Greg Wycliffe - LIVE on Parliament Hill - can you be born trans？ Frances Widdowson & Mia Hughes

00:00:00.000 we are live we are live we are live we're live on parliament hill it's been a while everybody

00:00:09.780 it's been a while how are you feeling francis i'm feeling great amazing amazing we're gonna

00:00:14.600 uh no no i'm just gonna use this like a hand okay i just gotta see if i can find the other

00:00:21.340 okay uh maybe we should set up now what do you guys think

00:00:27.340 where is the flag we've been told they're going to raise a pride flag

00:00:34.060 um i see a pink backpack not quite sure not quite sure but we're hanging out here on parliament hill

00:00:43.880 we uh we just have did an interview between uh francis widdowson and mia hughes

00:00:49.780 how's the audio guys is the audio okay

00:00:54.380 in chat guys in chat let me know let me know if the audio if you can hear the audio

00:01:06.640 let me know if you can hear the audio audio where are people walking is the question

00:01:15.360 yeah yeah good idea good idea how's the audio guys can you hear it does the mic work loud

00:01:24.920 and clear perfect perfect so the question today is can you be born trans and we're here with

00:01:34.200 francis widdowson we're here with mia hughes two two very intelligent professors they've gotten 1.00

00:01:41.520 in hot water for you know asking good questions about transgenderism and that sort of thing

00:01:46.960 and uh we planned this kind of event today and what do you know they're raising the pride flag

00:01:50.960 today apparently they're raising the pride flag and we're kind of wondering where uh this actual

00:01:56.960 pride flag raising is going to go there's not too many people on parliament hill here right now but

00:02:02.800 you can kind of see the scene the good old-fashioned wall the perpetually under construction

00:02:09.280 in Parliament Hill. Hey, it's this way guys. Hey Mia, we're live. How are you? I'm fantastic.

00:02:33.880 Do you see the lady here? She's got a signed Pride Season Event. That's us.

00:02:38.060 Ah, okay. Pride Season Event. Perfect.

00:02:41.740 I assume, do you think it's this flagpole here?

00:02:44.340 Because that's not a Canadian flag, right?

00:02:46.180 I'm not sure.

00:02:48.160 Is it just over that way?

00:02:49.660 Yes.

00:02:52.360 Okay, great. Great. Fantastic.

00:03:00.180 What's going through your mind right now?

00:03:01.840 What are you feeling? You said this is your first flag-raising, pride flag-raising event.

00:03:06.120 It is. It's my first time. And honestly, I've always wanted to attend one of these.

00:03:10.340 I do regret that I missed the Trudeau years because that would have been hilarious.

00:03:15.440 But this is, to me, they have no idea what this flag symbolizes.

00:03:20.940 They think that it symbolizes tolerance and inclusivity when it's the flag of homophobia, misogyny, and the atrocious medical abuse of children.

00:03:30.860 So I find it, it's just so dark that they raise it on Parliament Hill every year.

00:03:37.940 And I've always wanted to see the ceremony that goes with it.

00:03:42.580 Yeah, I remember, this was back in 2020, it was Pastor Archer Boblowski.

00:03:49.360 He gave this great speech during a protest and he pointed over to the prime minister's office and he made a comparison to the Nazis.

00:03:57.140 He said, you know what, Hitler did what he got in. He put up his own flag. 0.90

00:04:00.860 He didn't put up the nation's flag. He put up his own flag.

00:04:02.960 And that's what they're doing with this with this rainbow stuff.

00:04:05.320 So that was kind of his hot take on it. Right.

00:04:08.680 Yeah. I mean, it's a human rights violation not to fly the flag.

00:04:12.840 Remember the town in Ontario, the town of Emo, they had a human rights complaint against them for not flying the flag.

00:04:19.920 So it's not a sign of, you know, that you're supporting these people willingly.

00:04:25.540 It's it's authoritarian and you're forced to do so.

00:04:29.040 otherwise they'll bring you up on a human rights violation so no they're not um they're bullies

00:04:36.460 and they like to force everybody to pledge allegiance to their frankly dangerous and

00:04:44.160 devastating movement but their days are almost their days are numbered it's almost over they

00:04:50.540 don't realize it yet but it's true i like that attitude i like that attitude it's almost over

00:04:56.560 it's almost time to wrap this whole thing up we've had our fun we've confused enough children

00:05:02.800 now i think it's time for you know grown up to show up and kind of uh you know i think no one

00:05:09.280 here knows that let's look at the crowd i don't think anyone here apart from us knows that it's

00:05:14.640 almost over all right we're arriving at the ceremony

00:05:26.560 here we go hey yeah we I don't have I'm with daisy media with daisy media

00:05:55.880 shout outs to chris dacy he's here somewhere is he in there i think we can go over here right yeah

00:06:01.960 how's it going

00:06:04.920 uh i'm not credited media so i can't i can't go in should i come on the other side

00:06:11.800 if you want to just stay inside you can stay inside the gate

00:06:15.880 yeah you can go in you're fine you're fine

00:06:21.640 i'm not legit enough guys not cool enough

00:06:25.880 Thank you very much.

00:06:55.880 Mon année, tu es grande, tu fais un cœur, il n'aura d'un sol main.

00:07:09.360 Car ton bras s'est porté l'été, il s'est porté la croix.

00:07:19.520 Mon histoire est unique pour vivre les plus brillants exploits.

00:07:29.920 God, keep our land glorious and free.

00:07:38.800 O Canada, we stand on guard for thee.

00:07:47.380 Oh, Canada, we stand on God for thee.

00:08:11.620 Do you want to commentate?

00:08:17.380 What do you what do you think they think they think it means what the original pride flag

00:08:31.540 meant the the tolerance of an oppressed minority and it was it was about acceptance and it was about

00:08:39.300 including everyone this flag is about exclusion it's about the authoritarian control of speech

00:08:47.060 It's about homophobia, it's about misogyny, and it's about the atrocious medical abuse

00:08:52.660 of children and adolescents and gender clinics, and none of them have any idea.

00:09:06.660 I don't know. I don't recognize them.

00:09:17.060 It's an honor always to be here with everyone here, and we need to prep before we come here, just like anyone else, we sit with our medicines and we listen, that's what our elders remind us.

00:09:46.060 is to sit and listen because the universe has a way of telling you and reminding you.

00:09:53.000 And when I was sitting with my medicines, I was reminded.

00:09:57.320 Medicines.

00:10:01.480 I was reminded of when creator decided that it was time to make the humans.

00:10:11.320 And he had already created all of the natural world,

00:10:14.260 this is one last piece of art and he summoned all of the animals all the creatures came

00:10:22.260 and he said to them i'm creating the unions and i need some advice because we always count for it

00:10:33.220 he said i have a very special sacred

00:10:37.220 We're trying to figure out how to get in here and stop ourselves to get in here, but I don't want them to find it until they are ready.

00:10:45.220 And so first Regal spoke up and said, you know, I am going to take whatever this gets to be.

00:10:53.220 Oh, she's just sitting up on the wall.

00:10:57.220 But she has to find a place to sit.

00:11:01.220 I'll bury it in my hands. They won't find it there.

00:11:08.220 And then Buffalo spoke up and said, well, you can give it to me, and I will take it to me, and I will bring it up there, and I will bury it into the ground. 0.70

00:11:18.220 They will never find it there.

00:11:21.220 And then Bear said, hey, you know, greater, maybe I'll take it, and I will take it to the forests,

00:11:29.220 and it will hide it in the trees.

00:11:32.060 They will never find it there.

00:11:36.420 Raiders say, well, thank you.

00:11:37.940 I appreciate your counsel.

00:11:40.780 But they will find it.

00:11:43.340 You see, because they are going to want to become like birds.

00:11:50.180 Justine.

00:11:53.320 So they are going to want to become like birds.

00:11:56.400 And they are going to fly into the heavens

00:11:58.200 because they think that's where they're going to find it.

00:12:01.180 And they'll even get to the moons.

00:12:03.820 So that won't work.

00:12:05.340 Well, what if...

00:12:07.060 Oh, no.

00:12:08.380 No, we can't do the oceans

00:12:10.200 because they want to become like fish.

00:12:13.540 And they're going to go there

00:12:14.600 and they're going to drill down as far as they possibly can

00:12:17.060 because they think that is where they're going to find the truth.

00:12:19.440 So no.

00:12:20.500 No, no, no.

00:12:21.280 And then buffalo, no.

00:12:22.360 They will go out to the plains

00:12:24.180 and they will drill down.

00:12:27.020 They will cut the skin of Mother Earth 0.97

00:12:28.700 because they think that is where they're going to find it.

00:12:32.980 And bear, no.

00:12:34.840 They're going to go into the forests.

00:12:37.440 And they're going to cut down the trees.

00:12:40.320 And you can't even give it to your brother, the white bear, up in the north

00:12:43.720 because they'll get up there too

00:12:45.480 and they'll think they're going to find it there

00:12:47.180 and they'll chase away the white bear.

00:12:51.120 Very sacred bear, you know.

00:12:54.900 And then Grandmother Mole. 0.98

00:12:56.660 who cannot see but has the gift of spiritual sight

00:13:01.460 had a very sacred relationship with the creator

00:13:05.400 and said, creator, what is this gift that you are talking about

00:13:09.940 that is so powerful and so special?

00:13:14.240 He said, grandmother, aren't there?

00:13:16.100 Yeah.

00:13:16.620 It is for sure.

00:13:18.020 Well, it's interesting that...

00:13:19.400 One second.

00:13:20.120 There she said, all right.

00:13:22.860 This is Francis Widowsend with her commentary.

00:13:26.660 Okay, so it's interesting with the pride celebrations is there's quite a large overlap between indigenous kinds of political developments and the LGBTQ and actually the two-spirit aspect is part of this.

00:13:52.960 So, and there's still kind of arguments about where this two-spirit idea came from, but evidently you can't be non-Indigenous and have two-spirit. It's a total Indigenous thing. And we had the 2S element that was actually incorporated into the whole initialism, LGBTQ2S, etc., etc.

00:14:15.200 so this knowledge keeper this is a knowledge keeper that's been brought out here to provide

00:14:24.420 us with some indigenous insights what's a knowledge keeper a knowledge keeper is someone

00:14:33.020 who's been designated so you have to be designated not every and it's usually some political process

00:14:40.520 which has determined us anyway they give it's like it's like a spiritual figure that gives some

00:14:50.280 element of supernatural like reference to the supernatural that's brought in

00:15:00.120 yeah but it's it's much less regimented than like a pope has got all sorts of

00:15:06.120 institutional things where as a knowledge keeper it's basically whatever political entity that's

00:15:13.180 in place has decided that this person is representative of some kind of knowledge

00:15:36.120 You guys have fun.

00:15:58.600 I love you.

00:15:59.340 Wee, ga ye, ya, hee, ya, hee!

00:16:03.540 Wee, ga ye, ya, hee, ya, hee!

00:16:15.000 Wee, ga ye, ya, hee! 0.88

00:16:18.460 Wee, ga ye, ya, hee! 0.88

00:16:24.040 Woo! Yeah! Yeah! Woo! 0.99

00:16:29.040 And so it is. And so it shall be.

00:16:33.040 A whole. Let's celebrate.

00:16:36.040 Just like so much space. Can you just let me speak?

00:16:38.040 Oh, sorry. Yeah, sorry. Yeah.

00:16:41.040 I'm very, very inspiring and touching.

00:16:45.040 Sorry, I didn't mean to scream in your ear. Sorry about that. It came out of nowhere.

00:16:49.040 I invite, at the moment, the very honorable Prime Minister, Mark Kearney, to give the

00:16:55.040 message to Canada.

00:17:05.040 He's here.

00:17:06.040 Thank you very much, thank you very much, thank you Marie-Gabrielle.

00:17:09.040 Thank you, Mark, for that incredible rendition of our national anthem, and Dylan for an

00:17:17.040 extraordinary way to begin this gathering in the right way under the flag of the rainbow and the

00:17:26.160 truth inside of us be revealed um what about the other flag celebrate all members of parliament

00:17:34.080 and their colleagues who are joining us today to celebrate pride to celebrate the diversity

00:17:40.880 that makes Canada unique, that makes our country strong.

00:17:46.880 Voir ton d'élus, le différent parti, rassembler pour voir son drapeau est porté par le monde.

00:17:56.880 C'est une symbole pour eux.

00:17:58.880 Une message d'unité en soutien de droits et de liberté de chaque Canadien et Canadiennes.

00:18:06.880 You know, our country, like the flag, is a mosaic.

00:18:11.880 We're all different, we all have our distinctions, we're all Canadian.

00:18:16.880 And one of our strengths in Canada is recognizing that people can be who they want to be,

00:18:22.880 they can love whom they want to love, they can live where they want to live.

00:18:27.880 The federal government, on whose seat we are, we are the defender of those rights.

00:18:33.880 We are the defender of our Charter of Rights and Freemies.

00:18:38.940 And as we gather today in a moment to raise a flag in recognition of those rights,

00:18:46.260 it's more than 40 years since the Charter was first signed right here on Parliament Hill.

00:18:52.840 We should recognize the progress that has been made as both powerful but also sometimes precarious.

00:19:01.160 Twenty-two years ago, on this very day, June 10, 2003, the Ontario Court of Appeals issued

00:19:10.920 a decision that immediately legalized equal marriage for same-sex couples in Ontario.

00:19:16.520 I remember that feeling in my life.

00:19:24.520 And twenty years ago this month, the Parliament of Canada passed the Civil Marriage Act, making

00:19:29.480 Canada, one of the first countries in the world to recognize and make marriage equality the law of the land.

00:19:43.480 Pride is a celebration of how far we have come. It's a celebration of how in many important ways love has already won.

00:19:54.480 But pride is also a promise. A promise to ensure that justice, security, and dignity will always be demanded, defended, and delivered.

00:20:07.480 Pride is a promise. It is a promise to every young person, regardless of their identity,

00:20:18.480 that they'll be able to walk through the school doors without being afraid of whether

00:20:23.480 they can get safely through their day. It's a promise to every couple who wants to show

00:20:30.480 affection, to be able to hold hands in public without looking over their shoulders. It's

00:20:36.480 It's a promise to every Canadian that they will be respected, that their rights will

00:20:41.160 be protected, that you will be safe in your own community and proud in your own skin.

00:20:49.480 Ces engagements reflect nos valeurs.

