Randy Hillier has been in the Ontario Police Service for over 20 years. He is a lawyer, activist, and human rights advocate. He has been involved in numerous constitutional challenges against the police and has won many of them. In this episode, we talk about the Kemptville, Ontario lockdowns, and how he fought for civil disobedience.
00:05:20.500This was at the height of the lockdowns.
00:05:23.380This is where there was no allowance for anyone to be gathering outside for any reason other than the prescribed, you know, health care or groceries or LCBO.
00:05:38.600But, you know, there was various thresholds over the lockdowns.
00:05:45.640You know, sometimes five people were allowed to get together, sometimes ten, sometimes twenty.
00:06:08.600um that we won in court on so that that video was played in court uh no because we won the
00:06:16.200constitutional challenge all right the charges were stayed so you didn't even go to trial
00:06:22.600not on those ones i've got enough other
00:06:27.320enough other trials so and unfortunately everybody in that video is now
00:06:31.800dead because they weren't wearing a mask no i'm just kidding just kidding just kidding they are
00:06:36.760all alive and well and they still call and uh and chat and uh uh comment about what a marvelous day
00:06:45.000it was at the bistro um and yes i don't think the public health and the opp were so um thinking it
00:06:53.400was so marvelous but uh all the other patrons drinking beer and uh enjoying a nice spring
00:07:00.600evening in camp though yeah and tonight we're gonna get into the kind of latest with your
00:07:07.220never-ending story your never-ending charges uh since the convoy we'll kind of get into the
00:07:12.520details the weeds on that we'll talk a little bit about bill c9 we'll talk a little bit about
00:07:16.720world war three uh that kind of fun stuff but i wanted to go back to that clip real quick because
00:07:22.480It reminds me of another viral convoy clip or, you know, COVID era clip, which is when the sort of guilty anti-mask or anti-vaxxer was able to get the police to fuck off, basically, part of my language.
00:07:41.560but they were they were able to get the police to go away uh the other clip was um archer pavlowski
00:07:47.200if you remember when there's that viral clip of a whole bunch of you know at least a half dozen to
00:07:53.260a dozen police officers coming in with their mask and he's just like get out get out screaming uh
00:07:59.380but it is cool to see that when the will of the people that the kind of lion lion's roar
00:08:04.520of the righteousness yeah yeah we had a few of those peterborough was another big example of
00:08:11.480that where the uh um but we had quite a number of uh instances where um the audience and the
00:08:21.960participants uh practice what i believe is the the finest art and and most noble undertaking
00:08:31.560of a citizen of a country and that is a peaceful non-violent civil disobedience when government
00:08:38.280imposes wrongdoings and injustice on people and i think that's a good clip to just show how it can
00:08:45.080be done nothing violent nothing no property damage no violence but asserting your freedom
00:08:54.680and asserting that the police have an obligation to respect you.
00:09:01.080Yeah, it definitely helps when you're in a group,
00:09:05.840all kind of pushing in the same direction,
00:09:22.560If I'm not mistaken, throughout your convoy charges, this was one of the wins, you said, right?
00:09:31.500Like there was a constitutional W in terms of thanks to your sort of pushback in the courts, they were able to determine that some of the lockdown measures were unconstitutional.
00:10:28.200and um when it comes to like the implications of of the win like you know when we tally up
00:10:36.840like let's just say like you know a pandemic happens tomorrow and like they try to impose
00:10:41.440the same rules like what are we looking at in terms of uh you know safeguards that we've created
00:10:48.360or safeguards that are not there i know this could go into like a big whole discussion but uh
00:10:52.700yeah still still not nearly where we need to be but there's still some cases pending uh you know
00:10:59.860of course there's the big uh uh case pending uh where the government's uh appealing the mosley
00:11:06.000decision uh and the enactment of the emergency act so that's uh um that will be an important one but
00:11:13.920but it's not only the the winds but it's also the like in this case with the lockdowns this
00:11:21.680was the first time any court in our country ruled on peaceful assembly if you can believe it since
00:11:31.520the charter was enacted in 1982 there had been charter challenges on freedom of expression
00:11:38.560freedom of religion worship all kinds of freedoms but never had the courts ever considered how to
00:11:46.400protect freedom of assembly so now we have a body of law that is starting to be established about
00:11:55.840the importance of peaceful assembly and how the courts need to ensure that that assembly
00:12:05.600is permitted because during covert if you without getting too deep in the weeds but
00:12:11.120what the governments and the courts were initially saying was well you know you can assemble on zoom
00:12:17.280uh and on social media um you know and that's that's good enough and uh you know and and that
00:12:26.340was one of the the strong messages in the case was no um we need to be in the public square
00:12:34.200we need to be out in the open where others can see us hear us and visualize the opposition to
00:12:43.920law and not in the zoom call just doesn't yeah all of you cretins can stay in your basement go
00:12:52.800protest in a deep dark hole somewhere that's where we want you to protest congregate in your deep
00:12:57.520dark holes yeah that's crazy so we we do have some added protections but not yeah not as much
00:13:07.920as we'd like to have and i think this is going to be just a continued there will have to be more
00:13:13.920Of these cases and more examples of Canadians willing to stand up and assert their freedom of assembly as well as freedom of speech for the courts and the politicians and the government to take notice.
