THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 109 — Tyler Robinson In Court？ AI George Washington？ Charlie, Person of the Year？
Episode Stats
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Summary
Join Jack Posobiec and co-hosts Blake Neff and Cliff Maloney as they discuss the ruling from the judge regarding cameras being allowed in the courtroom for Tyler Robinson's trial. They also discuss the newly released courtroom video footage of Robinson.
Transcript
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DNSA specifically targets the communications of everyone.
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We've got breaking news hard and fast in the Tyler Robinson trial.
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So the judge is currently ruling on information regarding and motions regarding whether or
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not cameras will be allowed in the courtroom for Tyler Robinson, who is the accused murderer
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And I've been seeing a lot of information that Judge Graf made a ruling regarding cameras
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However, people need to understand that the ruling that just came down, and I see this
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going viral online even as we speak, that was only about cameras in the courtroom today
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as pertains to this specific hearing and possibly pre-cloud hearings in general.
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There's also mention, and I've got this from a reporter that Graf wrote, or excuse me, stated
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that we've set aside the 30th of January, and that might be the one that wants to say to argue
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our anticipated motion that's coming about keeping court with other cameras in the courtroom.
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So on January 30th is the one that they're making that ruling for.
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They're not making a ruling yet as of this time for the entire courtroom trial.
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Blake, Matthew, is this your understanding as well?
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It went out in a few places that they'd already ruled, but that's not surprising.
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Kind of everything about this case seems to take forever, which we complained about on
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And I promptly got an email from another person who works in other murder trials, and she
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She said she's seen absolute open and shut gangbanger shooting cases take two years to
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And so that sadly might be like this, even for something as basic as getting cameras into
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the courtroom, which we're all hoping for, I think.
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Besides that, I guess the main thing we've gotten out of this, because people need something
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to feast on is we do have really our first in a courtroom video footage of Tyler Robinson.
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We have people analyzing his facial expressions, because there's not too much to analyze otherwise
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Whether the look on his face in profile, which we're showing right now, is he smiling?
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I'll admit, I've only gotten a chance to look at it a few times.
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You can see a sort of grin a few times, but I could understand if someone said it was otherwise.
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And by the way, guys, I'm going to share in the chat right now, I just got the otter note
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So if you guys want to get it in, there's an audio issue for me.
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It's like you're skipping record occasionally, like a little hiccup, but we'll survive.
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The media access, actually, January 30th has now moved, because the hearing is still going
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I would say, though, if you have, does anyone have that picture of Charlie, or excuse me,
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Charlie, of Tyler Robinson, this, you know, where it's kind of zoomed in?
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And Blake, you know, to your point, I'll send it in the chat.
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But I didn't necessarily see him laughing in this video, but there's one spot where
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And, you know, there are times where Brian Enten, out of News Nation, who does a lot
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of this reporting, he said that, you know, sometimes it can be a tactic by defense teams
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to say, try to look more human, try to smile, try to humanize yourself with the jury or any
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potential jurors who might be watching, so act normal.
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And yet, when you see this specific image of him smiling, and you see sort of the way
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that he's acting, I mean, to me, he looks very smug.
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And we're going to get that up and show you guys in just a second.
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But this is, I'm just going to say, guys, this was very, it was hard to watch, right?
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It was really hard for me to watch and see this guy yucking it up with his lawyers there
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at the table and grinning and certainly not looking remorseful, certainly not looking as
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though he's sad that we're in the proceedings for the death of a good man, the death of a
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father, the death of a husband, he's just, you know, pretty nonchalant and, you know,
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having a good time, hanging out like he doesn't have a care in the world.
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And, you know, I don't know the strategy or what, but I got very upset watching this
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And I, yeah, I can't even really say publicly what I want to say.
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What were your thoughts when you saw this video?
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Well, I think this was a big moment for everybody, at least for me.
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I mean, I texted Tyler about this when I first saw the image of him grinning.
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In a weird way, I think all of us are dealing with this in different ways and it still comes
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in waves and sometimes it still doesn't feel real.
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When he, seeing him like as an actual person, I'm not calling him that, he's nice, not worthy
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of being called a human being, he's a piece of garbage.
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And I think it was a moment, you know, to see him not just as, you know, hey, this prisoner
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who we saw briefly in the, you know, the prison garb, but now to be in a dress shirt and a tie
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And let me just say this to everybody out there.
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There's going to be so much that they have to prove that he is a person, that he was
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There are so many, I want to call them preliminary things, but things that for most normal folks,
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if you've never been into a criminal trial, if you've never seen one, there are so many
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mundane things that the prosecutors are going to have to prove that are real things.
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But in the court of law, you have to prove those things.
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And so I do think we should be prepared for this to be a long, drawn out battle.
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We're hoping that this is all going to be on camera, not to glamorize him, but let the
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And let's have an open trial so that there's full transparency.
