Would soy boys ever have discovered the new world, or do you need someone who s a high testosterone explorer and seafarer like Christopher Columbus? Libby Edmonds sits down with me for a discussion about the truth about Columbus Day.
00:02:56.760And so, to help me get into all of this, because we are going to get into all of this,
00:03:01.860I thought, who better than to join me on this is an Italian herself, by the way, the great Libby Emmons, the editor-in-chief of the Postmillennial.
00:03:10.240Libby, thank you so much for joining us today.
00:03:42.720They have so many reasons that they want to target Columbus, not the least of which is that they want us to hate ourselves and they want us to hate our nation.
00:03:49.820But they target Columbus because he was a white man who took it upon himself to sail across the sea in an attempt to spread Christianity and find a way for Europe to trade with the Far East without having to cross the Middle East, which was rather treacherous since the Islamic groups there were trying to invade Europe and kill everyone who tried to get to China.
00:04:16.600So, yeah, so they hate Columbus, white man, Christian, came to the new world.
00:04:23.120They like to say that you can't discover something that was already here.
00:04:26.340And they make the claim that he intentionally destroyed Native populations who were innocent and harmless and doing nothing but dancing among the flowers and frolicking in the waves.
00:04:39.280Well, right. And I think there's a lot to to focus on there, because I remember and just going back a few years.
00:04:49.300So when I was in grade school in the 90s and we had the 500th anniversary of 1492 to 1992 and it was a huge deal and none of this was around.
00:05:27.960He estimated based on just these, you know, you go through some of the old research that there's you know, there were bodies that would wash up in certain places that, you know, didn't appear to be African or European.
00:05:40.120They weren't really sure what was going on.
00:05:42.860There were, you know, pot pottery and different pieces that they would collect on various islands, like in the Canary Islands, for example.
00:05:49.360And so they had they had this idea that there was something to something to the West, but they weren't entirely sure what that was.
00:05:57.820And Columbus originally and to your point.
00:06:00.280So at this at this point in time, it was the caliphate.
00:06:03.560The caliphate and the Ottomans have now basically swept all of the Middle East.
00:06:10.580They've shut down the overland trade routes or made it so incredibly impossible to traverse for any of the European empires.
00:06:20.340This is the previous Silk Road that and obviously very hostile towards Christians in general.
00:06:25.160You also have only a few years prior to 1492 what the fall of Constantinople.
00:06:31.820So the fall of Constantinople plays in a huge part into Columbus's prayers for Christians across all of Europe.
00:06:39.680And one of the things that actually everyone knows he eventually made it.
00:06:43.140He's Italian, of course, but he wasn't flying under the flag of Italy.
00:06:46.200He was flying under the flag of Spain because he went to the two Catholic monarchs, Ferdinand and Isabella.
00:06:51.260And one of the specific things that he mentioned was I want to go find gold because I want to finance and use this gold to finance a new crusade to liberate the church of the Holy Sepulcher in Jerusalem.
00:07:05.960And so religion actually does play a major part, not only in his interest in wanting to sail, but also in the ideas that led to them actually funding the entire thing.
00:07:17.640So, and of course, none of this is to, you know, and of course people say, oh, you're just, you know, an apologist or apologist or this or that.
00:07:51.520And the people will talk about, oh, well, the Vikings had had their, you know, their settlement and Vinland and this and that.
00:07:57.400OK, yeah, but that was wiped out hundreds of years before this and nobody knew about it.
00:08:02.300So they kind of kept it to themselves.
00:08:04.100So when we talk about discovery, we mean discovery in the sense of this is what brought Western civilization to the American continent, which is just a fact.
00:09:14.480And actually, the fact that Columbus was kind of an amateur, he's an autodict that would be the proper term, just self-taught, not a professional sailor, certainly not a member of any of the navies.
00:09:24.480And this was something, by the way, speaking of which the in the current United States Navy, they're actually starting to teach celestial navigation again because they've realized that we've completely become reliant on GPS for for surface transit.
00:09:41.640And then noticing that, hey, by the way, the CCP and the Russians and numerous other potential adversaries have the ability to take out our GPS or neutralize our ability to connect to GPS.
00:09:52.820We could be dead in the water and we've forgotten how to do celestial navigation.
00:09:58.340We've forgotten how to do dead reckoning.
00:10:01.140We've forgotten so many different things.
00:10:02.760Now, believe it or not, in the submarine service, that's it.
00:10:06.360There is still a little bit more of that going on.
00:10:08.540Obviously, you can't use celestial navigation, but you also can't use GPS when you're underwater because radio does not travel underwater.
00:10:17.640And and so you are still doing a much more rudimentary form of navigation when you're underwater like that.
00:10:25.020And so in the submarine core, we do have some of this.
00:10:26.980But for our surface core, it's something that's coming back because we've recognized this as a Navy, that this is a strategic vulnerability, that if we find ourselves in one of these conflicts, we have to be able to do this stuff.
00:11:13.140And he made up and it's this incredible moment in his journey, his journals, where he says that he gave them three days and the same three days that we find in the New Testament, in the Gospels, that if if we do not have land sighted on the third day, then we will turn back.
