Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - November 30, 2023


EPISODE 616： THE TRUTH ABOUT GENDER IDENTITY DISORDER


Episode Stats

Length

49 minutes

Words per Minute

174.51819

Word Count

8,660

Sentence Count

496

Misogynist Sentences

15

Hate Speech Sentences

17


Summary

In the wake of the recent attack in Nashville, Tennessee, a radicalized gender ideology may have played a role in the motivation behind the attack. In this episode, we speak with two detransitioners, Ollie London and Chloe Cole, who share their personal stories about how they became radicalized by gender ideology.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Ladies and gentlemen, we know Christmas is coming, but before Christmas, the gathering
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00:00:57.340 This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.
00:01:06.480 A commentator, international social media sensation, and former Navy intelligence veteran.
00:01:13.140 This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobiec.
00:01:16.060 Deliver us from evil.
00:01:18.120 Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily.
00:01:21.360 Today is Thursday, November 30th, 2023, Anno Domini.
00:01:25.300 Today we've got a special episode for you, the truth about gender identity disorder, and
00:01:30.860 we've got two detransitioners that are going to be joining us, Ollie London and Chloe Cole.
00:01:35.660 They're going to tell you not only the truth about this movement, but they're going to tell
00:01:40.720 you about how they themselves found themselves sucked into this rabbit hole, sucked into this
00:01:47.600 world of likes and clicks and retweets that every time they made an alteration to their
00:01:54.620 body in the name of gender, in the name of transitioning their gender, they were then
00:02:00.600 rewarded from this toxic online community.
00:02:04.520 You know, you hear the media talk about toxic influencers and toxic internet, but guess what?
00:02:09.560 This is the truth.
00:02:11.140 And they give you two very personal and powerful interviews.
00:02:15.580 Check it out.
00:02:18.180 Ollie London.
00:02:19.320 Now, you may know Ollie, you may have read the book, but Ollie, if you can, please introduce
00:02:23.080 yourself to the Human Events audience.
00:02:25.920 Hey, well, thank you so much for having me first, Jack.
00:02:28.300 So my name's Ollie London.
00:02:30.020 I'm an author of the upcoming book, Gender Madness.
00:02:32.920 I was also previously struggling for many years with identity issues.
00:02:37.060 I was transgender and then I later detransitioned and now I've become an ambassador, you know,
00:02:41.900 fighting for gays against groomers, fighting against, you know, the gender ideology that's
00:02:46.480 tearing so many communities apart.
00:02:49.800 Well, I mean, that's incredible because it's, you've, you've been working on all this.
00:02:54.160 You've been doing gays against groomers.
00:02:56.160 You've got the book coming out.
00:02:57.820 And then this week, all of a sudden, and I think this issue had been something that a
00:03:02.400 lot of people knew about.
00:03:03.560 There was a lot of interest in, there's been a lot of discussion about, but suddenly this
00:03:07.700 week here in the United States, we have this horrific act down in Nashville, Tennessee.
00:03:14.680 And for Christians and just for Americans in general, and I think everyone in the West,
00:03:21.180 they're trying to make, make some sense of, of how could something like this happen?
00:03:25.380 How could someone become so, uh, radicalized to commit and act like going after children?
00:03:33.800 And there are people questioning as to whether or not this ideology played a role in this attack
00:03:40.080 in Nashville.
00:03:41.280 So let me, let me ask you this first off.
00:03:42.820 Do, do you think it's possible?
00:03:44.280 Do you think it's possible that this ideology led to that?
00:03:47.760 Yeah, absolutely.
00:03:48.500 I mean, we of course need to see the manifesto, but I really do believe that the Nashville police
00:03:52.860 chief said there was a credible substance to the claim that this was motivated by radicalized
00:03:58.380 gender ideology.
00:03:59.940 And we also need to note as well, this individual only transitioned and became transgender within
00:04:04.480 the last couple of years.
00:04:05.700 So their friends at high school, they described them as normal, as shy, as sweet.
00:04:11.240 So something has happened within the last couple of years that has really pushed this
00:04:15.180 person to become so extreme and so radicalized that they would do that to a Christian community.
00:04:20.680 So I definitely think, uh, gender ideology, we look at the rhetoric now, you know, we have
00:04:25.460 so many, um, trans organizations calling for retaliation in Tennessee based on the law that's
00:04:31.900 banning gender affirming care that just went in, uh, to law just a few weeks ago.
00:04:36.400 So we're seeing this increased hate and rhetoric coming from the trans activist community, not
00:04:42.860 all of them, but there's a, there's a growing portion of people in that community that are
00:04:46.920 calling for violence and more extreme measures.
00:04:49.120 Um, so I really believe that has played a significant part, if not the leading factor in
00:04:53.880 what happens here.
00:04:55.040 Well, that's right.
00:04:55.820 And in fact, it wasn't even, um, anyone on, on the right or conservatives that started
00:04:59.940 saying that we had ABC news and mainstream media here in the United States that in the wake
00:05:04.060 of this, before we even really knew all the facts that were clearly pointing out that
00:05:07.600 this obviously took place in Tennessee just a few weeks after this law was passed.
00:05:13.780 And so the heat seemed to have been on.
00:05:15.860 Now we're also know there's some, some connection.
00:05:17.940 She went to the school.
00:05:19.100 She may or may not have known the pastor, uh, of the school pastors.
00:05:22.920 Um, and just, just since we're talking about the investigation, the pastor's own daughter
00:05:26.960 who attended the school was one of the victims.
00:05:29.840 And so it certainly appears that there's also a, this personal element to the entire thing.
00:05:36.920 So if, if you can, because you know, this story from your own story, uh, can you walk
00:05:42.020 us through this process of how does someone first get involved in this ideology, you know,
00:05:49.420 coming to it from the first place?
00:05:51.320 Because we've seen some of the photos of this, uh, Audrey Hale, and she seems to be just
00:05:55.940 a, a sweet, uh, young, um, girl from, again, from middle Tennessee, go, you know, pretty,