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Yeah, I really think it's one of those things where there's a lot of, I think a lot of the
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issues we've encountered with what people say about this, it comes from the psychic overload
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that people have such strong feelings about Charlie and about what happened to him.
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And instead of having an unfolding trial with facts, instead of having all the truly actually
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quite lurid information about Tyler Robinson and his private life, I think that could be
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But it's taking a long time because these court proceedings take so long.
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And so they're getting diverted into other things.
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I think it's a big argument in favor of we should, as a country, spend more on our justice
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system, have more prosecutors, more judges, whatever it takes to have faster hearings,
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faster trials, faster turnaround on this sort of thing.
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You used to be able to do serious trials with serious evidence and serious proceedings within
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the last hundred years without nearly as much delay for this sort of thing.
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There have been attempted assassins of presidents who are tried, convicted, in a fair trial, and
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in their cases executed within a two, three-month time window.
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You don't necessarily even need this to be that fast.
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But it feels very disappointing to me that anyone in a high-profile murder case is taking
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half a year before you're even getting to jury selection.
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And that's why I'm saying that, Blake, I agree with you.
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But I think it's our job to kind of set the expectation with viewers of the show and people
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that love Charlie, this is not going to be a four-month thing, right?
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There's going to be tons of these just things that, from an outside perspective, you're going
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Sometimes it's for the prosecutors, you know, to kind of get the jury mad at the other side
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But I think, you know, the other thing is selecting a jury in this case, you know, to have a jury that's
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I think it's hard to find someone, especially now with the news coverage, that doesn't know
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And so you're going to have a heck of a jury selection to try to figure out, you know,
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and some of these rulings are going to be crucial on who the judge lets in, who the judge
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And I think that's going to be a key part, you know, to what the prosecution has to do is
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to making sure that this isn't some issue that goes to a mistrial later, because one
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of the jurors says that, oh, they weren't familiar with it, or they don't know who Charlie
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Like, we're in an age now where everyone has access to social media.
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So that, to me, is going to be a very, very interesting part of this process.
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So one thing that I'm getting from a friend of mine who was watching this and does some
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work in the true crime, you know, kind of like policy trial, so it says that Erica was
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And something that a lot of people have pointed out that could come up in terms of some of
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the firestorm, the media that's already going on, is the Utah Witness Intimidation Law.
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So this is something, by the way, this is something that comes up in a number of these cases when
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people have followed them so closely, but then become so, shall I say, so targeted at
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Under Utah law, a person committing witness tampering or intimidation, if they attempt to
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improperly influence the testimony of someone they know that might testify, to prevent someone
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from testifying, threaten, harass, or retaliate against someone because of their role, engage
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in conduct intending to make a witness fearful, silent, or less cooperative with the justice
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process, Utah specifically criminalizes threats, harassment, public accusations intended to
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be discredit, public pressure campaigns that could show testimony retaliatory conduct towards
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victims or victim advocates or designated representatives, public statements, even online, can use the
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definition that the intent is to affect testimony or cooperation.
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And so this is something that has come up in a number of these cases where, you know, you
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But people have to remember that they are active cases.
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And in fact, there are laws on the books that govern anyone who can get involved in any
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way, you know, that is getting involved in these cases.
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And these laws have been on the books for a long time.
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Blake, walk us through why we have laws like this.
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I mean, we have laws like this because those are the things that people do to escape culpability
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And also, frankly, a part of it is also there a way like our glorious Supreme Court has made
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And so one of the ways they've gone about it is they've said, you have to have some aggravating
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factors before we will allow a heinous perpetrator to face appropriate punishment for their crimes.
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And so you definitely see facets of that throughout the indictment of Tyler Robinson, where they
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threw in that charge for doing something in the presence of a minor.
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And I think the witness intimidation stuff comes into that because when you're doing stuff
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against witnesses, that's another thing that's considered a valid aggravating factor.
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They're clearly, they structured the indictment in a way to make sure a court couldn't swoop
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in later and say there were no aggravating factors.
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So you can't try to bring the death penalty in this case.
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I just wanted to, I just want to throw up something, guys, because I have this.
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So the official term is, and, you know, mea culpa, if I use the wrong term, she is recognized
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So she'd be officially recognized as the designated victim representative.
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And so that means she has a right to attend the trial.
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But as such, a lot of these witness intimidation laws could potentially, if the judge decides
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to, cover the designated victim representative as well, which means they cover Erica.
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And, I mean, Blake, to your point, there's a basic reason we don't want people intimidating
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victims in a trial because we want actual justice.
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Well, for the same reason, we want actual justice.
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So that's why these laws on witness intimidation also cover victim representative intimidation
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Yeah, and if I'm, if I'm understanding this correctly, why I think this opens up a can
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of worms in a good way is because now all of a sudden, you know, look, defamation, all
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of us know, you know, some of the vile things we've seen and some of these horrific things
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that people say about us or anybody that's involved with Charlie or New Charlie, you know,
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the standard for defamation is pretty much impossible in the United States.
