The Fight to Take Back American Cities, Trump Criminalizes Burning the Flag & The Maxwell Testimony
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Summary
On today's episode of Human Events Daily, host Jack Posobiec is joined by a special guest to discuss the latest in the latest headlines. President Trump announces a new initiative to take back the streets of Washington D.C. from criminals, and calls for the National Guard to be deployed to Chicago. Meanwhile, the White House releases a transcript and audio of an interview between the Justice Department and Glenn Maxwell, Epstein's imprisoned accomplice.
Transcript
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I want to take a second to remind you to sign up for the Poso Daily Brief.
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This is what happens when the fourth turning meets fifth generation warfare.
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A commentator, international social media sensation, and former Navy intelligence veteran.
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This is Human Events with your host, Jack Posobiec.
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President Trump today acknowledging a peace agreement between Russia and Ukraine remains elusive.
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The president, though, still working on setting up a face-to-face with Putin and Ukrainian
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We're going to see if Putin and Zelenskyy will be working together.
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You know, that's like oil and vinegar, a little bit.
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But in an exclusive interview with Meet the Press moderator Kristen Welker, Russian
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Foreign Minister Sergei Lavrov making clear there is no meeting planned and there won't be
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Putin is ready to meet with Zelenskyy when the agenda would be ready for a summit.
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The Justice Department has publicly released a transcript and audio of the interview between
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Deputy Attorney General Todd Blanche and Glenn Maxwell, Epstein's imprisoned accomplice.
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Did you ever observe President Trump receive a massage?
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There's photographs of Mr. Epstein and President Trump together.
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I think they were friendly, like people are in social settings.
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I don't recall ever seeing him in his house, for instance.
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I actually never saw the president in any type of massage setting.
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The Trump administration's ongoing efforts to combat crime are showing promising results,
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Since President Trump announced his initiative, the White House has reported over 700 arrests
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President Trump now says he may also send troops to Chicago,
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though state and local leaders are strongly pushing back on that idea.
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My message to my fellow citizens here in D.C. or all across the country would be
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that allowing vagrants and armed robberies to take over your city, that's a policy choice.
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What President Trump is showing is that if you just empower local law enforcement
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to arrest and prosecute the bad guys, we can take back American streets.
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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome aboard today's edition of Human Events Daily.
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The days where you could spit in a cop's face and go viral on X, they're over.
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The days when kids thought it was okay to steal, assault, and vandalize are over.
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They want to say, oh, oh, Trump is being fascist.
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If you're not popping wheelies in a dirt bike, driving around people,
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just trying to walk down the street, families, children, uh-uh.
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And that includes all of the ATV gangs in every major city.
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Look, normal is when you can walk down the street in a big city
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and not have to worry about getting mugged or knocked out.
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You remember the knockout game, boys and girls?
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Or shop without having to worry about open shoplifters and pickpockets.
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Or walk down the street, take your kid to, I don't know, karate practice
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and not have to worry about fentanyl zombies chasing you down the sidewalk
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or even having to tell your son, you know, having to look him in the eye
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when he says, Daddy, why is that person twitching on the ground?
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And you can say, well, son, you don't have to say, well, son,
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And when there is a federal nexus in all of these crimes,
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President Trump should absolutely take the National Guard approach
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You see, we're going to take, we're actually talking about going
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for one of the first times that we've done in a long time.
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Because you see, folks, we couldn't do that before all this.
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And when I say go out, look, you could go out to certain locations,
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You had to get out and you couldn't just walk around.
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When you stay out too late, when you stay out and you get in trouble,
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people say, oh, you're asking for it if you stayed out.
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There are parts of the world that don't have to live like that.
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I've lived in much bigger cities all around the world
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and in places where they have serious police presence
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and actually take crime seriously, street crime, guess what?
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There are parts of, go talk, just go look at Singapore.
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All right, we did a whole episode on Singapore years ago,
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and I would stand on business when it comes to Singapore.
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Go look at how clean the streets in Singapore are.
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Go look at how safe the streets of Singapore are.
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How did they take a backwater country, city, really, just an island,
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and turn it into the powerhouse, one of the four Asian tigers of the 1980s?
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See, people focus on the quote-unquote scary part.
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What they miss is the liberation part, the liberation of families,
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the liberation of young people being able to go out and have a good time.