00:06:02.740 pretty traditional family go into a Christian school.
00:06:05.480 How do you go from that to being involved in this ideology?
00:06:10.060 Right.
00:06:10.520 And absolutely.
00:06:11.100 Like most of her school friends, uh, when she went to school, you know, they all had good
00:06:15.040 things to say about her.
00:06:16.020 They said, you know, she was shy.
00:06:17.460 They did say she was an outcast and she was always different though.
00:06:20.320 But the real issue is this, um, kind of ideology has become a very recent phenomenon.
00:06:25.660 We weren't having these issues 10 years ago.
00:06:28.320 You know, nobody had even heard of, you know, kids being medically transitioned.
00:06:32.180 This is a very recent phenomenon that spurred on within the last five years.
00:06:35.780 We've had an increase in the pediatric clinics in America.
00:06:38.740 There's now 60, 60 plus, um, there were none a decade ago.
00:06:43.300 So there's an increased rise, uh, there's schools teaching now this ideology telling kids about
00:06:48.640 sex education, but there's a real cultural shift and there's a push to try and normalize
00:06:53.620 this.
00:06:54.400 And no, many people didn't have a problem with anyone being trans, you know, five, 10 years
00:06:59.400 ago.
00:06:59.800 It wasn't until they started medically transitioning kids, tearing families apart, taking away parental
00:07:05.240 rights, that this became an issue.
00:07:06.940 So, you know, when it comes to someone wanting to change, I think there are so many factors.
00:07:12.140 There are a very small minority of people that do generally feel that way their whole life,
00:07:16.640 you know, since they were born, but we have to look at the fact the majority of kids these
00:07:20.360 days are going with a trend.
00:07:22.160 They're going with what's being pushed on them.
00:07:24.520 And there are also many of these kids that they may just, as a teenager, they're just
00:07:28.320 struggling with an identity.
00:07:29.700 You know, it might be, you know, it might be to do with their sexuality.
00:07:32.860 They might be gay, lesbian, or bi, and they're being told by adults, by teachers that they
00:07:38.300 are in the wrong gender.
00:07:39.180 So they must be affirmed immediately.
00:07:41.500 So this is what's causing real harm.
00:07:43.180 And then when you're putting young people on high doses of testosterone or estrogen,
00:07:48.200 when you're giving them surgeries, you know, this has a severe effect on the body.
00:07:52.920 It leads to bone density issues, heart attack increases.
00:07:57.200 It also changes the chemical imbalance in the brain.
00:08:00.580 So what will be interesting to see with the Nashville investigation, was this individual
00:08:06.700 on a high dose of testosterone?
00:08:08.460 Because that can lead to severe anger issues, and that could have played a factor in this
00:08:13.280 person becoming radicalized and violent.
00:08:15.580 We know the fact that this Audrey Hale was under the care of a doctor for an unspecified
00:08:21.940 emotional disorder.
00:08:23.400 We need to find out, was that related to them being transgender?
00:08:26.500 And were they being pumped with abnormally high doses of testosterone?
00:08:30.920 Because, of course, you know, given the age here, this I mean, we keep talking about her
00:08:36.800 as a as a girl, but she's 28 years old.
00:08:41.280 She's she's she's an adult young woman.
00:08:44.600 So if those indeed procedures were going on under the current Tennessee law, her parents
00:08:50.200 would not have been required to be informed of this because because, again, she's 28 years
00:08:55.160 old.
00:08:55.420 She's a 20 year old woman still living with the parents.
00:08:58.120 And so they they may have known some things, but apparently she was able to hide these
00:09:00.920 guns, hide this arsenal of guns that she had from them.
00:09:04.160 So I don't know exactly what how what level of scrutiny.
00:09:06.580 It's certainly possible that all of that could have been been done without the parents
00:09:10.640 knowledge whatsoever.
00:09:12.180 At 28, I mean, she could easily be able to walk into any doctor and do this.
00:09:16.300 But so that that's also kind of my question, I guess, because, you know, we we talk about
00:09:20.920 the targeting of children.
00:09:21.840 But this wasn't a child.
00:09:22.840 This is someone who was an adult, yet somehow targeted children.
00:09:29.400 So it seems as though there's an angle of that.
00:09:31.640 Right.
00:09:32.020 And yet this person herself was not a child.
00:09:35.100 So somehow she was she fell through.
00:09:38.180 And I personally believe that it's that social media, that the Internet and specifically Reddit,
00:09:45.040 there's been some discussion that she may have had a Reddit account.
00:09:49.960 They found some accounts that have similar profile names to some of the screen names that
00:09:54.520 she used on other platforms.
00:09:55.920 So you can't say for sure whether or not it was her.
00:09:58.760 But we do know that that certainly there's a lot of these out there.
00:10:01.760 It started with, you know, certainly Tumblr.
00:10:03.600 But then with Reddit and TikTok, I think these sub communities online have become a sort of
00:10:09.800 a sort of echo chamber for this type of ideology.
00:10:12.620 Would you agree with that?
00:10:13.460 Yeah, absolutely.
00:10:15.020 I mean, you know, before we had social media, before we had TikTok, we didn't really have
00:10:19.520 so many problems.
00:10:20.580 You know, kids, you know, always struggle with identity, but we didn't have such a severe
00:10:24.220 problem like we have today.
00:10:25.860 Of course, this person, Audrey Hale, was 28.
00:10:28.620 But now we need to find out what were they looking at online, because there is an increased
00:10:32.800 radicalization in the trans activist community.
00:10:36.000 There's constant calls of violence.
00:10:37.900 So when the Tennessee law was passed, there were multiple organizations that are well known
00:10:42.940 that were pushing for retaliation in Tennessee.
00:10:45.920 So, you know, that's what needs to come out in the investigation, because we need to see
00:10:49.640 who were these people?
00:10:50.860 Who was this person communicating with online?
00:10:53.220 Were they in these communities that were changing their mind and almost brainwashing them
00:10:58.540 into having hate?
00:10:59.680 Because unfortunately, there's so much hate happening right now.
00:11:02.260 We tend to see in the news, the mainstream media, we see the extremes, you know, one
00:11:06.060 extreme to the other.
00:11:07.480 We don't see, you know, what else is going on.