00:13:32.560Yeah, and, you know, I'm not a big legal guy.
00:13:35.640I'm still trying to piece how all this stuff works.
00:13:38.100something that I found very confusing and maybe you could try to simplify it for for the layman's
00:13:43.640out there I never really understood because you know I did this documentary kind of interviewing
00:13:49.120yourself interviewing Henry Hildebrandt and and and the Henry Hildebrandt interview he's like hey
00:13:55.160look I found the Charter of Rights and Freedoms hey look I found you know the Bill of Rights
00:13:59.820and they're like no it doesn't apply during COVID and it's like how does that work where there's like
00:14:04.640laws that somehow are able to be laid upon somebody that supersedes the charter that
00:14:11.700supersedes the bill of rights like how does and then it's like oh well you know you can still do
00:14:16.620a charter challenge or is like like why do these not what how does it get trumped i guess is what
00:14:21.780i'm asking how does the charter get trumped how does the bill of rights get trumped like that
00:14:25.700So nothing trumps the charter in law other than the rules that are derived to interpret it, if that sort of makes sense.
00:14:41.260So like one of the cases, one of the key underlying elements of the Charter is that we have these freedoms of assembly, freedom of speech, freedom of expression, but they can be impugned upon, they can be infringed, but in what is demonstrably fair in a free and democratic society.
00:15:04.980so you know that's where the court comes in is what what determines what is demonstrably fair
00:15:13.800and then we have all these case laws that a demonstrably fair infringement on the charter
00:15:20.660rights yeah and that's the actual legalese that's the actual wording you know um so uh the charter
00:15:28.100allows for it. So that was a fair breaking of the rules. Yeah. It really, it really has
00:15:36.120made the charter just about empty and just about hollow. Do constitutional lawyers, because I'm
00:15:46.380guessing there was a legal president where they're like, okay, sometimes you can fairly break the
00:15:50.660charter. Like, was there a specific case that happened in Canadian history that like allowed
00:15:55.140this to start happening where okay i guess we can kind of break the rules in the charter if it's
00:15:59.660fair yeah so one of the the milestone cases in there is what's called the oaks case and and it's
00:16:08.760often referred to now as the oaks test how does the how does the court determine what is demonstrably
00:16:18.160fair was there was uh did the government do everything necessary to ameliorate the infringement
00:16:29.040did they create um uh other uh other means or mechanisms to mitigate the infringement
00:26:30.480All because, with two reasons, Justice Phillips screwed up, and then the courts, every summer, it happens every year, if you can believe it, people go on holidays, judges go on holidays, lawyers go on holidays, crown attorneys go on holidays, the court clerks and staff go on holidays, and there's not as many
00:26:57.540court dates available in the summertime so um it was delayed till september and at at the trial
00:27:05.460judge right said yeah that is not a defense delay that's a crown delay um and um but on appeal
00:27:13.080the court of appeal said no that's not a really a crown delay and it's not really a defense delay
00:27:20.280it's it's an exceptional delay um and so we'll like we move those uh four months out of the
00:27:29.120jordan time frame and uh there you are mr hillier you're yeah you're yeah when we deduct that your
00:27:37.180trial would have taken place in 28 months in so many days and you're under the jordan threshold
00:27:43.240um and so back to court you go and the jordan clock restarts at 30 months right and if i'm
00:27:50.860not mistaken this there's a legal term for this i think i believe it's uh called being dicked
00:27:56.020around is that is that is that the right term but uh no but seriously like like who are we kidding
00:28:03.160here in terms of this uh well it's it's a it's an exceptional delay has that ever even been used
00:28:09.900before oh yeah yeah they have you know the crown is listen you know the crown didn't just fall off
00:28:16.780the turnip truck they they have been very skilled and experienced at dicking people around for a long
00:28:24.220time no and you know they're um you know as much as you might dislike them in as much as we might
00:28:32.620recognize that they lack integrity um they're still integrity yeah they're still you know
00:28:41.980capable people uh so and and uh they were able to convince the um the court of appeals that yes
00:28:51.800this was an exceptional delay you know that's a it's interesting you say that that you know they
00:28:57.100are very capable people um there there also seems to be a lot of capability with certain judges and
00:29:03.940certain systems when it comes to like keeping uh violent immigrants in the country for example
