Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 39 — Tucker vs. Israel？ Abortion and 2024？ Who Broke Marriage？

00:00:00.000 from the age of big brother if they want to get you they'll get you dnsa specifically

00:00:10.340 targets the communications of everyone they're collecting your communications

00:00:15.000 okay it is thought crime time everybody in the studio we only have one person producer andrew

00:00:27.740 hey only only me well just only one person remote is blake blake uh you're blocking the eclipse

00:00:35.740 yes my the eclipse is over it was great i know you just think it was a bunch of clouds it was

00:00:42.420 like a dark object it went dark for a bit it gets dark every night but it was actually pretty fun

00:00:47.980 i have to say it was a quasi-spiritual experience some people say jack did what'd you do for the

00:00:53.120 eclipse i um i made sure to look directly at it for as long as possible to gain the supernatural

00:01:01.600 powers for the 2024 election now i didn't travel like blake did uh people don't realize this but

00:01:09.180 blake is actually part of a group of uh eclipse worshipers and uh they travel to every single

00:01:14.640 eclipse around the world it's a you know kind of a reddit thing that they do and um you know when

00:01:21.160 they're not when they're not in their prayer circles praying to dr fauci they go and pray to

00:01:25.480 the eclipses well speaking of supernatural powers we might need it uh after the latest supreme court

00:01:31.700 decision in arizona who wants to walk on arizona what's uh what's that uh something significant uh

00:01:38.920 who wants to walk us through it a blake or andrew andrew you want to take it you know i uh i think

00:01:43.680 you know we we we have a good rundown here and let me just make sure i i pull it up but yeah i mean

00:01:48.680 basically we have a okay so there was a 15-week law that was the law of the land in arizona

00:01:56.140 that was predicated on the fact that roe v wade was also the law of the land but then roe v wade gets

00:02:04.440 overturned by the supreme court which basically nullifies this 15-week ban that was in arizona

00:02:11.120 uh doug ducey's uh abortion law and what that did is it sent it back to a civil war era law when

00:02:18.600 arizona was still a territory and that law basically uh outlaws all abortion in the state of arizona 0.94

00:02:25.280 this obviously has massive political implications for a lot of reasons arizona was polling in such

00:02:31.820 a way that we were hearing rumors that biden and the democrats were not putting much hope in arizona at

00:02:37.580 all right is one of the key swing states you would have expected the opposite but their polling

00:02:41.700 and their internals and the work that turning point action is doing was all leading to a uh a

00:02:46.660 predicament for them where they were not investing in arizona as you might expect well i think all that

00:02:51.960 changed yesterday um one thing that i think is important to to understand so this is the this is the

00:02:59.020 logic of the left they think if abortion now becomes the issue that that will drive low propensity

00:03:06.040 democrat abortion loving people to the polls and therefore whatever deficit that joe biden was

00:03:12.760 experiencing is now going to be made up by these low prop pro they're going all in on it and they're

00:03:17.040 going all in on it right so what people need to understand is that there already was an abortion

00:03:22.000 uh uh the issue was going to be on the ballot via referendum in arizona so there was already going

00:03:29.680 to be an abortion uh issue on the on the ballot and the only other swing state where that's true

00:03:35.500 is nevada which actually is very interesting to me charlie with everything everything that we've

00:03:40.900 been talking about with nebraska and forcing joe biden to play in the sunbelt well nevada and arizona

00:03:47.960 have abortion on the on the ballot so it's been a very chaotic uh last 24 hours last 48 hours because

00:03:55.640 uh there there seems to be a predisposition by conservatives to basically toss the the life

00:04:03.260 issue out right so trump preempts this on monday right or is that on tuesday maybe it was on tuesday

00:04:08.660 i apologize it was monday monday day of the eclipse yeah so trump preempts it issues his his statement

00:04:13.720 throwing it back to the states and incredibly the next day this arizona supreme court ruling comes out

00:04:20.020 um and basically says that the law the land is still this civil war era law so everybody's confused

00:04:26.380 what it means charlie you've got some interesting ideas i think we need to get into uh and then and

00:04:31.000 then in the legislative session out of arizona all hell's breaking loose the the democrats are yelling

00:04:36.200 shame and there's blood on your hands inside of the uh legislation inside the house here in arizona i

00:04:43.040 mean it's it's it's a very wild scenario and a very live ball this is look the the democrats have

00:04:49.160 one maybe two attack vectors the only other attack vector they have is taking donald trump off the

00:04:53.440 ballot and that didn't happen and number two was roe v wade and abortion and our side is currently

00:04:59.240 very disorganized on this not unified and i mean i'll tell you i'm getting it from both sides right

00:05:05.100 now and i i've been i'm not me because actually people respect my opinions on this i i've gotten a

00:05:11.540 little bit of ridicule and condemnation but by both sides let me explain i have pastor group chats

00:05:16.920 of people that are incensed that the republican party is not saying the arizona ban is not the

00:05:22.100 best thing ever that's number one saying that cary lake and trump should come out and say this is the

00:05:27.800 best thing ever we should make it the law of the land then i have other people on the other side that

00:05:31.420 are patriots donors and activists alike that say we need to make this a non-issue or else we're going

00:05:35.880 to get obliterated in november and so you kind of have these two factions and they're all one sec

00:05:42.540 jack they're all calling each other's names they're all calling you know all pointing fingers

00:05:46.620 at one another and my position was love the ruling i want abortion to not be the law of the land

00:05:52.300 bad timing why it's not even a close fit to the will of the people and if you have something that

00:05:58.320 is not in the fit the will of the people it's not sustainable and it also creates massive political

00:06:03.840 backlash so that's my position as i said try to get something on the ballot that is a pro-life win

00:06:09.440 which would be a heartbeat bill and i think that we have the best most prudent reasonable solution

00:06:14.160 that's been proposed but i i am not afraid i don't care how much this gets clipped by the media 0.77

00:06:19.120 to state this is a problem it's a problem and acting as if it doesn't exist is is foolish jack

00:06:27.260 please sorry i had to get that all out no no and and we should of course bring up our positions but

00:06:33.680 before we get to that uh on this and and i'll even say you know i i said first and foremost

00:06:39.280 because this is such a problem uh right now that we should lead the show with this and we're not

00:06:44.540 even planning to talk about it this week but here's something that and i say this as a non-arizonian that

00:06:49.600 that is confusing to me that in the ruling from the state supreme court if i have this correct

00:06:55.080 so doug ducey passes this 15-week bill back in 2022 so even under dobbs or even under roe v wade i guess

00:07:04.700 it was at the time i think um it dobbs hadn't been finalized yet that hadn't been issued yet and so

00:07:10.840 wouldn't this 2022 law supersede the 1854 law and i guess the state supreme court if i if i have this

00:07:20.240 correct and you know correct me if i'm wrong but i was talking to you know someone who's one of those

00:07:24.220 law talking guys and said well essentially the 2022 bill doesn't include language that says that

00:07:30.460 supersedes it and essentially the state supreme court said look we essentially say that it's a

00:07:36.860 situation where both laws are now in effect at the same time because of the 2022 law not including that

00:07:42.880 language the court didn't want to interpret things into it that were not there and then basically

00:07:48.400 punts it back to the legislature and says look you guys pass this stuff you go fix it is is that the

00:07:54.500 situation because i still don't quite understand why the 2022 law doesn't itself just supersede the

00:08:00.720 original law blake you would have an answer on that i mean i literally have the law open right now and

00:08:07.660 i'm checking it but my guess frankly is this was the thing that you saw with pro-life activists in many

00:08:15.020 states which is obviously pro-life activists want to ban abortion but they also were aware for 50 years

00:08:22.500 that the supreme court has restricted their ability to do that and so there was always the pro-life push

00:08:28.920 of pass the most pro-life law that will survive a court challenge try to gradually undermine it by

00:08:34.880 getting the supreme court to allow further and further bans so what you would get in states i know when i was

00:08:41.600 growing up in south dakota they would have things like this is they would have laws that essentially are