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We did so many videos from Warsaw recently that went so viral.
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How can you have a city of millions and millions of people?
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And they're just totally feeling free to walk around.
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It's called violent offenders and harassers and people committing a street crime.
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All right, Jack Posobiec, here we are back live, Human Events Daily.
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Now, a lot of people have been asking me about this.
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I've certainly been asking about it for quite some time.
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Ghislaine Maxwell, this is something that we've been calling for here on this program
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Back to the very beginning of Human Events Daily, saying, why won't someone just go and sit down
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And I say, look, you've got a source of information that is something of a captive audience, if you
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will right now, it's something that I certainly remember when I was down at Guantanamo Bay and
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able to see how those sources of information were acquired and were utilized.
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And I said, look, this is an opportunity to perhaps learn some more.
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So the Ghislaine Maxwell tapes and depositions and videos came out.
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And I said, I think it's a good first start, good first meeting.
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And I certainly hope it's not the last, but I didn't really get a chance to dig into it
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And so joining us to be able to do that is Mike Benz.
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He is the executive director of the Foundation for Freedom Online.
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You know, my read off from the top line of it was good first meeting, right?
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And people will say, you know, we used to get this question at Guantanamo all the time.
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And they would say, you know, I was so as an analyst in the in the in the human cell
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down there and they would say, well, OK, well, how do you know they're telling you
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the truth and how, you know, I said, we don't just, you know, assume they're telling the
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You know, you conduct source validation and source validation is a process that is
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And so you sit down, you ask your first set of questions, you say, oh, interesting.
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And then you come back and you do so over and over and over again.
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And so I want to get your assessment at least on what we've received thus far.
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Yeah, I certainly hope what you said is is how it plays out.
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I thought it was it was very interesting that there were DOJ did ask the questions for the
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I think I feel like with with so many other things, as with so many other things in the
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Trump administration, they're very responsive to the buzz of the base.
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And so, you know, it was sort of an around the world tour, which was the good part of it.
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And I'll get to what some of the key findings were from from what Ghislaine Maxwell's responses
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were, but I have to caveat it by saying that I sort of wish that the interview itself was
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conducted by a random anonymous account on Twitter with a with a deeper knowledge of
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the Epstein case, because there are many of these questions that are asked and answers
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And there's no real follow up or or next deep dive into what the actual meaning of the thing
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And so it's yeah, there's there's it's an it's so funny you say that because I had the
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exact same takeaway reading the transcript that, you know, and I remember I this was even
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You have you have somebody on, you know, someone's in the booth and you're sitting there listening
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even in real time and you're like, what was nice back then is you could you could pause
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and say, oh, you have a phone call and then that person could leave the booth and you could
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say, hey, ABCDEF, you know, you need to follow up on this, follow up on this, follow up on
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Now, I'm guessing they probably had a little bit of that because you can you can see a few
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But at the same time, yeah, it's exactly right.
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There's so much you need to follow up with on here.
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But at the same time, if this was just a first meeting, hopefully the first in a series
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But I guess what you're saying is so Todd Blanche, who did the the invest the interrogation
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here, should have had a lurker Twitter account open and he should have had a live thread on
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I can't even imagine how the legality of such a thing.
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But but but yes, basically, it's like phone a friend.
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It's just it's just the I think part of the issue here is and this is another reason why
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I think for all the heat that Pam Bondi has taken, it's it's really not all that appropriate
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in my view, for her to kind of be the face of it, because she's not the subject.
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This is not an ordinary crime or an ordinary criminal cinematic universe.
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The Epstein cinematic universe is something that you need.
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It's almost like Star Trek or something or like Marvel.
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Like it's everyone knows that the common crimes and I but there are people who are really,
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really deep autistic nerds about it, who like eat, sleep and breathe.
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The entire cinematic universe, they can recount every story and sub story and branch of it.
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And I don't know who at DOJ is like the in-house Trekkie, so to speak, who just knows who has
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all the Epstein action figures so that when they have a the real life character in the
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room, they can actually get to the bottom of what happened.
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And you can tell, by the way, just just to to piggyback on that, you could tell, by the
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way, that some of the questions that were asked were very detailed.
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So whoever came up with this question plan obviously knew exactly chapter and verse, right,
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in terms of the Epstein lore and just knew every little nook and cranny of it.
