that if i may uh sure keep it keep it brief if you could i'd like to hear from

01:45:08.680 uh from some of our speakers absolutely so the good news is uh this particular debate will be

01:45:16.560 non-binding on the federal government but what would be a little bit more binding would be the

01:45:20.920 democratic process itself so there will be a referendum in alberta and if alberta says no

01:45:26.080 it'll be no and then we move on to other ways to negotiate and work things out but if it does

01:45:31.760 turn out to be yes and the current poll that was done by rachel parker and this is not a

01:45:37.000 an ex-poll she hired actual poll posters it's a 40 is already in favor of or looking at

01:45:45.860 independence and 20% looking at joining the US that makes 6% of Alberta that's looking for change

01:45:52.540 significant change but a good news here Daniel it's not going to be you and I debating that's

01:45:57.500 going to change that it's going to be the vote so there'll be a democratic process and if that

01:46:01.620 actually happens sorry to interrupt Jason uh could somebody find a tweet of what you were just

01:46:06.800 talking about is there like a tweet about that study that was done you don't have to look at

01:46:11.000 just this instance Rachel Parker Rachel Parker okay yeah Rachel yeah and it's also on my timeline

01:46:18.020 yeah yeah sure so that that's exactly the Bruce party's point is if Alberta does come to the polls

01:46:25.540 and does say yes we do want some sort of change on a clear question it's going to start the process

01:46:30.480 renegotiation not separation separation just divorce is the last option option is going to

01:46:38.820 be counseling and counseling will be possibly just conversations with ottawa or all the way to

01:46:44.600 a constitutional convention now the couple things that daniel said that he disagree with

01:46:49.020 is no constitutional conventions are difficult but it depends on what the goals of that was

01:46:53.820 now if alberta votes to leave which takes it further than quebec ever did that changes the

01:46:59.580 entire landscape of that conversation and if a couple other provinces do come up to the table

01:47:04.140 with the same thing, a referendum, democratically voting, yes.

01:47:07.520 That's going to change the entire conversation.

01:47:10.120 I do think if we don't get to that point,

01:47:12.700 there's going to be a redistribution of not just the conversation

01:47:19.340 about separation, because that will end it,

01:47:21.520 but it will also open up other types of concessions from Ottawa to Alberta

01:47:27.080 so that we can do a little bit more sovereignty

01:47:29.820 and separate some of those powers that should have been that way all along.

01:47:33.120 but at the end of the day i do think canada is is getting positioned for and there's a storm coming

01:47:38.880 to a new provincial deal and the last thing i'm gonna land it here because mark carney and i just

01:47:44.400 did this episode yesterday it's called the looney dollar system if you guys are familiar with this

01:47:49.600 you really need to check this out because this is the same euro dollar which is going to put the

01:47:54.540 canadian direct competition in a bad way with the u.s and this definitely made it an alberta problem

01:48:01.300 because 80% of the surplus that we have with the U.S. is coming from Alberta.

01:48:05.880 This particular issue, if you check out this episode, is happening now under Carney.

01:48:11.220 It was under Trudeau, and it's definitely not making Alberta look better.

01:48:15.300 And here's the landing of the plane.

01:48:17.060 Carney's current cabinet, nobody from west of Winnipeg or Manitoba is in that cabinet.

01:48:23.080 So it's very clear with the rhetoric from Carney specifically, the new guy,

01:48:26.820 that Alberta is not somebody looking to help and assist.

01:48:31.240 In fact, he's going to be using our oil reserves

01:48:33.340 and our oil transactions and surplus with the U.S.

01:48:36.500 to create a currency war, not just a trade war,

01:48:39.700 but a currency war with the U.S.

01:48:41.460 So this is going to, I think, either stoke Alberta's independence

01:48:45.240 and separation or destroy our economy.

01:48:48.060 And then here's the landing of the plane.

01:48:49.520 The wheels are on the runway here.

01:48:51.480 uh denny rancor provided us statistic data on the excess mortality of canadians and when our

01:48:58.840 value of the oil goes down the rate of suicide drug use and other types of horrible things and

01:49:06.760 deaths across canada goes up it's statistically proven that when we have a depression in canada

01:49:12.620 economically we actually lose lives so this is not just a ideology conversation as harrison put it

01:49:19.720 This is literally about life and death, because the more that we suffer in the country, the more that we actually take our own life and go on the bad road.

01:49:28.020 So this is a conversation about fixing Canada, going to counseling, and let's see if we can do this.

01:49:33.580 But we will have far more leverage if Alberta and other provinces have voted that they're ready to separate, much like in a divorce.

01:49:40.660 If you're ready and talking to the divorce attorneys, it's a little bit more serious.

01:49:45.440 So the counseling stage, I think, has to happen.

01:49:47.720 And there's no way in my mind, I don't see a path forward where Alberta just unilaterally leaves without Canada's consent, because I think that will turn into a civil war and we are landlocked.

01:49:58.580 And that would be a generational problem.

01:50:01.520 We'll be failing pain for the next 20 years if that's the road that we went.

01:50:05.080 So I do want to see some sort of consent, a new conversation and a financial deal.

01:50:10.100 Amazing. Amazing. A triple landing of the plane.

01:50:13.680 Well done, sir.

01:50:14.420 um for the uh lee and uh base maiden i put the the study that jason was referring to in the chat

01:50:22.000 that 40 percent of uh albertsans want independence and 20 percent want to become part of america so

01:50:28.660 we can put that up in the nest and uh yeah actually what you were talking about jason

01:50:32.480 reminded me of a stat or a factoid that um uh unemployment among young men if i'm not mistaken

01:50:42.740 it was unemployment among young men in alberta was like really bad even before covid like of

01:50:49.580 course during covid there was like an explosion of uh you know um destruction to the economy and

01:50:55.160 the job market and that sort of thing but if i'm not mistaken it was actually before covid even

01:50:59.420 happened there was a big high unemployment rate it was either alberta or calgary but uh that was

01:51:06.260 before covid even happened um speaking to your and you're correct yeah and that was when opec

01:51:12.820 changed the price and there was oil wars with russia so anytime the oil price was significantly

01:51:17.620 drop uh death in alberta and calgary goes up yeah but no i appreciate that you you bring sort of the

01:51:24.040 i like what you said about how this is actually not ideological this this is life and death people

01:51:28.800 are really struggling out here in alberta um i mean you have your main resource getting choked

01:51:34.500 out by ottawa so but uh let's go over to chad chad i see you in chat there i've heard of the

01:51:41.600 legend of chad euros before if you would i'd love to hear your stance but if you could just give

01:51:46.280 yourself a quick introduction um not too long but just kind of like briefly like you're from

01:51:53.080 saskatchewan i believe yep yeah i'm a fifth generation saskatchewanian uh my ancestors

01:52:00.200 came over from hungary germany ukraine um you know basically uh that's who we are i mean they

01:52:09.020 wanted to populate the prairies with eastern europeans and that's my stock is and that's why 0.95

01:52:14.960 we're here and uh so yeah and and you know like i've been doing um i've been trying to explain to

01:52:22.800 people what the western mentality is here what what what our understanding of of what canada is

01:52:30.500 and um what i think what people got to understand is that uh before um basically the prairies in

01:52:38.280 western canada were populated um you know this place was called rootland it was owned by hudson's

01:52:44.260 bay company didn't there wasn't like this choice to join confederation uh western canada and a lot

01:52:51.180 of the northwest territories was sold to canada and it was it was almost sold yes kind of the

01:52:59.260 same way that you know russia used to own alaska before it was sold to the u.s sorry it was almost

01:53:06.040 sold to the u.s you said yeah rupert's land was almost sold to the u.s um so it almost it almost

01:53:13.860 ended up in the usa anyways if you look if you look into the story about how rupert's land was

01:53:19.460 sold to canada um so so there wasn't this there wasn't this choice to join um and uh

01:53:26.720 and and then just going on from there i i want to skip over a lot of history and just skip up to

01:53:33.880 1956 when uh laurent who was a he was a liberal prime minister did equalization

01:53:43.380 to a welfare state that's where you know if one territory is prospering more than the other

01:53:51.220 sorry you you're broke up for a sec there you're talking about uh um uh trend not transfer

01:53:57.860 okay sorry equalization payments you were saying yeah created by um a liberal liberal minister

01:54:07.920 Louis Saint Laurent and he and he more than just equalization payments he's his kind of trademark

01:54:16.640 thing that he's remembered for is turning Canada into a welfare state where where wealth is taken

01:54:24.120 to the other and the west like in a continuation of exploiting the west for resources and

01:54:33.200 and stuff like that that's basically what the end result has been like for example alberta

01:54:40.220 transferred 15 billion dollars a year to the east and quebec takes in about 14 billion dollars a

01:54:48.680 year so it's almost as if alberta is sending 15 billion dollars a year to quebec um some of the

01:54:57.020 like uh and atlantic provinces 20 up to 20 of the revenue they take in comes from western canada

01:55:05.560 so if western canada is separated they lose 20 of their provincial budgets like this is this is um

01:55:13.860 i'm just adding dollar incentives because somebody before said the province isn't or the problem is

01:55:19.620 a ideological problem but actually um kind of like what you were saying greg if you just look

01:55:26.020 at the dollars and cents and the nuts and bolts it's not really ideological it's that the system

01:55:31.540 has been set up on with this words land type exploitation of of the west and so um i was

01:55:43.620 reading an article when i was trying to explain this to somebody today and uh i found out that

01:55:50.340 Alberta had put in $600 billion more than it had received from Confederation.

01:55:58.820 $600 billion more.

01:56:01.460 And also, here's another thing to put this into perspective.

01:56:05.680 Canada has given the Ukraine, besides loans, but just given with no strings attached,

01:56:12.160 Canada has given the Ukraine $17 billion to fight a superpower to fight Russia.

01:56:20.340 And just a perspective, the West gives Quebec alone $14 billion a year, not over three years.

01:56:33.580 Every year, Quebec gets $14 billion.

01:56:38.800 And I want people to understand something about equalization payments.

01:56:43.680 Equalization payments is not a transfer from one provincial government to the other.

01:56:47.900 equalization payments comes from paycheck you know how you have source

01:56:52.700 where money comes off of your paycheck and then it goes to the government well money comes off of

01:57:00.760 um you know workers in the west or basically everybody the government the federal government

01:57:08.580 has a pool to you keep breaking up a bit i don't know if you can get find a spot with a better

01:57:16.300 reception is that happening other people too no i can hear him pretty good okay yeah i think that

01:57:23.580 was a you problem greg uh-oh yeah oh sorry about that yeah no um if i'm breaking up for people

01:57:30.620 sorry about that i i actually took myself okay yeah i i took myself off wi-fi didn't happen

01:57:37.220 um but yeah the equalization payment i mean there's other revenues that go into funding

01:57:43.720 equalization payments including resources um but uh it comes off of uh essentially a large part of

01:57:51.220 it people's paychecks we have no choice the only way to stop sending equalization payments is to

01:57:57.340 stop paying our personal taxes or businesses can stop taking uh money from deductions from people's

01:58:05.080 paychecks but that would take a major like revolution or revolt right for for for um employers

01:58:11.800 in the West to say, you know what, we're so fed up with equalization payments that we're

01:58:16.500 not going to deduct source deductions from our employees' paychecks and send it to the

01:58:20.540 federal government, because that's what actually funds it.

01:58:24.640 And so another landmark happened with equalization by a Liberal Prime Minister, and it was Pierre

01:58:31.980 Elliott Trudeau, another Liberal Prime Minister, he enshrined equalization payments in our

01:58:40.480 actual constant issue it's a constitutional issue and

01:58:47.340 basically exploiting rupert's land or the west uh you'd actually have to open up the constitution

01:58:58.400 and take it out so it's a constitutional crisis issue because equalization is enshrined in our

01:59:04.820 constitution as of 1986 by pierre elliott that's why um two of like well maybe we should just

01:59:15.140 i think it's my computer guys this has happened before to you know take profits and take take

01:59:27.880 um earnings from the west and transfer it east i'll land the plane there and i i don't know if

01:59:34.980 i gave any new information this space opened up or not but yeah thanks

01:59:40.800 uh thanks for sharing your thoughts chad i definitely want to hear from uh nathan cook

01:59:48.020 but did uh fortisax daniel uh fortisax your hands up did you want to jump in here

01:59:53.040 Yeah, I just wanted to correct the record on a number of statements that Chad made. And I wanted to say, you know, I appreciate your contribution to the discussion, as always, for coming up here.

02:00:06.100 So while it is enshrined in the Constitution of Canada and while it was enshrined in the Charter of 1982, the fact of the matter is that it's actually been reformed multiple times.

02:00:17.800 Most importantly was Justin Trudeau to disseminate more funds from the Western provinces to the East, but Harper actually led a massive overhaul.

02:00:27.960 So I think it's better understood as a mechanism of which the federal government has the ability to allocate resources to parts of the country where they're necessary or where they're needed.

02:00:38.720 I don't really think there's anything wrong with that.

02:00:40.860 I think that that's kind of the prerogative of the federal government.

02:00:44.180 Now, obviously, there's been extreme abuse.

02:00:47.940 There has been entitlement.

02:00:49.820 Like, I'm a Quebecer.

02:00:51.520 I know how much money comes from the western provinces in equalization.

02:00:54.880 Your figure is roughly accurate.

02:00:56.240 it's about 14 it's about 12 to 14 billion um but actually it's only nine percent of quebec's

02:01:01.520 annual budget and we did discuss this at the beginning of the stream where i did cover bits

02:01:07.600 from the so quebec doesn't actually need that money they're just getting it as kind of like

02:01:14.640 this legacy thing um and it can be scrapped at any point the equalization could be made effectively

02:01:20.080 zero uh by the federal government at any time now as for whether or not the hudson bay was

02:01:25.760 never offered to the U.S. The U.S. never actually put up a formal offer to acquire the Hudson Bay

02:01:31.280 Company. There are rumors historically that the U.S. wanted Canada, that they wanted Rupert's Land.

02:01:37.360 The British had no interest or had dwindling interest in colonizing the West, and so they 1.00

02:01:43.120 sold it to the Dominion government for £3,000. And that's how the Western provinces ended up

02:01:49.200 being part of Canada, being part of the Dominion of Canada. But there was never a formal offering

02:01:54.400 from the u.s to buy it uh like there was in the case with russia and alaska and the russians did

02:01:59.420 that to get back at the british for the crimean war actually which is really funny uh and that's

02:02:04.140 all i wanted to have to say all right thank you yeah the the uh sorry my connection is to respond

02:02:10.480 to that yeah of course my connection is really bad so i'm going to drop out real quick and then

02:02:14.400 jump in but yeah go ahead chat yeah thanks yeah thanks for the response there um i'm not sure

02:02:22.000 What do you think, guys?

02:02:26.400 I think I'm just going to refresh.

02:02:30.440 And we'll try to hop back in.

02:02:40.900 What are they saying?

02:02:42.240 We're missing the debate.

02:02:43.080 We're missing the debate.

02:02:45.700 What's going on?

02:02:48.220 Hopefully, this will fix everything.

02:02:50.960 Cross your fingers, chat.

02:02:52.000 The reforms that Harper did was to change how much natural resources contributed towards the average tax rate calculation.

02:03:06.120 So there has been numerous reforms, but the bottom line result is still that money comes from the West and goes East.

02:03:16.200 Um, and the other thing is that, um, I think you framed your, um, your, your, uh, explanation of how, uh, there was no formal offer from the U.S. to buy Rupert's Land.

02:03:30.740 Correct.

02:03:31.140 There, there, what, there, historically, historically there is, um, there were considerations of selling it to the U.S.

02:03:39.540 Um, I've, I've read extensively on this, um, but by no means am I a historical expert on this.

02:03:45.420 But at the end of the day, you might you might recall that there was a revolt over the sale of Rupert's land to Canada by the Métis people led by Louis Riel, because he said, hey, wait a second.

02:03:58.360 We weren't consulted on this. We're prairie people. We weren't told that this land was going to be sold to Canada.

