DEFENSE RESTS AS COHEN THE RAT GETS CAUGHT IN HIS OWN TRAP
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Summary
On today's show, Jack Posobiec is joined by Andrew Yang and Andrew Giuliani to discuss the latest developments in the Trump administration, including the latest on the Mueller investigation and the indictments of former FBI Director Andrew McCabe and former Deputy Director of the FBI Andrew McCabe.
Transcript
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Hey folks, I want to remind you that the Turning Point Action People's Conference is coming up
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this June 14th to 16th in Detroit, Michigan. Get your tickets and then go to unhumansbook.com
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to come to a special meet and greet for the launch party of the Unhumans book with myself
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and Joshua Lysak. I'll see you there in Detroit.
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This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.
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A commentator, international social media sensation, and former Navy intelligence veteran.
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This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobiec.
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It's clear. Do all it can to ensure civilian protection.
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What's happening is not genocide. We reject that.
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The president also condemning the International Criminal Court after prosecutors announced
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they're seeking the arrest of Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Israel's defense minister
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When the cameras went back on in the overflow room, the face that Bob Costello was giving
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was a markedly different one. It was like a combination of embarrassed and angry.
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And then Mershon, by contrast, leaning back in his seat, looking at Costello like this,
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knowing I have regained control over my courtroom.
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He is a threat to the rule of law in America. That's to me, that's what this election is about.
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Not about policy differences. It's about what kind of country are we going to be.
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If he has the ability, smarter than he was last time, to use the power of the Department of Justice
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and the FBI to target his enemies especially, the rule of law in America will change in a way
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First thing he would do is he would express it in his first term as a wish.
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I want people to go after Andrew McCabe, the former deputy director of the FBI.
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In his second term, he would go a step further, I'm highly confident,
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and say, I want him criminally investigated. And he would have, he was close to the bottom
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of the barrel in his appointees last time. He'll be at the very bottom.
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And those are the people who carry out that order.
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Do they not see that this guy is promising? He's promising to be an authoritarian.
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He's talking about, you know, getting elected again after 2024.
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I just, it's like, we know who Trump is. This isn't about Trump.
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This isn't about Trump. This is about those people who are deciding
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instead of choosing democracy, American democracy, they're going to choose democracy.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily.
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We are live from Washington, D.C. My name is Jack Posobiec, and today is May 21st, 2024.
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Anno, Domini. It's my father's birthday. Happy birthday, Dad.
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You know, I just saw that clip from James Comey there saying,
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Donald Trump will fundamentally change the rule of law in this country.
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I pray to God that he does because we need to restore the rule of law in this country.
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The great Andrew Giuliani joins us now. Andrew, your Twitter feed, complete fire.
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Your coverage has been amazing this entire time.
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Tell me, what are the latest updates for us? Where are we with this case?
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Sure, Jack. I just want to make one more comment on Comey there, by the way.
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He said in that MSNBC clip that he wants to use the Department of Justice against his enemies.
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Can I remind all your viewers out there who one of the assistant district attorneys is?
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There's a guy named Matthew Colangelo. You know who Matthew Colangelo is?
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He was the number three guy in the Biden Justice Department.
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And he decided to take a demotion, unprecedented in United States legal history,
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to go and become a district attorney, an assistant district attorney here in Manhattan,
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so that way he could try. Who? Joe Biden's top opponent, Donald J. Trump.
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And it's so obvious. It's so obvious what's on it.
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No. To restore the rule of law, it's very simple.
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There needs to be reciprocity against the people that have committed these treasonous acts,
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who have committed this violation of the civil rights of every American,
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to have an uninterfered with or a fair election, just to have a fair and regular election.
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But no, we can't have that because of and the same way that they interfered with the first administration of Donald Trump.
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Some of us would say that maybe that constitutionally would say that that term doesn't even count
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because of the interference by the Department of Justice.
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Just throwing that out there. Just throwing it out there.
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But, Andrew, give us the latest. Give us the latest from the court.
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We're going to blow this break, by the way, folks.
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So I appreciate Real America's Voice for letting us do that because this is so important.
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Yeah, well, Jack, look, I think one of the biggest things to come out of today happened right as the defense arrested their case.
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They caught Michael Cohen in another perjury trap.
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So earlier yesterday, I should say, going back to last week,
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Michael Cohen characterized the relationship between him and Costello just as a legal advisor who was basically pursuing Cohen.
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Costello was pursuing Cohen for Cohen's business.
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Yesterday, the assistant district attorneys, the Soros-funded district attorney's office, asked Costello about an email that Costello's son sent to Costello saying,
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And what they were characterizing it as was that Costello was basically seeking the fame of representing Cohen,
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who was at the time the personal attorney to the president of the United States, saying that Costello had nefarious reasons for actually doing that.