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But at the same time, it was just sort of this rapid fire.
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OK, we're going to go down the list of each question, you know, almost like yes or no questions.
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And it's just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, without this broader discussion or or an example
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of, you know, basically, you don't really see any basic elicitation approaches here or
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It's just this direct questioning over and over and over.
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Well, I'll I'll read off some of the some of the transcripts, parts of it that I thought
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So so Todd Blanche from DOJ asked, did you or did Mr. Epstein ever do any business transactions
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And Glenn Maxwell says, I was part of the beginning process of the Clinton Global Initiative.
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Todd Blanche says then said, did you give money or did did Jeffrey give money to the
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And I believe that money may have also been independent of me.
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And she goes on to basically describe how they came up with the idea on a trip at Davos with
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And this is also around the same time that Epstein was flying Bill Clinton around Africa while
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So that's now a direct confession from Ghislaine Maxwell, which adds to the Epstein lawyers
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who claimed in court that Epstein co-founded the Clinton Foundation.
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This was actually while negotiating a plea deal with federal prosecutors.
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Epstein's lawyers wrote, Mr. Epstein was part of the original group that conceived the Clinton
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And this is also an interesting bit of confirmation, given that the Clinton Foundation is back in
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the crosshairs this week, as there have been there's been reporting from John Solomon and
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Just the News that three different FBI investigations into the Clinton Foundation were shut down by
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Loretta Lynch during the Obama DOJ during the 2016 campaign, and that the IRS also had a sprawling
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But that, too, was shut down because the IRS claimed that they did not have enough resources to
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So, I mean, I can only imagine how massive the fraud must be that it's too big for even the IRS to
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investigate, and obviously this is their get-out-of-political-cronyism free card.
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This is their way of saying, oh, no, we didn't do favors for them.
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It was just anybody who commits that much tax fraud, we wouldn't investigate because it would
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Right, like we're led to believe that if we had kept the 80,000 IRS agents that the IRS asked for
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under the Biden admin, like they would go straight after the Clinton Foundation.
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No, it's very simple, and we see things about how the Clinton Foundation, of course, was used
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to set up their own ability for pay-for-play schemes.
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By the way, it also goes back to Ukraine, which was Ukraine was, of course, the number one source
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I love, by the way, every time I say that, they try to fact-check me and say, no, no, no,
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it wasn't Ukraine, it was people in Ukraine who were the, oh, well, thank you, I appreciate
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They make this weird semantic argument to say, no, no, it was just oligarchs from the
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You can't say that the money came from Ukraine.
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Because that's exactly how we talk about, oh, I don't know, Russia, their country next door.
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No, it's just the former Ministry of Energy and the people who control all of Ukraine's
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These are the same kind of oligarchs that they love.
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I mean, the FBI took careful notes, Stefan Halper's notes, which came out, he was part
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of the original CIA crew during Iran-Contra and then was an FBI informant during Russiagate,
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kind of kicked off Russiagate in the summer of 2016.
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And, you know, they were charting all of Trump and Mike Flynn's relationships with, quote,
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And meanwhile, they're doing the same thing on the Ukraine oligarch side.
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But, you know, there were other exchanges that I felt were very frustrating, particularly
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Well, Mike, we are coming up on a quick break here.
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Coming up after the break, we are going to get into the other exchanges.
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Folks, we're parsing through this documentary evidence and now direct testimony from Ghislaine
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Maxwell to Todd Blanche, the DOJ, what was going on with Epstein and his operations.
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Jack Posobiec, Human Events Daily on Real America's Voice.
00:19:24.580
These are influences and they're friends of mine.
00:19:43.900
We're going through the Ghislaine Maxwell transcripts and the audio that's been released
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We just talked about how Ghislaine Maxwell admits, and this has been something that's already
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come up in court, that it was her money and Epstein money and Epstein contacts that went
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into the very founding of the Clinton Foundation itself.
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So there were several other funny moments in it.
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One is when the DOJ asked Maxwell for examples of Epstein's kind of money laundering machine,
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This is something that I've covered very extensively.
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So after being hired by Bill Barr's dad at the Dalton School and then going on to Bear
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Stearns after a personal friendship with its CEO.
