Greg Wycliffe - Residential School Hysteria Roundtable with Frances Widdowson Uvic

00:00:00.000 but yeah you may have seen all of the uh the violence last week uh francis widdowson attended

00:00:08.880 to talk about residential schools and she was arrested for trespassing um there was other

00:00:17.760 violence or assault that went on property was destroyed i believe a camera was smashed along

00:00:24.080 with a number of other things um i can hear you okay excellent so i thought we'd just get started by um

00:00:35.920 well i thought we would just chat for a little bit and then start to bring other people into

00:00:39.440 the conversation but uh maybe start us off i have to work out some tech issues on my end so maybe

00:00:45.360 just start us off by uh instead of going into what happened the day of maybe kind of since then

00:00:51.520 what's going on in kind of a summary but this has been an ongoing um trend of there being more sort

00:00:59.600 of backlash to um people who question the residential school narrative so maybe is this the next biggest

00:01:08.240 escalation where are we at on this file here and kind of what's been the response since this uvic event

00:01:14.560 so there's been two major uh upheavals one at the university of winnipeg where there is three and a

00:01:24.160 half hours of the meltdown that happened there on september 26 where um a whole bunch of gangsters were

00:01:33.680 brought by these female cry bullies and used as a way of attacking people who would try to fight back

00:01:42.320 against these women who were assaulting me and putting uh drink over my head so that was one

00:01:48.240 that's being pursued by the justice center for constitutional freedoms we're trying to get uh

00:01:54.960 we're trying to get uh freedom of information requests from the university which i believe are

00:01:59.200 due on december 22nd to see what craziness was going on behind the scenes and then um they gave me a

00:02:07.360 trespass notice at university of winnipeg which we uh just told them we were not going to leave

00:02:13.440 i got a trespass notice at thompson rivers university and we told them we were not going to leave and they

00:02:20.000 just stood back and watched while we had a great event there and talked to a whole bunch of people

00:02:25.840 and then obviously uvic was watching this and thought well we can't have this kind of discussion occur

00:02:33.040 about uh whether or not remains have been found at kamloops so they decide to bring in the police

00:02:40.080 to arrest me and that is now being contested as well by the justice center for constitutional freedoms

00:02:47.840 i am going into the university of british columbia on january 22nd to see what that university you try to

00:02:57.520 discuss whether or not the remains of 215 children have been confirmed at the kamloops indian residential

00:03:05.280 school that's fantastic uh maybe you could tell us a bit more about society society for academic freedom

00:03:18.400 and a little bit about because not many people have heard of it i don't so maybe you could tell us real

00:03:25.440 quick for those who don't know about the society for academic freedom what they do and specifically

00:03:30.720 what like you said you were uh that they're going to be like you know speaking up like are they sending

00:03:35.760 an open letter or sort of like what what sort of uh activist action does that look like from the

00:03:41.520 society for academic freedom that organization which has been developed specifically to try to protect

00:03:48.800 academic freedom in canada i'm a board member uh for that organization i believe they are going to be

00:03:55.200 sending a linear of british columbia copied to the board of directors or board of governors of the

00:04:02.640 university of victoria the president and so on but the main major player in these things that are

00:04:08.240 happening is the justice center for constitutional freedoms which is an organization that is funded by

00:04:15.680 the public it's done by donations and they pursue legal challenges

00:04:25.200 and freedom so that's what i was referring to um but they have been pursuing a number of cases on my

00:04:36.480 behalf against universities the biggest one being the university of blackbridge that's going to court

00:04:43.840 in 2026 so the argument is that by removing me from campus or trying to stop me from speaking on

00:04:51.680 university campuses this is a violation of freedom of expression um in the charter and they take cases

00:05:00.320 to court uh about this and of course it's very very expensive to try to mount a case of this kind and

00:05:09.200 takes a lot of expertise and so glenn blackett is the lawyer who's been helping me to try to hold these

00:05:17.120 universities to account all right i'm trying to switch microphone can you hear me on this microphone or no

00:05:27.920 yes i can

00:05:31.280 okay what about now

00:05:34.560 nope nope and that's super annoying okay so um well that's fantastic uh let's go over kind of what

00:05:43.280 you saw give give us a scene we saw some of the clips you showed up with um you showed up with the

00:05:51.840 um the sign that said what did it say denial or truth which was a bit on the front it says uh what

00:05:59.520 remains kathy drake who's on this call was kind enough to have these printed for me will dove was the

00:06:06.960 designer of these uh it's a sandwich board basically i call it billboards just because billboard chris

00:06:13.920 calls it billboards but it's a sandwich board it has on the front what remains and then it has the logo

00:06:21.120 of the graphic for 215 every child matters which of course is the kind of the the uh thing that's used

00:06:29.680 for the canloof city residential school claim and then on the back it says denial or truth and it has

00:06:38.320 a picture of dallas brody from 1bc who is holding up a sign saying zero bodies in front of the penticton

00:06:48.240 indian bands billboard which says 215 with two handprints and two footprints and the every child matters

00:06:57.360 um logo and this of course was was put up to the claim that 215 children the remains of 215 children

00:07:07.280 have been found at the camp senior residential school which is a completely false claim and is highly

00:07:14.400 unlikely to be true and dallas brody was holding up this sign zero bodies to draw attention to this false

00:07:22.400 claim and because of that she has been smeared as a residential school denialist which is equating her

00:07:33.280 comments

00:07:37.200 wow um you know i've noticed that with uh with this whole you know we we've seen this i i relate this

00:07:47.920 sort of you know broadly would call it like left-wing hysteria on certain topics and it's very

00:07:53.760 interesting because uh you have maybe like the transgenderism stuff where they will have a very sort of

00:08:02.160 radical moral argument uh some may call it emotional blackmail where they'll say well if you don't agree

00:08:10.480 with me francis i'm going to kill myself and a lot of different uh trans people will kill ourselves

00:08:15.680 and uh i'm i'm looking at the sort of response to you questioning this narrative and others and the

00:08:22.720 response is usually like you know it's it's a it's like well that's you know that just really hurts my

00:08:29.600 feelings and it's not to be insensitive or anything but i guess uh i don't think that this residential

00:08:35.680 school uh denialism like hysteria and like this kind of like moral condemnation and like really doesn't

00:08:41.840 pack the same punch as some of the other more established ones like for example holocaust

00:08:47.040 denialism like you will you will get very uh condemned for that but they're really trying

00:08:50.800 to build it right they're trying to build the stronger blackmail emotional blackmail argument

00:08:55.840 they're trying to build it up to try and you know vilify people like yourself for stating historical facts

00:09:02.640 um but yourself and others have been doing a lot of damage and i guess um you know what do you think

00:09:11.200 for anyone's for any naysayers for who maybe are listening in for any haters uh is there anything that

00:09:18.080 you want to kind of clarify when it comes to your stance like in a nutshell because you know some people

00:09:24.160 who are kind of maybe just driving by the stream who think you're some deplorable monster i know you have

00:09:30.080 entire lectures on it in many respects you could be considered an expert on um you know indigenous

00:09:36.640 policy did you not work for the government on indigenous policy at some point but um yeah maybe

00:09:42.240 maybe speak to that of kind of like your stance in a nutshell yeah so i would consider myself well the

00:09:49.600 main expert of course is nina green the incredible researcher who has helped a whole bunch of people

00:09:55.120 like you know me included to get the facts about this case but i would consider myself to be one of

00:10:02.800 the the main experts on the canland city residential school i've been studying aboriginal policy for 30

00:10:08.720 years i was a policy analyst with the government of the northwest territories for five where i was

00:10:14.960 involved with implementing the government's what was called the traditional knowledge policy um for that for that

00:10:21.120 government you know so um and and certainly i i think that people you know i i enter into a lot of

00:10:28.240 controversial areas so uh certainly i'm i can be wrong on a number of matters but i i don't really get a lot of

00:10:35.760 people arguing with me on my stance uh they like people like sean carlton from the university of manitoba and

00:10:44.800 negon sinclair from the university of manitoba they just say that talking to mission occur because

00:10:52.880 to do that would be like like denying gravity like like that's how that's how gone sinclair from the

00:10:59.920 university of manitoba they just say that talking to mission occur because to do that would be like

00:11:08.560 denying gravity like like that's how that's how ridiculous and off the wall my arguments are when

00:11:15.760 i'm really my main claim now which i just want to talk about constantly because i think it's very

00:11:21.040 important is whether the remains of 250 children have been found or confirmed i see this as a matter of

00:11:29.200 fact which should we need to have truth on this claim get a program on my visit to winnipeg is he confuses

00:11:43.920 the idea that children died at residential schools which everyone agrees with the children did die

00:11:52.720 at the residential school schools at kamloops we have uh well it's between 49 and 82 children deaths that

00:12:04.640 are recorded only two of them confirmed at the school and those children that those children died of one an

00:12:13.440 accidental hanging of a child playing a game called outlaw the other one was uh a girl who died when

00:12:22.000 she drowned in the thompson river uh so everyone accepts that but he brings this up as some kind of

00:12:30.000 refutation for the claim that there were 215 clandestine burials at kamloops so this is the key and

00:12:39.600 also he's now bringing up that there's some kind of historical records that show that there's 215 children

00:12:47.920 buried in the apple orchard these are two very very separate things the clandestine burial issue and

00:12:55.360 then the question of you know how many children died at the residential schools what did they die of

00:13:03.680 where are they buried and and what happens often is that you have cemeteries that exist that used to have

00:13:11.920 wooden markers marking the graves and those markers have deteriorated so now you just have basically an

00:13:20.800 unkempt uh cemetery or even a gra a field that that is not even clear it's a cemetery anymore

00:13:28.560 that that is a just no one should be surprised to find remains in a cemetery and there are some aboriginal

00:13:36.160 people who want to know exactly where their relatives are buried in forgotten cemeteries but

00:13:42.480 this is kind of the the confusion that we see with respect to this issue

00:13:57.920 yeah absolutely absolutely

00:14:03.520 so

00:14:03.760 i think uh

00:14:06.320 i think uh we should talk about people like when on one hand we have you coming onto campus

00:14:13.440 wanting to have a conversation about this and on the other hand

00:14:17.360 and we have uh someone committing violence and sort of getting away with it because they're on the

00:14:25.840 right side of the issue because they're part indigenous and because they disagree with you and their

00:14:32.640 feelings are hurt they're allowed there to just kind of righteously say yes i'm going to commit violence

00:14:38.960 because i disagree with you you could call that political violence they're being violent for

00:14:43.600 political reasons or contending historical facts and um they seem to get away with it and this and

00:14:51.120 this is a pattern i've seen on other files on other issues like the transgender file you'll see people

00:14:56.720 protesting against transgenderism in schools and they will uh get beat up by antifa and the cops will

00:15:05.200 watch it happen and then they'll sometimes end up arresting the person who got beat up

00:15:10.080 but maybe if we could just focus on this case uh i think there's a particular individual who won a juno

00:15:15.120 who is uh kind of roughing some people up and not really facing many consequences the only consequence

00:15:21.360 being what getting interviews on tv as some hero am i getting this right

00:15:30.000 who is a musician he just got arrested actually to do with some kind of protest he was involved with in a

00:15:37.520 logging dispute in british columbia anyway he uh what happened was is that drew coover was was there

00:15:47.840 and uh he threw a smoke bomb logan stacks stats at tim teelman who is legally blind and is not able to

00:15:56.960 you know defend himself so that was a an outrageous thing to happen and drew sort of said what are you

00:16:03.360 doing he kind of yelled out loud and logan stacks then came forward and smashed drew coover's uh camera

00:16:18.960 out of his hand and that led drew coover to uh grab him and and throw a punch at him and so on but then

00:16:27.840 at some point yeah no i guess it was after that so that happened then logan stats jim mcmurtry i'd given

00:16:35.920 my my my billboards to jim mcmurtry because they wouldn't allow me to take them in the police car

00:16:42.320 and jim was holding my billboards and logan stats came and grabbed my billboards and and smashed them and then

00:16:57.120 i hate to describe it it was just surreal what he was doing and then uh so the police were trying to

00:17:05.360 get my boards back and some protesters said to the police i could not believe this

00:17:11.360 where do you think you're going to the police officer and then another protester said uh don't

00:17:19.600 come any closer to the so and this is all covered uh in the footage and i'm i go like where else did the

00:17:28.640 police get told not to come near like not to try to retrieve property not to do not to do anything

00:17:36.720 about this case and i filed a report with the police his name is colwell is the guy i the police

