How Washington Started the New Cold War w⧸ Scott Horton
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Summary
Trump's return offers a chance to rewrite the narrative of hostilities. His administration's focus on negotiation reflects a desire to end hostilities. To truly understand how Trump might end the war in Ukraine, we must first grasp how it began. And the seeds of peace were sown long before the conflict began. They were planted with every diplomatic misstep, every strategic expansion, and every covert operation.
Transcript
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this is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare
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a commentator international social media sensation and former navy intelligence veteran
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this is human events with your host jack persovic christ is five four three two one zero
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step right up folks here's the answer to your problem you'll have the bountiful benefit of higher
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wages shorter hours and security why ism even makes the weather perfect every day all you have to do
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is sign this little scrap of paper and you'll get your bottle absolutely free i hereby turn over to
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ism incorporated everything i have including my freedom and the freedom of my children and my
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children's children in return for which said ism promises to take care of me forever paul and patty
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know this no matter where they go or what they do they always try to remember what to do if the atom bomb
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explodes right then it's a bomb duck can cover mr gorbachev tear down this wall
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it's being reported that president biden has lifted restrictions on ukraine using u.s weapons to
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strike deeper inside russia falling down to a russian leader i think it's outrageous it's dangerous and
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in the updated version of the document aggression against russia by any non-nuclear state but with the
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support of a nuclear state is proposed to be considered as their joint attack on russia
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russia will also consider the possibility of using nuclear weapons when receiving reliable information
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about a massive launch of means of aerospace attack and their crossing of our state border
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this includes strategic and tactical aircraft as well as cruise missiles and drones hypersonic and
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other delivery vehicles russia reserves the right to use nuclear weapons in case of aggression
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including if the enemy using conventional weapons poses a critical threat
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all right jack pasomic here we are human events daily
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ladies and gentlemen we are witnessing a defining moment in history
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of president trump with his unyielding commitment to peace is poised to end the war in ukraine a conflict
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that was never inevitable but rather a consequence of years of geopolitical maneuvering trump strategy is clear
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years of geopolitical maneuvering. Trump's strategy is clear. Bring both sides to the
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negotiation table, leveraging his unique diplomatic style to forge an end to this tragedy.
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Now, let's not forget this war didn't need to happen. It was a direct result of actions
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and policies that have been largely ignored or misrepresented by the mainstream media.
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The United States, through its covert operations in Ukraine, has played a significant yet under
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discussed role in stoking the conflict. The New York Times this year recently shed light
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on this, revealing a network of 12 CIA bases in Ukraine. These weren't just outposts.
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They were training grounds for Ukrainian operatives, including assassination teams aimed at, quote,
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countering Russian influence, but also have conducted, in fact, one general recently, assassinations
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within Russia itself. This kind of activity hidden in the shadows has undeniably contributed
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to the escalation. Furthermore, the expansion of NATO into Eastern Europe has been a provocative
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move, one that the Russians have viewed as an encroachment on itself. The promise of NATO
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membership for Ukraine was seen as a direct threat by NATO, by Moscow, echoing the concerns
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of many Russian leaders since the Cold War's end. Yet this narrative is seldom explored in
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mainstream discourse, which prefers to paint a picture of unprovoked aggression rather than
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a complex tapestry of cause and effect. Trump's approach to this conflict isn't about perpetuating
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the cycle of blame or military engagement. It's about negotiation. His advisors have outlined
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plans where the current battle lines could potentially be frozen using both incentives and disincentives
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to compel both Ukraine and Russia to engage in a meaningful dialogue, and would include, by the
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way, halting NATO membership for Ukraine in exchange for peace. It's called a pragmatic solution.
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To truly understand how Trump might end the war, we first must grasp how it began. And the seeds of this
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conflict were sown long before tanks rolled across Ukrainian soil. They were planted with every covert
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operation, every diplomatic misstep, every strategic expansion, the CIA bases, the NATO enlargement.
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These are not just footnotes. They are chapters in the story of how we got here. And Trump's return
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offers a chance to rewrite this narrative shift from a story of war to one of peace. His administration's
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focus on negotiation over hostilities reflects a desire to end not just the fighting, but the underlying situation
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that took place. And ladies and gentlemen, we are going to understand that situation in full detail today.
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Stay tuned as Human Events brings you the truth about Ukraine.
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Today, you know, they talk about influencers. These are influencers. And they're friends of mine.
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Jack Kosovic. Where's Jack? Jack? He's done a great job.
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All right, Jack Kosovic. We are back here on Human Events. I want to introduce you to today's
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guest. And we're going to be going through the entire Ukraine story, maybe a couple other stories
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along the way with him. It is Scott Horton from antiwar.com and the author of the new book. You got
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to get this book. You will read it in one sitting. It will change the way that you look at American
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modern history, possibly even past history. It has provoked how Washington started the new cold war
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with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine. He joins us now. Scott, how are you?
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I'm doing great. Thank you so much for having me, Jack. Great to be back with you.
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Well, I think it's incredible, you know, because when you and I were first chatting about this,
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you know, the election was still kind of going on and, you know, we weren't sure who was going to win.