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But then Epstein goes out on his own in 1981 to form International Assets Group, which was
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basically this one, you know, as he built a one-man asset tracing and asset recovery business,
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but also an asset shielding business where he would shield assets for oligarchs and governments
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and hide them away in offshore bank accounts in the Cayman Islands or the U.S. Virgin Islands
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And then he would he would help claim to help other groups find he basically play both sides
00:21:32.360
of the chessboard in the in the greasy business of tax evasion, effectively, which is when he
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was when he was handling the family accounts of the Bronfman family at Bear Stearns.
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And he was still a client of Bear Stearns even after he left.
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So my presumption is that Epstein throughout the 1980s, because this is before he turned
00:21:53.340
So, you know, you're not nearly an expert enough, only four years into a subject matter
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So what I what I assume happened is that he flew a little close to the sun at Bear Stearns,
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So he served as the front end and Bear Stearns still did the business on the back.
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But there's a great part where the DOJ asked Maxwell to give an example of what this kind
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of asset tracing, asset recovery business looked like in practice.
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And the first thing she starts out with is an example with like the Sinaloa cartel.
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So she says, so so let's say you have El Chapo.
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Oh, God, I don't know where that where that name comes from.
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But anyway, we've got El Chapo and El Chapo's laundering money or he's working with the
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Sinaloa cartel and he steals money from the Sinaloa cartel and he moves it to wherever.
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I'm just giving an example of something in my head.
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And the Sinaloa cartel says to Jeffrey Epstein, can you track down my billion dollars that
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And so Epstein would go and find the billion dollars and would take a portion of the money
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that was stolen at a fee and give back the remainder.
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And the first thing that comes to mind is doing doing business with the most CIA linked
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And having them as a personal client and having them get money from other, track down money
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from other cartels and then taking a percentage of the cartel business.
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I mean, that's the first example you can think of, helping one drug cartel get money from
00:23:52.780
So, and especially with everything I talk about with this really, I'll put it this way.
00:23:58.720
It seems like, so, okay, what you're, what you're talking about here is when we would do
00:24:04.360
a, a first source meeting, actually it at, uh, in, uh, the, we'll just say in the military
00:24:11.120
context and cause I want to get into specifics, but what you would actually be doing is you,
00:24:16.520
you'd be, you'd be basically setting up, um, a baseline assessment.
00:24:20.900
So a knowledgeability brief or a knowledgeability base, a KB.
00:24:24.780
So when you're looking at things like that, you ask a lot, you ask these like really wide
00:24:29.100
probing questions like that one, did you ever know anything about any money laundering?
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And then she mentions, well, about this and that it's like, oh, hold on.
00:24:36.780
She just mentioned five different things that you could go off into in any one of those
00:24:42.600
So you want to build that in and then off of any then further questioning plan, you
00:24:48.400
would want to go and, and people can, you know, look this up in the field manual.
00:24:52.800
It's, it's all out there on how interrogations work that these, you know, I'm not talking
00:24:57.680
about the waterboarding, you know, gosh, that's, you know, or the CIA enhanced stuff.
00:25:01.320
No, I mean the real stuff that it's, it's all based on, okay, we think that the, the
00:25:07.140
subject might, or the source might know about these things, but oh my gosh, they're mentioning
00:25:12.640
this, they're mentioning this, they're mentioning this, they're mentioning this.
00:25:19.440
So what you want to try to do is you'd have your next session to say, okay, he, tell me
00:25:29.100
Then you have another session on accounts, you know, the session, maybe just, I don't
00:25:34.400
And, and so you, that's why I keep saying this needs to be a series because there's
00:25:41.840
And especially when it comes to the intelligence links, and this was, this is one of the most
00:25:45.920
frustrating parts of, of the transcript for me.
00:25:49.360
You know, the first thing I did when I popped it open is I ran a control F for intelligence
00:25:53.740
and, and all the different, the first thing I did was run a control F for Mike Benz.
00:26:03.400
Did she, did she know, did she get my love letters, Jack?
00:26:12.760
Well, so this, this is a very frustrating part of it for me because.