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What Emile Beauvais, President Trump's defense attorney, actually exposed at the very, very end of his questioning was that that was not an original comment from Costello's son.
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Michael Cohen says, I'm so happy to have you on the team.
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And what did Michael Cohen say just a few short days ago after he swore his hand on the Bible there, the other two, the state of New York, that Costello was never his lawyer?
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Again, such an honor to have you on the team saying he was never his lawyer.
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Cohen perjured himself again at the very, very end of the defense's case.
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And, Jack, I got to tell you, I can't imagine a witness that would be worse that I've ever seen in my life than Michael Cohen.
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But he just almost doesn't know how to stop lying.
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And Todd Blanche did a great job of laying that out for the jury.
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To me, Jack, it's unconscionable, unconscionable that the judge allows this to go to a jury.
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But, again, we're talking about a judge whose daughter is profiting for her company the tune of $93 million.
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So, while no biased, no unbiased judge would let this go to the jury, I've got a bridge over here called the-
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Andrew, Andrew, the president, where I'm being told that President Trump is coming out.
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In fact, I just got almost every review that's been done of the case so far.
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And as they say, there is no crime that should have never been brought.
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It should be dismissed before you even have a verdict.
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But we have a judge that's extremely, let's say, complicated.
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But we have a situation where we have no crime.
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And this next couple of hours is very important because the judge can try and manufacture one where he goes from a misdemeanor, which doesn't exist because of the statute of limitations.
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But you can't do it because they haven't been able to prove it.
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And you see what's happened there with the court.
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I'm not allowed to say what I'd like to really say.
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If we do want to defend our Constitution, so at some point, maybe I will take the chance.
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It's a very serious situation when a Republican nominee for president, the Republican nominee, somebody that won easily and quickly in record time,
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gets, number one, gagged, and number two is before a Democrat-appointed judge.
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But the good news is they've not proven a case.
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And you know the ones that have to go over their names again.
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But all experts, legal scholars, talented people, very smart people.
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The judge will help them out because the judge has been very helpful to the other side.
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Now, on another note, Biden is releasing one million barrels of oil from the Northeast Reserve
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in a bid to lower prices at the pump just before the election because he's unable to drill properly.
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And now he has to go into what's called the Strategic Reserves to give oil and gasoline essentially for cars
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so they don't have to go up to $7, $8, $9 a barrel.
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By the way, if he ever got in again, you would be paying more than $10 a barrel.
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You better hope he doesn't get elected those that drive cars.
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And, by the way, and everybody else in our country.
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He's releasing one million barrels of oil and the Strategic Reserves.
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He's been doing this to keep the prices down, but the prices are now higher than they've been in a long time.
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And so he's trying to stop that because high gas leak prices are not good for elections if you're on his side of it.
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But nothing he's done has been good for elections.
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Everything he's done has been very bad for our country.
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And the border, I don't know if you've seen, but the border, record numbers of people from prisons, from jails, from mental institutions, parrots,
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record numbers of people are pouring into our country.
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Numbers like we've never seen before are pouring in.
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We have an incompetent president, and we have to win.
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And as I've said, November 5th, the most important day in the history of our country.
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Sir, why did you decide against testifying in your case?
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All right, Andrew, I want to get your response there, take on what the president has said,
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and also basically your read, I guess, on the fact that the jury does now have this case in their hands.
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We know it's only been about an hour or so so far since they have begun deliberations, and we'll see.
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I think that would be a quick conviction, but if it gets dragged out for a few more days,
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I think that could really lead to potentially some different outcomes.
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Well, Jack, a hard worker like yourself would think that actually they would start going in deliberations soon,
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but what this judge has done is he's given them off for the rest of the week,
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and summations actually won't happen until next Tuesday, at which point the jury will come back.
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That's New York State taxpayer dollars at your work.
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They're taking time off as opposed to actually going into deliberations and deciding this case.
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I'm sorry, we only have the fate of Western civilization hanging in the balance.
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And look, they're trying to just make sure that Donald Trump, as he said before,
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a gagged president right there, to use his terminology,
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cannot get back on the campaign trail at the pace that he would choose to do that.
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But I think it's brilliant what he does right there, Jack, when he starts talking about oil prices,
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when he does actually start talking about campaign issues.
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If the Soros-funded district attorney is not going to allow him to go on the campaign trail,
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And the Biden team is seeing just how much Trump is rising in the polls.
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Because even those people, maybe they didn't vote for President Trump in 2020,
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they're seeing just how slippery a slope this is.
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If you start going after, as James Comey said, political opponents.
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It's a very, very slippery slope in this country if you do that.
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And that's exactly what the Soros district attorney,
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in conjunction with the Biden Justice Department,
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is doing to the 45th President of the United States
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and the leading candidate to become the 47th President of the United States,
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We know that while the content of the case takes place
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between where the judge is, the witness box, the defense table, etc.,
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the judges of the case are actually sitting over in the jury box.