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I mean, for public figures, it is pretty much something where to be successful in a defamation
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But now I'm hearing this and I'm thinking to myself, you know, now it makes it, I think,
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much more doable that if Erica or the state wanted to go after somebody that is literally
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threatening her in a way or defaming her in a way that could intimidate her as a potential
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witness or as, you know, the victim representative, am I saying that correctly?
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Does that open the door where it's much more liable for somebody to go after somebody that
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Because with defamation, it's pretty much impossible.
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It's ultimately up to prosecutors in this case.
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But yes, it does give her an official standing with the court and in the trial.
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So what it means and this has come up in other cases where in other parts of the country where
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people have been harassed, intimidated and then taken it up with the courts.
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And they've they've gone back and found rulings on their behalf and said, look, you can't
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interfere with someone who's directly involved with a trial like this.
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It is what they view as a form of witness intimidation jury and actually tampering with
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And by the way, you know, just from a personal perspective, I want everyone to comment on
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If you disagree, if you think if you're one of these people who is I've been calling them
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So the Tyler Robin Sims who actually support Tyler Robinson and they think that he's completely
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innocent and think that there's no way he could have done it and think this.
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I'm not calling for them to be arrested or charged or anything like that.
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And I think they have a perfectly fine First Amendment right.
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You've perfectly had a right to ask questions in this country called the First Amendment.
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That said, people should be aware that the laws are on the book.
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Because very simply, I'm just reading here, victims have rights.
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There's a Bill of Rights for Victims and it includes the victim to not be the freedom to
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not be publicly harassed, continually abuse, protection from activations, mobilization of
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And so this means that in a sense, and I'm reading this, Erica is now officially tied to
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the prosecution and the prosecution can take actions to protect her.
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And that's just something that is going to be another future of this case, I believe,
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I feel like that would be what you're alluded to would be a stretch.
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But I guess I would probably appreciate it if it happened.
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It's actually the law in Utah, it's not a stretch at all.
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Yeah, I mean, it's the law, but it would be, there's laws and then it's, how do you use
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I would be, I would be very pleasantly surprised if we saw, if we saw it used in that way.
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I'm just saying, I have no idea if it would or it wouldn't.
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But we have seen people face charges for victim intimidation before in other states.
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I'd have to read more on what they specifically did in those cases, though.
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Well, again, we're just talking about the liability.
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So this, the fact that she is now the official designation means that there are certain laws
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that apply to Erica that prior to this did not.
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And if I had to ask you guys, how long, how long do you guys think that this lasts?
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I mean, what, what's a, I mean, is it, are we talking about a year and a half?
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I mean, if you really want to know if it's a capital case, if he gets the death penalty,
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You've seen how often they love to drag these things out.
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Even without that, it's a, it's a great cause of the left to get people who have life in
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prison out on parole somehow, especially if it is life without parole.
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We're given that promise all of the time and it doesn't pan out.
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There are just people out there who love criminals.
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They love letting people who've committed heinous crimes roam free in society again.
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So I feel rather, unfortunately, I just can't truly imagine this being over, over for tragically
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They'll find some way to perpetuate this case far beyond what it should be.
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Do we have any intel on how he's funding his defense?
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So, um, it's a, it comes from a public pot of money.
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And so he's given a public pot of money that was granted to him.
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I could, I could pull up in a second exactly, um, about his legal team, but yes, it does come
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And they're, they did give him, because it's a capital case, they are then giving him access
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to a higher amount of funds they would, if, then if it were a, uh, you know, if there
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were just a misdemeanor case, a felony case, but because it's a capital murder case, they
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are giving him access to far more funds because of course, this is why the state wants this
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because they don't want, um, let's say he's convicted.
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They don't want him to be able to come back around on the field and say, oh, I had ineffective,
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uh, you know, ineffective counsel or something like that.
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Um, got it, but yes, it is, it's taxpayer funded and we'll say to people.
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Uh, Blake, what, what, what do you, what did you make of the, well, here's something else
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So his parents, we, we are told on reporters who are in a courtroom, including Gen News
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Nation, that his parents did attend the trial as well as one of his brothers.
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Uh, and it sounds like his mother was very emotional.
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Uh, it sounds like, uh, she was, she was fine while she was, um, waiting for, there, there
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was a portion of this that was held behind closed doors while they were sort of making
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And, uh, uh, Brian Nettin mentioned that his mother has, was all at one point, they asked
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for the family to stay in the courtroom, but then the judge actually asked them to leave
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the courtroom during the, uh, during the trial phase or during that argument phase and said
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the mother was outside in the courtroom, out of the courtroom, just crying.
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And, and look, I keep saying over and over, you know, for people who have been telling
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me that, oh, Tyler Robinson, the plants, you know, this isn't, this isn't real, or it's
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sort of like, guys, his, his parents were the ones who, who turned him in.