00:08:47.480 this is the law because of the current supreme court situation if the supreme court's ruling were

00:08:53.500 to change completely if roe were to go away we would have a new law come into play sometimes they 0.85

00:08:58.660 would call these trigger laws as in so if they pull the trigger and get rid of roe a stricter law

00:09:03.600 comes into play and that's actually why several other states do have strict abortion laws going right 1.00

00:09:08.720 now and so i suspect that the way the arizona 15-week ban was constructed is pro-lifers didn't want to

00:09:18.160 repeal the stricter law they had if that suddenly became and i suspect that's what came into play here

00:09:26.440 that made this happen yeah so that what i what i don't appreciate is some of the conversations i've

00:09:34.000 had around this is punting andrew and you were you were you know some of these conversations people

00:09:39.380 say oh don't worry about it we'll just kind of figure it out i i think that's foolish i think

00:09:43.300 it's short-sighted and i think the democrats are salivating at the one lane they have to overachieve

00:09:50.900 a dismal record coming into november yeah if you act like this doesn't exist then you're essentially

00:09:56.180 creating a vacuum that democrats are going to fill so you've got it you've got to come out with

00:10:00.200 something that that at least offers an alternative and there's a couple reasons why charlie you you

00:10:06.900 know i think that the republicans can be guilty of taking the pro-life vote for granted and what you

00:10:12.200 want is you want something that will inspire the pro-life vote that will get the activists out and

00:10:17.960 get them on board i think i think to your recommendation of a heartbeat bill you know these

00:10:22.660 this is about the strictest laws that are getting passed it plays offense on the top plays offense and

00:10:27.140 actually i mean you know it what's ironic about the psychology of this is because if nothing gets

00:10:33.940 done yeah in theory you could get the 1864 law right but that's not going to happen like this if

00:10:40.600 you do if you do not have something else on the ballot guess what's going to happen you're going

00:10:44.600 to have unlimited late-term abortion because that's the referendum that's already on the ballot in 0.51

00:10:48.660 november right that's going to pass if you don't do anything you're going to have late-term abortions 1.00

00:10:53.140 so the heartbeat bill is about as aggressive as a precedent that we've seen set in the country

00:10:58.460 we've seen it in arizona uh texas has something similar blake uh jack you probably know the other

00:11:03.980 states but this is acts actually an opportunity to go on the offense to get excited about it get

00:11:09.640 inspired by it and actually you know sort of take some of the the wind out of the other side's sails

00:11:14.360 and here's the other thing and jack i'd specifically love your instincts on this but

00:11:19.000 the fact that trump came out the day before and preempted that is either really just good politics

00:11:26.780 or it just happened to be a stroke of luck whether they plan this or not uh knowing what i know about

00:11:32.200 uh politics i i tend to think it was probably lucky but you know does that give us an opportunity from a

00:11:40.340 messaging standpoint to sort of decouple top of ticket from down ballot issues for example can can

00:11:46.660 enough voters in the state of arizona separate the fact that trump is saying hey i want to give it to

00:11:53.040 the states let the will of the votes the voters uh prevail in the state but i'm still going to pull

00:11:58.480 the pull the lever for trump how many in a state like arizona do you see people voting for maybe a

00:12:05.120 pro-abortion stance but also pulling the trigger for trump 20 to 30 well to answer your question yeah i

00:12:10.900 think there's a percentage but let's also point out that it's so even with donald trump kind of

00:12:16.760 putting out his statement which is you know it is not as saying it should be at the states it should

00:12:22.240 be at the state level and saying that he doesn't want to get behind a federal ban then uh you know

00:12:26.700 people you've got people on the pro-life side saying this is this is essentially pro-choice you've

00:12:31.820 got other people saying no it's pro-life just not at the federal level um but i would also point out

00:12:36.800 that donald trump isn't the only candidate on the ballot because they're definitely going to be two

00:12:41.380 or potentially more than two candidates that are pro-choice so you've got joe biden who's pro-choice

00:12:47.760 then you're going to have rfk who is a who's polling at uh i'd have to pull up the latest arizona

00:12:53.660 poll to see but he's pulling a 12 13 percent in a lot of these swing states and then you're also

00:12:58.160 going to have jill stein you're going to have cornell west so there's also so it's it's not just a

00:13:01.920 possibility of trump pulling over some of that vote but also how much of that vote is going to

00:13:07.640 be split across these presidential candidates is something we're gonna have to look at yeah and

00:13:12.280 look i i was texting with some pastors about this and i can read a room really well and i've been

00:13:17.600 saying this i've been warning people about this if i go and speak and i talk about the reversal of

00:13:21.500 roe versus wade i get golf claps at churches if i say that we need to ban transgender care 0.89

00:13:27.520 enthusiastic you know response if i say that we need to deport illegals cheering but there is a 0.85

00:13:33.640 huge discomfort with rank-and-file christians with the ideal of banning abortion they just it's just

00:13:40.540 too radical for many christians or it's it's not i think yeah go ahead go ahead like i just think that's

00:13:45.980 a colossal failure on the part of of christian leaders of course it is like i think certainly

00:13:52.380 within the catholic church it's well known that there's a big split where you have some priests

00:13:56.840 who are very adamant on it and you have some who are terrified to ever talk about it and morally

00:14:03.080 i think that's completely unacceptable and i think it has to be regarded as unacceptable

00:14:06.660 in the in protestant churches as well if you know if a pastor is going to be brave enough to defy

00:14:14.240 a covid ban if they're going to be brave enough to oppose child mutilation why can't they be brave

00:14:19.300 enough to say yeah if you're a christian you have to regard abortion as extremely wrong and extremely

00:14:24.540 people and something that we need to get rid of that's just less than you have to say it all the

00:14:28.840 time because otherwise people don't hear it and it's less than five percent right it's less than

00:14:33.180 five percent of pastors that would be saying that well yeah and and i think you had a conversation

00:14:38.120 with matt walsh that was really really good on this and i encourage people to go back on the podcast

00:14:41.800 and listen to it but you know we are constantly hounded as conservatives to retreat on these issues

00:14:48.760 we don't have a choice right now we have to we have to we have to go on offense yeah no we have to

00:14:54.260 but here's the thing they told us they told us the same on immigration yeah they told us we had to give

00:14:59.860 amnesty to win the votes we had to go give amnesty trump proved everybody wrong now i understand that

00:15:05.420 abortion is a different issue than than immigration and you know the trans issue is different guns are

00:15:12.040 different but at the same time i do believe that that if the conservative movement loses its moral

00:15:18.960 clarity on the issue of abortion we will pay for it tenfold that being said this is why i like your

00:15:25.760 idea so much if we put together an alternative a heartbeat bill not only are you going to uh give

00:15:34.440 the base something to get excited about you still might lose in the polls and if you lose the polls then

00:15:39.100 we have an opportunity to say guess what we have more convincing to do more persuading to do we know

00:15:44.280 we have but hopefully hopefully that could if we're going to lose a little bit on abortion maybe we're

00:15:49.640 going to make it up a little bit by just offering an alternative and to jack's point i think looking at

00:15:53.940 the polls jack rfk is polling at an average of 10.4 percent in arizona right now the numbers are

00:16:00.680 according to the hill uh election hq 42.5 percent average for trump 36.6 percent average for biden and 10.4

00:16:08.760 average for rfk and i completely believe that with our ballot chase in arizona which we're we're we're

00:16:17.280 we're trying to get like hundreds of thousands of votes in this ballot chase we're hiring like crazy

00:16:22.440 right now so this is a big operation if you couple that with rfk you offer an alternative you give

00:16:28.900 something people to get cited excited about this i mean there is do not press panic yet there is an

00:16:35.540 urgency but we can win arizona there needs to be and i don't think the legislature's into this what

00:16:39.560 i think the arizona legislature is likely to do based on just public reporting is i bet they're

00:16:44.260 likely to capitulate and put something on katie hobb's desk as some sort of bargain like a 26 week 1.00