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We've had other, David Zier has been on and said that he thought
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What is your sense of how the jury is standing in this case?
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They have very good poker face, to be perfectly honest, Jack.
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I've been looking over there at some of the salacious testimony Stormy Daniels gave
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when Cohen perjured himself the first time, not the second time,
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But I'll just point out here to everybody who's watching your show
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and your incredible audience that you have worldwide,
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all the documents, all the witnesses, it's all based off the word of Michael Cohen.
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There's nothing that connects the president to, as the president said,
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And they got Michael Cohen to perjure himself on the stand
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So if you have an unbiased arbiter in there, in the jury,
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there's no way that they can convict Donald Trump.
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The only thing that scares me, Jack, is we're talking about Manhattan.
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79% voted for Alvin Bragg on a bail reform platform.
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So that's the only thing that scares me in looking at all those.
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But if they're unbiased, they acquit Donald Trump.
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Now, that being said, acquittal hung jury certainly also,
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if they can't get to that 12 unanimous consent for a guilty verdict.
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That said, even if those goes to a guilty verdict,
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we've seen other high-profile cases overturned in this very same circuit.
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We've seen multiple times where cases, including high-profile individuals,
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Harvey Weinstein's case was just overturned in this circuit.
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So is there a possibility that you can see, based on errors made in the case,
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particularly the conduct of the judge, that this could be overturned?
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And I think the Trump defense team has had that as a contingency plan the whole way.
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You can see in some of the motions that they end up presenting to the judge
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to get on the record before the jury ends up getting there.
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So that way, in case you have a biased jury that has already predetermined Donald Trump's guilt,
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even though there's been no crime that's been actually presented,
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that the Trump team has the opportunity to go and file for a guilt.
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I think it's very strong, Jack, to be perfectly honest.
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Well, this is absolutely incredible because you have a situation here where we know that this is a case
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that should have been dropped, that this is a case that, at this point, is completely ridiculous.
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And this judge, he seems determined to push it forward at any cost,
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And I hate to say, I hate to be the guy to throw out there that in New York City,
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a judge may have been given some kind of offer to keep a case going forward.
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But it's very, I will put it this way, it beggars belief that both Donald Trump and Steve Bannon
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Because, bear in mind, folks, this is the same judge, Womershawn, that Steve Bannon has to go up against
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because Letitia James has charged him again in this We Build the Wall situation
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that he received a pardon for at the federal level.
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Andrew, it's just kind of funny how that works.
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You get the same exact judge as Donald Trump, even though it's random selection.
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Yeah, it's like the judge in the D.C. courts, Barrett, right?
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Not Amy Comey Barrett, but Barrett in the D.C. courts.
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Well, she doesn't love you, Jack, and she sure as heck doesn't love me.
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So I think that's a really good example right there of somebody who basically has,
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look, just lay it out in terms of what Mershawn and his daughter, how his daughter makes a living.
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His daughter is, we're not talking about even a $100,000 a year job.
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Her company's made $93 million off the back of, get this, Adam Schiff, Kamala Harris,
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These are all people that have basically said Donald Trump is the devil in a certain kind of way.
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So you know he comes into this case completely biased.
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And they're making money off the case the same way that Michael Cohen is.
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I just realized I caught myself Amy Berman Jackson, not Amy Coney Barrett from the Supreme Court.
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But yes, Amy Berman Jackson is the one that we're speaking of.
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Andrew Giuliani, minute left, where can people follow you and what should they be paying attention to
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It's a long week, I guess, for the judge and the jury here.
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But at Andrew H. Giuliani, once we pick up again, I'll be live X-ing.
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And look, they should look, obviously, at the summations.
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I think the Trump team will give a very, very strong summation about Cohen perjuring himself.
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Also, on top of that, the fact that there still is no underlying felony here that the prosecution has pointed out.
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It's kind of amazing that we've still gotten to this point here where we're at summations
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But that's what you could be looking forward to here, Jack.
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That's what they say. Justice delayed is justice denied. Justice delayed is justice denied.
00:20:05.720
One of the hottest X accounts out there right now.
00:20:08.520
Be right back with Will Chamberlain to dig into the guts of this case.
00:20:12.240
Ladies and gentlemen, one of the best ways that you can support us here at Human Events and the work that we do
00:20:26.500
You hit the notifications so you'll never miss a clip.
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And we're putting them out every single day of the week.
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We'll talk about influencers. These are influencers and they're friends of mine.
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All right, folks. We're back. Jack Pesovic. Human Events Daily, Washington, D.C.
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Now, I want to get into some of the nuts and bolts of this case, the jury instructions,
00:22:01.960
the process, because as always is, folks, as it always is, the devil is in the details.