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And if they thought their son was innocent, that if he was falsely accused, you know, they,
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they have all the opportunity in the world to speak to media that eyes, the water on them
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today, not one of them walked up to media and said, my son is innocent.
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Um, we have the Oswald famously referred to himself as a patsy.
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And you just don't see anyone from the family coming out and saying that, uh, that they believe
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And look, we see these images of Tyler Robinson, these sick images of him.
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And I've just found a new image, by the way, I'm going to sound it as well.
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It's very well, very clear that he's grinning and, you know, caught in 4k.
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I guess that's not, that's not the best thing to say.
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He's sitting there grinning while Charlie's family is going to go through Christmas with
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Can we not talk about how he looks like Beto O'Rourke?
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Today, in that outfit was the first time I saw that.
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That ruling was interesting when they said, hey, we need to clear out.
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We're going to make some decisions about cameras and we're going to have some debate
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And they obviously, you know, the defense said, hey, we want to request the family can
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But I find that to be very, very interesting because a lot of times you'll see judges start
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And if early on they're going the direction of, hey, we're going to, you know, be with
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the defense, that becomes a problem if you're obviously rooting for the prosecutors.
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And so I think some of these early decisions can kind of show what type of temperament the
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And for the judge to say that Tyler Robinson's family does not get special treatment, they
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are not allowed to stay in the courtroom, that all members of the public have to leave.
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And so one other piece for people to understand is that people are asking, will Erica testify?
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And so likely, I mean, it's certainly possible that anyone can call witnesses, but it's more
00:25:06.060
likely that as a victim representative that she will be giving a statement not during the
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trial phase, but there's two phases to a death penalty trial.
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And a death penalty trial in those states, including the states of, you know, state of
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Utah, that they've, the victim doesn't testify until, so there's a conviction, then there's
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another phase, which is the conviction that our first testimony brought in, and that's
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when you feel what's the order called victim impact statement.
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And those victim impact statements are the ones that come in there.
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And we have a second one, but it's a, it's a lighter topic.
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So I would like, I don't want to hit it until we're ready to move on to the next one.
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Cause I don't want to taint this very serious topic with it, but we are aware of your earlier
00:26:03.120
We'll be reading off yours in a sec here, but, uh, do we have anything else we want to hit
00:26:07.480
on this, uh, on this, I have one last, one last, one last question.
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I mean, technically we don't even know if he has, he hasn't entered a plea yet.
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Um, so as far as we know, yes, he easily could just, he could plead guilty.
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And I'm, I'm looking at the chat and the chat, just, just most people that I'm are just appalled
00:26:39.360
the same way that I am to see him smiling, to see him grinning, laughing it up.
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That's, that's all as far as I'm going to go right now.
00:27:02.300
Um, yeah, I mean, the chat is just, the chat's livid.
00:27:10.760
I was saying they're making him, you know, it's, it's so awful that they're making him
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Um, you know, he's, he's grinning, smiling, laughing.
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Uh, Namarston asked, can they have cameras in the courtroom or not?
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He ruled that they could have cameras in the courtroom today for today's hearing, but
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We all want to see this move more quickly, but that is the situation we have right now.
00:27:50.660
So the hearing, the hearing, you can tell February 3rd.
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We've got two months before we even get a next hearing on that.
00:28:00.680
Just, uh, yeah, it's, it's, it's as stressful for us as it is for everyone else.
00:28:08.180
And Blake, I actually, when you said 30 years, I kind of hit me in the gut, but you're right.
00:28:11.480
I mean, this thing could be a very, very long process.
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I was, I once read in, in the seventies, uh, there was a serial killer in Houston and, uh,
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several of them, in fact, it was a group operation.
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So one of them died and the other went to prison for life and due to some glorious quirk of the
00:28:31.160
judicial system, that person is eligible for parole.
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And so they, they literally were a group that abducted children and murdered them.
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And every couple of years, the parents of one of their last victims have to go to the court
00:28:46.480
to present their arguments for why the person who murdered their child should not be out on
00:28:52.680
And it's just, we'll just, this will continue as long as they are alive.
00:28:57.160
And I just think about what a tragedy that is for a person who like their entire life
00:29:04.600
They used it to destroy other people's lives and we preserve them for some reason.
00:29:12.220
I don't understand why we moved away from justice as a principle that our state can wield, but
00:29:20.900
And it leads to a lot of re-traumatization of, of people like those parents, like Erica
00:29:31.760
And Cliff, you might know this because it's Philadelphia of Mumia Abu-Jamal.
00:29:41.280
So, Mumia, this is a guy who, think about this, he killed a police officer, Black Panther,
00:29:47.360
so he shot a police officer in cold blood before I was born in 1980.
00:29:53.360
Well, he killed him in 1981, then he sentenced to death in 1982.
