Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - EASTER SUNDAY SPECIAL： CHRIST'S DESCENT INTO HELL & DEFEAT OVER SATAN

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00:00:23.620 The Poso Daily Brief.

00:00:30.000 Who hit you?

00:00:40.960 Guess.

00:00:41.480 Prophesy.

00:00:42.580 Who'll hit you next?

00:00:45.860 Stop it.

00:00:47.780 Stop it, I said.

00:00:49.700 Bring him before the council.

00:00:52.140 Move.

00:01:00.000 Tell us, are you the Messiah?

00:01:23.960 If I tell you, you will not believe me.

00:01:27.580 And if I ask you a question, you will not answer me.

00:01:33.540 What?

00:01:42.040 But from now on, the Son of Man will be seated at the right side of Almighty God.

00:01:48.600 Are you then the Son of God?

00:01:53.100 You say that I am.

00:01:54.620 Who gives him the authority to break all of that?

00:02:02.460 He seems to be guilty of course he will.

00:02:08.400 We ourselves have heard what he said.

00:02:16.580 We will take him to Pilate.

00:02:20.580 Away with him.

00:02:21.580 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome to the Human Events Easter special.

00:02:30.640 And let me just say from all of the Posobiec family to all of you, happy Easter.

00:02:37.160 Christ is risen.

00:02:38.960 He is risen.

00:02:39.900 He is risen.

00:02:40.780 Alleluia.

00:02:41.860 He is risen.

00:02:43.700 And joining us on this auspicious day is none other than Dr. Taylor Marshall to explain to us the importance, not only of the story that we all know, but also the metaphysical implications of Christ's victory over death.

00:03:01.720 Dr. Taylor Marshall, thanks for joining us once again here on Human Events.

00:03:05.220 Christ is risen.

00:03:06.420 Alleluia.

00:03:06.920 So, we know the story.

00:03:10.220 My four-year-old knows the story.

00:03:12.140 I've actually taken him and his little brother to the Church of the Holy Sepulcher.

00:03:17.360 They've visited the tomb.

00:03:19.380 They've visited the place of Golgotha.

00:03:22.740 They've placed their hands upon the rock itself under the altar.

00:03:26.880 And so, we know, I think, the basics of the Easter story, the three days, etc.

00:03:35.040 But there's something that people miss, I think, and a lot of adults miss.

00:03:39.860 And I think in the Western Church, we really miss this idea of the massive metaphysical implications of what's going on during Holy Week.

00:03:51.800 That begins, and you've spoken about this before, about how it begins on Holy Thursday at the Last Supper.

00:03:59.440 It continues through the Passion.

00:04:01.300 It continues also through Holy Saturday with the descent into hell, the harrowing of hell, as is taught to us in the Apostles' Creed, which then culminates on Easter Sunday.

00:04:16.800 Can you walk us through that and what you've been able to unpack so incredibly well in your work?

00:04:24.380 Yeah, well, we have to remember on this Easter that all the other religions have prophets, teachers, so-called, but Jesus Christ, the Messiah, rose on the third day.

00:04:34.860 It's a historical claim.

00:04:36.280 It's not just a myth.

00:04:37.120 It's not a legend.

00:04:37.820 We truly believe that our Lord Jesus Christ was crucified and rose on the third day.

00:04:42.760 And as you just mentioned, the events in Holy Week are all linked up so that in the eyes of the earliest Christians, they perceived it as one event.

00:04:54.100 So you have Christ instituting the Eucharist, the Last Supper, on Thursday night, and then that moves into the betrayal, the agony in the garden, and then into the Passion, the scourging, the crucifixion, the death, the harrowing of hell, which we'll talk about today, which is Christ descending into the realm of the dead, as we say in the Creed, descended into hell.

00:05:15.660 And then the miraculous, glorious resurrection, all of that is a package.

00:05:22.280 It all fits together.

00:05:23.760 The earliest Christians called this entire event, we call it triduum, and Latin means three days, Pascha.

00:05:30.100 And Pascha is the Greek word for the Hebrew festival of Passover.

00:05:34.880 So we Catholics, Christians—

00:05:38.180 Well, and just to throw in there, because, of course, you know, Tanya, my wife, comes from the Eastern Orthodox tradition, that even to her, it's much more common.

00:05:48.740 She's more familiar with the word Pascha.

00:05:50.900 So she would say Pascha.

00:05:52.360 She would call it Pascha.

00:05:53.960 They still celebrate on the older calendar, the Julian calendar.

00:05:57.200 And so for her, you always get those sort of pop history articles around this time of year saying, oh, Easter is based on this ancient pagan holiday and the bunny and all this.

00:06:12.060 And it's like, no, that's literally just the language of English that does that.

00:06:16.940 That's in every single—almost every single other country in the world, they actually refer to it as Pascha.

00:06:23.060 We call it the Paschal season for a reason. 0.99

00:06:27.320 And so it's silly that they play these language games to try to say, oh, you know, it's all based on this pagan holiday.

00:06:34.060 No, no, it isn't.

00:06:35.120 These are actual historical events that took place.

00:06:38.760 And you had a great response to Joe Rogan a couple of weeks ago.

00:06:42.860 I remember sharing it.

00:06:45.000 Everybody should go listen to that.

00:06:46.180 It's Joe Rogan's five questions about Christianity.

00:06:49.280 And I remember you really, really focused on the fact that when you're defending Christianity to anyone or just explaining it, that you have to uphold the resurrection.

00:06:59.660 Because that is actually the singular moment that proves that Christianity, number one, is real and then also proves that Christ is the Messiah.

00:07:11.020 Yeah, absolutely.

