EPISODE 358： THE WAR ON RELIGION WITH ERIC METAXAS
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Summary
In this special episode of the AmericaFest show, host Eric Metaxas sits down with the author of A Letter to American Church and to discuss his new book, A Christian Sunset, and why he wrote it. They talk about why he chose to write it, what it means to be a Christian, and why it s so important to have a Christian sunset.
Transcript
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Visit the Human Events Daily with our AmericaFest Special. We're continuing the
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series. And I do have to apologize to the audience because unfortunately, we have Eric
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show. We were going to have somebody else. They canceled. Yeah. You know, we needed somebody
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and Eric was around and he barged his way in and you know, he said he would, it would
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tie me up as a whole thing. So I said, fine, we'll have him on again.
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What? The last episode we did is atheism dead. We have so many great reviews, so many comments
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and the, the question that I want to come up with though, because I think we also have
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to get into the meta sense of why you wrote the book and, and, and also letter to American
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church because the real issue I think that we face as believers, as Christians in our
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country today. And I want to pose the question to you and frame this as, is there a war on
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Christians today in the West? Um, yes and no. Okay. Ultimately it is a war on God. Wow.
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Uh, what we're seeing right now, um, is, I mean, if you, if you think about it, no matter
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where you look, uh, when you see genuine atheism, okay, atheism is at war with God. It has this
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preposterous utopianist plan to make everything better. If we can just get rid of God, if we
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can just remake everything, what it really means to do is to unmake God's reality. So everything
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that God has put in order, the family, uh, men and women, whatever it is, even beauty and goodness,
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um, these people are wittingly or unwittingly depending on where they're coming from at war
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with these things. So, I mean, look, you see it in 20th century art, right? A war on beauty.
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Now we're going to make ugly things and we're going to tell you, we tell you that they're
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beautiful and we're going to make ugly, um, skyscrapers and brutalist architecture that
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everybody's going to want to gag at, but we're going to tell you, no, no, no, no. If you're
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sophisticated, you'll think it's good. Right. Right. Or my favorite are the, uh, the, uh, the
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modernist art, the paintings, which is all just money laundering. And I say that beyond
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Hunter Biden, that's that, you know, a big, uh, swath of blue across a pallet. Right.
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And it's, Oh, it's the, it represents man's search for meaning. Yeah. No, it's just blue
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on a canvas search for a book. Yeah, exactly. Basically. But I'm saying this is the history
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of the 20th century, everything beautiful and accessible, beautiful poetry. I mean, the poetry
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of long fellow, the poetry going through the ages, all of that in the 20th century, uh, the
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elites basically said, no, it's too pretty and it's too accessible. We want to do
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arcane, difficult, ugly things. We want to create poetry that no one will ever read
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except us and our five friends. And in a sense, that's the history. I mean, we're, we're
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only talking about beauty right now, but it is a war ultimately on God. When God says
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something is beautiful, representational art. God, I mean, notice there's nothing tacky
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in nature. Okay. Everything in nature, uh, is either beautiful or awesome or whatever,
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but only human beings can create things that are tacky.
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And you actually, you actually bring this out in the book a little too, because we point
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out that, uh, what is the purpose of beauty? How do you define beauty? How do you, uh, you,
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what is the evolutionary, you know, uh, developed purpose? It makes no sense.
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That's, I mean, ultimately what I say in my book is atheism dead and, and, you know,
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in a number of things, but I, I talk about the idea that everything that is good and true
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and beautiful is of God and points to God, whether you know it or not. So when you look
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at a sunset, you don't say, Oh, that's a Christian sunset. But the point is you're moved to tears
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That's right. You're moved by something beautiful. Why are you moved now? The, the, uh, strict
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atheist, uh, blind Darwinian evolutionists who believes in only in the natural, uh, he believes
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in materialism. He basically says, there's no such thing as beauty. There's no such thing
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as truth. There's no such thing as love. So whatever you feel is just some chemicals in
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your body, a biochemical reaction, a dopamine release, right. You know, has, has selected for
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you to be moved by these things or something, but also, but why? Well, well, what's the
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evolutionary answer? It gets, it gets the bigger stuff. So the bottom line is most people know
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that's garbage. Most people know that I see something beautiful and I weep. If I hear beautiful
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music and I weep, it points to something holy and sacred. We're made in God's image. We're made
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for eternity. We're made to be with him in a world of beauty and truth and goodness. And so everything
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in the world points to that. So the Marxist atheists, the materialists, they basically say, no, no, no,
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we can't have that. So we're going to unmake anything good and beautiful and true. So the family,
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the love that a husband and wife have for each other, uh, the beauty, uh, of, of, of the family,
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the beauty of a nation of natural, natural, national cultures, all of that stuff. They are at war
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with that. They want to deconstruct it. They want to strip it down and break it down. When you get to
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critical race theory, when you get to transgender madness, all of these things at their heart are a
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war on God's reality. There's a, there's a, a, a fun, uh, experiment you can run on social media.