00:22:08.560
And someone who understands the details is Will Chamberlain from A3P Action.
00:22:19.100
Will, tell us how people can get involved with A3P Action.
00:22:22.940
So, yeah, if you sign up on this website and you go to this portal, basically it'll give
00:22:29.360
you the opportunity to email your congressman with, like, a click or two and talk to them
00:22:35.280
about what, you know, basically complain about something that they're doing wrong and join
00:22:40.440
So, you know, be it wanting to say something about what's the horrible offer against President
00:22:46.000
Trump or any number of other issues, it makes it very, very easy to engage with your congresspeople.
00:22:51.080
And that's really important because what congresspeople ultimately pay attention to, I am reliably
00:22:55.160
informed, is do their constituents have a complaint about what they specifically are doing?
00:23:02.220
They're worried about votes and that has as much impact as anything.
00:23:04.820
So it's a really unique and very good setup for you guys to be able to take action and
00:23:10.620
really get Congress to pay attention to what you're doing.
00:23:17.000
So people go, A3P Action, and they can check up this portal.
00:23:22.540
Everyone knows Mike Davis is always out there leading the fight.
00:23:28.220
This is how people can get involved in the very same fight.
00:23:34.420
We say, in Unhumans, what is the best way to get back at the left or the regime or the
00:23:41.320
Will, one of my favorite words that we've brought up and introduced, and you've played
00:23:45.340
no small role in reintroducing this word as well to the lexicon, the word is reciprocity.
00:23:54.300
Because unilateral disarmament is a good way to lose and lose repeatedly, right?
00:23:58.620
Like, you know, this is something that, you know, you go to evolutionary biology and you
00:24:07.160
They are willing to open with cooperation, but once their partner defects against them,
00:24:16.480
And, you know, this phenomena replicates itself not just in, you know, evolutionary biology,
00:24:26.560
And yet we have many conservatives who say you should always just turn the other cheek,
00:24:33.340
And particularly one of the things that always irritates me is when Republicans say, oh,
00:24:37.300
we shouldn't do this thing because it'll set a bad precedent.
00:24:39.940
And then they're surprised that Democrats do an unprecedented thing when they have power.
00:24:45.020
You shouldn't worry about what precedent you're setting for Democrats because Democrats don't
00:24:48.440
care about precedent when they're deciding what to do.
00:24:51.400
Well, and as, as, and as, so, and, and in that same vein, Will, as we talk about Democrats
00:24:58.820
So the Democrats, uh, about a year and change ago, decided to cross the Rubicon and indict
00:25:05.320
the former president of the United States, uh, and not just one, but four times.
00:25:10.480
And specifically the very first one, uh, was this case, which we are now seeing displayed
00:25:17.260
before us, which, and keep in mind, this, this, this is the, a trial.
00:25:22.060
And, and you understand this better than me, um, uh, Will is Georgetown law, everyone, but
00:25:26.260
you know, a trial is supposed to be as, as the general popular understanding of it is,
00:25:36.000
And this is supposed to be the presentation of that crime to the public.
00:25:42.900
That is why the burden is on the prosecution, not on the defense, because the burden of proof
00:25:46.940
is on those who are presenting the crime before the public, the public represented by the
00:25:51.760
jury is then supposed to determine the guilt of the accused.
00:26:00.040
We've thrown precedent completely out the window on this one.
00:26:02.680
And I say, we, I certainly don't mean we, I mean the unhumans that are behind this process.
00:26:09.280
Uh, this must be totally locked down if they were willing to, for the first time in American
00:26:16.020
I mean, they must have had him pretty ironclad to rights.
00:26:20.080
I know this trial has not gone well for the Democrats late and, and to the point that
00:26:24.460
even if they somehow managed to nail a jury of 12 absolute Trump haters, and the guy's
00:26:29.020
going to get convicted, it's, it's going to be seen as illegitimate by the broader public.
00:26:33.140
Um, the basic problem is that it shows a very complicated and convoluted legal theory to
00:26:38.900
avoid a very obvious statute of limitations problem.
00:26:41.240
Um, and then in doing so they needed to rely on Michael Cohen, a convicted perjurer and
00:26:48.560
disbarred attorney and his credibility in order to get Trump convicted.
00:26:52.400
Um, not that, so that's, that's just two of the most obvious problems.
00:26:56.480
There are others as well, but the, the thing about Michael Cohen, I I've said this before.
00:27:00.620
He, I think he's the single most despicable figure in all of the Russiagate nonsense and
00:27:05.520
all of the lawfare against president Trump in the last decade, this is a guy who recorded
00:27:10.900
his client as an attorney and then did so, and then sold, basically sold the rights to
00:27:20.080
It's, I mean, as an attorney myself, it strikes that like the most fundamental thing about
00:27:24.080
legal ethics, which is your, you have a duty of loyalty to your client.