00:07:12.620 That's just a teacher. 0.96

00:07:13.140 And if you—everyone kind of knows the Ten Commandments, even if you've read in the Bible or seen the Charlton Heston film, the whole idea is that in order to preserve the firstborn of Israel, they took a lamb, they killed the lamb, they spread the blood of the lamb over the doorposts, and then they ate the lamb.

00:07:31.120 And Christ comes, and before he sheds his blood, he institutes a ceremonial sacrament, the Eucharist, where he says, take, eat, this is my body.

00:07:42.360 Take, drink, this is my blood.

00:07:43.860 So he's instituting at a Passover a means by which we can commune with Jesus through eating. 0.63

00:07:50.520 And then within hours from that, he's on the cross, shedding his blood, dies for our salvation.

00:07:57.200 And then the great mystery is he descends into hell.

00:08:01.640 And what does that mean?

00:08:02.500 Does that mean that he suffered the fires of hell?

00:08:04.760 No, Christians don't really believe that.

00:08:07.260 But a lot of people are confused, especially those from an evangelical background who have not heard this.

00:08:11.460 All the church fathers, all the earliest Christians, and we'll see in a little bit in Peter, Paul, the book of Acts, they understand that after Christ died on the cross, he continued his salvific mission in the realm of the dead.

00:08:26.680 And it's absolutely beautiful, it's fascinating, and I think if people meditate and pray about it over this Easter, I think it'll really enrich their faith to see that Christ in his redemption doesn't just extend into his present or into the future where we live, but actually into the past, into the Old Testament.

00:08:47.040 Right, and this is something that, and I want to get into it in the next segment in more detail, but it's something, again, we're using corporeal language that we've created, English, or if you want to even get into Greek or Latin, those are still human-created languages.

00:09:04.920 So we're using language and concepts and forms from the physical world to try to describe things that are taking place on the preternatural metaphysical stage.

00:09:18.640 So the idea that we're ever going to, you know, when people say it's hella place, it's, you know, you Catholics believe in purgatory. 0.77

00:09:24.740 Where is purgatory?

00:09:25.660 These are metaphysical concepts.

00:09:28.760 And so the idea that he can reach across time, well, what is time to God, right?

00:09:35.620 What is time to someone who sits outside of time?

00:09:38.060 And that is a concept in and of itself that we, in this space, have no ability to even begin to comprehend.

00:09:47.220 Yeah, there's definitely a metaphysical, preternatural, and supernatural element here.

00:09:52.440 And, yeah, we, I think it was the, I think it was the fourth ladder in council that says whenever we're talking about God or theological concepts, there's always a similarity and a dissimilarity when we're talking about theology because of the limits of finite created minds.

00:10:10.880 Like, you're and mine, you know, we don't have perfect brains, we make mistakes, but also just the failings of temporal finite language.

00:10:18.540 So I think that's a principle whenever we do theology, we can be accurate by using language, but we have to realize there's always a similarity and a dissimilarity when we're talking about these, these concepts, these mysteries.

00:10:31.380 And the Eastern Church, I think, does a great job by using.

00:10:34.460 In the rosary, they're called mysteries.

00:10:37.120 Mysteries, mysteries.

00:10:38.220 So we're approaching the truths here.

00:10:41.340 We're not fully comprehending these divine mysteries.

00:10:45.940 No, I think, yeah, didn't mean to cut you off, but that's exactly right.

00:10:49.020 That even in just something as basic as the rosary, it's referred to, these are the mysteries, the sorrowful, the glorious, the joyful, luminous, if you choose.

00:11:01.140 And that it's still, there's an extent that we're not supposed to be able to understand what's going on.

00:11:08.240 And people will say, you know, well, that could never happen.

00:11:12.340 It's a right.

00:11:13.120 No, we get it.

00:11:13.720 It's miraculous.

00:11:14.760 That's the whole thing.

00:11:15.600 No, I agree with you.

00:11:18.620 You're right.

00:11:19.240 You're right, Joe Rook.

00:11:19.940 And that, that is, that does sound crazy.

00:11:21.740 How could that possibly happen?

00:11:23.460 Well, because we're talking about something on the metaphysical realm.

00:11:26.620 Got about a minute left.

00:11:28.300 But as what's the best way for people to start thinking about this, you would say?

00:11:35.300 Well, I mean, the best way is for 2000 years, we've had these rituals, these liturgies, these services that have been, according to tradition, developed by the 12 apostles and passed down through the centuries.

00:11:50.140 So there's, there's special prayers and liturgies for what we call Maundy Thursday, which is the evening of the Last Supper, Good Friday.

00:11:58.060 I mean, we, we have early records going back to what was going on in Jerusalem in the 300s and then on Saturday and then on Sunday.

00:12:07.400 So, you know, the earliest Christians, it wasn't just reading the Bible and remembering Jesus.

00:12:12.680 They were actually living, going through these, these mysteries, as we said, with a group, with their church, with their community through Thursday, Friday, which was a day of strict fasting, no food.

00:12:27.340 Saturday and then on Sunday, the greatest, biggest party that people experienced all year, bigger than Christmas, was always on Paschal Sunday, Easter Sunday.

00:12:37.760 And I think that's the proper way for us to meditate and live these mysteries.

00:12:43.820 Exactly right.

00:12:44.720 Coming back one second here, Dr. Taylor Marshall, Christ's Descent into Hell. 0.94

00:12:51.120 This man has done nothing to deserve death. 0.99

00:13:02.880 So I will have him scourged and let him go.

00:13:06.800 You are obliged to release one man to us at this festival.

00:13:12.020 Release to us Barabbas. 0.97

00:13:14.580 Barabbas.

00:13:15.760 And away with this man.

00:13:19.360 Give us Barabbas.

00:13:26.760 Crucifiyer!

00:13:27.760 Yes! Crucifiyer!