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I'm constantly running experiments on social media as one of my favorite things about social media is
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that you, you can find a picture to find some picture, whether it's, you know, if it's my family,
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I'll, I'll post it or you're, you know, if you, or if it doesn't be a stock photo, uh, you know,
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just a, a well-dressed family, um, mom, dad, two kids, you know, walking into a church and just post
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it up on social media, no commentary and wait, wait for the comments to come in and you will get,
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I guarantee you every time I've done this, you always get the comment. Oh, well, he probably beats
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his wife. Right. And it's, this is, this is a trained pathological Pavlovian response to this,
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that they have to find some way to deconstruct and deny that an image of a totally normalized,
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homogenous relationship, uh, heterosexual relationship, a godly relationship would,
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would, would occur, would exist. They have to find some way to, uh, rob it of its validity.
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No, that's, that's, that's, that's beautiful. This is why I love you. Cause we kind of think
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like what you just said, I have actually said this, I've never heard anyone say this before, but
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the narrative. Okay. Now let's think about it. It's kind of like the Howard's in America.
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Cause they have to find something wrong. It's very Howard's in.
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It's the Howard's in narrative of America, but applied to everything where you basically say,
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what would the devil say? The devil would say, oh yeah, you probably don't know. He beats his wife.
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You know, so what we've noticed in 20th century pop culture. Okay. And this basically came in
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in the fifties and then the sixties is to deconstruct everything to say, yes, there are no heroes.
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Everybody's a bum. Now, biblically we can say, yes, everyone's a sinner, but then we also know that
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God has created us in his image. He wants to redeem what's broken, but they give you this hopeless
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narrative that basically says every husband who loves his wife, whatever, like we know the
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real story. The real story is he beats his wife or he's cheating with her. He's cheating on her,
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probably with a guy. They have to corrode what is beautiful, but they have so successfully sold that
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narrative. Okay. And especially in elite culture, which is filtered down through pop culture so that
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when you see something beautiful, even we kind of, it's almost like we've been trained to think of
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what's the negative thing hiding behind the beautiful thing. What's the, you know, that's right.
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And so I realized when I got married 26 years ago, when we had my daughter 23 years ago, I re I said,
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I've lived in a world that has not sung the praises of marriage. Marriage is a glorious thing.
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No, even at its worst, it's a glorious thing. Even the best marriages are difficult and it's worth it.
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It's beautiful and amazing. I haven't heard that narrative. I've always heard the narrative that
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marriage is a prison, you know, the ball and chain, whatever it is, right. Children,
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greatest thing imaginable. Oh, life is your life is over now, buddy. And all you hear about
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is how you, you're not going to be able to actualize yourself. You're not going to be out of an amazing
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career and do all the great things, whatever. Listen, the decades have passed. And I look at the people
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that bought that lie. They're alone. They missed the opportunity to have a family. These lies,
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these pernicious lies have been in the culture for decades. We, we talked about this, um, on the show
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about, uh, uh, before, but the founder and, and our, our, our, uh, uh, my colleague, Alex Clark of,
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of politics and spillover here at turning point USA. Um, we did an episode talking about how the founder
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of the show, sex in the city, um, actually came out and admitted that she regretted not being
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married and she regretted not having kids and sex in the city was the show. Yeah. No,
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they've been selling these lies. It's not the only one, but the most obvious one that sold this idea
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of go to the city, get your job versus if you watch a hallmark movie and this is why I'm an unabashed
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supporter of hallmark because every hallmark movie is the exact opposite of sex in the city.
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No, look, sex in the city. So, I mean, these things are so pernicious and so evil.