00:27:28.000
You are obligated to preserve his confidence as sacrosanct.
00:27:30.800
Michael Cohen didn't just breach that, that duty of loyalty.
00:27:34.400
He sold out that duty of loyalty and profit off of breaching that duty.
00:27:39.780
Well, and this, and this, this is a huge thing.
00:27:42.420
I mean, in, in the times that I've had to deal with, uh, lawyers or even, even any time
00:27:48.620
when you're bringing someone into confidence, the idea is that you would not have that confidence
00:27:58.700
The whole profession can't operate if there's no level of trust between the attorney client
00:28:10.440
Um, the idea is that when you deal with the legal system, there should be somebody on
00:28:16.020
Um, and that client should be able to be honest with their lawyers to help lawyers steer them
00:28:20.780
through, uh, dealing with the courts, which is usually a very, very important moment in
00:28:26.580
In a situation where they have to deal with the courts.
00:28:28.220
So yeah, it's, it's truly appalling and contemptible.
00:28:31.820
And not only that, the guy's lied under oath a bazillion times, and it looks like President
00:28:37.660
Trump's lawyers caught him lying under oath yet again about this phone call that Cohen
00:28:46.480
Apparently the phone call was, you know, Cohen testified that it was about the Stormy Daniels
00:28:50.880
And in reality, it looks like it was about Cohen being mad about some 14 year old harassing
00:28:55.540
All he had to do, all Michael Cohen had to do was go on the stand and not lie.
00:29:05.140
All he had to do was testify to the facts and not lie.
00:29:17.360
That means, and, and will, you know, you know this and, and people have talked about the prep
00:29:22.860
That was a question that must've come up a dozen or more times.
00:29:27.960
Are you sure this is what you talked about on the call?
00:29:31.100
Are you absolutely sure this is what you talked about?
00:29:34.140
Are you, this is like the, the central part of your testimony.
00:29:38.020
And so I guess my question is, you know, do you think that Cohen, um, you know, that he
00:29:43.260
told them the truth that, uh, you know, the prosecution team, or do you think he was
00:29:47.420
I think he might've just been lying to everybody.
00:29:49.400
And I mean, I think you gotta realize also, he has another incentive.
00:29:54.680
The guy admitted on the stand to stealing money from the Trump organization.
00:29:57.960
He did offhandedly in the, in his direct testimony.
00:30:00.820
But when he was, you know, questioned about it, yeah, this is a guy who stole like 60 grand
00:30:06.120
And that's a more serious crime than what Trump is even charged with.
00:30:09.900
The falsification of business records is not as serious as a straightforward larceny,
00:30:14.260
which is a felony outright, not something that has to be manufactured into a felony.
00:30:18.600
And normally prosecutors are looking to convict the most serious criminal who has committed
00:30:26.220
If they're, and if they want to let somebody plea out, they let somebody who's lesser involved
00:30:31.680
But here it's completely inverted because they're more interested in the person rather than the
00:30:37.400
They're going to let Michael Cohen off of a larceny, a $60,000 theft in order to get Donald
00:30:44.920
Trump, who they allege might have instructed somebody else to change something on the books.
00:30:53.780
And it's, I mean, it's just generally a part of like what, what's so wrong with this prosecution.
00:31:01.060
Well, and, and, and we get, well, we've got a two minutes until the break, but we'll,
00:31:04.320
we'll come back after this and, and go into it at length because I've seen so many people
00:31:09.220
and even the New York post headline and their, their cover today is, is, well, so he stole.
00:31:20.320
The bigger point here, isn't just that he stole from the Trump organization in terms
00:31:26.900
It's that he was overcharging for these reimbursements.
00:31:32.160
He was overcharging for these expenses in the deal that he, the scheme that he himself put
00:31:43.500
And therefore not only does it impeach his character, it impeaches his ability as a material
00:31:50.640
witness to, um, uh, to explain his actions and his statements because it calls all of
00:32:04.160
And, and of course, Donald Trump, if, if, uh, if involved in it all, as you just said,
00:32:09.080
well, he was operating on the advice of this individual, he would, he was operating on the
00:32:16.280
So it seems to me, and this is something that CNN, a lot of people made this point that,
00:32:20.660
you know, clearly there's a much larger crime here that's been committed by Michael Cohen.
00:32:28.860
I mean, that's usually like a fine and you refile.
00:32:36.960
Article three project action, a three P action.
00:32:44.940
But I rolled with bloods and them boys had a saying, you can't be listening to all that
00:32:50.400
slappy whack trim out as all it's a bam ship, nippy, bam, bam, like human events with Jack
00:33:01.880
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00:34:01.080
Will Chamberlain is on with us from A3P Action.