00:11:10.160 So I think these people in these communities, they're seeing the extremes going on.
00:11:14.060 They think, oh, trans rights are being taken away.
00:11:16.940 We're under attack.
00:11:18.120 There's a trans genocide.
00:11:19.540 When really it's not.
00:11:20.720 Nobody had an issue until they started doing this to children.
00:11:24.860 You know, sexualizing children.
00:11:26.140 You know, we just had Libby Emmons on the other day talking about this, this this trans
00:11:30.920 genocide.
00:11:31.300 And it's you can go to Wikipedia dot com right now.
00:11:33.920 And there's a whole article with paragraph chapter after chapter of the trans genocide.
00:11:38.260 And, you know, I'm sitting here thinking, is the trans genocide in the room with us
00:11:42.440 right now?
00:11:43.120 Where is the trans genocide?
00:11:44.240 I was I was completely unaware that this was going on.
00:11:47.200 Are there are there, you know, the anti trans death squad storming the nation right now?
00:11:52.280 I mean, what what exactly are they talking about?
00:11:56.140 I mean, they tend to use that word all the time.
00:11:58.460 They keep saying, you know, their rights are being taken away.
00:12:00.540 There's a trans genocide.
00:12:01.940 But it's really not.
00:12:02.780 Because if you look at any protests that involves trans activists and, you know, against
00:12:07.900 women or people that are Christian or conservative, it's always the trans activists that use the
00:12:13.860 violence.
00:12:14.340 It's never the other side.
00:12:15.560 So there's no trans genocide going on.
00:12:17.680 Of course, trans people struggle.
00:12:19.000 There are people that, you know, do get assaulted in any community.
00:12:22.860 You know, we saw the rise in Asian hate crimes since COVID.
00:12:26.580 So any community has violence.
00:12:28.260 Most of the violence in the trans community is actually sexual based violence.
00:12:31.720 So it's nothing to do with someone because of their identity.
00:12:34.480 So, you know, when they're saying about this non-existent genocide and suddenly, you know,
00:12:39.520 six people from the Christian community had their lives taken by a trans gender person,
00:12:44.100 you know, we have to kind of, you know, stop that rhetoric because it's not helping the
00:12:48.140 trans community either going on about the genocide when other people are being killed
00:12:51.640 because likely of this ideology.
00:12:54.660 No, that's exactly right.
00:12:55.740 We are coming up on a break.
00:12:56.920 Ali London, make sure to go to the site.
00:13:00.240 Check out the book.
00:13:00.820 I want to hold you on because I want to get more into we can speculate what Audrey Hale's
00:13:06.920 story is, but you know your story.
00:13:09.020 You can tell your story.
00:13:10.180 And when we come back here on human events, I'd like to ask you to tell your story because
00:13:15.520 it might shed some light into these questions, these burning questions that so many people
00:13:21.520 are asking that when we have, look, and as a Christian, as a father of two little boys,
00:13:27.540 when I see a little girl lying dead at the foot of the cross in a school, I, it's very
00:13:34.060 emotional and it's very spiritual.
00:13:35.460 Stay tuned.
00:13:35.840 Come back.
00:13:36.180 Ali London.
00:13:36.500 And we're back with Ali London, the author of the forthcoming book, Gender Madness, about
00:13:45.860 this ideology, the radicalization and your own personal story.
00:13:49.780 Now, we don't know the story yet of Audrey Hale.
00:13:51.940 It has yet to be written.
00:13:53.240 And yet your story has been written.
00:13:55.440 So I was hoping that you could share that with us for our audience to understand and
00:13:59.460 see if we can find any points of overlap between what's going on here.
00:14:02.700 Yeah, so I wrote Gender Madness basically to help a variety of people.
00:14:08.400 So I want to help people that struggle with identity, particularly young people, because
00:14:12.280 this is one of the most pressing issues of our time right now.
00:14:15.260 We're seeing, you know, thousands and thousands of young people question their identity and
00:14:20.180 want to change themselves when really they should try to focus on finding happiness from
00:14:25.000 within.
00:14:25.520 So, you know, part of my book covers my struggle with identity.
00:14:28.620 I've had so many struggles over the years.
00:14:31.020 What led to that?
00:14:31.920 So we look at, you know, these kids, many kids get bullied.
00:14:35.280 Many kids want to fit in.
00:14:37.160 Many of the kids that are being diagnosed with gender dysphoria have underlying issues.
00:14:41.340 A lot of them have autism.
00:14:42.900 A lot of them have bipolar, severe depression.
00:14:45.320 So we're looking at the correlation.
00:14:47.000 So my book explores all of those subjects.
00:14:49.120 It's also exploring what is driving this growing number of young people to want to transition.
00:14:54.620 So I've got multiple chapters on the influence of TikTok, how that suddenly came about in
00:14:59.280 2018.
00:14:59.920 And then that's when we really started to see a huge rise in the numbers of kids wanting
00:15:04.980 to transition.
00:15:05.600 It's almost become a trend.
00:15:06.860 So I also discussed that, the social media implications, how the education system is changing
00:15:12.360 as well.
00:15:13.000 In particularly, a lot of my book is about America.
00:15:15.460 I've spent a lot of time in America.
00:15:17.000 You know, a lot of these schools now in the woke school districts are pushing gender ideology
00:15:21.900 on kids and the parents have no idea.
00:15:25.160 So they're basically encouraging these kids to change their gender before the child even
00:15:29.760 really has a concept of gender.
00:15:31.280 So the book explores all of that.
00:15:33.280 I also have chapters on the different state laws, the current legislation being passed,
00:15:38.240 either banning gender affirming care or trying to not ban it.
00:15:42.060 So I'm looking at all those different laws and how we as a society can stop this happening
00:15:46.620 to children, how we can protect women's rights, protect parents' rights, while also being
00:15:51.460 compassionate.
00:15:52.260 You know, it's important to understand that many of these people, these young people,
00:15:56.100 they're really struggling with their mental health.
00:15:57.720 They're struggling to fit in.
00:15:59.300 But, you know, gender affirming care is not the solution.
00:16:02.160 You know, putting these kids on hormones is only going to amplify the problems they face.
00:16:06.360 So the book covers all those issues.