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Now Donald Trump has won the election. His administration is coming in and, you know,
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the antiwar. So antiwar has become a huge watchword of MAGA, of America first. It's something
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that J.D. Vance is talking about. David Sachs is talking about. Tucker Carlson's in there. I,
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myself, of course, talk about this all the time. So I think we really are and you have really put
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this book out at the perfect time to give people a true understanding of what has gone on that got
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us into this big mess in the first place. Yeah. Well, I appreciate you and all the America
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first efforts. I mean, remember that that phrase comes from defend America first. That's what it
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really meant. That's the great book by Garrett Garrett, his collected essays from the Saturday
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Evening Post saying that, look, France is not America's eastern frontier. Well, I would agree
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with that and I would submit to you that Ukraine also is not America's eastern frontier. This is 7,000
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miles even from Washington, D.C. And they've essentially just wandered into a neighborhood where
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they have no business and got their friend in a fight in the most unfair kind of a way is what's
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really happened here. And now Donald Trump has run on peace. Remember in the debate, they said,
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don't you mean you want to help Ukraine win? And he said, I want to end it. It's too dangerous
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to allow the war to continue at all. And Jack, I'm sure you must have heard him say this. He talks
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about this from time to time over the decades he has that Donald Trump had an uncle who taught at MIT,
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the greatest uncle, the greatest scientist in the world. And he taught Trump all about H-bombs
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in a way that a lot of us don't get a real education in nuclear weapons. Well, Trump got a real
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education in nuclear weapons and he is rightfully terrified of them and rightfully has decided that
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it just doesn't make any sense for America to have a contest with Russia over something as trivial as
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the eastern border of Ukraine. And especially when the American side did so much to cause the
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controversy in the first place, there must be a way that we can ramp this thing down and have a
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negotiated settlement and guarantee to turn the risk of nuclear war way back down towards zero again.
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And what's amazing is you've got nominees up there. Obviously, J.D. Vance is coming in as the
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vice president, Pete Hegseth at SECDEF, Tulsi Gabbard as the DNI, so the director of national intelligence.
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And the Wall Street Journal kind of ran this, you know, the neocons at the Wall Street Journal ran
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an attack piece on all of them saying Trump keeps appointing angry veterans of the global war on
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terror to his to his administration. And I said, no, that's specifically what he said he was going to
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do, as a matter of fact. And these are people, by the way, who saw firsthand where this stuff can go,
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at least on just that level, on a kinetic level, not to mention a nuclear level. And so I think
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it's perfect that it's actually people that have experienced war up front, these combat veterans
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saying, hey, guys, we need to pump the brakes on this stuff. And I know less about the secretary
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of defense, but I can tell you about Tulsi Gabbard that, you know, this whole controversy about her,
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they claim that, oh, she's pro-Russia and pro-Assad in Syria. Well, all that happened,
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Jack, was she was in Iraq War II. She was stationed at the Balad Air Base north of Baghdad
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at a time when they were taking fire. They call her a combat veteran, not because she was pulling
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triggers, but because she was getting shelled at the base where she was in a medical unit.
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So I don't know particular anecdotes, but presumably she saw boys die in there who had been fighting the
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Sunni-based insurgency, the vanguard of which was al-Qaeda in Iraq. It was just a couple of years
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later that Barack Obama and the rest of the Washington Consensus, led by Senator McCain
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on the Republican side as well, said that, no, these guys are the moderate rebels. We like them now.
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John McCain even went and met with the Northern Storm Brigade, who had told Time Magazine a month
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before he went and met with them that they were proud veterans of Iraq, where they had fought against
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America under essentially under Zarqawi as part of al-Qaeda in Iraq against the Americans in Iraq
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War II. But now in Syria, they're heroes because now they're fighting the Shiites. And so that's
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what Israel wants. And so that's what the American War Party wants. And she's saying, I'm sorry,
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I can still tell you the shirts from the skins and I'm not switching sides in this thing after what
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I've seen in Iraq. So in other words, what was the difference between her and everybody else
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on the political scene at that time? She knew what she was talking about. And they were all just
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bluffing and going along with, well, I guess we're supposed to all say now Assad's a dictator and
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whoever's fighting him is a hero. When people who know about it know that, no, the people fighting
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him are not heroes at all. They're the bad guys. And at the very heart of it, I remember her saying that
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if Assad does leave, then whoever takes over in his place might potentially be a thousand times worse.
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And she specifically pointed to these al-Qaeda Sunni groups. And that's exactly who ended up or
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seems to at least have at this point stepped in to fill that vacuum. I said, wait a minute,
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why? And they say, oh, well, we should be very upset about this. I said, wait, I'm trying to explain.
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And I say this as a guy who's a former intel officer myself. I say, you want me to be upset that
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she got it right. And the very thing that she said was going to happen is in fact what happened.
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That sounds like someone who should actually be in charge, not punished for it.
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Yeah. Well, and you know, it's funny, man. I read this thing in the New York times.
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That is just like a public relations. It's even like the Ukraine stuff. It's just,
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it's like, it's like you, you have all the facts, but they, they just tell you the story backwards
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or something. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Right. Exactly. Right. So they just say,
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well, look, they emphasize that Jolani, the leader of Al Qaeda in Syria is not as psycho as Baghdadi,
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the leader of ISIS. That's so nice. Fewer head chopping, but otherwise they're exactly the same.