00:26:16.880
You know, there, it's, it's one of those things where we still don't have any official word
00:26:23.420
from either the DOJ or the CIA about the internal intelligence links that Epstein had or may have
00:26:33.040
had, this is obviously a long running saga because the plea deal, the sweetheart plea deal that
00:26:39.060
give, gave immunity to all co-conspirators known or unknown back in 2008 was cut by Alex Acosta,
00:26:47.380
who then went on to be the secretary of labor for the Trump administration after being the
00:26:54.080
dean of Florida International University Law School, which is a very CIA connected school.
00:27:00.380
I should note Florida International University is now where Juan Guaido is and Maria Karina
00:27:05.480
So it's like a very big South America, Central America.
00:27:15.600
Don't you dare click away from Real America's Voice.
00:27:37.040
We're always talking about the fake news and the bad, but we have guys and these are the
00:27:44.660
All right, Jack, we'll be back here because you didn't click away.
00:27:50.400
And this is Human Events Daily in Washington, D.C.
00:27:54.960
We're talking about these, you know, these questions and these tantalizing questions.
00:28:00.760
A lot of it seems left on the field with this Ghislaine Maxwell interview.
00:28:04.900
But, you know, as someone who's, you know, done this kind of thing, I would just say, you
00:28:08.520
know, this is only if this is a small aperitif to the main course, which would and potentially
00:28:15.580
a banquet that is yet to come in terms of this.
00:28:20.400
And so Mike Benz was telling us, though, about how these connections, you know, these intel
00:28:26.440
connections that they're talking about actually do come directly with military connections.
00:28:31.620
And it's very interesting how just looking at this, I keep saying, wait a minute.
00:28:41.760
And as you mentioned, the Clinton Global Initiative, the I think the largest individual donor was
00:28:47.720
And then and then obviously, you know, as we covered, Epstein and Maxwell got on to help
00:28:55.940
And, you know, wrapping up the Epstein part of it, they did ask about the intelligence links.
00:29:02.000
And while we don't have anything on the U.S. side and again, the CIA and DOJ are still mum,
00:29:08.000
even though Alex Acosta reportedly said that he cut the sweetheart deal because Epstein, quote,
00:29:12.180
belongs to intelligence. And we still don't have the results of a CIA name trace.
00:29:19.520
Pam Bondi said she'd get back to us about looking into Epstein's intelligence links.
00:29:24.300
No word back yet from Pam Bondi on that, unfortunately.
00:29:32.520
And, you know, so they asked about British intelligence and Saudi.
00:29:37.200
And then they asked about Israeli intelligence.
00:29:38.980
And they asked specifically about Mossad, though.
00:29:43.880
And the real story here, Epstein got his start in this really during this highly militarized period
00:29:49.880
in American history in the Middle East around even though his clients were Saudi Arabia,
00:29:56.840
you know, Adnan Khashoggi military contractors.
00:30:01.460
That's who he claimed was his client in the 1980s.
00:30:04.680
The most profitable, highest paid weapons dealer in the world, who was a Saudi guy.
00:30:12.600
The whole Iran-Contra and Iran-Iraq war, U.S. involvement was through military sales
00:30:21.020
with involving Adnan Khashoggi, Jeffrey Epstein's client.
00:30:24.340
And that was facilitated between the U.S. and Israel.
00:30:27.260
But this was really a military intelligence story more than a kind of political maneuvering
00:30:35.340
So Todd Blanche asks about Epstein's links with Mossad.
00:30:42.120
And it's unfortunate that he singled out Mossad there rather than Israeli intelligence in general.
00:30:55.100
He said, did you ever have contact with anyone from Mossad, the Israeli intelligence agency?
00:31:05.080
And then Todd Blanche says, did you ever think Epstein was getting money from Mossad?
00:31:11.860
But then in the very next question, he tries to move on and say, are there any other foreign
00:31:18.120
nationals or high society folks or international businessmen or politicians that had a very
00:31:23.820
close relationship with Mr. Epstein that we haven't already talked about?
00:31:27.000
And Ghislaine Maxwell says, off the top of my head, I can think of Ehud Barak.
00:31:35.260
He just then asks about Epstein's testosterone replacement therapy.
00:31:40.120
Now, Ehud Barak was the head of Israeli military intelligence from 1983 to 1985, exactly when
00:31:48.320
Jeffrey Epstein was starting off his entire career.
00:31:57.540
They started Carbine, this big military surveillance company.
00:32:05.320
Ehud Barak is probably the most prolific Epstein figure in the story.