00:16:08.300 It's also about my faith journey, how, you know, I got to a point in life I was so obsessed
00:16:14.400 with trying to look a certain way and become a different person.
00:16:17.380 I really lost my identity.
00:16:18.920 So it's about finding identity and how we as a society can come together to fight this
00:16:25.220 gender ideology that's harming so many people across America.
00:16:29.560 Well, can you can you tease that out for us a little bit?
00:16:31.720 So you say you you say you lost your identity and then you went on a faith journey.
00:16:36.700 What does that mean?
00:16:37.520 Can you walk us through that?
00:16:39.540 So since I was a teenager, I really did struggle with myself.
00:16:42.940 So I used to get severely bullied.
00:16:44.440 And that was all related to my looks.
00:16:46.580 I was always a lot more feminine.
00:16:48.360 I used to prefer doing girls things like playing with Barbie dolls.
00:16:51.780 So I used to get bullied a lot because of my femininity.
00:16:56.300 And as an adult, I started having plastic surgery to just to try and improve myself.
00:17:01.740 And that kind of became an addiction because I was using that as an outlet to try and deal
00:17:07.220 with my past traumas when instead I should have gone to therapy.
00:17:10.260 I should have tackled these things face on.
00:17:12.460 I resorted to, you know, going through this surgical journey, which now I've realized was
00:17:17.300 like self harming.
00:17:18.340 You know, I was enjoying at the time the pain I was going through because I felt I deserved
00:17:22.120 it.
00:17:22.820 So I went through that journey.
00:17:24.580 I got to a certain stage.
00:17:26.180 By the way, that's that's that's fascinating.
00:17:28.280 So that that you you just equated this this using plastic surgery as an outlet to self
00:17:36.940 harm the same way we might consider, you know, cutting that that goes on for teens and preteens
00:17:44.360 that for you, though, because they both require or they both include this this this this pain
00:17:53.500 element to it.
00:17:54.460 So that's so interesting to me that you draw a parallel between essentially between the two.
00:17:59.520 Yeah, I mean, it was an outlet to deal with pain.
00:18:01.680 And I think that's what many young people do these days.
00:18:03.960 You know, when you see young teenage girls having double mastectomies and then proudly
00:18:08.460 showing their scars on TikTok, I really think, you know, they must be struggling with a lot of
00:18:13.220 mental health struggles.
00:18:14.860 And, you know, doctors have a responsibility not to do that to them, you know, because if somebody
00:18:19.900 was anorexic, you wouldn't give them liposuction.
00:18:22.420 So why on earth would you give a child that's struggling with their mental health, you know,
00:18:27.920 a double mastectomy?
00:18:28.960 It just doesn't make sense.
00:18:30.140 So I really believe, you know, these kids, it's an outlet.
00:18:33.120 They want to almost self harm inflict pain on themselves because they don't fit in.
00:18:37.720 They maybe get bullied and they're just trying to, you know, be included in this kind of very
00:18:42.600 harmful trend of, you know, self harming and body mutilation in the name of gender.
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00:20:03.940 I mean, look, there have been so many fads that go through.
00:20:06.980 Everyone knows that when you're in teenage years, fads are the most highly susceptible.
00:20:13.360 So that's, you know, I remember when, for me, when I was going through high school, you
00:20:16.660 know, you had the goths and you had, or you wore flannel, you know, in the 90s because
00:20:22.840 Kurt Cobain wore flannel and you were doing the grunge thing and everything was, you know,
00:20:27.320 baggy jeans.
00:20:28.360 And those are actually coming back a little bit now.
00:20:30.060 If you've noticed that the Zoomers kind of have this sort of like retro 90s thing going
00:20:33.400 on the same way that in the 90s, there was a retro 70s thing going on.
00:20:37.500 And yet that didn't include these extremes of behavior that we're starting to see now.
00:20:44.400 But let me ask you as well, because with social media, it almost serves to validate those types
00:20:51.700 of behaviors, doesn't it?
00:20:52.720 And in fact, reward them to some extent.
00:20:55.340 Absolutely.
00:20:55.920 I mean, I've, I talk about this in my book.
00:20:57.800 So basically what's happening now is these kids that are struggling with loneliness, they're
00:21:02.320 struggling to accept themselves.
00:21:03.720 Maybe they're getting bullied.
00:21:05.040 They desperately want to fit in.
00:21:06.820 So they go on to apps like TikTok.
00:21:08.920 They see very successful influencers like Dylan Mulvaney that gets millions of views, that
00:21:13.360 gets praise.
00:21:14.460 And they want that too.
00:21:16.140 You know, what child doesn't want to fit in?
00:21:17.960 What child doesn't want to be good?
00:21:18.880 Kids invited to the White House.
00:21:20.800 I know, right.
00:21:21.760 And all those brand deals as well.
00:21:23.620 So, you know, so, you know, these kids want to get validated.
00:21:26.660 So when they see someone that's sharing their transition journey online, I guarantee you all
00:21:31.740 those videos get so many likes.
00:21:33.320 They get so many views.
00:21:34.440 It's all praise.
00:21:35.420 It's all positivity.
00:21:36.820 So the kids that are questioning themselves or have been indoctrinated to question themselves,
00:21:41.700 they want that too.
00:21:42.720 They want to be validated.
00:21:44.120 So they start to slowly change.
00:21:45.940 Maybe they grow their hair.
00:21:46.980 They put on some makeup.
00:21:47.820 But suddenly they get praise.
00:21:49.440 That's positive reinforcement.
00:21:50.920 So they continue doing more and more extreme.
00:21:53.260 And it's, you know, these days it's all about likes and views to feel good about yourself.
00:21:57.040 When really we should be, you know, switching off the social media for kids.
00:22:00.800 Let them go play outdoors.
00:22:02.060 Let them go to church.
00:22:03.240 You know, let them go do soccer or outdoor activities.
00:22:05.940 Instead of spending all the time on TikTok trying to seek validation because it's only going
00:22:11.080 to amplify the problems they already have.
00:22:13.900 No, you're exactly right.
00:22:15.160 This is what they're doing is they're short-circuiting the dopamine cycle in the brain.
00:22:19.680 And they're creating, it's, people refer to this as love bombing.
00:22:23.380 People, it can be, it can be used to manipulate people in many ways.
00:22:28.660 And certainly with children, you're already dealing with undeveloped brains, developing brains.
