Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - SUNDAY SPECIAL： HUMAN EVENTS DEBATE - THE RISE OF CHAT GPT

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00:00:30.000 well ladies and gentlemen welcome aboard to this human event sunday special the great ai debate

00:00:44.240 the rise of the machines are we welcoming our ai overlords or are we going to try to fight them 1.00

00:00:53.720 and actually continue to be human beings or is there potentially a way in between joining me

00:00:59.440 on this who's got lots of feelings about it is the great libby emmons editor-in-chief of the

00:01:04.000 postmillennial and now also the editor-in-chief of human events as well so make sure you go to

00:01:09.280 humanevents.com read everything that libby is going out there and putting uh in terms of the op-eds and

00:01:14.600 the international news and of course subscribe to human events daily the flagship show of human

00:01:19.340 events let me how are you good thanks jack so this there was a story that came out

00:01:27.180 the other day about the ceo of google sundar pinch high and he was actually saying that i thought

00:01:35.340 this was hilarious because he said apparently he came out and said that he didn't know what his ai was

00:01:43.500 doing and apparently it had started to teach itself programming and languages that they did not program

00:01:50.460 it too i said boy it's like it's like he hasn't actually seen a movie ever in his life or something

00:01:57.160 i don't know what like do we actually believe these people don't understand what's going to happen

00:02:02.020 yeah it is sort of amazing that you have these tech people uh entrepreneurs etc ceos moving forward

00:02:09.740 with so much of the tech that has been predicted in our science fiction and speculative fiction for

00:02:16.740 decades if not perhaps centuries and they press on as though there's no indication of where the human

00:02:24.160 imagination will go with this and what could happen even though we see a lot of times the uh

00:02:31.620 the uh imaginings of our best fiction writers come to fruition as time goes by so yeah i was not

00:02:40.380 surprised to find out that uh the google head doesn't really understand ai and that human beings don't

00:02:48.720 necessarily understand it we don't understand our own intelligence so it is not possible for us to

00:02:55.140 fully understand um something that we create to mirror our own intelligence that's not really surprising

00:03:02.040 well i think you're right too but in the same sense that it's it's it's it's the old michael creighton

00:03:10.000 thing right where you know it's it's scientists these guys they spend all their time thinking about

00:03:15.460 what they what could be rather than thinking about what should be uh should we do this uh you know

00:03:22.600 there's the whole the oppenheimer movies coming out very soon where you know he lived the rest of his

00:03:27.900 life you know being very regretful of leading the manhattan project that led to uh you know he said

00:03:34.540 he said i feel like i have blood on my hands whereas i don't know if you if you ever read the story that

00:03:39.140 truman basically threw him out of his office after that yeah it's interesting though because i had that

00:03:44.980 i mean we all think about that you look at that kind of technology and that kind of weapon and you look

00:03:50.080 at the amount of lives that were lost because of that and the destruction that that weapon wrought and i

00:03:55.520 remember talking to a man who was a veteran of world war ii um and bringing up this idea that this

00:04:03.920 bomb was so incredibly destructive and he brought me back to the numbers and he said if we hadn't used

00:04:10.100 a bomb like that we would have sent a bunch of young men young american men to be fighting on those

00:04:16.420 shores and we would have lost far more americans in the conflict than we did had we not used that

00:04:22.040 weapon so i do think it's important to uh not summarily say that a given technology is a total

00:04:30.480 disaster because of the disaster that we see because there's also the potential for the disaster

00:04:36.120 of not using it um so that's interesting yeah i was just going to say that that um you know to your

00:04:43.820 point that it's you know look at the other end of it that we also have nuclear power now right so

00:04:49.180 it's sure so it it's it's the same technology in um in a broad sense but in one hand on one hand it

00:04:58.200 gave us the ultimate destruction but on the other hand if we can somehow somehow eventually get

00:05:04.260 politics out of this that we could actually be using this to power our cities and power the entire

00:05:08.820 future but keep in mind that i come from the navy right so every single u.s navy submarine right now

00:05:15.460 that's in the water is being powered by at least one nuclear power plant at least one nuclear is in

00:05:22.220 there nuclear oh it's like a generator and then of course the engine but um and our all of our aircraft

00:05:26.940 carriers have two have two nuclear engines and nuclear power plants so the idea that um you know

00:05:34.140 the idea that this thing is like you know it's not chernobyl we're not the soviet union and it's not

00:05:40.040 three mile island anymore every single day the navy uses these on a regular basis um great hyrum

00:05:46.740 rickover if you guys don't know who that is the father of the nuclear navy please go read hyrum

00:05:51.360 rickover just uh you know someone i consider an absolute hero and i think most most navy officers

00:05:57.800 when you look at him in terms of of national heroes we would really consider him one of the great

00:06:02.720 patriots in american history for for just realizing this new technology and the fact he said well if you

00:06:08.080 need a water source or the navy we got the best one you know that you'd ever need for these things

00:06:12.600 so i guess what i mean to say is in the broader sense of the debate that you does ai have the power

00:06:19.580 for great destruction yes but it does also have the power for great innovation and technological i hate

00:06:28.540 to use the word it's like we can't use the word progress anymore because it's so politicized right

00:06:32.480 because it's very politicized i do think yeah and you and i have disagreed on chat gpt and it's