02:04:05.460 like what if we wanted to stay sovereign and you know it was such a surprise to some people

02:04:11.140 that there was a revolt and louis riel a metis person was hanged for treason for his revolt

02:04:17.780 so it wasn't just a cut and dry thing um as much as we you know you'd like to say it was you know

02:04:24.240 it was just a nice peaceful transaction um yeah so there there is there was there's um

02:04:31.560 actual proof uh that it was a little bit tumultuous

02:04:34.940 guys add me isn't

02:04:41.460 i think that that's a really important point um that being said the metis were

02:04:50.760 bar none not the majority of the population at that point and uh like there were like

02:04:57.020 But Saskatchewan and Manitoba are not that far from from Ontario.

02:05:01.440 Manitoba was actually settled mostly by loyalists from Ontario.

02:05:04.880 Some would say maybe that's why Manitoba is kind of the odd one out in the prairie provinces.

02:05:09.040 They tend to align a little bit more with the east in their in their politics and culture.

02:05:14.660 But there's a case to be made that they were sidestepped simply because they were not I mean, they were not the majority.

02:05:21.340 Therefore, they were not the deciding opinion or deciding factor in whether or not the HPC would be sold.

02:05:26.740 And it was the HBC who decided to do so themselves as well.

02:05:30.760 It's not like the British single-handedly forced the HBC into selling to Canada.

02:05:43.900 I would love to speak right now as the moderator, but no one's paying attention.

02:05:50.500 Hello, moderators! Hello!

02:05:53.080 Yes, the space is glitching.

02:05:55.000 um greg is asking to be added back but i still see him as holding a mic so okay good to know

02:06:03.020 good to know so i'll leave then hop back in i'm just gonna close this whole browser

02:06:06.660 and then we'll start again i'm gonna close that too hopefully that fixes everything i'm gonna close

02:06:16.640 this too oh don't you love the tech i just love the technical difficulties guys it's so much fun

02:06:27.240 i've actually ran into this problem multiple times though on twitter spaces i don't know

02:06:32.360 what's going on elon but uh i blame you and i just want to put it out to the floor as it says

02:06:42.840 in the top it's a closed mic so not everyone's gonna get the mic a greg wycliffe is the is it

02:06:50.760 gonna work moderator and so he will be bringing up people as he sees fit so gonna work not

02:06:56.100 everybody's gonna get up we appreciate your patience um and nathan uh let her rip 1.00

02:07:01.400 it's still not working thank you uh fuck what alexa fucking shit 0.99

02:07:07.680 bruh this guy um hey guys how you doing uh you just made some fair points there it was nice 1.00

02:07:15.660 nice to listen to fellow canadians and chew the fat uh greg i i really loved 1.00

02:07:21.580 um your your video the the upgrade to i am canadian thanks sir i'm disappointed you left 0.98

02:07:29.700 out the irish and the scottish but hey shit happens um 0.98

02:07:33.720 fuck i should have taken notes guys you know i i get plugged once a week you know i'm not an 0.99

02:07:40.200 alcoholic but i'm having a drink tonight because i'm trying to figure out what i'm going to do with 0.98

02:07:43.040 losing two of my largest trading partners being china in the united states you know like for all 0.99

02:07:49.980 our industries but especially the commercial fishery you know 50 of my lobster goes to the 0.94

02:07:54.020 u.s 70 frozen 40 goes to china i'm fucked you know not just me all of us this guy's pretty funny um 0.89

02:08:01.280 but but uh the whole alberta thing look what i'm hearing is people are acting as if alberta is an 0.90

02:08:09.160 ethnicity in its own country and what i'm hearing is a lot of people give good opinions

02:08:15.100 but our ancestors you know i i'm a i'm a real canadian i arrived in this country from my

02:08:24.240 ancestors fishing the grand banks of newfoundland in the late 1500s and later settled to cape

02:08:29.000 breton island nova scotia uh that was pre-loyalists they were here before all that bullshit not the 0.98

02:08:34.740 phantom none of that shit genocide sorry it's uh four percent indigenous and five percent other 0.98

02:08:43.280 you know germans bit of dutch pretty whatever right but we we do have a bloodline heritage 0.98

02:08:49.900 of this country and where i'm going with that is our ancestors fought in numerous wars to shape

02:08:57.940 the borders of this nation the blood is in the soil right it wasn't for alberta it was for the

02:09:04.940 entire country right we own everything equally that's in this lens i get that there should be

02:09:11.840 more royalties going towards alberta um but but at the end of the day um i i worked in alberta for

02:09:20.560 a quarter of my life as an underdance drilling and ubd engineer uh before oh h and s stepped in 0.80

02:09:26.800 i mean i worked four months on two weeks off i wanted to kill myself fucking apache road in the 0.98

02:09:32.380 north borderline of the northwest northwest oratories hated it but i've been on every 0.93

02:09:38.320 inch of the province and it was beautiful or i'm just trying to reflect on what buddy said there

02:09:45.340 um but at the end of the day guys like some of the people speaking maybe some of the people

02:09:51.520 listening you're canadian by citizenship but you're not a bloodline canadian and what i mean

02:09:59.040 by that is like we did have people create this kind of like you know we we we we defined what

02:10:06.200 this country is we were in this country our ancestors before it became a nation they named

02:10:10.480 it they they they imposed the immigration laws in 1867 people applied to be what we already were

02:10:18.420 you know um and i i believe this country belongs to all of us equally

02:10:24.720 uh you know like and then what are you saying like um okay so alberta wants to separate are 1.00

02:10:31.380 you taking the 30 percent of jeets with you are they albertans that own the resources

02:10:37.360 bloodline canadians that you know contribute to what they just moved here and they're just

02:10:44.200 they live in alberta they got they got citizenship and and they're going to separate with you

02:10:49.240 come on we gotta be you gotta look at this with logic

02:10:52.980 it's terrible uh the division but you can't be like you know uh some of us are very

02:11:03.980 generational listening to some people with maybe two or three generations here

02:11:10.940 complaining about what they do for the rest of the country.

02:11:17.260 But what did your ancestors do,

02:11:19.100 or what entitlement do you even have to be here

02:11:21.140 spewing that nonsense, right?

02:11:25.240 Because, again, they didn't fight in the Beaver War,

02:11:29.360 the Seven Year War, the War of 1812,

02:11:32.680 World War I, World War II, for Alberta.

02:11:35.860 It was for all of Canada, equally.

02:11:37.820 the same way in albertan can come to the maritimes hop in a lobster boat with me

02:11:44.620 and hauling as much lobster as they want on their license and a 10 billion dollar annual industry

02:11:51.440 we have all kinds of resources here guys it's not like you're you're feeding us and we're poor

02:11:58.540 they won't let us tap into our oil and our gas here newfoundland is loaded

02:12:03.960 they're letting us do our offshore

02:12:06.800 but that's

02:12:08.940 being milked and controlled

02:12:10.780 by Norway

02:12:11.680 right

02:12:12.960 so what we have to do is take control of

02:12:16.600 our resources

02:12:18.040 get foreign entities off our resources 1.00

02:12:20.980 we

02:12:22.500 what the problem

02:12:24.980 is what the US exposed

02:12:26.960 is that

02:12:28.400 we're being middleman

02:12:30.920 guys, it's all they have

02:12:32.760 we produce the resources

02:12:34.680 Trump is saying he has the most oil in the world 0.99

02:12:36.600 what the fuck is the man talking about 0.99

02:12:38.340 it's not even close 1.00

02:12:39.520 it's Venezuela, Saudi Arabia, Canada

02:12:42.380 and then them

02:12:44.260 we're at what

02:12:46.380 144 proven

02:12:47.940 billion barrels proven

02:12:50.260 they're what 90

02:12:51.900 so again

02:12:57.820 what are they refining guys

02:13:00.540 90% of our oil

02:13:01.800 sell it back to us at two or three times the cost and that not just oil that's everything

02:13:08.580 what we lack in canada is refining manufacturing and processing 95 of the crab in newfoundland

02:13:17.160 goes to maine to get processed uh they take three billion dollars worth annually over lobster

02:13:23.920 you know i'm heavily involved in this industry guys so i can give good examples in that

02:13:28.260 we just aren't set up to do it i mean i i know these tariffs aren't going to last because

02:13:35.680 the united states many of these industries can't be sustainable without buying canadian it's just

02:13:41.580 not possible they have too much processing these plants are going to be empty down there but it

02:13:47.080 just wakes us up to be like why are we being middleman you know like if we like where's the

02:13:53.660 common sense we just need to be look we have all this steel we don't know what to do with it well

02:14:00.680 i know what to do with it let's start build steel is the main component for um our oil refineries

02:14:06.320 let's start building those you know let's get nuclear energy going let's get the pipeline going

02:14:12.280 we're resource rich we're just there's lots of as shitty as it seems guys there's nothing but

02:14:18.780 opportunity for us building manufacturing processing and and refining our own products

02:14:24.820 that's all we've been a middle the u.s has just been middlemanning us and selling

02:14:29.220 our own products back to us after processing at two or three times the cost that's why everything's

02:14:35.100 so fucking expensive in our country and i'm going off topic and i'm right away here guys but um 0.96

02:14:40.260 fuck i got kicked out again um i did say something and i hope to god it comes back um thank you 0.98

02:14:48.940 nathan yeah i'll just take a pause that's so annoying oh my gosh guys what's going on elon 0.98

02:14:56.440 what's going on here man thank you nathan um yeah yeah i'll just take a pause there i forgot

02:15:04.560 God, sorry, I was rambling.

02:15:06.020 No, I just, yeah, I just rambled there.

02:15:08.040 I might figure it out.

02:15:09.260 You're romantic.

02:15:10.500 Thank you.

02:15:12.140 Greg, are you back, boss?

02:15:14.540 I was.

02:15:15.900 I was back.

02:15:17.820 Oh, this is so annoying.

02:15:19.400 Greg, you should try closing your browser and, like, just wiping your browser.

02:15:22.720 I already did that.

02:15:24.300 It worked.

02:15:25.140 It worked.

02:15:26.300 Oh, my God, dude.

02:15:27.540 That's crazy.

02:15:28.640 All right.

02:15:29.060 We're closing the browser again.

02:15:30.900 uh it's it's almost worse to do twitter spaces on a desktop it's almost like more

02:15:40.360 stable when you're on mobile it's just crazy it's so annoying

02:15:44.200 uh it's like hey is my gaming pc not enough is it not enough thanks for this opportunity i just

02:15:55.540 had a question for actually both sides

02:15:57.580 if we have them still here

02:15:59.060 would they be open for

02:16:01.140 a new provincial deal following

02:16:03.520 the Supreme Court suggestions and see if

02:16:05.600 there's room for a constitutional

02:16:07.700 convention if the people voted for

02:16:09.640 that and if there was enough support

02:16:11.820 for it would they be open to these

02:16:13.600 renegotiations to keep Canada

02:16:15.560 together under a new deal

02:16:16.840 sorry I don't mean

02:16:21.720 to cut in here but Jason you're running

02:16:23.520 with the ppc aren't you thought i seen you going floating around there but this is a pretty

02:16:27.640 non-partisan comment of mine absolutely no but i want to i'm i actually am forming a policy

02:16:35.760 declaration and i want to run some things by you and potentially run it by max and maybe

02:16:41.340 just finish his thought if you don't mind

02:16:45.160 yeah absolutely i was just i was just personally reaching out just to maybe

02:16:50.000 touch base on them in the side that's all thank you nathan very nice to meet you because i do

02:16:54.720 think that if there is a we had a 61 in favor of getting rid of the equalization in alberta and

02:17:00.560 as you said that went nowhere but alberta is is is it a position where they kind of want to speak up

02:17:06.980 be heard and if alberta was to vote yes to separation or independence and open the conversation

02:17:12.880 with ottawa and renegotiation with the loyalists the nationalists separatists and the independents

02:17:18.800 be willing to sit at the table and see where this one goes or are they pretty certain that we're not

02:17:24.500 going to have success and i don't want to say uh we won't have success i want to say let's try and

02:17:29.220 do that but just like any legal battle you know when you have a settlement there's some good and

02:17:33.460 bad for both sides and that's usually when it's a good settlement when both sides are happy and

02:17:37.680 upset at the same time but i'm just curious from the debaters here would they be open to that and

02:17:43.160 go through that process

02:17:44.520 Daniel do you want to go first

02:17:49.860 yeah I mean

02:17:52.920 who am I to stand against

02:17:55.380 the will of the people if there was

02:17:56.600 significant

02:17:58.840 support for such a thing like yeah

02:18:01.400 we should absolutely go

02:18:03.580 through the necessary process

02:18:05.600 to negotiate

02:18:07.480 a new deal

02:18:08.520 as I

02:18:10.100 kind of explained

02:18:12.620 And previously, when I responded to you,

02:18:16.380 it wouldn't be my priority, personally.

02:18:42.620 would propose if we were able to do that would be something like a quarter century or 25 year

02:18:57.740 sunset clause so every 25 years without debate we can go ahead and reopen and have a conversation to

02:19:03.980 adjust the equalization and how canada looks as population and growth and industry continues

02:19:10.380 but having us locked out of that conversation from the west because we were not part of the

02:19:14.900 confederation when it was negotiated we got added to it that one it's a very original and interesting

02:19:22.560 idea and you know what i gotta hand it to you i don't think i ever heard that before i think that

02:19:27.380 might be the ticket you're back my gosh a minute yay for greg

02:19:40.380 Thank you.

02:20:10.380 Thank you.

02:20:40.380 Thank you.

02:21:10.380 Thank you.

02:21:40.380 yeah grab just like i remember like when i was living in vancouver you know it's nothing new

02:21:48.220 alberta was trying to get the pipeline going same thing pulling the booze off the shelf in bc 1.00

02:21:53.820 alberta liquor i forget what year it was but it was about 10 years ago remember that fellas um

02:21:59.900 what was it just just uh it was a 2012 or man i'm so you know i'm still living in 2020 to be honest

02:22:13.380 because the pandemic and the way our lives got sucked away but i just i'm so like bad with time

02:22:18.320 but i'm just guessing like 10 years when we were trying to get the pipeline going to ship

02:22:23.900 off the ports of uh through the pacific and vancouver or british columbia blocked it and

02:22:29.700 started pulling alberta's liquor off the shelves similar today do you remember that like that

02:22:35.760 wasn't it was a while ago but it wasn't that long ago it's you know you're you're not a port you're

02:22:42.240 you're you're a province it's landlocked and you're not a port province right so you're you're at the

02:22:48.000 mercy of these other provinces and that's what i mean being a separatist you'd be tariffed in

02:22:53.640 tax to death right um i i think being a separatist is um you know you if you're you're a separatist

02:23:02.080 you don't believe in in being a bloodline you don't believe in bloodline canadians you don't

02:23:05.720 believe that we have a natural identity a heritage our own sovereignty and our own independence

02:23:11.400 and i get the frustration there i get you got you guys are i i lived out there i lived out there for

02:23:17.400 quarter of my life and i i get i get i get that frustration i understand it absolutely absolutely

02:23:24.940 um yeah i appreciate that nathan did anybody else want to hop in on on uh i've got some fresh blood

02:23:33.360 up here too um greg i've got uh ginger snaps and j remy so uh absolutely go ahead and then we'll go

02:23:41.920 to our new guys yeah thanks um i you know i i love uh nathan's um passionate uh you know talk

02:23:50.980 about his family you're you're proud that your family helped build this country and um i think

02:23:57.740 i think that's where you find common ground with westerners too like my my ancestors came here and

02:24:05.380 there was nothing here all the towns all the cities all all the roads everything was built

02:24:10.020 by uh people that i know like my grandparents my great grandparents people that i met and knew

02:24:17.940 built the prairies like my my family's first winter here was they had to dig a hole in the

02:24:24.060 ground and they lived in a mud hut that was their first home was a mud hut to settle the prairies

02:24:29.840 because there was nothing here um and i think in that way um uh you know prairie people share the

02:24:38.360 same heritage that you do they weren't um they weren't immigrants they were pioneers pioneers

02:24:44.200 are different than immigrants because immigrants immigrate to something that's already pre-built 1.00

02:24:50.840 pioneers build something that was never there in the first place and there's a big difference so i

02:24:57.880 my ancestors are pioneers my ancestors built something from nothing and there was nothing

02:25:04.220 here and you know people can say you know aboriginal people are here and stuff like that

02:25:08.060 But they were nomadic, and in the wintertime, they got the hell out of here because it was too cold.

02:25:14.760 And my ancestors built permanent settlements here.

