Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - SUNDAY SPECIAL： THE TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINE

00:00:00.000 ladies and gentlemen welcome aboard to today's sunday special here on human events daily and

00:00:15.740 this is a conversation that we've been meaning to have for a long time and this is a guest that

00:00:21.340 we've been meaning to have for a long time it's very tough to get on his schedule his dance card

00:00:25.040 is always always full but we finally got him on ladies and gentlemen here with us today is the

00:00:31.040 editor-in-chief of the national pulse mr rehim kassan finally finally i feel and and there's a

00:00:40.340 reason that we wanted to get you specifically and it wasn't just because you finally got rid of the

00:00:45.640 purple light on your podcast studio it's because we wanted to do an episode all about i guess we're

00:00:52.660 going to call this the truth about ukraine and to have an honest conversation about what's going on

00:00:59.240 in ukraine why we're talking about ukraine why we're involved in ukraine why the world is focused on

00:01:03.740 ukraine um and we're not going to sit here and say uh you know putin is amazing or zelinski is amazing

00:01:10.300 no no we need analysis we need geopolitical analysis and i wanted to bring you on because

00:01:17.900 you yourself were there when all of this began in 2014 the maidan revolution which is something that

00:01:26.160 comes up again and again if you read i guess i would say independent media coverage of the situation

00:01:33.640 because in the mainstream media you will not hear any talk of this the maidan revolution the this this

00:01:41.020 people refer to it as a coup by the way the the founder of stratfor referred to the maidan revolution

00:01:47.640 as a textbook example of a modern coup a color revolution something we talk about all the time

00:01:53.760 yet when you go to anything cnn uh even fox generally they will just say putin invaded crimea in 2014

00:02:00.860 and they take that as the start of modern history raheem is that the truth

00:02:04.620 no it's not even close um you know the the the prevailing period of of you know the the um

00:02:13.900 consequences with which we live uh with all of that actually i believe truly started uh in about 2008

00:02:21.320 in the financial crisis and the specifics for which we can we can get into um but the maidan revolution

00:02:27.320 itself uh really was i mean there's no real other way to describe it than a coup and it was a coup

00:02:34.400 that was not just uh sponsored by the state department of the united states at the time

00:02:40.160 and and all of the apparatus coming out of washington dc but predominantly the way i was seeing it from

00:02:45.720 london at that particular point in time was a coup that was being um fought for uh by brussels and for

00:02:52.420 brussels so so this remains before we go to down the down the the line of this what what was the

00:02:59.320 maidan revolution let's say someone has no idea what you're talking about how would you describe it

00:03:03.260 in in a quick summation uh the madame revolution was when uh hundreds of thousands of people uh were 0.98

00:03:09.860 the numbers we were given at the time and i certainly when i was there never saw hundreds

00:03:13.020 of thousands of people um but we're told that all these people came together because they wanted a

00:03:18.060 more uh liberal western focused you know forward-looking progressive ukraine and the nasty prevailing

00:03:26.060 putin allied uh president uh was was trying to drag them backwards into into soviet uh you know time

00:03:33.000 so this this president his name was yanukovych he had been elected duly elected president of ukraine

00:03:38.700 uh voted for by a majority of the citizens of ukraine you can go and look and i don't even know anybody

00:03:45.540 yeah under national observation right that there were any election integrity issues with this

00:03:50.100 whatsoever and he pursued if if you actually look at the campaign itself what he pursued was a strategy

00:03:58.560 or a policy of neutrality of neutrality with uh with russia vis-a-vis the military so but he wanted

00:04:05.540 more economic expansion with the eu so it was sort of this idea that there'd be an eu economic agreement

00:04:12.020 but without the nato component whereby in they would get try to get the benefits of a financial

00:04:17.740 relationship with the eu but not necessarily present present a military threat to russia

00:04:22.900 well you you have to go a lot further back into understanding the the premises of geopolitics

00:04:31.240 especially in that region to kind of understand all of the you know geographic and ethnic and all of

00:04:36.480 the different elements to it cultural elements um all of it but but but what we were looking at in

00:04:42.060 2014 is a situation whereby look was was the president of ukraine uh more russell-elect yeah

00:04:48.220 of course that would be like saying you know the prime minister of canada has to necessarily take

00:04:54.140 an uh an antithetical position to what's going on in the united states at any given juncture at any 0.99

00:05:00.220 given time just because you don't like the regime in washington it was a stupid premise to start from 0.95

00:05:05.080 but it was the premise that really uh began the overthrow of his government it was regarding 0.62

00:05:10.860 for me this is why i bring the brussels thing up because a lot of people think uh and and in the

00:05:16.860 united states it's it's it's easy to see why they think that that necessarily all the bad foreign

00:05:22.340 policy decisions are emanating from washington dc were that only the case we may have a foreign

00:05:29.360 policy apparatus in the western world that we could solve but it's not just in one place it's spread

00:05:34.860 thinly across the western world and one of the power bases that it that emanates from is brussels and i

00:05:39.780 think people need to realize that as well because when we get into discussing what's going on um in

00:05:45.120 ukraine now we also have to particularly take stock of the fact that there is a very different brussels

00:05:51.080 view a european view to the american view and there is a very different american view to say the british in

00:05:56.960 a post-brexit world view of all of this they are not necessarily as aligned on a lot of these things as

00:06:02.960 people think they are but what ended up happening in medan was the replacement of a as you say a duly

00:06:07.960 elected a democratically elected government i was there when it was happening uh my hotel was

00:06:13.000 in the middle of a street with with when you walked out of the front doors the government lines uh about

00:06:18.240 50 yards one side dug you know not dug in but sort of um you know they have they have the the shields