00:32:11.020
Ehud Barak was also the prime minister of Israel.
00:32:14.100
While Bill Clinton was the president of the United States, we know that Jeffrey Epstein made
00:32:20.960
17 White House visits to Bill Clinton's White House and then helped Bill Clinton found the
00:32:26.980
At the same time, Ehud Barak was president, coming from running Amman, Israeli's military
00:32:33.720
But it's almost like the DOJ didn't know who Ehud Barak was.
00:32:38.800
And Ehud Barak, by the way, is very much an enemy of both the Trump and Netanyahu administrations.
00:32:46.000
Ehud Barak was part of that West exec group, worked closely with Avril Haines and Tony Blinken
00:32:54.640
They've been trying to revive the Israeli Labor Party as a buffer against the Likud.
00:33:00.600
So there's this kind of international alliance between the Democrats in the United States and
00:33:06.920
And the fact that DOJ, she volunteered it, Maxwell volunteered it.
00:33:12.440
And no questions about probably the single most prolific figure in the foreign intelligence
00:33:24.760
But obviously, you know, this whole military intelligence side, it's always unclear whether
00:33:30.540
the DOJ is avoiding those questions because they're simply not versed enough in the subject
00:33:35.620
matter expert or they don't want national security secrets or they don't want necessarily
00:33:40.940
things on the record that they don't want to get too close to.
00:33:44.320
So that's also, I think, the kind of protective shield that has been over much of Russiagate
00:33:50.000
and and the Ukraine affair coming into these past couple months of disclosure out of ODNI
00:33:59.780
And President Trump clearly using this and Tulsi Gabbard with these disclosures on Russiagate
00:34:04.980
to kind of reset the context of all of these conversations to say, look, there never was
00:34:20.500
I saw with my own two eyes that there was this direct relationship, certainly, between
00:34:27.080
the president and Putin when they came off the tarmac together or they met at the tarmac,
00:34:33.700
But at the same time, when it seemed as though I'll put it this way, it seemed like the two
00:34:38.800
of them could probably work out a deal together.
00:34:40.900
The problem it came with when it came to the deal of all the Europeans when they got back
00:34:47.500
to Washington, D.C. on Monday for that multilateral meeting.
00:34:53.180
And this is one of the frustrations from my side of this here is I think Trump has a kind
00:34:59.720
of Reaganite peace through strength philosophy.
00:35:01.900
And I think that Trump's favors for the military industrial complex by giving so much in Pentagon
00:35:08.640
It's not just the trillion dollar Pentagon budget this year.
00:35:12.060
But remember, even during Trump won, Trump gave the military its highest budget of all
00:35:19.120
This is all while telling the military not to get involved in Syria, not to get involved
00:35:25.340
in nation building to, you know, they accused him of being an isolationist while giving the
00:35:31.920
most money to the military ever of any president twice now.
00:35:42.440
She was on live broadcast TV news saying the first thing positive I think she's ever said
00:35:48.220
about Donald Trump in the past 10 years, commending him for getting countries to fulfill their NATO
00:35:55.480
But NATO is the big blocking point in the Ukraine negotiation.
00:36:00.500
And not only that, NATO is doing a lot of the civilian censorship work that both President Trump and Vice President J.D. Vance are campaigning against.
00:36:12.240
And so I understand that the strategy that the admin is pursuing is keeping the coalition together.
00:36:21.160
You know, it keeps the Lindsey Graham's and it keeps the internationalist wing of the Republican Party somewhat loyal because they're getting their cut of the corpse, so to speak.
00:36:31.800
But what you're running into here is that we're beefing up an organization that is on the other side of the negotiating table with us in terms of our own foreign policy.
00:36:43.020
So, you know, the analogy I've been giving, it's like giving a dog steroids and then telling it to stay in the house or like giving a dog amphetamines and telling it to, you know, just sit still.
00:36:55.020
It's, uh, uh, it's giving, giving more money than ever or, uh, when, uh, when we give our kids cupcakes and we tell them they're not allowed to run around or that they have to go straight to bed.
00:37:17.740
Tell people what your coordinates are because there's so much more to come of this.
00:37:23.380
And look, if president Trump wants to drop the hammer, we all know he will.
00:37:30.620
My foundations work is that foundation for freedom online.com.