02:25:18.820 And, yeah, of course, you know, I can't say all, all, you can't say all Aboriginal tribes left Saskatchewan because there's about 70 to 80 of them, but most of them did.

02:25:30.100 And just back to Greg about how, you know, there's just this mass immigration influx.

02:25:37.160 I taught at a business school. I taught finance and accounting, which is an ironic thing to teach in a business school because the business schools are one of the main vehicles to take over international students.

02:25:50.800 And that whole mass immigration thing is about getting head taxes off of people, billions and billions of dollars of head tax through tuition.

02:25:59.840 And what I know from being an accountant in industry is that these people are paying franchises and paying workplaces to do a workplace needs assessment, basically fraudulent workplace needs assessments to apply for foreign workers.

02:26:20.880 And these people pay for their jobs. They'll pay between $30,000 and $70,000 to have these fraudulent workplace assessments done for foreign workers so that they can stay long enough to get landed immigrant status. 0.61

02:26:36.400 It is a massive, corrupt, multi-billion, maybe trillion-dollar corrupt industry.

02:26:46.000 And actually, one of the last things Trudeau did is it became so obvious and prevalent, like the corruption was starting to bubble to the top so much that he said, look, we're going to –

02:27:06.400 on the foreign worker thing on the foreign student thing i don't know if you guys remember this maybe

02:27:10.800 you want to put the clip in the nest about he had to basically admit the corruption behind all of it

02:27:17.020 and that they were going to scale it back i do remember yes uh that's a that's a really good

02:27:23.720 and interesting thing to bring up um and i also wanted to slide that into how uncanny it is

02:27:31.020 that the Liberals had admitted their immigration mistakes

02:27:35.600 and even brought up the controversial topic of immigration in general

02:27:39.720 sooner than Pierre Polyev and the Conservatives.

02:27:43.220 That is absolutely uncanny to me.

02:27:45.700 It's totally bonkers that the Conservatives would allow themselves

02:27:49.640 to be outflying by the Liberals just on that alone.

02:27:53.320 And then, of course, you have more recently with Mark Carney

02:27:56.340 acknowledging the foundation and the ethnic majority of Canada,

02:28:00.220 which is our anglo and french heritage uh how is it that our conservative leader says a canadian

02:28:06.260 is a canadian um but our you know globalist banker uh whose climate alarmist wife uh you 0.98

02:28:14.260 know have been kicking for years comes up with oh yeah by the way this is our this is our ancestry

02:28:18.840 this is our heritage it's totally totally bonkers i i agree with you um the the liberal complicity

02:28:25.960 in the mass immigration scheme is just absolutely insane.

02:28:30.780 It is a direct threat to this country.

02:28:32.800 And to circle back to the issue of Alberta,

02:28:35.700 I should also say that the foreign diasporas in Alberta now

02:28:40.880 are also a direct threat to any secession attempts

02:28:43.820 because they most definitely do not want people from Alberta

02:28:52.520 to have any agency or say in that matter.

02:28:54.840 uh i'm of the opinion that the vast majority would sooner forfeit the totality of canada to

02:29:00.840 the u.s rather than let a province go its separate way in the name of its own distinct society and i

02:29:07.480 say that as a camecker yeah i mean foreigners living in uh in alberta and such are probably 1.00

02:29:14.040 more willing to join the united states than the average albert yeah they don't have any loyalties

02:29:19.320 of the country they're just looking for their own economic interests i'm kind of glad the

02:29:24.880 conversation has pivoted to immigration i think it's the most important issue facing the country

02:29:31.600 um regardless of uh we've spoke a lot about the country breaking up but i think the more

02:29:39.440 existential crisis to the nation of canada is the flood of foreigners that has been going on 1.00

02:29:45.920 since the 1960s uh that's how we're losing our country um uh we've talked a lot about priorities

02:29:54.360 and uh um how we should like there's been talk about uh rejecting senate and the supreme court

02:30:02.440 and so on um but really the existential threat for the country is not the imbalances and some

02:30:07.560 of our institutions it's uh the floods of foreigners that have come into every province 0.99

02:30:13.920 across the country, and that are being used and using our institutions to benefit themselves

02:30:22.620 at the expense of our own people. So when we talk about getting better organized,

02:30:29.600 when we talk about demanding governments that better represent our people,

02:30:34.320 it's not only about pipelines and gun rights. It comes down to immigration and ensuring the

02:30:42.980 Canadian people persevere into the future because we're very quickly being

02:30:49.580 lost especially when you look at younger generation of Canadians, at least

02:30:57.360 Canadian citizens, we're already becoming a minority in our own country but as I

02:31:08.740 identify myself as a re-migration enthusiast, all is not lost. There are still political solutions

02:31:17.700 to the situation that we're facing, but we are on a timer and we do have to get better

02:31:26.660 organized. We do need leaders that are better articulating the problems that we're facing

02:31:31.860 as a society and as a people um i i do believe that there is an appetite for

02:31:40.900 uh preserving this unique and special identity but that's not being represented with within

02:31:48.580 any of the major political parties uh as fortisex alluded to uh we've gotten some some nice little uh

02:31:55.780 some some rhetorical flourishes from from mark carney who's deviated a bit from the

02:32:04.180 liberal identity that has become the norm in our society um but they're really just that

02:32:13.280 rhetorical flourish is to try and uh reorient the liberal party as a centrist or even progressive

02:32:21.460 conservative identity um when you know he is very much a liberal internationalist his ideas are

02:32:29.920 are well out there um and he certainly won't do anything to reorient the uh the the crisis of

02:32:38.320 mass immigration in this country i'm sure many of you saw that he just disappointed uh mark

02:32:44.460 wiseman the the co-founder of the century and is it yeah of a charity based in canada whose stated

02:32:51.980 goal is to get it wasn't canada's population to 100 million by 2100 mainly through immigration

02:33:00.240 not through you know natural population growth it was bad enough that they had indirect control

02:33:06.360 over the immigration and now it's it's just straight up giving them a full-on cabinet

02:33:10.580 position it's kind of crazy absolutely uh daniel you're sounding a little uh fuzzy there daniel

02:33:16.260 i don't know if yeah it's hard it's hard to see what his role will be yeah you're saying a little

02:33:22.140 uh you're sounding a little fuzzy yeah you're roboting a bit but um no i i and it you know

02:33:30.380 okay i'll let someone else talk yeah and feel free to drop out then then jump back in if you want

02:33:36.780 because it sounds pretty bad.

02:33:39.480 Hopefully we won't have any more technical difficulties,

02:33:42.340 but I see a few hands up.

02:33:45.000 And sure, you know what?

02:33:45.920 The conversation did pivot to immigration, demographic change,

02:33:50.100 as I do think that is an existential issue that is certainly relevant

02:33:54.340 because we were talking about the interests of Canadians.

02:33:57.240 And the idea is that the interests of Albertans or the West

02:34:00.380 will be better represented if we join America,

02:34:03.360 which is the whole idea of leaving.

02:34:05.760 However, America also has its own set of problems when it comes to demographic change as well.

02:34:10.240 And for those who don't know, based on current deportation numbers, Obama is actually going to deport more people than the current Trump administration, which is not, I don't think, what MAGA voted for.

02:34:24.440 It's not what Trump supporters voted for.

02:34:26.980 So if you are a Trump supporter, you're a 51st stater, that is something to keep in mind that Trump is actually not delivering on mass deportations.

02:34:33.360 They like they even had signs. The Republican Party had signs, mass deportations as part of their campaigning, and they're not deporting as many people as Obama.

02:34:42.340 And so I like the stuff that Trump says, too. But like he's he's actually not delivering on this sort of like nationalistist American first Americans first platform as much as he said he was.

02:34:54.680 and that's why a lot of these people who want to separate saying oh my god constitution um yeah

02:35:00.440 there's we're just not familiar with the crooks and the bureaucrats south of the border and how

02:35:05.280 they could potentially screw you over and and extort you for your resources all the same as

02:35:10.480 that's happening in ottawa but um anyway that's all to say i i want to get somebody up here though

02:35:16.500 that um is a big 51st stater because because i was kind of it was kind of interesting at the

02:35:21.880 beginning of this debate that

02:35:23.640 both of our sort of separatists were like

02:35:25.860 well, I don't know if I want to become part of the states

02:35:27.880 but I definitely just kind of want Alberta to get 0.88

02:35:29.960 what it needs. I'm curious if there's

02:35:31.900 anybody who wants to hop up here

02:35:33.380 who is very much like a 51st

02:35:36.180 stater and wants to talk about how

02:35:37.980 becoming America is going to be 0.64

02:35:40.060 you know

02:35:41.380 the best thing ever

02:35:42.840 so you know request

02:35:45.760 to join. That would be Jonathan

02:35:47.320 that would be Jonathan

02:35:48.620 he's a diehard truthy purser

02:35:50.480 all right jonathan request to join is that is this jonathan here with the uh i was actually

02:35:55.760 chatting to him earlier he actually had some some good stuff uh in in chat jonathan bahay

02:36:01.140 uh request to join sir we can get you up here um jonathan can you check your mic

02:36:08.480 can you hear me we can hear you there's jonathan thanks go ahead it's behind

02:36:15.140 baha'i uh sorry when you when you brought me up i totally didn't hear your intro can you

02:36:21.140 repeat it uh the the intro of what of the entire space or what do you mean the intro

02:36:27.580 i i've been listening to the space since the beginning but when you were introduced

02:36:31.840 it flipped and it went totally dark until just now oh okay um well i i was just kind of saying

02:36:39.220 you know the the conversation is pivoted to immigration we're talking about demographic

02:36:42.560 change and uh that being an issue and you know whether albertans separate whether we become the

02:36:48.480 51st state or not that's actually an issue as well in america uh trump talked about selling

02:36:53.900 american citizenship uh that kind of devalues what it means to be part of america and as i said um

02:37:00.380 obama is actually deporting more p obama or sorry trump is on pace to deport less people than obama

02:37:08.580 did and mass deportations was like a major part of uh trump's platform and right now is and his

02:37:14.500 administration is not uh deporting as many people as he said he would but i i want to get back to

02:37:20.280 you know because a lot of people are saying no no like you know we need the constitution we need

02:37:24.520 this sort of state system and i want to hear from those people because we kind of missed that at the

02:37:28.760 beginning um of this debate where the people who are separatists didn't they were actually like

02:37:34.660 you know what i'm not you know totally gung-ho about becoming part of america i just kind of

02:37:38.180 want to get what i want um like i kind of want to just divorce from ottawa first and foremost

02:37:43.760 but i want to hear from people who are going to make that argument of like why joining the states

02:37:47.140 is is totally uh totally the play right so i i'm only called a big 51st or uh only because i i run

02:37:58.380 a discussion group uh that has been discussing this for many months now um so let's let's hear

02:38:06.480 let's hear it let's hear the best argument i want i want to hear the best arguments from this from

02:38:10.500 this chat so um so earlier on i i made a uh bit of analogy uh to compare like what it really means

02:38:21.740 because at the heart of it all it is how we are going to be governed as a people um people who

02:38:29.360 50 Firsters don't see themselves as abandoning Canada per se. They see it as abandoning the

02:38:37.920 government and helping the people of Canada to be able to build a better state for the people.

02:38:51.680 If you want to look at it, I like to compare it to

02:38:54.400 you have a Windows 95 computer, and it's riddled with viruses, and it's got pop-ups all over the

02:39:03.660 place, and you can't get anything done, and you're just totally frustrated because you have an

02:39:10.800 awesome computer with awesome resources, but this operating system just isn't managing it right.

02:39:16.960 It's causing all kinds of conflicts, and the opportunity of the 51st, which has now been

02:39:23.980 introduced gives the people of Canada a chance to basically reload a new

02:39:32.100 operating system and be able to actually have the resources come to the people

02:39:37.260 rather than going to the crown. Listening to tonight's space, I heard a lot of

02:39:43.600 conversation about conflict, a lot of issues in regards to Ottawa versus

02:39:50.960 Alberta, and, you know, people wanted to separate and be independent. So I think that a lot of that

02:39:57.220 is by design of the constitutional monarchy in order to keep the people divided. You know,

02:40:04.940 if you look at the map, it was literally just a bunch of lines drawn on a piece of paper

02:40:10.160 that didn't really define any people. It separated people. And in the event that we did

02:40:18.840 moved to 51st state that would completely be erased all the people that we deal with now 0.69

02:40:26.180 would be gone because the people would be able to have free elections by the people for the first

02:40:33.180 time and also a district system sorry go ahead because this this has always kind of bothered me

02:40:40.180 about this part of the argument you say all of these people will be gone and it's like you make

02:40:45.460 it sound like we're going to get a big massive cartoonishly big vacuum cleaner and then just

02:40:49.860 like clean up all of all of the uh all of the bureaucrats we don't like and all the judges we

02:40:54.580 don't like and all of the all the people we don't like who are you know making decisions in this

02:40:59.060 country and and that's kind of always been my sticking point with the 50th state argument it's

02:41:04.000 like even if we get a state system even when we get a constitution if even if we get all these

02:41:07.820 things the canadian people aren't going anywhere the buildings aren't going anywhere and unfortunately

02:41:13.100 for us the people who are already in the state buildings or in the you know provincial and

02:41:18.560 municipal and federal buildings they're probably going to get first dibs at whatever sort of

02:41:23.740 authority will be handed out under the new system um yeah so they may they may have first dibs but

02:41:31.660 what will happen is that we'll have a system of checks and balances which we don't have now

02:41:36.780 Now we have a system of first-class crown politicians, which are above the law.

02:41:45.560 You know, they're not accountable.

02:41:46.900 And we have an entire system of bureaucracy, which feeds off of that unaccountability.

02:41:51.640 And then we have the second-class or third-class citizens, which are the subjects, which are us, right?

02:41:57.180 We are the ones that can talk all day, not really be able to do anything,

02:42:01.360 because constitutionally and legislatively, we have no power aside from vote once every four

02:42:08.360 years or make yourself available to vote. And then once you're available to vote, though,

02:42:13.640 you're, of course, up against the 20 families and the Laurentians. But as far as the bureaucracy

02:42:19.680 goes, they'll be in a position of being equal to all the people for the first time, because now

02:42:25.800 we have a governance system that isn't equal. It's a, it's a class system. And so, and this is

02:42:31.040 all like legislatively. Um, so you have a, so in this case, uh, in the event that we did have this

02:42:39.900 movement, there would be a process of transition, but all those people being accountable, they would

02:42:45.940 know, they wouldn't last very long. Like they would now be able to be pulled into a court system,

02:42:50.240 which is now a separate arm of judiciary that isn't sworn to the crown, but instead is sworn

02:42:57.020 to the people, right? And that's the big difference. You systemically change the core

02:43:04.100 of how the society operates, where the power is derived from the people rather than from

02:43:09.980 the constitutional crown that actually puts a person, a man, as God. We literally live in a

02:43:18.500 society where you can't even be a true christian and be a canadian because you actually have god

02:43:25.500 under the crown instead of being state and you know state and religion should be separated that's

02:43:31.520 that's the way it is the united states but they put god as supreme for their constitution okay

02:43:37.180 okay whereas in canada we put the crown and the king as supreme and people make their allegiance

02:43:43.280 to that they don't make it to the people okay i would actually i would yeah i'd like to actually

02:43:49.620 jump in here sure you brought up a lot of great stuff jonathan so yeah i think we're going to go

02:43:53.880 around around uh around the horn real quick lee you go and then we're going to go to fortisex

02:43:58.780 so um and i'm glad that there is actually a 51st stater in here um because i have been asking

02:44:06.520 this question a lot of the time, and I am a Canadian loyalist, and I am concerned if we did

02:44:13.420 become the 51st state, and maybe you can answer this. I think that the people of Quebec already

02:44:20.400 struggle as a province within Canada to protect their cultural identity and maintaining this

02:44:26.880 distinct society while existing as a province within Canada. How much more concerned should

02:44:32.800 they be if canada were annexed by the u.s an english dominated country when it came to

02:44:39.140 protecting their own cultural not even as canada as a whole but them solely as a province um they're

02:44:45.620 very uh die hard about protecting their culture their uh their language um so what would that look

02:44:53.020 like so uh a couple oh sorry i thought that was yeah yeah sure yeah i think it was but just to

02:45:01.800 kind of like uh reiterate lee's point because you were talking about how you know we're going to be