00:17:43.440 officer and he said he basically told me that i deserve this to happen because you know if you're

00:17:49.920 going to go and you know trespass on campus you know don't ex don't ex don't be surprised when your

00:17:56.080 property gets damaged and and i was telling him about the police that they were afraid to do anything

00:18:01.600 about it because these protesters and he said to me oh we've never heard anything about the police being

00:18:08.800 feeling nervous or anything so it was almost like i was making up things or something so they're like

00:18:14.480 they're kind of gaslighting you a bit yes like i was really annoyed uh because you know first of all the

00:18:21.920 whole setup like in terms of my own my arrest uvic sent me a an email telling me that i wouldn't be

00:18:30.160 allowed to come on campus because i was doing an unsanctioned event and i'm i wasn't doing an

00:18:35.840 event oh and then they told me that they the the area that i wanted for my event had already had

00:18:43.280 been is was going to be used for another purpose and that was a whole bunch of professors organizing a

00:18:50.320 counter protest hundreds of people at the location that i said i was going to be going to be meeting

00:18:57.520 people to discuss these claims so when i got this email i thought i'm not doing an event i'm going

00:19:03.200 there to discuss this claim this this encounter this this misinformation that the university

00:19:09.840 has been perpetuating for four and a half years because they've been putting out all sorts of

00:19:14.240 things saying that the remains of 250 children haven't found um and so then when i showed up there

00:19:20.080 they gave me another notice which said that i was i was being removed because i was behaving in a manner

00:19:28.160 contrary to their expectations but they had printed this out before they arrived on campus so so they're

00:19:37.760 making this up specifically to have me removed from campus because they don't want me to be able to

00:19:45.280 counter the propaganda that they are you know basically imposing upon everyone at that institution

00:19:55.120 hold on can we go back to that you said you said uh you were behaving in a way that didn't meet their

00:20:02.480 expectations that's correct that's correct what does that even mean what do you like like why because

00:20:08.960 like like did they establish their expectations is it is it a moving set of expectations uh

00:20:16.320 because i just feel like that's such an absurd um what's the what's the word that's such an absurd

00:20:21.920 sort of um like metric or things to try to measure or to kind of dictate well you didn't reach our

00:20:27.760 expectations actually we expected you to be taller so uh we don't want you here you know how does that

00:20:33.200 even work well they didn't have some criteria that they specified which which were um you have to

00:20:42.160 you know respect the safety of others for example there's that word again so so but i the main thing

00:20:50.400 is i hadn't even even engaged in any behavior because they printed this off presumably an hour or two

00:21:00.080 before i arrived so like it was a printed off document so they decided in advance that i wouldn't

00:21:08.000 be meeting whatever expectations that they had and then we had this horrible meltdown with people

00:21:14.960 acting in all these horrible ways which were obviously not respecting the safety of others and

00:21:21.600 no one else got you know got a trespass notice so they're using these things to just remove people

00:21:30.320 who have views that they disagree with but that's basically what they're doing and that's what the

00:21:35.120 justice center is going to be pursuing with them is the the kind of um unequal application of their

00:21:44.080 the rules that they've decided they're going to put in place for these kinds of circumstances

00:21:51.760 i'm gonna try testing oh finally okay you guys can hear me okay right

00:21:56.880 okay good i was just trying to uh switch the microphone thank thank goodness um yeah absolutely

00:22:06.000 you you nailed it right there it's it's a technique to try and shut up the people that they do not like

00:22:11.280 or whose opinions they do not like and i know that no for those who don't know i am screening my

00:22:18.960 documentary next week about the state of free speech in canada there's so many threads to pull on one of

00:22:24.880 them is academic freedom it features yourself francis but it's been features jim mcmurtry you guys

00:22:30.400 have something in common because we're defining the school uh narrative uh you've been canceled in

00:22:37.520 some way it's not always direct the thing that's interesting about this kind of this cancelling stuff

00:22:41.680 for the wrong opinions like it's not always cut and dry uh in terms of like they're not going to

00:22:48.000 say well we're canceling you because we don't like your opinions it's like no no they find some other

00:22:52.960 excuse they they they use the excuse of safety or feelings and it would be kind of nice actually

00:22:59.520 to get a whole list of uh of the different kind of excuses that they like to use um because i feel

00:23:06.160 like there's kind of like a rolodex um of them

00:23:12.640 yeah i'm accumulating them as i go into these universities

00:23:17.120 every university acts well first of all they all talk to one another so that's the other thing

00:23:22.160 that seems to be apparent from and i know they have a an organization called universities canada

00:23:27.760 which is all the university presidents you know discuss matters of concern to universities

00:23:34.480 administrators and so i i think the university of victoria situation was immediately on the on the

00:23:42.080 following what happened at thompson rivers because thompson rivers they gave the trespass notice

00:23:48.000 and then they didn't do anything about it and then now it's like okay well if we don't do anything

00:23:54.000 about it then there's going to be these discussions take place which you know cause a lot of upset

00:24:03.280 for people who are faced with views that they're not used to hearing and we got to stop that

00:24:11.280 because we want to make sure that all of these you know these these groups these people belonging to

00:24:19.280 these groups that they've designated as being sort of sacred objects they shouldn't feel any discomfort

00:24:27.600 or be upset in any way you know that's kind of what what's going on and and there's a really funny episode

00:24:34.320 where a woman i think her name is angela she's a young woman she there's so they have this mic in

00:24:43.360 the in the open area in front of the mcpherson library that's been see that's why it's an event

00:24:48.480 right it's because you have a microphone and you you have organization that's an event not just coming on

00:24:54.320 campus to have a discussion um anyway they had this microphone in the middle of this this this area

00:24:59.840 and they were they stopped talking for some reason and this young woman gets up and says um

00:25:07.920 hi there i'm a young person i'm 23 how many people are this age and and uh and and everyone's kind of

00:25:14.400 listening to her and then she says you know university what why are you here do you think that universities

00:25:20.000 should be a you know a place where you have a marketplace of ideas and you see the looks

00:25:27.520 going back and forth between the organizers and right away they move and and and uh basically

00:25:35.840 take her away from the microphone it was really quite amazing you know because she they let her talk

00:25:43.840 and then when she said something about the marketplace of ideas they said oh no we don't want that here

00:25:52.480 at university of victoria we don't like that idea of uh you know having a variety of different

00:25:58.000 perspectives that we can look at so that was another very telling kind of moment to this whole fiasco

00:26:06.560 uh which the university of victoria and i should mention i have a master's degree from the university

00:26:12.240 of victoria in political science i was at the university of victoria for five years between 1987 and 1992

00:26:18.800 2022 and although it always had a little bit of crazy around the edges it operated as a great

00:26:26.160 institution at least in my experience and you would never ever be told not to discuss something

00:26:35.680 in the the program that i was in in fact you were encouraged to challenge your professors in the various

00:26:43.280 courses that i took and and to see the institution i graduated from in such an awful state is just

00:26:51.120 really depressing yeah yeah i mean we we try to make light of it and kind of laugh laugh it off because

00:27:00.720 if you're not laughing you're crying it is it's depressing and just to go back to your one point

00:27:06.000 of hey she was talking about the marketplace of ideas and they took the mic from her uh that is funny

00:27:14.800 glad i don't live in that country you know what i mean uh but uh you know if there's anything i've

00:27:20.880 learned and i don't want it to be true but we've gotten into the territory where men and women like

00:27:28.000 don't exist or it doesn't mean anything like we've eroded like objective truth and like with that it's like

00:27:33.520 there's no limit to where you could go so and i'm sure you could find examples in the past but examples

00:27:40.480 of oh being a free speech activist that is a dog whistle for being an extremist oh that's it that's

00:27:48.160 a dog whistle for being a fascist oh you're you you want to champion free speech we know what that means

00:27:54.480 you know the way in which they sort of can twist things around to try and make like very inane stances

00:28:01.360 and inane views to be extremism uh that's why it's so important to push back against this stuff

00:28:07.760 because if we don't nip it in the bud now it's only going to get worse and worse and worse and

00:28:11.280 you know people may have different opinions on this but and maybe i'm biased because i've been editing

00:28:18.640 this documentary and a lot of it is featuring convoy people from the trucker convoy but like

00:28:23.280 these people were standing up for bodily autonomy and they were called terrorists like do we remember

00:28:28.160 this or even people who were vaccinated and just wanted to stand up for the right to choose they

00:28:33.440 were called like these horrible vile terrorists so i think that like this person who got the mic

00:28:39.680 ripped from them because they believe in the marketplace of ideas i don't think that's an

00:28:43.760 exaggeration i think there's like many left-wing people who would hear a phrase marketplace of ideas

00:28:48.560 and be like i heard jordan peterson say that who is basically a nazi and and then the hysteria and

00:28:55.120 the emotions just start start rolling and start going and uh then they punch you in the face

00:29:00.960 for saying something that upsets their their their worldview or what have you i would like to get

00:29:06.320 into um a little bit more into the event and maybe kind of itemize some of the assault and abuse

00:29:14.080 but maybe just on that note widdison i don't know if you are a if you took a minor in psychology

00:29:20.400 but maybe like would you like to maybe quickly delve into the sort of uh the psychology that's at

00:29:26.960 play here when um people seem to get whipped up into this into this frenzy where you know what

00:29:34.160 maybe you could help simplify it for me or make it sound a little more um not crude but it's like they

00:29:42.560 are just get sort of caught up in their emotions and they get caught up in the ideas and the sort of um

00:29:49.200 um i'm trying to i'm trying to articulate it here but you know what i mean like what what do you think

00:29:56.800 is uh at play here at somebody who um instead of listening to you they're gonna immediately start

00:30:04.960 mocking you deriding you um vilifying you and kind of building up to let's face it committing violence

00:30:12.400 against you or wanting to just kind of like punish you for having the wrong opinion what do you think

00:30:16.160 psychologically is going on in the minds of people here when this happens well i think first of all

00:30:21.920 they're encouraged to not be intellectual at the university like i find that to be very distressing

00:30:30.720 because the universities really are are supposed to be helping people to put their emotions aside

00:30:38.400 and try to think things through and examine ideas which they they might find highly objectionable it

00:30:45.440 doesn't mean you have to accept the ideas obviously but you should at least be able to know the nature of

00:30:51.840 what these ideas are and the evidence that's being used to support those ideas so so you have the authority

00:30:58.960 figures are not doing their jobs and encouraging students to be more objective and try to you know kind of

00:31:11.600 bookmark their emotions but i think it's a highly moralistic kind of tone that is that is coming across

00:31:21.200 that you know you're dealing with they believe that they're dealing with highly immoral kinds of acts

00:31:32.720 or words that they have to counter so if they don't try to shut down what's being said

00:31:41.440 it's kind of they see it as a failing on their part and so this is kind of how this is set up and and

00:31:49.440 this this statement that words are violence you know this is the setup is that because your words that

00:31:57.200 are so upsetting like that there is no evidence of the remains of 215 children being found or there are

00:32:03.600 only two sexes that's the other one that gets everyone all upset that i'm i'm familiar with um

00:32:12.640 because you say this which is just so violent because it denies the humanity of members of these

00:32:20.240 groups they are entitled to fight back with all sorts of actual physical violence of their own and and and

00:32:30.720 i and university of winnipeg is where i saw i'm still seeing this a lot like people who haven't

00:32:36.000 seen the three and a half hours of coverage on my youtube channel about what daniel page compiled this

00:32:42.640 he compiled the entire chronology of what happened so these women uh cry bullies seven of them

00:32:52.640 surrounded me and forcibly tried to remove me from campus and to avoid that because i couldn't get

00:33:00.080 out of their circle they encircled me i just sat down on the ground and said that they were deranged

00:33:08.400 and i was just going to wait until they calmed down and before that we we proceeded with what i was going

00:33:13.600 to do um these women vivian ketchum grandma shingus and uh louise meno continue to argue that they were

00:33:26.160 entirely justified in what they were doing and aptn is giving them oxygen and saying you know oh these

00:33:36.960 women were faced with the hurt that widowson was causing them with her denialism and all this kind of

00:33:44.160 stuff so there's this encouragement for people who see themselves as part of an oppressed group

00:33:52.160 to use violence to stop people from saying things which are upsetting to them and that that does

00:34:00.000 even more of a disservice to them because they of all people need to hear the truth

00:34:06.240 and you know they might realize if they engage with people in conversation more that maybe their ideas

00:34:12.720 are a little or somewhat flawed and that maybe they should be orienting themselves to a more productive