00:34:22.260
Will, one of the questions that producer Foss was,
00:34:24.060
asking over the break, this question of dismissing the case.
00:34:27.780
Now, motion dismiss, that's something that's made, it's every trial, every criminal trial
00:34:35.080
When the prosecution rests before it goes to the defense side, they say, oh, they haven't
00:34:38.900
proven the case and the evidence isn't there, so we're going to dismiss.
00:34:41.960
And what a lot of people have pointed out, though, that in this case, in this instance,
00:34:47.240
it seems like there actually is very strong grounds to do so because their own star witness perjured
00:34:57.000
himself, and not just perjured himself about something immaterial, about multiple material
00:35:06.120
Yeah, it's normally a very high bar to meet in order to get a case dismissed in the sense
00:35:12.120
that you have to demonstrate that basically no reasonable juror could find that President
00:35:21.980
But here, you've got a way to do it, and I think actually the motion to dismiss should
00:35:29.620
This case includes an intent element that says President Trump had to know he was both
00:35:33.740
intending to defraud or to put in a false business record, but also that he was intending
00:35:40.960
to commit another crime while doing so, namely some sort of election fraud crime.
00:35:46.320
And the only testimony, the only evidence of any kind that was presented by the prosecution
00:35:50.800
for those intent elements was Michael Cohen's testimony about conversations Cohen had with
00:35:57.940
And the problem is Cohen admitted to perjuring himself in a stand.
00:36:01.040
And so it's pretty easy to say that if the guy's willing to lie under oath, he's lied under
00:36:04.700
oath in the past, and he's lied under oath during this testimony, that no reasonable juror
00:36:09.960
could say beyond a reasonable doubt that Michael Cohen's testimony was truthful, and therefore
00:36:15.440
no reasonable juror could find President Trump guilty beyond a reasonable doubt, since Cohen's
00:36:20.180
testimony is the only evidence to prove one or two elements of this crime.
00:36:28.820
And this is a huge part of it, but we'll, I'll play devil's advocate for a second.
00:36:42.840
Surely, these are corroboration of the fact that Donald Trump was behind this attempt to
00:36:49.680
cover up the false business records in order to benefit his campaign for president.
00:36:57.300
Those tapes don't contain the specific discussions about how this would be recorded.
00:37:02.700
They don't contain the specific discussions about the purpose of the entire scheme being
00:37:07.320
related to elections and President Trump's campaign.
00:37:11.720
And because they don't contain those specific facts, you're, again, relying on Cohen's testimony.
00:37:19.620
He testified that President Trump was deeply understood the nature of what would happen to
00:37:26.800
Cohen testified that President Trump was doing this for political purposes.
00:37:30.720
And there's nobody else who was in the room, there's nobody else who testified that was
00:37:36.420
in the room, rather, who could confirm what Cohen was saying.
00:37:39.980
So, again, for that key point, the question of what was President Trump intending, there
00:37:46.160
is no other evidence at all except Cohen's testimony.
00:37:48.860
And because there's no other evidence but Cohen's testimony, if, you know, again, if the judge
00:37:53.640
says to himself, it is not reasonable to assign 100% credibility to Cohen, then it's not reasonable
00:37:59.700
for any juror to find Trump guilty beyond a reasonable doubt.
00:38:07.560
And obviously, this is something that could come up at Appeal.
00:38:10.340
But before anything gets to Appeal, it goes to the jury.
00:38:15.020
And even before it goes to the jury, there's a few other steps.
00:38:20.760
If I understand from Andrew Giuliani, who was just on, who's been covering this case live
00:38:25.040
from the courtroom, it seems as though they've sent the jury back for, you know, kind of
00:38:31.260
Of course, there's probably going to be a few days where they go back and forth over jury
00:38:35.400
I don't believe, it sounds like they're not calling the jury back until after the Memorial
00:38:40.440
And if jury instructions haven't been agreed to since then, we might see another hearing on
00:38:46.620
So, walk us through what, what do jury instructions mean?
00:38:50.980
And then what's going to happen before the jury goes back for deliberations?
00:38:56.600
So, I mean, everybody understands that there is a criminal statute that President Trump
00:39:04.720
Jury instructions are the process of translating that criminal statute into something that jury
00:39:10.100
understands and then can be instructed as to like what they need to find for each element
00:39:16.820
That is itself a very trick, can be a very tricky process.
00:39:20.340
Oftentimes, basically what, what courts try to do is they try to use model jury instructions
00:39:25.360
or jury instructions from previous cases that were upheld on appeal as accurate.
00:39:30.500
That's a way that they avoid most of these problems.
00:39:32.640
But, you know, falsification of business records, this is not that commonly charged with crime.
00:39:39.640
There's also some unique, distinct issues about this particular case in terms of the
00:39:43.640
intent requirement and the fact that you have this, this federal election element, right?