02:45:07.600 here in canada we're third class citizens like you know we're underneath all these different

02:45:12.060 layers of uh of sort of power and i bet you could probably find an american who would make some sort

02:45:18.060 of argument like that or i guess you know to think of it in a different in sort of different terms

02:45:24.600 what i'm worried about becoming part of america is you know some people make the argument that

02:45:30.180 there's also foreign interference going on uh in in congress in washington dc and they claim they

02:45:37.300 cite the claim that there's a lot of millions and millions of dollars going uh coming from israel to

02:45:43.420 influence american politicians and we're not here to talk about that but the point is is like

02:45:48.000 you know how many different layers of interests are happening in america already and then in canada

02:45:54.240 you we have our own layering of interests where there's the laurentian elites interests and then

02:45:58.940 there's quebec interests and then there's maybe like you know majority of voters in ontario and

02:46:03.540 quebec interests and then there's alberta's interests and then you know if you add america

02:46:08.760 we're part of america now now you're going to put all of the american interests just on top of all

02:46:14.780 of that and then who is at the bottom again i'm not sure but like you know quebec is somewhere

02:46:18.560 in there like i'm concerned how uh just kind of support lee's point how like that like how how do

02:46:24.980 we the the sort of mess of different interests already happening in canada how does the you know

02:46:30.700 becoming part of america alleviate any of that and not potentially even welcome more um more to pile

02:46:37.120 on uh with you know canada being underneath you could add the natives into that as well

02:46:43.380 oh of course i forgot them they're at the very bottom i apologize they're at the bottom of the

02:46:47.280 totem pole um yeah but yeah go ahead jonathan so in canada natives are are in far worse shape 0.66

02:46:54.900 than in the United States. There hasn't been any native wars in the United States since the 1920s,

02:47:01.140 and they've been largely resolved to be able to create nations within nations,

02:47:06.280 nations within the nation, sorry, and several of them have formed. They're able to do their

02:47:11.880 own taxation and everything, whereas in Canada, I don't have to go on about the displacement and

02:47:18.240 and how they've basically been totally screwed but uh regardless um first thing is that in the

02:47:25.120 event of uh forming a 51st state uh canada constitutional convention process and in that

02:47:32.960 process we're forming a state constitution that's where uh all the goodies that are canadian

02:47:40.000 be implemented uh the only thing is that we can't uh implement something in our constitution which

02:47:46.720 goes against the federal constitution of the united states which is all the good ones that we know

02:47:51.120 right like freedom of speech and guns and everything else right but uh the the state

02:47:55.680 constitutions that exist within the united states state to state are very unique to each state

02:48:02.480 and largely because it reflects the people of that state and so there's going to be an opportunity

02:48:09.120 for canadians to be able to do something unique in that our constitution could incorporate

02:48:16.160 public health care which is something we all know this is something that that is that's probably one

02:48:21.040 of the things about Canada is that in our articles of constitution we actually do

02:48:30.640 health care as a part of it and we can continue that but it'll be something for

02:48:35.760 the nation to decide but as far as the distinction amongst the regions

02:48:42.240 that's largely going to be resolved by the application of the United States district system.

02:48:48.060 So the United States has multiple layers of these systems.

02:48:52.640 And these district systems are unique to the United States.

02:48:55.920 It's not like Canada.

02:48:58.160 So Canada has a system that was handed down from design, right, the constitutional monarchy and whatnot.

02:49:06.840 not. When the United States first formed in their first constitution, they failed because

02:49:15.020 they tried to copy that. And then they knew that this isn't going to work. And then they

02:49:19.840 created this new one, which we all know today, that has been successful for hundreds of years.

02:49:24.720 But the district system would resolve the issue that you brought up about Quebec, where

02:49:30.780 They would be a unique district based on likeness and peers.

02:49:36.460 There would probably be approximately four, maybe five districts across Canada.

02:49:42.220 And there would be different districts for different types of things.

02:49:44.340 There would be judiciary districts, there would be voting districts and so forth.

02:49:49.280 I don't want to go into all the details.

02:49:51.540 But yeah, through that application of these laws, the United States system, we would be

02:49:58.080 able to reorganize how canadian people work together but in a unified way okay there you've

02:50:06.000 brought up a lot here i i kind of want to uh well actually let's go to to fortisax and then uh lee

02:50:14.960 you can jump in and then uh jason but let's go to fortisax right now so one of my issues with

02:50:23.280 systemic critiques of the canadian system is really an issue that i have with systemic

02:50:28.240 critiques of many other western countries because almost everything that is at fault in canada

02:50:36.000 legally constitutionally uh in terms of its leadership you can find pretty much everywhere

02:50:41.200 else um and i'll push back on jonathan's vision of the united states in that it almost seems

02:50:48.640 utopian to me um a lot of the implication i'm getting from this argument is that canadian

02:50:54.800 political leaders will be held accountable uh for their actions you know with the argument that

02:50:59.760 people have more access to the political process but what i would actually say is like kind of this

02:51:05.920 what if kind of this biggest issues is not necessarily institutional it's that canadians

02:51:10.560 do not have a tradition of civic participation civic participation is aggressively pushed

02:51:16.240 in u.s schools in u.s uh culture they have a very long tradition of civics of going attending towel

02:51:24.720 hall meetings so the idea you know i mean that that this has been offloaded to an institutional

02:51:31.200 problem is not necessarily accurate or really reflective of it um would a system that is so

02:51:37.920 much better than ours allow for an election to be stolen by donald trump in 2020 would it have

02:51:43.680 allowed the biden administration to have overstepped almost all of its boundaries when it came to the

02:51:49.680 jurisdictions within the states withholding federal aid to red states this idea that it's

02:51:59.360 this sort of totally decentralized mess does not actually track with reality and again you mention

02:52:06.640 that the canadian constitution that the canadian system is inherently tied to the crown but

02:52:12.560 But functionally, Canada is a parliamentary republic.

02:52:15.660 Let's be real here.

02:52:16.900 Most of this is symbolic.

02:52:18.740 When people make an oath to the king, they're making an oath to tradition.

02:52:21.860 They're not getting on their knee and saying, King Charles III, I solemnly swear to defend your person and your family, your noble house, like this is a game of thrones or something to that effect.

02:52:36.820 I mean, I wouldn't mind that.

02:52:38.320 I think that'd be kind of cool.

02:52:39.280 But that's not objectively how the Canadian system functions. And to your point where you say that it would actually lead to a more unified country, the reality is having a monarch actually puts an accountable face to the whole system because you can point your finger and say it was this guy's government.

02:53:00.820 It was his majesty's government at the time who is directly responsible for the unwise or foolish decisions during this time.

02:53:12.600 So, like, I'm just not seeing it.

02:53:15.420 And to your point, too, where you say, well, the district system would fix all of this.

02:53:19.980 The separation of federal and state power hasn't really stopped federal overreach over the last few decades.

02:53:26.100 You can look at Ruby Ridge.

02:53:27.380 You can look at Waco.

02:53:28.260 you can look at the fact that the federal government ensure that all of the national

02:53:33.480 guards of the states are subject to being effectively controlled by the feds at any time

02:53:38.140 so yes symbolically u.s states have their own militaries in the form of national guards the

02:53:43.040 whole militia system for states evolved into the national guard system which can be controlled by

02:53:49.560 the fed at any time so when you talk about quebec and having a better opportunity within

02:53:56.240 the US constitutional framework to protect its culture and identity. That's what the

02:54:00.720 Louisianians said. And what happened was the federal government encouraged the mass settlement

02:54:05.620 of Anglo-Americans to Louisiana. And that completely wiped them off the face of the 1.00

02:54:10.240 earth. Matter of fact, the French in Louisiana are 1% of the entire population. 1% of that

02:54:15.860 entire population speaks French. So even those, the majority of those Americans of French heritage

02:54:21.040 don't even speak their own historic language and there's no reason to believe that the federal

02:54:27.100 government wouldn't do this to canada with the explicit purpose of garnering that unity and

02:54:33.440 ensuring some sense of homogeneity across the continent because as a country is massive and

02:54:38.460 you have all of these different population groups there is a tendency to homogenize there's a

02:54:43.280 tendency to utilize so in a twisted way this idea that the decentralization on that federal model

02:54:50.040 will lead to better protections for distinct societies and regions that just doesn't track

02:54:56.920 with how the u.s has operated in its 275 years of existence um it's just not how it is

02:55:03.340 yeah i want jonathan to respond to that and then i think we'll go to jason but i i think you bring

02:55:10.880 up a lot of good points there for the sacks especially with the we're on youtube so the

02:55:15.840 the theory that some people think that the 2020 election uh was stolen um because i do think a lot

02:55:22.120 of the 51st first state arguments are very like you know rose-colored glasses very optimistic

02:55:27.400 and uh you know to to do the counterpoint to that the very cynical side of that which is

02:55:32.860 washington dc sees us as natural resources and territory the needs of 40 million canadians is

02:55:38.960 not really that important to them they'll kind of deal with that later um so i jonathan i'd love to

02:55:43.920 hear your kind of response to some of what uh fortesac said to kind of add some cynicism to the

02:55:48.520 sort of um uh utopian sort of uh flavor that you have of becoming the 51st state and then we'll go

02:55:56.020 to jason yeah so you know people who follow the 51st aren't necessarily uh uh oblivious to all

02:56:05.600 the issues and all the problems but they also see like they see it almost like

02:56:10.960 trying to think of a better analogy never mind analogy I'll just talk uh so so you know they

02:56:19.200 know about the problems and and it's not about um Trump or any particular uh figure per se it's

02:56:26.840 it's about a better system for the people to actually have uh rights and freedoms and actual

02:56:33.980 sovereignty uh something that Canadians believe that they had up until a few years ago

02:56:39.120 in the Canadian system, you talked about the system being largely symbolic. That's just the

02:56:48.180 case. The actual oath is to King Charles. They make the oath to the king a swear of allegiance,

02:56:56.080 and then they make the oath of secrecy, and then they make the oath to 338 of them do it.

02:57:02.440 And when they do that, that's why we can have traitors and nobody talks.

02:57:06.020 It's a system where we have permissions, we don't have rights.

02:57:12.220 And because of that difference, we have no recourse.

02:57:15.680 We have no immune system when we're captured by tyranny.

02:57:21.940 In the United States, they got problems.

02:57:24.880 And yeah, things go wrong.

02:57:26.360 But they have a system of checks and balances where there is recourse.

02:57:30.700 there is a judiciary arm that's separate from all that in order to be able to bring about justice for

02:57:36.520 the wrongs that are done. And so with that kind of system, you can imagine just like, I mean,

02:57:42.660 you can see we've all been under the same Marxist attack, like both the United States and Canada.

02:57:48.060 Canada has gone much further down, but the reason it's gone further is because there's no immune

02:57:53.040 system to be able to go against in our system. In the United States, though, we're seeing that

02:57:58.700 immune system right in front of us happening. They, the people were able to actually elect

02:58:04.020 a president who, uh, basically is leading a counter revolution. Um, that's effectively

02:58:12.220 helping to, uh, disinfect what's happened to their society. Whereas in Canada, you just don't

02:58:19.020 have an option. Okay. I want to go back to something you just said there. Cause it was

02:58:22.840 very interesting you essentially said because of the way that politicians that uh sorry members

02:58:30.220 of parliament swear an oath they can get away with being traitors or something like that can

02:58:35.580 you kind of dig into that of like the open secrecy because because my whole point is

02:58:39.880 are like you know there can't be traitorous devious uh politicians in america who say that

02:58:47.520 they're going to tell the truth and then don't you know like a like what specifically though

02:58:54.020 is superior in america that canada doesn't have so the scenario i just i just described of the

02:59:03.280 oath of secrecy and their oath to the to the crown means that they have no uh allegiance to

02:59:09.240 the people whereas in the united states their their oath is to the people when they go as

02:59:14.620 representatives they are duly elected by the people and they they hold that with pride as

02:59:19.840 part of the system but i agree there's there's definitely going to be bad people in there but

02:59:23.840 there is a system of accountability it only took two people to to haul trump to into court right

02:59:29.940 so there's there's all these systems allowing people to actually take action if they want to

02:59:34.860 in canada if you've ever tried you find out very quickly just how tight the chains are around your

02:59:40.260 neck okay do you mind if i yeah i saw daniel's i saw daniel's hand pop up i'm curious if daniel

02:59:47.780 you want to jump on it first i don't have a ton of time greg if i could okay sure do you have to

02:59:53.420 leave very soon but i absolutely can dovetail on what jonathan said and i think daniel might

02:59:59.180 appreciate or be able to comment on mine as well okay sure we'll hear from you jason we appreciate

03:00:03.220 your time so let's go to jason thank you greg because i actually want to answer your question

03:00:07.880 You asked a very good question, why is the U.S. system a little bit different than Canada and can get rid of corruption when Canada can't?

03:00:15.000 I'm just going to point you to the biggest difference here.

03:00:17.960 It's the RCMP.

03:00:19.040 The first letter of the RCMP is Royal, Royal Canadian Mounted Police.

03:00:23.000 They do an allegiance to themselves, not even to the Crown, if you actually look at their oath.

03:00:28.180 And they have a secrecy thing.

03:00:30.460 So that's a big difference between the U.S. and Canada

03:00:33.180 is they actually have police enforcement

03:00:35.540 that isn't having an allegiance to anybody other than the people.

03:00:39.100 A couple more points here, and then I'll have to run.

03:00:41.740 Republic, that word actually means representation of the public.

03:00:45.400 That's where that word comes from, and that's what a republic is.

03:00:48.820 And when you have a republic, you have things like recall.

03:00:51.720 You have elected senators.

03:00:53.060 You have elected judges.

03:00:54.140 You have elected sheriffs.

03:00:55.520 This is law enforcement again.

03:00:57.160 so when you have elected law enforcement they are equal to the people and we don't have to do a 1667

03:01:04.860 u.s style conversion to the republic we can do a 2025 jamaica style conversion to a republic

03:01:13.020 they're doing it right now as we're sitting there having this debate and conversation

03:01:17.420 jamaica is moving over to a republic peacefully through a process through their parliament

03:01:23.040 That's the modern way of doing that.

03:01:24.880 And it actually has support because it is the people's vote.

03:01:30.000 So what I want to put out there is the U.S. did a constitutional republic, which was a nice experiment.

03:01:35.400 And we see how it works.

03:01:36.640 And it's not perfect, but it did work.

03:01:38.540 But the proposal here for Canada is a constitutional democratic republic.

03:01:42.880 It's slightly different.

03:01:44.380 The democratic republic portion means created, crafted, and voted on by the people.

03:01:49.700 Not forefathers, not a bunch of guys sit in the back room to put it together that required 27 amendments after they did it.

03:01:55.940 It's a democratic process.

03:01:57.640 So if the people sit down and participate, and we are all forefathers in the new system,

03:02:03.140 we will put things like recall, real recall, not the fake one that we see here in Alberta at 40%, but 20%.

03:02:09.200 We have judges elected, we have senators elected, and we have law enforcement elected

03:02:14.500 because it's under that system of republic that they're actually accountable to the people.

03:02:19.480 So that answers your question, Greg. Why is the U.S. able to fish out corruption? Well, they actually go after congressmen. They go after senators, the FBI. They actually are accountable to the people. And this is where I think we would actually have a really good chance on fixing Canada and getting rid of this problem.

03:02:36.840 And then my last point, because I said three and then I have to run. The king does have power. He's never executed it. And unfortunately, I want to kind of highlight, he should have. He should have executed some power when Trudeau would not listen to the people, when they had genuine concerns in Ottawa.