00:34:18.160 course of action than trying to you know basically rip me to shreds if they were i guess that's coming

00:34:26.160 like like i wasn't taking it very seriously at the time but my cameraman daniel page feared for his life

00:34:32.400 that day that's how bad it was he thought he was going to get stabbed by all these gangsters so it was

00:34:37.200 very serious but i was just dealing with these ridiculous female cry bullies so i i didn't really take

00:34:44.080 it as seriously as i should have taken it this was at uvic correct no this was at university of winnipeg

00:34:50.720 uh sorry sorry that's what i meant to say yeah university of winnipeg um yeah i actually got a

00:34:55.040 chat uh someone in my chat just said my wife works at uvic she's struggling with her integrity at the moment

00:35:03.040 yeah well it's not not easy especially if you're working for one of these institutions you know what

00:35:09.600 what if you speak out you know your days are numbered like in as an as you know and this is

00:35:16.720 what i found out myself like i lost my job so i'm now on the outside pissing in instead of being in the

00:35:24.480 inside the tent pissing out i'm outside pissing in and i will piss on these people as much as i possibly

00:35:31.520 can because they are an embarrassment they are an absolute embarrassment for academic institutions

00:35:38.080 and uh you know it just it's got to stop if we're gonna have universities anymore like it cannot go

00:35:44.880 on and maybe universities are lost you know people keep on saying this to me but i've got to fight as

00:35:50.960 if i think they still uh can be saved you know and then at the very least i can document the destruction

00:35:58.080 of them for future generations yeah i think it's really important work and although it seems hopeless or

00:36:06.000 it seems very depressing i think there's a big opportunity here because as i was saying

00:36:12.960 as absurd as the kind of transgenderism truths that they try to push um and a lot of normal

00:36:20.960 people think it's totally absurd you know trying to give sex changes to children and all that sort of

00:36:25.280 thing um it has a lot of you know institutional momentum and cachet to it like there seems to be a

00:36:33.040 lot of like big players in big institutions they say that big pharma likes to support this agenda

00:36:37.680 because it helps uh give you lifetime customers who need to buy um hormones for the rest of their life

00:36:45.040 but i think there's an opportunity with this residential school one because it doesn't have the same

00:36:51.280 oomph it only has the kind of just the canadian institutions behind it and it's also relatively new

00:36:57.040 you know it hasn't been grandfathered in like other sort of uh um i guess agendas and i guess the

00:37:04.160 opportunity is to kind of expose it as this sort of uh clear political agenda because it does touch

00:37:09.840 a number of things like the sort of uh land ownership which we've seen some sort of disputes

00:37:16.800 happening uh in british columbia over that be turns out these land acknowledgements who are actually

00:37:22.320 casting a spell and giving away our property rights i'm kidding but uh maybe not francis have you seen

00:37:28.080 that that sort of case in in bc when it comes to land ownership uh i don't know if i've ever heard

00:37:33.040 your opinion on that what's your take on that yeah so it's directly related uh the kamloops case which

00:37:39.760 happened in may 2021 when it was declared that the remains of 215 children have been found people

00:37:46.800 before that date because there was this kind of idea that canada canada is a genocidal country that

00:37:52.800 idea was being floated and the truth and reconciliation commission never used the word genocide it used the

00:37:58.880 word cultural genocide and everyone at that time was saying well okay well we'll use those words because

00:38:05.280 you know cultural genocide is not genocide in like actual genocide it's another kind of thing and then

00:38:12.240 when the kamloops case came they just took away the word cultural and now it was everyone would accept

00:38:18.000 that it was actual genocide and then this claim that it was actual genocide was used to push through a

00:38:25.840 whole bunch of different initiatives like lots of legal cases started to to unfold uh and most importantly

00:38:33.440 the united nations declaration on the rights of indigenous people peoples was pushed through the

00:38:38.560 federal parliament in june of 2021 and of course undrip as it's called has massive property implications

00:38:50.560 because it's not talking about treaties anymore it's talking about traditional territories of aboriginal

00:38:57.760 groups which is much larger than the treaty area and things like there should be free prior and informed

00:39:04.720 consent about any development that has that happens on any area of the traditional territory you know so

00:39:15.360 it's dramatically expanding aboriginal control over land and while this originally was just concerning

00:39:23.680 crown lands which was bad enough so publicly owned lands owned by the crown which is the highest authority

00:39:30.080 either in british columbia or in canada um this is still bad because you have like things like royalties

00:39:38.480 for resources which now aboriginal groups are demanding access to and what that does is that those royalties

00:39:47.920 traditionally have gone into the the kind of revenue base of the government and and they're used to

00:39:54.080 provide services to provide services to citizens that's now going to be diminished by aboriginal groups raking

00:40:01.200 off a portion of that and if you think that what they rake off is going to go to help the marginalized

00:40:07.680 aboriginal people you've got another thing coming because that's not how tribal politics works so

00:40:15.280 there's all sorts of initiatives that are being justified by this kamloops claim and it's going to be an

00:40:21.760 absolute disaster especially in british columbia because they've made uh undrip into provincial law

00:40:29.120 whereas no other province has done that but still uh it's a general softening up making people feel

00:40:36.480 guilty so that they don't resist the you know siphoning off of billions of dollars for various nonsensical

00:40:47.760 types of policies every year yeah yeah well i would like to get some other people up there so if you

00:40:55.200 see people who are there at uvic or who have actually experienced some of these situations on the ground

00:41:00.800 then then definitely call them out francis um i was going to say the uh you know with with this issue it's

00:41:09.360 it's it is really sad um i'm not someone who's an expert on this topic but just based on my sort of like

00:41:16.160 intuition and seeing how politics works in canada uh the phrase i say is like the indigenous in canada

00:41:25.040 or the first nations or you know this group is kind of like the original political football of canada

00:41:32.560 like they always got to get batted around and used by the political class to push their own agenda and i

00:41:38.160 feel like they almost never benefit as a group as a whole it's only these sort of chieftains who have

00:41:45.600 the names or who have like the certain rights or the certain benefits um and uh well yeah it's super

00:41:53.680 sad because i see these certain people who get kind of spots on tv or who get featured um you know as

00:41:59.600 part of the narrative to kind of push it and they're being used they're being used to push this agenda it's

00:42:06.240 not necessarily going to benefit them and their people but you know they're getting the attention

00:42:10.560 cbc is listening to them aptn is listening to them but really to what end you know like it's kind of

00:42:17.520 maybe this is kind of a cheap thing to mention but it's like you know do we do do all the indigenous

00:42:22.800 reserves have clean drinking water yet no let's focus on uh bullying francis widowson off of campus

00:42:28.560 because she said some words that make us feel bad um would you agree with that kind of like football

00:42:34.160 analogy like they're like the original political football of canadian politics and they seem to

00:42:38.720 love to be used by those in power but do they as a whole ever benefit no in fact it's getting worse

00:42:46.240 like the whole tribal politics uh type of developments that are occurring that's essentially

00:42:52.800 what's happening is that there was uh you know many decades ago when it sort of the the position of

00:42:59.920 the political position position that you know aboriginal people should become canadian citizens

00:43:04.720 just like everyone else and assistance should be given to those who were marginalized and struggling

00:43:10.400 so that they could become equal citizens with everyone else and then the chiefs in the late 1960s

00:43:17.920 with the white paper didn't want that because that was going to get rid of all the privileges that

00:43:23.040 these chiefs got from having these special aboriginal designations so they fought hard against

00:43:29.760 it and because the government didn't really want to battle against the aboriginal leadership they they

00:43:35.520 basically sort of argued that you know we would like to have aboriginal leaders agree with whatever is

00:43:42.400 going to be proposed and then that went that emerged so that there was this now a new kind of way of

00:43:49.920 seeing things which was what alan cairns is a political scientist who i knew quite well

00:43:54.640 called parallelism which is that this should be a nation to nation relationship between aboriginal

00:44:00.240 groups and uh canadian society or the canadian nation and it was sort of seemed like the relationship

00:44:06.960 between quebec and english canada but but quebec has millions of people has institutions has an

00:44:14.400 economic base is able to become a state if it chooses to become a state and that's not the

00:44:19.680 case with aboriginal groups which are small unproductive and not very well they're organized

00:44:25.760 they're not very sophisticated in terms of their organization so they don't have the institutions

00:44:30.320 that would be able to run like a complex system and so what happens is that you have this leadership

00:44:35.440 is basically just using this to get more and more money diverted to itself instead of having the

00:44:40.960 government provide the programs that are necessary in aboriginal communities and what that does is because

00:44:47.120 it is run according to tribal politics is that all the the powerful families just take that money and

00:44:55.360 distribute it amongst the their friends and relatives and leave the marginalized aboriginal people

00:45:00.960 without any power and ability to be represented within those systems so we i believe it's british

00:45:08.080 british columbia we've seen a decline in life expectancy of by five years in british columbia so this is

00:45:17.040 billions of billions of dollars are going in to solve these problems they're getting diverted

00:45:20.640 to the aboriginal industry which is the lawyers and the consultants that work for aboriginal groups as

00:45:25.520 well as the leadership and then the marginalized members are getting more and more social problems

00:45:30.800 worse and worse living conditions and now their life expectancy is is five years lower than it was

00:45:37.200 previously so it is an absolute disaster but because you can't criticize any of this uh because you get

00:45:43.680 accused of being a colonialist or a racist etc uh yeah everyone just is very reluctant to start to argue

00:45:51.520 about you know argue that this is not a viable way to go forward we can't keep on doing this forever

00:45:59.040 and those communities those isolated aboriginal communities are not places which allow people to thrive

00:46:07.440 i i had an interview with a an aboriginal uh personal aboriginal man he's a very well-educated guy he was

00:46:14.480 trying to help the communities run their political systems in a more rational way and uh he they were so

00:46:21.600 corrupt uh he couldn't do that and and you know he was saying that you know it's just incredibly ugly

00:46:28.800 the the living conditions it's just this horrible places that that exist and what to do about it is a

00:46:35.440 very complex uh kind of question but recognize that it's not going to be beneficial to aboriginal

00:46:42.240 children to grow up in those isolated and socially dysfunctional areas with fetal alcohol syndrome

00:46:52.080 rates of who knows uh you know between 25 and 40 of the population something like that because if you're

00:47:00.320 going to be miserable living in those communities what are you going to do well you're obviously

00:47:04.880 going to try to escape and uh the aboriginal women in those communities the escape is alcohol

00:47:10.880 and that of course results in fetal alcohol syndrome oh boy i'm looking through some of your twitter and

00:47:17.440 just to kind of co-sign what you were saying uh this is from june 20 uh just from june this year

00:47:23.680 follow the money 50 million for quote language programs this initiative of the aboriginal industry needs to

00:47:29.680 be investigated and disrobed this money should be spent on trying to solve aboriginal dependency

00:47:34.480 most notably the fetal alcohol syndrome problem uh i'm sure there's many such examples uh and i'm also

00:47:42.560 i just i i searched your twitter for the word industry because i know you talk about the aboriginal industry

00:47:49.360 um and you wrote a book in 2007.