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Who are these guys? They are the bin Laden chopped off as many heads as Baghdadi. He's far, far less.
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By the way, I feel like, I feel like when he did that CNN interview, the puff piece on him,
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that they, uh, that they must've put him through, I guess the same finishing school as Zalinski.
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Cause he's got, he's got the beard, he's got the green fatigues. He he's even using that like
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clipped, you know, cadence. It's like, uh, there were some people online were making memes of Jolani
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and Zalinski together. I said, man, it's like the same exact thing. You know, back, um, a few
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years ago, sort of in the meantime, between the worst of Obama's dirty war and the current one
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there. Now, uh, there was a time when the Turks were, did a push with frontline PBS and they had
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Martin Smith, the famous producer from frontline do this puff piece on Assad. And I had joked at the
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time, they must be listening to my show because I would always say, listen, take one look at Assad.
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Okay. Just look at him, your honor. Like on idiocracy, just look at him. He wears a three
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piece suit. He shapes his chin in the ring. And that means that he's a secular dictator and not
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a bin Laden night suicide bomber. And in this case, that's everything. Okay. And look at the other
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side. The guy's got a turban and a beard and he's dressed up like bin Laden and he sends legions of
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suicide bombers out to do suicide bombings and chop people's heads off. And so that's the difference.
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And then what do they do? They literally dressed him up in a three piece suit, including the vest.
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Yep. And everything. And had him sit there and parent, they, he didn't shave his beard off.
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They weren't going to do that, but, but I bet they trimmed it anyway. And they had him sit there
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and essentially say he's clearly under Turkish control, i.e. American control that listen for
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public relations reasons. We need you to tone down the crazy so that you can get rid of the Shiites
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for us. That's what you're here for. And he has gone along with that. But the thing is, Jack,
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as I'm sure you anticipate as well, if he really is just going to kowtow to America and Israel for
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the longterm, then somebody is going to shoot him in the head and replace him anyway. I mean,
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these guys are head shopping lunatics in, you know, as their basic political philosophy,
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there's sort of like, um, Patrick Coburn called ISIS, the Islamist Khmer Rouge, right? Like they're
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bananas actors. They cannot be relied on to hold down any kind of stable regime in any one place.
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So it's going to just be chaos there. And, and, and, and for a lot, and, and obviously, you know,
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we're, we're talking about this because it just happened, but it happened because of many of the
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same reasons and many of the same covert operations and many of the same lies about from our government
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and lies about what's actually going on that happened in Ukraine. And I do want to get into
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that in the book and we'll do so in the next segment, but, you know, obviously anyone who's trying
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to make sense of the Syria situation, just understand it's a very, very similar case to
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what happened there, to what happened in, of course, Libya. And if you want to look at,
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you know, a test case for what happened here, okay, you had Muammar Gaddafi. I'm not saying
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that he's some champion of democratic values or, you know, a Jeffersonian enlightenment,
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Lockean, you know, philosopher. No, of course not. Fine. But what was he replaced with? What was
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Saddam Hussein replaced with in Iraq? If you really think that this is making the world better
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to support these movements like the Arab spring? Well, guess what? Syria is next. And the dirty
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little secret that the U S government doesn't want you to know is that so many of these movements
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of these organizations, many of which tied to the Muslim brotherhood to the Sunnis there
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are directly funded and supported by our U S government. It's not happening by accident.
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Go look at Pakistan, Pakistan, the CIA's secret basement, uh, where the Taliban first crawled out
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of in the first place. And so you're worried about these things, ladies and gentlemen,
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don't look overseas. The, actually the problem is right here at home. We're on with Scott Horton of
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anti-war.com. His book provoked it's about Ukraine, but it's actually about us. Stay tuned. We'll be
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When I'm working long hours, I'm always listening to human events with Jack Posobiec.
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All right, Jack Posobiec. We are back on live. We're talking about the truth about how Washington
00:18:24.380
provoked a new cold war with Russia. And we're on with author Scott Horton of the book provoked,
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which essentially tells that the next story, Scott, let's go back and to really when all of these
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things kicked off and the wonderful end of history, the end of the cold war Fukuyama statement comes
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out, uh, the unipolar moment has begun. The United States has won. Democracy has won. Communism has been
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killed. Yeah. The good guys won. And then something happened though, where NATO, which was set up to, uh,
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fight the Soviet union had to come up with a new justification for its existence. And a lot of
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people, by the way, Donald Trump himself pointed out several times, why does NATO still exist if the
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Soviet union doesn't anymore? Their enemy went away. Well, it seems that in the 1990s and throughout
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that end of history moment, the seeds of the new conflicts that we see now were, were planted and
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have now born fruit. Yeah, that's right. And I think if you go back to, and not, this is not the
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conspiracy version. This is the straight version of when HW Bush announced the new world order, he
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wasn't really talking about one world government conspiracy stuff. He was saying America rules the
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world. Now the USA is the world government. And as we saw, as the doctrine was implemented, especially
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by his successors, Bill Clinton and his son, and then Barack Obama as well. What that means is that
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the actual world law, not that I'm the greatest fan of this, but this is the treaty that everyone
00:20:07.920
signed, the UN charter, that that actually is obsolete now. Now, instead we have the American led order,
00:20:15.760
whereas Bush senior said, what we say goes. And so that means they can start wars without a UN
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security council vote, or even a declaration of war from Congress or any other real authority.