00:29:57.420
And years and years and years go by, 20 years go by, he's still alive, he's still on death
00:30:07.500
The widow of the police officer who is so young, Maureen Faulkner, the wife of Danny Faulkner,
00:30:13.120
you know, widow of Danny Faulkner, is, is begging over and over for this justice to be
00:30:19.800
And then eventually, 30 years after the murder, because things have become so woke in the city
00:30:25.260
of Philadelphia, that in 2011, the prosecution simply agrees to change his sentence to life
00:30:33.380
So, he gets life without parole, he's in Gen Pop, and this is what they can do there now.
00:30:41.600
You have, you know, like Rage Against the Machine and all these people coming in for him.
00:30:46.040
And so, Blake, to your point, this is a big problem when we wait so long to execute murderers
00:30:52.840
that emotions fade, memories fade, people move on to other things, and different narratives
00:31:01.560
And in this case, they waited so long that the case was actually taken away, the sentence
00:31:06.560
was actually taken away, and now we just have life in prison.
00:31:10.080
Like, people, I think there is a psychic feeling across America that they think there's a lack
00:31:18.960
You often hear that in reference to COVID, that lockdowns were obviously a catastrophic
00:31:22.840
decision, a ton of people suffered a lot, and then nobody ever was really held accountable
00:31:27.560
financially, criminally, socially even, for what they did.
00:31:31.880
Like, at a minimum, someone responsible for something that bad should feel a little ashamed
00:31:39.060
And I do feel that's one of the important arguments in favor of capital punishment.
00:31:44.340
There should be a high-profile way, something that goes on semi-regularly if you're in a society
00:31:50.580
with crimes, that reminds you people who do grave works of evil will be ripped out of society
00:31:59.800
And I don't think it's a surprise that when you have a society afraid to execute the worst
00:32:06.340
malefactors, you have a society that is increasingly detached from any principle of right and wrong
00:32:20.160
Yeah, and look, I mean, I spent a lot of time, I mean, Trump's first term, the First Step Act,
00:32:23.980
right, a lot of people on the right, criminal justice reform, we were all about it.
00:32:30.520
And this is where I think a lot of people on the left have kind of lost it, not just
00:32:33.380
with defund the police, but it becomes at any law on the books, you know, we need to have
00:32:37.580
sympathy for those because the justice system is flawed.
00:32:45.480
But this idea of like soft on crime across the board, it's kind of this vicious, like,
00:32:53.140
And to me, like you said, when you have these things that are very, very much not what I
00:32:58.340
would call nonviolent, these horrific crimes, I think it should be the opposite.
00:33:02.060
Like you said, we should make an example of these people.
00:33:04.760
And I took a look, I spent a lot of time being against the death penalty, probably 10
00:33:08.880
And to be frank with you guys, this was probably the moment where I realized when something
00:33:13.500
hit close to home with somebody that we knew that, you know, it's easy to theorize about
00:33:19.480
that and to say, well, you know, I don't trust the government to kill somebody.
00:33:22.980
But in certain circumstances, it is very justified.
00:33:29.180
We have got a question from a gibberish nation asked, can the feds go back and charge
00:33:33.320
Robinson with causing Charlie to lose his federal rights by murder and thereby seek the death
00:33:39.780
penalty if it is not obtained through the state court?
00:33:43.220
I suppose the most important question is, is that, do you guys know, is that a capital
00:33:46.720
offense, a deprivation of civil rights in that matter?
00:33:55.620
You would have to charge him with a form of terrorism, I believe, to be a capital offense.
00:34:04.300
I'm sure that that has entered their mind as a way.
00:34:07.620
Yeah, terrorism, maybe they could get some sort of federal murder charge.
00:34:13.700
They're always creative with those if they cross federal property to do it or something
00:34:19.900
I wouldn't be surprised if that's on the table.
00:34:21.620
But part of that is that's one of the things about it taking so long.
00:34:23.960
Are you going to suddenly come in and charge him if this verdict is finally reached a year
00:34:35.940
But again, by the time that would be done, you might be in a new presidential administration,
00:34:44.740
Obviously, we want justice for Charlie, but you don't want to get in the habit of the federal
00:34:48.180
government coming in and finding some law or something that they can.
00:34:55.320
If the government wants to come after you, they can.
00:34:59.980
So I do want justice here, but let's just get the win here in Utah and not try to find
00:35:06.700
a way that the federal government can come in and try to.
00:35:10.280
Of course, if the feds wanted to do it, they could try to do it.
00:35:12.820
It'd be unprecedented, but they could try to do it.
00:35:15.620
I don't think we want to be in the position where the federal government, God willing,
00:35:21.520
I don't want them backdating things and coming after us for random acts that they deem as some
00:35:28.100
I mean, you certainly can add that Derek Chauvin got federal charges added to his state charges.