00:22:33.840 And this idea that, you know, you're going to flood so much of this at them.
00:22:39.340 I mean, this, this, these types of techniques work on adults too, by the way.
00:22:42.180 But when you're kids, you have no defenses whatsoever to it.
00:22:45.820 So the idea that, that, that we're pushing this with kids and then rewarding it for kids,
00:22:50.500 it's, it's completely dangerous.
00:22:52.120 So how did you, and, and, and, and I'll ask this question, might be a little sensitive,
00:22:55.860 but, you know, tell me what you think.
00:22:57.780 How did you pull back?
00:22:59.780 How did you begin to change, you know, was there a moment, was there a pivot point?
00:23:07.200 What was it for you that led you to that inflection?
00:23:11.220 So I basically felt like I got to the end of the road.
00:23:13.740 I've been doing so many surgeries over a number of years.
00:23:16.700 I'd really struggled to accept myself and I still wasn't happy.
00:23:20.420 And I thought, you know, I've done all this surgery.
00:23:22.560 I've had facial feminization.
00:23:24.960 I had all my bones shaved down.
00:23:26.360 I've had six nose surgeries, three eye surgeries, three facelifts.
00:23:29.780 So I'd basically done so much extreme and I was thinking, what else can I do to, you
00:23:34.020 know, make myself feel better?
00:23:35.620 And I was thinking, okay, I can either do more surgery or, you know, I was reaching a
00:23:40.080 point where I was maturing and I was actually taking some time out from life.
00:23:43.660 And I was thinking, what am I actually doing?
00:23:45.860 You know, I can either, you know, the famous Robert Frost poem, two roads less traveled.
00:23:50.460 You can either take one road that leads to something that is unexpected, or you can take the path
00:23:55.480 you're already on.
00:23:56.140 I decided to go down the road that was unexpected, take a step back, go to church and just reflect
00:24:01.900 on what I was doing to myself because I was harming myself, but I was also harming people
00:24:06.380 that watch me on TikTok and watch me on Instagram because I get a lot of views on there.
00:24:10.640 And no, I had a duty to be a good role model for these people.
00:24:14.300 So it really made me reflect and want to actually realize I need to find the real me that's been
00:24:18.820 trapped inside all these years.
00:24:20.060 That's actually incredible.
00:24:23.080 Wow.
00:24:23.320 So you just, now for, for church was, was that part of your family life when you were younger?
00:24:27.920 Was there someone that, that was calling you there or was it just sort of more a, an internal
00:24:33.020 decision?
00:24:34.680 Um, so I'd always been spiritual, but what's interesting, I was actually atheist most of
00:24:38.400 my life.
00:24:38.960 Um, when I was a kid, I did used to go to a church school in England.
00:24:42.760 Um, so I'd been to church many times as a kid, I had very familiar memories, but, you
00:24:47.860 know, as an adult, I just kind of lost touch with that, um, and just kind of didn't really
00:24:52.200 believe in anything.
00:24:53.220 And I think, you know, the fact that I didn't believe in anything really was why I was so
00:24:57.400 misguided, why I was so lost.
00:24:59.380 I was lost in the wilderness.
00:25:00.400 So it wasn't until I started going to church again, that I really found some sense of purpose
00:25:05.180 and it made me think about life more.
00:25:07.580 You know, life is more than just getting surgery.
00:25:09.740 Life is more than just trying to change who you are.
00:25:11.780 It's actually better to accept who you are, to feel good about yourself, and then to try
00:25:16.580 and help other people.
00:25:17.640 That's much more important.
00:25:19.280 God bless.
00:25:20.120 Ollie London, thank you so much for sharing your story with us for your journey and for
00:25:24.600 writing the book.
00:25:25.360 Tell people where they, can they follow you and how do they pre-order the book?
00:25:29.180 Uh, thank you, Jack.
00:25:30.100 So, um, I'm very active on Twitter.
00:25:32.500 It's Ollie London TV, also Truth Social, Ollie London, Instagram London Ollie.
00:25:37.540 And my book is available for pre-order now.
00:25:39.720 Amazon, Barnes and Nobles, Books A Million, and all good other book retailers.
00:25:44.260 Thank you.
00:25:47.520 All right, folks.
00:25:48.840 Welcome back here.
00:25:49.880 Someone that I've been meaning to have on the show for the longest time, uh, is Chloe Cole,
00:25:56.720 our next guest.
00:25:57.720 She is one of the most outspoken detransitioners in the country.
00:26:02.940 She's currently suing Kaiser Permanente, which I completely support.
00:26:07.560 Um, and, and please go and support that, uh, that fundraiser if you can.
00:26:12.960 Chloe, thank you so much for joining us here on Human Events.
00:26:15.960 Thank you for having me.
00:26:16.900 So, so before we get into that, I do want to get into that, but I've got to ask you about
00:26:22.940 this, this week we're sitting and we're watching this, the, so much going on, which seems like
00:26:29.660 with this trans movement is hitting all at once.
00:26:32.240 And we were told this was the trans week of visibility, the trans day of vengeance.
00:26:36.960 There's a shooting conducted by a, a transgender, uh, woman in Nashville, Tennessee, attacking
00:26:45.080 a Christian school.
00:26:46.600 They're storming the capitals in Kentucky, in Tennessee.
00:26:51.820 They stormed the Capitol in Oklahoma last month.
00:26:55.660 What is going on with this movement?
00:26:58.020 How has this become such a force in America?
00:27:04.080 Right.
00:27:04.920 So the.
00:27:06.960 A lot of people are making this out to either be a gun issue or a transgender issue.
00:27:14.920 They're saying that either guns or this entire group of people are inherently dangerous.
00:27:21.040 But I think that's, I think both those arguments are pretty disingenuous.
00:27:25.020 I think that it's really a mental health issue.
00:27:29.040 This is a group of people that is being strongly misled and being,
00:27:36.960 they're being failed by people who should be, sorry.
00:27:44.720 People who should know better.
00:27:46.720 Right.
00:27:48.980 They're being fed the idea that not only they can actually transition something that they're not,
00:27:57.560 that they can become the opposite sex or another sex entirely, but that they're oppressed.
00:28:03.240 They're an oppressed group and they should fight tooth and nail for the rights.
00:28:05.880 It's like, and you hear this and you, it seems like it's, it's happening more in conservative states.
00:28:15.640 Right.