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And essentially it's all built on this self-righteous justification that if we weren't holding the
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world down, then it would burst into flames. It would all go to hell and it would either be us or
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the Russians or the Chinese or some other horrible power would take over the world. So we have to take
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it over, but not call it that. We just have to be the hedge funds of the world to prevent badness from
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breaking out. That's essentially the justification. And so from the beginning, in spite of their solemn
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vows and promises and agreements with the Soviets, and then later the Russians, they expanded their
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influence, not just into the Middle East, we all know that story, but expanded the NATO military
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alliance into Eastern Europe and right up to Russia's borders, including the Baltic States.
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They did the color-coded revolutions. Well, first the Balkan Wars, and then the color-coded
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revolutions. Oh, did I skip Bill Clinton when I talked about lawless wars? Clinton did Kosovo,
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then Bush did Iraq, then Obama did Libya. No, I did say Clinton. So anyway, the color-coded revolutions
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against friends of Russia in their near abroad, including Ukraine twice in 10 years, Bush Jr. in
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2004 and Obama again in 2014, put their thumb on America's thumb on the scale in the uprisings
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there and the protest movements there to facilitate. So you're talking about what you're talking about
00:21:53.000
are a series of color revolutions. And we've, we've covered cover color revolutions here on the
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program a number of times, but essentially what these are, are they take these, you know, it might
00:22:04.320
start out as a legitimate, but, you know, small, you know, movement somewhere in one of these other
00:22:10.860
countries. In some cases, it may not exist. The Arab Spring, by the way, I just mentioned, of course,
00:22:15.520
is an example of this. In some cases, the organization itself might have always been started
00:22:20.100
by USAID or some CIA front group or U.S. front group overseas. And they are able to turn this into
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a national protest to try essentially to get the government to fall. And what they're doing really
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is I've always read the color revolutions as an attempt to recreate the end of the Soviet Union
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over and over and over again to say, okay, well, we don't like this government and this worked this
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one time. So we're just going to try it over and over and over. And it does seem to work. The
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template usually is they dispute an election and they go, well, we have exit polls and our exit polls
00:22:56.960
say that our God won not this kind of thing, refuse to accept defeat. And then, yes, oftentimes you're
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talking about a very poor country like Ukraine or Georgia. And then these NGOs come in with tens
00:23:06.580
of millions of dollars to support. By the way, this just happened in Romania. This just happened
00:23:11.060
in Romania like last week where it's happening in Georgia as well right now where, yeah, they were
00:23:17.800
defeated. The Soros candidate was defeated. And then all of a sudden it's like, no, no, we don't
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like that election. We don't like those results. So, you know, we're going to cancel the next election.
00:23:27.600
And then in Romania, the one that drove me wild was they said, we don't like the results. And Russia
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got, you know, interfered. Well, how do you know? And he said, oh, we think there were some TikTok
00:23:37.740
videos. They they promoted some TikTok videos of the candidate and therefore Russia interfered. So
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they they actually canceled the election. And I believe they're going to rerun the first iteration
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again of the presidential election in in a NATO EU country.
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Right. And again, as everyone is familiar, all of this is in the name of democracy.
00:24:01.980
But see, this goes to the heart of it, right? Like, forget the most cynical arms dealers and
00:24:06.620
the most cynical liars and whatever in the thing. If you take even the most sort of public spirited
00:24:12.980
take on this thing that, no, really, we're just trying to spread, as George Soros calls them,
00:24:18.180
open societies in the world. We are talking about a lot of backwards, corrupt dictatorships or sort of
00:24:24.700
pseudo fake democracies and this kind of thing. And so you might really wish that they had regular
00:24:30.480
elections in an independent judiciary and open public corruption bureau and everything is just
00:24:36.340
great over there. But imagine, Jack, really, the U.S. empire going to such lengths to create such
00:24:42.420
democratic systems in other people's countries. But then, oh, they don't care who wins the election,
00:24:47.360
though. They're perfectly happy to see the other side win and the American guy lose or the pro-Western
00:24:52.740
guy lose. Yeah, right. There's has to be built in no matter what a conflict of interest in all of this
00:24:59.720
stuff. There's no way that it can be just so selfless that all they really want is the people of the world
00:25:05.020
to be free unless being free means just like democracy means when the Democrats win and get what
00:25:12.280
they want. Otherwise, they'll frame you for treason, whether it's Trump or whether it's what's his name
00:25:16.620
in Romania, and they'll depose you and cheat and do what they have to do to maintain their power.