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They sold the lie that women can have unattached sex, just like the pig guys have been doing since
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Hefner has been selling that lie to the guys. It is destructive to every man, to every woman,
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but they sold this. They used everything they had to sell this to the culture.
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How many people have bought this lie? And so when you say is there a war on Christians,
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there's a war on God's values because God's values bless people. God's values, you know,
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in my book, Letter to the American Church, I talk about how the church is supposed to be active and
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we're supposed to bring our values into the public sphere, into politics everywhere. Why? Because it will
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bless people. Christians believe slavery is wrong. So we bring that value that human beings are sacred
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and we bring about the abolition of the slave trade, thanks to William Wilberforce and all
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those heroes. The abolition of slavery. We think racism is wrong. So the Jim Crow laws were abolished
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through the churches. In other words, if you believe in what God believes, people will get
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blessed, not just the church. Everyone will get blessed. You'll have more freedom in America.
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Well, there's the kingship of Jesus Christ extends beyond the church. Amen. It's called truth and
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reality. Right. So it's not. And this is why also that, you know, you know, if you're following an
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ideology that doesn't, um, I got into a debate earlier today, uh, online where as, as, you know,
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as you, as I, I suggest everyone to get into an online debate, at least once a day, it's certainly the
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best way to share your time. And, um, but someone said is, is religion and ideology? And I said, no.
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And I said, religion is ideology is, there are the ways that we try to, we try to define reality itself,
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but religion is it's called reality. The truth and reality are not an ideology and the worship of the
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creator. So ideology is the way that we, perhaps we try to understand it, reflect it, express it,
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but to, to equate worship of the creator with some mundane political or economic ideologies,
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no, no, you're totally missing. I mean, look, there are people, Christians,
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who have the ideology. There's no doubt about it. And that, but that is a non-believers take
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on religion. Right. No, I, I think the reason I wrote the book is atheism dead, uh, you know,
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and, and my, and the new book letter to the American church in a way, uh, is to say the opposite of
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that to say that what we're dealing with here is incontrovertible reality. God stacked the deck,
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the house always wins. He invented this universe. He invented all of reality. It all points to him.
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You can only kick against those goats for so long before you lose, because there is no way for a man
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to become a woman for a woman to become a man. There is no way to create some utopianist atheistic world.
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It all, the, these lies can only be sold for so long and then they fall apart because they are
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at war with reality itself. And so I'm, I'm simply convinced that it's less, you know, my, my project
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is less to convert people to Christian faith and to reality because all reality points to the God of
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the Bible. Uh, and, and if you care about truth, there's no way you're going to go in any other
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direction. And, and so I really do think that sign in the book is atheism dead. When I talk about
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science, I think to myself, you know, for a while, some people sold the lie that science is at war
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with faith. So you can get away with that for a while, but eventually if you continue to do science,
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science begins to point to the idea that, oh yeah, there's an intelligent designer who created all
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this. And the more science you learn, the more obvious it becomes. It's not kind of like, well,
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the evidence is pointing, you know, this is overwhelming. And we had, um, we've done, and I've,
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I've, I've done interviews with, uh, Ben Stein is coming back around again and he was, he was
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canceled before we had the word canceled. Uh, he was sort of the proto canceled guy because he did
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a documentary about intelligent design and the war on intelligent design. Um, and Adam Carolla was in,
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it's a great documentary. It was called expelled and it was, it's amazing.
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He was blacklisted. His career was over at that point. Think about that. Think about why would
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they, why would they, I mean, you kind of say if people really care about the truth,
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they would look into it or they would say, well, he has a point of view. I have this point of view,
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but they are so now we can use the word triggered, right? They're so horrified by the implications.