00:16:49.700 limit that would be a mistake or a 15 week limit to reinstitute what do see had do see and only have

00:16:56.180 the term go status quo yeah what about what about just a compromise to say they're gonna and and

00:17:02.800 again i'm going to come back to this because the heartbeat bill that's a ton of work and a lot of

00:17:06.780 time that we frankly don't don't have i'm not against it but i'm saying that is that what about

00:17:11.400 the compromise to just say we're we're gonna we want the 2022 law to go in because that's the one

00:17:16.480 we all voted for at the time well yeah the 2022 law will the democrats will probably block that though

00:17:22.220 that's the point is that some of the republicans are not gonna the the this is what and i would

00:17:27.420 love to see polling i blake america's actually becoming more pro-abortion and this is not a big

00:17:34.160 surprise this is something i think if there's a big failure of the pro-life movement i think it was

00:17:38.680 failing to anticipate this but it's understandable because it happens a lot it happens so often in

00:17:44.320 fact that this is something that like political scholars wrote about in the past they called it the

00:17:49.820 hollow hope which is generally people like activist groups see a supreme court win as this uh

00:17:57.320 culmination that will like burst you know once they get their win at the supreme court they'll get

00:18:01.600 everything else they want to but controversial supreme court rulings usually create backlash if you

00:18:07.060 want past examples when you got like those pro-crime rulings from the supreme court in the 60s miranda

00:18:13.660 versus arizona the backlash was we got tough on crime laws that massively increase criminal penalties

00:18:20.340 you know how long people went to jail and so what you see after dobbs is you know it's not a total

00:18:26.880 wipeout but you're seeing maybe like a 10 shift in terms of who identifies as pro-choice who wants

00:18:34.760 abortion to be legal in all or almost all circumstances you basically i'd say you'd see like a 10 to 15

00:18:41.720 percent of people who in the past were signaling they were somewhat pro-life as like a tribal affiliation

00:18:48.020 and then now that it's a live political issue they're going actually just kidding just kidding please

00:18:53.780 don't change things if i get my girlfriend pregnant i want to make it go away and that just seems to be 1.00

00:19:00.940 the situation as it is right now but i do agree i don't i certainly as someone who like you guys cares a lot

00:19:08.220 about the pro-life movement there's several things in play first of all it's a very powerful moral

00:19:14.500 issue and it's one that is kind of abstract you know the unborn are kind of difficult to see for

00:19:21.920 the most part uh it does require a certain sort of abstract moral reasoning and as a result it's

00:19:27.480 very dependent on people getting really really fired up about it and so it's a difficult thing to

00:19:32.360 handle because the only way we're ever going to get wins on it is to really whip people up to care

00:19:39.360 a lot about it and the inevitable side effect of that is we're going to have people who care a lot

00:19:45.680 about it who are absolutists on the issue who reject all compromise on the issue and if you want

00:19:51.640 a good comparison look at the abolitionist movement in the 1800s you would have you know people

00:19:57.380 abolitionists would attack abraham lincoln because he was not a true enough believer on abolition uh

00:20:03.460 william garrison the founder of the liberator he would say we need to throw out the constitution

00:20:08.120 we should the north should secede from the union because the union has legal slavery you'd have you 0.97

00:20:14.060 know you'd have john brown who would try to you know kill people and start slave uprisings you would 0.69

00:20:19.020 have radicals on the far end of the issue because that's how passionate it made people and

00:20:27.080 it is going to be like i don't want to i think the big hazard right now is there are fast forces

00:20:34.720 within the republican party that want the pro-life issue to go away they've never cared about it

00:20:40.160 they find these holy rollers annoying they think they're the ones holding the party back from 1.00

00:20:46.040 getting everything they want on taxes or whatever and they want to get rid of them and they think they

00:20:50.520 can and this has happened in other countries so as someone who cares a lot about that issue

00:20:55.020 i do think we have to be aware that the big hazard right now is we lose this election they blame it

00:21:01.400 all on the pro-lifers and we never ever get a pro-life bill introduced at the federal level or in any

00:21:07.820 well hold on you know non-super-red state again but blake the first part is actually a bigger hazard

00:21:12.700 which is the loss right and we still have time to make sure we don't lose on the political issue

00:21:19.180 so blake in your in your wisdom politically what can be done if anything to make sure we're not

00:21:25.920 catastrophically you know obliterated on this issue and somehow 2024 becomes a referendum again on

00:21:33.560 abortion as the country is collapsing blake what what what do you think we could do i think i think

00:21:39.400 president trump's statement on monday was a very good start where he manages to say

00:21:44.160 i am pro-life i like the ruling that we did with dobbs but all at the same time i am not going to

00:21:53.900 come in and impose a law that is massively opposed by a large majority of americans that's essentially

00:22:00.380 what he's saying when he says i'm leaving it to the states he's saying i am not going to come in

00:22:05.160 and impose something only 30 or 20 or 15 of the public will back and i think at the federal level

00:22:15.860 you just have to say that anytime they bring up abortion you say you know an abortion ban is not

00:22:21.060 on the ballot for president because president trump says it's not on the ballot and so the only thing you

00:22:26.420 can do is then if you want to have you know the moral counter-attack you say the only person who's

00:22:31.380 making abortion a huge federal issue is joe biden and he wants it legal until birth with taxpayer

00:22:37.220 funding all of that like the most extreme possible one the other way and he wants to get rid of all

00:22:43.540 choice on the issue and i think that's how you can counter-attack to it you say there is no abortion ban

00:22:48.940 on the ballot for president uh at the state level i think that's a tougher one because it goes by

00:22:58.420 by state the arizona situation is going to be complicated like you charlie i i like the law

00:23:03.760 uh i don't know that i don't really know whether you know introducing some other vote as an alternative

00:23:12.420 is the best strategy because you're really just you're tripling down on oh there's all this abortion 0.89

00:23:18.220 stuff on the ballot and then there's going to be reporting comparing you know the law with this

00:23:23.520 middle thing but what the pro-abortionists want and it's already going to be on the ballot well i

00:23:28.760 was gonna say it's already on the ballot and this ruling just made it 10 times bigger it made it 10

00:23:34.020 times so now every single young woman in arizona will 100 vote democrat out of fear because they're 1.00

00:23:40.600 told to because there's an 1864 law that's going to put your best friend it's easy to blame young

00:23:47.080 women but truthfully i feel what really drives the problem is there's a lot of okay conservative

00:23:54.260 leaning middle-aged women you know people who live in the suburbs women in general those women who go 0.99

00:23:59.860 to well i don't even think it's actually it's not overall in the polling on the issue the split

00:24:04.880 between men and women is not dramatic but it's probably if you're looking for women who would

00:24:09.740 vote republican and then have decided to switch their votes just this election over abortion i would say

00:24:16.900 the person you're looking for is like a upper middle class suburban woman so let me just kind 0.82

00:24:23.360 of swing voters in general it's very simple that the abortion referendum as it is right now in arizona

00:24:27.860 will pass and will probably pass by 10 points therefore if you want donald trump to become president

00:24:32.640 you need people that want to vote for no restrictions on abortion to also vote for trump period period there

00:24:39.860 is no other path yeah the abortion referendum will pass based on polling they have so much

00:24:46.840 money they have paid circulators and this supreme court decision will make it like way more likely

00:24:51.700 to pass um yeah like way more like they're thrilled and so the question is yes so so so let me ask you

00:24:58.880 that question right you know you you're you guys are arizona um i'm from the other part of the country

00:25:04.600 so are there people enough people like who blake is describing who might be for this initiative

00:25:13.220 but also decide that they i mean i mean think about it right you you say you this is the ballot

00:25:19.600 initiative you can i'm for the ballot initiative because of x y and z but on issues like the economy

00:25:25.640 immigration inflation which is crazy right now i think president trump should be president so

00:25:31.000 basically i guess what i'm saying is are president trump's statements this week and his big statements

00:25:35.700 earlier this week enough to separate himself from that issue we don't know but that's where