00:25:22.060
And so that's the key. It's just like a cop who can get away with running a red light or even
00:25:26.580
killing a hooker or something. And like the law doesn't apply to the law enforcer a lot of the
00:25:31.860
times. And in that case, it's us. It's the middle part. Or if or if you're or if you're the or if
00:25:38.400
you're the nephew of a wealthy and well-connected legal family in Pennsylvania and your your
00:25:45.160
girlfriend mysteriously stabs herself 20 times, including 10 times in the back. And it just so
00:25:50.240
happens that Josh Shapiro, the attorney general, is a family friend that suddenly it gets ruled a
00:25:55.380
suicide. I I bring that up as a hypothetical. That's not a reference to anything that I've been
00:25:59.720
covering here on the show. I actually only just read that story for the first time the other day,
00:26:04.640
and they were talking about it like everybody knows this story. And I was like, what? I totally
00:26:08.300
missed this. I've been working on a book for a year or two. I've been I was I've been I've been
00:26:13.480
going down the road on on that one quite, quite, quite extensively. I'll have to show you I'll have
00:26:17.880
to send you the podcast we did on it. But, you know, again, you're it's it is the powerful Ellen
00:26:23.920
Greenberger's name, by the way, for folks who want to look this up. The for folks in power,
00:26:28.820
they stay in power and they attempt to expand their power. It is something that is historic.
00:26:34.600
We've seen power act this way across centuries. Mearsheimer talks about this, by the way,
00:26:39.380
as an understanding of this is how great powers operate. But it seems as though and I like the way
00:26:44.620
Mearsheimer frames it, because he says the United States is attempting to achieve something beyond
00:26:50.080
great power status in the fact where they want to be this sort of global hegemon. And this is why,
00:26:56.740
by the way, you can go to Washington, D.C., and you'll see furious op eds from members of both
00:27:02.900
Republican and Democrat parties arguing that, you know, everyone needs to focus on some conflict or
00:27:10.280
some border that is thousands of miles away. And don't worry about the public crime issues in your
00:27:16.640
hometown or the fentanyl zombies meandering around. No, this thing that's happening in some desert or
00:27:23.360
some desolate Eurasian, you know, the winterized tundra is something that you should be totally
00:27:30.620
focused on. And by the way, I still do this. I still go to newsstands. I know nobody does it
00:27:35.700
anymore. But I go to newsstands and I try almost every morning to look at the cover of the Washington
00:27:40.240
Post and New York Times. I get to tell and the Wall Street Journal, Ukraine is on the cover almost
00:27:45.360
every single day. Every once in a while, they change it out with Syria. But then they go right back to
00:27:50.180
Ukraine. It's like, is this really the most important thing that you wonder why nobody reads
00:27:54.520
it anymore? But it's something that is really being tried so hard to be jammed down the throats
00:27:59.220
of the American people. And and look for I call it the regime. Other people call it the uniparty.
00:28:05.600
Mike Benz calls it the blob, whatever name people want to use for it. You know, I think that we've all
00:28:11.460
realized that and the 2024 election was a huge part of this, that something has gone wrong and a
00:28:17.000
disconnect took place between the people of this country and the people who are running
00:28:20.760
it because their interests and the interests of the people who live here are simply in no way
00:28:25.660
connected. Yeah. And, you know, the real problem is that these guys are sure what heroes they are.
00:28:32.520
I mean, there's a great quote. I'm sure you're familiar with this, where someone had confronted
00:28:36.300
John Laughlin, who had been the acting director of the CIA, but was a longtime CIA guy, senior
00:28:43.000
official. And someone said, you know, Donald Trump says you're all the deep state or something like
00:28:50.700
that was the question. And he says, well, thank God for the deep state, because let me tell you
00:28:56.000
something. This is at the height of Russiagate hoaxery. I remember this. I remember he says,
00:29:00.980
let me tell you something. The problem is not at Fort Meade or at the Hoover building or in Langley.
00:29:07.500
The problem is at 1600 Pennsylvania. Now, if Donald Trump was really a traitor and a suborn,
00:29:14.860
blackmailed slave of Vladimir Putin, then I guess maybe. But you notice that the CIA and the NSA,
00:29:22.480
they're completely post-constitutional national security state structures. The FBI as a Bureau of
00:29:28.240
the Department of Justice might be constitutional in a sense, but they're way outside of their writ when,
00:29:34.620
as we all know now, and a lot of us knew then, but we all know now it was the FBI that was framing
00:29:40.220
him for this treason in the first place. I mean, the CIA started it and FBI really continued the
00:29:45.020
whole thing of framing of the president on this ridiculous hoax. And then they use that to say,
00:29:49.940
John Laughlin was just perfectly proud to say, listen, we're the secret police. We do what we
00:29:55.040
think is right. If the president, we decide. There is a whole, there is a whole media infrastructure
00:30:02.900
of Hollywood and books and TV shows that are pushed everywhere in our society. Every single
00:30:11.060
airport you walk through to lionize the FBI, lionize the CIA, lionize these agencies and act
00:30:17.380
as if they are some sort of secret superhero. When in fact, what's being done is that fantasy is
00:30:24.340
being pushed. So you don't pay attention to what the real ones are actually doing right back. Scott
00:30:28.260
And Jack, where's Jack? Where's Jack? Where is he? Jack, I want to see you.