00:06:40.800 relative it's relative merits um and i do think that there are substantial reasons for concern and for a

00:06:48.680 pause and you even saw recently elon musk along with some other tech guys who are big in the industry i

00:06:54.980 forget who they were um but call for a pause on the development of ai and there are yeah and there

00:07:02.520 are serious concerns does that mean it does not mean however that it should not be developed it means

00:07:08.000 that it should be developed um in ways that are going to be beneficial to humanity and not necessarily

00:07:14.380 in ways that are going to destroy us we have seen uh certainly the advancement of technologies over time

00:07:22.440 that have not helped us in ways that uh you know that have like sort of taken over um and have not

00:07:29.980 been as helpful as necessarily they could have been like i do think that we have overdone it with our

00:07:35.780 handheld devices there's been a lot of progress there there's been a lot of benefit but there's also been

00:07:41.780 substantial downsides and i think that it's important to look at that as well that being said i don't

00:07:47.100 think there's a we if that makes sense like when i talk about when people say like we should put a

00:07:53.240 pause on this we should take a closer look at that who who are we what is the we comprised of there is

00:08:01.780 not any kind of global body that um would make these kind of determinations and if there were i imagine

00:08:08.860 we would all be roundly opposed to it because it would likely not have things like individual rights as

00:08:14.940 part of its uh primary tenets so we have to be considerate of that um i think there's a lot of

00:08:21.560 places where ai does not belong and there's a lot of concern well and so um i i appreciate it right and

00:08:28.660 i also appreciate that elon is actually having those thoughts and getting that discussion started

00:08:33.300 because typically we you know we throw out these new technological innovations and we we simply say

00:08:40.660 all right it's great let's go for it let's keep pushing um i saw a tedx speech recently where the

00:08:46.000 guy was um i forget it was and he said he showed how in the next iteration of chat gpt i guess he had

00:08:54.200 like the beta version of whatever the next one is chat gpt pro that's coming out and in his one um he

00:08:59.960 pointed out how we're going to be going into a post app post app environment and when i say post app so

00:09:06.180 the current currently the way we use apps is you know you go on your phone or you know or your your

00:09:12.680 your computer your tablet whatever but we interact through the apps and we let you you know we

00:09:16.940 post something on no post something on twitter post something on telegram post something on truth

00:09:21.300 i'll then i'll go over to another app and i'm booking travel and i'll go to another app and i'm uh you know

00:09:27.540 i'm writing something okay the new chat gpt can go in between the apps for you and you can order it

00:09:39.180 to tell it what to do in the apps and he gave a demonstration of this where he said so he's doing

00:09:46.260 the tedx conference and he said design a lunch for us to hold after this conference write it out

00:09:54.720 then draw me a picture of it or generate a picture of it right in in mid-journey so it writes out the

00:10:00.980 whole thing it's this gourmet um very frou-frou you know dinner or lunch and then at the very end

00:10:07.260 it shows you the photo which looks like a professional photo that came out of some kind of

00:10:11.420 you know magazine and and then here's the next thing then he said and he just it's it's like a like

00:10:17.380 a virtual assistant where then he says now go to instacart and order it

00:10:21.500 and it went to instacart and ordered the whole thing and then this is my favorite part then he

00:10:27.540 said okay now take that instacart order and and craft a tweet and tweet it out for all my followers

00:10:33.800 to have and he's just standing there at the podium at tedx and the chat gpt module is doing all of

00:10:40.640 these things and the very the very end of it the denouement is he said now go check my twitter account

00:10:46.880 and they checked and they put it up on the screen and everyone picked up their phones and the tweet was

00:10:50.480 there and you and you saw he had never actually even touched right his his computer because he's

00:10:58.160 just talking to chat gpt the whole time very right yeah i mean that is very impressive and that's a

00:11:04.180 very impressive tool the concern that i have is that it won't just be used as a tool but that it will

00:11:09.340 be used as a companion already when people use siri they say please and thank you to the machine

00:11:15.820 for providing them with whatever you know they asked for music or an order or something else

00:11:22.000 people say please and thank you to their alexa right we treat our machines as though they are

00:11:28.540 human beings we treat them as though they are personifications and i think that that is really

00:11:34.200 concerning because what you end up with is a simulation of a companion as opposed to a companion

00:11:40.200 and that simulation can fill the void that is missing for so many people um that void of of

00:11:47.500 meaning of wanting to be close you can feel close with your machine people already do it you see people

00:11:53.620 you know i'm sure you've had that experience you go to a party or something like that

00:11:58.360 and if you don't know anybody and you don't have anyone to talk to you take out your phone

00:12:04.500 and you talk to whoever's on your phone and you feel perfectly content sometimes you don't even

00:12:09.180 talk to anybody on your phone you look at an app you check your twitter to be fair um i'm definitely

00:12:16.080 the classic extrovert so i'm not a good example so me i stand there and i look at my phone and i go

00:12:23.780 hide in the corner i'm like until i see someone i know and then i drag them over to the corner hey

00:12:29.060 who's this guy hey who's that guy hey who's this person and it's like i find the one person

00:12:33.140 that i kind of know and i'm just bouncing around from person to person but that's why i hang out