00:25:41.580 that's going to be the question joe biden's going to try to run as well as the ballot referendum

00:25:46.020 yeah that's the point just to you know point out there are states where we lost votes related to

00:25:54.320 abortion where we still won other offices in the 2022 and that's even at this direct state state level

00:26:01.160 so i think if you just insist on you know trump's statement you just repeat trump's statement every time

00:26:08.060 it comes up at the federal level you say this is what trump said there is not like the arizona

00:26:12.880 referendum whatever way you feel about it will have no difference on what the president does after

00:26:20.120 this election and i think if you're very adamant on that point you have the added advantage that you

00:26:25.520 can still call out the really radical stuff that democrats want because again democrats want federal

00:26:32.280 funding for all of this they want to make it illegal for doctors to like not perform abortions or not be

00:26:38.340 you know not have to learn how to do abortions they want all of this insane deranged stuff and it is good 1.00

00:26:44.440 to have the impulse to hit back on that uh but i do think the most straightforward way is every election

00:26:51.660 that has the presidency on it heavily revolves around that presidential vote and so if you're able to say

00:26:56.860 the presidential vote is not a referendum on abortion say it over and over again the presidential vote is

00:27:02.040 not a referendum on abortion because president trump is not going to do this thing then you

00:27:06.920 actually even spread that out to other offices because how people vote on president is by far the

00:27:11.480 most important yes term of how they vote on every and there is a lot of evidence and data to show

00:27:16.280 that in states like arizona people will split their tickets and they will have nuanced voting patterns

00:27:21.360 down the ballot right well yeah and i and i agree that to the extent that his messaging that

00:27:26.780 were able to decouple this from a referendum on abortion state by state by state including arizona

00:27:32.480 so that people split tickets a good indicator of just how politically savvy even if the pro-life

00:27:39.420 groups were grumbling of how savvy his messaging was on this on on eclipse day on rapture day was that

00:27:47.240 they were really quiet about it the biggest critique of trump's statement on abortion was he's lying

00:27:54.120 we don't believe him right that was the biggest critique he's lying so they knew that he did not

00:28:00.560 the best part is that won't work like a big part one of the best advantages we have is not just

00:28:06.640 that they want to run against abortion but that democrats want to say trump is a theocrat a christian

00:28:13.580 nationalist thing and our best advantage is nobody is going to believe that because charlie the idea

00:28:20.600 that donald trump is a theocrat is absurd charlie are we going to lose any of the pro-life votes we

00:28:26.800 could but i mean the question is how big a number and are they really going to go what are they going

00:28:32.060 to do vote for kennedy go third party i mean that's what's so insane about all i'll read you a text

00:28:37.360 from a pastor and it's just the way it is i think they'll calm down but he says um in good faith i

00:28:42.800 cannot get me or my congress this is a battleground state pastor me i can good faith i can i will not or

00:28:47.080 might get my congregation to vote for trump as long as he continues to say that uh arizona and

00:28:52.400 these other states need to change their abortion laws full ban on abortion zero compromise end of

00:28:57.120 story yeah you know it's almost yeah go ahead jack i was gonna say what's what's interesting about

00:29:04.340 this and and blake you hit on the same thing i was thinking about was that this really is and this

00:29:09.900 what this law does is it provides a kind of the the original law so the pre-civil war law that just

00:29:16.640 kicked in in arizona if this is like the joy reed version of what she says the republican party today 0.99

00:29:22.480 represents and what the conservative movement today represents this is the christian nationalism thing

00:29:28.440 right because if you watch joy reed she claims as though and and this is something it's amazing that

00:29:32.800 the left always does this and it goes back to like their version of marxism is that you know they

00:29:37.460 always claim that the the right is totally in power that you know it isn't that the left has been

00:29:42.140 in power since the 1960s no no no it's the right is in power and they're going to impose the uh what's

00:29:47.660 that show the handmaiden's tale is going to be imposed if we don't fight harder and that it's it's

00:29:52.920 just behind every corner it's right around every tree and normally it's just kind of silly because

00:29:57.720 it never gains any traction because anyone in the real world can see that you know trump is just isn't

00:30:02.460 like that he's not a theocrat but what this law does is it gives them something to point at

00:30:09.080 tangibly in the real world that actually feeds into their conspiracy theory about the christian

00:30:17.280 theocracy that is waiting in the wings to take over the country that's exactly why they love this

00:30:23.260 thing so much and why they're satiating over it okay let's get to one of our partners here

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00:31:45.120 topic guys next topic is uh so this is a video that's been seen uh last i checked about 13 million

00:31:53.040 times it's uh tucker carlson responding he's uh has a new video out about the uh the war in gaza

00:32:00.760 where he interviews a lutheran pastor i guess they have those in palestine uh but he interviews a

00:32:09.220 lutheran pastor about the situation for christians in the holy land uh to get a sense of the tone

00:32:16.280 how about we play uh number 94 in october a greek orthodox church in the gaza strip was hit by an

00:32:22.860 airstrike we're showing the video now the church is in ruins at least 17 people were killed that day

00:32:28.360 again that was hardly the first time that fighting in that region killed christians you'll remember

00:32:32.760 the church of the nativity in bethlehem almost 20 years ago where a clergyman was killed in the

00:32:39.160 church with american weapons and christian clergy in our country said nothing and you may be asking

00:32:45.160 yourself well wait a second if christian leaders won't stand up for the lives of christians why

00:32:49.060 have them in the first place and that's probably a good question so you would think that in congress

00:32:54.380 there where there are many self-professed christians somebody might be piping up on behalf

00:32:58.860 of uh their brethren in the holy land but no just the opposite in fact for example at a town hall event

00:33:06.280 last month michigan congressman tim walberg a former evangelical pastor said he would like to see

00:33:12.380 the region treated like hiroshima was treated watch this we shouldn't be spending a dime on the

00:33:17.100 mediterranean hybrid it should be like nakasagi and irishima get over quick the same the same should

00:33:27.180 be in ukraine if you watch this whole video it's about 42 minutes long but the tone of the video from

00:33:34.140 tucker who's been you know probably the most popular voice on the right for you know the pundit voice on the

00:33:40.380 right for five years now five six seven years now is it's very very critical of the israeli government

00:33:48.360 and essentially very sympathetic to the palestinian side he asks a lot of questions where you know his

00:33:55.560 you can just tell by tucker's tenor and such that he's very critical of you know the way christian

00:34:02.140 lawmakers in the united states uh support israel and you know their approach to the entire thing

00:34:08.180 so it obviously plays into what we've been discussing over the last few months that

00:34:12.140 there is this very clear shift happening on the right on how on the unity of the right support of

00:34:18.520 israel and and how they feel about it in in general and i guess it stood out to me as uh

00:34:24.100 a little bit jarring it's hard to imagine that we got to this point compared to just you know

00:34:29.440 three four years ago with all the discussion of them moving the embassy to jerusalem and all of that

00:34:34.380 and we have more clips from the interview yeah do we let's play another clip i haven't watched the

00:34:40.460 whole thing yet okay uh let's do uh 90. how free are christians to practice christianity in israel

00:34:50.120 we cannot deny that there are many freedoms in in in the state of israel yes uh but it's not

00:34:58.560 uh as free as people think do you know that evangelicals as churches are not officially

00:35:04.900 recognized in israel not recognized by the government by the way by the government of israel

00:35:11.800 evangelism is illegal in israel and uh wait i'm sorry i'm asking you to stop there what does that

00:35:18.580 mean evangelism is illegal in israel it's it's against the law to evangelize in israel yeah i i don't

00:35:25.840 really know what he means by that i mean i've been to churches in israel feel like i've evangelized

00:35:30.460 in israel yeah it's a complicated thing so this is what it caused a lot of obviously uh that's a very

00:35:37.100 that's a very broad statement i it is a very broad statement so what did it you will sometimes see it

00:35:42.800 said uh by people of a certain persuasion they will say christian missionary activity in israel

00:35:48.880 is illegal and this is not true you are allowed to convert to christianity in israel you are allowed to