00:47:51.680 um would how many chapters would be added to this uh book if you were to write it in 2025 and what would

00:48:00.480 the chapters be called uh well certainly under uh the international dimension the residential schools

00:48:11.280 it would be a major part so i i albert howard and i actually it was co-author with albert howard

00:48:16.480 who i met in the northwest territories uh we we we we spent a few pages on the residential schools

00:48:24.400 in 2008 and this of course is a much larger kind of area now but but the the same structure is is

00:48:31.760 applicable because we were looking at policy areas things like education things like uh health care

00:48:39.600 justice you know self-government land claims all these all these things so that that's still it just

00:48:47.520 needs to be updated in terms of you know the the and it's huge it's it's it's grown the the aboriginal

00:48:54.560 industry has grown in immense proportions if you track the funding the increases of funding because

00:49:02.160 that's how the government is trying to deal with this problem is it just increases the money that goes into

00:49:08.720 aboriginal communities and that of course makes things worse it doesn't solve the problems it

00:49:14.160 gives more money to the leadership which then uses the money that it has to oppress all the other

00:49:20.640 members of the community and do ridiculous things like the language programs like this is what people

00:49:26.480 need to understand too so aboriginal languages are pre-literate languages they're languages that had not

00:49:32.320 yet developed writing so they don't have the complexity to be able to function in a highly developed modern

00:49:40.640 society and what you have is a bunch of linguists who work for the aboriginal industry who get money

00:49:46.560 from government to develop these what's called orthographies which are writing systems for these

00:49:53.280 languages and when you see all these words with like the low the the upside down ease and the all these

00:50:00.640 symbols that you don't know how to pronounce that's got nothing to do with aboriginal people it's got to

00:50:07.840 do with a bunch of non-aboriginal linguists who created this this kind of phonetic like it's called a

00:50:16.320 international it's derived from the international phonetic alphabet but they have other variations on it

00:50:21.280 which linguists use to have the actual sounds represented but aboriginal people can't read those that script

00:50:28.560 either no one can read that and that that the government is spending millions of dollars every year and paying some

00:50:35.760 non-aboriginal people to develop these writing systems it's just absurd the whole thing is just ridiculous

00:50:42.320 that is totally insane uh i think you mentioned that to me before but i forgot about it

00:50:47.920 uh i'm just gonna read this tweet from also from june 2025 aboriginal cultures in canada were pre-literate

00:50:54.560 they had not yet developed routing systems if governments decide decide to phone it

00:51:01.120 phone it is eyes aboriginal names on street signs why isn't the roman alphabet being used so that

00:51:06.480 everyone both aboriginal non-aboriginal can read them um and the answer is because it's like it's like

00:51:13.840 the perfect woke thing where it's like wow look how culturally different and interesting and sort of

00:51:18.720 um a little bit irritating this is don't you like this irritating thing don't like accept it don't

00:51:25.600 you love it um but yeah that is uh hilarious that would be a good it's one of the more bizarre

00:51:33.120 of the uh of the initiatives and you know like you know someone like sean carlton who i won't use the

00:51:40.080 nickname that i used to have for him um he gets a t-shirt with all sorts of these words this this script on it

00:51:46.720 right because he's an ally and he's a white savior and he's going to help all these uh aboriginal

00:51:53.120 people when what he's doing is just virtue signaling to everyone else um you know and taking money away

00:52:00.960 from what's needed which is you know you need to have a like a very seriously well thought out

00:52:06.800 educational program here for aboriginal marginalized aboriginal people you need to have interventions to

00:52:12.400 deal with the fetal alcohol syndrome problem you need all these like what's sean carlton doing about

00:52:16.960 that you know like it's ridiculous i mean there there is a i don't know if it's like irony or

00:52:24.160 if it's appropriate but how isn't it funny that the only people who can read these so-called indigenous

00:52:30.720 signs are like these privileged white liberals who major in anthropology or have a phd in orthography

00:52:38.400 they're the only people who can uh actually read this stuff uh and the actual indigenous are like huh

00:52:44.400 okay is this for me um i i want to talk about the documentary if i'm not mistaken you made a

00:52:52.320 documentary and you're in the process of of producing a second one uh i'm curious how much

00:53:02.160 the your aboriginal industry book disrobing the aboriginal industry

00:53:05.920 does a lot of that come up in these documentaries yes it does so simon hair got uh who is a

00:53:16.240 videographic genius he we produced uh the he was a journalist for global news for 10 years

00:53:25.840 and got fired for his stance on the i guess it was the trucker convey voice so you know he's been

00:53:32.240 persecuted terribly persecuted and uh you know but he's he's got incredible talent and so we worked

00:53:40.640 together on what remains which was a a documentary about pell river so this directly had stuff to do

00:53:46.800 with this language problem like that the the orthographies and so on because that's what they're trying

00:53:51.760 to do on pell river is change all the the names and put them in the script that no one can read

00:53:56.640 um and so the aboriginal industry looms large and in these kinds of initiatives and then the current

00:54:04.560 one that we're working on which we've been working on i guess for the last six months or so and and all

00:54:11.120 these universities are part of this this this this documentary what's going on because we're we're

00:54:16.640 talking about um the massive institutional failure which has allowed this falsehood about the the 215

00:54:25.840 remains to be perpetuated so so why is it that this has continued for four and a half years i i

00:54:32.800 understand why it happened originally because people didn't understand gpr and they just thought that

00:54:37.760 that meant that bodies have been found but we've known now for over three years that that was just a

00:54:42.720 big mistake so then why do you have things like university of victoria constantly perpetuating this

00:54:49.680 falsehood you know this kind of thing so we're investigating all these institutions the media

00:54:54.880 the universities the rcmp the police forces um and uh all the all the institutions that have been

00:55:04.720 involved in doing this so um and and for people just to make a plug for our our work we we are fundraising

00:55:12.960 for this document if people want to see more work like the things that we're doing that that simon is

00:55:18.160 producing um there's a link to my fundraiser our fundraiser on uh my twitter account so it you know

00:55:27.120 because we we really are reliant on the public to help us to to be able to produce the things that

00:55:32.400 we're doing and i think if people watch what remains they'll see the high quality uh of work that simon

00:55:39.520 does with respect to the videographer radiography anyway the aboriginal industry uh which is is is

00:55:47.440 kind of behind one of the major explanations which is you know there's a lot of money to be made

00:55:55.520 from a lot of different sources with respect to whatever type of aboriginal policy initiative you're

00:56:01.840 going to look at and the unmarked graves claim is no different so kamloops indian band got 12.1 million

00:56:09.440 dollars to excavate in 2021 where did that money go it went to publicists and consultants that's where

00:56:20.160 that went it didn't go to excavations which it was supposed to go to it went into the hands of 25

00:56:25.520 consultants and so you see this whenever any initiative happens there there's all these

00:56:32.320 professionals that are you know drawing up various proposals and documents and so on to be able to

00:56:39.120 lobby for more money and and so that's there's that's no different and you'll see that with with any

00:56:44.720 any kind of aboriginal policy initiative great i just shared the uh the link to uh to the fundraiser

00:56:52.000 there for uncovering the grave error cam loops and i got a lot of sympathy for that my documentary is

00:56:58.400 also grassroots funded um not being funded by russia contrary to what some believe uh but i saw uh

00:57:08.640 drew cuver join the twitter space so if you want to request to join sir i kind of do want to hear your

00:57:14.400 story because i i think you got a nice camera smashed at uvic which um i mean i would not be

00:57:21.760 laughing i would be pissed um let's see here let's see if we can get you in here

00:57:29.360 but yeah drew cuver if you want to request to join we can would love to hear your story on uh

00:57:36.960 yeah what what happened to you down there and um

00:57:43.280 um but yeah i was going to suggest as well francis maybe it's already in the works maybe you know

00:57:53.200 here's another idea for a documentary there's no end of those in canada but um doing doing an actual

00:58:00.480 documentary on the disrobing the uh aboriginal industry or indigenous industry and kind of just

00:58:06.800 doing a deep dive on that uh yeah or at least like yeah i was just gonna say in the 1bc like they're

00:58:14.320 looking at what they call the reconciliation industry which is you know like the industry

00:58:18.480 that like that's a that's a branch of the of the aboriginal industry so truth and reconciliation the

00:58:26.320 stuff that just came in in 2016. but um the next project so we because of our entrance into

00:58:33.040 universities our next project is going to be um looking at the breakdown of universities generally

00:58:42.400 uh because we've been in now i've been to around eight universities and i've been you know kind of

00:58:47.200 documenting what's happened in each one and uh funnily um w brett wilson offered to pay uvic a hundred

00:58:57.200 thousand dollars to get if uvic would apologize to me for how they treated me and so i said hey brett

00:59:06.000 wilson why don't you give uh simon hair gotten me uh the hundred thousand they're never they're never

00:59:11.360 going to apologize obviously so why don't you give the hundred thousand dollars to simon and me so we

00:59:16.880 can do an expose a massive expose on not only uvic but you know all the universities in british

00:59:24.880 columbia which seem to be in serious trouble uh which we're going to find out ubc we're going into

00:59:29.600 ubc on january 22nd to see how ubc is going to react to discussing just having a discussion not an

00:59:38.720 event it's not an event we're going to go and and just see what students and faculty and uh and staff

00:59:46.160 think about this claim uh what remain like this question what remains and it's amusing because at ubc

00:59:52.960 they have the ubc first house of learning our first nations house of learning which is headed

00:59:59.840 by a woman by the name of joely vivaros who is an amazing cry bully a cry bully of all cry bullies

01:00:10.400 who goes on these completely unhinged episodes on social media and i really would like joely to come out

01:00:20.160 and have some discussions with us get it off her chest tell us you know everything that's on our

01:00:27.200 mind so that we can investigate these questions with her

01:00:32.960 yeah yeah i'm i'm a big believer uh in that uh and i mean that as in

01:00:40.640 we need to fund independent media in this country to to tell the stories you know we need to win hearts

01:00:45.760 and minds and you know if you are an investor or you're someone who wants to kind of turn this

01:00:49.760 country around um yeah you need to you need to find people who are going to tell the story get the

01:00:56.640 get the get that out there it's um i i just personally think when it comes to actually like

01:01:03.040 shifting the culture shifting perspectives changing hearts and minds it really comes down to a

01:01:08.000 good documentary a good you know piece of video content it's it's really one of the best things to

01:01:13.120 actually because just think about when when it gets shared you know like when a good video gets

01:01:17.520 shared it educates it entertains uh i think that's so critically important if we actually want to

01:01:23.840 you know turn this turn like get get out of this this insane sort of place we're at where it feels like

01:01:31.440 where it feels like free speech is hanging by a thread um you know we need to fight back with with

01:01:37.920 storytelling because when you think about it that's kind of how we got into the situation

01:01:41.120 it was billions of dollars of propaganda pushing the different uh initiatives um and we need to

01:01:52.320 start pushing back by and here's the best part the truth is on our side when it comes to um

01:01:59.600 when it comes to what we're dealing with here uh but we gotta fight back now people like i was

01:02:06.080 arrested at university victoria like that was this to be honest it was a surprise i didn't think they

01:02:10.880 were gonna do that because i thought if they do that i will the gloves are seriously gonna come

01:02:19.120 off here i i like if they i i will not i will just be relentless in my criticism of them whereas

01:02:27.280 thompson rivers which you know is a bit of a joke of an institution it at least stood back and let us

01:02:35.120 you know discuss things so it's like you know hats off to you thompson rivers you know you're only in

01:02:41.280 the hall of shame uh you are not in the elite hall of shame which uvic has now ascended to along with

01:02:49.360 the university of university of winnipeg which you know was just an absolute meltdown and embarrassment

01:02:55.760 on all sorts of levels so you know we are not yet being disappeared that's not happening but that's not

01:03:03.600 that far off and people have to realize that like wake up and do something before it's all gone and

01:03:11.200 once it's gone it's going to be almost you know there's going to have to be a war uh to be able to get

01:03:17.200 it back yeah well a war fought with words peacefully of course if you're listening it will not be once

01:03:26.800 you have all your institutional mechanisms gone it there's no there's no option and and that's what

01:03:34.640 discussion prevents like discussion allows people to work out their differences peacefully and what's

01:03:43.120 happening is by shutting down the discussion you're gonna see increasing amounts of violence but that's

01:03:50.240 what's going to happen it and and it doesn't have to happen the universities are behaving in an

01:03:56.560 absolutely deplorable fashion they could become involved and say hey we're intellectual spaces

01:04:05.040 these ideas might be controversial but we're gonna tell all these rabble rousers enough enough already

01:04:14.080 you know if you act in a way that's violent or tries to use the heckler's veto to shut people down and

01:04:20.400 stop them from speaking you will be expelled you are violating the code of conduct which is allowing people

01:04:28.320 to have these discussions but they never do that they just enable and pander and coddle that's all they do and

01:04:37.440 that makes things a lot worse um in all my episodes that i've been involved in before i got arrested

01:04:44.960 um i i took on the persona of super nanny which is this character in the uk her name is joe frost

01:04:52.400 she's dealing with these toddlers having temper tantrums all the time and what she does is she says

01:04:57.600 you never let the toddler get away with the temper tantrum you just keep on carrying through with what

01:05:03.440 you want to do be very patient keep on explaining what you're trying to do and eventually the toddlers will

01:05:11.120 get tired and they'll allow you to have the discussions and that's what's happened every

01:05:16.560 single time even at the university of winnipeg which was an absolutely crazed environment we just

01:05:22.880 outlasted them and eventually did this the spectrum street epistemology session after three hours of

01:05:28.880 having abuse screamed in my face and having a can of pop dropped you know dumped on my head and

01:05:36.080 and daniel being you know fearing for his life and all these kinds of horrible things but eventually

01:05:40.960 everyone calmed down and we were able to have that discussion yeah just gotta wait till they get all