00:12:39.440 with you at parties as soon as i see you at parties i put my phone in my pocket as opposed to as opposed

00:12:44.920 to getting thrown out of parties with me in austin right well that was well that's always the fault

00:12:51.320 we're gonna have to leave that there we don't need to name names about who threw out

00:12:56.340 libby didn't know i was gonna bring that one up listen i have been thrown out of way better

00:13:02.920 parties than that one so i'm not worried about it right as i know it's okay it's okay um that if

00:13:09.360 i've been crashing parties since the 90s so i'm not worried about it so so i guess what i mean to say

00:13:16.760 it but you're right though you're right and there there is this sense of we're you know we're becoming

00:13:23.100 um cyborgs in a way but we're we're meeting with the machine so uh you know we don't have alexa in

00:13:31.780 our house we don't have any of whatever different things like that are um siri we don't do siri um

00:13:40.980 but at some point i i kind of think it's inevitable i do think it's becoming inevitable

00:13:47.060 where it they these things are going to become so ubiquitous in society and they're gonna like

00:13:53.520 even right now it's kind of hard to use them they're not great um by the way i also saw recently

00:13:59.540 that somebody was that some people are taking like their google homes and google hubs and they're

00:14:03.880 connecting them to in their doors so that your door can be locked and unlocked you know which i

00:14:10.880 guess just by saying so i can unlock my door and i'm thinking like oh well if i'm trying to rob

00:14:18.500 people if i'm you know the bandits in home alone you know that's the first thing that i'm going to

00:14:23.080 figure out like i'm gonna now what happens when somebody takes 11 labs and copies your voice from

00:14:30.700 your voicemail or they get a copy of it puts that into their system and then goes and tells your

00:14:37.900 alexa to open the door so you remember fahrenheit 451 the ray bradbury novel that's pretty iconic so

00:14:46.500 at the beginning um the main character whose name i forget his house is yeah his house is the only one

00:14:52.940 on the block that doesn't have the blue light of the television screen flickering through the window

00:14:57.140 that's going to be my house with this ai stuff i have and i have known that since i read that book

00:15:04.280 in middle school and i thought yep that's definitely going to be me with whatever the new thing is you

00:15:10.100 know i i my concern is that we replace humanity with our creation and that it is such a subpar

00:15:17.780 replacement that it will lead to the kind of existential despair um you know that really takes

00:15:25.700 down a civilization and that we don't even detect until it's far too late because we will put our love

00:15:31.340 we will put our spirituality we will put our kindness into these machines and these machines

00:15:37.020 are machines they will not return that we will imagine that they return it but they will actually

00:15:42.200 not we already have men in japan marrying anime looking pillows because they're so lonely uh what's

00:15:49.720 going to happen now we already have teenagers who go through full romantic relationships with each other

00:15:55.380 um online without ever having met each other you know they go through the courtship and the

00:16:02.080 the emotional relationship part and the breakup without ever having met what is that saying about

00:16:09.560 who we are and where we're going i think it's really devastating i'm going to read a quote and i wasn't

00:16:14.660 planning on reading this but i happen to have it up they have greatly increased the life expectancy of

00:16:21.000 those of us who live in advanced countries but they have destabilized society have made life 0.75

00:16:25.820 unfulfilling have subjected human beings to indignities it has led to widespread psychological

00:16:31.820 suffering and in the third world to physical suffering as well it has inflicted severe damage

00:16:36.960 on the natural world the continued development of technology will worsen the situation it will it will

00:16:42.100 certainly subject human beings to greater indignities and inflict greater damage on the natural world

00:16:47.460 probably lead to greater social disruption and psychological suffering and indeed may lead

00:16:51.840 to increased physical suffering even in advanced countries yeah that's about right no thank kaczynski

00:17:01.360 yeah well you know his methods his methods were madness but uh obviously there's a lot of reason also

00:17:09.600 yeah he was also one of the earliest when he was 16 years old as a child prodigy at in um in

00:17:16.460 mathematics at harvard he was subjected to earliest iterations of the mk ultra experiments and what's

00:17:23.780 the mk ultra experiments with that the mk ultra experiments were a series of experiments that took

00:17:29.280 place over 20 years where the cia worked with uh psychiatrists and psychologists and pharmacologists

00:17:36.360 to attempt to use mind-altering drugs to study the effects of mind of of mind control because during

00:17:43.480 the civil war of the cold war they had a thought of okay so we know about information warfare we know

00:17:50.500 about economic warfare but what about brain warfare and so it was then they were actually mind control

00:17:57.000 experiments that were done and it turns out that theodore kaczynski when he was a student at harvard

00:18:03.200 where one of these uh cia-backed uh doctors was doing the research that he was one of their earliest

00:18:10.500 research subjects so we took some of our best young brains and destroyed them just for the purpose of

00:18:16.440 cia intelligence research yes wow that's disturbing that's a very disturbing use of tax dollars

00:18:25.020 and at least one of them was ended up being the unabomber so yeah come with that that would have been

00:18:33.260 well well done well done cia that was in 1959 so i mean imagine what this you know this mathematical

00:18:41.080 genius could have potentially done with that what he could have been capable of right well we know

00:18:47.720 for an extent what he was capable of um but imagine i guess i just mean to say imagine had that energy