00:35:55.500 promote christianity in israel now what is also true is uh one israel obviously unlike us has control

00:36:03.940 of its borders and there is a history of them being like they don't like to let in people that they

00:36:11.560 think are just going to be proselytizing in israel they find it annoying for people to do that and

00:36:18.120 a lot of you know a lot of activist groups in israel dislike it a few years ago there was a push

00:36:24.440 to uh ban christian missionary work in israel that law was retracted it got a lot of attention in the

00:36:31.180 united states so it didn't pass but that had that was introduced uh when he says that they're not

00:36:36.220 recognized i look into this and this is true in a technical sense israel sort of has denominations

00:36:42.520 that it officially recognizes uh as churches this matters a lot because for example marriages in israel

00:36:49.880 are handled through religious bodies they don't have civil marriage in israel so they recognize 10

00:36:56.700 christian churches in israel like catholic church greek orthodox armenian orthodox armenian catholic

00:37:02.760 a few others and they don't have an evangelical church that they recognize like that said there are

00:37:10.400 you are allowed to be an evangelical in israel and you are allowed to practice it in whatever manner

00:37:17.700 you wish but there he is it is true that it is not recognized the same way that other faith groups

00:37:24.080 are in israel and that's kind of what stands out in this interview is there's a mix of stuff that is

00:37:29.800 true with stuff that is exaggerated and i think can be maliciously reframed and often is by people who

00:37:37.540 dislike israel for a million other reasons yeah i mean but i i've been to evangelical churches yeah me

00:37:43.700 too israel it's the jerusalem church jerusalem baptist church uh not to mention you know the

00:37:48.540 church of the holy sepulcher so well and let's let's be honest israel knows who their allies are

00:37:52.740 in the states well well but let's just also what i don't like about that clip of i don't know that guy

00:37:58.080 that was saying if you're a 20 year old serious christian you've never been to israel watching that

00:38:02.460 clip you think israel is hostile to christians my personal experience is the opposite i got like they 0.98

00:38:08.140 embrace convoys and like well they know really well they know they know who their allies are in the

00:38:12.980 states they know that evangelicals are their number one what blake has said is also true though

00:38:17.020 is that there is a fear yeah that too much proselytizing well that there could be a major

00:38:22.180 come to jesus movement well they're jewish state they see themselves as a jewish state so they see

00:38:27.620 that as a threat and but you know torah observant bible believing jews old testament are some of the 0.69

00:38:33.480 easiest converts to christianity um and there is and i don't know you have to fact check me on this

00:38:39.820 but there is something called the forbidden verse which is isaiah 53 which is i don't know

00:38:45.400 if it's illegal but it's really not you're not supposed to share it very much which is like the

00:38:49.940 gateway yeah um to christianity because it is the most accurate what does it say it's uh you're by

00:38:55.000 his stress whoa whoa charlie come on you gotta you can't just leave us hanging man you were pierced by

00:39:00.140 your transgressions out of a root a root out of dry ground you came um it basically tells the entire

00:39:07.480 from incarnation to the passion to the ministry he grew up before the uh before him like a tender

00:39:13.500 shoot and like a root out of dry ground he had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him nothing in

00:39:18.840 his appearance that we should desire him he was despised and rejected by mankind a man of suffering

00:39:24.400 and familiar with pain like one whom people hide their faces he was despised and we held him in low

00:39:31.680 esteem surely he took up our pain and bore our sufferings yet we considered him punished by god

00:39:37.100 stricken by him and afflicted but he was pierced for our transgressions and he was crushed for our

00:39:42.200 iniquities the punishment that brought us peace was on him and by his wounds we are healed

00:39:47.120 and uh yeah let's go let's go let's go and it says there's a website called one israel.org

00:39:55.120 one for israel uh israel 53 the forbidden chapter in fact there's a youtube channel that i used to watch

00:40:01.060 of messianic jews that would walk around the streets of israel and approach jews and ask them

00:40:07.880 do you know about isaiah 53 and it's a very successful way to spread the gospel that you know

00:40:13.520 they they know this for sure no of course and so what what what blake is saying is true but it's also

00:40:18.220 this this guy that went on tucker's show it's a complete misrepresentation of the reality of israel

00:40:23.700 jack well well i'll just throw out two one one is a is a point and then a question for charlie um you

00:40:30.440 know and just in case there's anyone listening to us that that isn't aware of this um which i always

00:40:35.880 try to think of like the guy in the back who has no idea what about the subject material isaiah is not

00:40:40.620 part of what you would consider the christian bible isaiah is part of the old testament what christians

00:40:47.180 consider the new testament or the old testament it's all the christian bible but yeah i know you're

00:40:51.620 right old testament versus new testament but it's part of what jews would consider the christian

00:40:56.780 bible correct yeah correct is what i'm saying so but charlie this is what i wanted to ask you though

00:41:00.780 when you say you know torah believing jews are the most uh are some of the are most most likely 1.00

00:41:07.220 why is that right well it's why is that well it's because jesus is a fulfillment of all the old

00:41:12.880 testament prophecy and they're waiting for the messiah and many bible believing torah observant

00:41:18.280 tanakh understanding jews don't have actually have never read the new testament scriptures

00:41:22.700 and when they do i've i've actually been able the holy spirit led him to jesus but i've seen a jew

00:41:29.700 become a messianic christian i don't know if you ever have andrew it's an amazing thing i know i know

00:41:34.600 uh and when a bunch of messianic when they when they tell you the story when they first read

00:41:39.180 matthew or john which are the two best gospels right they start crying well i can't say best i know best

00:41:45.880 gospels for jews oh i see i see i was like i like them all but matthew is the jewish gospel

00:41:50.580 100 you're 100 right mark is not that um but guys this this whole this whole 53 it just keeps

00:41:57.600 going like pretty good like look at all of look at all these prophecies that it tucked it touched

00:42:02.580 he you know uh he was oppressed and afflicted yet he did not open his mouth like that's a prophecy

00:42:09.240 right there this was written like 1500 years before jesus yeah he was led by the lamb before the

00:42:14.420 slaughter um you know yet who of his generation protested um oh he was assigned a grave with the

00:42:22.860 wicked and with the rich in his death right uh was it nicodemus yeah i mean like there's so much

00:42:29.700 stuff here um and yet it was the lord's will to crush him and cause him to suffer and though the

00:42:35.440 lord makes his life an offering for sin uh there you go offering for sin exactly so isaiah 53 is like

00:42:42.420 the nuclear bomb chapter uh-huh yeah there's wounds we are healed is is literally i mean i don't know if

00:42:50.660 you could find any phrase that better sums up christianity the the actual uh miracle of the

00:42:57.040 resurrection the miracle of the atonement the miracle of calc all of it right that sentence right

00:43:01.840 there and it's found in isaiah people need to understand that so if i if i would have had this

00:43:06.620 guy on my show i would have asked him whatever his name is i would have said hey like you why

00:43:12.880 didn't you mention that bethlehem is largely controlled by the palestinian authority so this

00:43:18.720 was this was brought up a lot and i don't think it's the own a lot of people did because at least

00:43:24.780 in the interview with tucker he's not saying like oh we face a lot of oppression in our day-to-day

00:43:30.420 religious life in bethlehem with the implication that israel's behind that what he does talk about

00:43:36.300 is uh he talks about the difficulty in going to christian holy sites because obviously israel

00:43:43.260 again they control their borders so they control you know they have the barrier with west bank

00:43:47.640 there's not a lot of free movement across that barrier you need an individual permit to do it

00:43:53.220 uh so there's a lot of complaints about that that they can't go to east jerusalem easily because

00:43:57.920 israel's uh basically annexed that part of it um so he talks about stuff like that he talks about the

00:44:04.280 impact of the war he talks about yeah financial support for israel by christian churches and you

00:44:10.620 know the comparative in his view like lack of support for christian sites uh tucker actually

00:44:16.260 complains i don't think we have that as a clip but tucker complains in the interview about seeing i think