00:20:53.480 Canada, each one has its place. Each one is free to be himself.

00:20:59.480 When each one of us can be fulfilled in its full position, express itself, continue in our economy and in our communities, Canada is the most important.

00:21:13.480 When we stand up for all the rights of all our fellow Canadians, we strengthen our own.

00:21:22.480 In a time where unfortunately around the world there is a backlash struggling against the progress that has been made.

00:21:32.480 In this time, Canada will always stand up for the vulnerable and for the equal rights that we cherish.

00:21:39.480 Yes, we can take pride in how far we've come, but we should also recognize that there is much more to do.

00:21:47.480 Far too many Canadians continue to face hatred and discrimination because of just who they are and whom they love.

00:21:56.480 And that's why Canada's new government is supporting Fiat Save Canada Pride,

00:22:00.480 to ensure and help have successful and safe Pride celebrations across this land.

00:22:17.480 and we are making this is not it you know an announcement for today it's an announcement

00:22:24.280 for time uh we're making funded funding permanent for the two-spirit lgbtqi plus

00:22:30.600 community capacity fund to support

00:22:39.800 perfect

00:22:40.360 We will establish a new program in vitro, which will bring these treatments more abundantly.

00:22:52.360 We will also increase the funding of the international aid program, which, across the world,

00:22:59.360 allow to fight against the persecution of people who have sexual orientations or different identities of people.

00:23:21.360 Today marks the start of a series of events, marches, and celebrations.

00:23:27.360 And Canada will be strengthened by those events, by those celebrations, by the solidarity and courage that they sometimes have to represent.

00:23:37.360 We will be strengthened by those acts.

00:23:41.360 You know, Aristotle once taught that virtue is like a muscle that grows rejecters.

00:23:48.360 We become just by doing just that, free by doing great enough, empathetic when we show up and see, when we are kind, kindness grows, when we are Canadian, Canada grows. Pride is pain.

00:24:09.120 All right, I wanted to sit down, but...

00:24:18.120 Celebrating pride today, through this month, through every month, week, day, hour of the year, together, for an even stronger and fairer Canada.

00:24:31.120 Merci beaucoup. Thank you very much.

00:24:39.120 The Prime Minister of the Canada, Mark Cohn.

00:24:45.120 Although the Prime Minister citait

00:24:47.120 the backlash that can threaten

00:24:49.120 the societies who try to

00:24:51.120 make progress,

00:24:53.120 I have the very, very pleasure

00:24:55.120 to introduce you to a woman

00:24:57.120 determined to fight

00:24:59.120 the very honorable

00:25:01.120 Minister Reggie Harris.

00:25:09.120 Well, good morning, everyone. Bonjour to the moon. How are we doing today? Happy Pride?

00:25:16.120 That's what I'd like to hear.

00:25:21.120 Before we begin, I want to acknowledge that I'm joining you from the traditional and unceded territory of the Algonquin Nation.

00:25:29.120 I'm grateful we're grateful to live work and gather on this land and also I'm

00:25:35.540 gonna thank Dylan Jenkins for being with us today as our knowledge keeper and

00:25:40.160 Dylan said something very important yes let's give him a round of applause

00:25:46.360 he said something really important in his opening he said walking in our truth

00:25:52.100 And in order for us to do that, do you want to make some commentary?

00:25:59.100 So my name is Richie Valdez and I'm honoured to serve as Minister of Women's Speech.

00:26:07.100 She's the Minister of Women and Gender Equality.

00:26:14.100 But she said something about truth, walking in our truth.

00:26:20.100 And what does that mean, to have walking in, like, what are they talking about?

00:26:23.880 And what you'll notice when you use the word truth, they don't mean truth the way it is typically defined,

00:26:30.800 which is some kind of universal understanding of reality.

00:26:35.000 They mean what they believe to be true.

00:26:38.100 So if a man who's a sperm-producing individual believes that they're a woman,

00:26:45.180 that is that person's truth that everyone should affirm.

00:26:49.300 And that's where we've gone terribly wrong with all of these initiatives, is that, as Mia said, we need to be tethered to reality, and this is a complete untethering from reality, which is a serious problem.

00:27:03.580 because if we don't have a common reality then anything anything goes and we have i was just

00:27:12.860 talking to albert and robin about the non-binary surgery that the ontario ministry of health has 0.99

00:27:20.040 had to pay for because there's a man who wants to keep his penis but also have a vagina dug 1.00

00:27:27.180 out of his insides and then have a colon inserted and that's his truth or her truth or its truth or 1.00

00:27:35.240 whomever but he is both female and male and needs manufactured genitalia from both sexes 0.99

00:27:43.840 it's really quite shocking but that's what you have when you have no truth no universal truth 0.93

00:27:50.720 and it's just whatever people believe then you have monstrosities like the kind that we're seeing

00:27:55.820 today being celebrated like this flag that's being being they're rising up that is a symbol

00:28:06.080 of unbelievable dysfunction that is being celebrated and we need to stop this and

00:28:14.760 these politicians they are going to be held to account for everything they've done to

00:28:20.280 foment and enable this contagious. Like, listen to this. These people are just cheerleaders

00:28:28.740 for something they don't even understand.

00:28:30.240 I heard of Paul McHugh quote recently, and it was,

00:28:44.060 If you make the truth whatever I say it is, then it means that whoever has the power to define truth will assert their own way of seeing the world, when truth is not tethered to reality.

00:29:00.320 And Canada has been in that world for 10 years, where people with serious psychiatric problems, paraplytic desires, and an anti-reality way of thinking have been the ones who have asserted what is true.

00:29:21.800 and we're here right now to see the raising of the flag that symbolizes that but i do think that

00:29:29.480 as i said on the way in here their days are numbered the backlash that khani was talking

00:29:36.360 about it's real and they're not going to stop it because they've done so much harm to so many

00:29:44.360 people in society not just children but women lgb ironically the backlash is going to continue

00:29:52.600 it's going to get stronger and eventually we won't have this flag being raised on parliament hill

00:30:07.640 yeah that raises a question about left behind like you have mental illness you have a mental 0.95

00:30:12.920 illness you get your body parts chopped off and you still have the mental illness 0.93

00:30:17.800 so if you ever want to really leave someone behind then that's how you're going to do it

00:30:23.320 so we're just not thinking rationally about this matter and hopefully today

00:30:28.040 we'll at least make some effort to say

00:30:31.080 you're imposing your space on everyone else well you can move away it's a free country

00:30:53.640 no i'm not going anywhere else yeah i might go ahead it's a free country

00:31:01.080 You are being really disruptive right now.

00:31:04.080 This person is sort of talking about sort of everybody.

00:31:08.080 You're raising your voice.

00:31:10.080 Yeah, yeah, ma'am.

00:31:11.080 Yeah.

00:31:14.080 Anyway, we're here and we're just raising our objections to this monstrosity that's going on.

00:31:19.080 And if people don't like it, well, they're entitled to raise their objections.

00:31:23.080 They're not exactly being disruptive.

00:31:25.080 Nobody rams him here.

00:31:27.080 No, he's listening in on our conversation.

00:31:30.080 So, like, whatever. Like, it's fine. Like, this is, everyone can express their views.

00:31:37.080 If people, you know, I don't, I don't agree that's hateful.

00:31:41.080 I think that it's being tailored to reality is not hate.

00:31:45.080 And, you know, people are suffering terrible damage because of this ideology.

00:31:51.080 And the fact that we have celebration that's going on all the time about this.

00:31:55.080 It needs to be cooled down. It needs to be challenged.

00:31:58.080 Exactly. And this is a public space. This is our parliament. Our parliament is being

00:32:06.240 taken over by ideological forces and we're just commenting on it.

00:32:12.320 I'd really like to know if they'd be willing to apply the green, white and purple flag

00:32:18.680 that symbolizes women's flag and that women are female. I wonder if they'd be willing 1.00

00:32:24.680 fly that flag here. If not, why not?

00:32:28.680 I didn't even know that that was a flag. Well, it was the suffragette flag, 0.77

00:32:32.680 but we've taken it because this is suffragette 2.0. 0.99

00:32:36.680 Once again, women have the fight for the right to be recognized 1.00

00:32:40.680 as human beings, distinct from men.

00:32:44.680 So we adopted the suffragette flag. It would be great 1.00

00:32:48.680 if they would fly that forever, not a parliament child. Yeah, I think

00:32:52.680 it's best just to get rid of all the flags i i i think so too like like we're gonna just have

00:32:58.280 endless flags i think the canadian flag makes sense because it is canadian parliament

00:33:07.480 go ahead

00:33:11.720 so you can remember who i am and you mea

00:33:16.520 but i think that the

00:33:17.320 Yeah, I know. It's like, well, like, I'm not afraid. I'm not afraid of whatever they're going to do. But the Canadian flag is a geographical symbol, so anything. And it can be whatever you, you can just kind of having arguments about what Canada should be. But that flag is a terrible flag. That is, that's not even the pride flag. That's called the progress flag.

00:33:43.940 Every person that I know hates that fact.

00:33:48.940 Yeah, I know. I know. I do.

00:33:51.940 They have no rights for the same sex. 1.00

00:33:54.940 What's going on?

00:33:58.940 Well, we're here.

00:34:01.940 In our workplace, in our schools, and among friends,

00:34:05.940 let's celebrate the differences that make our society so vibrant and welcoming.

00:34:11.940 because, as we always say, silence is not an option.

00:34:16.940 Silence is not an option.

00:34:19.940 I think that some of us dream of the day.

00:34:23.940 I think these people should be embarrassed about what they're doing.

00:34:28.940 And they're just muttering platitudes that they think.

00:34:35.940 And this is going to have terrible consequences.

00:34:39.940 Everyone has been included in this world, queer community members, allies, families, friends,

00:34:46.260 so that love is hatred over hatred.

00:34:50.100 I think this is where you have to go.

00:35:02.900 Yeah, so this is piggy blanking on the gay rights thing.

00:35:06.820 So no one is saying you can't love who you want to love.

00:35:09.940 Well, they are, though, because the trans-right movement makes it so that lesbians are not allowed to be lesbians. 1.00

00:35:17.100 They have to be attracted to the men who think that they're lesbians in the same place. 1.00

00:35:24.260 With women who think that they're men are invaded in gay men's spaces. 0.84

00:35:34.840 Is the flag going up or is it? 0.62

00:35:36.940 Oh, they're just going to be raising it.

00:35:38.680 Okay, aren't we supposed to play Rupaul or something?

00:35:44.860 Play a Rupaul song?

00:35:55.160 He knows how to work a pole, that's for sure. 0.98

00:35:59.980 It's a pun, guys. It's a pun.

00:36:03.400 Thank you, everyone, for coming here today.

00:36:05.580 i will now now invite all the participants to approach the podium for a new photo thank you so

00:36:12.620 much thank you thank you um should we go now do you want to go now okay let's go now

00:36:28.860 I don't know if the security guard is being right behind me, is it a coincidence or what?

00:36:47.140 what the community guys yeah I believe to be fair to be fair I didn't kind of

00:36:58.680 heckle a few times I did like yell it's like I turned around and all of a sudden

00:37:02.840 there was like five parliamentary

00:37:04.920 from the police behind us. I was like, what the heck? 0.57

00:37:09.680 Amazing.

00:37:19.840 Hey, how's it going?

00:37:21.040 We're live on YouTube right now. How's it going?

00:37:24.100 Do you want to be live on YouTube and share your thoughts on the ceremony?

00:37:27.440 No?

00:37:28.880 Alright.

00:37:30.160 Any thoughts about where we want to set our mats up?

00:37:34.920 I think we should do it, yeah, yeah, I think we should do it.

00:37:57.320 Yeah, it's better to beg for forgiveness than ask permission.

00:38:03.720 You can corral people over here.

00:38:05.580 Okay.

00:38:06.820 And they'll be like a...

00:38:07.840 Yeah, no, I think this is like a spot.

00:38:20.560 All right, so we should do it so you can, like, read them this way, right?

00:38:26.320 Like, you can read the different ones, you know what I mean?

00:38:30.640 Yeah, horseshoe this way, like this.

00:38:33.720 all right okay so there's another presenter right now I guess and sorry I

00:38:46.980 know that camera angles I good

00:39:03.720 oh i don't know what to say guys i don't know what to say um

00:39:23.720 it's weird it's weird being at one of these demonstrations it's weird

00:39:26.760 seeing this uh i i thought what was emblematic was um carney said canada equals pride or to be

00:39:35.480 canadian is to be prideful so it's just a more you know amalgamation of different words yes so

00:39:41.880 we're starting off with the street epistemology uh situation here which is we got these maps which

00:39:48.120 we're going to lie out layout and they go from strongly disagree to strongly agree and there's

00:39:55.880 neutral so if you don't know anything about this and you're thinking well we

00:40:00.200 don't exactly know what this is about then you'd be on neutral and then what

00:40:03.320 we're gonna do is we're we're gonna get a yeah you know Dan somebody sorry can you

00:40:10.880 start over yeah okay so what we're doing we're gonna

00:40:25.640 start the street epistemology session which has these maps seven maps and they have strongly

00:40:33.240 disagree on one side strongly agree on the other and then neutral in the center and what we do is

00:40:39.400 we make a claim and the claim the fundamental claim for this event is people can be born trans

00:40:46.120 so that is the claim and i know that mia hughes has some views on this but we also have robin

00:40:52.840 Collins who is going to be doing uh this exercise as well and any um any hangers any people who just

00:40:59.640 come by who want to just kind of have their thoughts they want to state their thoughts

00:41:03.720 and I think it's important to have you know difference of opinions that you're going to be

00:41:09.320 expressed at this kind of event because this is very much a political event and it's important

00:41:15.560 can be able to express disagreement with a dominant position that's being put forward

00:41:22.520 and in fact we actually have a flag that's being raised so everyone's supposed to be celebrating

00:41:26.360 so what I'm going to do is I'm going to put these around in a horseshoe

00:41:29.240 Yeah, yeah, horseshoots are like this.

00:41:42.240 Slightly, yeah, okay.

00:41:56.240 there it is there it is hey there anyone interested in answering the question can

00:42:16.020 you be born trans we're doing a thought experiment over here 1.00

00:42:19.480 hey everyone we're doing a thought experiment can you be born trans if you want to come over 0.99

00:42:28.960 to the thought experiment can you be born trans just come over here to the left participate in 0.67

00:42:34.600 the thought experiment can you be born hey anyone want to want to participate in the thought

00:42:47.740 experiment can you be born trans can you be born trans we're doing a thought

00:42:52.840 experiment can you be born trans do you want to participate sir hi there we're

00:43:01.720 doing a thought experiment today can you be born trans and yeah if you want to

00:43:06.640 participate you step on one of the guys okay 0.99

00:43:11.280 Hey guys, I'm going to ask you to remove your insane reveal.