00:30:42.760
Great job, Jack. Thank you. What a job you do. You know, we have an incredible thing. We're always
00:30:48.080
talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys and these are the guys should be getting
00:30:53.040
policies. All right, Jack Posobiec. We are back here. Human events daily folks go and support our
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sponsors like today's episode sponsor, which allow us to do programs like this, that tell you stories
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slash POSO and use promo code POSO to save up to $120 plus free shipping. That's twc.health slash POSO. So Scott,
00:32:33.080
we've been talking about the US government and this mentality that you see within the intelligence
00:32:39.460
community. I say that as a recovering intelligence officer. So I like to say that I certainly knew people
00:32:45.680
like this. And I still know people like this, friends I know who stayed in. And I'm like, guys, you know, why do
00:32:51.120
you care this much about Syria? And this does not affect the homeland in any way. And, you know, no amount of
00:32:57.640
Charles Lister articles are going to change that. And the I guess that walk me through then how these
00:33:05.100
how these heroes decided that Viktor Yanukovych was someone who couldn't possibly be allowed to
00:33:18.400
OK, so this is a very interesting question. This comes down. This is the Maidan revolution of the Obama
00:33:23.980
Biden period there. And so what happened essentially was and Jack, I'll recommend to you,
00:33:30.220
you watch this great interview with Paul Manafort, the falsely accused handler of Trump for Putin in
00:33:38.040
the Russiagate hoax. Same guy who is Trump's campaign manager. He did an interview with Patrick
00:33:43.960
Bette David, who is, I guess, a pretty famous and prominent podcaster now. And it's a really
00:33:49.300
insightful interview where he explains that Yanukovych wanted to move west. People say, oh,
00:33:54.980
he was just Putin's puppet. Not true. And certainly Manafort wasn't in anything. And I don't know this,
00:34:00.960
but I'm saying it would fit. If anything, Manafort was CIA. He certainly had the cufflinks and the
00:34:06.540
hairstyle and whatever to be like their kind of guy, I think. But if he wasn't CIA, he certainly was not
00:34:14.260
operating contrary to their interests or America's interests whatsoever. And people may have all
00:34:20.600
different opinions about Manafort. But I'm telling you, you watch that interview with Patrick
00:34:24.520
Bette David. We've we've actually believe it or not, we've actually had Manafort here on this program.
00:34:29.980
And he said very much the same thing. It was a while back. I've got to I'll have to make a note
00:34:34.580
with the producers to re up that one, because he said the very same thing when I asked him about
00:34:37.920
Yanukovych. I was like, look, I got to ask you about Ukraine. We do geopolitics here.
00:34:41.540
What was the deal with Yanukovych? He said, no, Yanukovych wanted to move west.
00:34:46.220
But as Ukraine is this in in in Russian means at the border, it is the frontier land. It is that
00:34:55.940
that bridge between east and west. And so what he was saying, what what Manafort, the way he explained
00:35:01.920
it was he wanted to open up to the EU, but didn't want to completely shut off Russia either.
00:35:08.180
Right. And yet the EU insisted that it has to be one or the other. And I think ultimately
00:35:15.580
pooped it to Putin sent mixed signals about this. But I think he was pretty stern on it
00:35:20.020
as well, because he was worried about Russia, you know, protectionist reasons. He was worried
00:35:25.360
about Russia being flooded with finished, cheaper finished goods from Europe through Ukraine
00:35:30.300
and undermining, you know, Russian industry that way. And people in the east were quite a bit
00:35:35.920
concerned about that as well, at least some of them. But so I would cite actually George Soros
00:35:41.580
himself said to the Guardian that it was all Angela Merkel's fault, that she ruined the negotiations
00:35:49.660
because she was just a bad negotiator. And she played too hard of hardball. Essentially,
00:35:55.140
Russia was willing to offer, I think, $15 billion worth of loans and the West five. And it was like
00:36:01.180
barely enough for them to roll over their debt and just pay their interest on their debt from last
00:36:05.160
time. And meanwhile, they're going to have to slash pensions, slash subsidies for fuel. This is
00:36:09.520
a very poor country. Slash, you know, pensions and subsidies for poor people so that they can balance
00:36:15.500
the budget on their back and pay the West. And Putin was just offering a sweeter deal, essentially.
00:36:21.920
And they make all their money off of Russian gas coming through those pipes. So they're already,
00:36:26.340
you know, pretty dependent on him economically. And so Merkel blew it. That was the way George Soros
00:36:31.900
took it, was that Merkel had blown the thing up. So he didn't actually even officially cancel the deal.
00:36:37.620
By the way, this is an association agreement with the EU, not full membership. But what he did was he
00:36:43.520
postponed it. But that was enough to set off many genuine believers, right? People always say,
00:36:49.500
oh, you're denying the agency of the locals. But listen, the truth is, and Jack, I'm sure you
00:36:54.080
understand this better than most, that America's done something like 50 coups or something. I have a
00:36:59.460
ridiculously long paragraph where I list politicians in the third world, especially who've been
00:37:04.680
overthrown by the United States since World War II. And in every single case, of course, there are
00:37:09.640
locals who are willing and ready and able. And with some of these guys, you're lucky if all they do is
00:37:14.320
overthrow you, by the way. Well, that's right. Yeah, it can be much worse. But there's always,
00:37:19.140
of course, a local team of people who are willing to accept the power. It's always on behalf, not of
00:37:24.540
just America, but on behalf of one faction over the other, the faction that we favor over the one
00:37:29.080
that we don't. And so, you know, the most famous... Which, by the way, this is the same thing that the
00:37:35.420
British Empire used to do. And if you go all the way back, it's what the Roman Empire used to do.