00:18:54.000 been placed into something that was beneficial for society uh imagine him working in the the space

00:19:00.780 program for example i mean this this was the 50s when he was in the experiment yeah uh and then it's

00:19:06.280 it's the 1970s when he began this uh his his his campaigns and then it was caught of course very

00:19:13.080 publicly in the 1990s right but he got away with it for a long time is he like in some supermax prison

00:19:19.160 or something like that that's exactly where he is yeah adx but the one in colorado yeah

00:19:24.480 and yeah 80 years old uh right now but i guess my point is though that um that being said um when

00:19:33.820 you look at when you look at his description of society it's like he took too many black pills and

00:19:39.160 couldn't couldn't handle it it it does line up and i don't necessarily know if it's if if being a

00:19:44.840 luddite is the right word and i don't i wouldn't consider you a luddite i mean here we are on skype and

00:19:48.840 you you know you actually run websites right you run websites actual websites yeah you're and so

00:19:56.040 there is i guess what i mean to say is that in the same way that when man discovered fire you know

00:20:01.640 it was handed to us from prometheus the that we brought fire into our homes and of course fire has

00:20:08.700 the ability to destroy our homes but it also has the ability to food it has the ability to heat us

00:20:14.380 to keep us warm to heal us um when we when we are ill or or even in some cases um you know injured

00:20:21.920 and so i i look at technology in a similar way that if we can find the right way to harness it that

00:20:31.720 there is a possibility for it and so let's let's just get into it because we've been dancing around

00:20:36.520 it but so i've said to you a million times that you know because when we're doing post-millennial

00:20:43.200 stuff when we're doing human events stuff that there's always there's always that clunky work

00:20:47.980 of just getting the story out right the story has to get the writing the human work yes the right

00:20:55.460 the the words need to be written and so they need to be written down here's here's how it is from my

00:21:00.200 perspective that we'll be in like the slack channel or whatever and and i'll see something and i say

00:21:07.520 hey we should write this up and from my perspective uh you know then you go assign it to someone they

00:21:13.660 write it it gets written up then it comes back and we look at it and we tweak the headline we say oh

00:21:18.680 make sure to include this or like you know we do the fact checking we do the we check the links etc etc

00:21:23.920 and so my but i never actually see the person or talk to the person who who does all those things i

00:21:31.100 just for me it's just another channel on uh right because we're fully remote because everybody's

00:21:36.140 everywhere fully remote and so my question is what

00:21:41.180 substantively would be the difference if we had it doesn't have to be chat gpt or any ai

00:21:50.260 helping us to speed up that process well i don't trust machines so i don't think i would trust and

00:21:58.580 we've had this conversation i don't trust a chat gpt to necessarily get all of the information

00:22:04.440 correct we have seen for example i think with this bard thing this google thing uh it has cited books that

00:22:11.220 don't exist so now you're asking someone to do fact checking on a uh ai generated article which takes

00:22:20.920 the same amount of time as fact checking a human being except you can ask the human being directly and

00:22:26.560 know that you're going to get a substantive answer okay also you still have to do doing yeah you still

00:22:34.520 have to do the fact checking that's right but also i'm not saying if you work with a writer for a long

00:22:39.940 period of time like you know the there's no chat gpt in the slack channel no but the other thing too

00:22:47.040 is the other thing too is some of the writers that we have on staff i've worked with for an extremely

00:22:52.560 long period well not extremely long but like a good couple of years i've worked with them

00:22:56.340 so i know what their level of accuracy is i know how they source things i know their style

00:23:02.580 i know what they're up to i know how fast they can work like there's some writers where i give them a

00:23:08.320 breaking story and i know it'll be done in 15 minutes what if what if they're using that's really

00:23:12.620 valuable not letting you know what if they're using it and then getting back to you because they're

00:23:18.120 remote okay so i'm gonna ask um i don't think any of them are using chat gpt and the reason is

00:23:27.760 because for a while we were you have tracking software on their on their laptop no no of course

00:23:33.520 not of course not i believe in freedom individual liberty i'm not going to track people at their job

00:23:39.400 i was asked once actually do you read our dms and i was like no should i be reading your dms that

00:23:45.620 sounds like a terrible waste of time and a real invasion of privacy i'm not going to do that um

00:23:51.440 yeah i'm totally opposed i don't know if people are using chat gpt but my guess is that they're not

00:23:57.480 because i know that i know what their style is i've been working with them for a while and i can see it

00:24:02.060 i can see the work that they do but couldn't they but to your point couldn't you say read these five

00:24:09.320 articles that i've written for either human events or post-millennial learn my style and now start

00:24:15.020 writing articles in my style i don't know does it work like that yep is that effective what if they

00:24:22.100 what if they make up what and the more you train it like it has to be ai just starts making up

00:24:29.000 information how would you know how would the editor necessarily know if the if it's making up

00:24:35.800 information like with cnn yeah like if it was cnn writers i don't have anything on my stuff

00:24:42.940 no i know but but it was like that cnn article we read the other day about that it was it was one of

00:24:49.900 those shootings and it was a it was like a you know it was the one with the horrific one with the

00:24:54.080 neighbor um yeah family and then there's this the cnn article has this line in there about this is