01:05:47.600 tuckered out yes you know get them get all their energy out give them give them a juice box they're there

01:05:53.840 they're there um i gotta ask have you yet watched uh making a killing me yeah have you yeah i was at the

01:06:04.400 panel i was on the panel i was watching it i was watching the premiere in victoria oh my gosh silly

01:06:10.560 yeah i was on a panel with uh dallas brody tim teelman drea drea humphrey and jim mcmurtry

01:06:17.840 uh we all talked about the the uh the documentary nice i i haven't had time because i'm i'm working

01:06:25.440 on my own documentary at the moment but uh tell me what did you think it's excellent it's excellent um

01:06:31.920 it goes into a lot of very important detail about you know the gpr like not so much the gpr sorry but um

01:06:41.120 you know sort of all the all the details of the the announcement that happened and like the

01:06:45.440 presentations it talks to uh a number of aboriginal people who are arguing that you know the whole

01:06:52.640 corrupt nature of governance um there there's there's a number of important people who are

01:06:59.680 interviewed about it and it's it it really provides a very comprehensive you know background on on what's

01:07:08.800 happened with respect to the deception nice nice yeah i mean i'm really liking what one bc is doing

01:07:18.000 in terms of just disrupting the status quo you know like they're what they're only a handful of of uh

01:07:24.240 members in in the provincial parliament there but uh they're making a lot of noise they're doing all

01:07:29.600 the things to disrupt the conversation like hey we're gonna bring in billboard chris hey we're gonna

01:07:34.400 screen this documentary in the actual uh uh government building um yeah i thought that was gonna get

01:07:43.120 canceled for sure like i was saying you know there's a 90 chance this is gonna get canceled because i just

01:07:50.800 couldn't see how they were gonna allow that to happen the clamp down that's going on so so that was

01:07:56.960 amazing um you know they are you know speak you know not acting like politicians who hold their finger

01:08:05.680 up to the wind to find out which way the wind is blowing and then get on board with whatever that is

01:08:11.600 that's not leadership leadership is explaining what direction you think should be taken and trying to

01:08:19.920 convince people as to why they should follow that direction so it's it's really um a breath of fresh air

01:08:26.960 um to see this kind of political activity you know i disagree politically with 1bc i'm a i'm an old

01:08:34.160 lefty um but that doesn't mean i can't agree with their courageous stance on especially the aboriginal

01:08:41.440 policy direction and the kamloops case which you know the the absolute cowardice uh mendacity and cowardice

01:08:50.160 mendacity is just constant lying that goes on uh for in in the service of your own interests and

01:08:57.440 cowardice is just people who are afraid of what's going to happen if they say things those two problems

01:09:03.520 in all of these institutions are really preventing us from you know developing better ways to figure out

01:09:11.680 what to do to solve all these serious problems that we're facing yeah and they and they say cowardice

01:09:17.280 is uh is contagious but so is courage so is courage and i want to go to drew cuver in just a second here

01:09:23.600 but uh i think there's actually something that right-wing people can learn from you you know because

01:09:29.440 uh i talked to i'm not going to say who but at one point i'll say it was someone who was part of

01:09:35.120 the documentary and i was talking about you francis and they said you know she's a socialist right

01:09:42.240 but uh george orwell was a socialist don't no one should forget that if you're a fan of george

01:09:49.280 orwell which i am a i'm a huge fan he was a socialist so you know we got the economic issues

01:09:55.360 that we got to sort through but free speech is the most important value of all the values because it

01:10:01.840 allows us to have the discussions to determine whether you know is capitalism the best kind of

01:10:07.360 system or is a socialist kind of system the better system like those are the kinds of conversations

01:10:12.640 that we need to have but we're so distracted now and all the you know combating the totalitarianism and

01:10:19.360 you know the the identity politics that's going on all over the place which which really doesn't

01:10:24.560 have anything to do with the economic issues that people like george orwell were concerned about

01:10:30.320 yeah yeah and i was gonna you know uh commend you because i've seen you speak before i've seen how

01:10:37.520 you get excited to go into these situations to be like you know what i'm gonna i'm gonna be there i'm

01:10:42.000 gonna cause a disruption because i know i'm right and i don't care the consequences because i know i'm

01:10:48.720 right and i'm not gonna back down and i'll i'll look at like the conservative party and it's like you have

01:10:55.040 more balls than the average conservative politician in this country so you know i wish more right-wing

01:11:00.480 people would take a page out of your book and just have that sort of you know lioness energy of just

01:11:05.600 kind of hey this is what i believe and let's see the consequences i don't really care though because

01:11:11.600 i'm gonna stand my ground um let's get uh let's get drew coover up here uh can you uh unmute your

01:11:21.360 microphone sir good um good dinner time oh oh sorry you're eating i no no i'm not eating i'm i'm

01:11:30.320 preparing i've been cooking for two hours i'm making homemade venison perfect sauce for my spaghetti

01:11:36.160 spaghetti it was amazing amazing drew i wanted to hear about your experience at uvic because uh

01:11:45.280 it sounds which part the part where the crazy the part where the crazy lady the next morning was

01:11:51.600 screaming telling everyone that she's a crazy fat pregnant lady smoking crack that i videoed

01:11:57.040 for the time i was assaulted by uh crazy navajo mohawk boy that's got no balls um or the awesome

01:12:07.440 unbelievable time when i had an opportunity to sit beside uh billboard chris and hang out with him

01:12:12.720 for a couple of hours and watch a unbelievable probably one of the best fucking i'm gonna cry one

01:12:18.720 of the best documentaries that i've seen and uh it was so inspiring it was so uh it was troubling for

01:12:28.320 me because i i i think i know some things but um the the movie it definitely put a uh interest and a

01:12:36.880 lit a spark underneath my butt uh to make me uh dissect more things out there and not listen to so many

01:12:45.440 different narratives and and try to find the people like francis uh try to hear voices like jim and

01:12:52.560 try to stand beside uh people like dallas because these are the people that are um unfortunately and

01:13:00.160 i say this unlikely like unfortunately are going to be the ones that have to uh take us to this place

01:13:06.160 where we once were like what's up it doesn't make any sense like they're amazing people but we've gone

01:13:12.160 so fucking ass backwards you know it's taking a little how tall i was bugging francis she's like

01:13:19.280 i can stand and have my arm out 90 degrees and she's underneath my arm she's so short but her her

01:13:26.400 spirit is so um when she speaks like i i've been told that i walk into rooms and i can control a lot

01:13:34.240 of things and i've you know i've had a lot of opportunities in my life probably because of the

01:13:37.920 way i speak and how i handle myself but for such a a small little lady to just come into a room and

01:13:45.120 light it up with a vengeance a vengeful you know script of words and they're not even uh angry

01:13:53.760 words the way she expresses herself um she's so strong it's amazing but yeah the experience it vick

01:14:00.080 um yeah i didn't know what i was getting myself into let's just do like this real simple like you know

01:14:05.040 leading into it uh beginning middle end uh obviously something happened in the middle and

01:14:10.560 kind of the aftermath as well yeah so i i didn't i'll give you like a five minute blah blah blah so

01:14:16.320 i really again right i going there um my head was still trembling from the information that i was

01:14:25.120 sequestered to uh the night before and just being with all those amazing people so i was i was kind of

01:14:31.760 hesitant but i i wanted to go i wanted to be there especially for francis because she doesn't have

01:14:38.000 security and i've been i've done a lot of personal security work in my my world in my life and um i

01:14:44.800 had watched what happened to her in winnipeg and i knew she because i had spoken to her she didn't have

01:14:49.840 um i don't she didn't have people like me around her so i went there i sit beside her and and you know

01:14:55.200 listening to her um speak to the police they actually passed me first and went back to her and

01:15:01.600 i thought to myself i'm gonna have to interject and and i didn't there was like four police around her

01:15:08.160 trying to express to her that she wasn't welcome um she's not allowed to have an event and um that she

01:15:15.520 she has to leave and her response pretty much was a three-part there's no event i'm just coming here to

01:15:22.960 maybe talk to some kids about some things and um i'm not leaving you can't make me leave and when

01:15:29.200 they they expressed to her that you know they didn't want her there then the uh was it the director of

01:15:37.200 security the lady oh boy she got some words coming out of my face towards her um came and gave her a

01:15:43.520 document i've read the document with uh with francis now um basically it's a stupid letter um it doesn't

01:15:50.480 mean anything um even the day before i mean when she got an email saying she wasn't allowed there

01:15:55.840 she wasn't she wasn't welcome there i mean there was wasn't a trespass letter in order legally to

01:16:01.040 trespass someone from your property um they have to show up to your property they have to cause a

01:16:05.360 disturbance and then you can ask them to leave if they don't leave then you can call the police

01:16:09.680 so when we showed up and there was already eight police there that was already they're all already

01:16:14.720 in the wrong so she handled herself with absolute grace and she's just like arrest me and they're

01:16:21.680 like well we're just gonna walk you off the property and i actually yelled out no man i think she wants

01:16:28.240 to get arrested like i mean i seriously i i heard her say that so i was just trying to uh you know set

01:16:35.520 her position through my voice too and they walked her off you know and they walked her you know maybe it

01:16:41.920 was about uh two and a half three football fields to a parking lot and um they didn't turn her around

01:16:47.760 to go back to the parking lot we came from which was about 200 yards behind us they actually walked

01:16:53.360 us about 300 yards in the opposite direction of course and of course and they pulled it and they

01:16:59.760 pulled a cop car up there was no cop cars and when they put her in that car

01:17:05.520 i turned around and uh tim was beside me and jim was you know jim was i think he grabbed her her

01:17:11.280 sign because she didn't take it into the car um i think that's when my head spun out of control

01:17:20.080 and i started getting extremely angry i told the police officer i said you better like off because

01:17:26.160 i'm gonna i'm gonna throw one of you guys so far you don't even know how far i'm gonna throw you

01:17:30.560 i was so pissed off and i had to collect my thoughts and you know and then they pulled francis away and

01:17:36.960 tim was beside me about 10 feet to the to my left to my right sorry and i backed up with him because i

01:17:42.800 i knew then it was just getting it was getting hostile by then because this group is this when

01:17:49.360 the smoke bomb is this when the smoke yeah yeah yeah yeah so when when we showed up there was a big

01:17:54.800 group of you know aptn says there was like a thousand people there was about 250 people

01:18:00.320 um but they had came around the other side of the building to where we were walking to the parking lot

01:18:05.360 so as soon as francis left all of a sudden this mob of like 200 people showed up so i'm standing

01:18:11.440 beside tim and i can see this dude standing there and he had like land back he had like a jean jacket

01:18:17.840 with all these he wannabe hell's angel biker dude tough guy i mean he's just standing there in a big

01:18:22.800 mask you know the only thing you can see is his eyes kind of muslimed out as a dude it looked pretty

01:18:28.560 seriously funked um and i i turned to look at tim and all of a sudden i can hear this clunk clunk and

01:18:35.840 a bang and it went right by my feet with tim and i looked back and i could see his hand uh pulling

01:18:42.320 back after you throw a baseball or something that was pulling back so i knew it was him

01:18:46.640 i immediately was like okay i'm gonna take my tripod with my thousand my my dji osmo pocket three that's

01:18:54.160 fucked um and i'm just gonna point it at him and i started walking towards him i should probably

01:18:59.840 you know at the end of the day i probably shouldn't have but i honestly felt like i wanted to knock him

01:19:05.120 out um he just came towards me and i came towards him and i'm like oh there's

01:19:11.040 gonna be a standoff and i was looking at him because he's he's about two or three inches shorter

01:19:16.960 than me but he had a couple of sweaters on underneath his uh his wannabe tough guy house

01:19:22.640 angels jacket and he just reached out with his right hand grabbed my camera off my tripod and

01:19:29.040 just whipped it about i don't know like 10 15 feet and it skipped across the ground and that's when i

01:19:35.920 lost my shit i swung a right cross now if you look in the video and i've slowed it down quite a lot

01:19:42.160 because i've got my lawyers on it now i actually didn't make contact with the guy i touched him

01:19:46.960 but i i didn't like actually punch through if anybody knows what boxing is punch through you

01:19:51.680 don't punch the person you punch behind him um i didn't hit him and then i went to kick him and i

01:19:57.200 i pulled back that too and i'm just like this there's too many cops and the last time i was in court 23

01:20:03.280 years ago the cop said if you're in here again you're gone for two years minus a day that always hits

01:20:08.640 me i just grabbed the and i put a lock bar on his jacket so he couldn't like i basically you grab