00:43:14.480 They're just mats.

00:43:15.160 They're just mats.

00:43:16.600 Hey, gentlemen, we're doing a can you be born trans thing.

00:43:20.140 Okay, cool.

00:43:21.020 Cool.

00:43:23.620 Do you guys want to participate?

00:43:25.260 Answer the question.

00:43:26.120 I'm going to have to remove your mat from the... 0.75

00:43:28.680 I mean, they're just mats.

00:43:30.120 We can pick them up in no time.

00:43:32.160 This is charter, right?

00:43:33.300 Like, we have a free speech.

00:43:34.560 It's the content.

00:43:35.520 So because you guys are taking over the event, that's taking place.

00:43:39.440 Well, I'm taking it over.

00:43:40.660 Just let me explain, because you guys are going for the people who are trying to come in here and try to get them to come, and while they're doing their event, we're just going to ask you that you move to the lawns to allow them to ask to leave without being impeded with them.

00:43:53.120 Well, I feel like we're off to the side here. Like, if they want to leave, they can totally just go that way.

00:43:58.440 And take care for the stuff on the ground. This is technically for tours, this is not for events. I'm just asking you to move to the lawns, that's it.

00:44:03.520 So, the...

00:44:04.180 I'm asking you to leave for Elmett Hill, I'm asking you to move to the lawns.

00:44:06.400 You have to go to the lawns.

00:44:07.480 If you can.

00:44:07.980 What if we hold the mats up?

00:44:11.100 It's still to the lawns if possible.

00:44:12.920 Because the event is complete.

00:44:14.060 So I'm just asking you guys to go to the lawns.

00:44:15.360 Okay.

00:44:16.520 Alright, so I guess we're getting kicked out.

00:44:18.580 Not being kicked out of Burma Hill.

00:44:19.920 Asking to be moved to the lawns.

00:44:21.160 And then when we get to the lawns, what's going to happen?

00:44:22.920 Are we getting kicked off the lawns?

00:44:23.640 You can absolutely have your event on the lawns.

00:44:25.500 That's it.

00:44:25.720 They ask for a permit to be here at this location.

00:44:27.520 I'm allowed to talk to people and ask them questions, right?

00:44:29.520 Absolutely.

00:44:30.180 Okay, great.

00:44:31.100 Awesome.

00:44:31.740 Awesome.

00:44:32.300 So we're not going to be approached by anyone on the lawn saying you have fun.

00:44:34.840 That didn't last very long.

00:44:35.800 let's go set up out there

00:44:40.360 crowd control kind of stuff

00:44:41.920 yeah yeah sure

00:44:42.740 that didn't last very long

00:44:50.240 it's still like this event is completed

00:45:00.880 so the permit is not finished for this event

00:45:03.060 so we're just asking that any other event

00:45:04.820 happen on the lawn if you want to be in this spot you would have had to ask for a permit if we came

00:45:09.380 here on any other day would we be allowed to do it or is it just if you ask for a permit to hold

00:45:13.380 an event here to do it on the concrete because it's in front of the visitor welcome center which

00:45:17.700 is where the tours are being accessed but is it really an event where they're talking to people

00:45:26.820 is it because of like the content of what we're doing like they asked to be here for a permit so

00:45:32.500 this section is reserved for this event right now that is it so they're doing the teardown and

00:45:36.100 that's all i'm saying so uh can we do it like next to the flame all right great i think next

00:45:44.180 and the flame is good make sense so yeah all right cool yeah thanks guys thank you um yeah

00:46:06.500 yeah could could we sorry one more question like could we just go like down the sidewalk a bit

00:46:10.820 like if you guys can just go on the hill because that's where mps are going to be

00:46:14.260 where does the hill start sorry on the one west one east one center so past the past the black

00:46:19.460 fence yeah that's the construction zone okay all right uh yeah could you maybe

00:46:33.380 stake that out and see if i can catch up with her i'd love to ask her 0.97

00:46:40.820 No, if you see her coming, then we can try it out.

00:46:45.420 We need to figure that out.

00:46:52.280 Where's the...

00:46:53.480 Where did Francis go?

00:46:59.220 Oh, she's right there.

00:47:01.500 Do you want to do it at the flame?

00:47:04.860 In front of the flame?

00:47:06.020 Or should we do it over there on the sidewalk?

00:47:10.820 Yeah, the thing is I feel like there might just be tourists over there where if we go over here

00:47:16.660 I feel like we get might get more people coming out of it. I think so. Yeah

00:47:28.160 Yeah, so let's do it like down here

00:47:33.060 Yeah, and then it could be like hey, where you got the flag raising perfect

00:47:40.820 i like how you're gonna have some time you're live right now oh wow extemporaneous now i mean

00:47:47.400 the whole time usually are you gonna comment yeah i'll comment yeah yeah so usually the whole time

00:47:52.020 i'm not like uh oh i gotta hold this i don't have the compulsion the blurt stuff out i don't care

00:47:57.820 am i like i'm not gonna swear like the whole time i'm sitting there i'm like thinking to myself 0.98

00:48:03.440 this is fucking gay dude like like this is the state of our country where mark carney rolls up 1.00

00:48:10.800 they got a pride flag right at the same height as the canadian flag yet underneath the uh orange 1.00

00:48:21.520 all right there we go well no no no were we gonna say last words well the both of the flags are

00:48:26.640 underneath the uh indigenous flag that they have above way higher yeah yeah it's like you know

00:48:31.840 what kind of message is that sending to canadians indigenous is like five stories and on top of

00:48:37.600 everyone yeah pretty much do you want to share your thoughts no hey guys we're

00:48:43.480 Doing a, did you come from the flag, freezing?

00:48:45.480 Yeah.

00:48:46.480 Okay.

00:48:47.480 Cool.

00:48:48.480 Great.

00:48:49.480 This is perfect.

00:48:50.480 Going on the line.

00:48:51.480 Oh, sorry.

00:48:52.480 Why not over?

00:48:53.480 We can't do it over here?

00:48:56.480 Issue though is for pedestrian traffic.

00:49:00.480 All right.

00:49:01.480 All right.

00:49:07.480 No, I can't.

00:49:09.480 Yeah.

00:49:11.480 barrier can we not we don't have the sign unfortunately yeah maybe if you came

00:49:30.200 can we do the shade over there or no i say we do it over there what do you think

00:49:48.680 i think it's attracted to people the shade the sliver of shade

00:49:54.120 and i think more people will be on the sidewalk too

00:50:00.200 you need to get that content guys

00:50:07.620 hey we're just doing a little demo here that's fine right

00:50:13.180 we were told on the other side of the fence and we're good

00:50:17.300 this is part of the lawn like this side of the black fence

00:50:23.060 sure sure sure that would be great

00:50:30.060 that'd be great all right let's set them up let's line them up i know they're not going to watch

00:50:36.060 you guys walk there how do you why just not allowed the video of the building that type

00:50:41.580 of stuff we're going to get an answer though so okay okay boss man's coming right here we'll get

00:50:47.740 what piece of grass or maybe it should be there because it's like you see it when you're walking

00:50:52.460 I mean, if that grass is fine, we're going to go to the hydrant now.

00:51:01.700 I'm sorry to do that.

00:51:02.980 It sounds like they're just going to mess with us again.

00:51:06.560 Like, go, like, right here.

00:51:10.120 Or do you think we should tough it out here?

00:51:11.620 I think she talked to me.

00:51:14.880 Let's see.

00:51:17.100 Oh, look over there.

00:51:22.460 Hey we're doing a thought experiment. We're doing a thought experiment today. We're asking the question, can you be born trans? 0.95

00:51:29.460 Would you want to participate in that? You can say strongly agree, strongly disagree, and kind of like, you know, go from there.

00:51:37.460 I'm live on YouTube if you don't mind.

00:51:39.460 I can speak in French?

00:51:41.460 Uh, sure. But we're live on YouTube, that's good, that's cool.

00:51:44.460 Okay, it's fine.

00:51:45.460 Okay, yeah. So, can you be born trans, is the first question.

00:51:49.460 I believe in Jesus, so everyone is equal, so if Jesus brings people to the planet, we are equal.

00:52:01.460 I cannot say yes, I cannot say no, but I know everyone is equal.

00:52:06.460 Did you see the flag raising over there?

00:52:09.460 No, I came to visit but it was close.

00:52:11.460 Oh, okay, cool, cool, yeah.

00:52:13.460 Yeah, but we are all humans.

00:52:15.460 Yeah.

00:52:16.460 We are all in the same town, same country.

00:52:20.460 Yeah.

00:52:21.460 So I believe that we are equal.

00:52:23.460 Yeah.

00:52:24.460 And when it comes, like, have you heard of trans people or transgender people?

00:52:28.460 Yeah, I hear about that.

00:52:30.460 Yeah.

00:52:31.460 What is the question?

00:52:32.460 So do you think people are born transgender?

00:52:35.460 i think jesus is good and he knows why he's doing things i cannot say yes i cannot say no but i say

00:52:44.300 we are unity we are equal we are the same we live in the same country we i love everybody so

00:52:50.480 i i cannot say yes thank you so much yeah absolutely thanks a lot

00:52:55.520 hi sir we're doing a thought experiment today well i'm thinking i'm happy this way but thank

00:53:02.020 okay okay is this okay he said that we can go to the second walkway

00:53:08.340 so can we do it on that sidewalk right there

00:53:13.140 yeah like in front of that walking sign kind of next to the red fire hydrant yeah okay okay let's

00:53:19.940 do that all right we got the final answer here i'll take those is that your final answer well

00:53:29.380 she just gave us the heads to have to go ahead we're going right over here 0.88

00:53:37.940 you got to do it yourself guys got to do it yourself

00:53:49.700 all right how do we make this fun let's make this fun make this symmetrical

00:53:52.900 I do have autism, so that helps.

00:54:04.580 Is this the right order?

00:54:13.860 Boom.

00:54:22.900 All right, I'll show you guys how to do it.

00:54:29.620 All right, all right.

00:54:38.340 I'll try to, I think behind the mats is good.

00:54:41.080 Get here?

00:54:42.280 Yeah, behind the mats and then if you can,

00:54:44.060 like maybe step forward to talk to the person.

00:54:46.740 And then once they go to a mat, like kind of step back.

00:54:49.740 And they're going to which way they can take this one?

00:54:52.600 I guess kind of that way, don't worry about where they're

00:54:55.540 facing.

00:54:56.040 Just keep facing this way to keep it consistent.

00:55:00.440 How's it going?

00:55:03.260 We're doing a thought experiment right now.

00:55:06.440 And the question is, can you be born trans?

00:55:10.700 You know what trans?

00:55:11.780 That's a classic.

00:55:13.100 Yeah, and yeah, we are recording.

00:55:15.360 But if you're comfortable, you can participate in it.

00:55:17.220 You can say strongly, agree, talk, disagree.

00:55:20.040 Are you interested?

00:55:21.760 I just want to watch others for people.

00:55:24.760 Yes or no?

00:55:25.760 I just want to watch others for people.

00:55:27.760 Oh, you just want to watch?

00:55:28.760 Yeah.

00:55:29.760 Oh, okay, cool.

00:55:30.760 Cool, for sure.

00:55:36.760 Alrighty.

00:55:38.760 Hi, we're doing a thought experiment today.

00:55:40.760 Sorry, I forgot.

00:55:41.760 Okay.

00:55:51.760 Hey there. How's it going? Good.

00:55:53.960 We're doing a thought experiment today with, uh,

00:55:57.440 Oh, nice. Did you want to participate?

00:56:00.760 Probably not the best person to participate.

00:56:08.200 I think you want the other stuff. Right. Right. Well, it could be fun.

00:56:11.240 Anyway, like if you,

00:56:12.880 now would be a good time to step in because we're, you know,

00:56:15.080 we're trying to show people what it's all about. Show people participating.

00:56:21.760 I can talk to so many people in Ottawa like this and really speak freely because I got

00:56:41.020 discipline for having the wrong opinion basically yeah well thank you anyway what's up

00:56:49.960 yeah so many people like this uh it's like if i'm out of a job my wife my wife is going to hesitate

00:56:56.820 if i take uh right can i record your voice or uh no no i may jump in later okay cool okay

00:57:05.040 you're welcome to record my voice that will keep my name sure

00:57:11.920 Well, the thing is, I've been running around with my camera, so I don't know if you may have come up on the background or something like that.

00:57:24.340 Sure?

00:57:26.200 Did you go to the egg rave?

00:57:28.100 No, I just arrived. I was late.

00:57:30.740 Oh, no.

00:57:31.440 I was late to the party. I was planning on going to this event at Ottawa U just to watch.

00:57:37.600 I might try to get some people, yeah.

00:57:41.920 Hi there. Sorry to interrupt. Did you guys go to the flag raising? Hello. Hello. Okay. I guess they're deaf, maybe? I don't know. I guess they're part of the LGD. D for deaf. I guess they were deaf or something. I guess they were snubbing me. How's it going, sir? Good. Good. We're doing a thought experiment today. Did you come from the flag raising? 0.96

00:58:09.640 oh did you want to do a thought experiment okay hey how's it going hey guys we're doing a thought

00:58:21.340 experiment today did you come from the flag raising or i don't think i've ever been snubbed

00:58:27.900 so many times by snooty people in ottawa it's crazy the snubs in ottawa are like unparalleled

00:58:34.660 yeah i can't sleep at night because of the horrible things that i do and participate in

00:58:39.600 cool hey guys how's it going good did you come from the flag racing awesome yeah the pride flag

00:58:51.360 yeah so we're doing uh i'm streaming the experiment yeah we're asking the question

00:58:57.060 can you be born trans and you can say strongly agree strongly disagree and we have a couple

00:59:01.840 uh would you like to participate no well the whole point is is to start with that start with

00:59:09.080 the question start with Charlie disagree and then we have a couple

00:59:12.560 professors that kind of like walk us through like the reasoning from there

00:59:15.100 that makes sense we could be record just your voice that works okay sure

00:59:25.760 absolutely okay so come on down and your name is anonymous looks like we have

00:59:35.480 somebody. I'm going to make sure I don't get you on camera. This guy behind me doesn't want to be

00:59:47.180 reported, but he can report his voice. So maybe he's just going to cover his mind. But we'll just keep you waited for now while we get to this person, if you don't mind.