00:29:10.220right like there seems to be an incredible competence uh for punishing people like yourself
00:29:16.880and then also trying to give a leg up to people like people who have been violent or been
00:29:21.960you know who uh but let's other types of people so so here i would say that listen
00:29:29.140everybody in the whether they're crown attorneys or judges they've all gone through the academic
00:29:37.060left-wing woke academic regimen for a number of years and then they've worked in the bureaucracy
00:29:47.540of the legal machine for for ages and you know most most if not many if not most judges
00:29:56.380are former crown attorneys so there's going to be some affinity some collegial uh affinity
00:30:04.920with their former colleagues um as well as they want to advance up the the you know the hierarchy
00:30:15.900of the legal system to get to a bigger more more recognizable and more wealthy throne you know to
00:30:25.340move from the courts of justice to the superior court to the appeals court to the federal court
00:30:31.960to the to the supreme court so you're going to want to make sure that the people who make the
00:30:41.040political appointments are see you as a shining example of their similar world views and when
00:30:53.600push comes to shove you know what do you think is driving this bias let's just get right down to it
00:30:59.060do you think it's financial incentives like where the financial incentives coming from
00:31:03.160who enforces it who's behind the curtain randy well it's just like if people want anybody who's
00:31:11.400ambitious wants to advance up the bureaucratic hierarchy you know the money is good um you know
00:31:18.900a justice of the peace that the low end of the scale is going to make you know 150 grand a year
00:31:24.700um um a judge on the superior court is you know on on the superior court not the supreme court
00:31:33.720is going to be making 400 grand a year uh plus the perks um you know judges as you advance up
00:31:41.180the ladder you get a lot of perks as well so um you know so there's you know if you're any what
00:31:46.660ambitious you're going to make sure that your political masters recognize the quality
00:31:58.120and the similarity of your views with your political people making the appointments
00:32:04.380so that's I think I don't think there's anything much more nefarious than that Greg it's just
00:32:12.680yeah how people naturally tend to behave yeah yeah i think that's a good sort of answer especially
00:32:22.000for people who are like it's a conspiracy it's a this it's a that and it's like well i think it's
00:32:26.360just various uh levels of incentives various sort of you know people want people want to avoid the
00:32:32.640stick they want to get go after the carrot and like you said if they're ambitious they want to
00:32:36.460move up and they you know they see this sort of uh bias that has kind of overwhelmed all of our
00:32:42.160institutions and uh you know advancing their career might be the kind of priority whereas
00:32:48.660like actually being in having integrity and you know upholding justice in canada and being
00:32:55.040honorable that's sort of like the window dressing that we put around i'll make the comparison with
00:33:00.140with the general brass in our military who are all absolutely left-wing woke
00:33:06.660tards as well um you know hey randy only only fascists want to keep tampons out of the men's
00:33:16.980bathrooms only a fascist would say something like that sir so you know like that's the way
00:33:23.480a bureaucracy operates um you know the in the old days uh we used to call it the peter principle
00:33:30.240about advancing falling upwards you know but that's um the incentives are not for people with
00:33:40.980integrity to advance and it's it's the same in politics it's the same in the military it's the
00:33:47.320same in uh in most large bureaucratic organizations i mean that's interesting because it's almost
00:33:54.500like a warped version of how loyalty is the most important thing but like the loyalty
00:34:01.860for country and nation has kind of been replaced with like loyalty to me or like whoever's in
00:34:10.020charge or like whatever the playbook is or you know does that make sense yeah yeah no i think
00:34:16.440there's you know you see that uh you know i i would i would say it's loyalty to the power
00:34:25.080that can advance your interest or that can improve your interests now you know and uh so if you're
00:34:33.460a conservative backbencher uh the power that can advance your interests are in the leader's office
00:34:40.980and in the lobbyist's office and you do the things that will make the leader's office
00:38:54.660Like, just like, but here's, as we have seen, Greg, every case in Ottawa that was found not guilty or ended up in acquittal during the freedom, from Freedom Convoy related charges have all been appealed as well.