00:35:36.180
So, I mean, this this wouldn't be the first time that there were there were two sets of
00:35:41.820
And I'm not saying it's prudent necessarily do so, but certainly just in a basic answer
00:35:48.100
to the question, yes, the federal government can do that and certainly have the right to
00:35:52.100
So, all right, it looks like it looks like I just want to say because they did donate
00:35:58.340
I said I do it when we got to change topics, but the chat is super locked into this topic.
00:36:02.140
So I think we're staying zeroed in on the Robinson saga, but I wanted to call this.
00:36:06.380
So be Jordan two, four, five, six, three donated $20 and said, appreciate the show, guys.
00:36:13.060
And hoping the Sharon Moore situation might come up this week.
00:36:16.380
For those who don't know, the coach of Michigan football got caught, I believe, impregnating
00:36:23.060
That would be an amazing topic, but we have a more serious topic that is very close to our
00:36:28.940
hearts that does deserve our full attention this week.
00:36:48.480
Someone's just a Chad 89 says Antifa being a terrorist organization could be enough for
00:36:55.860
I guess you would have to find you would have to be able to prove that he even considered
00:37:03.520
So that would be something where if we have a very thorough look at his discord messages,
00:37:10.440
any chat groups he was in, you might be able to find that.
00:37:14.440
But if he's not, if he never uses Antifa to describe himself, if he's not in contact,
00:37:20.540
It's always there are things that can bring you down.
00:37:23.680
So I don't I guess I would encourage us to view this trial as by far our best shot to
00:37:32.420
And we would only consider alternatives if that's just not going to come to pass.
00:37:38.600
And also, as an example, the Maggioni case, depending on where you take this, you know,
00:37:43.320
you got to make sure you have a judge that actually believes in upholding the law.
00:37:46.360
So the regime of Maggioni was charged under federal terrorism.
00:37:50.400
And the judge in that case, this liberal judge, actually threw it out.
00:37:54.840
So he threw out the terrorism charge because he said that, well, this isn't terrorism that
00:38:01.700
when Maggioni murdered the health care CEO and the judge, as a liberal, said that it wasn't
00:38:07.380
terrorism because it was only murdering one person and that his actions weren't intended
00:38:16.660
Despite the fact that he, just like Tyler Robinson, wrote political slogans on his bullet, had
00:38:22.980
a manifesto, had all the intent in the world to spark what he called justice for, you know,
00:38:30.880
the issues in the health care system, inequality in the health care system.
00:38:34.340
And yet the judge said, and the judge actually imparted his ruling in that because in the
00:38:39.020
New York, this isn't even a state judge, so I may have to double-check myself, but I
00:38:44.600
remember it was the terrorism charge, and I thought I'm talking about it.
00:38:47.060
But he said that the way the statute was written was that it affected harm to civilians.
00:38:54.180
And under the statute, he ruled that health care workers don't count as civilians because
00:39:02.480
I mean, it was the most twisted ruling and the most twisted reading of the statute that
00:39:07.900
And I'm like, this guy must obviously be a liberal to say that, oh, well, if you work
00:39:11.920
for a health care company, you're not a civilian.
00:39:13.820
It's like, yeah, that's exactly how Allmark was saying.
00:39:20.480
Yeah, one point I'll make, I mean, you know, I've seen a lot of these different cases where
00:39:24.460
the law can say, you know, the sky is blue, but if a judge says, hey, you know, today it's
00:39:30.340
red, it's like, it really, once again, there are flaws in the justice system, and some of
00:39:35.500
these judges and some of the rulings, it can be as clear as day to all of us.
00:39:39.540
And, you know, I mean, these judges are elected, right, or they're appointed by somebody that
00:39:43.100
we elected, and that system's supposed to work, but sometimes it's just broken, and it stinks,
00:39:48.560
And so I've been asked, say, what is the psychology of a Robin Simp?
00:39:58.200
So do you guys know, so a Robin Simper, so a Robin Simper is who, and not just ask questions
00:40:04.400
about the public narrative, but you ask questions, you ask questions about evidence, ask questions
00:40:09.020
about the FBI, fine, go ahead, First Amendment right.
00:40:11.440
But there are people that are full on Tyler Robin Simper, who are just like, this guy didn't
00:40:15.500
do it, I don't believe the parents, I don't believe any of it.
00:40:17.920
But, you know, he needs to get off, we need to work to get him off, and that makes you
00:40:22.480
And are you guys familiar with the term pro-burgers?
00:40:35.160
So have you, but do you guys remember Brian Koberger, as in the murderer up in Idaho of those
00:40:42.140
Oh, oh, the guy who looks like Richard Hanania crossed with Josh Hawley?
00:40:48.600
And it kind of looks a bit like Tyler Robinson, because he doesn't lie.
00:40:52.640
So the pro-burgers are a subset of the true crime community, where they completely believe
00:41:00.000
that Brian Koberger is innocent, that he was set up, that someone else did that.
00:41:06.080
And they have formed, it's kind of a mini cult.