01:00:00.780 And do you think that gender dysphoria and trans, like, is that the same thing?

01:00:06.880 I think that if you persist into adulthood, you might call yourself trans if your genders work and it's never swayed and nothing has alleviated it at all. 1.00

01:00:21.880 yeah um but that is it like you can sorry um yeah sorry um but yes i i think that if gender

01:00:31.320 dysphoria persists into adulthood there are people who would call themselves trans

01:00:35.960 but i don't believe in the literal definition of someone who's born in the wrong body

01:00:41.640 um i'm just not sure i'm just trying to figure out how you guys are different from one another

01:00:46.520 or you would just say gender dysphoria,

01:00:50.760 it makes no difference whether it's gender dysphoria or not.

01:00:54.380 That does nothing to do with it.

01:00:58.000 You see, there's two different questions there.

01:01:01.060 So I think gender dysphoria is a real experience.

01:01:06.740 People really do experience gender dysphoria.

01:01:09.340 They feel a deep-seated discomfort with their sex characteristics.

01:01:12.840 and there are various reasons why a person might feel that but that's not innate nobody innately

01:01:20.720 no baby is born with gender dysphoria you feel the gender dysphoria in response to your social

01:01:26.360 and cultural situation and then trans is just a label that is very very present and ubiquitous

01:01:36.020 in our culture and so people make sense of their feelings of distress through the label of trans

01:01:41.060 but there's absolutely no possible way that you're born that way so to say born means that you have

01:01:49.140 babies that are trans no not for me for me it would be a predisposition at least that might 1.00

01:01:56.320 develop and for me gender dysphoria is not understand enough that i could definitely be

01:02:00.720 swayed if there is evidence that showed either way that it is not something that comes from a

01:02:05.320 decision so so what kind of evidence would you require to move closer to mia on this question

01:02:12.920 um i guess um if there if you found a method to alleviate gender dysphoria that was uh somewhat

01:02:20.120 successful and helped uh alleviate the disorder for people on a very constant basis and um as of

01:02:25.960 right before puberty blockers generally that was puberty um yep but still you've got two people

01:02:32.680 Can we get the next participant in?

01:02:42.680 Yep.

01:02:43.680 Hold on.

01:02:44.680 Sorry.

01:02:45.680 So am I right in thinking my microphone is not picking up?

01:02:49.680 I have to talk into that?

01:02:50.680 I'm not sure.

01:02:51.680 Okay.

01:02:52.680 Can I pull this to your voice?

01:02:53.680 Okay, cool.

01:02:54.680 Yeah, so that was both.

01:02:55.680 Okay.

01:02:56.680 Yeah, both microphones.

01:02:57.680 Yeah, yeah.

01:02:58.680 Both microphones.

01:02:59.680 Okay.

01:03:00.680 okay so i don't have to talk into this i have i'm good okay for sure okay so this is just for the

01:03:06.680 live so yeah our next our next our next contestant is anonymous okay so i'm just recording the audio

01:03:11.640 okay that's the audio yeah and so the claim is uh people are born trans people can be born trans

01:03:21.160 and so in terms of your claim on this would you would you see yourself as where would you

01:03:27.800 fit on the mats that would be where she is okay so you strongly disagree that people can be born

01:03:41.000 and so why would you put yourself on the strongly disagree mat in terms of people can be born trans

01:03:49.160 when a human is born they are either born as a male or a female okay simple as that

01:03:54.760 you can't change that okay and uh in terms of evidence that you wouldn't like would there be

01:04:04.040 anything any evidence that would be provided that would make you move more towards the the disagree

01:04:11.880 or the slightly disagree i don't think there's any physical evidence whatsoever to support that 0.99

01:04:16.760 the only thing that is proven is to be born a hermaphrodite with both a penis and a vagina 0.86

01:04:22.920 which in that case i would absolutely agree that gender dysphoria would be a thing as you were born 0.94

01:04:27.160 with both genders and at that point i guess you would be able to choose which one you want or

01:04:32.440 hell keep both but as basic elementary school biology goes you're either born a male or a

01:04:40.440 female and if you want to change that something happened in your past that you need to get 1.00

01:04:46.040 get resolved what do you think is the most convincing argument for people

01:04:52.520 being born trans I don't think there is really any convincing argument it's just 1.00

01:04:57.740 basic science and biology I mean if people want to feel like there's

01:05:05.000 something else when they're not people are people you can if they feel like

01:05:11.960 that they can feel like that it's none of my business but here we're talking

01:05:16.640 about opinions and in my opinion no it's just if I wanted to be a woman but I was 1.00

01:05:24.020 born a man I'm sorry to say this to be a little crude but you just have to suck 0.99

01:05:28.920 it up you are what you are and sorry but again it's only my opinion I respect

01:05:37.480 others yeah if you if you feel like you are a woman all the power to you great for you

01:05:47.400 that's it yes oh yes oh don't get me started

01:05:54.440 if you're a man and you say you're a woman you're not going into a woman's bathroom 1.00

01:05:59.160 i'm sorry to say this yeah you're not going to go into women's sports that is biologically unfair 1.00

01:06:04.200 all the most recent records that have been broken by a trans athlete in women's sports

01:06:11.400 were originally men i don't think that's fair i i can't be the only one that thinks it's not fair

01:06:17.580 that they are being broken by someone who wasn't even born a woman 0.99

01:06:21.200 i'm just thinking about the the devil's advocate position here in terms of what i i have heard many

01:06:29.900 people especially on the women's sports the women's and uh when you have a a person who's

01:06:35.900 trans and this is just using their definition which is a a person who's born male but who

01:06:43.100 believes that they're a woman and they're taking um jay johnstone can you be born trans we're

01:06:56.700 wondering oh you're so much fun babe this this should be like a simple question though right

01:07:03.260 this should be a simple question no you're like a trans advocate you're like the number one

01:07:09.040 number one trans advocate you know everyone loves you you are like you are you are like

01:07:18.300 the trans marvel superhero so surely you can answer the question can you be born trans 0.98

01:07:26.700 I was born pretty gay. 0.97

01:07:27.900 I don't know what your problem is.

01:07:30.500 That's not bad, but it's not like addressing the question.

01:07:33.120 There should be an easy slam dunk, right? 0.99

01:07:35.420 I'm a dumb conservative. 1.00

01:07:37.920 Right, I'm a dumb conservative, 1.00

01:07:39.260 so tell me why you can or cannot be born trans. 0.99

01:07:42.060 We want to know.

01:07:42.540 The people want to know the science.

01:07:44.700 They want to know the science.

01:07:47.340 Tell us the science. 0.99

01:07:51.400 Your balls looks great today, by the way. 0.99

01:07:53.140 I love when you talk about my body. 0.98

01:07:56.700 i looked at phase bulge guys i'm not gonna lie it happened it was a moment it was a moment of

01:08:05.720 weakness oh the trans marvel superhero of canada can't answer the question are you born trans yes 0.85

01:08:15.300 or no who you with yeah and then he saw you was like yeah just sucking on that cigarette but hey 0.88

01:08:27.680 whatever you know they they are doing their thing it is what it is um i feel like you should have a

01:08:38.480 good answer for that though if you're a trans your trends representative yeah you should you

01:08:44.600 should have some cool answer you know but hey this one of this shoutouts to

01:08:54.360 Faye Johnstone in the chat thank you thank you for that by the way do you

01:09:06.560 mind do you mind if I ever record you you're on strongly agree people can be

01:09:15.420 born trans you you're on the strongly agreement and so what makes you stand on

01:09:22.340 the strongly agreement because I have worked in an industry where I closely

01:09:27.500 work with trans etc etc and I have close relationships with people who I have

01:09:37.760 known since childhood who have felt that they were in the wrong body and I

01:09:45.560 support my friends absolutely um but I am coming more from an angle of two

01:09:52.460 spirit uh as an energy like male and female energy you can be born with both one presents

01:10:00.140 more than the other or equally and um as far as the previous commenter about you're born physically

01:10:11.900 male or female i agree biologically but that your body doesn't represent your soul it doesn't

01:10:21.180 represent who you are as a person so let me see if i understand your position here so you you you

01:10:30.700 agree that there's male and female sex yes but i don't believe it's about sex it's about the person

01:10:38.620 okay their soul their energy their their being who they are okay yeah so you can have a female 1.00

01:10:46.220 person who's of the female sex but in terms of their energy they're actually a man they're a man 0.88

01:10:56.300 more masculine energy okay and how do we determine the the difference between having a masculine

01:11:03.820 energy and just being someone who likes to engage in what would be typically considered to be

01:11:13.020 male-oriented activities. Can you repeat that question please? Yeah so some women and they're 1.00

01:11:23.020 female sexually but they like to do what would be considered to be masculine things such as 0.83

01:11:30.860 fixing cars and playing like engaging in boxing and these sorts of things. I don't see a problem

01:11:40.860 with that absolutely not um and i think it's individual the person decides for themselves if

01:11:47.020 they are gay lesbian or two-spirit like it's it's their who they are when you have that situation

01:11:57.420 of someone who was female sexually who was doing masculine things how and and they didn't see

01:12:04.460 themselves as being trans they just say i like doing masculine things how would you tell the

01:12:09.500 difference between someone like that and someone who has this kind of um male energy i guess

01:12:15.740 you you get to know them and ask and i don't think it matters and again i don't think it's about

01:12:21.820 sex as in sex yeah i think it's just you're going to be who you're going to be and you 0.54

01:12:28.780 should be able to be who you want to be so if you're physically female but you do 0.83

01:12:34.460 do masking and things like you had, why is that a problem?

01:12:39.460 It's not a problem. I'm just trying to figure out that scenario versus someone who is trans 1.00

01:12:48.460 and now wants to have some kind of hormonal or surgical kinds of procedures in the context

01:12:57.460 of what we're talking about. Like I don't know, in looking at people who are female 0.98

01:13:03.460 who do masculine things versus people who are female who say that they're actually got a male 0.86

01:13:08.580 energy that needs to be have some kind of intervention about them how does one distinguish

01:13:14.180 between those two things i guess it's kind of my my uh my just in trying trying to define the

01:13:19.540 situation someone who is looking at someone and you are deciding how or how they do how they just

01:13:28.500 make the determination well i can only say my the people and friends that i know

01:13:36.260 um it comes a little bit later in life when they realize that does that make sense yeah

01:13:44.660 like it's not so it's just their sense yes so they say they say i feel i have i'm a i'm born

01:13:54.180 female i have uh ovaries and so on that's the sex but i feel that i have male energy 0.97

01:14:02.500 yeah and that would be a trans person no not necessarily they would have to define that for

01:14:08.180 themselves okay so they would say i'm trans or they don't even have to say anything but right

01:14:16.100 it's it's the person they're the ones who are the ones to if they feel the need to explain i don't

01:14:25.620 think it's automatically trans it's there's lots of layers to it but um

01:14:35.460 i don't think like why should it matter uh well we're i know we're having the discussion but

01:14:41.540 i i don't i i well maybe we'll have someone on the opposite side of that

01:14:47.540 oh yeah no but we want to like this is too far apart so what we want to do is the question is

01:14:54.260 the the statement is is that you can be born female in terms of sex but you can be trans in

01:15:04.500 the sense that you feel that you have a male energy is that correct essentially and that 0.98

01:15:12.340 makes you trans so i didn't say it makes you okay so but what when is it that you have um

01:15:19.300 a male energy and you're like we're trying to determine how do how do we know when someone is

01:15:24.980 trans or not they'll tell you if they feel safe and comfortable but we don't quite know how they're

01:15:33.300 making that determination you're gonna have to ask them i think i can't answer so it's just purely

01:15:39.300 their subjective kind of feeling about it not subjective they've probably given it a lot of

01:15:45.300 thought but we have no way of you would say though that there's there's really no way of

01:15:51.540 having some kind of criteria aside from them just saying it that would make this determination

01:15:57.940 I think that's kind of silly to be honest why should there be a criteria like people should

01:16:04.960 just be people do like you want yeah except people for who they are spiritually their soul

01:16:13.640 their being because our bodies are just vessels okay and and what's your thoughts on um people

01:16:21.260 who get surgeries, like they feel that they're a female, they've got ovaries and so on. 0.98

01:16:32.100 They have this sense, this energy that they're a man, if it's a child, so it can't be, it's

01:16:44.140 not a child.

01:16:45.140 what i'm saying um as far as surgery goes i feel you need to acknowledge but i don't i think children

01:16:56.980 need to wait till they're an adult because um in my opinion if you're if you're younger

01:17:10.180 sometimes when we're teenagers we change our minds a lot but as far as

01:17:17.260 surgery I'm all for anyone who wants to do that when they're older and okay like

01:17:25.660 really considered it and explored everything I don't think people who want

01:17:32.080 to be trans yeah I don't think I think they give it a lot of thought I don't

01:17:37.840 think it's a willy-nilly kind of thing. But when they, when they're children, they could be

01:17:43.800 mistaken about their feelings about this energy, this male or female energy, and they kind of

01:17:49.940 have to reach adulthood to be certain about it. I don't feel like they don't know. Like, I feel

01:18:00.700 like knowing some gay people in my life they knew at a very young age but hit it

01:18:09.100 and it wasn't until they were older and more confident that they would come out

01:18:17.420 whatever yeah and is that you see that as being similar to like the homosexuals who are in the 0.93

01:18:24.540 in the closet and don't want to really say that they are homosexual do you find that's 0.95

01:18:30.060 a parallel between being trans? I think trans is a separate issue not an issue but I feel like it's

01:18:38.380 a separate subject for me I wouldn't combine the two because again multi-layered everyone is

01:18:48.700 multi-layered i was going to say something i forgot

01:18:55.820 okay how do you feel about bringing strongly agree and strongly disagree together in the

01:19:00.780 middle and then we can maybe have a conversation where we can hear each other what about a slightly

01:19:04.940 agreed yeah have we talked to slightly agree yet no that's my son oh i know he wants to remain

01:19:10.780 anonymous yeah you you don't want to have had this discussion a fair bit and it kind of always ends

01:19:19.580 an argument no no because he has to come home with me later and i understand like i'm already

01:19:28.460 alone until we get home do you want to have a conversation with me though leave yourself

01:19:34.060 okay let's do that we'll bring this over so that we'll have more of a horseshoe

01:19:37.660 All right, so we're going to have a conversation between a strongly agree and a strongly disagree.