01:20:16.000 it you twist it one way and twist it back and that way the the jacket either the clothing becomes loose

01:20:21.920 on the person and you have a better grip when he realized he was in he started smashing at me

01:20:29.920 i yelled at the cop because there was cops over there as soon as they turned and as soon as i got

01:20:35.520 eye contact with the red-headed cop as soon as i looked at him and he looked at me i just let go

01:20:40.640 and backed off this was the craziest part now this was the craziest part of that whole week for me

01:20:46.960 this part right here the cops separated him from me they didn't have to separate me from him because

01:20:52.800 i'm i'm i know what i'm doing i just took one step back and stood there stood my ground but they had

01:20:59.120 to take him and push him in between two cars and then i'm thought okay i'm gonna go over there after

01:21:04.000 like 15 seconds i'm gonna go and see what's happening so i walked over i'm listening and

01:21:09.040 the police officers there i mean they're talking to him and the the uh supervisor not the security

01:21:14.720 director but the supervisor for security was behind the cop and you can hear it all please don't do that

01:21:21.600 again don't throw that thing again don't throw those things again and i'm like are you gonna arrest

01:21:29.680 this guy and the cop looked at me and shook his head then the director security director came

01:21:36.640 towards me he's walking towards me i'm gonna punch this guy out i'm like that guy just assaulted me

01:21:42.240 he threw smoke bombs at a blind guy and you're not going to arrest him and and and he just looked at me

01:21:47.760 and shook his head like no no and i'm just like this is i'm going to get tim and i'm

01:21:53.120 going to get out of here because uh so i'm going to level someone so i walked back to tim and as i

01:21:58.800 was walking back you can hear this by my head and uh he threw another smoke bomb he threw another one

01:22:07.520 so does anybody know the legality of the legality of the smoke bomb that's interesting

01:22:12.560 yeah there's there's no rules i mean you can you can have them but i think i don't think you can use

01:22:18.240 them as a it's almost like a terrorist my lawyer said what he did was break some laws but the

01:22:24.240 reality is we're not going to go after him there we're going to go after him for your camera and for

01:22:29.040 your personal safety and we're going to go after him so he won't be allowed to show up at any more

01:22:34.240 events where you're at so okay how is the camera all the cameras you know it it works it works it's made

01:22:43.040 in china right it works but it doesn't um it doesn't turn it's bro it's yeah i gotta get i i

01:22:49.360 ordered a new one yesterday morning um because i need one for uh friday so hold on it works but

01:22:56.800 you're ordering a new one yeah but it the camera works and it records but it's a dj osmos you can

01:23:03.600 like basically hold it and touch the screen so it captures your head and put it on a tripod and walk

01:23:08.800 it i'll walk around it completely in a 360 and it will follow your face so that doesn't work anymore

01:23:15.280 so that part broke yeah yeah and those and those aren't cheap are they i just uh yeah it's like yeah

01:23:22.800 it's like 800 bucks 860 bucks taxing dude that's uh that's property damage to say the least it's it's

01:23:31.520 it's the price to pay it's the price to pay and i you know i i don't have a lot of money i you know

01:23:37.840 some people may think i make money or do things but i i i do okay but like that's a lot of money

01:23:44.800 to just throw out like but the reality is um i'll get the money back from him because i do own a couple

01:23:51.280 of businesses and i will put the cameras underneath one of the businesses so when i do charge him and

01:23:57.520 sue him for that property damage and if the judge says yes then i'll just put them on collections i'll

01:24:02.800 just pay for i mean it's gonna cost me it's probably gonna cost me about four thousand dollars to get

01:24:07.840 thousand dollars back but i don't care it's principal i don't care well yeah yeah and thanks so much for

01:24:14.640 for sharing your story uh drew coover and like i bring up the bring that up to emphasize that it

01:24:20.960 you know your property was damaged because you know if the tables were turned i could totally see the

01:24:27.840 scenario of oh my gosh can you believe this uh you know these these far-right fascists came in and

01:24:34.880 smashed our camera it's eight hundred dollars and oh my god like they cause property damage it's it's

01:24:41.440 in the sort of be in jail well right i would have been in jail i would have been in jail and i would have

01:24:48.800 already been served with some sort of legal document from the if it was that the aboriginal people like

01:24:55.840 i would have probably had some document from some lawyer of some you know we're going after you for

01:25:01.600 action you know because they've got lawyers behind lawyers behind lawyers right and drew you seem like

01:25:06.880 a really passionate guy facts you got to keep your cool in these situations i know it's hard but i'm uh

01:25:13.280 i'm a crisis and trauma and i'm a negotiator right um are you because yeah i'm telling your story you're

01:25:20.880 talking about you're talking about beating somebody up every five seconds you're like i'm about to

01:25:25.040 beat the guy up i was gonna throw him 10 feet i'm actually licensed yeah you know i'm licensed i but

01:25:31.120 you know i actually own a business i teach police officers verbal judo um verbal judo just basically

01:25:37.200 means how to de-escalate hostile situations so basically just let people like few but like the

01:25:44.480 reality is you know you know land the plane here or whatever or whatever i have a sister that's like

01:25:50.000 uh she's 14 months younger than me and she's she's got an iq of 67 so i've always been the protector

01:25:56.000 in the family i've got six brothers and sisters you know i worked and i ran group homes for you know

01:26:01.360 over two decades in the province of bc i've always been that guy that helps people and takes care of

01:26:07.920 people but i've also you know played a little bit of professional football as russian so i don't take no

01:26:13.920 shit and when someone's going to harass or intimidate someone that's smaller than you

01:26:19.280 i and they can't defend themselves i will step in and if it means i got to get charged or i got to

01:26:25.120 get lawyers it's whatever when you throw a smoke bomb like friends when you throw a smoke bomb

01:26:31.760 at a blind man that tim tilst he's got five to ten percent vision in one eye and he's completely blind in

01:26:37.920 the other like like i'm sorry bro i'm knocking you out and then and i legally have a license i can

01:26:46.960 hold you restrain you handcuff you and tell the police come i'm legally allowed to do that

01:26:51.760 i won't get in trouble i do have the credentials um is that part of the verbal judo i'm gonna knock you

01:26:58.000 out how is he to de-escalate no bro that's the prince georgian in me ah i got it i grew up in

01:27:04.960 prince george bro i just don't take no shit bro well hey and i we uh we appreciate you uh sharing

01:27:10.880 your story and uh that's that's uh total nonsense i wanted to go back to to francis to compare these

01:27:17.360 this scenario with drew to uh to others because it really is treacherous out there guys you know it

01:27:23.200 sucks um i'll just bring up one example that always sticks out to me when it comes to this

01:27:27.920 double standard uh there was a protest billboard chris was there was you know protesting transgenderism

01:27:34.000 schools there was a march that was going to happen antifa blocked it fred hahn was there who was like

01:27:39.680 the president or was the president of the teachers union and um you know i there's so many clips or

01:27:47.600 there's at least two clips of uh antifa like roughing up the protesters who are opposing uh or

01:27:55.200 challenging the sort of gender ideology in schools uh getting roughed up by antifa and then

01:28:01.120 the right-wing people are getting thrown in the paddy wagon and like not really following up at all with

01:28:07.040 the violent antifa members who are swiping and attacking the others and in one case it was a nick

01:28:13.200 alexander uh josh alexander's brother who has like a bloody eye he's coming out of this like after

01:28:18.240 getting mobbed in this this crowd of antifa people he has a bloody eye he's the one getting uh you know

01:28:23.600 taken away in the paddy wagon of course i don't think he's getting charged but the point is is like

01:28:28.720 it is very treacherous it is lopsided justice is lopsided for people like us who oppose the state

01:28:36.160 narrative and i'm curious francis um if you have any other examples of that recently in winnipeg where

01:28:43.360 someone did not fight back but did sort of like get punished for simply trying to defend themselves

01:28:49.040 or kind of just reacting to these situations um in winnipeg um yeah we got trespassing so that was

01:28:58.240 the weird thing about winnipeg so um winnipeg i had i had a faculty member who had actually suggested

01:29:07.920 that i come to the university of winnipeg so and i hadn't really intended to go to the university

01:29:12.240 winnipeg because i was going to be doing the university of manitoba for a couple of days and

01:29:16.400 i thought yeah i'll go to the university of winnipeg as well why not i'll do the two universities

01:29:22.880 and uh he his mother was sick or something so he wasn't able to show up or maybe he just felt that

01:29:29.280 that wasn't going to be a good idea so he wasn't there um but he read to me in the morning

01:29:34.560 uh an email from the provost who had said that i would not be blocked from coming on campus and

01:29:43.840 that security would protect everyone's safety including my safety that that's what the provost

01:29:50.480 had sent to all the faculty members so i had this read out to me in the morning so i knew that was the

01:29:56.480 situation and so when we got there there's all this there's this woman melissa robinson who's

01:30:02.000 telling me she she works for the assembly of manitoba chiefs she's telling me you you can't

01:30:07.360 be here you've got to leave and so on and i'm going well who are you what what authority do you

01:30:12.240 have to be telling me this is like she wouldn't tell me who she was so it's like oh forget that

01:30:16.160 i'm going in so we walked in and so the security uh they kind of stood back and watched and

01:30:23.360 were just hopeless and did nothing and the police were called by six different people

01:30:28.080 the police never came it was a really really dangerous situation and then about an hour into

01:30:33.360 this the um the security gave me a trespass notice for holding an unauthorized event

01:30:43.600 so that's so i'm going but i have authorization from the provost to be that i'm allowed to be here

01:30:49.120 and he denied it he said no that's not true and i'm going it is true i have i i've heard this email

01:30:56.480 hold on hold on so the so the provost gave you authority and then the campus police said no you

01:31:01.440 don't have authority yeah they said there's a trespass notice so so anyway so but then at the end of it

01:31:08.080 of all this mayhem violence everything that was going on the uh security guy comes over and gives the

01:31:17.200 six people who were supporting me trespass notice barring them from campus for five years

01:31:27.920 and i'm going you're serious you're giving them trust like we just had these gangsters

01:31:33.680 you know roughing up daniel page to the point where he feared for his life and spitting on people and

01:31:39.440 and grabbing michael melonson by his by the neck and those people those gangsters that was all fine

01:31:47.680 everything that those gangsters did so like that was a big mystery and then of course none of those

01:31:53.600 people have been charged yet despite all the the footage we have we have complete footage of all the

01:31:59.280 violence and all the assaults that took place and no one's been charged yet

01:32:04.560 it's insane i know and i like that one's really bad like like you vic with what happened with drew

01:32:13.040 like like you know like this is now it gets a bit when everyone gets it gets a bit hot under the

01:32:18.240 collar you know people do stuff and it's like okay who's it you know it's a bit of a gray area

01:32:23.920 that's what they're going to be seeing at like the cop telling me that you know no one's going to

01:32:28.880 pursue my you know logan stats for you know smashing my billboards because what do you expect

01:32:35.840 you know here you are trespassing and you know if you're going to be in a protest you know expect to

01:32:40.480 get your property smashed you know this kind of stuff but but with the winnipeg situation it was so

01:32:46.400 one-sided like no everyone who was um supporting me kept their cool incredibly like no one escalated

01:32:56.960 anything everyone just was very calm and if anyone had lifted a hand at any time there would have been

01:33:04.400 just been unbelievable violence because there was you know michael melanson who's a tough guy

01:33:10.400 you know he's kind of like drew he's he's gonna handle himself um he's been in a lot of you know

01:33:15.360 bar room spats and stuff he uh said at one point he thought he's gonna have to fight his way out of 40

01:33:21.440 people because there was like all these gangsters and they were threatening him they were seriously

01:33:25.840 threatening him but no one did anything about that at all like it was just it was unbelievable so i

01:33:31.840 i'm still sort of shaking my head about the the absurd double standard that existed at the university

01:33:37.360 of winnipeg yeah of course i mean you have violent gangsters who are welcomed back and the people who

01:33:44.240 are just literally trying to have conversations yeah the other thing too i should mention is these women

01:33:50.560 these horrible cry bullies um one of them who calls herself grandma shingus she was after she assaulted

01:33:59.600 me she's one of the seven uh the the sacred circle of seven assailants as i call them um she uh was

01:34:08.080 invited by the police to give a talk at their sacred fire ceremony on truth and reconciliation day

01:34:14.560 oh my gosh i'm noticing a pattern and they're all like rubbing shoulders with the police these these