00:06:24.360 in the streets and the protester line about 50 yards on the other side and and they were pretty much

00:06:30.700 dug in what they were doing was welding barricades into the streets in front of them and then behind 0.74

00:06:36.420 you had tens tens of thousands of people now when we went around and tried to figure out what was

00:06:41.800 causing this who was behind it why was this really going on and i have to be completely honest i had

00:06:46.540 absolutely no knowledge of that political situation on the ground when i landed in in kiev that that trip

00:06:52.700 but it became very clear to me two things number one that the protesters who were trying to lure

00:06:58.660 ukraine into a sort of more progressive um uh you know situation and with with europe and and all of

00:07:04.940 that stuff that was going on all of those people had eu flags and there was an eu tent in the middle

00:07:11.620 of the square that were handing out like information leaflets here's why you should hate russia you know 0.81

00:07:16.800 things like that but having said that on the other side um because most of kiev's uh institutions

00:07:23.940 are liberal left-leaning progressive whatever you want to call them and and and european facing and

00:07:30.420 in a lot of senses funded by europe as well funded by brussels um you didn't have much of a counter

00:07:36.000 protest from the government from yanukovych's government uh supporters in in ukraine at the

00:07:41.740 time because guess what jack they lived outside of the cities they weren't going to come into kiev 0.74

00:07:45.800 to counter demonstrate against against you know what ended up being a coup um it was it was really the

00:07:52.320 the ukrainian people's uh own fault in that sense of being led down this path by brussels um it's a

00:08:00.000 very similar thing to a lot of euroskeptic nations out there right now my own uh included that we we

00:08:06.420 had to have the general public understand what is going on in brussels for us to opt to leave

00:08:12.060 the ukrainians are now going the other way right and this of course that you you mentioned the primrose

00:08:17.820 path this of course is meersheimer's original statement at the time from 2014 we talk about

00:08:23.700 meersheimer's current warning all the time here on the program that the united states is potentially

00:08:28.620 escalating two conflicts in which we could find ourselves in a dual a two-front global war with

00:08:35.800 vis-a-vis russia we're already obviously in a hot war with russia but also potentially with china

00:08:40.400 in the straits of taiwan so what you're talking about though is exactly what meersheimer said in that

00:08:46.480 speech that brussels was leading ukraine down the primrose path saying you'll get eu uh uh you'll

00:08:54.560 you'll get eu membership you'll get a full uh free visa access you'll get schengen zone which of

00:08:59.460 course means visa free travel throughout the eu uh potentially sponsorship at eu universities

00:09:04.520 jobs financial investment you'll get you'll come into the nato shield you'll get all of these things

00:09:10.160 and what meersheimer's point was that and of course the response is and all you have to do is

00:09:15.160 overthrow your president and if you overthrow your president then you're going to get these things

00:09:18.380 and meersheimer of course responded that you are leading them down the primrose path to be getting

00:09:25.280 wrecked by russia because of course russia has always looked at ukraine as a buffer state the word ukraine

00:09:32.320 ukrainica is a portmanteau of the words at the border so if you're uh if you understand slavic if you

00:09:40.760 understand the language of the region what you're saying is at the border or the border lands it's

00:09:45.960 always been a border land and that's exactly how moscow views the entire thing and of course they view 0.99

00:09:53.000 nato as a a threatening military alliance and this is why immediately afterwards and i remember this

00:09:59.640 you were there in in kiev i was uh working as navy intelligence at the time uh in 2014 i would have

00:10:06.460 just become an officer i was for a prior enlisted than one officer but i remember saying that even

00:10:12.480 and this is me even as a china analyst looking at it saying well you know russia is uh their their

00:10:18.980 black sea base is is permanently uh permanently ported at sevastopol which of course is in

00:10:26.140 crimea i don't think the russians are ever going to just give that up

00:10:30.240 yeah and what what meersheimer talks about is effectively the the contra sybil right it's it's

00:10:37.280 from from the aeneid when um aeneas goes to see the prophet and and talks about building a new um

00:10:45.400 you know new city a new alliance um in in in modern day italy and is told you know this is what enoch

00:10:54.280 powell got in trouble for sighting in 1968 that there will be rivers of blood uh this was the the

00:11:01.300 like you said the primrose and mishima says the primrose path and it has now led to where ukrainians

00:11:08.260 have become refugees i was listening to a report from ireland actually earlier this week and they

00:11:14.220 were talking about how you know it's only a couple of hundred i think refugees that are that are in

00:11:19.260 ireland from ukraine but they are being made to feel less and less welcome as this war drags on

00:11:25.640 and as the general public suspects that you know it's not these people's fault that they're refugees

00:11:30.880 but it's certainly the fault of the nation that they come from that they've ended up in a position

00:11:35.060 whereby it's now the uh western taxpayer that is being made to to shoulder the overreach of as i would

00:11:41.620 say brussels as a lot of people would say um and washington dc but but there are distinctions and

00:11:47.620 there are not just distinctions in in what got to this point of war um you know active conflict

00:11:54.100 in the region as a result between those different power bases across europe in the united states

00:11:59.820 but also they all see an end game differently and and i think one of the reasons that we're not

00:12:06.340 if you go and look in the media today and you type in ukraine into into google news or or go on

00:12:13.200 the guardian or the bbc or foreign policy magazine they will all tell you the same thing some of the

00:12:19.420 most independent fair and balanced journalism on uh on ukraine by the way no but what is the same

00:12:25.080 thing they're telling you now the same thing they're all telling you is well we don't know

00:12:28.660 we actually just don't know well hold on a minute you know a year ago you were certain of of certain