00:44:21.680 the church of the holy sepulcher and how shabby it is that he thinks a lot of the churches christian

00:44:26.660 churches in israel kind of look like dumps and that you know he's upset that christians don't seem

00:44:32.320 to fret about that in comparison to other things that they financially holy sepulcher is from the

00:44:38.500 300 a.d it's about a thousand years old but there's also it's 1700 years old but there's the current

00:44:46.880 building is about it and has nothing to do necessarily direct because of the government it's

00:44:52.920 actually because it's and i know this constant it used to be the temple of venus and he and so

00:44:58.380 the current building is about a thousand there's been a church there it's quite old but the issue

00:45:02.700 there the issue there is it's because it's joint it's basically joint controlled by a variety of

00:45:09.300 churches so the orthodox the roman catholics um it's and so so it shifts it shifts who's in control

00:45:15.280 of a certain time so basically and this is an issue with a number of the holy sites where yes it's under

00:45:20.960 um the israeli government but it's actually has more to do with an issue between the churches

00:45:26.620 people arguing over how it should be uh you know done who should pay for it all sorts of different

00:45:34.300 things you know not to mention the the various arguments between uh you know the catholics and

00:45:38.940 orthodox believe me you want you know you want to get into that but so it it really is a management

00:45:43.880 issue because it's shared jointly between uh these these organizations that have so much differences of

00:45:49.920 opinion i specifically asked that question when i was there it's not like no i agree like i wish that

00:45:55.100 it was in in better upkeep for sure i certainly agree with that but i don't know that you can lay

00:46:00.480 the blame for that specifically on like just the israeli government there's a whole ton of issues there

00:46:06.200 let me just say just because go ahead just because we said his name and uh we have the name of the guy

00:46:12.360 that tucker interviews is month or isaac and so i just wanted to get that out there because we have

00:46:16.820 we've always said we don't know his name but his month or isaac he's an evangelical lutheran pastor

00:46:21.940 so i think he grew up orthodox there's not really a lot of lutherans native to palestine

00:46:28.320 yeah i would have said how's religious liberty in jordan for christians like not great okay it's

00:46:35.880 fine i bet jordan's better there's always there's always this element this is what gets voted about it

00:46:41.280 you know christians in egypt there are millions of christians in egypt and the coptics they're not 1.00

00:46:46.600 treated well a harder time and more danger than christians do in israel they do not treat they're 0.97

00:46:51.460 not true so i want to just say this i had a lot of people text me about this really upset about

00:46:56.300 this interview really fired up about it a lot of pro-israel you know folks and my response is the

00:47:00.820 same is look you know where i like israel i've had a great time there but you guys have to understand

00:47:06.100 you're losing the american people right andrew and like i i'm trying to tell but i'm not getting

00:47:11.720 through to people when i say that and the israel strategy is kind of like we're white knuckling we

00:47:16.340 don't care i guess and it's using a lot of like coercive force is i think the way it feels like right

00:47:23.220 like the adl up to its own tricks and but now they you know they they feel like the conservatives

00:47:29.020 and the liberal jews are kind of bound together after october 7th but yeah i i agree i mean there's no

00:47:34.900 there's no getting around the fact that as you go from older to younger the support for israel

00:47:40.860 wanes right um i personally watched some of these clips i did not watch the full thing didn't have

00:47:47.380 time but i've watched a number of the clips now just before the show and a lot of the issues i bring

00:47:53.060 up i actually have a lot of sympathy for israel's perspective right if i was not a christian and

00:47:58.080 there was all these christians that wanted to come visit my whole the holy sites that were in my

00:48:01.960 land and i was the one jewish nation on planet earth i i'd keep a live eye on if they were trying

00:48:07.860 to convert everybody now as a christian i think it's pretty great like i hope a bunch of jews

00:48:12.360 become christians i think that'd be great but i i certainly understand their position of being

00:48:15.420 watchful of it um even the this this lutheran evangelical lutheran pastor you have to assume

00:48:22.620 everybody on that side of the border wants you dead that's that's on them and so yeah if you could

00:48:28.780 just fake being a christian and then you get you get through like imagine how many uh christians

00:48:33.900 would all of a sudden uh appear out of thin air on the jordan side right in the west bank so so i have

00:48:39.240 a lot of sympathy for uh for israel even as i'm i'm hearing this but charlie you're totally right

00:48:44.920 in general this is a larger cultural movement and um it makes me sad to your point blake i think a lot

00:48:53.800 of people are using other grievances they have against israel and they're attaching it to some of this

00:48:57.620 stuff whether or not it's you you could have a really reasonable conversation and understand where

00:49:01.580 israel's coming from they're attaching other grievances they're reading into it um what they

00:49:06.360 already what they already think about israel and i think it's more endemic of of the drift that we've

00:49:11.120 seen even on on some conservative in some conservative circles jack really quick then i gotta talk about

00:49:15.360 coffee jack really quick yeah yeah no i'll just throw out there that you know this this has been

00:49:20.040 one of those things where i think i think so in the social media era people are getting more

00:49:26.060 information and direct information from battlefields and from places that you know a lot of a lot of times

00:49:32.800 in the past they thought had been kind of settled but then all of a sudden you'll get something like

00:49:37.220 you know a guy like a congressman former congressman justin amash right so he's palestinian but he's i

00:49:44.280 believe coptic uh his foe so his family's christian and his family as far as i know was associated with

00:49:51.220 one of these churches that was hit in a strike that was caught in the crossfire and one of these

00:49:56.840 things he had someone who's like in his extended family was killed in this and so the power of that

00:50:01.660 kind of thing going out on social media is 10 times more powerful than anything anyone has ever

00:50:07.640 considered before from this area because usually they just hear like oh you know israel good

00:50:12.000 palestinians bad and so i think the impact of that to what you guys are saying is something that

00:50:17.920 completely hasn't been addressed and there's so many blanket you know throwing out labels there

00:50:22.900 of oh you're anti-semitic if you criticize this oh you're anti-semitic if you bring this up and it's

00:50:27.460 like well wait you know people didn't even know that there were christians in gaza to begin with and

00:50:32.780 i think that's where the issue comes it's been so detrimental i will say a lot of the overreaction

00:50:37.940 like you know charlie you've been called anti-semitic in this which is which if you know charlie

00:50:43.800 i've been called everything for seven i've been working with charlie for i guess seven years now

00:50:47.800 i you are the most you send 150 kids to israel every year like i honor the shabbat yeah i read

00:50:54.440 the torah in hebrew you send out like all our campus uh campuses through turning point usa have

00:50:59.860 activism kids that are anyways the crazy thing is the fact that they would dare serious people

00:51:05.940 on the internet or at least formally considered serious people let me go even further there was

00:51:09.680 an article the washington times that said i must be displaced as ceo of turning point usa yeah i'm

00:51:14.740 not kidding i remember i'm a threat to jury around the world the damage that this this has done now i

00:51:23.820 i want to at least extend an olive branch that october 7th is extremely uh disruptive i've been

00:51:31.240 resolutely pro-israel despite the names they're calling me but some of the weird overreaction and

00:51:36.100 stuff that we've all observed if you're not jewish i i think we we have to you know try our best to

00:51:42.720 say listen what they went through was existential to them and so there are going to be reactions that

00:51:46.940 don't necessarily make logical sense they're only emotional so i'm trying to give room for that but

00:51:52.580 what the fact that somebody like charlie kirk could be called an anti-semite it it jack to your point

00:51:59.000 i'm just saying like this has been so detrimental to their ability to consolidate support in

00:52:06.160 traditional places where they've had it i've said this story publicly and and and andrew you've you

00:52:11.020 just kind of mentioned and um you know it was when you talk about you know sending kids to israel

00:52:18.300 um charlie came to me a couple years back and said hey we're doing this israel trip um you know do you

00:52:24.380 want to go and i said you know i'd love to but as a matter of fact charlie i would love if i could get

00:52:29.180 my family to come along charlie said don't even worry about it they'll all be taken care of and