00:41:08.860
They have this parasocial relationship with a variety of people who lead the pro-burger
00:41:14.700
cult, and it's basically like a fandom cult of him.
00:41:18.940
They have shrines, they have song, they have, like, edits of Brian Koberger.
00:41:24.220
Obviously, you see this a lot with Luigi Maggioni, who rated that.
00:41:27.220
Um, and you see, you even see people taking trips to go and visit the places associated
00:41:34.620
with Brian Koberger, because they believed so strongly in his, uh, in his innocence.
00:41:41.480
But it's beyond, it's so far beyond just, you know, oh, I think this guy didn't do it.
00:41:46.600
It's literally become their identity, because I don't know if, it's like, you don't have
00:41:51.900
meaning at home, or you're disconnected and disassociated with life.
00:41:56.220
Um, it is female-coded, bad to say, it's just true.
00:41:59.580
It's, uh, it's very female-coded, where, yeah, they will completely allow this to subsume
00:42:06.260
Well, what's funny is, I have to imagine, really deep down, they would not want him to
00:42:11.600
be innocent, because clearly their actual thought is that he did do it.
00:42:15.680
They just, this is weird to say, they think it's hot, I guess?
00:42:22.800
Like, I don't think they would find this guy terribly interesting if he wasn't a murderer.
00:42:33.800
Hybristophilia is a, hybristophilia, I'm sorry if my audio is being messed up again.
00:42:42.220
It's a type of sexual attraction for people who commit serious crimes.
00:42:45.680
Now, you saw this, uh, with the, the Columbine shooters.
00:42:51.860
You saw this with the Boston Bombers over at Don Aya, where people who are, um, I believe
00:42:59.460
There are, Ted Bundy got married while he was still in jail.
00:43:02.640
And, you know, they, they believe that they're super attracted sexually to bad boys, criminals,
00:43:08.600
deviance, and they want those typical risky, you know, risky relationships.
00:43:16.320
So yeah, Ted Bundy, um, I'm, I wouldn't surprise me if there were people who were attracted to
00:43:21.780
It's, it's absolutely a certain, um, paraphilia that's out there.
00:43:25.620
And it's this desire for intense, risky relationship.
00:43:29.600
You want, like, did Jeffrey Dahmer get letters in jail just saying, like, please eat me,
00:43:35.820
And this is, this is why you see, I mean, a lot of the true crime documentaries, it's
00:43:39.020
kind of wild to me how many of these serial killers have so many lovers, right?
00:43:44.980
Um, and it directly comes from, like you said, that, that weird desire, uh, to be with the
00:43:49.540
bad boys, if you will, you even get funnier versions, funny sub versions of that.
00:43:55.460
Like, um, didn't Martin, Martin Shkreli had that journalist fall in love with him while
00:44:00.860
And I think she, did she leave her, she like left her boyfriend or, or even left her husband
00:44:06.500
And this was a purely non-physical relationship.
00:44:08.480
He was in prison the whole time and then he got out and I think they, they quite promptly
00:44:35.620
I just felt like it wasn't spectacular enough to get a woman swooning for you over it, but
00:44:42.360
And then he, man, I haven't heard about that guy since he, he kind of tried to get
00:44:45.680
Barron Trump into that crypto thing, but I guess that's getting a little off topic.
00:45:00.220
And we only have a couple of more minutes because we do, unfortunately, have a hard
00:45:07.140
And just looking through the chat right here again.
00:45:15.600
Throw that picture of Tyler Robinson up again from the court today.
00:45:22.340
Because I, I, there is something I want to say when we look at this picture.
00:45:36.460
This is not the way that a person would comport themselves if they were thinking, oh, I was
00:45:47.400
I didn't see in a single one of these images or videos, any image of him actually looking
00:46:01.000
And look, you know, say what you want about me.
00:46:07.560
But this guy, this guy's sitting there looking smug.
00:46:13.640
The other thing that bothers me is the longer that this case goes, it's just going to continuously
00:46:20.000
I mean, obviously, I want attention to honor Charlie, but it's just going to be more fodder
00:46:25.360
Every time that this is live, every time it's out there, every time there's something new
00:46:28.940
and this grin, obviously, you know, the first time we're seeing him, it should make us all
00:46:34.080
And I'm sure the people that, you know, praise him and the people that celebrated the death
00:46:38.140
of Charlie, you know, they love seeing that, right?
00:46:40.880
This gives them something else to share, something else to celebrate.
00:46:54.060
Yeah, well, we have a good, we have a nice message.
00:46:56.880
We have this one from Kyrie McAllen, another, I see her in the chat all the time.
00:47:03.060
Kyrie donated to 10 and says, please give us who love Charlie, his family, the Charlie Kirk
00:47:09.100
show team, and all the teams of Turning Point some practical ways that we can share the
00:47:15.700
arrows, as Ali Stuckey says, that are being directed at all of you.
00:47:21.240
You know, I think the best way is know the details of this case.