03:02:53.460 and the federal court agrees the Mosley decision was very clear that the government overreached

03:03:02.160 they should not have done the emergencies act and they should have liaisoned with the people better

03:03:06.420 that's an example of when the in case of emergency break glass and have the king step in should have

03:03:12.760 taken place the king should have actually stepped in and had a conversation with Trudeau and said

03:03:17.840 no you got to listen to the people but that's where the king's power was not executed and it

03:03:23.100 should have been executed so this is a great example of how it is exactly an elite system

03:03:28.700 they do work together and i'm sorry i'm going to throw another point because it just hit me

03:03:32.860 we just witnessed carney not elected and he's in power and he's in power because of our current

03:03:40.140 system he's appointed by the governor general by the request of the party that wouldn't happen in

03:03:46.140 a republic it would be the president it would be another person who was elected because the entire 0.60

03:03:51.660 succession of power is an elected position the head of state of canada is a king not the prime

03:03:58.220 minister the head government is the prime minister and currently in canada we have two unelected

03:04:05.180 leaders the head of state the head of government that wouldn't happen under a republic so i hope

03:04:10.620 those kind of covered some of those questions you had there greg because that is how we get

03:04:14.380 true accountability is we have elected people who are accountable to the people in law enforcement

03:04:19.660 in the courts and in the senate and right now canada doesn't have that

03:04:23.820 all right jason we appreciate your time um i definitely want to hear uh from the loyalists

03:04:32.420 after all of that they're they're they're ragging on the king they're ragging on the queen

03:04:36.980 they think this system sucks guys what do you think fortisax i want to go to actual actually 0.78

03:04:42.320 i want to go to daniel first we haven't heard from him yeah go do daniel first 0.94

03:04:45.500 hopefully he's okay do i sound better this time i think so i had to jump in and out a few times

03:04:53.640 can you hear me uh it it sounds good so far yeah okay um i don't know where to start there was a

03:05:01.960 lot that went on there uh just i want to rewind to jonathan's point about the u.s like

03:05:10.880 the the utopian vision of the american system is like the is on full display like i feel like

03:05:22.960 in the not so recent past it would have been very uh much accepted that the the u.s system

03:05:30.880 is completely dysfunctional like do we are we going to forget about uh the you know the 2020

03:05:37.860 election the the the russia gate persecution of president trump that's completely unfounded

03:05:44.980 the weaponization of institutions are we going to pretend that there isn't foreign influence

03:05:50.280 in the american system are we gonna we're just gonna like cast off that uh there's issues of

03:05:57.280 sovereignty in canada without you know accepting that those same uh issues of sovereignty are

03:06:04.320 facing every other western country including the united states like it's it's it's very similar to

03:06:13.240 our previous debate earlier tonight about separation it's just we we bring forward a

03:06:20.280 bunch of problems with uh the system or uh the politics and then we just point to a solution

03:06:29.240 that's kind of half-baked i would say um as if it solves all these problems and doesn't come with a

03:06:37.320 myriad of its own um so like i i'm very apprehensive of joining the u.s i think it is as i noted right

03:06:48.560 off the top in my opening statements i think it's a portrayal of our ancestors uh i think that they

03:06:56.560 had a point when they decided to found this country in stark opposition to the American

03:07:02.120 experiment, in lay, entrenching our values of peace, order, and good governance, rejecting

03:07:11.940 radical liberalism in favor of tradition and heritage to preserve the interests of our

03:07:22.320 canadian people uh and i am very skeptical of how that would persevere if we adopted

03:07:31.320 or allowed ourselves to be annexed by our other neighbors um i mostly agree with with

03:07:41.440 four sacks i think the the the comments have been made both are a bit uh absurd uh assuming that

03:07:49.860 uh american politicians are above corruption because they don't have a specific oath of

03:07:55.580 secrecy to the to the king is a bit strange um i think uh organized corruption is uh an affliction

03:08:05.260 of all government systems and is kind of an inevitability of uh power manifesting itself

03:08:12.860 the best we can hope for

03:08:16.000 regardless of system is

03:08:17.580 to elect men 0.78

03:08:20.060 of character

03:08:20.700 that can go

03:08:24.120 against such urges

03:08:25.660 but this is

03:08:28.000 an inevitable problem of

03:08:29.480 power

03:08:30.320 and to many of

03:08:33.800 Jason's points

03:08:34.600 I'm generally apprehensive

03:08:37.800 of this kind of populist

03:08:40.180 rhetoric around

03:08:41.720 radical democratization of society there's a reason

03:08:46.580 our society was not set up this way despite

03:08:50.280 having the American project to

03:08:53.340 look at as we were creating our systems

03:08:57.640 I generally drive to a more

03:09:00.960 elite theory view of

03:09:05.120 society I don't think change is made

03:09:08.040 by the masses

03:09:09.940 I think change is

03:09:12.340 generally made by

03:09:14.240 strong leaders

03:09:16.580 of good character

03:09:17.580 with a vision, with people

03:09:20.320 following them

03:09:22.680 not

03:09:24.080 the opposite

03:09:26.400 so I think we have

03:09:30.180 a strong system with poor

03:09:32.300 leaders as I've kind of

03:09:34.560 come back to over and over

03:09:36.320 again throughout this space

03:09:37.820 yeah i i want i want to jump to uh fortis acts then we'll get back to some of the 51st staters

03:09:45.000 but um one thing i wanted to throw in there it is um is uh jason you're referring to how well

03:09:54.000 in the states you know there's much more of a system of accountability to hold people accountable

03:09:58.420 and um i think that's you know to give us sort of like one liner meme to this whole thing

03:10:06.160 A lot of the 51st staters are like, yes, we just need the American Constitution, and then that's going to solve all of our problems. 0.94

03:10:13.020 And I look at the state of demoralized, fearful Canadians, and I say, no, we actually need American bravado within the actual people of Canada.

03:10:23.660 You know, because one of the most detestable things I've seen since joining politics is the apathy of so many Canadian citizens, where I'll say, hey, look, look at our media.

03:10:33.980 It's purchased, it's paid for by the government.

03:10:37.220 This is something that happens in communist countries like North Korea and Russia.

03:10:42.220 Yeah, so what? I don't care.

03:10:44.120 Hey, look at this guy.

03:10:45.640 I remember when I was first talking about the SNC-Lavalin scandal. 0.98

03:10:49.580 And I could barely even get my friends and family to give a shit about any of this. 0.96

03:10:54.180 And when you port it over to America, they're like, what? 0.98

03:10:58.880 They violated the Constitution.

03:11:00.160 They're much more animated.

03:11:01.400 And I think this is something that Fortisax brought up earlier, which is like there's this civic participation.

03:11:06.120 There's this sort of like activity.

03:11:08.460 There's this animation.

03:11:10.040 There's this sort of autonomy to Americans where they treat their politics like a sport.

03:11:16.080 They treat the voting like a sport.

03:11:18.040 They're very animated.

03:11:19.140 And they say, oh, my God, did they lie? 0.92

03:11:21.480 Are they corrupt?

03:11:22.300 Like, let's look into the details.

03:11:24.100 And this is something that animates the American people.

03:11:28.520 All right.

03:11:29.120 It's not the actual constitution that does this.

03:11:31.500 It's the people that are actively engaging in holding their, you know, their leaders accountable.

03:11:38.300 And when I see this whole situation of the 51st state talk, I'm I think, OK, we're under a state system now.

03:11:46.660 We still have apathetic people.

03:11:48.280 We still have apathetic people all across the 51st state of Canada.

03:11:51.960 So we're just going to get exploited and taken advantage of again by whoever decides to be in charge.

03:11:58.460 Or at least like why I'm hopeful with this 51st state conversation is it's getting us to actually think about this stuff and hopefully have a more like stronger sort of bravado among Canadians to try and actually hold our people accountable and kind of take, you know, have more civic activity with Canadians trying to actually take a hold of these institutions and of our systems.

03:12:23.620 but um i uh i know john i know uh we've been talking a lot i do want to answer that because

03:12:30.380 because you called go ahead jason go ahead have to run sorry brother um you nailed it you absolutely

03:12:35.600 nailed it in that last little bit there uh we'll be exploited so here's what i propose to canada

03:12:42.200 let's pay attention to this i strongly believe canadians are the most per capita wealthiest

03:12:49.420 people on earth with future and current potential when it comes to resources i strongly believe that

03:12:57.540 what trump is up to is he wants to take our resources he wants the northwest passage to be

03:13:02.800 open and he wants to open that trade route because that is going to be trillions and trillions of

03:13:06.980 dollars if canadians could understand this and say hey let's get a divorce from the king 1.00

03:13:12.620 let's renegotiate provincial deals let's develop our resources let's open up a churchill port

03:13:19.160 Let's become the next trade route for Europe and Western Asia, or Eastern Asia, sorry. 0.94

03:13:28.040 We would be far more individuals on our own accord, not with somebody else taking care of this.

03:13:34.900 We are absolutely in a position as Canadians to go ahead and do this development.

03:13:40.340 We can become not just a breadbasket for a lot of places.

03:13:43.160 We can become the energy and economic engine of Canada, not just Canada, but the globe, if we decided to go ahead and develop our resources.

03:13:53.840 Trump wants us because he knows exactly what I just said is true.

03:13:58.120 He knows that we have the passage.

03:14:00.880 He knows that we have the resources, and he knows that he needs it in order for America to do exactly what he's suggesting they do, become a strong industrialized country again.

03:14:11.460 they need the raw materials from us so if we grow up get out of the nest say goodbye to the king

03:14:18.280 do not jump in bed with another pretty looking lady because we think it's going to be great 0.99

03:14:22.700 and we just do this independently i think alberta would be happy because we're now independent of

03:14:27.720 the king and we're going ahead and developing our resources all provinces can sit down and do what

03:14:33.620 section 91 and 92 really meant and be sovereign and go ahead and open up to global markets this

03:14:39.760 is what trump wants this is why he is saying the 51st state and greg you nailed it we would have

03:14:46.040 been miserable under biden and if canada joins the u.s we're two socialists it would be a democratic

03:14:52.880 nightmare it would be a harris government next this is not the way canada needs to go forward

03:14:59.480 we need to have a different system where we take care of ourselves collectively and we can become

03:15:04.320 great partners to the U.S. and the rest of the world. Per capita, we are the wealthiest people

03:15:09.680 on earth. This is why this is happening to us right now. We just haven't woken up, took the

03:15:14.820 confidence to take those baby steps out of the mummy and daddy's bedroom, which is the king, 0.92

03:15:19.660 and go ahead and try this on ourself. Now, if we do that for 10, 20, 30 years, and it doesn't work

03:15:24.740 out, the Canadian experiment under Republic doesn't work out, we always have the option to go to the

03:15:29.900 us and that's part of the u.s constitution they'll take canada at any time but let's not be that

03:15:36.260 meme that we all laugh at which is the guy turning his head looking at that girl that looks pretty

03:15:40.760 while he's walking with another one let's divorce the king redo our system and get rid of some of

03:15:46.180 these people and the people are the lieutenant government the governor general and the king

03:15:51.280 system and let's do this on our own and let's see if we can grow the f up at this point jamaica's 0.76

03:15:56.300 doing it that's yeah same path so let's let's consider that i think everybody on all sides

03:16:02.100 would would love a canada to stay together we kept our culture we didn't merge with the u.s

03:16:06.640 and we became their economic neighbor that's far stronger than we are now we didn't give energy to

03:16:13.080 ukraine when we should have we didn't give energy to europe when we should have and that's because

03:16:18.080 of the current system that we have we are being suppressed and it's kind of frustrating to me that

03:16:22.900 Canadians haven't seen that potential. We are so wealthy that the U.S. is willing to even

03:16:28.020 use economic force against us in order to take us. Now, last warning, Carney and his cronies

03:16:35.080 from the globalists and the global elites, they know this too. This is exactly why they're trying

03:16:42.000 to tie Canada to global debt. They're trying to get us into the International Monetary Fund,

03:16:47.760 European debt, and this is exactly what the loony dollar system that he just released

03:16:52.260 on March 12th, please watch that episode, is meant to do.

03:16:56.260 It's meant to bring us to European debt.

03:17:00.180 We are going to owe all our resources of future output to Europe 0.99

03:17:04.100 if Carney gets his way.

03:17:06.040 And if we do the same thing to the U.S.,

03:17:09.020 we're still going to be a suppressed people.

03:17:10.940 We need to break those chains from globalists, from the monarch,

03:17:14.520 and do not get intoxicated by the U.S. promise.

03:17:17.920 And we can do this ourselves.

03:17:19.080 So I'm going to keep pushing for a constitutional democratic republic.

03:17:24.400 I think our way forward, and I think Alberta, Quebec, and other provinces

03:17:28.300 will absolutely love the freedom that comes with that

03:17:30.880 because it allows us all to develop our resources, do internal trade,

03:17:35.280 and become a powerhouse in the rest of the world.

03:17:38.800 We could outpace the U.S., and this could be why Trump is so gung-ho

03:17:43.840 about trying to get our resources.

03:17:45.060 on a per capita basis we are the richest uh people on earth and we are definitely suppressed

03:17:51.160 um i do have 11 minutes but that's kind of where i stand on this let's have a better canada and not

03:17:57.120 go through the way awesome awesome thanks for your time jason um we're we're gonna go to fortisax

03:18:04.340 next and then chad who's been waiting patiently with his hands up and then we'll go back to

03:18:08.460 jonathan um i just wanted to comment on one thing which i totally agree with and i think should be

03:18:14.180 at least a conclusion that both sides of this debate can understand which is uh right now

03:18:20.300 the 51st staters have this sort of like desperate and like needy attitude of like oh like come save

03:18:27.220 us trump please please please and the thing is is like that is really not a good posture and attitude

03:18:32.020 when going to a negotiating table you know if we go if we go to the negotiating table tomorrow

03:18:37.180 and that's our attitude we're going to become a territory not a state with no voting rights

03:18:42.560 whatsoever. So I think that either side of the sort of equation, it's like, we need to sort of

03:18:48.560 like, um, believe in ourselves and realize we're self-sustaining and not have this sort of like

03:18:55.400 desperate needy attitude and really kind of pull our pants up, uh, you know, and play hard to get

03:19:01.500 the very least. Um, cause yeah, it's not a good posture and attitude to go in towards a negotiating

03:19:07.300 table at the very least. Um, and we need to be taken seriously. We're a rich nation, like you

03:19:11.360 were saying so let's go to fortisax then let's go to chad and then jonathan oh man i'm itching

03:19:19.540 i'm itching to bite my teeth and sink my teeth into this so where do i start first and foremost

03:19:26.160 i'm not a liberal democrat i don't believe in equality i do not believe in populism i think

03:19:37.560 that the limits of populism have shown themselves over the last 10 and 15 years. I feel like people

03:19:44.260 do not, liberal Democrats have this tendency of placing abstract principles and laws to the same

03:19:51.660 level of God. They talk about inalienable human rights, the same way that they would talk about

03:19:56.520 the universal law of gravity, or something like that, or something to that effect. They think

03:20:01.440 that these things just sort of exist out there in the ether. So I'm going to start saying that

03:20:06.000 laws are literally just words on paper they can change on a whim a constitution and a legal system

03:20:12.640 to protect you is only good as the people who actively defend it they're only as good as the

03:20:18.200 people who engage in that civic participation are willing to fight and die for those principles

03:20:24.340 that is the basis of every single republic that has ever existed i find that when people speak of

03:20:30.760 universal mass democracy like the system we have here they're correlating historic republics with

03:20:37.220 the system we have now the system we have now is not a historic liberal democratic republic at all

03:20:42.980 republics historically have always had an elite the united states itself was a one-party state

03:20:50.420 until the split between the federalists and the republicans and there are reasons for this there

03:20:54.980 are reasons for not scaling it down to the lowest common denominator and does that mean that people

03:20:59.580 didn't hold town halls or that they didn't have any say or that they didn't elect their sheriffs

03:21:03.220 on a more local level. No, they did. They did do these things. But the fact of the matter is,

03:21:08.720 in a liberal democratic system, especially in a universal mass democracy, which is where

03:21:13.480 everybody's vote counts, power always concentrates to the top. Whether people like it or not,

03:21:19.820 the richest people rule the roost. Trump did not solely get elected via populism. He got elected

03:21:25.560 because he had palantir the paypal mafia peter teal elon musk and more recently uh jeff bezos

03:21:34.200 and mark zuckerberg backing him up that's why he got in because he's a billionaire so there's this

03:21:40.440 idea of power to the people and that and that elites don't have their own game but that they're

03:21:44.460 not playing in their own uh like it's it's just not it's just not how power actually works it's

03:21:51.160 not how the relationship between states and their populations work people have a very romantic view

03:21:56.500 of revolutions the fact of the matter is both the french and american revolutions were not

03:22:03.680 one day the people just got upset and they decided to rise up against the treaty that's

03:22:09.900 all of that was actually decided after the fact those are narratives that were

03:22:14.080 given to the people after the fact and if you don't believe me there are three books on this