00:25:01.220 this is just what happens in a country that has why has widespread guns and widespread paranoia and

00:25:06.780 i was like wait what like yeah when i see stuff like responsible no i think the guy with the gun

00:25:12.520 is responsible that's who's responsible the criminal but but again but again to my point though

00:25:19.200 shot and well and shot the father in the back right and the dad the dad took the bullets but

00:25:23.400 my point is that's what dads are supposed to do 100 um you could go to chat gpt or you know bard

00:25:36.100 whatever you call it and tell it that these are the types of things that that cnn or this is the style

00:25:43.100 of cnn and it could start to copy that and mimic it to the point where it would know to start adding

00:25:50.060 in those little extraneous phrases yeah i suppose it could uh that's not that's not enough to convince

00:25:57.880 me that human beings should lose their creative jobs to a machine i just don't think i'm not saying

00:26:03.680 but no no you wouldn't necessarily it's it's not losing your job right it's go back to the example i

00:26:08.700 gave of the guy coming up with um the lunch right the lunch order um someone someone still has to make

00:26:16.480 the food right you still have to go and you know do all that someone still has to you know deliver

00:26:21.960 you just don't have to think about it right so it's it's you don't have to sit there and he's not

00:26:26.580 like a gourmet chef and you know maybe it takes out like a some level of the the catering business but at

00:26:35.480 the same time the money is still going to be there because the because what it's doing is it's taking out

00:26:41.180 a lot of the busy work by just telling you by just giving you options the same way that you know if

00:26:47.740 you went by the way to a caterer they would probably have like three or four standard options

00:26:52.420 that they do here's our we offer three charcuterie boards and this is what we do and for this level

00:26:58.120 and you just pick one right well this essentially is just copying that and um but the but my point is

00:27:05.620 it's it's also giving you that virtual assistant role of you fact check this you tell me where this

00:27:11.100 source is you tell me what that is and so you become more of a a manager of the assistant i mean it's

00:27:17.780 like it's like having you manage your machine sure it's like you manage your machine i mean we've seen

00:27:22.980 this in we've seen this in offices sure like we've seen this in offices for years right there used to be

00:27:29.300 um a secretarial pool and if you needed something typed you would bring it up to the secretarial

00:27:33.900 pool and they would type it now you you basically type it yourself or you dictate it you also had

00:27:39.000 this crazy position in offices called the receptionist and the receptionist would literally 1.00

00:27:44.740 answer phones and take messages on a pad of paper and give you that's all gonna be ai and pipers

00:27:50.360 all gonna well we don't have receptionists anymore at all right i mean are there even receptionists

00:27:55.700 people just call your direct line and then they hear your voicemail telling you to telling them to

00:28:00.780 send you a text doctors like i would say doctors yeah those people are also schedulers which perhaps

00:28:07.460 you're not going to need that but is this something that we really is this something that we really want

00:28:12.680 right i mean have you ever encountered a situation where you are trying to get something done and you

00:28:18.840 have to interface with machines in order to get that thing done only the machine does not have the option

00:28:24.740 that you need and you get stuck for example on some crazy phone tree where you're saying i need to talk

00:28:30.860 to an operator and it says please tell me the nature of your problem so i can connect you to the right

00:28:35.540 person and you tell them the nature of your problem and they list off it lists off like 10 there's no they

00:28:40.900 right it lists off maybe five or ten options that you can select from in order to get you to the right

00:28:47.100 potential human being to talk to and your option is not among them and eventually it just hangs up on you

00:28:53.060 and you can't actually get any answers i think that we not only diminish our ability to accomplish

00:28:59.680 things that are outside of perhaps the prescribed area when we engage machines for all of those little

00:29:06.940 basic tasks but we also diminish our humanity there's something so much more positive when you are

00:29:13.000 discussing something with a human being than when you're discussing it with a machine that is only

00:29:18.380 programmed to give you specific options i find it very frustrating to talk to machines uh when i call

00:29:26.000 airlines or anything else where the app stops working and it doesn't give me what i need to do

00:29:32.400 they have yeah i don't i don't like it alex's point was that these companies have spent billions of

00:29:40.860 dollars researching this and putting time into that because they know and and this is what i'm saying

00:29:45.720 like it's it's just going to happen because they know that that in the long run that investing in

00:29:51.860 this technology will save them so much money on labor costs so i'm just going to say it i mean it's not pc

00:30:00.360 or whatever you know that used to be a receptionist then it became all center in um you know bangalore

00:30:07.860 india um now it's going to be ai right it's going to be in a data center they're going to it's going

00:30:17.320 to get to the point where it's going to get to the point where you won't even know

00:30:23.420 yes but you're also going to feel increasingly isolated at least if you have any kind of soul

00:30:30.520 or spirit and you're not an npc you're going to feel increasingly isolated by these machines because

00:30:36.700 these machines do isolate you they put you in a little box they they lock you away they separate

00:30:42.320 you from human beings and then you start to personify the machine and you start to put your

00:30:47.540 hopes and dreams in this machine it's not it's it's not going to do well for our spiritual selves

00:30:54.340 well and this is this is and and you you know me you know how my family is um it's it's what you need

00:31:01.460 to do then right the right move for a person that if you is i and this is what i think is that you

00:31:08.220 use the machines and you use them as much as possible and you use them as time savers you're