00:13:30.000 Let him go! 1.00

00:13:31.440 You! 0.99

00:13:32.240 You! 0.99

00:13:32.880 Scourge him! 0.98

00:13:33.440 You! 0.99

00:13:36.800 What are you waiting for, Brian?

00:13:46.860 For God's sake!

00:13:50.260 No!

00:13:51.480 No!

00:13:53.020 Jesus!

00:13:54.580 So, everyone knows the movie, The Passion of the Christ.

00:13:58.900 Possibly the most popular Christian film ever made.

00:14:03.000 Clearly one of the most successful financially.

00:14:07.220 And it's also a film that arose a lot of controversy.

00:14:10.960 Not only because of the choice of the spoken language of the dialogue of the actual players

00:14:17.420 in it, the cast, the actors.

00:14:19.380 Not a single word of English is spoken in the film.

00:14:22.140 And there's also an element of the fact that when Mel Gibson made that film, he referred

00:14:29.440 to something called the visions of blessed Catherine Emmerich.

00:14:36.540 And who was Catherine Emmerich?

00:14:38.700 Catherine Emmerich, she was born in 1774 in Germany.

00:14:43.420 She entered a monastery.

00:14:44.620 Um, she was a regular of St. Augustine.

00:14:48.000 She died in 1824.

00:14:49.640 And she had mystical visions.

00:14:52.660 Visions that have never necessarily been ruled on one way or another by the church.

00:14:58.160 But she was, she has been risen up to blessed status.

00:15:02.520 And she wrote a book called The Dolorous Passion of Our Lord Jesus Christ, according to the meditations

00:15:09.580 of blessed Catherine Emmerich in 1833.

00:15:13.260 Now, part one was the passion.

00:15:15.360 Yet part two was called The Descent into Hell, The Harrowing of Hell.

00:15:20.440 And there are some statements, you know, from interviews with Mel and Jim Caviezel that for

00:15:26.300 this rumored sequel to The Passion of the Christ, that it would refer to specifically this,

00:15:32.880 this harrowing of hell, which is an adventure.

00:15:36.420 It's an absolute adventure story.

00:15:38.220 It's a rescue mission, in effect.

00:15:40.920 And I have actually here an excerpt from The Descent, as written, as recounted, I should

00:15:48.440 say, by blessed Catherine Emmerich.

00:15:50.480 I'm going to read that right here.

00:15:53.680 When the angels that were escorting Jesus had knocked down the infernal walls, a storm

00:15:59.580 rose up of curses, insults, shrieks, and laments.

00:16:03.420 Several angels elsewhere chased endless swarms of demons, those who would have then had to

00:16:09.740 recognize and adore the Redeemer.

00:16:12.840 This was their worst torment.

00:16:14.920 Many of them became imprisoned in a sort of sphere, which resulted in many concentric sectors.

00:16:21.380 At the center of the inferno, a dark pit sank, where Lucifer was hurled in chains, and who was

00:16:27.720 immersed in dark, angry vapors.

00:16:30.100 All of this occurred according to the determined divine mysteries.

00:16:34.100 I know that Lucifer will be unchained for some time, 50 or 60 years before the year 2000 of

00:16:41.140 Christ, if I do not err.

00:16:42.880 Some demons instead are to be loosened before that epoch in order to castigate and exterminate

00:16:48.640 the worldly.

00:16:49.760 Some of them were unleashed in our days.

00:16:52.380 Others will be seen.

00:16:54.020 While I deal with this topic, the infernal scenes I saw were so horrific in front of my

00:16:58.280 eyes that the sight of them could even make me die.

00:17:03.980 Dr. Taylor Marshall, what is blessed Catherine Emmerich talking about there?

00:17:08.440 Well, I think it's fascinating that she says that the demons will be released in 50 or 60

00:17:13.700 years before 2000.

00:17:14.920 That says 1940, 1950.

00:17:17.320 We know that beginning in that time, things got real crazy on planet Earth.

00:17:20.620 So I think she's right on on that.

00:17:22.680 And she's describing what the ancient Christians called the harrowing of hell, or what the Apostle

00:17:28.440 Creed calls Christ's descent into hell.

00:17:32.160 And as we mentioned in the previous segment, this is not our Lord Jesus Christ going into hell

00:17:37.120 and suffering damnation or suffering hellfire or anything like that.

00:17:41.260 This is our Lord Jesus Christ descending, as you said, a rescue mission, descending into

00:17:47.500 hell as a victor, as a champion, proclaiming his victory over sin, death, and Satan over

00:17:55.540 Lucifer.

00:17:56.500 And the reason for this is it goes back to Genesis.

00:17:59.440 When Adam and Eve sinned, we all remember what happened.

00:18:02.440 They were cast out of paradise.

00:18:04.720 They were no longer had direct fellowship with God.

00:18:09.680 In the Old Testament, God had Moses, or later on, a temple through David and Solomon, which

00:18:15.900 was kind of, in a way, the place of God's presence.

00:18:18.320 And there was a veil in that temple that separated the people of God and all of mankind from God,

00:18:24.520 from his divine presence.

00:18:26.140 And when Jesus died on the cross, that veil in the temple split from top to bottom.

00:18:31.980 And that signifies that the barrier between humankind and God Almighty has been taken down

00:18:40.640 through the sacrifice, the blood atonement of Jesus Christ as the Passover lamb on the cross.

00:18:47.720 He died and the veil was rent.

00:18:50.000 In our traditional understanding, and in some of these Bible verses that we'll look at,

00:18:54.800 Christ then descends into the underworld, into hell, where he meets all the righteous Old Testament people. 0.69

00:19:03.480 Why?

00:19:04.200 They could not go into paradise.

00:19:06.520 They could not go into heaven until the blood atonement of Jesus Christ, the Passover lamb, 0.83

00:19:12.320 had been paid and established.