00:37:33.780
You can also find my video archives on rumble and YouTube.
00:37:40.240
And in fact, uh, there was, uh, and just, by the way, there was a piece in the Washington post this last weekend saying that one of the Linsky's advisors saying, look, we're getting it.
00:37:48.060
We are getting a lot more pressure from the white house talking about financial and perhaps even intelligence cessation if they do not agree to this deal.
00:38:07.820
Real Marcus voice human events daily continues.
00:38:25.380
And he's been my friend right from the beginning of this whole beautiful event.
00:38:29.340
And we're going to turn it around and make our country great to get to him.
00:38:32.920
And what the penalty is going to be, if you burn a flag, you get one year in jail, no early exits, no nothing.
00:38:45.680
If you burn a flag, you get, and what it does is incite to riot.
00:38:58.800
You get one year in jail and it goes on your record.
00:39:01.600
And you will see flag burning, stopping immediately.
00:39:09.080
Impromptu, interesting cultural debate that President Trump has reignited here regarding the burning of an American flag.
00:39:18.960
Now, this is an interesting one because it goes all the way back to the late 1800s, early 1900s.
00:39:25.600
Because during the Spanish-American War, this is really when many states began, and World War I, this is when many states around the country began passing laws banning desecration of the U.S. flag.
00:39:39.360
By the 1930s, 48 states had statutes criminalizing, burning, mutilating, or defacing the flag of our great nation.
00:39:50.140
However, it was in the 1930s and then even a little bit after in the 1980s that the Supreme Court began striking these down.
00:40:01.600
And this is, you know, it's talking about flag burning and then really the Vietnam War is when it came up.
00:40:08.720
And the incitement statute that they're bringing up, that decision was only made in 1989.
00:40:15.260
So states have had these on the books for quite some time.
00:40:27.420
In Poland, it is a criminal act to desecrate the Polish flag.
00:40:31.440
If you do not enshrine these things in law, if they do not get special protection, then people will not believe they have any special protection.
00:40:41.320
Libby Emmons, the editor-in-chief of Human Events and the Postmillennial, is joining us now.
00:40:46.240
Libby, what do you think about the new executive order?
00:40:49.640
Yeah, I was watching this along with you and along with a lot of people here in America about the flag burning.
00:40:57.080
On the one hand, I am not in favor of burning the flag.
00:41:00.640
I don't think that that's an appropriate action.
00:41:05.020
And we should honor the country by honoring some of the symbols of the country, like our flag.
00:41:10.900
But on the other hand, looking back at the Texas v. Johnson decision from 1989 and the reasons behind burning the flag and the statute there about incitement,
00:41:22.740
I do think that it is a form of political speech to burn the flag.
00:41:27.780
We saw that in all of the instances that you mentioned.
00:41:30.480
It was a big deal, you know, in the Vietnam era and civil rights.
00:41:34.140
And so I wonder, I wonder if it's appropriate to legally ban it or if this is yet another thing that we Americans should not be told legally that we cannot do.
00:41:45.980
It's just something that we should not do and we should know better than that.
00:41:49.180
Ideally, if someone's going to burn the flag as a form of protest, it has to be the ultimate severe thing that they are actually protesting and not just, you know, your garden variety, random foreign wars.
00:42:03.340
So it does seem, though, that he's he's constructed the language and that the White House office that puts this through,
00:42:10.440
they've used language that directly relates to that 1989 case because they want this to be reviewed by the Supreme Court.
00:42:17.660
It seems very much as though they're trying to incite a Supreme Court review of this, which they know they'll obviously get.
00:42:27.080
And one thing I do love about this administration is how many things they have brought to the Supreme Court,
00:42:33.000
how many instances they say this needs review again, this needs review again.
00:42:37.560
And yeah, in the Texas v. Johnson case, what we have is a situation where the man was burning a flag as part of a protest.
00:42:47.680
It was essentially a peaceful protest other than the flag burning.
00:42:50.980
And so the Supreme Court said there was no incitement to violence.
00:42:56.560
And so because of that, we're going to say that this is protected First Amendment speech.
00:43:02.520
And yeah, including the the language about incitement, I think, is really, really important.
00:43:07.940
I think you're exactly right about that, because what the administration is saying is if you are burning a flag as part of,
00:43:14.900
you know, a violent action as part of an incitement to further mayhem, then that's something that's going to be punishable with a year in jail.