00:39:17.720So, you know, the big names like Leach and Barber, and, you know, now they have legal representation that's paid for them.
00:44:37.320And I think C9 takes that ever closer to that marker where any and every possible criticism will be considered hateful and therefore criminal.
00:44:59.560I've been doing a lot of research on it.
00:45:02.060And my theory, my interpretation of C9 is that this is really the regime or the liberal government kind of thumping its chest to actually enforce existing laws more aggressively.
00:45:17.720You know, in The Criminal Code, 319, 319.
00:45:21.920It's been on the books for over 50 years, which is kind of wild because some of its language is like really kind of like modern day in terms of being kind of like, you know, new speaky a little bit.
00:45:34.080Um, but, uh, yeah, it's really concerning because I think, I think they're kind of just like adding a few things in there to really kind of solidify or kind of bolster existing hate speech laws that rarely get used.
00:45:51.440Um, but they're really kind of like, you know, aside from the actual legislation they want to pass, it seems to be like they're, this is really being promoted a lot in the news and like all these politicians and everything.
00:46:00.500and what i and what i think the conservative party is largely missing yes the religious
00:46:05.220exemption is egregious and very bad however they're not focusing at all on the sort of like
00:46:11.360you know potential for it to um be abused in various ways no one talks about the symbols
00:46:18.360thing very much i i only saw elizabeth may bring up the whole part on intimidation which is like
00:48:03.780You know, I think when genocide happens and war crimes happen, we should be able to express our detest and vilify those who are engaged in those activities.
00:48:17.680So, you know, it's it is really, you know, but I'll tell you this, you know, for 15 years, I sat in parliament in the interior legislature and everybody is of the belief that everybody who is enforcing these laws are people of high moral character and integrity.
00:48:40.300instead of that recognizing that there's a whole bunch of people
00:48:44.420that enforce our laws who are assholes.
00:50:28.680This is not good. I think people should be, it has passed the Commons, but there is room for people to engage with the Senate now.
00:50:39.180Um, and, and I think, you know, let's not, just because it's past the commons, it has to, um, uh, you know, focus the attention on the Senate right now, but I think people should continue to, uh, push heavily on the conservatives and on, and I think there might even be some avenue now with, with the NDP, with Avi Lewis, possibly.
00:51:05.100um um you know because he's he has some fringe views as well you know he's a
00:51:13.380jewish person who is not a zionist so he um uh he might be someone that can
00:51:23.260marshal up a few ndp people uh now as well so you know and and and even if nothing else you know
00:51:34.340at some point in time the liberals will be gone now and there should be pressure on the
00:51:43.680mps that if they ever have the opportunity that they repeal this c9 provisions
00:51:51.180yeah no absolutely i i mean i i love all you're saying i i my head's been in this all week
00:52:00.060uh over a week uh and i'm actually working on a mini doc you know 10 12 minute piece
00:52:07.300for senators to watch along with the public but really making the case of like this is what's
00:52:12.860wrong with this bill um i can go into a few arguments if you want to see to get your feedback
00:52:18.420on it sure sure um so the one thing that not that you're missing but the one the one kind of like
00:52:26.200legal technicality when it comes to vilification and detestation is, it doesn't say that you can't
00:52:33.420vilify and detest a person or an individual, but it's an identifiable, identifiable group,
00:52:41.380which is a definition, if I'm not mistaken, that's like over 50 years old. This definition
00:52:47.140of identifiable group is over 50 years old, you know, sexual identity, gender, race, religion,
00:52:54.060uh nationality also disability is in there i think but you know one of my arguments is going to be
00:53:01.040um i'm an unvaccinated i might not say it this way i might not be so personal with it talking
00:53:07.100to a senator but i'll say hey uh here's a front page of the toronto star that says i don't care
00:53:13.280if the unvaccinated die here's a clip of justin trudeau saying do we tolerate these people here's
00:53:19.460a few other examples of clearly the Canadian establishment and government detesting and
00:53:24.940vilifying unvaccinated Canadians, along with the people who are protesting for bodily autonomy,
00:53:30.760they would actually not fall under this because they're not part of an identifiable group with
00:53:36.900this definition. And then like bringing up other examples, like how much people hate Donald Trump
00:53:41.520or how often people kind of call an average conservative a fascist and be like, we are in
00:53:46.660such a polarized political world right now are you actually going to use this 50 year old definition
00:53:52.400and say that you're seriously trying to stop all hate like it's it's very laughable you guys are
00:53:57.160using an ancient definition that clearly does not apply to the modern era the very least there
00:54:02.640should be political views in there and there's actually an example of a muslim imam which many
00:54:09.120are saying this is what kind of like thrust forth this legislation the urgency around it to begin
00:54:14.580there's an imam in montreal that said something like pretty out there which is like we need
00:54:19.040god to like smite the enemies of palestine and like something something like zionists
00:54:24.940but apparently 319 was not applied against this imam because a zionist also is not part of an
00:54:34.120identifiable group it's more of a political ideology so yes but that's when you break out
00:54:40.640when you uh but then if you break that out and segment it and say it's not really uh zionist
00:54:48.300you're that's a that's a proxy it's a dog whistle for being a religious group you know and there's
00:54:55.760like don't um you know and the same and the same goes for muslims as well you know like some you
00:55:03.460You know, on the other side, somebody can make the argument that you're dog whistling and you're not really just targeting that person for their political views,
00:55:15.160but you're casting shade and aspersions and vilifying the group that he belongs with, which is a Muslim group.