00:19:14.480 So Christ goes, he announces his victory to all the demons, they're not redeemed,

00:19:20.000 and he announces it to Adam, Eve, Abraham, Sarah, Isaac, Jacob, David, Isaiah, Enoch, Elijah, everybody.

00:19:30.700 And he says, I have paid the price, I have proclaimed it to you, I'm taking you out of hell,

00:19:37.100 and I'm bringing you to heaven.

00:19:38.940 So some of the Bible verses that talk about this, probably...

00:19:41.480 Real quick, real quick, before we get to verses, you did a video on this where you actually laid out

00:19:47.040 that there are four different layers or sections of hell.

00:19:50.560 And this section that they're in, this is the limbo.

00:19:53.640 This is the limbus section.

00:19:54.860 This is not the section of the cursed, which would be the punishment for the slayer.

00:20:01.440 So this is the idea that the underworld does actually have these various layers to it.

00:20:06.040 Yeah, I mean, the book of Enoch has four chambers hollowed out in the underworld.

00:20:12.460 And St. Thomas Aquinas says there are four sections or regions in the underworld.

00:20:17.140 And we see that Christ teaches that in Luke chapter 16.

00:20:19.820 When Lazarus dies, he goes down to the underworld.

00:20:23.760 And then when the rich man goes down to the underworld, they're both able to talk to one another.

00:20:27.820 But Lazarus is in Abraham's bosom, is what Jesus says.

00:20:31.420 That's right.

00:20:32.360 And the rich man is in fire.

00:20:34.340 So they're both in the underworld, but Lazarus is in a pleasant place that has water and it's nice,

00:20:40.340 even though he's righteous.

00:20:41.480 And then the sinful rich man is also in hell, but he is on fire.

00:20:45.740 So this shows us that before the time of Christ, there were sections in hell.

00:20:50.020 So the Old Testament people were in what we call limbo, limbus, which is Latin for the edge,

00:20:56.120 the very outer rim of hell.

00:20:57.800 And they were not suffering.

00:20:59.280 They were just waiting in limbo.

00:21:00.960 That's where the phrase comes from.

00:21:02.460 Waiting in limbo for Jesus to come and pay the price.

00:21:05.140 And when he pays the price, they're out of there.

00:21:07.620 So that distinction is already in the teaching of Christ in Luke chapter 16.

00:21:11.960 You can go read Luke 16, verse 22.

00:21:14.580 There's distinctions in hell, Christ teaching.

00:21:17.900 And then later we hear St. Peter.

00:21:21.060 So St. Peter says in 1 Peter 3, 19, Christ coming in spirit preached to those spirits that

00:21:27.880 were in prison, which had sometime been incredulous.

00:21:32.840 And St. Athanasius, the church father says, by this, when Christ was laid in the sepulcher,

00:21:37.320 he went to preach to those spirits who were in bondage, as Peter said.

00:21:41.780 So Christ dies in his, he has a body.

00:21:44.960 He's fully God, by the way, and he's fully man.

00:21:47.440 So he has a body and a soul.

00:21:48.760 His body's laid in the sepulcher.

00:21:51.040 His soul descends to the dead and announces this divine salvation that's been achieved.

00:21:57.920 So that now the people in the Old Testament, from Adam all the way up to the man who died

00:22:03.240 on the cross next to Christ, today you'll be with me in paradise.

00:22:06.400 That's how we solve that mystery.

00:22:08.760 There's actually a section in Catherine Emmerich where she says that Christ sees the souls of

00:22:16.580 both thieves, one headed towards the bosom, carried by the angels, and then another being

00:22:22.520 carried by demons down into the depths.

00:22:27.920 Who is it that you say you are?

00:22:37.360 Who are those you call your disciples?

00:22:44.640 It is said by many you can perform signs.

00:22:54.600 Do something for me.

00:22:57.920 My lord, he has been corrupting all the people.

00:23:02.800 He calls himself the king.

00:23:06.260 This man?

00:23:07.780 A king?

00:23:08.600 A king?

00:23:18.020 Your majesty.

00:23:22.560 Mark him well.

00:23:27.920 Send him back to Pilate.

00:23:31.640 This is his province.

00:23:36.300 And that's it right there.

00:23:38.620 So Anne-Catholic Emmerich is describing what the New Testament teaches.

00:23:44.400 For example, also in Ephesians, St. Paul says, Ephesians 4.9, now that he ascended, what is it?

00:23:51.220 Because he also first descended into the lower parts of the earth.

00:23:54.740 So it's not just that Christ ascended to the right hand of the Father.

00:23:58.900 We also know that he descended not just to earth, but into the lower regions to proclaim salvation for the good thief on the cross.

00:24:06.700 But for the evil thief on the cross that did not repent and asked for salvation from Jesus, he went into the fires of torment.

00:24:13.600 And that's really the binary decision that we have to make in our lives.

00:24:18.320 And I think especially at Easter time, do we believe, love, and serve Jesus?

00:24:23.680 Or do we believe, love, and serve ourselves?

00:24:27.160 Because there's two trajectories.

00:24:29.300 One to paradise.

00:24:31.600 One to the fires.

00:24:32.860 One piece of this that it mentions in Catherine Emmerich, and I'm pulling up the section right here, and it's so brief, but even beyond me and me having watched your video on this and then read more about it, and even in the Eastern Church, and this is something that Tanya showed me, they have icons that depict the harrowing of hell.

00:24:59.820 And it always shows Christ going to, and he goes to the earliest parents of all of us, the earliest father and the earliest mother, and that's Adam and Eve.

00:25:10.580 And then raising up Adam and Eve, and that it's this incredible icon that you always see in the Eastern Church of Christ descending and then bringing them first into heaven.

00:25:19.780 And that it, but beyond that, and of course the demons have to, of course, obey Christ because he's still their creator as well.