00:11:28.920And he made this bargain with the crew because they were ready to throw him overboard.
00:11:34.120And lo and behold, he did discover land on that third day by the grace of God.
00:11:41.560And I think we were talking about this before.
00:11:43.980He was saying that they could do whatever they wanted with them if they didn't if they didn't find land.
00:11:48.440And I find it really inspiring, too, that he thought that it was his responsibility and his mission to spread Christianity.
00:11:55.680I think that's something that we forget now in our hatred of ourselves and our sort of overwhelming displeasure with Christianity that we feel in our in our mainstream culture these days.
00:12:08.280We forget that it is it is it behooves Christians to spread Christianity around the globe.
00:12:21.980The lunar cathedrals that we've got about a minute left in the segment.
00:12:24.880But before we go, I found out something on Twitter recently when I when I said, you know, that the District of Columbia is named after Columbus.
00:12:32.400There were people who don't actually know that there are people who don't know.
00:12:36.080So the District of Columbia is based on Columbus.
00:12:38.000The country was almost given the name Columbia.
00:12:41.040British Columbia is based on Columbus.
00:12:42.860The country of Columbia in South America is named after Columbus.
00:13:28.040But when we come back, I want to get into these the so-called atrocities of Columbus and the investigations of Columbus, the arrest of Columbus and find out what was really going on with all that, who led those investigations, who wrote those reports.
00:13:45.900And reveal the fact that it was actually Columbus's main political rival within the imperial Spanish that wrote all that.
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00:16:13.200And, you know, the only person who can really be in charge here in Hispaniola is me, Francisco de Bobadilla, because I'm not like Columbus.
00:16:21.480So all I would say is to anybody who's reading this document and using this one document as the end-all be-all with Columbus, just understand the provenance of that document is about as good as the Steele dossier that we saw in 2016 or possibly worse, because, of course, there was no way really to corroborate anything that was going on.
00:16:43.120Remember, this is 500 years ago, and the king and queen are kind of wondering, hey, you know, we sent this guy over.
00:16:52.760And Columbus actually wrote in one of his final letters—I'm going to read it here.
00:16:56.820The letter was called La Terra Rarissima, and he wrote, let those who are fond of blaming and finding fault while they sit safely at home ask, why did you not do thus and so?
00:17:24.060So Columbus's point was, look, I was the one who went and did all this stuff, too.
00:17:29.140And then you guys come in, and you depose me, you arrest me, you imprison me, and all these different things.
00:17:34.520Well, you would never have had any of that if it wasn't for me undertaking the voyage.
00:17:38.520Brother, he almost didn't even make it back.
00:17:40.620Could you imagine if he had crashed on the way back, which they almost did, and it was only because of their navigation and their prowess that they were able to survive and make it back with all of this information?
00:17:54.240Somebody may have found it later, but who knows what the actual history would have been.
00:17:57.620But, Libby, I wanted to talk about something else.
00:18:00.780And this is the fact that, of course, when we hear about Columbus, it's not just about the Bobadier dossier, right?
00:18:06.640It's also because of the genocide and the atrocities and warfare.
00:18:10.940Because, to your point, you know, they say the Native Americans, both in North and South America, were just frolicking and living freely with nature.
00:18:20.740Is that really what it was like in the old world before the arrival of the white man?
00:18:25.260No, you will be shocked to learn that the ancient indigenous people were very much human beings, just like the rest of us, prey to all kinds of bad ideas.
00:18:37.960Because the Taino people who inhabited the Bahamas were slaveholders as well.
00:18:44.540They participated in slavery prior to the arrival of Columbus.
00:18:50.440They were burning down forests to create the ability to grow food and things like that.
00:18:57.140So, no, they were not just living in harmony with nature.
00:19:00.760It was a survival of the fittest, just like it is in all of the other time periods, except perhaps now when we have masses of luxury in this country for pretty much everybody, at least on a certain level.
00:19:16.100This is an infantilizing idea that the ancients were not engaged in warfare, were not engaged in cruelty.
00:19:24.480We've seen also across the world, indigenous ancient peoples who engaged in intensive barbarisms, murders, child sacrifices, eating babies, all of these kinds of things that we've seen.
00:19:37.800And there's, you know, saying that these ancient people did nothing but live in some sort of perfect utopia is not only a lie, but it also defames their memory.
00:19:55.660So, people, I think, I think people generally have heard of the child sacrifices that went on in the Aztec Empire that went on.
00:20:03.120I mean, imagine what Cortez found when he arrived in Mexico.
00:20:06.640And by the way, there's a reason that so many of the other tribes of Mexico joined with the Spanish to fight against the Aztecs and to overthrow them because they were sick of having to sacrifice their firstborn children to these pagan gods.
00:20:53.000And when you talk about it, the one that I always get into and I think is such a fascinating rabbit hole that people don't even know that it wasn't just the Incas and the Aztecs, the Peruvians.
00:21:03.640It was you can go to the Mississippians, East St. Louis, right on the banks of the Mississippi River, just across from St. Louis and Missouri.
00:21:13.420There is an there's an area called Cahokia and Cahokia was in 1000 AD, a city of something like thirty five thousand people.