00:55:25.180or or that yeah you know that the person uh you know belongs to a homosexual group or whatever it
00:55:34.220is right no i hey don't get me wrong randy i think this is all a cover if it actually is passed it's
00:55:40.780going to be used to be persecuting uh straight white christian nationalists i think those are
00:55:46.220going to be on the top of the list in terms of how they actually use it against but uh i still
00:55:50.700still think it's worth kind of giving giving them the good faith explanation of like how you know
00:55:57.460how this definition is like super do you not think that's a good argument to like say this is a really
00:56:01.320old definition that doesn't apply to the politically polarized but the other thing i would say is you
00:56:06.900know that you know no piece of legislation is fixed in time forever it always gets amended
00:56:15.940just as we amended 319 today, or this year.
00:56:20.960And they will broaden, they will open that door up as well,
00:56:31.000and a broader category of identifiable groups will be included in it,
00:56:39.280other than the white Christian nationalists
00:56:42.440are probably never going to get into that group.
00:56:44.300But everybody else, you know, so, you know, it isn't just identifiable groups.
00:56:56.960It's also, isn't there a part of it as well about the, and I forget how it's worded now,
00:57:04.880But with the messaging and products of and symbols of the symbols, yeah, yeah, known, you know, if you're on the terrorist entity list and any symbol principally associated with or like is known to resemble a symbol associated with.
00:57:32.640simply the crime is displaying if you display the symbol and i think the implications of this are
00:57:41.360totally nuts i think the most like the easiest thing to point to from probably our audience is
00:57:47.880you know let's say there's let's say there's a government protest let's say this bill's in effect
00:57:52.760c9's in effect you can criminalize symbol any symbol just is like a lightning bolt lightning
00:57:57.260rod of criminality let's say there's this really popular protest grassroots protest movement that's
00:58:02.280opposing some policy with the government and then boom somebody shows up day one with a nazi flag
00:58:08.400so does that mean the entire protest movement is now criminal just the person holding the flag is
00:58:13.440now criminal does that like characterize everybody in the crowd because that happened at the convoy
00:58:19.180when the very first day they weren't talking about the many different groups of people who
00:58:23.620were at the convoy on the news they talked about this nazi flag that showed up randomly in one
00:58:28.840tiny little corner a lot of people have a theory that it might have been planted there part of a
00:58:33.380photo op that all the media ran with but like you can already see how even having this law in the
00:58:38.820books would be a great blessing for those in power or for another political faction who wants to
00:58:45.020screw over like another political movement um yeah to kind of undermine everything open for abuse but
00:58:52.160But also, you know, just, yeah, it's also not that there was a specific logo for the Freedom Convoy.
00:59:06.220But let's just say there was a specific identifiable symbol, logo, flag for the Freedom Convoy.
01:02:26.120And a huge part of that is like you said,
01:02:28.080what is their morality do they go to church are they good people you know what what drives them
01:02:33.740to do the right thing nothing then it's like i'm gonna yeah so the other day we saw a number of
01:02:41.840conservatives hold the bible um when they voted on c9 you know and when's the last time you heard
01:02:50.200them talk about the bible right is that where you're going with that well i just thought to
01:02:55.580myself break i wonder when the last time uh any one of them uh broke the commandment of thou
01:03:04.940shalt not bear false witness or when was the last time they didn't break thou shalt not commit
01:03:12.660adultery or you know like go through the list um and have they ever upheld any of those commandments
01:03:22.360You know, and I, like, you know, I dislike when things are used as props.