00:25:28.640 So that when they see him, that when the angels bring him before, so he's, he's really rescuing all these people who have been waiting in Abraham's bosom.

00:25:36.280 But there's another line that says, when the gates were swung open by the angels, one beheld before him a struggling, blaspheming, mocking, howling, and lamenting throng.

00:25:51.900 I saw that Jesus spoke some words to the soul of Judas, words to the soul of Judas.

00:26:01.340 And he's not mentioned anywhere else in these writings.

00:26:04.540 And what, and I, you know, see if, see if Mel Gibson addresses this in the film, if he's, if he's going to depict all of this, but I've just been racking my mind for at least a year since I first read this.

00:26:19.600 What did Christ say to Judas when he descended into hell?

00:26:26.240 Imagine that conversation.

00:26:27.780 I can't even, I can't even begin to think about it.

00:26:31.140 Yeah.

00:26:32.500 And, you know, Judas could have been redeemed.

00:26:34.780 Judas could have ran to the cross while Christ was still on the cross and fallen on his knees and wept and say, forgive me.

00:26:42.280 And what would Jesus have done?

00:26:43.740 He would have said, you are forgiven.

00:26:45.720 You are forgiven.

00:26:46.800 It's not that Judas was predestined to go to hell.

00:26:49.340 Judas had her free will. 0.63

00:26:50.240 Even after he betrayed Jesus, he could have ran to the foot of the cross and been perfectly forgiven, just like the thief on the cross.

00:26:57.220 But instead, he did not repent and he killed himself and he went into the fires of hell.

00:27:04.000 And yeah, it's, it's very tragic.

00:27:07.400 It's, it's heavy.

00:27:08.100 It's, it's, it's one of the most heavy things I think I've ever, I've ever considered.

00:27:12.220 But, but let me ask you about that because there is a theological question there as well.

00:27:16.120 Certainly we know that Judas returns to, uh, the Pharisees. 0.70

00:27:21.200 He throws the 30 pieces at them.

00:27:23.200 He says he's changed his mind.

00:27:24.980 So it, it seems like he's repenting for the betrayal.

00:27:29.140 And yet he then goes, he kills himself.

00:27:31.840 It becomes the potter's field, the field of blood.

00:27:34.280 Uh, walk me through that because it's, it's confusing for on a theological question that I think for some, maybe, um, that, that Judas seems to acknowledge his sin.

00:27:46.120 He believes in Christ.

00:27:47.940 Obviously he affirms his belief that Christ is the Messiah, even affirms it before the, uh, the, the elders, right?

00:27:55.720 Before the elders.

00:27:56.820 And yet he still ends up in hell.

00:27:58.920 Well, how can that be?

00:28:00.780 Well, theologically we have to distinguish between regret and repentance.

00:28:07.220 They're two different things.

00:28:08.360 You know, if, if, uh, I do a crime and I get caught and I go to prison, I can say, man, I really regret doing that.

00:28:13.940 But repentance is regret, but it's coupled with an orientation towards God.

00:28:20.720 I regret doing that.

00:28:23.440 And I want to be forgiven and I want to have fellowship with God and a, and a bond of love and charity with God and by extension to your neighbor.

00:28:32.160 And I think what we see in Judas is we see a regret.

00:28:36.100 I think he knows he's betrayed innocent blood.

00:28:38.520 That's why he returns the money, but he doesn't turn himself to Jesus Christ, which was an option.

00:28:45.460 And remember you've been to Golgotha, Jack.

00:28:47.920 I mean, it's not that far out of the city.

00:28:50.560 I mean, it's, yeah, I mean, it's, it's, it's even now.

00:28:54.740 Yeah.

00:28:55.300 So, so Judas only had to walk a couple minutes and he would have been at Golgotha and he could have knelt down next, next to the board Virgin Mary and Mary Magdalene and St. John and said, I'm so sorry, forgive me.

00:29:07.720 And he would be forgiven.

00:29:09.040 But instead he, he committed the sin of despair and the sin of despair.

00:29:13.840 Some people struggle with this, but you need to know that God's mercy is eternal.

00:29:18.680 Despair is the idea that my sin is so evil.

00:29:21.280 God can never forgive me.

00:29:22.880 And it's actually a form of pride because you're thinking I can create sins that God can't forgive.

00:29:28.580 And that is despair.

00:29:30.300 And I think Judas did despair because he took his own life and he did not have the consolation of repentance.

00:29:37.880 He had regret and despair.

00:29:39.660 And so that leads him to that place because, because yet aren't there people who say though, that if you, if you admit that you've committed a sin and if you believe in Christ, that's all you need, right?

00:29:51.140 Isn't that, that's the formula, right?

00:29:53.620 Well, we, we believe in faith formed by love.

00:29:57.600 You know, if you love me, keep my commandments.

00:29:59.640 So there has to be some kind of love for God.

00:30:03.520 You're not going to go to heaven without love for God. 0.84

00:30:06.720 That's ludicrous.

00:30:07.740 So the soul has to have grace in the soul and must have love for God through Jesus Christ.

00:30:15.080 And so if, even if you regret, even if you're, man, I shouldn't have done that.

00:30:19.960 Oh my, I'm so, I'm despairing and all that, but you don't have love for God, or in this case, love for Jesus Christ, who you've condemned to death.

00:30:29.160 You can't go to heaven.

00:30:30.900 There's, there's, there's no, there's no way to be in communion with God for eternity.

00:30:34.800 If there is no connection of love between a person and God.

00:30:41.160 So that, that's really the key is, is love is, I mean, God is love.

00:30:45.660 We read in first John, he's God is charity.

00:30:48.200 So if there is no love, there is no repentance.

00:30:51.660 There is no faith.

00:30:52.740 There is no salvation.

00:30:54.600 And Judas, I mean, Christ himself says it would be the one who betrayed him.