00:43:24.580
Another thing that they did in this EO that I found interesting was they put this flag burning under more scrutiny by local law.
00:43:33.460
So they're saying if you're local law enforcement and someone is burning a flag as part of a protest or anything else in a place that is not legally allowed for open burning
00:43:43.680
or in a place where, you know, this can be considered property destruction, like it's somebody else's flag,
00:43:49.240
which is something that we've seen in some of the protests and riots in Seattle and Portland,
00:43:53.700
where they take somebody else's flag and then desecrate it,
00:43:57.120
then that is something that local law enforcement really needs to pay attention to.
00:44:01.460
So those are a few areas that are different, that make it different from the Texas v. Johnson case.
00:44:07.600
And I would love to see this back before the Supreme Court.
00:44:10.200
I think it's definitely time, especially given the situation where so many localities and municipalities have put into place hate crime type of laws against burning pride flags.
00:44:23.840
Well, before we go there, and you're right, of course, the left would totally be for this if it was about pride flags or trans flags or anything else.
00:44:33.100
Notwithstanding the Supreme Court's rulings on First Amendment protections, the court has never held that American flag desecration conducted in a manner that is likely to incite imminent lawless action
00:44:46.600
or that is an action amounting to, quote, fighting words, is constitutionally protected.
00:44:52.280
And they specifically cite the Texas v. Johnson case of 1989.
00:44:56.020
And so this is exactly what they're talking about.
00:45:00.200
They're saying that in these, basically, I guess it's like if you're going to perhaps, you know, burn a flag on your own property in private,
00:45:11.420
that this is based on my, and I'm not a lawyer, my reading of it,
00:45:15.620
but it seems as though that would not necessarily be covered by this.
00:45:19.180
But what they are talking about, and I think we just had it up there, some, one of the crazy Union Station riots that was going on, one of more of those situations.
00:45:30.640
And if you look at this, this footage, and we've seen a lot of footage like this.
00:45:38.680
But if you look at this kind of footage and what they're doing, this is intentionally designed to be inciting, right?
00:45:44.940
I mean, a lot of these kinds of protests are the ones that in 2020 then would see the destruction of statues,
00:45:51.320
which also Trump has signed an executive order saying that that's absolutely not allowed.
00:45:56.280
And I think that a lot of times what protesters are doing, what?
00:46:01.680
Oh, I was just going to add, there's an, there is a line here specifically pointing out that this isn't,
00:46:07.480
this is also being used by foreign nationals now.
00:46:10.740
And we saw this in the LA riots to act to intimidate and threaten violence against Americans because of their,
00:46:19.840
They're talking about Americans whose nationality is American and that their place of birth is America.
00:46:26.420
So why would a foreign national be given first amendment protections to burn our flag in our country when they're not even from here?
00:46:37.180
I mean, I would even, if we had longer time and maybe, who knows, maybe we'll see each other in Timcast this week at some point.
00:46:43.480
That, hint, hint, that, you know, the, the phrase freedom of expression is found nowhere in the bill of rights.
00:46:51.780
This is something that was added on by courts in later in the 20th century.
00:46:55.680
I don't think the founding fathers ever intended for the first amendment to include freedom of expression, any and all expressions.
00:47:06.080
I mean, they used to tar and feather people back in those days, but they didn't write that that was protected by the first amendment at all.
00:47:13.540
And they clearly could have, I mean, this was a time of great public political, uh, intersection where you saw things like that, but they didn't protect that.
00:47:23.240
And I think that is the spoken word and the written word.
00:47:26.080
I don't think that it extends to this crazy broad, uh, broad place where we brought it now.
00:47:35.480
It also brings up the question of, um, campaign contributions.
00:47:40.960
Is our political contributions freedom of speech?
00:47:43.580
And then you also have questions, um, we saw last year in New York city, pro-Palestinian protests where people were taking down American flags, not burning them or desecrating them, but taking them down and putting up Palestinian flags instead.
00:47:57.420
Is that something that is protected speech or is that a violation against the flag and against symbols of America?
00:48:09.020
And of course, always be reading humanevents.com and the post millennial.com.
00:48:13.740
Ladies and gentlemen, as always, you have my permission to lay a short.