On April 19th, 1995, Timothy McVeigh, an American Gulf War veteran, shocked America when he committed what was at that time the most devastating terrorist attack on American soil. A lone wolf, fueled by rage and racism, took it upon himself to blow up a federal building.
00:27:22.800You know, we have an incredible thing.
00:27:24.200We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys.
00:27:27.960And these are the guys who should be getting Pulisic.
00:27:29.980Jack DeSobiec, here we are back, Human Events, Daily Real America's Voice.
00:27:35.540We're talking blowback, the untold story of the FBI and the Oklahoma City bombing.
00:27:40.760And we just got to this huge bombshell in the story in the last segment talking about the FBI picking up this guy or, you know, eventually getting into custody.
00:27:50.620This guy, John Doe, who they believed was John Doe, too, Kenneth Trenadue, turns out it was a case of mistaken identity.
00:27:59.060And so we're on with the author, Margaret Roberts.
00:28:01.600Margaret, if Kenneth Trenadue, who turns up dead with all of these signs of torture around him, even though we're told it's suicide, if he wasn't John Doe, too, then who was?
00:28:20.380The story begins to unravel, weirdly enough, with a clue that Timothy McVeigh himself on death row sends to Jesse Trenadue in the year 2000.
00:28:38.140And Timothy McVeigh had been, of course, Kenneth's case was a cause celeb in prison, and Timothy McVeigh was fascinated by it.
00:28:48.980And he sent Jesse a clue, a message saying the FBI killed your brother, mistaking him for Richard Lee Guthrie.
00:29:01.000That's the clue to who John Doe, too, might have been.
00:29:07.260Richard Lee Guthrie was the leader of this Aryan Republican Army terror group that hid out in an eastern Oklahoma enclave known as Elohim City.
00:29:21.860So this is how, for Jesse, the Aryan Republican Army became the center of his investigation, and then mine as well.
00:29:34.740On death row, in exclusive interviews for 23 months leading up to the execution of Timothy McVeigh, he told this subversive story to his death row cellmate, David Hammer.
00:29:55.040And Timothy McVeigh's account to Hammer put the Aryan Republican Army members as his support squad in Oklahoma City on the day of the bombing.
00:30:09.460The question of which of them was John Doe, too.
00:30:15.920It could have been Richard Guthrie, it could have been another member of the gang, but McVeigh's clue brought the Aryan Republican Army front and center in Jesse Trinidue's investigation.
00:30:31.420Now, this Elohim City group, what do we know about this group, what has come out, and do they have any connections to any wider organization?
00:30:48.000Well, they were a way station for the white power movement.
00:30:55.200People came and went through Elohim City, the Aryan Republican Army, which, by the way, carried out 22 bank robberies in the Midwest in the two years before the bombing.
00:31:12.180And their haul was $250,000, twice that in today's money.
00:31:30.180And we know about them incredibly because the ATF, in the months before the Oklahoma City bombing,
00:31:41.400had an informant embedded in Elohim City watching and listening to this conspiracy, this plot,
00:31:55.680warning her handlers that a bombing was coming and that Oklahoma City was on the short list.
00:32:03.460So, and to a reporter that she trusted at the time named J.D. Cash, she named the names of the Aryan Republican Army as being in the center of the plot to bomb the Mira building in Oklahoma City.
00:32:22.140And so, if she's making these reports, wouldn't they presumably, hopefully, law enforcement or the ATF or reach out to their FBI compatriots,
00:32:34.480they certainly would have gone forward and stopped it, yet they didn't.
00:32:39.280Well, there's an astounding moment that comes just about a month, two months before the bombing,
00:32:49.500in which the FBI discovers and the ATF discover that there are actually two undercover operations afoot in Elohim City.
00:33:03.900They both were surveilling this plot, and the FBI essentially kicked ATF off its surveillance.
00:33:19.460So, the FBI was left, and very little is known about the FBI's operation either before or after that moment.
00:33:31.340But the ATF was soon dispatched, and their informant was also kicked off the case.
00:33:39.980And unbelievably, none of what she has been warning and telling her ATF handlers seems to have made it into the mix of what happened next as the plot went forward in Oklahoma City.
00:34:03.740PATCON was the FBI's 1990s very secret infiltration program targeting white supremacists, extreme right-wing radicals.
00:34:25.120And PATCON was surveilling Timothy McVeigh and at least some members of the Aryan Republican Army before the bombing.
00:34:39.400As in my investigation, one of the pivotal turning points comes in 2011, when an FBI whistleblower, a former top spy in PATCON, reaches out to Jesse Trinidue.
00:35:03.600There are a lot of Marines in this story.
00:35:06.000Jesse and John Matthews, the FBI whistleblower, are both Marines.
00:35:11.740And Matthews had been following Jesse's story as crusade for his brother.
00:35:17.660And he called Jesse and said, I want to come to Salt Lake City and tell you about PATCON.
00:35:23.940So PATCON, and it stands for Patriot Conspiracy, was, it sounds like these are entrapment operations.