00:37:41.720
Yeah. And so, you know, in this case, essentially what happened was
00:37:49.020
there are people who, in the east of the... Pardon me, especially in the west of the country,
00:37:56.740
but really anywhere but maybe the far east of the country, who very much wanted to be out from
00:38:01.000
under Russia's shadow. So when the trade deal was canceled, they took that as total capitulation to
00:38:07.220
Russia and the further enslavement of Ukraine under Russian control and all that. And they
00:38:12.520
really rebelled about that. They had their own opinions about that. But then the Americans came
00:38:17.480
in and dumped tens of millions of dollars to support them. And it was all American NGOs and
00:38:22.980
officially, you know, USAID and NED, IRI and NDI, but then also many different George Soros-backed and
00:38:31.040
Pierre Omidyar-backed NGOs that came. And they were the ones who supported the whole movement,
00:38:36.500
which is essentially this giant carnival that lasted for almost three months throughout December,
00:38:41.160
January, and February of 13 and into 14 there until essentially what they were trying to do was
00:38:48.600
push through a deal. The protesters really wanted the president to quit, but the Americans and the
00:38:53.820
Europeans decided what they wanted him to do was at least agree to early elections and put their guy
00:38:58.700
in as prime minister, which is itself a form of coup, whatever the French call it exactly. It was
00:39:03.620
the American superpower forcing him to capitulate and fire his prime minister and hire their guy
00:39:09.760
and agree to early elections that he would be sure to lose. But then what happened was the Nazis in
00:39:15.700
the street refused to accept the compromise. And they said, the president doesn't leave town by 10
00:39:20.500
a.m. We're going to put a bullet in his head. And it was a credible threat. Andrew Kramer from the New
00:39:24.720
York Times said, this is a credible threat. The crowd said, yes, yes. And we know now, Jack,
00:39:29.280
the guy who jumped up on the stage and declared that the deal is null and void. We're going to
00:39:34.100
murder him tomorrow. His name was Paris Yuck. And he was the same guy who led the sniper team at the
00:39:39.660
music conservatory that got the whole shootout started the day before. And so and that's widely
00:39:46.720
reported BBC, foreign policy, Alger, whatever you call it, the German one, and also BNE and Telenews.
00:39:53.920
They all have that, that Paris Yuck was the leader of the sniper team in the music conservatory.
00:39:58.820
Same guy jumped up on the stage and said, I'll kill the president tomorrow morning if he ain't
00:40:02.600
gone by then. And he was. He took off and fled the country. So it was a street and instead in the end.
00:40:08.900
And then after this, you essentially get a a small group of ultra nationalists who are installed.
00:40:17.220
You have the as of battalion that's brought in as their streets, their street arm. So the street
00:40:26.380
violent arm, the shock troops of all of this. And that leads to the current regime and the breakup
00:40:32.000
of the breakaway provinces and the Russian speaking areas in the east. That's how the Ukraine war
00:40:39.380
started. And there were 12 CIA bases there throughout the time, as we talked about earlier,
00:40:45.880
right back. We're going to wrap up Scott Horton.
00:40:56.720
Jack is a great guy. He's written a fantastic book. Everybody's talking about it. Go get it.
00:41:02.320
And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event.
00:41:06.240
And we're going to turn it around and make our country great again. Amen.
00:41:09.800
So Jack Posobiec, here we are. Scott Horton, final segment of this provoked how the West really led
00:41:21.940
to a new cold war with Russia and the catastrophe in Ukraine, which broke out because Russia decided to
00:41:30.820
not keep the war simply cold after what happened in Ukraine was in fact a coup spurned on by the U.S.
00:41:40.620
So Scott, in the midst of all of this, essentially, you have Kamala Harris and Joe Biden and so many
00:41:48.280
others. They were running over to Europe saying, guess what? The final stage of it is going to be
00:41:52.820
NATO bases inside Ukraine and the Russians. And you hear any of the interviews they give,
00:41:58.400
they constantly say we are worried about military invasion from the West. Why? Because it's happened
00:42:07.240
over and over and over and over in our history. And well, I'll say this as a guy of Polish descent,
00:42:13.640
they do not respond lightly to said invasions and are known for their own provocation as well.
00:42:20.760
And so, you know, I always kind of sit there and say, why would you want to pick a fight with those
00:42:24.500
guys? Have you seen what they do when they start marching? It's not pretty. And why would you see,
00:42:30.740
why would you want to do that when they have more nuclear weapons than anyone else in the world?