00:28:16.120 And because these bills are being passed and they're being told not that, not that, oh, this is a new, but they're actually being told that this is a genocide, that this is the stripping of rights, that this is the taking away of health care.
00:28:31.620 And what, what, what, what kind of emotion does that elicit from a person who's told those things and believes them?
00:28:42.440 Right.
00:28:42.920 They think their lives are being threatened because they're being told that the rights are being taken away, that their health care is being stripped of them, stripped from them.
00:28:53.460 And, and, and obviously this is not true.
00:28:59.040 Chloe, we have to understand that there's something driving all of these events that we're seeing, whether it's in Tennessee at a Christian school or the Tennessee Capitol, or in Kentucky or in Oklahoma last month, that there is a movement behind this.
00:29:18.680 And, and, and we're trying, we're struggling to understand what is this movement, who is behind it, who are the people benefiting from it?
00:29:28.860 Right.
00:29:29.480 It's very ideologically driven.
00:29:33.960 They push transition as the only means of treating gender dysphoria and anything else is conversion therapy.
00:29:40.520 It's genocide and because legislators, especially in these red states are trying to stop practice of childhood transition and improve the model of care for these kids.
00:29:53.100 They are painting it as something, as a human rights issue that these kids are having their livelihood, their health care stripped away from them.
00:30:02.560 And I've, one thing that I've noticed, um, I travel around a lot and, um, I testify on legislature across the, the U S and a lot of these, in a lot of these red states that I've testified in.
00:30:19.560 Um, the activists during these hearings are a lot more desperate.
00:30:24.340 They're a lot more vocal there.
00:30:25.620 They often interrupt the hearing by, um, by making a show of themselves, by shouting, by laughing.
00:30:32.480 And I often get shouted at when I'm leaving the room.
00:30:36.640 And I think part of that is because they're more, they're more desperate.
00:30:41.380 Their ideology is, is losing.
00:30:43.720 You know, when, when, when they, when they target you in these events have, uh, what about your, or have you been personally threatened by this movement?
00:30:53.060 Have they, uh, have they passed threats like credible threats to you in any way?
00:30:58.520 Yeah.
00:30:58.920 I actually hosted a rally, um, earlier this month at the, at the California Capitol.
00:31:04.760 In California.
00:31:05.220 Right.
00:31:05.420 It wasn't, yeah, it wasn't, it wasn't political in any way.
00:31:07.580 It was just about people like me who have been harmed by the affirmative care model and detransitioned.
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00:32:27.400 Antifa had to, had to step in and make it a political thing.
00:32:32.240 And, um, I got dozens of threats over Twitter and, um, luckily police kept the, uh, the riots
00:32:44.400 away from the actual event, but they showed up at a local park and they actually, um, they
00:32:51.140 destroyed, um, they destroyed media equipment and assaulted several people.
00:32:57.400 And, um, outside of that, I've gotten, I can't even count the number of threats that I've,
00:33:04.260 that I've gotten online, um, threats of, of physical assault, of, of rape.
00:33:11.020 And I've, I've been doxed.
00:33:14.240 Chloe, we're coming up on a break right now, but I'd like, if we can, for in the next segment,
00:33:19.960 because we do have you for one more segment, I'd love for you to share that story with us
00:33:24.820 and to tell our audience your story.
00:33:27.640 Because I think as we look into what happened with Nashville, we don't know all the details,
00:33:32.600 but your story might be able to show and shine some light on it.
00:33:37.700 Stay tuned folks.
00:33:38.240 We'll be right back with more of Chloe Cole.
00:33:42.580 And we're back with Chloe Cole.
00:33:44.040 Chloe, in our last segment, you know, you, you shared with us some very powerful testimony.
00:33:49.140 And I would say that that was testimony about what this movement is doing to this country,
00:33:54.060 the radicalization of the youth in many cases, but also other members of society like this,
00:34:01.380 uh, Audrey Hale down in Tennessee.
00:34:03.860 But, but I wondered if you can to share with us your story for the audience.
00:34:10.120 Uh, you, we, we, we know about the law that you're suing Kaiser Permanente now, but, but
00:34:15.060 take us back to when you yourself first encountered, uh, the transgender movement, transgenderism online
00:34:25.040 as an ideology and walk us through what that was like for you.
00:34:30.820 So my first exposure to it was through the internet, through social media.
00:34:35.060 Um, I got my first phone when I was 11 and the first social media app that I really used
00:34:42.940 was Instagram.
00:34:44.620 And, um, I'd say that I was a pretty vulnerable kid in a lot of ways because I was a little
00:34:53.260 bit more on the gender non-conforming side.
00:34:55.300 I was, I was more of a tomboy and I had some body image issues.
00:34:59.640 I started puberty pretty early and I became pretty conscious of, of that from a very young
00:35:04.980 age.
00:35:06.180 And I was being fed a lot of these images of women that I just, I felt like I couldn't
00:35:13.120 match up to.
00:35:13.880 And on top of that, I was in the communities that, um, that I would browse, um, on things
00:35:21.300 like video games and shows that I watched.
00:35:24.460 And there were a lot of other kids and young adults who identified as either gay, lesbian,
00:35:32.680 bisexual, or overwhelmingly transgender.
00:35:36.880 A lot of them were non-binary or they identified as the opposite sex.
00:35:42.320 And I started seeing a lot of posts that were specifically about transitioning and gender
00:35:48.000 and sexuality.
00:35:48.600 And because I was at a pretty, I was at an age where naturally I would start to wonder
00:35:54.380 like about myself, where I stood in the world, where, who I was attracted to and what role
00:36:04.700 I would fill in the world.
00:36:07.900 And after being exposed to, after being exposed to this stuff for so long, I started to wonder
00:36:12.120 about my own sexuality and gender identity.
00:36:16.900 And after a while, it just made sense that as a very masculine girl who never fit in, never
00:36:26.260 really felt very pretty.
00:36:28.560 It just, it just made sense that this whole time I was a boy and I started to change myself
00:36:36.360 in pursuit of that.
00:36:37.680 I, I started to cut my hair short.
00:36:40.060 I started to, um, to wear different clothing and I tried to act more like the boys at school