00:52:33.980 sent my entire family to go and visit the holy land it was it was the trip of our lives my family

00:52:39.520 still talks about it and you know it was something where he didn't even ask for anything in in return

00:52:45.060 well thank you that touches me jack and that i mean to send people to holy land is one of the

00:52:50.220 greatest things i believe we can do i just want to read this quote uh in addition to that this guy

00:52:54.760 jeffrey shapiro writes mr kirk should resign or be removed as head of turning point usa or the right

00:53:02.100 will and should suffer the consequences of its inaction jeffrey scott shapiro is a former washington

00:53:08.100 prosecutor who served on the board of advisors and he literally was a former doj prosecutor and he's

00:53:13.780 like pseudo threatening me in this washington times piece remember the remember the reason for

00:53:19.020 them calling you an anti-semi charlie it's because you asked why the intelligence failed

00:53:24.160 in the first place you can't do that but like that's it that's it and this is i made an astute

00:53:29.200 observation we still don't have an answer to that no remember they ended up firing somebody

00:53:33.100 two weeks we have like tons of articles that show that they did have like a name for the potential

00:53:38.700 breaking of the wall they didn't take it seriously we're not we're not ascribing new york times

00:53:42.780 there was an analyst there was an analyst we're not ascribing motivations or intentions we're

00:53:47.320 analyzing a fact pattern that doesn't click yeah yeah if you're upset at the u.s government for

00:53:54.120 letting 9-11 happen does that make you anti-american do you know who's you know who said he loved what

00:53:59.040 i said dennis prager he said you he said charlie you were spot on with what you said yeah well loved

00:54:04.380 i think my best line the best line from this washington times piece i just found it some might

00:54:09.980 say mr kirk's comments demonstrate ignorance but he may just lack a conscience or 0.70

00:54:15.980 yes it's so ridiculous like in retrospect but i when when pro-israel people say why are we losing 0.91

00:54:25.540 the debate i'm like because jeffrey scott shapiro went out and attacked i mean correct me if i'm wrong

00:54:32.380 jack out of all the major conservative christian social media influencers i think i'm one of the

00:54:38.060 largest pro-israel voices out there that's non-jewish yeah let's here's another ben dominich 0.83

00:54:42.980 tweeted if charlie kirk remains the head of tp usa the right has an anti-semite problem that will 1.00

00:54:51.600 follow them into the coming elections what a dumb person what a an absolute idiot he's either paid 1.00

00:55:01.300 or he's mentally like unfit to drive a automobile like that's how like insanely dumb that person who 1.00

00:55:09.760 you just mentioned is like i i am so viscerally annoyed by that person all right oh so we have 0.93

00:55:16.280 two options here we could approach this we have the um only fans influencer going christian or we have

00:55:23.260 who's responsible for breaking marriage in response to your discussion i kind of asked me

00:55:27.680 all righty all righty so i'll set the stage on this last week you charlie kirk the anti-semite

00:55:35.740 who's going to destroy us all in the elections had some comments on marriage women contacting you 1.00

00:55:42.240 wanting to find husbands and you say you know like uh you might have waited too long yeah can we

00:55:50.140 clarify something one of the things that bothered me about this story was charlie's the direct quote

00:55:55.260 and sorry if you at the audience maybe you need to be caught up jack fill in the gaps where i missed

00:55:59.880 this you're good at that but charlie was talking at a church and he asked about this and he said

00:56:05.580 the direct quote was if you wait to get married until you're in your 30s if to the females you are

00:56:12.840 quote less attractive in the dating pool you did not say they were less attractive there's many many

00:56:19.240 women in their 30s that are absolutely beautiful okay that's not what you were saying you're saying

00:56:23.500 there there is a smaller pool there's less options there it they're they're also for men that want to

00:56:31.500 have kids you know that kind of thing i mean i'm not saying it was the most delicate framing of the

00:56:37.120 that sentence but just just to be you know very precise about that you were not calling people ugly

00:56:43.020 okay no i wasn't no i was saying that again what you said it fine so i don't need to yeah go ahead

00:56:47.380 all right go ahead blake i just had to yeah this of course i'm fired up still from the last thing

00:56:52.600 this started you know charlie's you know once a month instance of being like the number one

00:56:56.760 conversation driver in america and then this uh this provoked a response an article that i read and

00:57:03.060 then we had a bit of discussion uh before the show uh so there's a writer scott greer we've talked

00:57:08.860 about the greer head pledge before like should we not watch rap or get or listen to rap or get

00:57:13.960 tattoos or watch the nfl all of that uh but he had an article where he titled it stop blaming men

00:57:20.240 for the marriage crisis uh and i'm gonna read a quote from it which i think you guys can put on

00:57:25.120 screen he says charlie kirk upset a lot of women last week in a discussion on unmarried women

00:57:30.620 preferring democrats he said ladies in their 30s are this is greer's wording past their prime and 1.00

00:57:36.540 struggle to find a husband this is obviously true but impolite to say her statement naturally inspired

00:57:43.400 outrage among liberals as well as among conservatives that shouldn't surprise anyone

00:57:48.040 kirk's opinion runs counter to the prevailing conservative narrative about the decline of

00:57:53.540 marriage conservatives say that it's men's fault and we need to do more to shame males into stepping

00:57:59.880 up but this male focused answer isn't correct i won't read the whole article but what he gets into

00:58:05.780 is he argues he cites uh senator josh holly who we've talked to quite a bit where you know you have this

00:58:11.560 very male focused thing that men need to uh get better jobs stop doing you know stop playing video

00:58:18.340 games stop watching porn stop doing all these destructive things get improve and then marry women 0.99

00:58:24.840 have families and what he argues is the reason marriage is in decline is mostly women driven that 0.96

00:58:31.360 they are encouraged to focus on their careers to delay looking for a husband and then they're fed a

00:58:39.320 bunch of excuses afterwards that like you know it's the entire world that's wrong you didn't screw up

00:58:43.720 if you wait too long and you're in your 30s and you're not able to get married and so our debate

00:58:48.960 which we're going to have here is who broke marriage men or women it has to be all one or all the other

00:58:54.620 it can't be that both of them have some responsibility i mean think it's both i think what greer is

00:59:00.140 pinpointing what i was saying is that men get all the blame and you're not even allowed to mention

00:59:05.440 anything that women could do differently and i think that's totally fair is that are there decisions 0.97

00:59:10.560 and cultural norms and habits that women specifically women in their 20s are doing that

00:59:16.000 make marriage rates go down and you know make it less likely to for families to be well i think that

00:59:21.820 was evident in the reaction to that clip which you know it was was how was the reaction andrew i don't

00:59:28.880 it was basically i mean actually i will say plenty of people a ton of people i would actually say what

00:59:35.740 i was looking at more people uh were defending it but there was a couple of loud voices that were

00:59:40.780 getting upset about it plus there was the whole birth control piece of it which i think is like you

00:59:45.940 know it's like a sacred cow for for especially nothing i said was incorrect unfactual no i mean there's

00:59:51.580 and there's a ton of there's a ton of uh evidence behind that i think a lot of people just think that

00:59:56.360 women should be the one that are talking about and it's like well you know how do you expect us 1.00

01:00:01.000 a to know that that's the rule and b uh why can't we be supportive i have a platform i'm talking about 0.87

01:00:07.520 a topic anything where they say only men or only women can talk about it is like yes ridiculous

01:00:13.040 unless it's like a sensory phenomenon like what does it feel like to give birth okay men shouldn't

01:00:18.120 weigh in on i of course yeah that i agree any moral issue any societal issue like everyone so i i've

01:00:24.540 not really read too much of scott greer's stuff um i did read this before the before the show i i like

01:00:31.420 you know i first of all let me say i actually endorse senator holly like i think men respond well

01:00:38.740 to being called up um i think you have to call men up called out and called out called but but like

01:00:45.120 called higher right um and to to be better i know that the the biggest leaps and improvements i've made

01:00:50.880 in my life is when i encounter somebody that challenges me to do more to be better to be