00:30:58.940 It would be better for if he had never been born.

00:31:01.380 That's right.

00:31:02.280 He says that about Judas.

00:31:03.500 I mean, that, that's a hard thing to say, especially when you're the second person of the Holy Trinity and you say it's better that that person was never born.

00:31:12.620 That means Judas has a eternal punishment waiting for him as, as not good.

00:31:18.100 We, uh, uh, you know, funny enough is of all the things that, um, you know, people ask me and I know you and I chatted about this the last time I was on your show that, uh, they said, Hey, didn't you have dinner with president Trump recently?

00:31:30.300 And, uh, what did you talk about?

00:31:32.100 And we did that Trump keto thing, uh, which seems to be working for him by the way.

00:31:36.600 Um, that, uh, one of the things that believe it or not, and I'm just going to say, I don't even know, I don't even think I've said this publicly yet, but one of the things that I spoke about with president Trump while we were at dinner, I kid you not.

00:31:50.660 That was the layers of health.

00:31:53.440 Really?

00:31:54.660 You and Donald Trump had a layers of hell discussion.

00:31:59.020 So I brought it up because through the, I've, I use Dante to bring it up.

00:32:03.840 Basically I use Dante's description because of course this is probably, I think the most popularly known description of the circles of hell, uh, obviously a little bit different.

00:32:14.160 And his is, uh, nine, I think in total nine and, uh, in the, in the classic, but there's certainly parallels to what we see.

00:32:21.760 And he's, he's sort of riffing off of, of what we see there.

00:32:25.900 And I mentioned something to president Trump that, uh, the lowest circle of hell in Dante's telling is, so this, I I'm, I'm guessing that in this section, you know, he's, he's referring to the layers of the damned.

00:32:39.900 So this is the final section of hell when you have been accursed, when you've been sentenced, that even within that final section of the accursed, there are these other nine circles.

00:32:49.400 And this is Dante.

00:32:50.120 This is not, you know, this is from, uh, from Bible, but it's, it's instructive, I think.

00:32:54.540 And so Dante Dante is like Christian fan fiction, right? 0.60

00:32:58.640 It's, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's instructive.

00:33:00.660 I'll put it that way.

00:33:01.540 It's insightful.

00:33:02.800 It's insightful.

00:33:03.620 Certainly that the lowest circle to Dante is treachery.

00:33:08.380 The very lowest circle is treachery.

00:33:11.460 A man who betrays his friends.

00:33:14.700 And even in that there are, there's a further sub layer.

00:33:19.820 And one of the lowest sub layers of there is the Judasian layer, which is actually for Judas for not only a man who betrays his friend, but for a man who betrays his Lord.

00:33:35.000 And that's, you know, who's in there is Brutus, Cassius, and Judas.

00:33:40.260 They're all in there together.

00:33:42.420 And then the only layer they're actually in, uh, Lucifer has three faces, three heads. 0.79

00:33:48.400 And those three men are being chewed in the mouths of Satan.

00:33:53.360 And, and, and, and Judas is right in the middle being chewed.

00:33:57.600 Think about that.

00:33:58.280 You're being, you're basically Satan's bubble gum for eternity.

00:34:02.760 That's that's our headline.

00:34:03.940 We just got, we just got our, our show title producer, Angelo, Satan's bubble gum, um, came here to talk about the harrowing of hell and chew Judas.

00:34:10.720 Cause yeah, but so, so, and then the final, of course, no, it's not even a layer, but it's just within that final layer is the center of that layer.

00:34:20.260 And that is Satan's cage.

00:34:22.880 That is where Satan himself is imprisoned for the ultimate sin of treachery, treachery against the Lord.

00:34:31.680 And what's interesting is Dante places Satan as in the very center of the earth, but at the very center, it's ice.

00:34:41.640 It's cold.

00:34:42.500 It's cold.

00:34:43.360 And why is that?

00:34:44.500 It's because there is no love.

00:34:46.640 There is no warmth.

00:34:48.280 There is no charity.

00:34:49.980 It is deadly cold.

00:34:52.620 And that's actually pretty appropriate.

00:34:54.200 When you think about that, Satan is so far removed from God that he's in a frozen brick of ice.

00:35:01.400 Presumably.

00:35:03.100 And, uh, you know, that's, if you rebel against God, if you hate God, if you hate your neighbor, um, you begin, you begin to become cold, frozen.

00:35:14.500 You lose the warmth.

00:35:16.420 You, you, you lose life.

00:35:18.420 And that's one of the great things about Pascha, about Easter is, you know, things are becoming warm.

00:35:23.640 You know, we, our trees are all blooming, the flowers in front of the house, everything is coming alive.

00:35:29.100 It's getting warm.

00:35:30.600 Even the word lent means lengthen the days lengthen and things get warmer.

00:35:35.540 And, and that's sort of this, this whole idea of in the fullness of time, Jesus, who is the love of God, who is the word of God.

00:35:43.840 He comes, he offers himself as a sacrifice.

00:35:47.720 He didn't have to do this.

00:35:49.180 He offers himself as a Passover sacrifice and sheds out all of his blood so that he can redeem sinners, people who have rebelled against him.

00:35:59.200 And he gives him this chance, uh, to come back a second chance to love God.

00:36:03.920 And then even the people who died before him, like Adam and Eve and everyone, he even goes to them and redeems them and descend into hell.

00:36:12.580 So the whole thing is, is, is quite beautiful.

00:36:15.440 And there's the contrast between the people in, in Abraham's bosom or in limbo who did have love for God, like Adam, Eve, Isaiah, Elijah, you know, Esther, they have the love, the charity of God in them.

00:36:32.060 And they are ascending to heaven with Christ, but all those evil demons, and like you mentioned, Jack, Judas, they're left behind.