00:12:33.560 factors here that played into you know right down to what vladimir putin had for breakfast and how

00:12:38.560 that might affect his thinking over the course of the day i remember when he fell down the stairs

00:12:42.560 due to his parkinson's right and suddenly we're in this information vacuum where they're all throwing

00:12:47.260 their hands up and going well we don't know well they don't know because they were led down this

00:12:51.540 primrose path and it hasn't turned out that way now i i want to go back and tease out before we get to

00:12:57.720 end game which i do eventually want to talk about but i want to go back and tell the start game

00:13:02.660 right so you mentioned there that so i was talking about this from the 2014 perspective and say thinking

00:13:09.440 that you know we had my don then of course we had so that's the overthrow russia takes crimea 0.58

00:13:15.040 donbass kicks off but then you get the minsk accords uh but then of course just two years later

00:13:20.340 really a year and a half later you get brexit which of course that's you and then six months after

00:13:24.920 that or so you get the election of trump and that's me sort of um that you you also have a

00:13:32.280 connection there being paul manafort and paul manafort of course who we've had on the program

00:13:37.340 here on the sunday special who walked us through the fact that he was president yanukovych's uh

00:13:43.620 campaign manager prior to being donald trump's campaign manager in 2016 and of course it was

00:13:48.800 uh these sort of pro maidan legislators in ukraine that end up coming up with this this fake black 1.00

00:13:56.360 ledger saying that he's taking all this money the whole thing was fake but of course it interfered in

00:14:02.240 the american election arguably the the largest and most effective foreign interference in the

00:14:07.720 american election why because paul manafort actually resigned due to it in march of 2016 so you actually

00:14:14.100 had the resignation of a presidential campaign i wouldn't even talk about this anymore by the way

00:14:18.820 uh and this of course is in the midst of the creation of the steel dossier and russia gate and

00:14:23.860 everything else and the fact that you did have the embassy of ukraine inside the united states

00:14:29.400 uh with people working with victoria newland uh with people like the chalupa sisters alexandra

00:14:34.960 chalupa uh spreading around these these rumors that eventually become compiled in what's later called

00:14:40.840 the steel dossier that there was absolutely a very strong uh ukrainian touch to this but what what you

00:14:48.200 said is even prior to that you mentioned 2008 and you mentioned the financial crisis so walk me through

00:14:54.820 that how does 2008 lead us because remember prior to 2008 and i understand by the way there's people who

00:15:02.580 uh you know we're sort of the you know elder millennials but but for zoomers and other folks 1.00

00:15:07.920 out there you know it's it's hard to just to explain what the post 9-11 period and i've just come from

00:15:14.300 new york we were up there taking care of something and i i remember very vividly uh what it looked like

00:15:21.560 where there were two smoking craters in lower manhattan and i remember this this overwhelming

00:15:27.040 sense of someone must pay someone must must be be punished for what's been done to us i later served

00:15:32.800 at guantanamo bay so of course in the wake of that you get the invasion of afghanistan you get the

00:15:38.380 evasion of iraq and we're told by the neoconservatives and the neoliberals and that we must uh take control

00:15:46.180 of the middle east we must turn the middle east into a democracy we must do nation building in the

00:15:50.240 middle east nobody was talking about a place called ukraine for an entire decade and yet all

00:15:56.960 of a sudden now if you look at things today you couldn't even name the prime minister of iraq you

00:16:02.060 couldn't name who's in charge of afghanistan other than the nebulous oh the taliban but you know we've

00:16:06.920 moved on and so we're not told that we have to care about who's in charge of these areas even though

00:16:12.400 at one point they were the most important thing of the world so you know to use the the current

00:16:19.020 nomenclature you might call it the current thing so now the current thing is ukraine but why have we

00:16:25.740 always been in search of a current thing and i think this is the the thesis of what you're getting

00:16:30.580 at with 2008 so walk us through it well um the current thing is is is basically what um you know

00:16:38.560 was was known as the going concern in in geopolitical theory for so very long it's it's it's almost the

00:16:44.140 same phrase i don't know why we've even changed it and the going concern is is is what motivates

00:16:49.760 um nations to act in in in you know geopolitical ways that are perhaps sometimes uh rational but

00:16:57.540 but more often than not appear to be irrational um nowadays and and you know i just want to come

00:17:03.040 back to early 2000s post 9-11 world for a second because because you have to go there to understand

00:17:09.360 where we're going to end up very shortly with this current uh you know confected crisis um

00:17:15.880 philosophically and geopolitically what the prevailing western regime the neoliberal

00:17:23.720 world order regime of of people who you know the government we've been we've been going with uh with

00:17:29.940 the bd formulation by the way the globalist american empire the gae and and i hear that totally but i think

00:17:36.200 i think it it actually downplays a lot of the malign influence that emanates from london and

00:17:41.260 brussels on this as well i agree with you on that that there is it is an axis yeah but let's let's take

00:17:47.940 it as a as a as a as a means by describing it um what they had effectively doing here this is my my

00:17:55.040 perspective on this is is purchasing about a hundred years more and and they're buying it in blood

00:18:02.380 they're buying a hundred years more at the helm they're buying a hundred years more of this same

00:18:08.560 kind of conflict going on in eurasia you know we have always been at war with eurasia we will always 0.62

00:18:14.420 have been at war with eurasia and and in a large part that was because of the uh lack of feasibility

00:18:23.600 of forever wars in the middle east and and it wasn't necessarily because of the the the loss of life

00:18:30.660 although that played a massive part it wasn't necessarily um the cash that played a massive part

00:18:36.280 there what what i think has gone on here is um the the regime could care less where it wages war