01:19:50.940 All right.

01:19:56.060 I don't know.

01:19:59.120 I will be anonymous, right?

01:20:01.280 Uh, yep.

01:20:02.380 All right.

01:20:03.380 Will this be uploaded to anything?

01:20:05.380 Uh, yeah, YouTube.

01:20:06.240 what's your channel um it is greg wycliffe g-r-e-g-w-y

01:20:13.360 let me just uh make sure i have

01:20:18.880 i don't check them okay all right what's it called all right

01:20:35.120 i feel like the question is a little bit ambiguous because trans and

01:20:40.000 And you're saying that, from what I understand, your argument is that you can have the female

01:20:56.320 sex or the male sex, biologically, but you have a kind of a women's energy or a man's 1.00

01:21:04.680 energy to spirit and and depending upon which one manifests itself that will

01:21:12.480 make you either trans or not trans depending upon like if you are a female

01:21:18.360 who has a woman's spirit you're gonna be it's gonna be aligned so you're not 1.00

01:21:23.280 going to be trans. I'm trying to. Sorry about that. It's windy. Some of the terminology

01:21:36.280 that you're using for me isn't working because how is it not like I'm just trying to understand.

01:21:42.280 Oh, I know. Yeah, so how is it not working? I don't quite know how to phrase it in a way

01:21:47.280 I'm going to come back to that, okay?

01:21:59.280 Yeah.

01:22:00.280 I want to include Robin in here.

01:22:01.280 You're going to be on the slightly agree, Matt.

01:22:04.280 So in terms of response to the change, people can be born trans.

01:22:10.280 You're on...

01:22:11.280 I'm slightly agree.

01:22:12.280 You're on the slightly agree.

01:22:13.280 I'm close to neutral, but I...

01:22:15.280 And what makes you on the slightly agree, Matt?

01:22:18.360 I think first we'd have to define the term.

01:22:21.880 Okay.

01:22:22.660 If we think it's a biological term or not,

01:22:26.380 is it a term that's defined by medication or by hormones

01:22:34.520 or by social influence or whatever?

01:22:38.820 There's a range of influences that could determine this.

01:22:42.320 I agree with most of her points that she made, I don't take, I take a secular position though, so it's not a spiritual thing, I like what Mia said about propensity towards, I think this is a very important point because you have to define or decide what a propensity towards a particular sexuality or gender or whatever, what it's determined by.

01:23:09.320 and if it's determined by chromosomes or hormones or whatever you could be born

01:23:18.860 with it it could be it could happen during birth and it could affect your

01:23:23.540 brain and your brain could and I don't know I mean it's a lot of debate about

01:23:27.980 to what extent brain scans show propensity or not I know I've seen foreign

01:23:34.340 and con arguments for that so the reason why I sit here because I think that and

01:23:42.580 I speak about adults here not children I totally agree children are too young to

01:23:48.780 know now the problem is is that there if we agree that there are people who are

01:23:54.440 trans who would become trans when they're adults they're comfortable with

01:23:57.860 that however we define it that means there must be some proportion of

01:24:03.320 children who are going to become trans when they're adults.

01:24:07.120 We don't know which ones they are and that's the problem because an adult doesn't know

01:24:13.100 about a child.

01:24:14.100 I'm just trying to understand your position.

01:24:18.000 So you think that when you're born you have a propensity to believe without any other

01:24:32.000 influences it's just innate to believe that you are the opposite sex it's possible it's possible 0.98

01:24:41.920 and um a child probably doesn't know what biological sex is at a certain age so but they

01:24:49.440 may feel they're a certain way i would say the vast majority who who are male who think they're 0.75

01:24:54.640 more more girlish they're probably gay and and vice versa they're probably lesbians i think 1.00

01:25:00.960 The data show that, not the vast majority, but a significant proportion are probably gay or lesbian. 0.73

01:25:08.500 So trans is a different, and I agree with you as well, it's a different package. 1.00

01:25:14.280 It's not the same thing.

01:25:15.380 They should not be confused whatsoever.

01:25:17.160 You can definitely be born gay or lesbian, in my view.

01:25:22.640 You know, there could be influences that draw you more if you're bisexual to one than the other.

01:25:27.880 But trans is different.

01:25:29.260 i think trans and if you took away if you took away sort of the coaching by parents and so on if

01:25:37.340 you took away uh um lockers uh if you took away the surgery yeah and somebody still said i feel

01:25:49.020 like i'm trans i have no problem with that like if in the problem the problem area is or the question

01:25:56.140 to me is why would somebody want to go undergo all these things if they are naturally feeling

01:26:02.140 to be trans why can they not be trans i'm not speaking for everyone obviously i'm speaking

01:26:08.060 like it's my i have an honest question yeah why would you want to go through the process if you

01:26:13.340 feel you're trans why can't you be trans in that body yeah so it's you're saying that there's it's

01:26:19.980 likely there's a propensity that you're born with a propensity to believe if you're a a born a

01:26:30.300 female you you're you have a propensity to believe that you are male there that this exists so you're 0.89

01:26:38.300 born that way i mean if you once you exit the womb you mean yeah or like yeah very early age no no

01:26:44.060 it's like it's born so it's like some kind of we don't there's some kind of genetic thing that it

01:26:48.700 it could be it could be a genetic thing that's not chromosome it could be hormonal it could be

01:26:55.100 brain pattern it could it could be a natural phenomenon but a very small minority okay

01:27:00.700 okay but you're saying that even if that's the case like let's say that that is the case

01:27:08.220 surgeries or

01:27:11.820 exist in this kind of odd space i'm just saying that's an option that should be an option

01:27:17.900 and given the problematic outcomes of some of those interventions it probably is a healthier

01:27:30.380 not for all for some not just not to be coached not to take the hormones

01:27:35.180 not to take the blockers but i i don't i don't quite understand why you think that there's this

01:27:39.660 propensive like what why wouldn't it just be parents influencing their children so

01:27:49.260 so let me let me think i'm distinguishing two different things here one is a very small but

01:27:54.140 very small proportion of the population who are naturally let's say five

01:28:00.540 then there's a larger proportion of the population that we know is exaggerated by social influence

01:28:05.660 So if we take the Stats Canada data that say 0.33% of the population in Canada is trans or non-binary, if we take that as fact, and I'm just saying it's the only data we have, we know that for the population between 15 and 30, it's double that. 0.90

01:28:27.280 So there's something going on to that sector of the population that doesn't happen to the overall population.

01:28:34.020 If you go to the United States, the data for the 15 to 30 year olds is like 5%.

01:28:38.680 So what's going on, such as in Canada, it's 0.67% and in the U.S. it's 5%.

01:28:45.420 That seems to be a social contagion.

01:28:47.660 So that is a totally different subject matter, in my view,

01:28:50.800 than that there are some people who are definitely born with a propensity to be trans

01:28:55.820 and as an adult would feel more comfortable moving in that direction.

01:29:00.540 But to be trans, you could just be gender non-followered.

01:29:04.160 People are born.

01:29:06.060 It's a subset. I would say that's a subset.

01:29:08.060 Trans is a subset of that.

01:29:09.640 Not even, well, I don't think so.

01:29:11.860 The kids who will be labeled trans kids now,

01:29:16.800 that's a cultural label that didn't exist in the past,

01:29:19.860 but they are just, almost all of them would just grow up to be gay or lesbian. 0.95

01:29:24.140 The little boys who are the Jazz Jennings type, they're very effeminate. 1.00

01:29:28.580 It's the almost most of them, is the point I'm making.

01:29:31.940 I agree with you totally with what you said, but it's that group, that small, tiny group within, that wouldn't become gay or...

01:29:41.080 Oh, but I actually mean some of them might actually grow up to be heterosexual.

01:29:44.740 I don't believe any of them grow up to be trans, because I don't think it's a type of human being. 1.00

01:29:49.380 We culturally created it.

01:29:50.820 but what I'm saying is they're born with a being gender non-conforming and then the gender dysphoria

01:29:59.740 is a response to it's difficult to stand out as a kid it's difficult to be different if you're the

01:30:05.520 little boy who loves ballet sparkles barbie dolls the kids are going to be mean to you and you're

01:30:10.420 going to know that you stand out and that will make you want to be a girl because that's the

01:30:14.540 way you can blend it there's your gender dysphoria that kid's not trans because no one's born trans

01:30:19.960 But you're just making that statement, right? You are insisting on that statement, but you agree there's a propensity for different gender, different sexual orientations, various things, right?

01:30:31.060 So the one that you disagree with is the one where I'm going to...

01:30:35.300 Actually, this is why I distinguish between those who transition in the sense of surgery from those who don't have any surgery, don't take blockers, and so on.

01:30:47.440 I think it's a different group of people, right?

01:30:50.160 I'm talking about, so there could be some who say,

01:30:53.280 I feel like I'm a woman, I'm not gay, I'm not a male, that is,

01:30:58.500 but biological male, I feel like a woman,

01:31:01.500 and that's the way, and I don't want any surgery,

01:31:04.320 that's the way I feel, and I'm going to call myself trans.

01:31:06.980 I have no problem, and I think, I mean,

01:31:09.680 it does depend on how you define it, right?

01:31:11.680 If you say there is no such thing as trans in biology,

01:31:15.640 then you are eliminating that option.

01:31:17.440 right i'm saying i totally agree that uh that sex is defined by your donors and a trans woman sorry 0.77

01:31:27.320 trans woman who is who is a male is still a male but can be trans because that male thinks or wants

01:31:35.880 to think that he is a she but just in terms of trying to clarify like you you don't necessarily

01:31:44.500 see it as psychological like that seems to me the difference like me it was a spiritual yeah

01:31:50.340 you see this feeling or whatever has some spiritual character whereas you're saying

01:32:00.260 it's not spirit well i'm just i'm not spiritual so i could i could reuse her term yeah and say

01:32:06.980 it's uh psychological or it's mentally comfortable or it's your personality or you know whatever you

01:32:13.220 know there's not a big difference like why i'm not totally agree is because i think there's a lot

01:32:20.020 of trans people who are children who have been socially influenced who claim that they are trans

01:32:26.340 and they are not in the sense that i'm speaking of so that's why i'm i'm not way over there but

01:32:32.100 if you said is there a tiny tiny percentage who probably have that propensity that even if they

01:32:37.220 don't have surgery i still i could sit over there and so you're you would not agree with that though

01:32:43.620 you would say that there's no one there is actually no person who is born who has some kind of

01:32:50.740 propensity to think of themselves in the wrong body or in the other in the office in the body

01:32:57.460 of the or they have the identity of the opposite sex you see this is a problem they would have to 1.00

01:33:03.620 have their experience and grow up because most children don't think of stuff like that right

01:33:07.860 it would have to be when they're older when they start thinking yeah about how they're

01:33:13.380 that's a really important point because if you take if you take a uh let's say a little girl

01:33:19.220 who's playing with trucks and so on she's not saying i'm trans she's saying i like to play

01:33:25.540 with trucks period end of story right what she is we will find out at a later date and she will 0.99

01:33:32.500 and she will tell us what it is maybe she's but i don't know i don't know what is distinguishing

01:33:37.780 i'm having a hard time talking about the same thing yeah that's the problem yeah well that's

01:33:42.740 why we needed to find the term none of us even none of us talking about the same thing so what

01:33:48.580 What I am saying is trans is not an innate healthy variation of human existence, no one 1.00

01:33:55.940 is born that way, it is a response to a variety of life challenges that you find yourself

01:34:04.760 in a difficult situation, whether you are a gender non-conforming child, whether you

01:34:08.580 are an adolescent discovering a homosexual identity and your gender non-performing, whether

01:34:13.940 you're depressed whether you're an autogynophilic man and you have a carophilia that motivates you

01:34:19.120 there are a number of reasons why you may land on the label of transgender because it exists in

01:34:25.800 our society right now but in all of human history it did not exist and so in all of human history

01:34:32.560 all of those people would have just lived as gender non-performing homosexual or they would

01:34:39.840 have lived as a man who gets off on wearing women's clothing but it wouldn't have been 0.52

01:34:43.720 trans but the problem is in in our culture we we have trans as if it's innate and natural 1.00

01:34:50.220 we protect it as a protected characteristic here in canada we etch it onto the bodies

01:34:55.820 of young people as if it's an innate trait that will never change chop the body parts

01:35:00.100 up do whatever that's we're treating it as if it's innate and immutable when it's culturally

01:35:06.280 created and culturally...

01:35:08.500 Before we go back,

01:35:10.320 did you want to add anything to that?

01:35:11.840 I also think part of the debate is whether

01:35:14.160 we view it as something that's fluid or whether

01:35:16.300 it's something that's permanent. And in all honesty,

01:35:18.540 the party line from their side is

01:35:20.340 it is fluid. They've even mentioned that

01:35:22.340 it's fluid. And can something that's

01:35:24.260 fluid be something that's

01:35:26.540 innate? I don't think so. It's not

01:35:28.200 immutable. There's even been cases, like you brought up

01:35:30.340 the fact that maybe not for children,

01:35:32.260 but there are plenty of people who transition

01:35:34.220 as adults, and then they grow

01:35:36.120 much older and then they get dementia or something that alters their mind and then they're alarmed

01:35:41.580 because they look in the mirror and they don't know why they're they're a natal male and they're

01:35:45.420 looking back and they're like oh my gosh am i a woman like this isn't right so there's a lot of

01:35:49.900 cases of adults once they they start uh declining mind-wise that they don't they they're alarmed

01:35:56.460 about their gender and you don't get that from people who don't transition may i also i just

01:36:03.320 I just want to go back to something you said.

01:36:05.320 I need to read up on that.

01:36:06.900 Am I allowed to go back into the debate?

01:36:08.160 You were talking about the childhood...

01:36:10.160 It's going to be hard to get your face...

01:36:12.380 Oh, don't worry.

01:36:13.540 I'm fine with it now.

01:36:14.840 You have my mother anyways. 1.00

01:36:16.560 Okay.

01:36:19.220 Sure, try to join the circle next...

01:36:21.600 No, I wouldn't narrow it.

01:36:23.700 I wouldn't make it that narrow.