03:22:19.760 one of them is called the populist delusion another one is called um revolt of the public

03:22:25.440 and the third one is coup de gras or sorry coup d'etat it explains the uh the actual mechanics

03:22:30.540 of revolutions historically play out or how culture even cultural revolutions and the way

03:22:34.960 that they play out so again if you have a if you have a tweet uh featuring those those books i'd

03:22:42.820 i'd love to yeah you know share that i'll uh i'll i'll i'll do it after the stream because i think

03:22:49.100 that those are very important uh very important reading for the vast majority of people um and

03:22:54.280 even those revolutions even 1776 and the french revolution were not done by the people just one

03:23:00.200 day waking up and killing the king um george washington was one of the richest men in the

03:23:05.220 united states like he's the equivalent of trump today um and it's the same with the other found

03:23:10.640 without the other founding fathers so this wasn't a peasant revolt this wasn't just people going to

03:23:15.640 the polls and deciding, yeah, we're just going to throw off this kind of yoke. It was Aristotle who

03:23:20.880 said that democracies only work when you have a small population, when you have a consensus,

03:23:25.620 and the voting franchise is limited. I'm not a liberal Democrat. I don't really believe in

03:23:29.540 democracy. But if you have a democracy, it cannot be what we currently have. It cannot be and it

03:23:36.120 never has been. The current democratic system that you and I live in right now is not actual

03:23:41.360 reflection of historic democracies at all the republic of venice was not that the roman republic

03:23:47.280 had a senatorial elite actually that grew so corrupt that julius caesar were through it

03:23:52.740 because he was a populist he used populism to overthrow the republic and then uh and then just

03:23:58.080 come out and off the facade all these people had all of this say uh and you know they kept the

03:24:04.200 senate but the fact of the matter is that the power laid in the consul and then the emperor

03:24:10.220 so i you know i agree with you uh i agree with some of this stuff but i'm just like man

03:24:16.900 like they're in my view there is a very liberal uh and i mean classical liberal there's a very

03:24:23.400 classical liberal sort of utopian view of liberal democracy and how she works that's not that's not 0.98

03:24:29.700 how it works and uh just one correction too before i land my plane here jason um it wouldn't have

03:24:35.420 been the king who steps in to uh put trudeau in his place it would have been the governor general

03:24:41.320 um who is appointed at behest of the of the prime minister so it wouldn't have been king charles

03:24:47.240 or sorry i guess who was king at the time the queen i can't remember anyway it wouldn't have

03:24:51.540 been the king it wouldn't have been the royal it would have been the governor general and the only

03:24:55.280 time the governor general has ever interfered with the canadian election was when william leon

03:24:59.820 mackenzie king uh tried to close the parliament because he lost an election and was uh and was

03:25:06.560 trying to save it he lost an election he tried to cancel parliament to stay in power for longer

03:25:11.880 and the governor general said no you're not doing that that's anti-democratic so in this

03:25:15.800 circumstance it was actually the governor general using his powers derived from the king to save

03:25:20.560 canadian democracy and i'll end it there okay so just to comment on that the governor general is

03:25:26.000 the king's representative, the governor general has no power,

03:25:28.740 the governor general listens to the king and the parliament,

03:25:32.000 and they basically, as a liaison between the two,

03:25:34.680 and I don't really mean that the king needed to get involved in Canadian politics,

03:25:39.660 but I absolutely think he should have picked up the phone

03:25:41.820 and told Trudeau to have a conversation with the people.

03:25:45.220 That's what I meant by interfering or getting involved,

03:25:47.960 but not on an actual level where he actually did something like

03:25:51.380 broke parliament or removed the prime minister,

03:25:53.620 but i certainly would have expected some point of him saying hey this is about why did you at

03:25:58.340 least talk to him because he never even did that but that's where i was going with that

03:26:02.440 so in the king being affair was when he refused to call an election not because king lost an

03:26:09.580 election he wanted an election but bing gave the opposition a chance to form government

03:26:15.360 but so i'm just being so who is the authority the the king or the governor general who is the

03:26:21.880 authority here it's they're the same authority well the governor general is the representative

03:26:28.360 of the king in canada correct and also the king is the representative of the people like i feel

03:26:33.180 like that's basic that's like the very basics of monarchy the king represents the people so when

03:26:37.660 you say that a monarchy doesn't represent people that's not actually how it works and most

03:26:41.460 certainly people over the last thousand years would not have looked at it that way well the

03:26:46.460 trend is uh moving to a republic from a monarchy across the world over the last hundred years

03:26:51.660 and there is no vote for the king uh i don't think jamaica is a good standard i don't think

03:26:57.100 your mute is a good standard not the only ones several commonwealth countries that moved to

03:27:03.900 republic they're still common both countries but they do have a republic system who and so just

03:27:11.260 I just wanted to say here before I go, I think Jason did a good job.

03:27:16.640 He lit it up describing the benefits of a republic.

03:27:21.100 And most Commonwealth countries, most former British Empire countries have converted to a republic now.

03:27:29.700 Canada is one of the last ones to remain in the Westminster system where you cannot elect the leader of the country, the prime minister.

03:27:37.680 One of the things I wanted to go to a macro level here

03:27:43.020 And just describe the differences

03:27:45.340 Or discuss the differences between

03:27:47.140 The Greek concept of a sovereign state

03:27:52.560 Versus the Roman Empire concept of a province

03:27:55.960 So like a state by nature is sovereign

03:28:02.140 The people have a distinct culture

03:28:04.900 for the Québécois in the room.

03:28:08.640 I think that's kind of what they've been wanting all along,

03:28:12.460 is to be acknowledged as having a distinct culture,

03:28:16.220 a distinct society, a sovereign society, a sovereign culture.

03:28:20.640 And that is the bedrock of the idea of a state,

03:28:26.120 which came out of the Greek Empire.

03:28:28.260 The concept of a province came out of the Roman Empire,

03:28:31.660 And basically a province is the carving up of an empire to make it more easily governable.

03:28:38.820 So when you study Roman history, you'll study how they carved up their empire into different states,

03:28:46.140 whether it was in the Middle East or across Europe or wherever they carved up their various pieces of their empire.

03:28:55.940 And the one thing I wanted to say about, so going back to Lee, she said something quite a while ago.

03:29:01.660 Like where where would that leave back with in regards to their society?

03:29:06.660 Well, in like their their distinct society, culture, preserving their language, their heritage and things like that is the concept of that is the very concept of a state.

03:29:18.560 And the 10th Amendment in the Constitution of the United States is that the states it doesn't have the word sovereign in it, but it it basically essentially says that the power resides in the states.

03:29:31.660 And then I also want to touch on the fact that I think people have brought up that there's corruption in the United States, but the corruption in the U.S. is in it's in spite of the the republic that they have, the systems that they have, the separation of the pillars of government that they have.

03:29:50.840 it's like there's a difference between um the problems and the corruption being in spite of

03:29:56.800 the system and because of the act and so i think and then addressing what greg had said before is

03:30:05.020 that a lot of the 51st staters um are basically uh fanning their hearts and calling on trump to

03:30:11.720 save the day that's not the sentiment at all actually they're there it's more after the

03:30:16.600 system it's more after the sovereignty like the Alberta sovereignists which I've actually been

03:30:21.600 quite critical of no hold on hold on but would you be saying the same thing romanticizing the

03:30:26.540 American system if Kamala was president if if Kamala was president would people still want the 0.98

03:30:34.820 concept of statehood yes people do want the concept of statehood just because Kamala became

03:30:39.060 the president wouldn't mean that Alberta wouldn't want uh or Quebec wouldn't want um a distinct

03:30:46.380 society like just because um you don't think any of this 51st state hype has to do with the allure

03:30:52.440 of trump who who kind of started this whole conversation no because we made it this predates

03:30:59.620 this yes this this absolutely does predate trump um the idea of of sovereignty i mean

03:31:07.540 we know this with quebec itself it's not the idea of sovereignty though it's it's the idea

03:31:12.420 of annexation which by the way like polls show has less than 10 support amongst the canadian

03:31:19.400 public yeah because you know so all that's a good point and i want to address that really good point

03:31:25.680 um is i would say that this is mostly a western thing i don't think it has a lot of legs although

03:31:33.360 i think jonathan's from uh nova scotia or he's from the maritimes but i would say this is mostly

03:31:39.800 a western canada thing and the the bottom line here's the bottom line and i'll i'll hopefully

03:31:46.780 people walk away with this it's like well we're either going to be ruled by and i've heard this

03:31:51.460 word this uh phrase given a lot we're either going to be ruled by the laurentian elite where

03:31:56.940 we're never going to or we're going to be ruled or or turned by or part of the usa which one and

03:32:03.840 And so it's like, well, which poison do we pick?

03:32:08.220 Not the D.C. elite?

03:32:10.480 Well, that's what I'm saying.

03:32:12.300 I'm acknowledging that point.

03:32:13.820 I'm acknowledging that very point that you're saying right there is that it's kind of like they've got to pick poison, right?

03:32:19.940 It's like, which one would we rather have?

03:32:23.040 Because they're being ruled over anyway.

03:32:25.200 And I'm not saying I agree or disagree.

03:32:28.340 I'm just actually stating the sentiment.

03:32:30.100 I'm just actually articulating what the bottom line of this 51st state stuff is, right?

03:32:37.860 Yeah, so I don't think it's that they're fanning their heart and saying, come rescue us, Trump,

03:32:42.740 because you go tell an Albertan that they're fanning their heart and wanting someone to rescue them

03:32:47.900 when they're an economic powerhouse and they're sick of having a lot of their profits siphoned off and transferred around the country, right?

03:32:56.620 So that wouldn't be sentiment. It would be it would be more of what I articulated just now.

03:33:02.460 That's fair. That's fair. That's that's that's a certain that's a good correction.

03:33:07.660 Although I do kind of I am noticing sort of a pattern here that I think is worth pointing out, which is, you know, you were talking about the theory of statehood versus a province.

03:33:16.960 and i feel like there's this sort of uh contrast between like like the the theory of freedom the

03:33:24.240 theory of sovereignty and this sort of like idealistic or utopian vision of how the system

03:33:29.840 is supposed to work versus sort of a more like realist like pragmatist of like well how does

03:33:34.780 this stuff actually function because at the end of the day yeah but ideas are powerful

03:33:38.700 ideas are powerful like let's not poo poo ideas right i i know they're powerful but again i want

03:33:45.460 to come back to the argument that um these ideas of more sovereignty or more freedom or the first

03:33:52.140 amendment um i feel like a lot of canadians are getting excited at that and we're kind of

03:33:57.520 sidestepping the sort of ongoing problem which is the apathy of canadians the lack of sort of like

03:34:03.420 civic agency to actually want to hold those in power uh accountable but i'm sort of repeating

03:34:08.980 myself now because i brought that up earlier um that being said though i guess to add to add to

03:34:14.180 this sort of um to my argument uh rfk we love rfk um you know he's he was like let's make america

03:34:23.500 healthy again right and he was he kind of joined the sort of mag of movement he's seen as this

03:34:28.720 this big figure and as the sort of what head of health or a health department or wherever it was

03:34:34.440 of america one of his tweets was guys you know what's a big health issue anti-semitism which was

03:34:42.620 totally came out of left field he's talking about seed oils and how we need to keep americans

03:34:47.760 healthy and then all of a sudden he's talking about anti-semitism which i'm sorry that is sort

03:34:51.700 of the path toward violating the first amendment of all americans which is we actually need to

03:34:57.700 control speech around the topic of anti-semitism and if you start to you know if you start to

03:35:02.440 violate the first amendment then it's not a first amendment anymore and that's again to say

03:35:07.020 we can do all this idealism about the states if you'd like but if you actually look at certain

03:35:11.420 some of the things that the trump administration is doing it's very suspect and it's and it's very

03:35:15.740 undermining these so-called principles and once again it's that kind of conflict of the theory

03:35:20.700 and the idealism of freedom and well what's actually happening in function because at the

03:35:25.120 end of the day and i feel like a lot of the loyalists tonight are kind of emphasizing this

03:35:28.960 which is like it's about power it is about these sort of elites it's about the people who are

03:35:33.620 actually pulling the levers and where their hearts at like what what are their priorities

03:35:37.820 what do they want what are their interests and um yeah i really think it comes down to

03:35:43.640 you know how do canadians get their interests met because at the end of the day like you know

03:35:49.500 there needs to be that willingness to do that and uh yeah but we we do gotta wrap it up soon

03:35:55.500 because we've been going for three and a half hours i do want to go over to john john uh do

03:36:00.200 you want to respond to that chad and then we'll go yeah sure i do i do because you kind of asked

03:36:05.300 me to introduce myself and i didn't really want to harp on stuff but i would say that i'm probably

03:36:11.240 the only one in the room that had their bank accounts frozen and is on a lawsuit for protesting

03:36:16.920 i'm being sued for 300 million and i think the sorry 300 million 300 million dollars i'm being

03:36:24.940 sued for for protesting an auto at the freedom convoy so what i want to say about that is not

03:36:32.080 not just a plug for myself guys i'm i didn't bring that up to talk about myself why the reason why

03:36:36.820 i'm bringing that up is because the the uh the premise the underlying assumption the ideology

03:36:43.820 behind that it is is that um this is what i believe is that um our constitutional rights

03:36:51.060 our charter rights and freedoms in canada um come secondary to this what i would think is what we

03:36:58.640 inherited from um you know probably europe or the or the commonwealth or or you know the the

03:37:06.340 british class system is that no no no uh the elites as as um as uh daniel was uh before is that

03:37:16.700 the power lies in the elites and that democracy is a radical uh is a radical idea and law and order

03:37:24.180 comes first and then you get your right second and and the way that this has been articulated is

03:37:30.240 by the people suing me and and a bunch of protesters is that you don't have a constitutional

03:37:37.300 right to loiter you don't have a constitutional right to um cause a nuisance uh where's that in

03:37:45.380 the constitution where's that in the charter of rights and freedoms because they are holding

03:37:49.880 bylaws over the the the uh the charter of rights and freedoms whereas in a different set of

03:37:57.120 ideologies the charter of rights and freedom supersedes bylaws laws it is the supreme law of

03:38:02.660 the land and i want to protest on the road and lawyer i have the right to do that because maybe

03:38:08.960 there's too many people at the protest and the protest is being pushed into the street and i

03:38:12.560 can't get on the sidewalk and not loiter and i can't get on the sidewalk and not block traffic

03:38:16.680 And so that's when my constitutional rights would kick in and then we'd have a discussion about that. That's not the sentiment in Canada. And I'm sure we have a lot of people in the room here, including the loyalists, that sympathized with the protest or maybe they didn't.

03:38:34.360 Maybe they thought, well, you know what, the government said what it said, it did what it did, and if you didn't like it, that's the way it is, because we favor elite rule over democratic rule, and why should the people have a say? And I'll land the plane there.