00:35:37.940This sounds very, and to folks who have been watching me for the last couple of years,
00:35:42.480when we talk about things that went on during the Michigan militia with Whitmer, things that went on with January 6th,
00:35:50.380this is starting to sound a little bit familiar to us.
00:35:54.960The picture that emerges of the Oklahoma City bombing is very like the Whitmer kidnap plot,
00:36:06.260as we discovered one potential undercover operative after the next over the period of time we were looking at the bombing and looking for answers.
00:38:20.440All right, Jack Kosovic, here we are back.
00:38:25.400Our final segment with Margaret Roberts, the author of this incredible new book.
00:38:30.500As you can tell, I read it cover to cover because I couldn't put it down.
00:38:35.000It's called Blowback, the Untold Story of the FBI and the Oklahoma City Bombing.
00:38:41.140It starts with a wrongful death of a man who was wrongfully identified, mistakenly identified as a member of the plot to bomb the Oklahoma City building.
00:38:54.940And it deals with government informants over and over multiple agencies, a group called PATCON, the Patriot Conspiracy, a project that was run covertly by the FBI during the 1990s to set up essentially militia groups purportedly being racist and white nationalists and then entrap people in these various schemes.
00:39:20.400And there are whistleblowers that have come forward saying that, hey, this case, Oklahoma City was one of these entrapment operations that went really, really wrong.
00:40:46.160Almost no one even knows this videotape exists.
00:40:50.560And Jesse Trinidad's most recent landmark freedom of information lawsuit seeks to force the disclosure of those videotapes because, to bring our mystery full circle,
00:41:12.560The images that the American public has never been allowed to see are going to show who was on the ground with Timothy McVeigh, who certainly was not alone that day, and also might reveal who shot that videotape.
00:41:31.920There is a thought that maybe it was PATCON that shot that videotape.
00:41:38.540John Matthews, the whistleblower who came forward, said PATCON shot everything, videotaped everything.
00:41:45.960So that is one very current thrust of this.
00:41:51.360We don't have time to go into how it has languished for 11 years, but the tip of the iceberg is that John Matthews agreed to be Jesse's star witness at that videotapes trial.
00:42:05.120And until he pulled out on the eve of his testimony, telling Jesse that the FBI had pressured him into withdrawing from that from testifying and that he feared they would take his medical benefits and his pension.
00:42:25.680And in almost a plea, he told Jesse, I don't want to just be another homeless vet living under a bridge.
00:42:35.500So that witness tampering is still under investigation and behind it is the judgment from the judge about whether to release those videotapes or not.
00:42:49.600And another very current thrust of this investigation is the sealed deposition that John Matthews gave and which quite possibly he lays out the entire operation and scope of this rogue PATCON infiltration program,
00:43:20.680And if we knew what was inside that deposition, it might tell us a lot about the evolution of what is essentially a surveillance crisis in America that has progressed from Oklahoma City,
00:43:41.000perhaps to include the Boston Marathon bombing and more recent cases and tragedies all the way up to Russiagate.
00:43:58.920So the the the the path runs through the path of our need for transparency that we do not have runs through Oklahoma City.
00:44:11.920And if I could say one, please just, you know, blowback the title of my book, I think we should we should recognize that the this cover up that has been perpetuated for 30 years.
00:44:33.020What has kept this story alive has been individuals from survivors of the bombing to Jesse Trinity with his amazing and dogged investigation to to some maverick journalists who spoke truth to power,
00:44:55.160even when major news media, even when major news media were turning a blind eye or worse, helping to hide this story.
00:45:04.160So those people are really what has kept the truth alive here and your viewers, Jack, who have already weighed in on on on social media, having the reaction.
00:45:20.160Wait, what? I always wondered about the witnesses, the coverage.
00:45:27.160All of us are are having this reaction now.
00:45:33.160And this is very current now to our need for transparency because of what those whistleblowers, witnesses, survivors have done individually to keep the story alive.
00:45:49.160Well, and certainly you are speaking for them and people need to remember this.
00:45:56.160These are the family members of victims who suffered an unspeakable tragedy that none of them deserve.
00:46:06.160And their family members are the ones that have been fighting for truth, some of which for 30 years now.
00:46:13.160And we haven't even had time just due to the constraints here to get this out to talk about all of the other mysteries involved.
00:46:20.160Terrence Yeeke is the one that one that pops to the top of my head, a hero police sergeant and first responder who dies mysteriously after raising questions about this and other witnesses who claim to have seen.
00:46:34.160I've seen Timothy McVeigh working with other people all over the place before the bombing happened and then they all mysteriously either step off or are killed or some other situation happens.
00:46:50.160And the book, by the way, I'm going to say it again.
00:46:53.160So people don't need to get this because you need to get this one's blowback.
00:46:56.160It is a you know, I would say it's your beach read.
00:46:59.160It's not it's not a fun read, but it's an important read.
00:47:01.160And if you're someone who's a voracious reader wants to understand the truth about what's going on behind the scenes in your own country and possibly predict what might happen next.