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Well, and here's, here's, here's the trouble for them now is that the people who blacklisted him
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and the new atheists and all of this, you can go around now. And when you talk about intelligent
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design, suddenly people start listening. Yeah. Suddenly people that, that is not a, a, a, a,
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you know, a dirty word anymore. It's not, you know, when, and when I hear, and look, and I'm just
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going to say it when I hear Elon Musk and these guys in the futurist talk about, uh, the simulation
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theory, I said, see the simulation there. Well, this is just St. Paul. You're just, you're, you're
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just, I mean, this has worked out 2000 years ago, man. You're, you're just bringing that stuff again
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because you know, intuitively that there is something more. There is, we have the fine tune
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universe that it doesn't quite work with the, the Darwinian model. There's too much that fits
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together. There's too much we've learned since the 1800s that you have to come up, you have to come
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to a designer. Now, now the, the, the humanists, right. They don't call themselves, they do the
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same word. They call themselves humanists. Yeah. They won't admit God, but they'll throw in some
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kind of alien or they'll say, you know, there's a weird computer program. Yeah. But even, even then
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I'll sit there and say, well, to extend your analogy out, uh, an algorithm or that provides
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for free. Well, is that any different than a soul? No, of course not. It's the same.
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It's called sophistry. They're playing games because they don't want to lose the argument.
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So they kind of switch the subject or say that the reality is that, and again, I, we were talking
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about my book is atheism dead. I, I was astonished. There's no other word astonished at the evidence
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for God from science. I grew up in a world where that wasn't even conceivable. Like I thought to
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myself, we'll always have problems. There's going to be science and faith and science. The more we know
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from science, the more it points to God. I mean, this is simple fact. I mean, if you only read my
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book, you're going to get, you're going to get the highlights, but the point is if you start reading
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more widely, you're going to say, how does everyone not know this, that science in the last few decades
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has effectively proved that an intelligent designer created the universe, this planet, human life,
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like there's really no other plausible solution. Now you might not like it, but you've got to deal with it.
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And, and a lot of these folks, they don't want to deal with it because it makes them uncomfortable.
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No, I think, I think if, if, if Christianity is at war, it's winning, I think it's winning. I think
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God is winning. I mean, he's already won in a sense, but it, it, in the early days of science,
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and this is what's so bizarre to me that if you had anything about the history of science itself and
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the way we do science, Oh my gosh, that there wasn't even any idea that this would be a conflict.
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In fact, science and theology were, were sort of considered the same thing.
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I actually forgot. I literally forgot a part of my own book and the book is atheism dead. Part of it,
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I deal with the fact that it was specifically Christian theology that led to what we call
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modern science and the scientific revolution. Now let's think about that. It was specifically
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Christian theology. And in the book, of course, I explain why, but so it didn't just kind of emerge.
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And we buy this lie that like, it was Galileo versus the church, right? Nonsense. It was
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believing Christians. It's really more Galileo versus Aristotle, by the way.
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Thank you. I also talked about that in the book. It was absolutely believing Christians
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who understood that the universe is ordered, it's created with order, and that we can probably find
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out more if we study it. There was not only no conflict between faith and science, but it was
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faith in Christ that led to science. It's science from faith.
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It's, it's in a, but I mean, you know, you talk about something that almost no one knows. We live
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in a world where people say, well, that can't be, that is true. And it, to understand it, it, that even,
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and it's, it's amazing because, you know, you, you, you're, you're Punnett squares and modern
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genetics. Well, that comes from Gregor Mendel. Yeah.
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Uh, the big bang theory comes from a Belgian priest. Yeah. Um, who later is, is Robert,
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you know, basically is, is stamped and approved by Hubble. Uh, you know, these, all of these
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theories, and these are recent new, um, Francis Collins, who I have issues with. I got big issues
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with Francis Collins, but I will give him credit for the human genome project. And has always said
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that, that his science made him more of a believer. I wish he was a stronger Christian. I will, but that's
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a whole, we don't want to get into that. It's a whole nother podcast against you right now,
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but I mean, I will make the point there and I'll throw his name out because of that accomplishment
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was real. Right. Um, which I do think that he then, then turned and used the good will for that
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for, for bad form. Right. But again and again and again, and I'm, I, this is something, by the way, my,
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I don't talk about this that much, but I might as well just say it. Uh, so my mom
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was a, before she retired, she was a microbiologist her whole life for 40 years. Whoa. And she
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is a devout Catholic and has never, never once in her life considered anything other
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than in all of the science she did, the studies, the interaction. And she studied the reproductive
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cycle, um, is specifically what she focused her, her work on and, uh, never once occurred to her
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that the things that she was studying and things that she was learning were in any way in conflict
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with her faith. I mean, look, the, the more, you know, if you're honest, the more you study
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the human body, uh, anything in science, the more you come to the conclusion that there is no way
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this just happened through random forces, through the processes of blind evolution.