01:34:22.000 assailants like it's just absurd right um this is a sip this is a separate file but i saw this recently

01:34:30.720 and i feel like not enough people are talking about it independent journalist um mocha bezargon he does a lot

01:34:36.640 of reporting on the like this the seek uh extremism and calistani stuff and there was a calistani referendum

01:34:44.800 in ottawa and he was interviewing uh shoot i don't know his name i haven't memorized his name

01:34:50.640 but um the interview gets interrupted by the police who start to enter uh start to shake the hand of the

01:34:56.160 seat guy this seat guy went to jail for seven years because he was uh you know charged with terrorism

01:35:02.720 and the cop there are the cops just like shaking their hands like this is a guy connected to the

01:35:06.640 you know the air india bombing or at least like that was partially the reason of why he was put

01:35:11.760 in jail for seven years but there are the ottawa police just shaking this guy's hand like hey can't

01:35:16.000 wait to hey love to see i love to see it and it's just kind of like what's what's going on here this

01:35:20.640 guy you know this guy went to jail for poor terrorism at the time but um hey he's got a turban on so he's

01:35:28.400 part of the state ideology narrative of of always being accepting to every foreign group anyway i'm

01:35:35.840 getting off topic here but part of that is and that was what was happening in winnipeg is that

01:35:41.200 the police are really afraid to to enforce the law because these gangsters like they they don't want

01:35:48.480 to upset the gangsters because you know now they're gonna have to you know so they kind of tried to stay

01:35:53.840 out of it and uh i'm sure they justified their actions by saying you know that we you know we were

01:36:01.200 saying hurtful things what do you expect you say hurtful things to these gangsters and you know

01:36:07.360 you're gonna get them riled up and they're you know like that's just don't say the hurtful things

01:36:13.440 and that that's really it in a nutshell isn't it yeah don't say the hurtful things

01:36:19.840 and uh greg greg i've got on video i've done a lot of the palestinian stuff every saturday in

01:36:25.840 vancouver for about 11 months and um i also interviewed the brother of the guy that was

01:36:34.400 murdered in surrey the sikh guy a part of all the calistani thing i have i have video footage of

01:36:41.040 police officers they didn't know i had my camera on telling me that they're there to protect

01:36:46.480 the people that are campaigning or protesting and they're there to protect them from people

01:36:57.360 that are not sending that narrative out of canadian values i actually got like four of it

01:37:04.480 i mean who knows what the actual pep talk is from the police chief i would love to be a fly on the wall

01:37:10.720 for that conversation listen guys it's really i'll get there it's really get really bad public relations

01:37:16.160 if you don't uh side with the palestinian people okay so you know if they're kind of violent or acting

01:37:21.520 rowdy just kind of turn a blind eye you don't want to be in the cbc throw everyone's afraid right

01:37:26.880 afraid of hurting the feelings um i did share the video of you uh oh my gosh getting pop poured on you

01:37:36.720 this is man what a scene what a scene i know that was just to read that and actually that was great

01:37:41.840 because the aboriginal people's television network they're trying to do this takedown of me as this

01:37:47.520 this hurtful person and they showed the best footage of this like i hadn't seen any of those

01:37:52.960 shots before because i had my my smart well daniel had been pushed off campus my videographer daniel

01:37:59.040 page had been pushed so he couldn't film anything that was going on and then i just had my smartphone on

01:38:04.560 my chest put you know filming from my my perspective so i had no kind of bird's eye view of everything

01:38:11.680 that was going on and this aptn uh guy uh chris reed whoever's cameraman was they took all that

01:38:18.560 footage and that was the first time i seen the the swarming that happened with these seven women

01:38:24.160 and then them pouring pop all over my head uh when i was sitting there like they just unbelievable stuff

01:38:32.160 that you know like and and and the most maddening thing is well they're never gonna well they're

01:38:38.240 told by all their allies that oh you poor thing you were you know like they're like they they see

01:38:43.840 that they've done nothing wrong like it's just like they they they're opposing a denialist and uh

01:38:49.840 that's the that's they did the right thing and they're they're activists they're fighting for

01:38:54.880 whatever they think they're fighting for which i don't even you know they think they say it's truth

01:38:59.120 they're fighting for true hidden greg if i can say one last thing before i sure take off here um

01:39:05.520 listen friends i i posted on uh december 8th a video these these people actually like

01:39:12.400 prayed with cameras at these protests and i actually have logan stats here the guy that assaulted me

01:39:18.320 uh the guy that threw bombs at uh tealman going after an rcmp at the fairy creek blockade with a tomahawk

01:39:26.640 he actually went after a cop he actually hit a cop with a tomahawk it's all there it's all evidence

01:39:33.280 it's on the video it's right there i just dm'd you and he got away scott free i'm guessing

01:39:38.800 he's been charged a lot from uh i've seen his i've seen his thingamajigger i told my lawyer i said pull

01:39:44.720 up his his sheet he's been charged a lot but no convictions okay yeah no that's that's wild i i did

01:39:52.000 actually see that i was scrolling through your uh your twitter and saw the guy the tomahawk and the

01:39:56.400 screenshots so thank you for just insane that's what i mean people like if you're listening when

01:40:00.560 you go around these protests and stuff just be diligent right be careful what you say how you react

01:40:07.760 just make sure you've got your camera and you know things are recorded because all of this stuff it's

01:40:13.280 going to come to fruition we are going to turn the curve as francis says the world will get better but

01:40:20.480 unfortunately it's probably going to get a little bit more worse god bless well said thank you drew

01:40:26.080 thanks for joining us uh i'm gonna start to wrap it up quickly i do have a couple more questions for

01:40:31.120 you francis but uh you know that that is good advice in these situations your camera is your best

01:40:38.320 defense so make sure it's recording and you do it to protect yourself um yeah it's because it might be

01:40:47.920 evidence in the future and uh it's important or also just kind of documenting the insanity of what

01:40:53.920 we're dealing with i wanted to ask two questions first um you have been getting some coverage in aptn

01:41:02.880 and what is the most absurd thing that you've seen surprising thing because like you know you've

01:41:11.120 i'm sure you've seen how this channel how this platform operates uh is it like did they reach new lows

01:41:16.400 new absurdities is it about the same or uh you know tell us of like what your reaction is to this i'm

01:41:22.080 sure you're really well aware of this organization having been into indigenous issues for years so

01:41:29.040 yeah well the violence at the university of winnipeg like i was because michael melanson who's

01:41:34.720 part of my research group really thoughtful guy and is aware of the terrible kind of gang problem in

01:41:42.880 winnipeg and he was telling me you know this is gonna be deep that you don't know what you're

01:41:50.240 doing here and i'm going ah you know it'll be a bit tense you know but you know i was at vagina i was

01:41:56.480 i went into the university of vagina and they told me about the gangs in vagina and there was no problem

01:42:00.800 it was all very theatrical and it was a whole nother level it was it was very uh it was it was not

01:42:08.400 theatrical at all in winnipeg it was um it could have got really really violent uh and and the

01:42:16.800 police didn't come like that was the other surprising thing which we're still we're still

01:42:20.560 trying to get disclosure from the university and uh the police and the big question is

01:42:29.680 did the university of winnipeg pull the police and the university of winnipeg claims that it did but

01:42:36.640 i find that very hard to believe that the police would not come when the university of winnipeg called

01:42:42.960 them so uh and the president of the university of winnipeg just got fired about a month ago

01:42:50.960 so i don't know if it had anything to do with the meltdown that happened at the university of winnipeg

01:42:55.840 and so on so so the university of winnipeg i i'm still kind of shaken actually to be honest

01:43:02.080 um looking at all the footage and going you know and and and of course poor daniel page who's the

01:43:08.640 nicest guy completely wouldn't hurt a fly and he he got really badly manhandled uh in this situation

01:43:16.960 so that still makes me really angry thinking about what he went through on that day uh which was just

01:43:23.600 terrible yeah and you know i don't want to be boohoo victim but like this stuff is pretty traumatizing

01:43:30.880 um and i'm sure or at least not to get too personal or in you know into this but

01:43:39.440 i i i still have you know when i ran for the the people's party in 2019 it was very not popular

01:43:45.760 i had like the entire communist party protesting me at debates i had you know volunteers have stuff

01:43:52.080 thrown at them and all sorts of stuff and it was only until like months after the election campaign

01:43:57.200 because i was like you know campaign go go go it was only until like months after that that i was

01:44:01.840 like man that was that really messed me up like that actually uh that was actually really rattled me

01:44:07.920 at the time i just didn't have the time to like really process it of how kind of wild it was because

01:44:13.600 there is something and i'd like to get your kind of uh i don't know your your perspective on this but

01:44:19.920 there is something that really messes up your nervous system let's say when a total stranger

01:44:30.800 you don't know them they hear the wrong thing about your opinion or political views and they are like

01:44:38.800 just physically viscerally hostile towards you immediately like you are a a dangerous enemy to them

01:44:44.720 you know it's uh it's it's quite the experience like when a stranger is like oh you have these

01:44:50.480 views like you're my enemy and it's like it's very uncomfortable it's very uh it's very wild how

01:44:56.480 would you describe this uh this uh phenomena yeah it it's interesting because i'm used i've done it for so

01:45:04.080 long that it's not no big deal greg it's just water off a duck's back i'm used to these people on the one

01:45:13.840 hand it's sort of like that uh but on the other it's kind of you can sort of like you almost have a

01:45:21.600 a wine a high-pitched wine in your head all the time like it it starts to become really hard to

01:45:27.920 concentrate on other things you know like you feel your whole life beginning to be swept up in this kind

01:45:35.360 of battle where you can't really focus on anything else you you sort of have this high-pitched

01:45:43.120 kind of energy all the time thinking about things wondering what's going on like you lay in bed at

01:45:48.960 night like with your whole all these images and everything and and i and you probably notice this

01:45:54.800 yourself too because of course i was an academic for for decades where i i spent all my time

01:46:01.840 you know reading books and writing and and so on and now i'm dealing with the video stuff all the time

01:46:08.960 with the with the footage and the clipping things and doing editing and stuff so it it like it fills

01:46:15.600 your brain with images all the time so it's it's kind of got this very weird kind of altered state i

01:46:23.280 guess almost so i'm kind of a bit disturbed to be honest about my you know the changes that i see

01:46:29.760 happening in the in the way i'm i'm kind of living in the world you know and i i'm thinking to myself i i

01:46:35.840 really would like to at some point get back to writing my books and things like that right like

01:46:41.520 this would be good to do but i i just could not do that right now like i i just don't have enough

01:46:48.640 you know some quiet time in my head to to sort of think about things very much like everything

01:46:54.560 is just kind of got this very immediate highly visually charged kind of way that's sort of taking over

01:47:02.880 most of my the way i'm kind of experiencing things so i find this a bit a little bit disconcerting

01:47:09.680 part of that francis is being addicted to social media you're doom scrolling you got to stop doom

01:47:14.080 scrolling yeah that's probably it too uh i'm kidding but um you know there is some truth to that um

01:47:23.200 but yeah i know uh to speak to that it's for me when i first started to you know i was a little

01:47:29.040 interested in politics i thought okay maybe i could try to you know promote these ideas and be

01:47:32.960 a candidate but seeing the effect of propaganda on people like up from like up close and personal

01:47:40.960 you know and i'm a younger kind of guy or you say at least i used to be and i thought man like this is

01:47:46.720 an existential problem like what if this gets worse and worse and i mean that isn't just kind of like

01:47:52.880 the hysteria of people who will have these ideas in their head thinking i'm evil and i i'm really

01:47:59.520 confident that that's not the case but it's it was a very popular thing like you know like a whole room

01:48:04.480 hundreds of people think i'm a demon and it's like how am i gonna go back to my day job and like not be

01:48:11.120 concerned about this you know this is a like where what's our country gonna look like if this continues

01:48:17.600 um and of course sometimes when you're armed with the information and the facts you know to the

01:48:23.680 cam loops example you know you're right or at least that you have a good point but it's it's like it's

01:48:29.120 almost like it's so lonely and you're like you know it's like i i'm i'm here knowing that this is correct

01:48:37.040 but it seems like the whole world disagrees with me and uh the whole world's gone mad but uh i did want

01:48:43.920 to ask one more kind of positive question at the end and then um and i think we might wrap it up there

01:48:49.840 but um they say you have to force a tyrant to act like one and the sort of colloquial term they use on

01:48:57.600 the right wing is getting red-pilled but red-pilled would be like um kind of a summary of you see