00:18:41.800 the elites want war no matter where it is right i mean we're already talking about a next presidential

00:18:46.740 cycle and wondering you know whether iran is going to be back on the table you know john bolton's now

00:18:52.960 giving interviews again to the bbc tank talking about his interest in that regard but the reason

00:18:58.420 the middle east stuff didn't sell was because the the world order became uh you know effectively run

00:19:06.580 by far left progressive masquerading as liberals and for those people you just can't be killing brown

00:19:13.920 people that can't be on the television every day it can't be in magazines the new york times 0.58

00:19:18.580 cannot have the bloodied corpses of young brown babies everywhere and so they had to pick 1.00

00:19:24.740 you know a less pigmented enemy here and and immediately after the financial crisis you see

00:19:32.660 lots of different uh weights bearing down pressure bearing down on the big corporate financial

00:19:41.420 institutions more regulation more scrutiny more ombudsman uh we had a ban on banker bonuses

00:19:48.300 in the united kingdom for so long and so the money necessarily looks to somewhere where the money is less

00:19:54.100 scrutinized and so a lot of these institutions um investment hedge funds all of that started to look

00:20:00.340 at well you know maybe we don't pull the money back into these places which are heavily um you know

00:20:05.280 scrutinizing our behavior right now i wonder what where where in 2009 did the guardian called the most

00:20:10.900 corrupt country in europe that was ukraine and not only that by the way you mentioned the the sort of

00:20:19.440 you know intersectional issue of waging wars in the middle east but there's also the religious angle

00:20:24.880 as well that uh those are muslim countries and that you know place like ukraine place like russia these

00:20:32.080 are predominantly christian areas i mean not to say that they're 100 christian but obviously it's it's part

00:20:37.840 of what's been uh considered you know the eastern part of the church for over a thousand years going back

00:20:42.800 to the great schism that when you look at this and and i want to get into this this question you have

00:20:47.920 though by the way so i remember there's that great julian assange quote where he says the reason for

00:20:54.640 the war is the continuation of war because what they're doing is a money washing of the tax basis

00:21:02.000 of your own population they're not what it's it's not about extracting the money from these areas like

00:21:08.080 like libya or syria which i mean go look at by the way the cast of characters in syria that the whole

00:21:13.840 country was smashed apart by uh barack obama by hillary clinton when they were president and secretary

00:21:20.320 of state respectively and of course lots of people went along with this from conservatives as well like

00:21:26.640 like rubio like john mccain when he was around like lindsey graham of course you see the same cast of

00:21:31.280 characters in ukraine in 2014 that were all in on libya that were all in on syria but the point is

00:21:38.080 so the money starts flowing these these write-offs keep coming this printing keeps happening and yet

00:21:44.320 you have to spend the money somewhere and i think what you're getting at with your point is that so

00:21:49.120 the money starts being pumped out of these central banks but if you if you spend the money in a way

00:21:54.560 where it can be scrutinized like i don't know revitalizing new york city like rudy giuliani did and

00:21:59.840 obviously president trump um when he was a developer would played a huge part in the revitalization of

00:22:04.080 manhattan but there's an easier way to do it and there's a way where you well not so much easier

00:22:08.640 but there's a way that you can make a lot more money doing it and that's by going to one of these

00:22:12.960 far-off areas and i remember there's actually reports in the early iraq invasion where there

00:22:20.480 were soldiers and i'll never forget this interview i want to say it was it was late 2002 early 2003 just

00:22:27.200 as the invasion was kicking off and one of the soldiers mentioned why do we have representatives

00:22:33.040 of the world bank and the international monetary fund with us as we're going in in the early stages

00:22:39.360 of iraq yeah yeah that's right i mean you know a lot of people will hear the sort of the themes that

00:22:47.440 we're talking about and and be like oh you know that that's a conspiracy theory or that's a bit of a

00:22:52.080 leap actually it is it is the occam's razor of argument on this point which is that money necessarily

00:22:59.440 looks for the path of least resistance i mean that was their argument to remain for britain to remain

00:23:04.800 in the eu remember the the greatest argument that they made every single day was well you know uh

00:23:11.120 money and financial services and trade that all can be done easier if we're part of the same block

00:23:15.920 and so and so you know what you're really seeing here we really should come up with a

00:23:19.760 a better um acronym in in for for this is is you know the european union is necessarily a protectionist

00:23:27.440 block for itself it doesn't do a particularly good job of being protectionist of itself

00:23:31.920 but that's what it's there to do you also then have a wider concern i've heard their exports are

00:23:36.160 having some energy cost issues right and energy is and energy is a critical part of all of this right

00:23:43.120 is is where you buy your energy from who you get your energy from um what that looks like is again a lot

00:23:48.800 of the way that the money flows here well i actually on that point i'd love to throw this

00:23:53.360 out because there's so many uh fancy ways and models that we could use to describe it but

00:23:59.440 i'll just say this to folks listening have you ever driven past a gas station because you know the gas

00:24:05.200 costs more there to drive a little bit further to go to the gas station where you know it's cheaper

00:24:10.000 even if you have to pay cash you might even go to the atm to pull cash out that's exactly what happens

00:24:14.640 on a geopolitical scale all the time every day it's the exact same thing because they want more

00:24:21.040 bang for their buck they want more gas more petroleum for their dollar and so i i've used this phrase that

00:24:26.720 i always i borrow it from a professor that i had even when i was in uh undergrad where you know and of

00:24:31.520 course the french whenever they're solving a murder or you go to the agatha christie and hercule

00:24:35.360 poirot used to always say uh sure she la femme right you know look for the woman whenever there's a 0.91