00:21:22.880So that's a Native American city that was larger than London, larger than Paris at the same time.
00:21:28.920And if you go there to this day, right in Illinois, you can go to Mound 72, which used to be part of a system of pyramids.
00:21:37.600It was a complex of pyramids and they practiced ritualistic infant murder, child murder, all the way up to teenage girls that they thought that they had to kill in service to their pagan gods, so that they would have plentiful crops, plentiful harvest.
00:21:53.540This was going on within the confines of the present day United States of America in ancient times.
00:22:00.220That's and we have evidence of this going on just a few hundred years before Columbus arrives in the new world, which became the new world.
00:22:08.100And so for folks trying to think that, you know, this this sort of stuff only happened with the arrival of the Europeans is ridiculous.
00:22:16.060And the other one they get into, of course, is the well, the old war, the old world diseases, malaria, smallpox.
00:22:23.080Well, that's right. There were there was disease in the ancient world.
00:22:25.360The bubonic plague and the Black Death had just wiped out something like 50 percent of Europe's population because when it swept in from China, it was it was absolutely devastating.
00:22:34.560And that's as horrible as it is. I don't think that it was, you know, certainly not intentional in any way.
00:22:41.560No, I of course it wasn't intentional. The diseases were not intentional.
00:22:45.420Europeans suffered from diseases as well.
00:22:47.760And I think also when you think about the ideas that Columbus was trying to spread among them were the story of Abraham and Isaac and God making the covenant with Abraham,
00:22:58.280saying that we don't need to do child sacrifice anymore. That's not going to be part of our religion anymore, which is such a beautiful and outstanding story in the Old Testament.
00:23:10.000And that's part of our Christian faith. We do not have to sacrifice our children on the altar to any God and not to the you know, not to our God for sure.
00:23:19.240He doesn't want that. And that's been very clear.
00:23:21.460When I talked to my son and we're coming up in New York on Italian Heritage and Indigenous Peoples Day, and he's been learning about Columbus and the lead up to that.
00:23:30.940And we were talking about it this morning on the way to school.
00:23:33.060And I said, you know, the people in the Bahamas, they practiced slavery before Columbus got there.
00:23:38.680And he said, really, they didn't tell me about that.
00:23:40.680And we started talking all through it, as I so frequently go through his lessons with him and give him the reality of what's going on, because he's not getting that in school, certainly in his social studies classes.
00:23:54.880And he said to me, Mom, why is it always Christianity? Why are they always coming after Christianity?
00:23:59.660And we talked about that. And it really does seem like there is an undercurrent in American education to tell children not to be proud of our nation, but to hate it,
00:24:09.160not to be proud of themselves and their history, but to hate it and to overturn all of the legends and replace them with complete untruths,
00:24:17.500like this idea that the Native peoples were, you know, living in a utopic, idyllic time and place.
00:24:24.800And it's just not true. And so when we think about what they're telling our kids, when we think about that, they're telling them Columbus was just pure evil.
00:24:32.700They're also very clearly telling them lies to cover that up.
00:24:36.960And the legends that they are replacing Columbus with are lies. They're not true.
00:24:44.680And I think we need to recognize that, you know, Christianity is not the enemy here.
00:24:49.000Christianity is the foundation of Western civilization, which is a beautiful and glorious thing.
00:24:55.540Right. And that's something we've got about two minutes left, Libby, and we're here with Libby Emmons from the Post Millennial.
00:25:00.940And this is something I've said at the last Turning Point event. I said it at the Great Reefs event.
00:25:06.660I'm not apologizing for Western civilization anymore.
00:25:10.660Show me the civilization that has never gone through challenges and struggles and had its ups and downs.
00:25:18.680Right. It doesn't exist. And it would be ridiculous to judge something based on that, because guess what?
00:25:24.260We've all got problems because man is fallen. Man does have a sinful nature.
00:25:28.100And it's our goal in this life to actualize ourselves while rising above that, as Thomas Aquinas writes.
00:25:33.340And so this idea that we should be constantly apologizing, falling over ourselves. No, it's we're in the place we are now.
00:25:40.420We've been put here for a reason. Our goal is what can we do to make our lives better, to try to help others as best as possible?
00:25:48.560That's it. That's all we can do. And you have this revolutionary cabal that is trying to overthrow all of that so that they can take total power.
00:25:58.520Libby, one minute left. Give me your final thoughts and then give me your coordinates for the for the audience back home.
00:26:05.040Final thoughts. My final thoughts are that Columbus is not as bad as he was made out to be, that it is perfectly good and right that we should celebrate the legends and stories of our founding in all of their glory while recognizing some of the failures.
00:26:20.300And I think that that's perfectly acceptable.
00:26:22.180I don't think any culture in the face of the world does a better job of acknowledging its failures than ours does.
00:26:28.780And we need to remember to celebrate our triumphs and our glories as well.
00:26:33.480I'm at Libby Emmons on Twitter and I'm up at the Post Millennial every day.
00:26:37.940Remember Columbus, the seafarer, the explorer, the discoverer.
00:26:43.120I'm Jack Posobiec. Ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission to lay ashore.