01:03:32.920And I, you know, and I'm not, I don't know, you know, but I know in politics it's very seldom that you uphold the commandment not to bear false witness.
01:03:49.300so among many others so yeah yeah here here are just a few uh from proverbs lying lips are an
01:03:59.540abomination to the lord but those who act faithfully are his delight a false witness will
01:04:04.600not go unpunished and whoever pours out lies will perish i was thinking of conservative
01:04:09.860mps when reading this i'm reading proverbs right now um oh here we go this is the best one proverbs
01:04:15.54011 3 the integrity of the upright guides them but the crookedness of the treacherous
01:04:20.820treacherous destroys them yeah ah man yeah yeah so anyway you know i i do think that people
01:04:29.500you know we went off on a bit of a tangent there but i do i do think people need to
01:04:34.640vocalize and and be public and express their expectations um and um because
01:04:45.420um otherwise the mpp mps are um just go about doing what they're doing um you know we have to
01:04:55.660um that's our that's our obligation is to be critical of uh the people who represent us
01:05:03.700yeah yeah and you know it's i've been making a big effort to try to like because because i you
01:05:13.060know having lived through the convoy and like being put on a list of your bail list of people
01:05:18.120you can't talk to and you know seeing see what happened to all the convoy characters whether
01:05:23.700it's tamara litch chris barber jeremy mckenzie arthur the coots for like seeing all this like
01:05:28.400up close and personal you know i i don't want to make a sound calm argument i just want to like
01:05:36.280shout and be like it's a regime it's not a government they're corrupt they just want to
01:05:39.920throw the dissonance in jail that's all it is but you know i need to like you know calm down
01:05:43.720and breathe and be like okay like i'm not going to win that many people over by like freaking out
01:05:48.040and screaming at them i need to kind of like make a sound argument and da da da but um yeah but for
01:05:53.720people who are close to the convoy it's like we kind of already know what's up like we haven't
01:05:58.420forgotten what happened we have seen example after example of the government or regime say show me
01:06:08.300The man will show you the crime, like for you example.
01:06:11.000They're like, okay, this guy was some sort of convoy leader.
01:06:15.360He used to be a politician not long ago.
01:15:44.280Well, that's, you know, you brought that up and I, you know, that's one of my pet peeves, Greg, is, and it's mostly on the conservative side, mostly on the blue team here,
01:15:57.440that are more likely to applaud for wars in the Middle East.
01:16:08.960It's mostly on the blue team that you'll get the people liking the bombing of Iran
01:25:22.320Now, if I was a Jewish person living in downtown Toronto, I might have a different set of experiences and observations, and therefore different conclusions.
01:25:39.480But regardless, I would still not want to bomb them over in the Middle East and bring them here.
01:25:51.680So I feel like that's not a one to one comparison, though, because if you are Jewish and you're you're Randy Silverberg, like would would your home be Canada or would you see Israel as more of your home?
01:26:08.020In which case, you know what I mean? Like it kind of like that's the interesting thing about about Jewish people is like like sometimes they don't see their home like they see Israel as their homeland, even though they live in Canada or they live in America.
01:26:20.660so it is this weird sort of uh thing just to kind of you know not to get too deep into it between
01:26:28.020are they are you a zionist are you not a zionist there's a bunch of different yeah
01:26:32.420and and i'm not uh well suited to speak on on those things but i'm just um like you i think we
01:26:41.220have uh had way too much immigration um period um you know uh over a an extended period of time
01:26:53.460and that door should be closed shut completely um and and also encourage
01:27:03.860other countries not to bomb and kill and destroy other countries um and um incent people to leave
01:27:14.720yeah i it's yeah i mean it's simple i remember being really you know i i didn't want to pay
01:27:22.780attention to like whatever the jewish lobby or the israeli lobby in politics i never really paid
01:27:28.440too much attention to that but then after october 7th i was saying things like yeah can you guys
01:27:33.840guys just get along and stop killing each other and then i would kind of get construed as like
01:27:38.120being indoctrinated or like siding with the terrorists and i'm like you lost me you lost me
01:27:44.000on that one uh okay um and then and then like when you keep pressing against a person like that
01:27:51.640it becomes like you don't give a fuck about what i think is a canadian at all do you it's you you
01:27:57.640really don't give a shit you only care about your thing okay wow all right well that's out there
01:28:02.660that's good that's good information to know um so this this whole conservative principled western
01:28:08.220values that was just a skin suit and then now you're just totally tribal for your team okay