00:31:12.640 always maintained you are in the driver's seat always but if you don't like what it wrote you

00:31:16.840 delete all that um but if it pulls up some research for you then why what's the difference between

00:31:22.120 going to google and finding the top three results or asking chat tpt for the same thing just for basic

00:31:27.200 research purposes not that bad and so what we've and we've already outsourced our thinking to google

00:31:32.780 it's just we have so well we've certainly we've certainly i wouldn't say we've necessarily outsourced

00:31:38.780 our thinking to google but i will say that we have outsourced our memory is that you must

00:31:45.620 take that free time that it has given you and that and you you can use it as an increase in

00:31:52.080 productivity and i think that's good and i think that's that's where tech where new technology is

00:31:56.500 great um but you must make sure that you are feeding your spiritual life as well and nurturing

00:32:05.220 your spiritual life and that includes finding a community that includes in in my case in our case

00:32:11.580 being catholic going to church um praying the rosary that means finding those things or even just you

00:32:18.360 know going outside and spending time with your kids um i took uh i took aj for a ride around on

00:32:24.380 on his balance bike the other day just make sure that you're not spending all your time with the

00:32:29.460 machine that you unplug and you use the extra time that you now have because of the blessing of remote

00:32:37.640 work and machines and all these other things that you're able to okay you're using as a digital

00:32:42.340 assistant whatever but you must also increase the time that you're spending doing that and you look

00:32:49.700 at it right you your people are commuting less which i think is wonderful i think it's fantastic

00:32:54.340 people are going into these uh ridiculous job centers less which i think is also in a sense good um we're

00:33:01.520 still kind of dealing with the way that we've changed work um you and i you know we we hardly ever see

00:33:07.520 each other in person and yet we work together every day and so you're saying this as a man with a with a

00:33:14.600 great family as a man with friends as a man with colleagues and a man with a very active and rewarding

00:33:20.800 life um i don't think that everybody has that opportunity and i don't think that everybody has that

00:33:27.760 opportunity growing up so once we start infusing our lives with these machines and this is happening

00:33:35.200 for children younger and younger children who are not raised in homes where the parents take time

00:33:41.340 to take them out and to do fun things with them these kids are married to their machines at very

00:33:47.220 young ages you see this all over the place you see kids just sitting there with their phones if you

00:33:53.140 ever go out to a diner and you see a group of teenagers i don't let my kids do that no you don't

00:33:59.480 you don't you are an exceptional human being right not everybody is like you right not everybody has

00:34:06.400 someone like you in their life either so that's very you know that's something that is is too bad

00:34:13.420 you know but it's true if you go out to like the you know local diner or whatever and you see

00:34:18.080 teenagers sitting around a table they're sitting there like this they don't necessarily know how to

00:34:23.420 communicate with each other and so i think when we take all of our mundane tasks

00:34:28.780 and we take all of our little building blocks jobs and we outsource them to a machine we are also

00:34:36.700 taking away the ability to build on the knowledge and the work um the work experience that you can

00:34:43.760 gain from that i remember distinctly when i was i think 18 years old i was working in an ice cream

00:34:49.360 shop in uh in chestnut hill pennsylvania in chestnut hill philadelphia um i was working in an ice cream

00:34:55.300 shop and my imagination was extremely rich i was always imagining crazy things that would happen

00:35:01.800 there was one time i got locked in the ice cream freezer and that was actually kind of dangerous

00:35:05.440 um but you're always you're meeting new people you're talking to other human beings who have

00:35:11.020 different life experiences from you like the guy who locked me in the freezer you know very different

00:35:15.180 life experience from me um you're you're meeting new people you're meeting different customers

00:35:20.500 you are talking you are imagining you are interfacing with the material reality of life and so how do you

00:35:30.400 come in right like let's say all of these things are done for you you can just tell the machine to

00:35:36.320 order your lunch uh and then your lunch arrives you don't have to prepare it you can tell the machine

00:35:42.300 to bring you your groceries for example you don't have to prepare it all the groceries come in a box

00:35:46.980 you just put the things in the oven and they cook for you you you tell the machine to send your laundry

00:35:53.280 out to get washed to order your clothes to do whatever it is that you need you tell the machine to do it

00:35:58.780 what skills are you generating as a human being if the basic building blocks are already done how do

00:36:05.540 you come in at a high level how do you come in at a high level of of communication of ability of skill

00:36:12.980 set if you don't actually need to um if you if you have nothing to build on how do you start but

00:36:20.880 that's reading shakespeare when you've never even read you know like the little engine that could

00:36:27.060 that's what i'm saying though is that is that

00:36:30.560 we can use technology just in the same way that we used we used fire to uh get out of the caves right

00:36:40.300 um the same way that uh agriculture you know kind of ended the hunter-gatherer lifestyle that uh which

00:36:48.380 is arguably you know people debate that as whether that was a positive or a negative um that

00:36:55.360 you're right in a sense it does make us softer but i'm also saying that it's coming and it's

00:37:04.640 just like with every other the rise of every other technology like the industrial revolution which

00:37:09.080 obviously is what tech kaczynski wrote about is that you can't just stop it we've never no you can't stop

00:37:16.420 it and so what i'm trying to say is i guess is that instead of saying let's stop all technological