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A tornado in a junkyard, right? There is no way if you're honest, but if you're,
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if you are an ideologue and you say, no, no, no, I don't believe in God. I've never, you,
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you try to concoct a way that it's possible. These things happen without God. They, they could not
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have it. The more we know, the more obvious it becomes that the God hypothesis is by far the only
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rational hypothesis we have. And Eric, let me, cause we only a few moments left, a few minutes here.
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Let me ask you though, why, why declare war on God? And when I look at the, the,
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the revolutionaries of the 1960s and, and, and forward from there, you notice that God is their
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first target in the public square, removing God from the public square. And the answer that I've
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always come up with is control is that if you remove God, you can, you can take control because
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we see this in every revolutionary movement. They target the priest, they target God, they target the
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churches, because if you remove that ideology from people, then they will not look to an,
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a higher power. They'll look to government, they'll look to world.
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Well, they will despair. And in their despair, they will turn to whoever says I've got the answers.
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Yes. Um, look, you see this over and over and over again. Why are the Chinese communists
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at war with God and with Christian faith? Why, or, or even with the weaker Muslims? Why? Because when you
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say there is a higher power to whom I answer, you cut them out. You basically say, I don't need to
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listen to you. I listened to God. That's what built America is that people said, I have faith in God.
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I will govern myself. I don't need a bureaucracy or a tyrant to tell me what to do. We will be largely
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self-governing only because we believe in God. You wouldn't have liberty on the American model if you
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didn't have God and virtue at the heart of it. So there's no question, if you're an authoritarian of any
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kind, your, your first enemy are those people that believe in the God of the Bible. And by the way,
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Hitler clearly knew if I do not destroy the church, I'll do it very carefully. I won't come out publicly
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against the church, but slowly behind the scenes, I will crush the church because they are my only
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real enemy in German culture. They are the only ones that can stand against the evil, which of course
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brings me to my new book, letter to the American church. Hitler got the church to be silent long
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enough that he was able to wipe them out. He said, just, just be quiet, just preach your little
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sermons. And, and, and I got everything else covered. They bought that lie just as many American
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Christians today are buying that lie and saying, we shouldn't be political. We shouldn't get involved
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At some point, if you buy that lie as the German church did at some point, the authoritarian state
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will crush the church, will, will remove you from having any voice or any ability to get out.
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And basically that's where we are in America. So the reason I wrote a letter to the American church
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is to wake up the American church. Say, if you do not put your faith into action now, very soon,
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you will no longer have the ability to do that. And if you have a state, and I have to say this as,
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uh, as the descendant of Poland, that if you have a state that embraces as its ruling ideology,
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atheism, which the, the natural, uh, exegists of atheism will always be eugenics. It must be.
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Oh, there's no question. Right. And so no question. It, it turns into eugenics. And this
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is where you start taking that order and then ordering humanity itself. You have, you have your,
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your, your, your ubermensch, the, your, your, we haven't said it, Jack, it's ultimately a satanic
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project. You have to be clear from the garden of Eden when Satan says you can be as gods. Okay.
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That lie, that utopianist lie, you can trace it all through human history. You can either realize
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I'm not God and I need God, or you can believe the lie that we can be as gods. And that, uh, that
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satanic project is something we're seeing now because let's face it, we have tremendous technology
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and abilities to communicate around the world in a way that it's actually frightening. And in other
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words, if you're an authoritarian, now's your time to, to say, we have the ability, uh, you know,
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as the Chinese do increasingly to do what the Nazis could only dream of doing, the Nazis could only
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dream. Imagine if, uh, Hitler had Google and face recognition technology and on and on and on. So
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we are living at a time where what human beings, we are able in a sense, technologically to build
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the tower of Babel that we've never been able to succeed in building before. And so this is why
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the war on God and on God's values has never been more in the open. And so if the church does not wake
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up now and stand with everything we have against it, we're going to reap the whirlwind. But again,
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I wrote the book because I believe God's will is that the American church specifically wake up
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and avoid the horror of what the German did, German church did. That's God's will. Whether we do it,
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that's up to us. Eric Metaxas, host of The Eric Metaxas Show. Go get both books,
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Is Atheism Dead? Letter to American Church. Eric, always a pleasure. Thank you. God bless.