00:39:48.380
Because an element of this crime is that President Trump intended to commit a different
00:39:52.640
crime in furtherance, or rather did the, you know, did the falsification of business
00:39:59.700
So, there has to be jury instructions about what that other crime was and what the jury has
00:40:06.620
Well, and this has been, real quick, this has been a huge element of it because we have
00:40:13.020
not really heard this from Bragg or his team, what specifically that underlying crime was
00:40:20.820
So, I imagine that that's going to be a key point that is argued over between both sets of
00:40:28.920
lawyers because, of course, when that gets sent to the jury, you can't leave that up to
00:40:33.420
chance, you can't, there can't be vagaries in the jury instructions there.
00:40:37.080
That has to be a clear letter law when it's given to the jury.
00:40:41.440
Or, by the way, that's another thing that you can bring up on appeal.
00:40:47.660
The failure to have an expert come in and explain the nuances of a very complicated area
00:40:52.700
of federal law that the judge is not an expert in.
00:40:54.920
I mean, normally, judges are loathe to allow legal experts to come testify because the judge
00:40:58.840
is supposed to be the expert on the law, and it's not supposed to be a factual issue for
00:41:03.540
But because this is an element of the offense, right, the intent to commit a different crime
00:41:09.180
is an element of defense, that's actually an important point is he should have had a
00:41:20.940
That's going to be a huge question for Trump's legal team.
00:41:23.860
Are they going to push for a legal expert to come in specifically because, as you point
00:41:29.480
out correctly, that this is a federal crime, but it's a state judge.
00:41:33.860
So it is not a crime that he would have had any direct experience with in his courtroom
00:41:40.820
because it's completely out of his jurisdiction, which is also, by the way, that they were trying
00:41:47.440
And that's also why they were trying to get the former FEC chair in, which he, I believe,
00:41:58.560
The FEC chair was going to be the legal expert to talk about this.
00:42:01.560
Merchant, the Trump team brought him forward and said, please let this guy testify.
00:42:05.080
Merchant's like, no, I'm the expert on the law.
00:42:07.800
But then here's the other thing that was such a problem.
00:42:12.280
He let Michael Cohen testify about something that Trump did and let him say it was an election
00:42:19.380
Cohen is certainly no expert on federal election law, but Merchant led that testimony through
00:42:28.060
I mean, you're not going to let the actual expert on the substantive law and the intent
00:42:31.420
required come in and say what constitutes a crime in either way, but you're going to
00:42:36.840
By the way, Will, we've got a quick break coming up.
00:42:43.380
Merchant completely keeps ruling for the prosecution in terms of the jury instructions.
00:42:49.860
More on that when we come back to Human Events Daily.
00:42:51.200
Human Events Editorial Board, this case is a joke.
00:43:01.060
Ashton Kutcher is going to pop and left to tell us that we've been pumped.
00:43:13.700
We've got the latest from inside the courtroom.
00:43:17.060
And we're looking at Jonathan Turley's thread here from Twitter.
00:43:20.260
What's going on in the courtroom as we speak is exactly what Will Chamberlain was delineating
00:43:28.780
They're arguing over this issue of legal experts not being provided to the jury.
00:43:33.860
They're pointing out these are extremely complicated and ever-shifting, by the way,
00:43:39.100
regulations from the Federal Elections Commission regarding campaign donations.
00:43:44.620
And of course, who's arguing against all of this?
00:43:48.840
The judge, of course, ruling for the prosecution over and over and over.
00:43:53.180
And in fact, at one point, it says the defense is even arguing that they should include information
00:43:59.280
that points out that a candidate, and this is just standard, a candidate is allowed to
00:44:05.440
donate as much money as they want to their own campaign.
00:44:09.780
And therefore, should Trump have, let's say this was actually a campaign donation, if he
00:44:15.760
had wanted to, he could have just paid it himself and wouldn't have needed any criminal
00:44:22.640
But of course, the prosecutors are arguing that all of these things should be struck.
00:44:31.820
Yeah, my sense is that it's very clear Merchant is putting his thumb on the scale for the prosecution
00:44:39.580
They're just giving the prosecution what they want on the jury instructions.
00:44:45.160
That's the way Merchant's been conducting himself for the entirety of the trial.
00:44:48.000
The big, I mean, the one big issue is the prosecution's getting up there and trying to say that there
00:44:55.200
doesn't need to be intent for the unlawful means that President Trump would have used.
00:44:59.560
But that's a way to circumvent criminal law more generally, because you can't negligently
00:45:12.060
So, you know, it's actually quite bizarre, right?
00:45:16.280
Like the just reading that just off the top of my head, I'm seeing problems already with
00:45:22.120
the way that Judge Merchant is getting these jury instructions.
00:45:28.640
They're arguing that there doesn't need to be criminal intent?