00:37:24.160 progress or deny ourselves the ability to have technological progress is that we come up with a

00:37:30.100 way to manage the technology on a personal level right we we consider our screen consumption when i

00:37:36.660 was little my mom used to even say how much tv did you watch today my dad how many hours yeah and and

00:37:43.460 i'd always be like oh i just turned it on you know yeah of course my dad one time my dad one time i was

00:37:50.920 sitting there watching tv and my dad comes into the room and it was a commercial break and he goes

00:37:55.240 what were you watching and i was like uh i don't know and he was like it's off it's off go outside

00:38:00.940 you're done yeah that's over and and and and i think that's that's what it's going to take but i mean

00:38:08.880 especially for children but also for if people want to be able to create and maintain meaningful

00:38:15.980 relationships and fulfilling lives that's the key because just having your basic needs met does not

00:38:23.480 mean you will have a fulfilling life that's the problem like idiocracy yeah it's well idiocracy it was

00:38:30.500 all for it anyway but because they didn't have food um but in uh in a life where all your basic needs are

00:38:39.620 met you will be unfulfilled because that is also one of your basic needs and so we have to recognize

00:38:44.360 that fulfillment is one of our basic needs and so this is the difference between pursuing pleasure

00:38:50.560 and pursuing joy for example so you should pursue joy very different you should pursue very different

00:38:56.080 fulfillment instant gratification um pleasure that's you know that's um uh all this huxley right

00:39:04.160 that's that's brave new world all the pleasures are at your fingertips but you know what everyone's

00:39:09.960 depressed no one's fulfilled because to your to your point as well uh you know you do need those

00:39:16.700 you do need those lives you do need though you need to live those uh my brother um kevin just uh he

00:39:23.660 sent me a message and a video uh just the other day where he said he said i went out and um he's like

00:39:29.420 i have these thick weeds in my backyard and my my lawnmower wasn't um yeah it wasn't wasn't working

00:39:35.560 on it well so i got a scythe and like a classic like like soviet union 1930s style scythe restored

00:39:44.260 it and he's using that to just he's he's scythe in those weeds you know he's he's he's reaping he's

00:39:51.080 reaping grimly uh he isn't very grim about it actually he was kind of happy but it's it's and kevin

00:39:56.220 works with his hands um on a daily basis and so you know it's it's he there is something to be said

00:40:02.760 for that there's something to be said for manual labor for doing those tasks that that you build

00:40:08.340 from and i think it is something that's innately built into the human condition and so if you don't

00:40:13.480 have uh you look at you know say the elites who have you know the one percenters who have all their

00:40:20.720 basic needs are met and for them you know they've had you know servants have been around forever uh you

00:40:26.320 know this idea of someone can do the shopping and the cooking and the cleaning that's you know that's

00:40:31.080 the elites have had that since time immemorial right um but you know even you think caesar was

00:40:37.680 doing his laundry washing all those togas um well he had to he really had to wash one uh well i guess

00:40:45.340 he couldn't do it but maybe brutus yeah i bet that one just i bet they checked it you think you think

00:40:50.900 they checked it probably yeah or maybe they buried him in i'm not sure actually it'd be interesting

00:40:55.180 you know you know what we could do is we could ask chat gpt and i bet it would give us an answer

00:40:58.980 chat gpt does not go know what happened to julius caesar's toga after he was brutally stabbed and

00:41:05.240 betrayed i'm gonna ask gpt just all right i'm gonna ask you right now i'm gonna ask you right

00:41:09.740 now because i'm signed in i'm gonna ask you right now i'm gonna ask you what happened to julius

00:41:16.580 all right it is not clear what happened to julius caesar's toga after he was stabbed on march 15 44 bc

00:41:22.440 as there are no historical records that describe its fate however it is possible that the toga was

00:41:26.880 either taken by one of the assassins or by someone else present at the scene may have been left behind

00:41:30.820 or later disposed of by caesar's followers or the authorities it is worth noting that in ancient

00:41:35.080 rome the toga was a symbol of roman citizenship and was worn by male citizens in public the toga

00:41:39.540 candida which is a bright white toga was traditionally worn by candidates for public office including caesar

00:41:45.180 during his political career however the toga candida was also worn by those who sought to portray

00:41:50.700 themselves as victims of injustice or oppression some cases may have been wearing such a toga on

00:41:58.040 the day of its assassination so what happened to caesar's toga okay that's pretty it tells you we

00:42:03.940 don't we don't have the records but that's that's pretty impressive which is what we just said we just

00:42:08.540 said that we don't know what happened to caesar's toga chat gpt doesn't know what happened to caesar's

00:42:13.440 toga and then covered it up with a whole bunch of extraneous information that was not asked for

00:42:17.720 okay but that was also useful and if we were writing an end here we do it here we are doing

00:42:24.540 a podcast about ai and ai just don't answer a question that no it didn't it didn't answer the

00:42:30.400 question it just gave us other information because we don't have an answer but that's my point is it

00:42:34.600 right into the world like a search okay would you feel this way about engines you know i'm not a big

00:42:40.620 fan of search engines but because they always give you biased results no and i'm not i'm not i'm not

00:42:46.840 arguing about the bias question right okay that's i'm not talking about bias but i'm saying would