03:38:48.360 no like we all thought covid was wrong i was there in the streets with you chad

03:38:55.300 uh i just because i prescribed to an elite theory of how power is wielded doesn't mean i

03:39:03.240 agree with all the ways elites wield power but how can you have it both ways how can you say

03:39:09.660 that you do that that's just my power how can you have it both ways though i don't get it

03:39:14.880 so inadian tradition it's pretty it's very simple like this is how i see how the world operates

03:39:21.920 that's like saying uh like i agree with a raccoon being hit by a car because it happened like this

03:39:30.020 is how nature this is the realities of nature and in the modern world right well no i think you're

03:39:37.560 saying that it should be that way not that it is i understand the difference between no no no no no

03:39:43.360 what i'm saying is it is that way and we have to understand how things are and operate within

03:39:52.720 the confines of how power operates just the reality of the situation whether you think

03:40:00.840 it's good or bad is secondary it is what it is so just uh just i think what the government's

03:40:07.980 doing to you is horrible chad like i don't think you deserve to be sued for 300 million dollars 0.98

03:40:14.660 because you uh exercise your civil rights to peaceful protest like that is absurd i can't

03:40:21.820 believe that is even true um tyranny that is definition of tyranny even in the english

03:40:28.460 tradition of modern it's unacceptable in totality well just so you guys know that when they took it

03:40:36.120 to court they they lost their appeal to this ice a judge two judges have have refused their appeal

03:40:45.700 to to take away that that case that's how bad it is and who are those judges people who made their

03:40:52.820 allegiance to the crown so yeah but american judges do questionable decisions every day as well

03:40:59.240 um like oh but that's in spite of the system not because of the system and our system it it it does

03:41:07.200 have the system they're in and like i have experiences within the legal system well like

03:41:12.380 i've i've experienced how uh unfair it can be but as fortisacks alluded to earlier uh like the

03:41:19.880 constitution covid is the perfect example the constitution is not worth the paper it's written

03:41:25.300 on it's only as powerful as the people in charge uh this is where we get back to elite theory like

03:41:32.960 we need to replace the leaders with better men in order to solve this problem it's not about

03:41:41.340 making stronger well through democratic means but the result is a what did chad say a second ago

03:41:52.140 he said we aren't i describing a democracy uh but the difference is i think that leaders lead

03:42:02.320 not the the public pushes leaders like what i know we have young global leaders we have

03:42:10.840 z cabinets don't you remember this yes they are wielding elite theory better than we are

03:42:16.540 i uh yeah and just this is a really this is a really good uh part of the topic i think because

03:42:27.820 um you know what people would try to compare it to january 6 for example and they might say oh

03:42:34.200 there was tyranny uh you know there's a whole bunch of unjust stuff that happened in america

03:42:38.100 too and i think you could actually make a good argument when you bring up things like

03:42:41.140 like waco or even how the kind of um legislative was weaponized against donald trump for example

03:42:48.900 when they were trying to like throw him in jail and give him the mugshot and everything

03:42:51.500 like there certainly is tyrannical things or undemocratic things that happen in the states

03:42:57.180 as well however um chad you're absolutely right in terms of the way that yourself and other

03:43:03.100 i call them political prisoners have been treated in canada and it's very very frustrating because

03:43:09.640 it's like where is the actual justice here where is the justice i was on a live stream

03:43:16.740 last weekend with um archer bavlowski and he chatted for a bit and he was like where is the

03:43:23.920 justice in the country where is the justice and um i don't understand enough about the law

03:43:30.500 and like the differences between america the american justice system and the canadian justice

03:43:37.000 system but that's uh that's certainly something where i feel like the 51st staters may have a

03:43:42.740 point but as i said i don't understand the law in america versus canada i don't know if anyone

03:43:48.160 can kind of hop in here to fill in this uh to fill in kind of answer my question um but i will

03:43:56.420 kind of offer as well once again it's super frustrating because most americans will hear

03:44:01.760 your story chad and be like that's completely ridiculous like that's on like unbelievable

03:44:07.500 and then if i talk to some canadians from high school they'll be like yeah well 0.99

03:44:12.620 covid was a crazy time and it's like that's all you have to fucking say like like you know 0.99

03:44:19.260 fuck you you know like here you're like you're a friend about like you what you're just gonna 1.00

03:44:23.440 watch tv while this is happening this is disgusting um we is chad's uh chad's a listener 1.00

03:44:29.980 now chad i think i don't know if you dropped out but you got a request to uh to speak again

03:44:34.680 can anybody answer that question that has to do with uh how the law works in canada versus america

03:44:41.100 do i sound crazy does this make sense no it totally makes sense it goes back to what i

03:44:46.040 talked about where you know canada is actually ruled by law rather than rule of law we don't

03:44:53.420 have a justice system we have a legal system and it's all you know again it's these judges are

03:45:00.380 appointed by the crown they swear allegiance to the crown the difference of in canada versus

03:45:08.100 the united states and with the formation of constitution and the 51st all the judges would

03:45:14.960 be elected by the people so how do you think those judges are going to perform when there are people

03:45:22.260 that these are judges that the people have selected rather than a crown appointee right

03:45:28.740 so that it's a it's a huge difference and really people in canada back to your thing about apathy

03:45:37.620 this is a symptom of institutionalization like this is part of being canadian and this is by

03:45:43.940 this is meant by design as part of the system of the constitutional monarchy to keep people

03:45:49.140 subjects to keep them unengaged because the only rights we have in legislation are every four years

03:45:55.640 go out and vote so why would they want to upset the electoral autocracy that exists so i i think

03:46:02.740 that that is by design they they purposefully don't teach us civics uh to any adequate degree

03:46:08.680 for us to understand the game that we're playing you know imagine you're you're sitting down with

03:46:14.580 somebody who is a master at the game and you haven't even been told the rules. And that's

03:46:20.940 the situation of the Canadian people. And so they can't care because they don't even know what

03:46:26.000 system they're in. Whereas in the United States, like you said, they're taught that they have to

03:46:33.380 have civics. The system will teach them civics. They will actually know their constitution.

03:46:39.000 go and ask a canadian what their constitution is good luck right so it's uh it's by design and uh

03:46:46.700 and this is part of the problem and back to what jason said um about the republic thing i was

03:46:52.040 wanting to say something about that but we went we aren't talking about stuff so i put up in the

03:46:55.900 nest uh something i wrote up a little while ago i think it was about a month ago uh yeah and uh

03:47:01.620 as basically a vision. Um, so this is my, this is back to you loyalists.

03:47:07.620 This is my challenge to you is my problem is a vision for Canada. Um,

03:47:13.260 so Jason said something about, you know, why don't we do it ourselves?

03:47:16.500 And this is the problem. The people just,

03:47:19.240 and this is why 51st state is attracted, not because of Trump,

03:47:22.420 but because of what they're doing,

03:47:24.240 they have offered vision for the people of creating something great. You know,

03:47:28.920 there is something yeah it is trump's vision yes but it's not it is it is a vision though and and

03:47:35.660 the problem in canada is there's not like there's i mean there's the what we see from the politicians

03:47:41.240 today you know we're going to build the homes and all this other kind of stuff like it is not

03:47:46.160 inspiring this is this is like a vision of of mediocrity and it doesn't inspire anybody and so

03:47:53.220 they look at what's happening in the united states oh 1.5 trillion of new investment wow

03:47:58.020 That sounds pretty good. It's all happening there. What's happening in Canada? Oh, we're

03:48:01.520 spending $6 billion on a defense system that isn't probably going to work because we're in the Arctic

03:48:07.100 North. So there's this disparity that the people can't get passed. And this is part of why so many

03:48:14.860 people attract to the 51st state. And back to what you were saying, Greg, I agree there are some of

03:48:19.900 those out there who are like, Trump, save us. I agree. They're out there. But majority of the

03:48:25.020 51st status who actually are serious about it know that it's actually hard work. They're called

03:48:30.740 traitors every day. It's like being called an anti-vaxxer every day. Remember that? It's the

03:48:36.640 same deal to be in that position, but they are learning more every day and they're passionate

03:48:44.700 about it, but they know it's going to take hard work. It's not something where Trump is going to

03:48:48.280 be able to do it automatically. It's actually going to require the people to actually want it,

03:48:54.700 to have it happen because you can't have no matter what happens whether it's a 51st

03:48:58.780 or whether it's a republic of canada either way you have to have an engaged public you have to

03:49:04.700 have a people to be able to have a republic and right now we are subjects we are subjects in a

03:49:10.300 constitutional monarchy that are taught to be passive and not engage and to be spoon-fed everything

03:49:17.260 just the monarchy will take care of you the monarchy will take care of you is what we're

03:49:21.260 taught generationally like back to you know 40 saxons about our culture that's literally no no

03:49:27.120 that's literally not how things happen we are not taught facility by the constitutional monarchy the

03:49:33.840 lack of interest and education in civics goes back to pure trudeau and the liberals and the

03:49:39.780 cultural revolution that they instated on this country civic participation was much higher in

03:49:45.420 the past. The fact of the matter is that from the 1840s onward, we had the implementation of

03:49:55.180 what we're called responsible government, where democratic reforms were given to the country in

03:50:00.020 a manner not entirely dissimilar from the United States. This is when people begun to participate

03:50:05.240 in elections, and it happened because of two revolutions. Two revolutions happened, namely

03:50:10.700 the upper and lower canada ribbons which then enforced the british uh the british colonial

03:50:16.500 authorities to institute responsible governments and this gave the vote to land owning uh land

03:50:22.660 owning individuals men usually older men uh and uh in a matter identical to the united states or

03:50:28.980 virtually identical to it and also u.s judges are not elected it depends on the state federal judges

03:50:35.740 are not elected they're appointed by the president of which they stay on for life they have to be

03:50:41.360 confirmed by the senate sure but it's a lifetime appointment whereas in canada federal judges last

03:50:46.360 until the age of 75 so like again we're i feel like we're we're going back to square one with

03:50:53.120 the utopian projections uh this is this is utopian projection and a misunderstanding of the canadians

03:50:59.840 and also both the canadian legal system and the u.s legal system have their roots in english

03:51:05.100 common law so yes the u.s legal system is is revolutionary it is uh classical liberal at its

03:51:10.960 origins um but it's based on english common law and it derived from the bill of rights so they're

03:51:15.340 really not that different it is not fault or the responsibility of the constitutional monarchy

03:51:20.880 to have made people docile like that's that's nonsense that started with pierre trudeau all

03:51:26.540 of that started with each successive government after the fact there's nothing to do with our

03:51:30.420 system okay so we're almost going for four hours now so we are going to start to wind things down

03:51:38.340 i want people to start leaving their sort of uh their sort of closing statements with all of this

03:51:43.400 uh we are going to go to uh chad first uh and then we're going to go to daniel tyree

03:51:51.240 and uh yeah so chad go ahead we've been you know a lot's kind of come up

03:51:56.900 uh when it comes to the legal stuff but uh yeah go ahead

03:52:01.440 oh thanks greg um yeah so um i just want to say like i i don't have much clout i'm a plebs pleb

03:52:12.000 i'm not connected i i i don't i'm i'm a am i a 51st stater i don't know how to call myself that

03:52:19.100 but i would say that i'm a keep my try and keep my head above water guy and um and i just uh

03:52:26.280 After my experience with feeling, you know, the government's boot on my neck, that way, you know, having these stars and visions of, you know, we're in Canada, we have rights, and finding out that maybe we don't.

03:52:43.480 I have great sympathy for sovereignists or Alberta's sovereignty.

03:52:50.660 Like, I did before.

03:52:52.340 I live on the prairies.

03:52:53.280 I live in Saskatchewan.

03:52:54.240 I don't even live in Alberta.

03:52:55.200 but i do see that side of the argument i do think it's mostly a western canadian i think there's a

03:53:01.840 lot of people that uh want constitutional reform in canada and maybe the 51st state thing

03:53:07.300 isn't is more about constitutional reform than it is about joining the u.s and maybe joining the u.s

03:53:15.320 some of the 51st staters is the fastest path to um to getting uh a republic rather than like

03:53:23.740 well i just want to join the u.s you know that's what i think it might this might all be about

03:53:29.680 um i'm gonna land my plane there and let other people wrap up thanks greg yeah absolutely chad

03:53:35.740 thanks for uh coming on and uh giving your giving your perspective uh you know someone who's been

03:53:41.160 persecuted at the convoy and had their bank account frozen is certainly uh someone who we

03:53:46.040 should hear from in this uh in this situation uh i i do want to draw attention to uh a tweet in the

03:53:52.520 nest from lee stewie who's also moderating but she tweeted out have a look at the commonwealth

03:53:57.460 countries that turned republic and um you know you have countries like she stole my thing 0.95

03:54:03.820 okay well if you want to just jump off in the group chat this is exactly what i wanted to

03:54:11.500 one of the things i wanted to close with so yeah yeah so go ahead take it from here so

03:54:15.480 talk about the tweet in the nest you can't you can't send lee anything without her

03:54:20.820 stealing your work um uh i did want to also say thank you for to chad for everything you

03:54:28.640 did during the convoy uh you you you describe yourself as an unsung hero but i i remember

03:54:34.540 your work uh during and and afterwards and uh the truth you tried to bring to the situation and all

03:54:40.880 the the drama amongst the the the the movers and shakers behind the convoy and uh and all that

03:54:48.560 you're having to go through now, it's disappointing that you have to go through that in a country

03:54:54.420 like this. So thanks for participating and providing your unique experiences. I do appreciate

03:55:01.420 it. I did want to track back a bit to some of Jason's comments. He did flippantly kind of say

03:55:07.620 that most Commonwealth countries were transitioning away from constitutional monarchy towards a

03:55:15.020 republic style uh i i i didn't realize how many uh had but that's because you know our our you know

03:55:24.520 the the first countries we think of when we talk about the commonwealth are are still constitutional

03:55:29.120 monarchies uh the uk australia new zealand these guys are all still constitutional monarchies the

03:55:36.060 most similar countries to us the one two republics are countries like india pakistan ghana south

03:55:42.100 africa nigeria kenya uh and a few more but countries that are nothing like us uh ethnically

03:55:50.680 nothing like us culturally um and i don't uh they're much smaller countries uh completely

03:55:57.580 different from us geographically i don't particularly astute comparisons uh in terms of

03:56:04.420 how we should be modeling our government um to close things but i do want to kind of pivot away

03:56:10.640 from things uh because uh while this was a fun discussion uh i do think all of this whether it's

03:56:19.720 alberta separation whether it's 51st state ism whether it's uh uh constitutional reformation

03:56:30.520 reforming the senate all the little details we've touched on throughout this four hour uh space i

03:56:39.060 i think it's all really a distraction from from the most important issues in this country

03:56:43.300 as i alluded to earlier i really think the most important issue in this country is

03:56:47.780 is mass immigration uh we are quickly losing our society and uh we're losing our identity we're 1.00

03:56:56.180 losing who we are people um we're quickly becoming a minority within our own country and i think we

03:57:02.740 We need to be focused on that more than quibbling about how the specifics of how our government is run.

03:57:12.480 A country is, a nation is the people.

03:57:16.700 You can't exist as we have.

03:57:22.000 The country is fundamentally changing as our population is being replaced.

03:57:27.000 It's becoming more and more tangible each day.

03:57:28.920 And unless we start talking about this seriously, talking about serious solutions like remigration, the country, as we know it, is not going to exist within a generation or two. 0.90

03:57:45.000 So I think we need to keep our focus on the most important issues instead of arguing with our brothers about how we organize our family.

03:58:01.660 Thanks to Greg and Lee and Base Maiden for organizing this.

03:58:06.740 This has been a lot of fun.

03:58:08.220 Greg, you're a great moderator as always.

03:58:10.460 Thanks, Daniel.

03:58:11.280 real real quick question what's the difference between remigration and deportations is there one

03:58:17.040 remigration is more of a term which includes mass deportations technically speaking mass

03:58:23.720 deportations is the removal of violated the law or is here illegally mass deportations would be a

03:58:31.960 part of a remigration plan but it would not be the extent of it um it would be you know we have

03:58:39.480 so almost like the immigration 500 000 almost like the immigration has like various you know

03:58:45.560 the family reunification they have the point system like you know re-migration is the opposite

03:58:51.000 of that it's having deportations it's having you know other kind of programs yes got it so it's an

03:58:57.320 umbrella term that would include uh that includes all methods of relocating foreigners to their

03:59:04.280 homelands um so that would include things like deportations of illegal very migrants um refugees

03:59:14.040 but also uh the any moves to create the economic and cultural conditions to encourage even legal

03:59:21.800 immigrants to return uh to their countries of origins through things like a repaid recreation 0.99

03:59:28.360 program uh or it's like you know it's another version of family reunification except reunifying

03:59:36.040 yeah yeah the other way of that the other way family is just reunifying them in a different

03:59:40.180 country so uh okay thank you thank you so much for coming out daniel we really appreciate your time

03:59:45.560 um and your perspective as a loyalist and someone who knows more about uh the canadian system in

03:59:52.000 history than me uh chad i think i saw your hand shoot up for a sec did you kind of want to share

03:59:57.760 through a few comments and and and say goodbye again or um did you want to chime in there maybe

04:00:05.000 he's doing the dishes now and he's walked away from his phone uh let's go to uh let's go to

04:00:11.920 uh fortisax did you want to say anything before we go i do want to get to jonathan as well for

04:00:15.960 for any uh closing remarks so let's go i just wanted to affirm uh i just wanted to much of

04:00:23.040 what daniel touched upon is that all of these ideas whether they're pro-monarchy whether they're

04:00:30.000 pro-republic they're pro-liberal democratic whatever uh all western concepts they're all

04:00:36.740 western ideas they're systems of government that western civilization has created for itself to

04:00:43.340 govern its own distinctive peoples um there is no one size fits all um you cannot democratize

04:00:50.400 of people where did not emerge out of naturally in many other parts of the world, even when

04:00:56.220 countries attempt to call themselves liberal democratic, such as North Korea or China, which

04:01:01.060 calls itself the People's Republic of China. The fact of the matter is, the ethnos drives the ethos, 0.78

04:01:11.600 the people drive the ideas. And people are not replaceable parts of the machine. They're not

04:01:17.280 cogs you can't just take a massive population of people from one part of the world and then

04:01:22.820 airdrop them into another part of the world and hope that once they cross an arbitrary line that

04:01:27.820 they start thinking exactly the same as you that's not that's not actually how things work

04:01:31.740 and to the whole concept of the 51st state you know i find that canadians may find themselves

04:01:39.480 in a situation god forbid that this ever did happen that kind of was annexed the fact of the

04:01:44.900 matter is that the biggest supporters of the First and Second Amendments, as well as the

04:01:49.640 Constitution of MAGA itself, are actually heritage Americans. Americans who can trace their origin

04:01:57.080 from 1967 or 1965, before the Hart Shack Act. Massive quantities of people in the United States

04:02:04.420 do not statistically care about the First or Second Amendment. They do not value free speech.