00:24:40.000 you know some some foul play but in international politics if you want to understand things sure she 0.99

00:24:44.400 la petrol

00:24:48.880 so i i i'm interested in this i'm interested in taking your your your um metaphor there and kind

00:24:54.560 of butchering it because uh it's almost like in this case we've driven past the gas station which has

00:25:02.480 cheaper gas um because it was not politically correct to buy from the poor brown man who 1.00

00:25:11.280 couldn't understand what you were saying and you couldn't understand him so you've driven further

00:25:15.200 down the street and you've got more expensive gas but at least you look the same and can talk the

00:25:20.000 same language sort of thing well it's also that you own that gas station right well well you are you

00:25:25.200 are establishing a dominance over over that territory yes i mean it's it's it's it's it's it's very low

00:25:30.240 level gang warfare at that point and and you know which if i remember correctly the the british had

00:25:36.000 some involvement in in in persia in iran over something to do with the gas you know i i just

00:25:43.440 maybe i'm remiss remembering this i i thought there was some kind of of of situation that the british were

00:25:49.280 very there's a company it's called bp i don't know i'm just i'm probably just making conspiracy

00:25:54.240 theories again we also had some some bp um in in down in mississippi as well um it's not it's not

00:26:01.440 been our proudest company uh an export but um i think this bears teasing speaking of coups by the way

00:26:11.120 yeah well this bears teasing out right all of this all of this conversation because because we've now

00:26:15.680 jumped from from 9-11 um you can make a direct link from you know a post uh invasion of iraq post

00:26:22.720 invasion of afghanistan world i mean almost immediately post by the way right like very 0.60

00:26:27.760 quickly people like you and i have figured out this is this is a disaster and that has informed

00:26:32.480 our opinions about what's going on in ukraine now for a lot of younger people who are watching this

00:26:37.440 who have you know sympathies with what with the ukrainian side of this uh rather than sort of a

00:26:42.800 more neutral and and peace uh dominant side of this um fine we understand it's not like we don't

00:26:49.200 understand we we sympathize with the same things that you sympathize with we've just been down this

00:26:53.680 road before and we know what it looks like and sounds like to be spun a yarn uh about why people

00:26:58.800 should die and by the way if you want to know where this road ends go look at kabul airport last year 0.85

00:27:03.440 or the end of you know was it september 2021 just that's where it ends well and that's not even the 0.98

00:27:08.800 end though is it because now because now look at the look at what's going to happen in that country

00:27:12.640 look at where that country's alliances and allegiances are going to be look at how that's going to

00:27:16.400 transpire for the next 20 25 you know up to 50 years they've just signed a resource deal for uh

00:27:23.120 i believe it's lng oil and rare earth minerals with the chinese communist party of course because

00:27:28.960 of course right well because of course you would i mean you've been you've been occupied by a foreign 0.96

00:27:34.160 power for decades who promised you you know the very same thing the primrose path right uh welcome

00:27:40.240 into the international community you will be heralded your president will be fated in the streets

00:27:45.520 you know uh people will throw rose petals in his wake i don't even know the name of any of these

00:27:51.200 people anymore and you will not know the name of the leaders of ukraine in 20 years time as well but

00:27:56.640 you know whose names you should be paying more attention to are the leaders of the the corporate

00:28:02.320 entities that are now being called up you know stand back and stand by to rebuild ukraine well and we

00:28:10.240 saw this at davos we saw that we saw them paraded around and these are names like larry think these

00:28:15.920 are corporations like blackstone uh jamie diamond has been all over the place again um and by the way

00:28:22.080 the new chief of staff for the biden white house is himself one of the former executives from bain

00:28:29.920 capital and this is how these organizations work they sort of have one guy on the left and one guy on

00:28:34.320 the right so a group like bain is perfect for this because here you go well everyone associates them with

00:28:38.880 mit romney because of course he ran for president romney he's a guy he's a man of the right isn't

00:28:43.280 he or is he because when he ran for senate in massachusetts he ran to the left of ted kennedy

00:28:47.280 in 1994 and then when he was governor he signed universal health care and then when he ran for

00:28:51.600 president suddenly he discovers conservatism and the pro-life movement and all of these things

00:28:55.920 but what it's really been all about from day one is just what you're talking about here money

00:29:00.960 and the financialization of everything you know mit romney's conservatism wasn't even it was like a

00:29:06.560 caricature of conservatism right you've got the you're the binders of women and all of that kind 1.00

00:29:10.480 of stuff it was that runs in the family for the romney's right well so i i you know i look at all

00:29:18.320 of this and i think back to this this this what that what they're purchasing here geopolitically

00:29:23.040 strategically philosophically what they're purchasing here it's effectively an extension

00:29:26.720 right it's an extension of something that was going rickety and wrong uh which is which is nato slash eu

00:29:32.720 um is that a lot of people you don't really even have to go that far back you can go five six years

00:29:38.560 back and look at the way that donald trump was highlighting to the world what was going wrong

00:29:42.880 with nato how we may even need to start all over again and suddenly those questions have disappeared

00:29:47.200 they're off the table well that's convenient isn't it that suddenly this this this apparatus that has

00:29:51.920 done nothing for so very long while by the way um you know marching around the world proclaiming to be

00:29:59.360 the very basis of peace you know and the eu does this well i i threw a a tweet up this morning as

00:30:06.560 we taped this and i wrote if the globalist american empire existed we would expect to see a military

00:30:13.040 expeditionary arm of the gae with client states of the gae supplying arms and soldiery to this coalition

00:30:19.280 of armed forces for the purposes of enforcing and expanding the gae's authority but nothing like