01:36:24.880 I think you could be trans

01:36:26.300 without being coached by your parents,

01:36:30.420 without the blockers,

01:36:31.820 without the hormones,

01:36:32.640 and without the surgery what makes you trans if you think you are trans it's it's it's so 0.81

01:36:39.200 there's two things one is i mean if somebody says they're trans are they trans is one other question

01:36:45.040 you know that's a legitimate question right i don't i don't buy that because somebody could

01:36:49.520 be faking it but i'm taking somebody let's say who's not let's take jan morris let's take part

01:36:54.160 everybody knows jan morris the travel writer formerly james morris um i don't know i didn't

01:37:01.040 read her book but i don't know that when she was alive that is that she would have been seen by

01:37:08.080 many people as a nut she was a very intelligent person

01:37:16.640 she was uh very comfortable from what i understand very comfortable in her transition

01:37:24.640 and uh and i and i would say that she is an example of someone who was comfortable

01:37:31.040 with the surgery in the transition process.

01:37:34.100 So again, we're not talking about the same thing

01:37:35.720 because to me, I'm talking about

01:37:37.420 is someone innately trans 1.00

01:37:39.580 and you're talking about,

01:37:40.660 can medical transition be right in some people?

01:37:44.420 Is that-

01:37:45.260 No, no, I'm not quite.

01:37:46.800 I'm not quite saying that.

01:37:48.400 I'm saying that there are different options.

01:37:50.280 So to your question, can it be innate?

01:37:52.780 I think so.

01:37:53.720 A very, very small number of people

01:37:55.840 who if we were never touched

01:37:57.780 and yet knew what a male versus female was, could switch.

01:38:03.320 I have a hard time figuring out what that, like,

01:38:06.020 I'm just trying to understand what that means for trans to be a name.

01:38:13.780 Like, what would that, what would that, what is that?

01:38:17.460 It would have to be psychological, for sure.

01:38:20.160 It would have to be, like, if you use the word dysphoria, 0.83

01:38:25.640 it's kind of a negative term in a sense.

01:38:27.480 don't have a problem using the term but let's say it's a let's say it's a natural minority position 1.00

01:38:34.840 very small minority position that somebody feels that they're not whose male feels that they're

01:38:40.200 actually female even without any coaching and any medication or any surgery so i will not i cannot

01:38:49.800 eliminate the possibility that that person exists i've known a small number of trans people they

01:38:55.640 seem comfortable in their transition maybe they won't be at some point i don't know right so but

01:39:01.320 i can't eliminate because i don't know that the psychological impulse or she calls that a

01:39:07.400 spirituality i wouldn't use that term uh that it's not genuine like i don't think everyone is faking

01:39:15.160 i don't think people are faking it but i don't think having the feeling is enough to say that

01:39:19.880 you're trans like for example cotard syndrome is people who feel like they're dead they honestly

01:39:26.200 to god feel that they're dead that doesn't make them okay but i but i i i get your point yeah

01:39:31.880 and there are sexual deviations that we consider to be problematic right i don't see this one

01:39:38.760 except when the post on children as problematic except for the person who decides to do the

01:39:44.680 surgery right so it's not for it's not for me to say that that person has it wrong even though

01:39:51.400 i might think i certainly wouldn't have done it but i'm not that person i can't speak for that

01:39:56.520 but again i think that's what he is getting at is that we're not looking at the extent of which

01:40:02.920 people accept their choices and so on like that's that's one issue but that's not we're trying to

01:40:10.360 pin it down as to is it something that is biological yeah like a i guess that's really

01:40:17.420 if you're born it's a biological trait it seems to me if it's if you're born that way so that's

01:40:24.960 always the whole thing about just to do the parallel with homosexuality was the kind of

01:40:29.040 the battle about that is that is is homosexuality uh just a choice that people make because of

01:40:36.180 culture or something or is there just a certain percentage of the population

01:40:41.220 that has that innate kind of characteristic i could answer that okay

01:40:48.020 so you want to be on film sure yeah anonymous is back let's go i know thank you homosexuality is 0.86

01:40:57.300 from what statistics are still homosexuality usually happens when a child is abused

01:41:02.900 Oh! 0.60

01:41:03.900 No, no, no.

01:41:04.900 Supposedly.

01:41:05.900 No.

01:41:06.900 Supposedly.

01:41:07.900 No.

01:41:08.900 However.

01:41:09.900 However.

01:41:10.900 We'll be respectful. 0.96

01:41:11.900 I do admit, homosexuality is a choice. 1.00

01:41:14.900 And it is, no, not a choice.

01:41:17.900 Sometimes it's a name for people.

01:41:19.900 You can't really choose who you are attracted to.

01:41:21.900 How about that?

01:41:23.900 I can't really...

01:41:24.900 I want that.

01:41:25.900 It's okay, take your time.

01:41:27.900 Yeah, I'm gonna take my time.

01:41:28.900 Hold on.

01:41:29.900 It's a very touchy subject for both me and my mother. It's, uh, homosexuality, just people, you know, move on to somebody else. I, uh, I woefully misunderstood what the question was.

01:41:45.960 The reason why I was bringing that up is not because I'm trying to say that they're equivalent or anything, but I'm just trying to say that in the debates that went on about homosexuality, it was argued very strongly that it was innate.

01:42:02.380 There was a very strong argument with that. Now with trans, we're not sure. There's very different views on whether it is something that is biological and something that you're born with, or whether it's something, as I think it was just Mia is arguing, which is culturally determined.

01:42:22.380 culturally determined and it's a it's a psychological response I mean I'm gonna

01:42:27.420 say it it's a psychiatric disorder and those are the two reasons why a person

01:42:34.380 would come to the conclusion that they are transgender now the psychiatric 0.93

01:42:37.940 disorder can be in response to whatever life challenges you have and if you look

01:42:44.660 at the symptom pool which is this wonderful concept by a medical

01:42:47.940 historian edward short-term the symptom pool is just the recognized set of disorders in your

01:42:53.380 culture at your time and so if you're distressed and you hate your body maybe you're just going

01:42:57.780 through puberty you can select trans uh from the symptom pool because it's in the symptom pool of 1.00

01:43:03.140 our time but it's always a response to some kind of psychological trouble or difficulty in life

01:43:09.620 and so you may know people for whom transition was right or identifying as trans is right but

01:43:16.420 there's a reason why each one of those people came to the conclusion that they

01:43:20.500 are that they want to live as members of the opposite sex and it's not an innate

01:43:24.340 reason it's a psychological reason or a paraphilic reason in terms of the

01:43:29.700 evidence for that is what makes you so sure that it is this psychological

01:43:36.500 response to whatever's going on or if it's psychological why would it not be

01:43:40.660 and ace that the two are not exclusive exclusive to each other right well yeah i guess you could

01:43:47.060 be born with a psychological proclivity towards a certain thing so i want to ask you another 0.98

01:43:51.620 question because you're racist like let's take the the gay lesbian phenomenon then after that 0.99

01:43:56.980 we're going to go to roots sweater and then we're going to go to i love turfs t-shirt oh i love turfs 0.90

01:44:01.780 i want to bring in i love turfs why did you distinguish why did you distinguish um the

01:44:07.380 phenomenon of trans from gay lesbian then because like i think it's a natural phenomenon it's you

01:44:15.460 know four percent of the population recaptured um so why would you not think that trans is has 1.00

01:44:23.060 similar attributes but a much much smaller percentage did you want to go i'm jumping

01:44:28.580 with the answer you can um the reason why it's different from being gay and trans is that you can

01:44:33.380 actually measure gayness in a person you can measure whether they experience arousal you can 0.82

01:44:38.260 see it in their brain it is something that has concrete evidence that exists transness gender

01:44:43.860 identity that has not been mapped out on the brain at all some argue that you can do brain scans and

01:44:48.820 you can see it the only study that people like playing to in the study they said okay compared

01:44:55.780 to males trans women and they got a specific type of trans women they got ones that were 0.88

01:45:01.780 preference was, I'll get to that in a moment, but a very specific type of trans woman, and

01:45:07.840 they're like, their brains are similar to women. And there was some similarity, it wasn't 0.99

01:45:13.080 exact, but at the same time, even though their brains were more similar to women than men,

01:45:17.620 their brains were actually most similar to gay men. So what was being tracked wasn't

01:45:22.680 gender identity, it was arousal. Well, you said that, but you can argue it the other 0.99

01:45:29.660 way right but i think it's that's kind of what it seems to me that would be one piece of evidence

01:45:34.620 that could like result in people saying okay i'd be more accepting of this yeah

01:45:40.220 and in that study there was some way of determining that there was some characteristic of the brain

01:45:45.580 that was uh and if there was i would definitely move because if we lived in a world where we could

01:45:51.100 do a brain scan and completely say that someone was trans then i'd be more would you move to i 0.54

01:45:57.580 would probably honestly depending on how concrete this evidence was i might even move to like a

01:46:02.220 greater slightly degree depending on so because if we had a concrete to diagnose this then you know

01:46:08.780 what suddenly these operations might have more cause to them but we don't and we we don't put

01:46:15.340 any sort of like measurement to whether a person is trans when they say they're trans if trans was

01:46:21.020 actually a biological symptom or biological in nature then i would absolutely agree that search

01:46:26.620 would be an option but that's just not true the matter of the fact is that it's mental in nature 0.65

01:46:30.780 and it's always been mental in nature you choose if you want to mutilate your genitals 0.83

01:46:35.980 all right let's get the person with the spiciest t-shirt on into the circle 0.99

01:46:41.420 i love turfs have you been following along what do you think of all this what do you think of all

01:46:45.660 this well here's also a bit of context i am a lesbian so would you like to hear my perspective

01:46:51.740 as the resident mo of the circle absolutely so no i don't believe someone could be born trans 0.79

01:46:59.440 mostly because to me as an observation it has been a social contagion okay my ex-fiancé transitioned

01:47:06.960 after a traumatic event and her mother died so she immediately tried to throw herself in the mat

01:47:11.780 because that was the easiest way of maintaining contact with a community right lonely isolated

01:47:17.460 people are going to fall into things when they are vulnerable and people prey on that and people

01:47:22.900 did prey on that she transitioned now maybe about four or five other people in her immediate social

01:47:31.360 circle including her sister also transitioned because generally they're mostly online they

01:47:37.020 live in a very biopic echo chamber right the same thing if you see many spaces like okay so on reddit

01:47:42.280 that's going to be an echo chamber you're constantly being fed back a loop of your own

01:47:46.600 feelings, your own opinions, whether or not they're actually rooted in reality, right?

01:47:51.200 So again, it comes back down to loneliness and community when it comes down to self-sustaining.

01:47:55.640 I have never met a single person in my life or heard of a single person in my life who

01:48:00.720 was born trans.

01:48:03.160 It is always an adopted idea, and even with the idea of the trans kid, have you ever heard

01:48:09.280 of the concept of a vegan cat?

01:48:10.920 Totally.

01:48:11.920 Because you know that that cat is not in control of the diet, it's the owner in this

01:48:16.580 For the child it would be the parent. The parent is at the driving wheel. If they buy into the ideology and their child goes,

01:48:22.660 I don't feel like a girl, mommy.

01:48:26.740 Of course they're gonna go, you know what?

01:48:28.320 We're gonna do everything we can to make sure that you're the little boy that you think you are.

01:48:32.760 Does that child really have much of a concept beyond like, I like the things that those boys over there like?

01:48:38.580 I want to do the things that the boys are doing or I want to play in the way the boys are doing.

01:48:42.460 That's just a tomboy, right?

01:48:44.460 they're not they're not mentally male there's nothing mentally male about that it's just they

01:48:50.220 want to go do those fun activities and so a lot of the times young girls will project that and

01:48:55.020 be like i want to be a boy too no they just want to go do little boy things but at this point in

01:49:00.220 time like they should realistically be able to do that without being questioned or enforced

01:49:05.740 upon an ideology that has nothing to do with being an actual child like we are so obsessed

01:49:12.780 with controlling whether or not like this activity is for boys this activity is for girls and we're

01:49:19.260 trying to like people are out here trying to say like we celebrate celebrate gender non-conformity

01:49:24.060 but you're still forcing kids into a binary of one or the other like oh you're a girl and you

01:49:28.540 play with boy toys and you must be a boy if you're a boy who likes to play with like girls clothes 0.99

01:49:33.980 and you must be a girl it's still a binary but that's still an adopted mentality from the parents

01:49:39.180 not the child yeah so what about in terms of evidence in terms of becoming less certain

01:49:46.300 about your position yeah is there any evidence that would make you um less on the strongly

01:49:53.340 disagreement no i'm very like i'm one of i'm someone who's very very confident in the fact

01:49:59.980 that no like you cannot be foreign trans it is a choice sorry if i produced a brain scan

01:50:07.580 showing a commonality amongst women, in other words, men who transition to women, that show female so-called, I'm using that term loosely here, obviously, brain characteristics that would be consistent with if they thought they were women.

01:50:30.420 Are you talking about males?

01:50:32.880 Males who transition to females. 0.72

01:50:34.500 So you're talking about in adult life?

01:50:36.640 Yes.

01:50:37.640 Not born.

01:50:38.640 I'm not sure.

01:50:39.640 I'm taking children off of this story.

01:50:41.640 No!

01:50:42.640 That's not how we started.

01:50:43.640 It's about being born that way.

01:50:44.640 No, no, no.

01:50:45.640 There's two separate questions.

01:50:47.640 I'm taking children out in terms of...

01:50:48.640 I'm answering the question we're supposed to be answering.

01:50:50.640 Well, it's related.

01:50:51.640 I'm not talking about adulthood.

01:50:53.640 I'm talking about birth.

01:50:55.640 Well, what's your hypothetical real quick?

01:50:58.640 If I...

01:50:59.640 Well, could you do a brain scan of an infant?

01:51:02.640 You don't know what the child is thinking.

01:51:05.640 Can the scan study that you are talking about physics would be replicated successfully multiple times?

01:51:11.740 I don't think it would be even six times.

01:51:13.140 Can it?

01:51:13.720 Are you saying that for a certain?

01:51:15.540 No, I'm saying, I'm saying, no, I'm not.

01:51:16.800 I'm saying, if I were able to produce for you that data, would you change your mind?

01:51:21.460 That's a hypothetical, though.

01:51:22.340 You can't replicate that.

01:51:23.660 It is. It's a hypothetical.

01:51:24.680 We're trying to just think of a possible...

01:51:26.320 But that's why I'm here.