00:45:32.880
For this one particular, for that small element of the case, they're saying, you know, basically,
00:45:37.540
oh, if you did this via unlawful means, well, the intent, you didn't need to have the intent
00:45:47.680
And they're only criminal if you had criminal intent.
00:45:50.400
So there's sort of a foundational problem with how they're approaching this.
00:45:53.920
And that's just what I'm reading from John Turley's feed.
00:45:57.060
I'm assuming he's accurately characterizing all this.
00:46:04.240
Oh, I was going to throw out there that again, they haven't even proven that Trump was willfully
00:46:11.580
doing this to support his campaign primarily, because I remember the one testimony that nobody's
00:46:20.720
And people were saying this was going to be some big betrayal, and she's going to come
00:46:24.100
out there, she worked for the man, and now she's testifying against him.
00:46:26.600
But she came up there, and she said, no, he didn't talk about the campaign at all.
00:46:31.820
And he mostly said that he was worried about how it would affect his family.
00:46:36.300
They said that he was worried about, obviously, how it would affect his relationship with his
00:46:40.960
The fact that he was even, say, you know, telling people, don't, you know, deliver the
00:46:45.020
newspapers to our room that day, canceling the service and all of this.
00:46:49.740
Those don't sound like the actions of a man who's first and foremost trying to conduct
00:46:57.380
They said it sounds like a guy who's getting blackmailed and doesn't want his family to
00:47:05.580
If you think that President Trump would mean, even if you think President Trump did everything
00:47:09.680
Michael Cohen alleged, if you think he did it because he was trying to protect his family
00:47:14.000
and trying to avoid personal embarrassment in his marriage, then it's not guilty, because
00:47:20.480
That's not the intent required for the crime that he's been charged with.
00:47:23.520
And it's, you know, it's amazing to me that we're going to this level of having, you know,
00:47:32.120
we've got jury instructions regarding Federal Election Commission reports, but I don't even
00:47:38.060
feel like they've proven that this was done with intent to, you know, to interfere in the
00:47:44.060
What was intended to interfere with the election, or I guess to use as leverage for the election,
00:47:49.140
was the fact that Stormy Daniels and her crooked former lawyer, who, by the way, has also now
00:47:55.200
pointed out the futility of this case, and I guess her ex-husband who was involved in
00:48:00.040
all this, they were the ones extorting money from a guy running for president, holding this
00:48:06.600
thing, which of course hasn't been proven over his head.
00:48:09.480
And then you have the crooked Michael Cohen getting involved and realizing that he can rub a
00:48:19.140
And I mean, the deep irony here is, of course, they're saying President Trump is responsible
00:48:29.100
And they're the ones who've indicted the guy four times in four different jurisdictions
00:48:38.240
Like, what are we, you know, these people are jokers.
00:48:41.260
Originally three jurisdictions, by the way, but they moved one.
00:48:46.140
I don't know, maybe I'm, you know, I'm overestimating the sheer density of indictments that they've
00:48:52.820
No, it's, it's, there's, there's so many different, because of the complicated this case is, because
00:48:59.040
of how complicated the indictment is, there's so many different individual things they have
00:49:02.860
And there's so many unique problems with each of the individual things they have to
00:49:08.560
Like, you have to prove so many distinct things about President Trump's intent that he knew,
00:49:13.740
That he knew that this, there was going to be a falsification of the business records,
00:49:16.700
that he was intending to do so, not for his own personal reasons, but in furtherance of
00:49:23.840
Well, what, and what are the parameters of that federal election crime?
00:49:28.460
Because some things, as you say, you're allowed to donate as much money as you want to that
00:49:32.880
When does, what, what exactly constitutes an illegal election donation?
00:49:36.740
And what is the necessary intent for that illegal election donation?
00:49:40.580
Like, problem after problem after problem, that any jury...
00:49:44.340
Right, you can't make an illegal donation to yourself.
00:49:47.960
You can't make an illegal donation to yourself, because you're paying your own campaign.
00:49:52.280
Meanwhile, there's a guy who stole 60 grand from him, and you use, rather than charge
00:49:56.220
him with his brazen theft, you're putting him on the stand.
00:50:00.040
Putting him on the stand, and, and as far as we know, he still has the money, or I'm sure,
00:50:07.280
Let people know where people, where, where they can go to, I mean, we're just having too
00:50:11.000
much fun clowning on Michael Cohen, the time has gotten away from us, um, and, and all
00:50:14.980
of these, this, these, uh, ridiculous buffoons.
00:50:26.860
You can tell Congress to defund this lawfare on President Trump by supporting Representative
00:50:30.160
Clyde's appropriations rider that would stop all this until...
00:50:42.560
We are coming after you, and we're not going to stop.
00:50:47.460
Ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission to lay short.