04:02:10.560 They do not value the right to bear arms. They do not value some of the very relaxed laws that Americans play for self-defense and especially against horrific situations like home invasions.

04:02:23.100 right um so immigration and demographic change is an existential threat to the existence of 0.99

04:02:30.700 canada and to the united states and to the entire western world and if this was occurring in any

04:02:34.780 other part of the world it would in japan is now opening its borders uh this would also be

04:02:40.300 a problem for them because the risk is that japanese society and value regardless of whatever

04:02:45.740 those values are are a threat from disappearing so to affirm what daniel said we can argue about

04:02:52.300 governmental systems on how people ought to be governed how our society ought to be organized

04:02:58.220 but the fact of the matter is that these are almost exclusively pertinent to us it's pertinent

04:03:03.060 to us engaged in this conversation right now it's not pertinent to the vast majority of those who

04:03:07.780 are coming they do not value liberal democracy they do not value free speech or the right to

04:03:12.120 bear arms or anything so i find that canadians if that situation ever happens may find that the

04:03:19.840 benefits of joining the United States are much more than they'd like to think. And I'll close

04:03:23.880 with that. Greg, thank you for having me on. I find that you are

04:03:27.680 probably one of the moderators in regular

04:03:31.660 CanadianX spaces. So thank you for your time

04:03:35.780 and hosting this space, providing me as well as others. Jonathan, I wanted to thank you

04:03:39.740 for providing a strong opposition voice in favor of

04:03:43.700 the 51st state. I think that you articulate and enunciate

04:03:47.940 your views uh exceptionally well compared to a great many other people uh who are involved in

04:03:53.920 this discourse so thank you for your time lee and base maidens as well daniel thank you for

04:03:58.480 being loyalist buddy back to back against these republicans and it was a pleasure to fight with

04:04:06.140 you brother revenge for 1812 all right thanks a lot guys i appreciate you having me uh thank you

04:04:15.320 fortisax go follow fortisax guys um all right jonathan did you want to share some closing

04:04:22.360 remarks you bet uh so yeah that was that was really good thank you 40 sacks and uh everyone

04:04:32.420 else i i want to um bounce off of what daniel was talking about how immigration is uh most

04:04:39.740 important issue uh that this is all a distraction um i i understand like i i i agree that immigration

04:04:48.340 is uh a very important issue for canadians it's uh detrimental to the future of our country but

04:04:55.100 this this also speaks to what we were talking about earlier which is the powers that be the

04:05:00.300 the powers of the world and where is canada and and what we're looking at now is canada being

04:05:07.420 in the throes of, uh, international fingers that are basically puppeteering this nation.

04:05:14.660 Uh, we're basically, uh, an economic territory being admitted by globalists. And for a lot of

04:05:21.940 51sters, the, the question isn't a matter of, you know, what do they want for Canada? So like it's,

04:05:27.660 they kind of have realized that either going to be these powers that these globalist powers that

04:05:33.820 doing what they're doing to us now or it's going to be joining the United States and being able to

04:05:40.780 have the protection of their constitution to be able to form Canada in the way the people want

04:05:47.100 rather than what these globalist designs have been and we all know about it like Canada is

04:05:52.080 zero for the the global agendas and I don't need to go into that I'm sure you all know what that is

04:05:58.520 But essentially for 51st years, they see this as Canada being in the midst of a geopolitical power grab, as many of you have alluded to.

04:06:11.040 And for Canada, for Canadians at least, the people of Canada should be differentiating Canada from the government of Canada.

04:06:19.580 I find that a lot of people, when they talk about defending Canada, immediately go to this, well, you're not a Canadian if, it's like, but what you're talking about is defending this government.

04:06:31.940 And I understand some of the people who are loyalists, that is what they're doing, because they think that this is just a bump in the road for the system.

04:06:40.140 But for others, they see this as this is a system of tyranny.

04:06:44.980 It allows for tyranny.

04:06:47.100 It keeps people permissioned.

04:06:49.580 And to them, maybe they've just had a little too much American growing up and now they want to have a republic and they want to be able to have the freedoms that Americans have.

04:06:58.940 And I think the 51sters, that's what they see as a quick path to that, because they see the alternative as more globalism, less, you know, less and less of everything else.

04:07:12.060 So, yeah, that's that's the difference. And so when you hear 51sters, you know, they're they're really they it's it's them wanting to get away from this system of government. 1.00

04:07:23.900 It's there is a true love of the Canadian people and they want to see what's best for the people of Canada.

04:07:30.920 They just don't see this government being the ones that are going to deliver it. So I'll just let my plan.

04:07:36.460 thanks jonathan thanks jonathan i definitely think we all agree with that that we that we

04:07:42.180 don't a lot we don't like the people in the parliament buildings and we want to we want

04:07:45.760 to change that all right we're going to wrap it up right now based maiden you have your hand up

04:07:49.720 did you want to uh say something before we get going yeah i just wanted to thank you greg you

04:07:56.120 were the hostess with the mostest and yeah greg yeah you were amazing um no fights broke out

04:08:03.820 um which is good for democracy or yeah i know it's not good for ratings um and thank everybody

04:08:12.660 in the audience and uh to those we bring it up well this it wasn't necessarily a normal space

04:08:19.240 um we kept it kind of uh high and tight so thank you to the guest speakers who did

04:08:24.560 to come up and um i uh i do sorry i was just gonna say i i do see alberta independence

04:08:33.100 in in the uh in the thing i don't know if you want to request to speak we could give you a few

04:08:37.860 minutes to kind of state your case if it's you know if you wanted to say something real quick

04:08:41.620 before the end uh if that's all right if people have time for a few more minutes if alberta

04:08:46.620 just because it seems kind of like you know they have a fairly big account and it's obviously

04:08:52.540 relevant to the conversation especially at the beginning uh so if you want to request to speak

04:08:57.660 then come on up alberta independence um i'll just kind of share my closing thoughts right now

04:09:02.700 which is yeah i think i think the common denominator here is like civic activity civic

04:09:09.160 agency canadians giving a crap canadians actually doing the hard work of uh engaging in their

04:09:16.200 politics and not just you know i feel like since the convoy uh the conclusion i've come to is like 0.98

04:09:23.120 you know what it's great to protest it's great that we had that kind of miracle the trucker

04:09:28.840 convoy happened where the people actually got hurt by those in ottawa but um we actually need

04:09:34.440 a lot more we need to build we need to build stuff we need uh you know i i'm very sympathetic

04:09:40.020 to the sort of perspective of having our own elite that are actually naturalistic that are actually

04:09:46.220 you know actually have resources and money and can actually start to uh you know do do usurp

04:09:51.880 more power in our institutions and uh you can doubt that all you want but if you look at the

04:09:57.340 enemies the people who currently have the control of the institutions it's a bunch of elitists it's

04:10:02.560 a bunch of people working together and uh there's certainly people who think like us who are on our

04:10:08.240 side and who have resources but it's a matter of kind of just building that up uh because you know

04:10:13.400 even if we become part of the states we still need people to advocate for the people in this

04:10:19.680 geographic location. But, um, I, I, I personally think that we're just at a low point and that

04:10:26.840 this is a great leverage. This is a great sort of jumping off point to actually reinvigorate

04:10:31.980 nationalism in Canada. And, uh, that's why I love to have discussions like this. Um, but yeah,

04:10:38.620 like we, we need, uh, we need the, the rise of Canadian nationalism, the rise of people realizing

04:10:45.900 that uh you know we need to put canadian interests first and i think that the fact that immigration

04:10:52.360 and demographic change coming up is is is super super relevant because if there's a whole bunch

04:10:58.560 of people in the geographic location in canada who want a state of calistan in india well that

04:11:04.460 just makes everything more complicated and becoming the states i i think i think just makes it even

04:11:08.420 more complicated so i think kind of just uh reasserting our identity and our history is a

04:11:13.740 great first step that also helps helps shatter the uh you know the sort of overton window of

04:11:19.780 being politically correct all the time but i'm getting off into other topics now

04:11:23.260 and uh that's great so let's wrap this up yep great great i mean i do think that the mass

04:11:30.760 migration is actually a great lead up to another conversation and another debate though again i

04:11:37.760 think we'll find a lot a sequel perhaps a cliffhanger for a future space yes but you know

04:11:44.100 if it were left to the um i think we could figure this out and it really speaks to um with people

04:11:51.060 really strong views um and they see things differently but it's the incompetence of the

04:11:57.100 political class that they can't come to a place where we can end things satisfactorily or complete

04:12:05.540 a deal satisfactorily so um you know i just you left it actually up to us we could sort this out

04:12:12.740 um absolutely lee did you want to say something before we go and then we should really shut this

04:12:19.260 thing down i'm hungry man i'll let beth and get uh last word but i i just wanted to remind people

04:12:27.060 that it's up to them to hold politicians accountable stop looking up to politicians

04:12:32.700 to solve your problems because it's up to you in the end.

04:12:37.060 Being at home, eating Cheetos, nothing's going to change.

04:12:41.160 You have to put the pressure on.

04:12:42.700 And I also wanted to say thank you to Four Sacks and to Daniel Tyree.

04:12:47.500 I always learn something to listen to you guys speak.

04:12:50.440 And to all of the separatists and the 51st Staters that came in, 0.95

04:12:55.900 I learned your perspective and I appreciate it.

04:12:58.720 Even though I don't agree with you,

04:12:59.840 it has helped me learn things that i do and so i appreciate you and thank you to everyone who

04:13:06.300 came on to the space to listen to this so that's it yeah i'll echo that i really did appreciate

04:13:12.180 sort of hearing hearing like the pain of albert and skin like of course i'm aware of it but uh

04:13:17.580 it was it was nice to kind of hear a more sort of intimate up up close and personal uh account

04:13:23.460 of uh because i know you guys hate what hate ottawa and you're in pain but it was it was it

04:13:29.100 was uh it was refreshing or at least like not not refreshing but it was uh it was good to kind of

04:13:33.720 hear uh a more kind of accentuated like just how bad it is um and i and just to kind of echo ali's

04:13:40.780 point there there's been uh international students there's been foreign workers who aren't even

04:13:47.640 canadian citizens and they're out protesting they are out protesting for what they want from

04:13:53.700 our institutions and our systems of government and they're not even citizens guys you know

04:13:59.640 people who are not even canadian citizens are out there doing more to and in some cases they've been

04:14:06.080 successful as well i believe in the the province of manitoba they got what they wanted some of

04:14:11.120 these international students but that just goes to show you know like where's that oomph where's

04:14:15.640 that where's that activity where's that civic activity activation of canadian citizens we love

04:14:21.480 to complain online or like quietly to it murmuring to each other but let's actually you know start to

04:14:26.640 actually get out there all right i think we should pull the plug thanks so much for tuning in make

04:14:33.980 sure uh you know fan follow daniel tyree follow fortisacks follow jonathan lee follow based maiden

04:14:40.840 thank you so much for everybody for tuning in and we will catch you next time shut her down

04:14:47.360 thanks thanks greg and for everybody on the stream thank you so much for watching

04:14:53.880 oh my goodness i i missed a few super chats i'm gonna try to find go find them let's see if i can

04:15:00.760 mute sent in ten dollars love from america good job folks thank you very much mute um

04:15:08.320 yeah i thought that was a great debate i might try to go up uh see if i can find the other super

04:15:15.380 chats i know they were a long time ago i'm just gonna shut her down we've been going we've been

04:15:19.800 going down uh actually no no you know what they sent in money i should i should go back and find

04:15:24.340 it right greg be a good youtuber talk about the people who sent in money you know come on

04:15:31.280 do your job bro what did you guys think i thought i thought it was good i thought it was a good time

04:15:36.560 um i mean after after live streaming for 12 hours on the on the weekend this that felt like nothing

04:15:43.400 four hours that's nothing all right i do want to go back to the super chats though because i do

04:15:49.580 appreciate it guys um let's see super chats mute sent see all yeah mute sent in ten dollars love

04:15:58.660 from america good job folks thank you mute for the ten dollars bill ward with ten dollars just

04:16:04.200 tuning in y'all need to watch Maxime Bernier's interview in the last couple days he's been on a

04:16:09.680 lot of interviews that Max Bernier yeah he's been uh he was on uh Patrick Bet David and uh looked

04:16:16.500 pretty good it's it's good to see him getting uh this kind of attention because he opposes mass

04:16:22.160 immigration he supports deportations in my opinion people like to say oh we need to vote for Polyev 1.00

04:16:28.220 and the thing is

04:16:30.280 we just need more Canadians 1.00

04:16:32.000 talking about mass immigration

04:16:34.560 and how it needs to stop

04:16:36.220 and how we need to actually do

04:16:38.020 deportations of illegals

04:16:39.500 because so many Canadians feel this way

04:16:41.980 but they're too afraid to say it

04:16:43.080 so we just actually need more people saying that out loud

04:16:45.760 but thank you so much Bill Ward

04:16:47.860 for the donation

04:16:49.660 ML Printer sent in $5

04:16:51.680 for Harrison

04:16:52.680 it's not defeatist to identify

04:16:55.680 who your real enemy is 0.96

04:16:57.480 for fuck's sakes um yeah no that's fair that's fair i uh people are actually coming coming hard 0.99

04:17:05.580 against harrison's one of one of his comments about how it's uh you know how it's ideological 0.98

04:17:10.900 the problem is ideological and yeah it was interesting to see the albertans uh you know

04:17:17.360 bite back and say actually f you this is existential this is this is you have no idea

04:17:21.820 what it's like to be an albertan being treated this way for so long thank you for the five dollars

04:17:26.260 ml printer and then another $10 from ml printer all true and those distinct regions can prosper

04:17:32.380 better under the american umbrella they too have distinct regions all empires do yeah

04:17:39.420 yeah and and you know we went over all that but uh yeah thank you for the for the uh for the

04:17:45.420 $10 ml printer once again and those are the super chats guys thank you so much for tuning in i

04:17:52.880 appreciate it that was a lot of fun that was a lot of fun and i think we're just gonna wrap it up

04:17:57.700 here until next time i'd like to do more debates i had a good time i had a good time doing that

04:18:03.760 and i get a lot of good feedback doing it and i feel like i learned a lot actually about like our

04:18:09.060 history about um uh mostly about canadian history and things i didn't know about uh the formation

04:18:16.240 of alberta for example um but yeah i am interviewing sarah stock on monday by the way

04:18:24.500 do you guys know sarah stock she is amazing she uh she's part of uh slightly offensive now 0.97

04:18:31.280 she had that viral clip talking about xenophobic nationalism and how these how she thinks that's a 0.96

04:18:36.160 good thing so i have a huge guest on monday sarah stock it's going to be uh i think 7 p.m eastern

04:18:44.400 time. Yep. 7 p.m. Eastern time. So see that. See you on Monday for that live stream. And we're

04:18:50.000 going to talk to you soon, guys. Cheers.

Greg Wycliffe - March 22, 2025

LIVE DEBATE!🔴Become 51st State or remain Canada？🔴What's the best path forward？ 🇨🇦🇺🇸

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