01:51:27.560 A thought experience.

01:51:29.220 You don't even want to entertain it.

01:51:30.620 Because it's a male-bodied person.

01:51:32.280 You're still trying to convince a homosexual that a male-bodied individual can think of it. 0.99

01:51:35.560 I totally agree.

01:51:36.560 That they are female, they're not. 1.00

01:51:37.560 No, I'm not.

01:51:38.560 I'm not.

01:51:39.560 I didn't see that.

01:51:40.560 I said, biologically, a male is a male, a female is a female. 0.98

01:51:43.560 If they transition, they're still biologically what they were born.

01:51:46.560 They're still male.

01:51:47.560 But they may perceive themselves as trans.

01:51:50.560 The question is, that's psychological perception.

01:51:52.560 It's a psychological perception.

01:51:54.560 Correct.

01:51:55.560 Psychology is also biological.

01:51:57.560 It comes out of your biology.

01:51:58.560 It comes out of cells.

01:52:00.560 It also comes out of interaction with society.

01:52:03.560 before you can be influenced by society, right?

01:52:05.960 I'm just saying, if you take an infant,

01:52:08.040 who has zero, has no, okay.

01:52:11.000 I thought you said that we had to talk about it.

01:52:13.740 I know, but you're flip-flopping now.

01:52:15.740 So pick one lane, and we'll go from there.

01:52:17.680 We take an infant that has just been born,

01:52:20.680 and are able to do a brain scan,

01:52:22.420 and can determine that a male infant

01:52:27.160 has brain scans that are very similar to female,

01:52:29.620 and as you watch them, they decide that they're trans,

01:52:32.260 as an adult.

01:52:33.260 They decide us.

01:52:34.260 But then, if I'm creating the package...

01:52:37.260 You're talking about David Bowie.

01:52:39.260 I'm just saying, like, you and I are on the same page, that they are still male.

01:52:44.260 That doesn't change, like, a thought doesn't change the fact that...

01:52:47.260 That's completely different, whether you're male or female.

01:52:49.260 Hold on, hold on.

01:52:50.260 A thought does not change the fact that your physical reality dictates that you are still male.

01:52:54.260 Correct, correct.

01:52:55.260 So we are on the same page.

01:52:56.260 Yes, on that question.

01:52:57.260 That evidence of these brain scans wouldn't change the fact that they're male.

01:52:59.260 No, it wouldn't change your biological sex.

01:53:01.260 i know but i'm not saying it's biological sex i'm saying but biological sex it's not your

01:53:07.180 gonads it's not whether you've got sperm or eggs it's rather whether you have a psychological

01:53:13.260 thought does not dictate actual reality it sure does for a lot of people wait what does so if i

01:53:20.220 think i am a wacky waving arm flailing inflatable tube man then i must be one right no i wouldn't

01:53:27.020 use that i wouldn't say that that's what but that's essentially what you're saying you're

01:53:31.020 saying this thought for a lot of people dictates whether or not that's but we know that's not

01:53:37.660 no but you're invalidating her identity what you were saying you're invalidating that one

01:53:42.380 because i don't think there's any data for that one she he's invalidating you i don't think

01:53:47.660 i don't actually for you i don't actually believe that i'm a wacky way

01:53:51.020 If you produce a brain scan, you can convince me.

01:53:55.020 That was interesting to me to be, from what we were talking about with everyone,

01:53:59.020 that that kind of tangible marker

01:54:03.020 would allow some people to become more

01:54:07.020 tangible. I think so. I think so. Because what we have now,

01:54:11.020 what we were talking about before, is just this feeling that someone has.

01:54:15.020 And we have no way of determining, is that feeling

01:54:19.020 legitimately tied to something

01:54:22.540 that can be universally

01:54:24.260 agreed upon

01:54:26.620 or just sort of a

01:54:28.400 spontaneous thing that I just

01:54:30.240 Can I ask you a question? Since you've

01:54:32.380 defined what you think is

01:54:33.960 by feeling, essentially psychological

01:54:36.280 feeling, and this is a real example of people

01:54:38.340 who are like, is someone

01:54:40.120 who feels like they should be blind

01:54:42.540 are they blind

01:54:44.060 or should they be? No, not

01:54:46.280 if they're not blind. So what is the

01:54:48.300 difference then if someone thinks that they're female and they're not actually female i don't

01:54:53.080 know i don't know that it's there's a perfect equation i mean i take your point yeah and it's

01:54:57.640 the same point that she was making we do the same thing with race too though like rachel dolezal is 0.96

01:55:02.460 an example is a white woman who thinks she's black then there is um other celebrity who is it when

01:55:07.000 stefani for a while was pretending she was a japanese woman i don't know that's what i'm saying

01:55:11.140 if the thought doesn't make it true if it can be proved i mean i just read helen joyce's book you

01:55:16.920 Which I really enjoyed and I saw no errors in her book, just to let you know, Ellen Joyce's book has no errors in it.

01:55:25.920 I just lost my frame here.

01:55:29.920 This is about the, you're getting onto the brain scans.

01:55:32.920 Yeah, the person who thinks they're blind, if there was a brain scan that showed the part of their brain that thought they were blind, does that make it legitimate?

01:55:41.920 No, not necessarily, because obviously blindness is determined by something else.

01:55:45.920 else. Sex is determined by a lot of gender. But the case of trans is not the same. It is primarily a thinking

01:55:54.520 psychological person. It's not an eyeball. It's not a physical thing. Blindness is actually determined by something. But transness is a belief. But if you believe it, it's still valid for some reason. But if this person believes that they're blind, it's not necessarily valid. 0.65

01:56:09.800 so i got a great hypothetical that i want to ask everyone but before i want to you brought

01:56:14.760 up something that i think is like so crucial to this topic which is you brought up like kind of

01:56:19.480 people being chronically online and then filling their so like how big of a role do you think that

01:56:24.440 plays in this cultural contagion today a lot it's like this is what i put this phrase i said earlier

01:56:29.320 it's a myopic echo chamber right like yeah you're constantly going to be fed back your own opinion

01:56:34.920 if you were never looking for opinions that might disprove you right like right i talked to a lot of

01:56:39.720 different people every single day like it's it's funny to me after having this last election so

01:56:44.760 many people coming up to me assuming that i voted liberal no i absolutely voted conservative because

01:56:48.840 they were the only party that was willing to sit and listen to me which is funny enough because

01:56:53.160 you would think that the liberals would want to hear from the constituents right no they don't

01:56:56.760 they don't want to they want to keep drive forth the narrative same with people in these types of

01:57:01.480 record papers they want to drive forth the narrative right gay history is being rewritten

01:57:06.040 Canadian history is being rewritten to suit these specific narratives why because there are so many

01:57:10.360 of these people sitting in these echo chambers turning their phones thinking that this is the

01:57:14.040 right thing to do because generally no it's not like you're inviting a lot of change and inviting

01:57:19.160 a lot of chaos at a time when it's already chaos so a couple more things um when it comes to like

01:57:26.120 being chronically online it's kind of it makes me think of a couple things

01:57:31.400 pornography is online people are becoming addicted to their phones

01:57:35.060 potentially porn as well and then along with that I feel like a defense

01:57:39.440 mechanism that a lot of like pro trans or pro chance kids people say is no no 0.67

01:57:44.600 this has nothing nothing to do with sex okay that's another fun thing spend

01:57:49.160 about five minutes on Lex in Ottawa you will find a grown adult in their 30s

01:57:55.800 specifically looking for people of the age of 13 years old so that they can

01:58:00.420 mentor them about their sexual orientation or gender identity is that

01:58:03.900 seem appropriate what's Lex what's that that says a queer app it's essentially

01:58:08.940 queer Twitter right okay like you can go on this app here in Ottawa there was

01:58:17.420 someone like in their mid-30s I claimed to be a counselor specifically looking

01:58:21.760 for uh youth of the age of 13 years old so that they could mentor them and i'm saying like

01:58:27.600 okay you can't control what your kids are up to like outside of house you definitely can't control

01:58:31.840 who they're talking to online and when they're in spaces like discord where they're having people

01:58:36.640 doing like oh don't worry i can coach you through this they're absolutely being set up to be groomed

01:58:40.800 by predators and predators are looking for these opportunities everywhere that's why we had like

01:58:46.320 I guess I brought this up earlier talking to someone else.

01:58:48.080 Two years ago, Faye Johnstone and friends had that little pity party parade

01:58:52.940 wandering down the street advocating against the rental guardianship, right?

01:58:57.900 These echo chambers breed these kinds of ideas

01:59:00.400 because they think the most basic thing about being a child 1.00

01:59:03.520 or being disciplined as a child, like being in your fucking room, is abuse. 1.00

01:59:08.560 You know what I mean? 1.00

01:59:09.280 Yeah, yeah.

01:59:10.120 I talked to Faye Johnstone and I asked her the question as she was walking by,

01:59:14.460 like, you know, can you be born trans?

01:59:16.320 she couldn't give me an answer uh why do you think she couldn't give me an answer 1.00

01:59:19.680 being like this kind of marvel superhero of canada zachary johnstone knows he is a gay man

01:59:24.880 and he has talked about this and i have a recording of him talking about this while

01:59:28.800 he was drunk on stage having a bay johnstone question hour he knows he's gay man he knows

01:59:35.760 case closed all right i had i had a hypothetical i think it might kind of close off on the social

01:59:40.640 I totally agree with what you said, that it's very likely that the vast majority of people who claim to be trans are not trans.

01:59:50.640 Right. So here's a great hypothetical that we can end with, I think, potentially.

01:59:56.640 And that is, there's someone who is younger and they transition younger.

02:00:04.640 okay and then they decide to detransition so this kind of presents the question were they born

02:00:10.700 trans and then like kind of uh reject their trans ideology later their trans identity later on by

02:00:19.340 detransitioning or were they never born trans that's an easy one to answer okay and so no they 0.96

02:00:25.820 weren't they were not friends but the ones who don't detransition and who are happy with what

02:00:31.080 they did whether there's surgery or not is the point if there's surgery the the repercussions

02:00:38.260 of having surgery are much more dramatic and potentially damaging but if somebody doesn't

02:00:43.940 have surgery doesn't take lockers doesn't take the hormones sees themselves as trans lives 0.92

02:00:50.920 trans whatever that means in that context there's no harm done sure but it like it kind of goes back

02:00:57.520 that whole question of like is trans just a feeling or is it like an innate thing that you're

02:01:02.640 born as right that's dismissive right so feeling is like something superficial that you just sort

02:01:07.600 of come up with on the way i think most people who that's the feelings are powerful though

02:01:12.960 absolutely absolutely so i would i would go more than feeling it's a serious self-perception uh

02:01:20.400 yeah based on certain realities sure how much is biological is the question that we're talking

02:01:26.800 about the part that is social or the result of influence that wouldn't otherwise come

02:01:35.200 we might want to dismiss that although you sure you could also say that there may be some people

02:01:40.560 who would be trans if uh the bigotry against them weren't so large right uh did you want to

02:01:49.680 share your comments on that hypothetical well i wanted to address what you had said beforehand

02:01:53.440 about the people who say it's not about sex were you afraid about like the difference between sex

02:01:58.000 and gender um uh not not really actually i i i guess i was but you can comment on that either

02:02:07.120 way i find when people say it's not about sex it's gender and i'm very surprised about this

02:02:11.440 because we all seem to agree at least mostly that sex is not the same as gender sex is a biological

02:02:18.400 thing and gender is hard to define and completely a social construct and they agree it's a social

02:02:25.280 contract which confuses me because why would you abide by a social contract social contracts

02:02:30.640 change depending on the culture the time the location you live in they're constantly changing

02:02:36.160 i don't understand why we we put all these rights to something that is a social contract it's not

02:02:41.200 entirely a social construct because there's a very large correlation between your biological

02:02:47.680 sex and your gender it's not a coincidence that you know 95 of people who are heterosexual are

02:02:54.800 either males or females right no but i would disagree with that because i know drag queens 1.00

02:03:00.960 and like although they're born biologically male they can put on all of the feminine

02:03:05.360 characteristics i know but that's gender i i'm not talking about them so i'm saying i'm saying

02:03:10.880 if you want to include uh drag queens as a particular category i don't know cross-dressers

02:03:16.240 or whatever you want to call them.

02:03:17.940 Maybe I'm misusing the term.

02:03:21.140 That's still a gender phenomenon. 1.00

02:03:23.080 That's not a biological phenomenon.

02:03:25.180 There's still a huge correlation.

02:03:26.780 No, it's a dressing up as a woman phenomenon. 1.00

02:03:29.020 What do you mean?

02:03:30.400 So that's not...

02:03:31.600 There's still male or female.

02:03:33.520 Right, but they look like women 1.00

02:03:35.020 because they perform feminine... 0.99

02:03:36.800 They present feminine traits. 0.96

02:03:39.140 That's a gender phenomenon. 1.00

02:03:40.240 Right, but where does the biology come into that

02:03:41.900 if they successfully pull off?

02:03:43.520 It doesn't.

02:03:44.100 It doesn't.

02:03:44.540 I'm saying, when I say there's a high correlation, I'm not saying it's a 100% correlation.

02:03:48.680 There are people who are lesbians and gays, for instance, are males or females who have sexual love for the same sex.

02:03:59.280 That's a gender phenomenon, not a sex... 1.00

02:04:00.900 That's a sexual orientation thing.

02:04:02.360 Yeah, but it's related.

02:04:03.560 But I do get what you...

02:04:04.520 Orientation, gender, and not the same thing. 1.00

02:04:05.380 Yeah, I get what you...

02:04:06.380 You're right, but I think my point is still valid.

02:04:08.460 Yeah, I get what you mean, though, that, like, gay people and lesbian people,

02:04:11.600 they tend to on average be non gender conforming that is a phenomenon that is documented very well

02:04:19.040 yes it does exist but what does that have to do with anything why can't a man just be a feminine 0.94

02:04:24.720 man why can't we have a masculine woman yes but we live in a society right now where if you are 1.00

02:04:30.560 a masculine woman you must be a man that wasn't the point i was making i was saying that in some

02:04:36.320 I would say there's no correlation between gender and sex because there's a high proportion of people who are male who act like men, right?

02:04:46.320 And females who act like women. 1.00

02:04:49.320 So it's highly correlated.

02:04:52.320 And same with gender identity, not just gender, but there's also a high correlation between gender and gender identity.

02:05:00.320 Did you have any questions you wanted to ask?