01:49:05.360 some harsh truths about the world are revealed to you for example

01:49:09.760 some people might uh trust the mainstream media completely with everything that they say

01:49:15.520 but then maybe they were at this event or they saw this event or they know someone involved in the

01:49:19.920 event and they're like wow like the mainstream story totally didn't match up to uh what i saw

01:49:26.080 um so and i think this is a positive for when you do things like this slowly but surely

01:49:30.400 francis when you do these demonstrations there'll be one student maybe a handful of students maybe a few

01:49:35.040 people online whatever but they will get red-pilled in some sense and be like wow like this is a

01:49:40.640 problem um or have you noticed anything like positive stories like that recently where there's

01:49:48.000 maybe there's been an academic who reached out to you privately and was like wow like

01:49:52.320 keep on doing what you're doing because uh you know things need to change around here

01:49:56.560 yeah i i i actually um i i feel like i have a lot of support even at mount roy university

01:50:05.280 you know i have 10 very strong colleagues who have supported me you know since i got when

01:50:11.840 since i was fired so i i didn't really have the same experience as a lot of people do when you're

01:50:16.640 you're kind of ostracized and you know kicked off the island kind of thing um

01:50:22.080 but what one thing i think is is is my approach which i i just i i really am not trying to win

01:50:30.240 the art arguments that i'm having with people and i just want to try to understand more why they

01:50:37.120 believe the things that they do and i am going to keep calm under any kind of conditions of people

01:50:45.360 screaming at me and doing these kinds of things which i don't think a lot of people can can do like

01:50:51.440 i i kind of i'm noticing that like even someone who i i really like a lot someone like jim mcmurtry

01:50:57.760 um i don't know sure if jim's on the call or not um but you know but jim gets kind of excited

01:51:04.240 and i'm going and and it's not a bad thing because like when i was at thompson rivers

01:51:09.600 um we all had our different styles and jim was really engaging with people he was kind of doing the

01:51:14.960 street preacher kind of approach and everyone was like kind of you know really engaged and so on but

01:51:22.000 i was kind of watching this going oh my god like this is this is way too excited at a high level of

01:51:27.120 excitement here which is going to get everyone all kind of riled up um and so i think um when people

01:51:34.880 watch what i'm doing especially with the street epistemology i don't see how anyone can watch that

01:51:42.800 and think i'm doing something inappropriate like except for if they just think an aboriginal person

01:51:50.880 should never be argued with ever or something like that like i i really don't know like like that kind

01:51:57.360 of attitude which you're never gonna you're never gonna get anywhere with that sort of position but

01:52:02.160 you know i i don't think i've really done a lot of you know with these my videos i some i some

01:52:08.000 my sense of humor gets me in trouble sometimes because i i just cannot take all the cry bullying

01:52:14.800 you know like all these cry bullies like they're doing all these horrible things and then they're oh

01:52:19.920 poor me oh poor me and it's i i just you know i i kind of make fun of them and stuff a lot of the time

01:52:25.440 and then that then everyone tells me i'm unprofessional and i'm not i'm not i don't i don't seem very

01:52:30.320 professorial but it's you know like you need to have a bit of a sense of humor otherwise it's just

01:52:35.040 going to be you know really depressing uh but i think that's what's doing it is people who watch

01:52:42.320 me in these crowds and dealing with all these cry bullies you know i think they've got to realize

01:52:48.640 that i'm not you know i i don't really have any ill intent with what i'm doing like i don't i don't see

01:52:54.480 why people i understand they've got a preconceived notion that i'm i'm this kind of monster but it

01:53:01.120 was kind of funny in winnipeg is this woman saying what did she say she said you're a bully and a monster

01:53:09.840 after i've been surrounded and screamed at and had just abuse like hurled at me for an hour when i'm

01:53:17.120 trying to calmly discuss you know whether there's 215 the remains of 215 children so you know that's

01:53:25.120 the unusual kind of type you know i think that most people when they're watching it they're gonna go

01:53:30.320 wow you know things are a little bit unhinged here and you know i think and i'm seeing that a lot of

01:53:35.600 people are saying that you know i get i get nasty messages too but you know i like i don't see it

01:53:41.360 necessarily see it as a bad thing like people calling people names it's better than getting

01:53:47.760 violent like like people shouldn't be wanting to tone police people all the time and wanting them to

01:53:54.640 be like it's better that if someone's angry and wants to scream at people well they scream at people

01:54:01.760 and you know it doesn't hurt me like learn to deal with people just being mad you know like there's no

01:54:09.440 big deal like i that's that's kind of my attitude so i think that people watching what's going on

01:54:14.720 this is having an effect and uh and to be honest in the last few months things have changed a lot

01:54:23.520 like like i sense people are paying attention now much more than they were you know four or five months

01:54:31.200 ago so it's all good i i'm feeling uh although i wouldn't say optimistic um you know i'm i'm feeling

01:54:37.200 relatively you know with the exception of just being like kind of constantly preoccupied with

01:54:43.040 all these things that are happening i i think that there's a lot more it seems to be a lot there

01:54:47.760 seems to be an opening for more discussion yeah yeah very well said very well said and

01:54:55.440 absolutely i mean you're i remember when you were uh you know i i recorded an interview with you uh

01:55:04.080 almost around a year ago and uh recorded your your lecture at brock about the residential schools

01:55:12.320 the grave error and uh i was telling people about you i'm like oh francis you know she's she's outspoken

01:55:18.160 on the residential school thing and people are like yeah whatever okay francis okay i don't know her

01:55:22.160 but now it's like everyone's wants to talk to francis she's causing these big

01:55:26.800 storms these riots of orange shirts on university campuses everywhere and and like you said it's

01:55:32.080 getting a lot of attention it's getting a lot of attention and uh when people are you know oh it's

01:55:39.520 hopeless here there's so much control about speech and it's hopeless it's gonna be ugly to solve this

01:55:47.520 problem because it's going to be upsetting people let's get that's part of the solution

01:55:53.040 like there's no there's no getting through this without upsetting people and getting called names

01:55:59.920 and it's not a bit like like sticks and stones will break my bones but names will never hurt me

01:56:04.720 like that's the that's the mentality like whatever i said as i say to people you can call me whatever

01:56:11.040 you want it doesn't bother me go ahead get it off your system maybe you'll you'll be a a more relaxed

01:56:17.840 person this evening when you're dealing with your kids after you've yelled and screamed and told me

01:56:22.080 how much you hate me and i don't care whether you hate me or not because i'm not doing anything

01:56:27.120 to make you hate me you're hating me because of something else that's going on in your head and

01:56:32.080 i have no responsibility for that the other thing it's just if i could just say something that is

01:56:36.480 that's helped me a lot in thinking these things through is um people really want to see a result

01:56:44.400 of things too much you have to you have to focus on the process keep on just plugging along right just

01:56:53.440 you're confident in what you're doing you're saying the things that you think should be said

01:56:58.720 it might not have an effect today or next week or next year but it's it's doing that that's important

01:57:06.080 you should take pride in the fact that you're just doing that and don't expect any payback for it

01:57:12.800 because if you want to get some kind of result you'll get frustrated you know like that that's

01:57:18.800 kind of and and if you can just kind of take you know have a feel that you've you've done some things

01:57:25.120 just by you know engaging in this conversation where you just ask some people some questions and

01:57:30.880 and you know you had an interesting discussion like i was on a call a couple nights ago with

01:57:37.520 todd mcdougall winnipeg in independent media uh anyway he ended up five aboriginal people on the call

01:57:44.560 with uh jim mcmurtry and me which was unprecedented like nice and it was it was a triumph by happening

01:57:56.880 like that's what i'm telling people but i had people watching it who were saying to me i just

01:58:01.520 could not watch that that just drove me crazy and it's like well it's like well you know it's rome

01:58:08.640 wasn't built in the day and the the best thing was that we had these aboriginal people who agreed to

01:58:13.360 come on this program and tell us what they thought and we were able to understand what they were what

01:58:20.480 they were going through more i didn't agree with them and i i did find the interaction was not

01:58:26.640 at a particularly high quality level but but still it was uh it was it was it was a great thing that

01:58:34.480 that happened you know like like you know take your take confidence and and get some kind of feedback

01:58:41.520 just in doing things and don't expect you know something to have this massive change because it's

01:58:46.560 not it's gonna it's gonna be a lot of slogging in order to get things done you can't get any kind

01:58:51.440 of improvement happening i think that's super wise i think that applies to a lot of things in life

01:58:57.200 uh you know you're not going to get results right away anything worthwhile is going to take a lot of

01:59:00.960 work and you're not going to get any praise for it or any results for it for a long time um and i can

01:59:07.920 i can hear you i can hear you with that attitude because you're just focused on the next the next

01:59:12.400 university event the next campus event the next what's the next billboard going to be what's the next

01:59:17.200 uh um stra street epistemology what is it again yep yeah street epistemology yeah yeah um well awesome

01:59:28.640 francis thanks so much uh for joining us um and speaking of doing the hard work i'm actually going

01:59:34.800 to see you next week for the screening of my documentary the hate network tickets are still available for the

01:59:42.640 screening you can go to save no sorry you can go to free speech calgary.eventbrite.com or you can go

01:59:50.320 to savefreespeech.ca and scroll down to the calgary event and buy some tickets you'll be there on the

01:59:56.400 panel john carpe will be on the panel archer paulowski will be on the panel and also jojo ruba will be on

02:00:03.360 the panel and they all have similar experiences in terms of group mobs of people just hating them

02:00:10.240 maybe not john carpe he's he's more of a you know he's more of just from the jccf um he does his

02:00:16.880 best to not piss people off and do a good job of being a lawyer and uh and yeah but that should be a

02:00:23.360 good very good time hope to see people out there um you know i i do have some more energy maybe i could

02:00:31.200 bring up uh kathy drake was kathy was kathy on the ground for any of these events uh she she was kind

02:00:38.320 of a witness to some things she's been involved with the thompson rivers stuff she she was in the

02:00:42.480 first street epistemology in thompson rivers okay cool uh kathy if you're around and want to hop on

02:00:48.560 then uh then definitely grab a microphone unmute yourself say hello maybe share some of these uh your

02:00:56.800 thoughts on what we've been talking about i think i invited you up uh kathy testing hello sorry i was

02:01:06.000 trying to uh teach my son i was having a debate with him about how sticks and stones will break my

02:01:11.920 bones but names will never hurt me and these zoomers think that some sort of placebo effect

02:01:18.720 can physically harm you if you believe the words are going to harm you and i was trying to explain that

02:01:23.440 that's not on the responsibility of the person saying the words i don't know how the idea that words are

02:01:29.600 violent are infecting people i don't understand how this is actually like a an argument that you should

02:01:38.320 be able to police people's words um you know that you like you shouldn't be allowed to say slurs

02:01:46.000 that hate speech is real all these sorts of things yeah i was gonna say i think just to jump off that i

02:01:54.320 think for young people too like that they they grow up more online and more of their actual reality is

02:02:02.000 online so instead of being outside in the world talking to people see you know seeing their face

02:02:07.440 hearing their voice seeing the kind of complexities that they are the depth they are as a human being

02:02:12.960 you know when you're online it's like the block of text what does this text mean this means something so

02:02:18.560 there's so much gravity to these words it must mean something about who i am and affects my feelings

02:02:26.240 but i'm just kind of spitballing there sorry to cut you off yeah no for sure absolutely so um i'm really

02:02:33.600 grateful for uh francis widdowson's uh influence on myself and everyone else i i learned so much from

02:02:40.320 her every time i listened to her i learned more in this space and i'm looking forward to going to the

02:02:47.440 university of lethbridge with her and i'm nervous francis i feel like we need to actually break that

02:02:54.320 down and come up with a a plan um maybe i'm traumatized i gotta toughen up but i'm last time

02:03:04.320 uh that's the first time i met francis and uh last time we were there there was an angry mob and they

02:03:11.200 were drumming and uh one woman was dancing and kicking in the direction of francis forcing francis

02:03:17.120 to move back it was like a a veiled physical threat in a way it was like had this um plausible deniability

02:03:25.360 to it uh and at one point in time the police and the security guards had made a line like a red rover

02:03:32.640 line and they had francis go through there her husband and then they pointed to me and pointed over

02:03:39.120 uh his shoulder the one police officer had me go through the line and a couple other people and

02:03:45.280 i remember we were taken into these underground tunnels

Greg Wycliffe - December 11, 2025

Residential School Hysteria Roundtable with Frances Widdowson Uvic

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