00:36:42.900 They're left behind.

00:36:43.720 It's a rescue mission, but, but Christ will not rescue if you did not love.

00:36:48.080 And if you did not have grace, if you are a betrayer and Satan is the ultimate angelic betrayer and Judas is the ultimate human betrayer.

00:36:55.600 And they're at the very, very bottom in the cold, frozen.

00:37:02.060 Peace be with you.

00:37:20.360 Why are you troubled?

00:37:23.680 Why are these doubts coming up in your minds?

00:37:25.960 Look at my hands and my feet and see that it is I myself.

00:37:34.380 Feel me and you will know.

00:37:38.380 For a spirit has not flesh and bones, as you see I have.

00:37:42.660 These are the very things I spoke to you about while I was still with you.

00:37:45.720 That everything written about me in the law of Moses and the writings of the prophets and the Psalms had to come true.

00:37:53.700 This is what is written.

00:37:56.140 The Messiah must suffer and rise from the dead on the third day. 0.77

00:38:01.080 And in his name, the message of repentance and the forgiveness of sins must be preached to all nations, beginning in Jerusalem.

00:38:08.900 You are witnesses of these things.

00:38:13.580 And I myself bring the promise of my father upon you.

00:38:17.040 But you must wait in the city until the power from above comes down upon you.

00:38:21.380 And I think that's interesting, too, because you look at cynicism in the world today, and particularly you see this among the younger generation that's coming up now for Zoomers and so many people.

00:38:35.640 It's this idea that if you're not cynical, if you don't have this cynical aloofness to anything, if you're serious, if you're earnest, if you want to have an actual relationship, like if you want to have a relationship with a girl, well, okay, now you're a simp.

00:38:49.100 And if you're serious about something, oh, you're cringe.

00:38:52.120 Or if you try to do something out and then you're an incel, and there's all these different words.

00:38:57.900 So you have to be, you know, you just have to be sarcastic and cynical and disconnected from everything and pretend you're above everything and you're just sort of providing this running commentary to life.

00:39:09.700 Last time I checked, that's not actually living, is it?

00:39:12.880 No, it's death.

00:39:14.440 It's death.

00:39:15.160 And the ultimate form of life is given to us by the Lord Jesus Christ.

00:39:20.360 He came to die.

00:39:22.440 You know, God so loved the world, he gave his only begotten son.

00:39:25.940 He came to die.

00:39:27.020 And I think anyone who has lived a full life and people that we admire as heroes, they're the people who sacrificed, whether that's your grandparent, your parent, a spouse.

00:39:39.100 Jack, you and I are both, we have kids.

00:39:41.520 That's a life of suffering and there's great joy.

00:39:44.600 I mean, it's fantastic.

00:39:45.540 But there's also suffering and sacrifice for the parents.

00:39:49.580 And this is the key to joy.

00:39:54.400 I didn't say happiness.

00:39:55.160 I said joy.

00:39:55.900 This is the key to joyfulness in this life is decreasing yourself so that other people can increase.

00:40:04.600 And this is why I'm a Christian.

00:40:06.080 This is why I'm a follower of Jesus Christ.

00:40:07.840 I have realized through grace that being a disciple of Jesus Christ and taking up your cross daily means, yes, I do have to humble myself and deny myself.

00:40:18.180 But to the extent that I do that in Christ's grace is to the extent that I find meaning, purpose, fulfillment, joy, and ultimately salvation in the next life.

00:40:28.760 And if we can all live that way, we all know the world would be a better place.

00:40:33.420 We all know that.

00:40:34.460 But we're tempted to be cynical.

00:40:36.060 We're tempted to be cold.

00:40:37.160 We're tempted to isolate ourselves from one another.

00:40:39.920 And Christ says, don't do that.

00:40:42.580 He comes from heaven as the son of God and enters into space, time, earth, through the womb of a blessed Virgin Mary and comes to live amongst us.

00:40:53.300 And we are far from perfect.

00:40:54.780 And if he did that, we can do that with other people.

00:40:56.600 We can enter into life and community and into suffering and into fellowship, even though it hurts and even though it's hard.

00:41:03.880 And that ultimately is joyfulness, not happiness, joyfulness.

00:41:07.880 And that's really the message, I think, of the resurrection.

00:41:10.680 And it's always the message of the resurrection that that comes through the sacrifice.

00:41:15.200 And he's not asking us to make those kind of sacrifices because he's already done it.

00:41:19.680 And I think that on this Easter is a message that we should all remember, is that you can only achieve those things through putting everything in, through going through the sacrifice, through walking through that fire in order to attain the ultimate joy.

00:41:41.100 Yes.

00:41:41.520 And even in our tradition, I mean, Good Friday is a day of no food.

00:41:46.100 Easter is the day of all food.

00:41:48.520 Right.

00:41:49.080 And the whole idea, we talked about this before, Easter baskets, the whole idea is you just spent 40 days in Lent not enjoying the food that you like.

00:41:58.760 And what happened is, is people would then put everything in a basket, decorate it, bring it to church.

00:42:03.460 The priest would bless that basket.

00:42:05.220 And on Sunday, you would be like, look what's in our basket.

00:42:07.760 We got meat.

00:42:08.620 We got cheese.

00:42:09.600 We got eggs.

00:42:10.400 We got pies.

00:42:11.280 We got wine.

00:42:12.120 We got whiskey.

00:42:12.860 We got everything that we haven't enjoyed.

00:42:14.720 There's a whole idea built into Lent and Easter.

00:42:17.340 I'm going to sacrifice and say no to myself because there's a greater good in the future.

00:42:24.440 But wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, wait.

00:42:28.040 I was told that Easter eggs, it's all pagan and the bunnies and that's just a pagan tradition that has nothing to do.

00:42:35.620 What are you coming on here, you know, spouting this pagan nonsense or we're going to have to delete this.