00:42:35.800
And I do want to go back to that as we wrap up, because I think you're right. And what you said
00:42:39.460
about President Trump and his understanding of nuclear weapons really is what just kind of
00:42:44.480
pushes through is so many times when he's speaking about Russia and he's speaking about this. As you
00:42:50.560
said, I was there when he met with Putin and held the Helsinki summit back in 2018 in Finland at the
00:42:57.560
presidential palace. And, you know, he didn't say it, but you could tell that he deals with Putin
00:43:04.000
and Xi Jinping and even Kim Jong-un, as we saw on that one on one level in a different way that he
00:43:09.520
deals with other world leaders. And partially that's because he understands that a powerful
00:43:15.080
nuclear armed nation is not a it's like, you know, like dealing with another CEO that you just you
00:43:21.880
can't just push around. And look, I should have said this at the beginning, Jack, and I'll go ahead
00:43:28.260
and say it now so that your audience understands real well. And I know they already know you
00:43:32.340
and they know Donald Trump and all of that. But I'm an American patriot. I'm a Texan. And I don't
00:43:38.540
know really much about Russia or give a damn about Russia. None of what I say here has anything to do
00:43:43.580
with talking points that I learned or got paid to say or any of these silly kind of tropes or even do I
00:43:51.040
have any particular sympathy toward Russia at all. It's just it's the same thing that my previous
00:43:56.160
book is about how America provoked Al Qaeda, their own mercenary terrorist force into turning around
00:44:02.160
and attacking the United States of America and kicking off the whole war on terrorism. Nobody even
00:44:07.040
bothered accusing me of simping for bin Laden. Then I simply explaining why he did what he did and how
00:44:14.080
he was able to convince people to do what he wanted them to do. And it was by citing Bill Clinton's
00:44:19.780
sins. It's the same kind of thing here. I'm not here to argue a brief for the Russian side of the
00:44:25.560
story. And but the thing is, what we're not talking about Stalin and Khrushchev and the Red Army and
00:44:31.960
Soviet enslavement here. We're talking about essentially center-right conservative Russia that
00:44:39.500
has no real need or want to recreate the Russian Empire, certainly not at the expense of their entire
00:44:46.520
relationship with the West as the current crisis has cost them. They only did this because the
00:44:52.620
Americans made them choose to do this now or do it never. Now, I'm not justifying it. The book is
00:44:59.500
called Provoked, Not Justified. And I think that Putin did have other alternatives. But I also think
00:45:05.900
that Joe Biden is a really lousy president and that he spent the first year of his presidency in 21
00:45:12.940
acting all tough while actually demonstrating that he's not tough and not smart at all. You look at his
00:45:19.760
absolute catastrophic failure and decision making that really was just him. It wasn't like it was
00:45:24.980
just guys on the ground. It was his decision to postpone the withdrawal from Afghanistan by four
00:45:29.740
months that led to that catastrophe. That's a whole other interview. I could explain it. But it was his
00:45:34.940
fault that the withdrawal from Afghanistan went completely to hell the way it did. And then he's telling
00:45:42.340
Putin, you better not do it. But he's not willing throughout the fall and the winter of 21. He's
00:45:49.620
not willing to really negotiate. If you look at his phone call with Putin on the 30th of December,
00:45:56.360
he's conciliatory. He says, Vlad, listen, man, I'm not going to bring Ukraine into NATO, not any time in
00:46:02.900
the next decade. And I'm not going to put missiles in Kharkiv and threaten Moscow. What am I crazy? And I have
00:46:08.660
to tell you, I think that was true. I believe that. But he wasn't willing to put it in writing. He wasn't
00:46:13.540
willing because then that's appeasing Hitler. That's giving into the bully. You can never do that. So we're just
00:46:19.560
going to have to shout at him that NATO is a defensive organization and we would never attack you. And he's
00:46:26.480
just going to have to accept that. And all of his protestations about how his security concerns negate that
00:46:33.080
possibility and that he is actually not going to let that happen, notwithstanding. And, you know,
00:46:38.380
as I talk about in the book, and Biden was clear about this, even in his spring interview, this last
00:46:43.780
recent early summer interview with Time magazine, he said, I'm the guy who said, we're not bringing
00:46:47.800
Ukraine into NATO. We're not bringing Ukraine into NATO. We can't. They're way too corrupt in their
00:46:51.760
democracy and their economy. Forget about it. We're not bringing them in. But, and there's the same thing
00:46:56.920
he said in 22, right before the war. We're not bringing them in. But you can't tell us we're not
00:47:02.800
bringing them in. Only we can say we're not bringing them in. And no other nation's security
00:47:07.540
interests can ever be taken into account. That would be a violation of the sacred principle of
00:47:12.160
the open door, which is just some made up crap that they said in 1999. It's just jargon. It doesn't
00:47:17.040
mean anything. They could close the door. Donald Trump could close the door six weeks from now and it
00:47:21.240
would be closed. There's not even really a door, Jack. It's just made up crap. And they said, no,
00:47:25.860
but the principle is no one can tell us that no one can join. So as far as that goes, we insist that
00:47:32.400
Ukraine will become a member of NATO. And that's the war. And this is the mentality. This is the
00:47:40.320
mentality that sets this up. This is the mentality that pushes so many people in the intel community or
00:47:48.460
in the government or the State Department down these lines. It is a form of hubris. It's a form of
00:47:54.920
self-worship. And it's a form of delusion. It's just an absolute delusion. And it's gotten so
00:48:01.880
many people killed. Folks, the book is Provoked, How Washington Started the New Cold War with Russia
00:48:08.220
and the Catastrophe in Ukraine. Scott, thanks so much for being here with us and breaking down this
00:48:13.920
information that many people may not have heard. Thank you, Jack. God bless. Ladies and gentlemen,
00:48:21.440
as always, you have my permission to lay ashore.