00:42:52.020 you be opposed to using a search engine as opposed to going to the library and using the dewey decimal

00:42:56.240 system no but i do miss the dewey decimal system because i'm a little old school about that and i

00:43:01.220 kind of wish i had a card catalog and that my books in my home were organized according to a card

00:43:05.500 catalog i do wish that so i will just throw that out there and i'm not i'm neither not i'm not

00:43:12.600 against it and i love it but i am saying though that if i went to search engine of your choice i

00:43:18.900 imagine that if we spent five ten minutes searching we would still end up at this answer my point is

00:43:23.940 it was able to give us this answer in five ten seconds well that's useful sure that's useful

00:43:31.740 as an information gathering tool is useful and if we continue to look at it as an information

00:43:37.440 gathering tool then that's great but we already saw that chat gpt you can't if you can't get them

00:43:44.160 to um to uh renounce their position you just start chipping away at different pieces of it sure yeah

00:43:50.280 so chat gpt also encouraged a man to commit suicide and he did right we saw that that's an issue uh

00:43:58.460 whatever it was it was some kind of ai talked him into it uh talked him into committing suicide

00:44:07.300 we have people who find friendships yeah well if there's demons in there i mean and there are

00:44:14.840 and there's some kind of intelligence talk other people into committing suicide there was that girl

00:44:19.940 boyfriend there are there are people that use the internet sure these are human beings but if what

00:44:28.120 we have is a if we have an ai tool yeah if we have an ai tool that is instructing people to kill

00:44:36.100 themselves then we have a problem with our tool a hammer is not going to tell you to kill yourself 0.78

00:44:40.940 a gun doesn't tell you to kill yourself right these are tools they don't tell you to do that okay but

00:44:47.340 even in that case i imagine he still had to use a hammer or a gun or or something right

00:44:54.620 yeah i don't know how he went about doing it for sure but either way he's still ultimately responsible

00:45:00.340 for that how is he ultimately responsible if the woman who told her boyfriend to kill himself

00:45:05.320 ended up in jail because i think what she got was something like a um it's the idea she sent him text

00:45:13.320 messages it's like she's an accomplice well so is this ai uh again which goes back to exactly what i said

00:45:21.440 i'm not dismissing the fact that these can be dangerous i'm also saying they can be useful

00:45:26.140 the same way that nuclear energy and nuclear technology that we said at the very beginning

00:45:30.580 that oppenheimer and that those nuclear bombs they killed a lot of people a lot of people who

00:45:35.660 were innocent and now germany is shutting down its nuclear energy and california well no right but

00:45:41.460 not a good idea um actually not a good idea just talked about this on full send but in addition to

00:45:47.980 that it can also heat homes it can power hospitals it can lower costs it can it's it's currently

00:45:54.700 defending the united states throughout the entire united states navy um it is the same technology that

00:46:00.000 is doing so yeah and i'm very pro i'm pro nuclear technology for sure and it's true you know we know

00:46:06.160 from i think jaca lul that if the technological if the technology is invented it will be used we know

00:46:12.280 that for sure i do think however that human beings what i would say it's like checkoff's gun

00:46:18.680 yeah i think i have technological society right here well who knows anyway um but yeah you need that

00:46:26.180 need that decimal system i know i need the card catalog what i really miss is the subject catalog that's the

00:46:32.780 best one um right because it's like it's all there anyways my point is that i don't think human beings

00:46:40.820 are necessarily ready for what's in store we are not educating children about tech instead we're

00:46:46.820 educating them about being born in the wrong body we're not giving kids the tools that they need

00:46:52.780 right i mean think about your fire example going back to prometheus so when kids are going to learn

00:46:58.700 about fire they're taught about fire they do boy scouts or you teach them how to use matches you teach

00:47:04.180 them how to use the stove i started teaching my son how to cook for himself at like eight years old

00:47:09.720 because he was interested and i was like sure let's learn how to make some scrambled eggs we'll go for

00:47:13.620 it um i think that that's what you do you teach kids about this stuff we're not teaching kids about

00:47:20.200 the dangers of technology we're not teaching them how to use it we're just handing it to them

00:47:24.360 as though it's part of their personal lives and then it becomes part of their personal lives

00:47:28.720 so if we're going to teach kids about fire and how not to burn down their homes why aren't we

00:47:33.540 teaching them about tech and how not to burn down their souls couldn't agree more just so you know

00:47:40.260 libby i've been hit all of my assignments have been chat gpt for like the last six months just fyi

00:47:45.500 i for a fact no that's not true but it could be it could be ladies and gentlemen no i don't think

00:47:54.900 so we're just about out of time libby where can people follow you or what are your coordinates

00:47:59.620 you can find me on twitter at libby emmons and of course you must check out the postmillennial.com

00:48:06.640 and humanevents.com if you want to go ad free you can subscribe and we would love it and you will

00:48:12.360 love it and it's the postmillennial.com slash subscribe ladies and gentlemen as always you

00:48:17.560 have my permission to lay a short

00:48:18.880 as always you know what i mean you can simply show up whatever the issue is

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Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - May 07, 2023

SUNDAY SPECIAL： HUMAN EVENTS DEBATE - THE RISE OF CHAT GPT

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