00:47:35.200
Jack, I want to close out this thought before we lose it, because you should.
00:47:42.580
And you can also go read, search a guy named Turkey Tom.
00:47:46.680
There's a video you can look up called, I believe it is, The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk.
00:47:51.380
Obviously, he's presumed innocent, but that is the title of the video.
00:48:11.520
Okay, it is titled The Man Who Killed Charlie Kirk.
00:48:13.820
And there's also a, if you prefer reading, there's a substack post that you can find by
00:48:18.500
And what it gets into is it gets into the evidence about his personal life, his relationship
00:48:25.140
with his boyfriend, the evidence, you know, the stuff people have said is weird, such as
00:48:30.800
him calling his boyfriend my love in their messages, the guy saying that is, in fact, how
00:48:37.360
If you guys want to help share the arrows, learn those facts, because the most common thing
00:48:41.940
you see is you see the Robin simps, as they're calling them, who are going to just
00:48:54.940
In truth, I think they're saying this because this is a drawn out process and not enough
00:49:00.660
of it is on TV, basically, for them to feel like it's real.
00:49:06.300
The evidence in this case, we believe, is quite strong.
00:49:09.960
If we thought it was fake, if we thought they had the wrong guy, we would obviously be freaking
00:49:15.160
out because we care deeply that the correct person be brought to justice for this.
00:49:21.040
So the best way you can share those arrows is know those facts.
00:49:24.220
So if it comes up in passing, you're able to say, oh, man, did you hear about this?
00:49:29.400
Did you hear about the stuff that they were into?
00:49:37.140
You could make a fascinating, there will be fascinating true crime documentaries about
00:49:45.140
It is incredibly upsetting to see the life, the lives that these people were leading and
00:49:51.220
to think that this allowed a person to go and to just go and randomly strike down a person
00:49:58.560
So maybe you have your own thoughts, Cliff, but that's my thought on how to share the load.
00:50:03.540
Yeah, I mean, of course, referring to, you know, the public perception of what's happening
00:50:08.260
But I also want to say what would Charlie want us to do to share the arrows is to go do the
00:50:13.780
Obviously, I'm not always going to pitch that we got to be out chasing ballots, but I wouldn't
00:50:16.980
be doing my job if I didn't get out there, you know, get involved, find a way to advance
00:50:22.020
our cause when it comes to the political scene, when it comes to the ideology of trying to
00:50:39.580
Turning Point has to thrive in terms of not just campus, but all the Turning Point
00:50:43.760
Action, all the efforts, the things that we're doing, that's what this is all about.
00:50:48.320
And when I think about what Charlie would be telling me right now, it would be, yes, honor
00:50:55.320
But at the end of the day, we cannot get distracted.
00:50:58.800
And what I mean by that is not that we're going to not give him the homage that he deserves,
00:51:05.500
And so for all of you out there that have done certain things, whether it was 2024 or
00:51:12.780
And that's a huge opportunity for us to get involved and to truly make a difference when
00:51:18.000
it comes to figuring out ways to do the work as Charlie would want us to do.
00:51:24.300
Like, in the end, a lot of the nastiest stuff that's said, it's said because it wants to
00:51:32.000
It's people on the left who promoted, oh, actually a MAGA guy did this.
00:51:36.320
They say that for ideologically motivated reasons.
00:51:40.640
They want to, ultimately, for whatever thing is going through their head, they want to tear
00:51:45.920
down the things that Charlie fought for, the things that Charlie died for.
00:51:51.860
And so along with what I suggested, Cliff is absolutely right.
00:51:56.680
If you're in Indiana, we've been talking about that.
00:51:59.220
They just had that vote on their redistricting map, and it failed.
00:52:05.500
And so we've been saying Turning Point Action will be taking action on that.
00:52:09.100
If you're in that state, that is an easy way to get involved with something right now
00:52:13.980
But I know other people are saying they want to find out other facts.
00:52:20.120
I was just looking at their videos the other day.
00:52:22.140
They have great videos just talking about the details of the case, how we can know what
00:52:26.980
happened or why some things people are saying about the bullet, for example.
00:52:31.140
There's been a lot of claims, oh, this bullet could not possibly have been what killed Charlie.
00:52:35.840
And there's some great Paramount Tacticals one.
00:52:37.980
There's other gun experts who've dived into that.
00:52:40.500
And believe me, you'll hear more from us on that in just a matter of a few days.
00:52:45.820
But we have, I think, one more message here, and then we'll close it out because we have
00:52:59.320
Be blessed in the Lord, Brother Blake and crew.
00:53:04.440
Thank you to everyone who tuned in for this, and we'll see you next week.
00:53:10.900
AmFest, I believe we're doing ThoughtCrime on stage at AmFest next week.
00:53:15.060
We encourage you to tune into that and tune in to every other part of AmFest.
00:53:19.480
Until then, and until always, keep committing thought crime.