00:42:41.460 Can you explain your actions, sir? 0.59

00:42:43.200 Yes, okay.

00:42:45.600 Traditionally, Catholics and Eastern Orthodox do not eat meat or eggs during Lent.

00:42:53.760 So for 46 days in the West and even longer for the Eastern Christians, they don't eat meat or eggs, animal products.

00:43:01.560 So what that means is on Easter, you really want to eat some protein.

00:43:04.660 And for most people who were poor in Europe and in the Mediterranean area, they ate eggs and they ate rabbit.

00:43:15.320 I was just talking to a French friend last night about it.

00:43:17.460 I said, isn't it the case in France?

00:43:19.380 He goes, yeah, poor people don't have T-bone steaks and ribeyes and New York strips.

00:43:25.000 Poor people can barely afford even pigs in history, ham. 0.93

00:43:29.080 So they would eat rabbits.

00:43:30.800 And so most people on Easter Sunday were breaking the fast of 40 days and they were eating the protein that they had.

00:43:38.560 And they looked forward to eating their rabbit dinner and eating those eggs.

00:43:42.380 They even, we talked about it last year, Jack, they even painted the eggs as they get like, look, you get to eat protein after 46 days.

00:43:49.320 And you're like, man, I am so happy.

00:43:50.900 Well, that's a good, that's a, that's a good answer, by the way, to, for, um, or good, a good trick question, I think, for people to try to put the, try the, try tie the tradition together.

00:44:01.020 Because here in the West, we don't necessarily own chickens that much anymore.

00:44:05.120 But if you're from an area that you actually know how that works and how chickens work, um, you know, correct me if I'm wrong, but do chickens stop laying eggs just because it's lent?

00:44:14.860 Do they know?

00:44:15.780 So you have, you've got eggs that are piling up around the house and you've got all these eggs that are being, you know, not eaten.

00:44:20.540 But you know, you're going to eat them.

00:44:22.300 So what do you do with them?

00:44:23.120 Yep.

00:44:24.040 There you go.

00:44:24.820 You got eggs on Easter.

00:44:26.220 Uh, and it's a cheap, plentiful form of fat, protein, and calories.

00:44:31.340 And, you know, I think when people forgot about Lent and stopped practicing Lent and they're like, what's the deal about Easter bunnies and eggs?

00:44:38.580 They forgot that there's this ancient penitential practice that Christians have been doing since the 200s, right? 1.00

00:44:45.280 It's not medieval.

00:44:46.840 This is ancient Christianity of people denying themselves fasting. 0.91

00:44:50.180 And again, this is the whole idea.

00:44:53.000 I say no to my own appetites, to my own flesh, and I say yes to Christ.

00:44:59.160 And to the extent that we learn to do that in this life is the extent to which we become holy.

00:45:05.380 We become saints.

00:45:06.580 And ultimately, Jesus died on the cross, not just to get us into heaven, true, but he wants us to be conformed to his image.

00:45:15.560 He wants us to become godly.

00:45:17.060 He wants us to become holy.

00:45:19.260 He wants us to become loving and sacrificial.

00:45:21.960 And that's why we were placed on earth.

00:45:24.400 And that's what we've got to teach our children in the next generation.

00:45:26.940 I can't think of a better way to close out an Easter special with that message.

00:45:34.520 It's about Christ, but it's also about the Christ's message for us, for our families, for those of us who are looking to start families.

00:45:45.040 Dr. Taylor Marshall, always a pleasure.

00:45:47.240 Please go follow her, Dr. Taylor Marshall.

00:45:49.640 Any other places that you want to promote before you sign off, sir?

00:45:53.140 Yeah, check me out on YouTube.

00:45:54.500 That's the main place, Dr. Taylor Marshall on YouTube and on Twitter and all those places.

00:46:00.060 You know, it's actually interesting.

00:46:01.300 Somehow your show is getting better.

00:46:03.400 It's actually, you've been doing it for years, but I found that just in the last couple months, it's somehow, how does this guy keep getting better?

00:46:08.740 I don't get it.

00:46:09.320 Oh, thanks.

00:46:10.120 Thanks.

00:46:10.460 Yeah, just writing scripts and trying to record good content.

00:46:13.800 Amazing.

00:46:15.620 You know, in movies like The Jesus Film, The Ten Commandments, Ben-Hur, these used to just be part of American culture and growing up, even as late as the 1980s, even the early 90s, even elementary school, public schools would show these films.

00:46:38.740 We would tell the story of Easter.

00:46:41.260 It was always there.

00:46:42.140 It was always a part of life.

00:46:43.800 And yet that's been taken away.

00:46:45.940 The story of Easter, the story of Christ, the greatest story ever told has been systematically removed from our culture.

00:46:56.440 And why?

00:46:57.420 So they can replace it with cynicism, with commercialism, with Marvel and Disney and Star Wars.

00:47:05.260 They've been seeking to replace Christ. 0.70

00:47:09.440 Seeking to replace this as the centerpiece of Western civilization as it's been for hundreds of years.

00:47:19.320 Well, I say, it's time to say, we want a restoration of it.

00:47:28.240 Bring back Easter.

00:47:30.200 Bring back the resurrection.

00:47:32.660 Bring back God.

00:47:34.660 Bring back God.

00:47:35.300 From my family, from the Human Events family, to all of yours, happy Easter.

00:47:41.160 Ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission to lay ashore.

00:47:52.420 Let's do it.

00:47:52.520 Let's do it.

00:47:53.000 Let's do it.

00:47:53.620 Let's do it.

00:48:04.500 Let's do it.

00:48:06.160 Let's do it.

Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - April 09, 2023

EASTER SUNDAY SPECIAL： CHRIST'S DESCENT INTO HELL & DEFEAT OVER SATAN

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