00:30:25.280 that actually exists of course yeah but again you you see this you see this through far more rose

00:30:30.880 colored glasses than i do i i look at this as as as you know you're sort of your house is falling down

00:30:37.200 and so you prop it up with some bricks that you found down the street um i i you know i don't see

00:30:43.280 this as an empire what you describe as an empire that is flourishing it is it is diminishing and and

00:30:48.480 and the european union is is whether you want to say it's flourishing right but but but i think you

00:30:54.160 see more strength in it than i do um perhaps i think i think we have to look at this in a in a

00:31:00.400 more of a philosophical perspective than in a generational philosophical perspective than

00:31:04.480 than simply a financial and military perspective or an economic perspective here and that is that a

00:31:09.600 lot of people over the course of the next 10 20 30 years are going to start questioning what

00:31:14.880 these institutions are that suck up all of their money profess to speak for them and where they have

00:31:19.120 no moral authority uh vested and and and that was what brexit was about right that was that was the

00:31:25.120 first uh you know real brick out of that wall and as soon you know there is a i can draw you a little

00:31:30.480 diagram i was drawing it just as you were speaking there about about the interest of getting uh out

00:31:36.720 in the eu versus out of the eu and and where 2014 fell in that for so for the video audience there

00:31:42.480 you can see you know where 2014 would fit fit where the uk's uh where the ukraine's interest

00:31:47.680 in joining the eu is going up and the united kingdoms is going down and that that is not a

00:31:52.320 coincidence that is by design the european union understood that it has to have places to expand

00:31:58.080 into if it is not um you know to to shrink with the with the release this by the way is how we should

00:32:04.240 look at all all of the scandals which of course you know people want to go back and look at the playbook

00:32:10.000 we can uh you and i in october of 2020 going through the hunter biden laptop breaking out the burisma 0.88

00:32:16.320 deals of the biden family going in and explaining why it is that victor pinchuk and a ukrainian

00:32:22.480 oligarch was the number one donor to the clinton foundation all of this is the same influence peddling

00:32:30.160 that we're seeing this is not the uh these are symptoms these are symptoms of what's going on

00:32:36.960 not necessarily the cause of what's going on and so when we're trying to diagnose what's actually

00:32:42.560 happening with our world uh sure we can we can look at these different things and and like a doctor

00:32:48.480 would diagnose different symptoms of a patient we can examine them and we can learn the way that uh

00:32:54.240 the disease is flowing the cancer is flowing has cancer spread to here is the cancer spread to there

00:32:58.320 but we're also talking about the overall disorder that has caused this cancer and if you live through

00:33:05.280 the 90s you know and i talk about this a lot that you know the 90s were this sort of golden era where

00:33:11.040 there really was a peace dividend and business was booming the economy was booming and growing up in

00:33:17.120 the 90s and i remember this quite vividly and and i i talk about this with my kids a lot is that

00:33:24.720 we had spaceships we had actual spaceships that you could go and see i remember going down to cape

00:33:29.920 canaveral and seeing one on the lander and it was the most amazing thing i had ever in my life at that

00:33:33.520 point and there was a sense of unbridled progress we were going to achieve our destiny and our destiny

00:33:40.640 was to colonize outer space this was the goal right this was the goal of everything and then 9 11 happens

00:33:47.120 and instead we decide to invade the middle east and then try to impose democracy on the third world

00:33:53.600 and then we attempt to extend this to every other place around the globe for some reason that i'm not

00:33:59.440 quite sure of rather than simply focusing on advancing uh human progress as much as possible

00:34:05.920 because for some reason and even jordan peterson's out there uh calling for toppling the iranian

00:34:11.440 government in the name of misogyny and and and i guess feminism which is which is interesting because

00:34:16.240 jordan peterson's the guy he used to point out that allowing women into the workplace wasn't a good

00:34:20.400 idea so i don't know i don't know what happened there but it's it's sort of this idea but why is

00:34:26.320 well i think we all know what happened there um that uh it's sort of this sense of you know why

00:34:31.520 why iran why does iran matter so much why not uh bhutan why not kyrgyzstan why does he specifically

00:34:38.240 mention this country for some reason why is that front of mind um and so we we need to look throughout

00:34:45.520 all of these issues and so when i when i go back to the corruption and you know biden's got classified

00:34:51.840 this classified etc etc it's all being led towards a specific purpose and i've said before i think

00:34:57.920 that the regime the gae maybe maybe you'd like by the way gae better if i said globalist and american

00:35:04.080 empire we just add that word and add the word that's right you might like it better the globalist and

00:35:09.200 american empire but um on the source there's of course there's an argument about the directionality

00:35:15.040 is it uh is it is it brussels in the front seat or is it uh is it washington or is it the city of

00:35:19.840 london but the well that is actually an interesting question i think at first it was brussels in the

00:35:26.160 front seat and then post medan that you know immediately post medan the uh us said okay uh we'll

00:35:34.240 take it from here guys you know you're only going to screw this up you don't know what you're doing

00:35:37.600 uh we have a playbook for this kind of thing we'll take it from here and that's how we've ended up

00:35:42.240 here um because because the united states and the united states you know defense lobby especially

00:35:47.360 will always always push for for greater and faster conflicts and and this is what was really

00:35:53.040 interesting to me you mentioned on this show uh uh last week about the rand corporation report and you

00:35:58.400 specifically talked about ukrainistan i um see i am a listener i um i wanted to read a bit from that

00:36:05.120 report about the duration of this the potential duration of this here because effectively what they're

00:36:10.480 saying is exactly what i said in my newsweek column that i wrote about this over a year ago

00:36:14.880 right in january 2022 when all of this was kicking off um before the war had started in earnest um