00:36:48.520 and even change my name.
00:36:49.860 And, um, I came out to my parents when I was 12 going on 13 and their reaction was to take
00:37:01.100 me to a therapist because they didn't know how to handle this.
00:37:03.160 They didn't know anything about this and they thought that it would be best to get a professional
00:37:07.860 involved.
00:37:09.320 But what ended up happening was that my delusion of actually being the opposite sex was affirmed.
00:37:20.920 I was treated as if I were a boy.
00:37:22.840 They, they only referred to me by my, by my preferred name and by my preferred pronouns
00:37:29.020 and they didn't go by anything else.
00:37:30.780 They never even went into the underlying, um, issues that I had and what they knew of,
00:37:39.920 they didn't address.
00:37:42.060 It was just treated as a completely standalone issue from my gender dysphoria.
00:37:46.120 And they told my parents later that in an appointment they had, I don't think I was there for this
00:37:57.060 actually.
00:37:57.500 So I couldn't really refute anything that was, that was said.
00:37:59.840 And I didn't, I didn't know what they were, what they were telling my parents at the time,
00:38:04.140 but they told my parents that if I wasn't allowed to transition, then it was very likely
00:38:10.300 that I would kill myself.
00:38:13.660 And this was when at the time I was, uh, I was starting to ask my parents to take me to
00:38:19.080 an appointment to put me on hormones because I thought that that was the natural progression
00:38:23.620 of things, that it was the only means of treating gender dysphoria and that I should be on these
00:38:31.420 treatments ideally as early as possible, because that was, that was how the trans community
00:38:38.460 represented things.
00:38:39.500 That was how the research that I did both from the community and, um, from official medical
00:38:45.800 resources seem to point to this as the only way of, of treating my condition.
00:38:53.140 Would, would your, did your parents question the doctors at all?
00:38:57.300 Did they, did they ever have a time where they pushed back and said, does this, is, this seems
00:39:02.800 extreme, uh, you know, you know, and of course you want to trust your doctor, but obviously
00:39:08.040 some of the things that you're talking about here are quite, uh, quite extreme and, and
00:39:12.960 certainly, um, uh, shall we say not, not, not exactly commonly, you know, commonly understood.
00:39:19.340 I mean, I, I, I don't think people are used to, and certainly at that age, these types of
00:39:24.320 procedures going on.
00:39:25.380 So was there any, was there any level of pushback like that?
00:39:29.260 Yeah, there, there was actually, they, they were okay with me changing the way I dressed and
00:39:34.120 they tried to go along with my name change, but they didn't want to, they didn't want me
00:39:39.680 to be making any permanent decisions.
00:39:42.920 They didn't want that on their hands.
00:39:44.820 They didn't want me to make any choices that I very well could regret as an adult.
00:39:54.980 And they told this to the doctors, they voiced their concerns and they were, they were just
00:40:02.120 ignored.
00:40:02.460 And so at that point did, and I know at some point, and obviously you, you've told the
00:40:08.620 story before, at what point did, does it, did they go from not just, uh, blockers and
00:40:17.260 hormones, but to actual surgery?
00:40:20.760 Right.
00:40:21.440 So just about half a year after I was, um, I was diagnosed with gender dysphoria was when
00:40:31.460 I was put on blockers and a month after that was when I was, I was put on testosterone and
00:40:36.360 they actually broke their, uh, their protocol for gender dysphoric children.
00:40:41.260 That seems so fast.
00:40:42.780 That's I'm sorry.
00:40:43.420 That just, that's shocking to me.
00:40:44.500 That seems so fast.
00:40:45.740 That seems extremely aggressive.
00:40:47.660 Yeah, it was, it was actually pretty, pretty similar with the surgery.
00:40:50.180 Even, um, I started treatment at, at 13 and two years later, um, after my sophomore year
00:40:58.140 was when I underwent surgery.
00:41:00.760 And my first appointment for that was roughly around the same time, time period.
00:41:06.620 It was about half a year before that point.
00:41:09.340 So it's half a year, it's half a year.
00:41:12.760 And then, so at, at this point, you know, you've, you've, you've undergone all this.
00:41:18.300 Are you, are you feeling though at some point you, you talked about the feelings that you
00:41:22.580 had when, and when you were online, you were interacting with, with this content online,
00:41:26.520 other users, and that you were feeling these, these feelings of not fitting in at any point.
00:41:32.180 Did you feel those feelings go away?
00:41:34.420 Did you start to feel like you fit in?
00:41:36.080 And did you start to feel like you were actually, um, you know, becoming your true self?
00:41:41.940 With each treatment, there was like a honeymoon period.
00:41:45.520 Um, once I started on testosterone, which I was, I was in my eighth grade year and had,
00:41:50.060 I hadn't really come out to anybody yet.
00:41:52.460 I wasn't initially accepted by, by my peers when I started transitioning because, I mean,
00:41:57.560 I, I mostly attribute it to the fact that I was in middle school and people just aren't
00:42:00.980 nice, especially towards kids who present differently.
00:42:04.060 But once I was in high school, um, I was on testosterone for long enough that, um, my voice
00:42:10.640 was fairly deep, deeper than most boys my age at the time.
00:42:14.120 Actually, I looked, I appeared to be just like any other boy, my age and nobody other than
00:42:21.220 people who I went to elementary and middle school with knew that I, that I even was a biological
00:42:26.280 female.
00:42:27.840 And there were a few instances when I was outed behind my back, but for the most part, nobody
00:42:34.340 knew.
00:42:34.660 And they just saw me as another one of the boys.
00:42:38.000 And there was kind of that comfort of being able to, to make male friends and be as part
00:42:45.960 of a group and seemingly be accepted for who at the time, who I thought I was, but that
00:42:54.300 went away after a while.
00:42:55.160 I, um, reality started set then and my relationships weren't as close anymore.
00:43:04.020 I didn't really have a lot of room to talk about my feelings or my personal struggles and
00:43:09.420 my dating, um, my dating pool was really severely limited by this.
00:43:14.640 I mean, everybody, a lot of my other friends were getting into relationships and getting girlfriends