02:05:03.320 Honestly, I was only half the same for the last moment.

02:05:06.020 Okay, okay.

02:05:06.680 I think we're getting kind of probably exhausted.

02:05:10.060 I wanted to ask you about your shirt.

02:05:14.120 Yeah.

02:05:14.340 Can I get a close-up?

02:05:15.420 Yeah.

02:05:16.480 Because you can go and have something to do.

02:05:19.500 Very cool, very cool, very cool.

02:05:21.900 So what's the meaning behind the shirt?

02:05:23.700 Why are you wearing the shirt?

02:05:24.500 I love turfs.

02:05:26.020 Well, once again, turfs are literally the only people 1.00

02:05:30.000 that are willing to actually just 0.98

02:05:31.880 leave lesbians be 1.00

02:05:33.440 they're not trying to police us 0.98

02:05:35.760 they're not trying to bully us or wrangle us

02:05:38.160 into being bisexual

02:05:39.020 I think there's one that was here earlier that was asking me about the phenomenon

02:05:42.140 of the trans lesbian and I was like

02:05:44.060 oh yeah that's literally 0.60

02:05:46.060 just because lesbians 1.00

02:05:48.060 are probably one of the most vulnerable

02:05:49.840 women out of 1.00

02:05:51.840 bisexuals and heterosexuals

02:05:54.000 it's generally predatory if that's why

02:05:55.980 they come after us because it's like getting 0.71

02:05:57.760 trophy so so the trans women is like the men who are male and you suddenly identify as a lesbian 1.00

02:06:05.680 specifically going after lesbians i hate to break it to you but you're a fucking rapist 1.00

02:06:10.820 you heard it here first news this just in this just in breaking breaking news breaking news 1.00

02:06:20.120 when it comes to i love turfs no genuinely those are the only people that i am willing to give the

02:06:25.780 time of day at this point in time like if you are someone who considers yourself to be a trans

02:06:30.880 exclusionary radical feminist I want to talk to you I want to hang out I want to meet you yeah

02:06:34.920 have you heard of a redux mag yes shout outs redux one time like why what do you like about

02:06:41.560 them like seldom you're hitting all the topics that we're not allowed to talk about in cdc or

02:06:46.480 ctv again companies that I have worked for once upon a time oh wow um security it's a big thing

02:06:52.840 but I like the fact that we get to touch on subjects

02:06:56.240 that they will continue to dance around.

02:06:59.460 But like, we're all like happy little spin narrative

02:07:02.500 that we know is factually untrue.

02:07:06.000 Yeah, absolutely.

02:07:07.060 So, read us. We're here for you.

02:07:09.300 And for like, did you watch the flag raising thing?

02:07:14.260 Yeah, I was just a few feet behind you guys.

02:07:17.060 I was trying to see over top.

02:07:18.900 As close as I've ever been to an actual vampire, Mark Carney.

02:07:22.840 I felt my youth being drained from me.

02:07:25.820 It was bizarre.

02:07:26.820 That's what that feeling was.

02:07:27.820 Yeah.

02:07:28.820 It was cold.

02:07:29.820 It was weird.

02:07:30.820 I thought that whole ceremony thing was a little bizarre.

02:07:33.820 I don't know why it started off with like...

02:07:36.820 Was that like an indigenous children's story?

02:07:39.820 What was that?

02:07:40.820 I don't have a problem with indigenous people in general,

02:07:43.820 but I'm just saying that was a strange way to begin that.

02:07:45.840 It felt very like he was a pastor.

02:07:48.840 Yeah.

02:07:49.840 You know what I mean?

02:07:50.840 to me it was just really weird yeah so for me i was like okay and then for the fact that they

02:07:57.160 were standing there being like canada needs to be a place for everyone to be safe and blah blah blah

02:08:02.460 blah and i'm standing there like me does that count does that include me because so far 0.86

02:08:06.600 i am being punished in the job market i can't fucking get a job because of the beliefs that 0.96

02:08:11.820 i hold because it goes against the policy that our government is enforcing in literally every 0.98

02:08:15.640 workplace that's crazy like that's blah always have to sign something when you're going into a

02:08:24.000 new workplace regardless of whether or not you believe in it like it's just one of those things

02:08:27.700 so being here today and listening to them talk about how yes we are all free and we all have

02:08:36.500 the rights that i don't it's it's so much fortune it is so much fortune is canada even a real place

02:08:46.040 yeah and like you know at one point the pride movement maybe actually meant something to

02:08:53.100 lesbians and gay like like how did you feel seeing the that that specific flag be raised 0.50

02:09:00.980 like what kind of goes through your mind as you're kind of seeing seeing this happen like

02:09:04.600 What does it mean to you now, the Pride flag?

02:09:08.160 It means about as much to me as the gum on the bottom of my shoes.

02:09:12.460 I used to participate in Pride when I first came out in my early 20s.

02:09:18.820 And even back then, that was when kinks started being incorporated into Pride. 0.99

02:09:23.200 BDSM started being incorporated in Pride.

02:09:24.660 He started seeing a lot more inappropriate things out in the street.

02:09:28.340 That is meant to be a joyful celebration for everyone to participate in.

02:09:32.440 And now, when I go to Pride, can you explain to me why there is, like, Pin the Vulva?

02:09:39.720 No.

02:09:40.480 Yeah, like, Pin the Vulva. 1.00

02:09:41.480 A game was Pin the Vulva on the pussy, and then there was another one that was ring-tossed on a bunch of dildos. 1.00

02:09:46.840 These were the games that were designed for kids. 0.99

02:09:50.040 No!

02:09:51.040 I'm not kidding.

02:09:52.420 These were the games that were designed for kids.

02:09:54.720 Sigh.

02:09:55.600 Long sigh.

02:09:56.320 when i think about pride now i just think of sexual degeneracy and more advocacy for things

02:10:04.080 i don't believe in and choose not to associate myself with yeah it's like yeah it's about the

02:10:08.500 same sex loving each other loving each other loving each other why are they not actually

02:10:12.980 like you know whipping each other like bumming in the street like that's not what we were about 0.99

02:10:17.920 if you want to know we're at home man you're gonna have sex at pride do it at home yeah what 0.99

02:10:23.440 is wrong with you um i'm not here for the voyeurism i don't like that uh one last question for you 0.99

02:10:28.940 would be you know someone who is at this event today who's very much like maybe that maybe they

02:10:34.840 have trans kids like or maybe they they have a friend who has a trans kids they're deep in the 1.00

02:10:39.100 sauce yeah like what's the one thing that you would try to say to like get through to them

02:10:45.080 oh that's a heavy one yeah can you solve this problem yeah it is kind of a big a big uh ask

02:10:52.480 right okay assuming it's like their kids or like they're like they have kids

02:10:56.160 they're teenagers or something like that like i would have to ask them is supporting something

02:11:01.840 like this so blindly worth medicalizing your child for the rest of their life and shortening

02:11:08.000 their life by maybe a good 30 years is that worth supporting this because it's the right thing to

02:11:12.720 do with the time yeah i think blindly supporting is a good yeah good support good adverb we really

02:11:18.880 really need to start scrutinizing especially the medical processes those are things that

02:11:22.880 desperately need to be looked at especially if you're a parent because if you're pushing it on

02:11:27.280 blindly you don't always know what the consequences of medicalization is going to be sure there's

02:11:35.120 risks that come with it things that are happily ignored when you're going through the process

02:11:38.960 and then years later they become consequences that catch up with you and we're seeing that

02:11:41.840 now with the e-transitioners and the e-transitioners are not getting the medical support that they need 1.00

02:11:46.240 on top of that so yeah is that worth it yeah and speaking of which i i feel like every time i bring

02:11:53.320 up the detransitioner talking point they're like oh no it's a myth the numbers aren't even that bad

02:11:57.140 that's crazy talk so the numbers aren't even that bad it's crazy talk so not that long ago the

02:12:04.260 numbers for trans people used to be less than one percent now we're trying to claim that it's over

02:12:07.900 four percent of the population that's wild so if the numbers aren't that bad if the numbers for

02:12:13.320 trans people can grow that big that quickly do you not think the numbers of detransitioners can 1.00

02:12:19.100 do the same yeah yeah uh did you want to plug any social media or anything or shout out to uh

02:12:26.900 any of your turfs out there uh no i'm really not big on social media i i'm not the type of person

02:12:35.200 that likes to stay online too much if you see me out and about feel free to say hi cool friendly

02:12:41.640 like that awesome awesome well yeah unless there's something you want to add like thanks so much for

02:12:46.760 participating i saw you with the shirt on i'm like i hope i hope she comes to say something you know

02:12:51.160 like yeah yeah all right cool awesome yeah thank you cheers all right do you want to wrap up this

02:12:59.720 live stream let's do uh let's do a quick huddle we're still live streaming yeah so so what did

02:13:04.680 I thought it was somewhat chaotic because we went to the University of Ottawa and we came over here and we had a lot of, thank you so much.

02:13:16.680 You can still talk to him, I just want you to record it with a good camera.

02:13:19.680 Yeah, so I was a bit discombobulated, I've got to admit, and there's so many Mervyn parts, but I thought there were some great conversations that took place and this is the kind of thing that needs to happen.

02:13:31.680 but I don't know how successful it was in terms of getting down, drilling down into the assumptions.

02:13:39.980 Yeah, so it was confusing because I don't think we ever managed to speak the same language

02:13:46.700 and it's always a problem because it's so hard to find trends

02:13:51.760 and so nobody was ever really talking about the same thing at the same time as far as I can tell.

02:13:57.120 the mother-daughter battle or disagreement that I think just added a

02:14:03.080 really hilarious element and they were lovely

02:14:07.580 she left thinking that she was going to think about a lot of things that she

02:14:12.460 said so that's a success but it's just I think laying down the terms and

02:14:17.620 everybody making sure that they're talking about the right thing is how you

02:14:20.320 have a successful conversation and I don't think we managed it. I think it was successful in the

02:14:24.500 sense that everyone kind of left with more interesting thoughts in their head than when

02:14:30.260 they came but i think it's correct what mia was saying that i was i was getting more and more kind

02:14:36.500 of confused about how to kind of where to proceed like what's the next yeah to go which does happen

02:14:43.780 especially if you've got lots of people that are involved and you're not you're not really tracking

02:14:50.100 what's being talked about i i felt like there was a lot of sort of like speaking past each

02:14:54.420 other yeah excuse me but the brain scan was interesting that seems to come up time and time

02:15:01.460 again i didn't get to weigh in on brain scans so what was your thoughts what's way in now i don't

02:15:07.940 really i didn't hear what they were saying they're saying that if we could get some linkage between

02:15:12.900 the brain and people who believe that they will be trans then this would move us closer to having 0.99

02:15:19.140 some kind of objective kind of actual identity that was rooted in something that was tangible

02:15:26.020 as opposed to just being a feeling that someone had okay so that would make them move more towards

02:15:32.900 the the born transposition if you could get a brain scan that was linked to the trans identity

02:15:41.380 well sure but that's like saying if you can find something that detects auras then i'll believe in 1.00

02:15:48.180 already yeah but that's kind of the evidence like like it's for me it's a little bit

02:15:56.020 interesting to try to get people to think about like almost in terms of this idea of

02:16:00.660 falsifiability there you go completely like you know falsifiability there isn't any of that in

02:16:07.540 trans discussion well i told the guy yeah well if it's just a feeling and he's like whoa that's

02:16:12.100 like so just he said dismissive or something to call it just a feeling and i'm like well

02:16:16.100 it seems pretty fleeting like you know it's something that's powerful we feel feelings and

02:16:21.280 it's like they're hard to measure it's it's quite it's quite a mess like like the conversation i'm

02:16:28.040 like man this really is a mess when people are coming from you know biological physical mental 1.00

02:16:33.560 spiritual emotional and it's like yeah it's crazy i thought it was a little bit chaotic but still

02:16:44.040 it's you know these things are successes just by happening yeah like that's kind of like we're

02:16:49.960 trying to say look this is not a taboo subject this is an important social concern that we

02:16:56.520 should be addressing and this allows us to do it whereas in other contexts you can't

02:17:02.840 in the universities for example it's really hard well sure and i think um our little commentary on

02:17:09.960 on the flag raising generated some strong feelings and probably some people went away

02:17:16.040 thinking about us yeah you you had someone you had a gay guy behind you being like stop being 0.98

02:17:21.860 hateful you're being hateful stop it and i was like uh sir you're the one being disrupted right

02:17:27.600 now if you haven't noticed uh that was my favorite part of the day well and i had there was a man who

02:17:32.660 came up to me and took a photo right in my face with his phone and took a photograph yeah in a

02:17:37.540 trying to intimidate me

02:17:39.400 that's so I know who you are

02:17:41.780 as if I can

02:17:43.460 well and yeah

02:17:46.420 like you said it's meant to intimidate

02:17:48.540 of course

02:17:49.140 anyway I think

02:17:52.760 it's time for a drink

02:17:53.920 time for a drink

02:17:54.600 alright I'll wrap up this live stream then

02:17:57.720 thanks so much

02:17:58.460 that's it folks that's all

02:18:01.760 guys

02:18:03.260 let me just unplug this

02:18:05.900 I hope you enjoyed the stream shout outs to Mia Hughes shout outs to Francis

02:18:14.940 widowson I'm getting tired I got to drink something but guys if you enjoyed

02:18:19.500 this stream oh man send a donation send a donation to give send go.com slash

02:18:27.680 save free speech give send go.com slash save free speech if you enjoyed the

02:18:33.280 stream. There's a lot of, you know, there's a lot of content coming down the pipe. I know I haven't

02:18:37.620 been very active. I'm working on this documentary. I'm working on this documentary. It's a bigger

02:18:43.040 project. It's not just going to be a YouTube video, guys. It's going to be broadcast ready,

02:18:49.020 submitted to film festivals, and there's a lot of work to do. I'm lining up a bunch of big

02:18:54.380 interviews, which I'm excited about, and there's a lot to pay for as well. I'm going to be going

02:18:58.580 at west interviewing some folks some folks you've definitely heard of so uh not just for this stream

02:19:03.700 but to support that documentary go to gibsongo.com save free speech and yeah thanks so much for

02:19:11.540 for tuning in thanks for watching and until next time talk to you soon

Greg Wycliffe - June 11, 2025

LIVE on Parliament Hill - can you be born trans？ Frances Widdowson & Mia Hughes

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