00:36:20.720 this is this is what we was what you and i were both saying so let's quote here from rant although

00:36:26.080 a longer war might enable the ukrainian military to retake more territory there are other implications

00:36:30.800 of the war's duration for u.s interests a protracted conflict as perverse as it may seem has some

00:36:36.000 potential upsides for the united states while the war continues russian forces will remain

00:36:40.720 preoccupied with ukraine and thus not have the bandwidth to menace others along the war would

00:36:45.120 further degrade the russian military and weaken the russian economy a long war would also maintain

00:36:49.440 pressure on european governments to continue to reduce energy dependence on russia and spend more

00:36:53.600 on their defense possibly lessening the u.s defense burden in europe over the long run well i mean if

00:36:59.600 if if that isn't if that isn't what donald trump was saying for so very long about everything that

00:37:05.360 was going on over there that trump trump wanted to use the path of peace to get those things done and

00:37:10.560 made far more um progress in that area as a result of that um they have chosen a path of war and it's

00:37:17.200 leading to less good results right and and and we've covered by the way on the show that this region for

00:37:24.880 uh for the russians this is an existential region for them the the donbass the donuts river basin

00:37:31.840 this is the same region that stalingrad finds itself in this is what connects russia which does

00:37:36.240 not have very good sea access very good port access again you know going back to my navy days um they do

00:37:41.760 not have the ability to power project on the open oceans they've never had a strong navy and it's only

00:37:48.000 through them as a regional power going back to mckinder's heartland theory that they're able to impose

00:37:53.440 their influence on central asia on the caucuses etc so if you're able as a military force or an

00:38:00.880 invading power to if you want to uh the the headshot the proverbial headshot on russia is if you can

00:38:07.440 sever what's called the volcograd volcograd gap and this is this is basically where the dawn river

00:38:13.840 meets with the volga river and if you understand anything about russia volga is sort of like their

00:38:17.840 mississippi it's their main river so then you sever their connection from the black sea the caspian sea the

00:38:23.200 cock the the resource rich caucuses uh they're done if you can take this out and what is the city

00:38:28.480 or at least 80 years ago this week what was the city called at the intersection of the volga river

00:38:34.160 and the dawn river stalingrad today it's called volgograd and so when we're talking about the don

00:38:39.040 bass and this region of ukraine this is the front door to that very same region that by the way the

00:38:44.880 germans tried to take this both times in both world wars and both times as we've seen of course

00:38:50.400 uh read world war one history world war two obviously much more famous the uh the bloodiest

00:38:55.360 battle in world history because the russians understand that if you take that region from

00:39:00.240 them they're done for they're done for completely so when we're talking about it in terms of uh oh we

00:39:06.400 want a financial expansion and we want uh we want to keep the money flowing want to keep these games

00:39:11.120 going if for us all of those things right when i say us i mean the gae writ large uh for them they

00:39:16.240 look at it that way for the russians they look at this as an existential threat to them and that is

00:39:20.880 why you're seeing these videos that's why they'll fight so hard for this area because they will always

00:39:25.360 fight so hard for this area well and this is what i think is leading to a lot of confusion i you know

00:39:30.480 i couldn't have said that better myself jack is is the uh the the western apparatus especially the media

00:39:38.160 apparatus not understanding um this existential question as far as as russia is concerned and where

00:39:44.240 they do understand it they still can't make a calculation you know is russia willing to go

00:39:48.960 you know the whole hog the full nuclear nine yards for for you know what what what would you know be

00:39:55.200 best termed as is their own defense of their own you know rational self-interest here um and i think i

00:40:00.240 think that's why we're headed down you know really just there are only two paths here um the first path

00:40:06.080 uh the the the gae would like to extract a full mea culpa retreat um from from uh vladimir putin and

00:40:14.960 then also punitively uh crush him right with with with more sanctions and reparations and just humiliate

00:40:24.080 into defeat well i i do fear that that would be a world war one scenario leading to a world war two

00:40:29.120 scenario you know a very a treaty of versailles um circumstance for russia the other the other part

00:40:35.360 of this is uh this drags on a little bit longer which by the way isn't necessarily achievable with

00:40:40.640 with nuclear weapons in the mix right exactly um and then secondly the the scenario is that um you know

00:40:47.760 this war drags on a little longer as the rand corporation basically alludes to in their report

00:40:52.080 everybody makes a little bit more money um and then they forced us uh well except and then they

00:40:57.920 force the two parties around the table and they say look you know this has gone on long enough the

00:41:01.360 public appetite for it is gone um sorry mr zelinski we're going to shuffle you on here you can be the

00:41:06.560 you know president of some un council on human rights or whatever and um and and we'll just and

00:41:11.520 we'll just we'll move on to the next one and what the next one is here by the way which is which

00:41:16.240 is a great concern look at the read the tea leaves in kiev right now just just in the past few weeks

00:41:21.360 we've seen resignations all across the zelinski government resignations and firings at one point

00:41:27.200 uh tons of people sacked you had the interior minister which isn't uh which isn't like the

00:41:32.080 department of interior here in the united states uh this this is a resource minister he and his

00:41:37.120 entire senior staff were killed in a helicopter let's say incident a suspicious incident in kiev

00:41:44.560 and then just this week igor kolomoisky the number one oligarch who backed zelinski's bid

00:41:51.520 and the very same who founded and financed the azov battalion as well as zelinski's television shows

00:41:57.760 all these different things and had at one point been the say owner but at least say i'll say the

00:42:03.360 money behind burisma going back to 2012 which according to ukrainian reports uh state department