00:43:21.580 friends and boyfriends, but I was somebody who appeared to outwardly be male, but I was still
00:43:30.440 attracted to males and this proved very difficult.
00:43:34.680 There were, there were a few people, there were a few guys who expressed interest in me, but it often
00:43:42.560 felt like if anything, I was just an object of a fetish, mostly.
00:43:49.460 You mentioned being on, uh, testosterone.
00:43:53.460 What, what, what, what did that feel like?
00:43:55.600 What, what changes did you notice when you're on testosterone?
00:43:58.980 Yeah.
00:43:59.480 So I was, I was on the blockers first and I was already about like three or four years
00:44:06.920 into puberty before I started on them.
00:44:09.180 And I'd already been having my period for almost two years by that point.
00:44:14.620 So it basically sent me into a state of menopause.
00:44:17.000 Um, I was, I had pretty much no sex hormones in my body.
00:44:24.300 My, my sex drive went all the way down.
00:44:27.600 My, I was very lethargic and I was getting hot flashes and itching all over my body.
00:44:35.100 And I felt pretty depressed.
00:44:36.400 I just wanted to, to move on to the next step.
00:44:39.700 Um, and so once I started on testosterone, naturally I felt great.
00:44:44.420 All my energy was back and, um, I had a massive spike in my sex drive and I felt I started to
00:44:51.180 develop a competitive streak and I became more confident.
00:44:54.640 Um, but at the same time, it was a little, a little bit more difficult to regulate my, um,
00:45:01.640 my emotions, particularly, um, my anger.
00:45:07.860 Yeah.
00:45:08.320 And you mentioned this, this aggression, they, and they, they've said, and they show it
00:45:12.380 study after study shows this, that testosterone of course increases aggression.
00:45:16.560 It's something by the way that men deal with at an early age that we, you know, we, we are
00:45:22.120 prone to anger, uh, a lot more and because of men's physical, uh, you know, stature, even,
00:45:29.540 even when you're young, right.
00:45:30.560 You know, that's why there's a lot of fistfights that go on.
00:45:33.220 I've got two little boys, you know, I've got to pull them apart from time to time when they
00:45:36.940 want to, they're both going for the same toy or something.
00:45:40.160 And, and then even that continues on into, you mentioned middle school, but then even
00:45:44.140 high school to some extent, and, and you learn that you have to, you have to regulate
00:45:47.840 that yourself, right.
00:45:49.520 Because you don't want to just go through life, um, answering everything with aggression
00:45:53.600 and anger and physical, uh, you know, physical, um, you know, violence in some cases, but,
00:45:58.620 but we also, and I think Jordan Peterson even mentions this, that he talks about how all,
00:46:02.820 all male to male relations have this sort of underlying, um, subtext of, you know, we could
00:46:09.080 do this another way, but we're gonna, you know, we're going to, we're going to do this through,
00:46:13.680 through talk and, and speech.
00:46:15.260 But, but I can't even imagine that if you're, if you're just being, you're given this by
00:46:19.960 some doctor at some point in an aggressive way, very, it sounds like very ramped up and
00:46:24.320 straight to surgery that there's, there's no explanation whatsoever about how to deal
00:46:28.540 with these things or what changes to expect or how you should act because there's no playbook
00:46:34.300 whatsoever.
00:46:35.000 So, and I didn't grow up with that.
00:46:36.860 Yeah.
00:46:37.360 It just came on suddenly.
00:46:38.460 It was very abrupt.
00:46:39.960 Yeah.
00:46:40.380 Completely abrupt.
00:46:41.260 So, you know, how would you know?
00:46:42.320 Because I'm sure, are they, are they sitting there talking to you, explaining to you that
00:46:46.180 this is how you have to deal with it?
00:46:47.720 Everything that they, that they talked about with me was in very vague terms.
00:46:51.260 And, um, of course it was being given to me.
00:46:56.660 It was the, uh, the prescription for these things were given to me by a female.
00:47:03.500 So, so she wouldn't understand what it was like to say, I don't mean to laugh, I'm just
00:47:08.640 saying, of course, right.
00:47:09.620 Cause that's ridiculous because someone who has no idea what any of these hormones even
00:47:14.500 feel like.
00:47:15.380 So you've got to the point where you've launched this lawsuit and I apologize for, um, cause
00:47:21.680 we're, you know, we're, we're coming up on time, but tell us a little bit about the
00:47:24.940 lawsuit where the, what is, what specifically are you seeking here and how can people get involved?
00:47:30.900 Um, yeah, so, um, Harmeet Dillon with, uh, Center for American Liberty, um, is, is my attorney
00:47:43.420 and we filed the suit recently, um, just a few weeks ago and we, uh, the parties that
00:47:54.080 were suing are my surgeon, um, the hospital that I had surgery at my gender specialist
00:48:00.820 who referred me to surgery and endocrinologist who put me on hormones as well as, um, Kaiser
00:48:06.740 Permanente, which is both my healthcare provider and my, um, my insurance provider.
00:48:11.860 So it's, it's a pretty huge undertaking, but my, my hope in, in this lawsuit is that not
00:48:24.000 only that I can get justice for myself and get the care that I need because, um, I haven't
00:48:30.500 gotten any help with, um, with any of the complications that I've had with transitioning or even
00:48:35.540 with, with going through the de-transition, but I also want to, I hope that I can create
00:48:42.080 a precedent for other de-transitioners and other people who have been harmed through these
00:48:46.280 treatments to be able to get justice for themselves as well.
00:48:51.260 That's absolutely great.
00:48:51.940 Where can people go to find out more about that and where to follow you?
00:48:54.800 So my lawsuit, the information and the fundraiser for my lawsuit is available on the Center for
00:49:02.720 American Liberty website.
00:49:04.640 And I, I'm, I'm active on Twitter and Instagram at C H triple O C O L.
00:49:11.920 Chloe Cole, God bless you.
00:49:13.700 Thank you.
00:49:14.400 Seriously.
00:49:14.840 Thank you so much for sharing so much of your story with us.
00:49:17.440 That was incredible.
00:49:18.480 And I know for the folks back home who want to get involved, please go follow Chloe.
00:49:22.840 Please donate to her lawsuit.
00:49:24.980 We need to share this story with as many people as possible so we can understand what's going
00:49:30.480 on and help other people that are caught in the same situation.
00:49:34.900 Again, God bless you.
00:49:35.640 God bless your family.
00:49:37.020 Thank you.