00:42:10.800 backed ukrainian reports that kolomoisky was the oligarch behind burisma this guy is now getting

00:42:17.440 raided and so uh it it may be to your point that the gravy train is coming to an end

00:42:25.520 yes um there will certainly be people in the way of the longer term aspirations of of the people

00:42:32.800 pulling the the the strings and and so and so those things have to be kind of you know lined up and dealt

00:42:38.240 with now so that they don't get messy later on um it's it's not going to be easy for russia though

00:42:43.120 either i mean you you had putin talking in the last week about um you know here we are 80 years

00:42:48.080 later fighting the the german tanks again and and and it and it very much does seem like a a redux of

00:42:54.480 sorts uh the only difference is this time they've got the you know the the the entire apparatus of the

00:43:00.400 western world fighting not not awkwardly alongside them or rooting rooting awkwardly in their favor uh

00:43:06.560 but actively against them and and and this again i mean not to sound like a broken record about it in

00:43:11.280 fact i don't care if i sound like a broken record about it this again goes back to the heart of

00:43:14.880 what so many british people voted for um when they voted to leave the european union you know that i

00:43:19.760 understand that we have different perspectives on on nazism and and who the nazis were um between

00:43:26.080 the united kingdom between the united states you learn different things and we learn and we see it

00:43:29.600 through slightly different lenses um in britain it was very common throughout the brexit campaign to

00:43:37.120 liken brussels with a totalitarian uh german-led um socialistic regime and and that wasn't called

00:43:45.840 nuts or conspiracy or or maybe it was at first but it kind of normalized and so here you can see where

00:43:51.680 the russians are have their have their work cut out for them because even brexiteers in the united

00:43:57.840 kingdom uh notionally at least support ukraine they have they they have successfully driven a wedge

00:44:05.680 between the hostility uh towards brussels the nascent hostility towards brussels um and uh what's going

00:44:13.280 on and what started obviously in in where do you view and with the association agreement a few minutes

00:44:19.280 left but you know perennially you and i of course always cover the rise of the chinese communist party

00:44:24.320 we can't overlook the fact that china has this this strange dual role where they're sort of financially

00:44:30.880 still in bed with the west but potentially militarily still uh still opened up to russia now that's of

00:44:37.440 course in china's interests but where do they stand in terms of this and if russia does eventually

00:44:43.840 become more of an economic pariah after this as the west wants does that make them something of a junior

00:44:50.320 partner to china yeah i mean this is this is the best case scenario um for china if the rand report

00:44:57.440 talks about how the americans want this to drag out because it harms the russian military well the

00:45:01.840 chinese want this to drag out because it harms uh us it harms um nato uh militarily and in if it 0.93

00:45:09.840 drags on too long it will harm it in terms of reputation its ability to actually bring peace not

00:45:14.080 just talk about it on pieces of paper in atlantic council think tank meetings um and it will also

00:45:18.720 necessarily harm um a lot of the the the broader eu project and the counterweight and the counterbalance

00:45:23.760 that so many of these people have said for so long right from the from the podiums whether it's

00:45:28.560 in brussels or strasburg or here in washington dc that this was this is what this was built for um 1.00

00:45:34.320 the the i don't know whether in the long run what we're talking about is sheer stupidity or whether 0.99

00:45:40.400 we're talking about calculated um losses so that others can make calculated gains i suspect it's the 0.91

00:45:45.280 latter um but don't rule out the former and certainly don't rule out the former as it comes into spring

00:45:49.920 here um both sides can make major strategic uh errors we may see this wrap up by summer i suspect

00:45:56.000 we'll see it wrap up the early part of next year well i think that would be for anyone who is

00:46:02.160 sympathetic and and we traveled to ukraine last year um in in the summer and we saw the families that

00:46:08.320 are caught up in the middle and they don't deserve this and that's what it comes down to that we you

00:46:11.680 know we play these geopolitical games but at the end of the day there's always families that are caught

00:46:15.200 up in the middle raheem where can people follow you and i hear you have a new sub stack out is that

00:46:19.120 right yes i um i have a sub stack it's got just over 50 53 000 subscribers now which is which is

00:46:29.920 yeah sort of more than i thought would would happen i thought it would be a slower burn than that but

00:46:34.800 but i'm grateful for that it's at raheemkassam.com or raheemkassam.substack.com either one will get you

00:46:40.080 there um the national pulse we're actually undergoing a massive um massive change massive

00:46:44.800 rebrand uh we've got uh more different podcasts coming on board with the network this year um we

00:46:51.680 are actually uh looking at a print version a very exclusive and limited print version um of the

00:46:57.920 magazine and um we are actually looking at the production of what i think will be a very interesting

00:47:03.280 documentary um this year so towards the end of this year at least we should have that too so

00:47:08.000 that's the national pulse.com and the sub stack is just raheemkassam.com

00:47:12.240 raheemkassam thank you so much for joining us here human events sunday special you know i'd like to

00:47:17.280 as as the go home producer angelo sends me a quote i'd like to be able to read you a little just just

00:47:24.160 one line from the great tome george orwell's 1984 which i've always said that i think that we live

00:47:30.640 not necessarily in 1984 but it's basically a combination of 1984 and brave new world you actually

00:47:35.040 need both but here's 84 and then because it talks so much about war and how war is necessary for the

00:47:42.720 dominance of the regime he writes the war is not meant to be won it is meant to be continuous the

00:47:50.880 war is not meant to be won it is meant to be continuous we've always been at war with eurasia 1.00

00:47:57.040 ladies and gentlemen as always you have my permission to lay ashore

Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - February 05, 2023

SUNDAY SPECIAL： THE TRUTH ABOUT UKRAINE

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