01:00:55.840 stronger um and so i think that's just a part of the male uh experience but i do think it is weird

01:01:05.580 and he did call this out that that it's basically we've created a culture especially on the right

01:01:10.320 where it's okay to call men out we could belittle men all we want and and uh but you can't do that

01:01:15.080 with women and i think that part of that might just be because women receive criticism differently

01:01:21.240 they're emotionally there's a different process that they tend to go through but it's a fair critique

01:01:27.000 of the whole thing because what we're essentially doing if you look at pop culture and hollywood jack i

01:01:31.400 i know you will agree with me on this a lot of people pointed out that like fathers in hollywood

01:01:37.640 over the years have become dumber and like basically just shallow uh uh husks of the previous great

01:01:46.940 fathers from the 50s and 60s right now we have homer simpson right so what the conservative movement 0.89

01:01:51.680 essentially doing is we're just mimicking our uh the larger culture that we're trying to impact or at

01:01:57.100 least ostensibly trying to impact and we're just putting all the blame at the at the men and i think

01:02:02.840 that's ultimately why that clip you know created a conversation is because you broke that rule you

01:02:09.080 you you you put some of the blame at yes at women and and saying you should prioritize marriage more

01:02:16.020 than your career and don't take birth control if it's going to delay those really really important

01:02:21.120 life decisions and your future happiness go ahead sorry jack no no i actually so like i agree and

01:02:27.420 disagree with you right in and not that i disagree with anything that you say i just mean in terms of

01:02:32.460 yes it's true that women do need to uphold their fair share of this and they need to take their fair 0.94

01:02:40.600 share of lumps the same way that men have taken their fair share of lumps and how many shows have we

01:02:45.320 done talking about the decline of masculinity in america i think it's probably if you went through

01:02:50.320 like thought crime topics it's probably our our our number one or at least top five but those don't go

01:02:56.260 viral jack why don't they go viral yeah funny enough but the minute you but here's what i will say

01:03:01.700 though the other piece of this is that the reason and this kind of answers charlie's question the

01:03:06.300 reason that you got so much flack for those comments specifically charlie even though there are lots of

01:03:12.380 women who agree 100 with what you said is that what you're really seeing is a power play you're seeing

01:03:19.360 a power play whereby in these comments are valid if women make them if these are choices that women 1.00

01:03:27.340 make because women are the ones that are allowed to make decisions men are only allowed to affirm the 0.98

01:03:36.120 decisions of the women that have been made this is where that is society this is where people missed

01:03:41.160 even greater who i was talking to parents i was saying parents do not allow your daughters

01:03:47.820 to get on this so i'm not allowed to give advice to parents yeah i mean that's specifically christian

01:03:53.580 parents in which by the way or you know speaking as a catholic um not exactly a radical position to

01:04:00.060 take for you know not at all christians to be against birth control it's a pretty no pretty standard

01:04:04.800 topic and i would say that most people that are on birth control they don't know all the risks they

01:04:08.920 don't know all of the costs associated so yeah i mean it's it's on both but the the way the dating

01:04:14.440 conversation is presented especially when i talk to young women i say are you happy with the pool of

01:04:21.140 young men out there oh no they're terrible they're self-interested they have no ambition 1.00

01:04:25.660 i say are you guys doing everything perfectly they say well we have our act together and you know

01:04:29.720 we're not to blame for this there's an incredible amount of pride you know that young ladies have

01:04:34.140 well i'm surprised that they're that that's been your experience i have never asked that question

01:04:38.780 so i i'm going off of your your take i find that i mean that's a general it's just but i

01:04:43.500 where maybe i'm wrong there's a major manosphere self-improvement

01:04:49.580 oh man it's a whole industry is there a female sphere self-improvement industry about it i just 1.00

01:04:55.320 don't think it's as developed yet i don't think it's nascent it exists and some of it's really

01:04:59.940 weird like you can find sort of like you know there's like a subreddit kind of yeah there's a

01:05:05.600 subreddit called female dating strategy and it's extremely mentally ill if you read it so i would 0.87

01:05:11.040 i would not recommend checking it out and it has to mature strategy but it's an interesting

01:05:16.860 question you know like one thing the article i mentioned earlier highlights is another article

01:05:22.400 uh by brad wilcox and it's title from the institute for family studies and it's titled where have all

01:05:28.820 the good men gone and that's kind of that's often the framing that is popular if people want to blame

01:05:35.660 men for the decline in marriage that men are in decline good men are not available and

01:05:41.020 i there's some merit to this you know if you go to a college campus most of the students at most

01:05:49.620 campuses now are women most of the people who finish are going to be women the number of men the

01:05:55.320 number of people who are falling into like disastrous lives where they're not really fit to

01:06:00.740 marry anyone that's going to be more men than women they're the ones who live at home don't have 0.99

01:06:06.940 any job aren't an education or are doing nothing with their lives are just addicted to games or porn

01:06:12.980 or or nothing in particular and i do think that fixing that problem i lean towards it being a male

01:06:19.960 thing just in that i think women naturally do follow men and look towards men and so if men are a disaster

01:06:26.580 a lot of things flow out of that and if you are making men a higher quality group of people across the

01:06:32.980 board that will spread throughout society but i could be wrong in that i agree easily flip it the

01:06:40.320 other way if i believe i'm sorry sorry but go ahead if women were more you know if you had a social 1.00

01:06:46.280 change of women more concertedly encouraging like traditional morality don't sleep with men as often 1.00

01:06:53.440 and you know kind of shun people who do it too easily then that would also encourage marriage that

01:06:59.440 would encourage commitment what you very much have is you have the consequence of high individualism

01:07:04.940 and basically anarchy in terms of personal decision making and so no one has held to account for bad

01:07:11.820 behavior basically and that's going to encourage lots of bad behavior and i i agree with you i believe

01:07:19.000 that the most direct route from fixing this solution is to create higher quality men i do i actually do

01:07:24.920 because in in in some respects the whole debate that was sparked was a tacit tacit acknowledgement

01:07:32.380 that men hold it a an amount an immense immense amount of sway yeah so because it was all sort of

01:07:39.080 like why are the men hijacking this to conversate well okay well because it was an acknowledgement that

01:07:44.100 that power exists so i do believe that if men became become high quality become worth following

01:07:50.500 endeavor to be men worthy of leading uh a family and uh being uh in a marriage relationship obviously

01:07:58.960 that that women will will follow suit and then you know but i also do think as somebody who's married

01:08:04.620 to a woman that is a conservative woman and she celebrates my masculinity that's an important part

01:08:10.320 of this discussion women need to obviously need to give space for men to be men and it and i don't

01:08:17.040 think i don't think that uh exists in enough measure in our current culture i've won yeah go

01:08:23.280 ahead super quick super super quick point um men have to be able to say no men have to be able to be

01:08:29.540 in a relationship with a woman and say no uh whoever came up with that phrase happy wife happy life 0.93

01:08:34.520 is um an idiot and men need to stop believing that that is the only thing and the most masculine word 0.98

01:08:39.960 in the english language is the word no uh men being able to say no to women may be the one thing that 0.99

01:08:45.600 saves western society i mean happy wife happy it i i agree with you but it's totally it's totally

01:08:52.960 fine to like use that as a little bit of a thing it's okay jack are you saying it's really unhappy

01:09:00.300 wife happy wife unhappy wife happy life yeah that's that that would be the character i i don't think i can

01:09:10.040 agree with that as a married man here but because the reason no the reason is because people take that to

01:09:14.220 to mean do whatever your wife says at all times never push back never stand up for yourself always

01:09:19.160 be a pushover for whatever she wants to say yes to which is wrong and so on its face completely

01:09:24.780 sayings but this is the issue yeah that it makes men like oh whatever you want honey bear yeah i agree

01:09:30.540 with you on that i do i do all right everybody gotta run thanks so much email us freedom at charliekirk.com

01:09:35.660 talk to you soon

01:10:02.800 Thank you.

Human Events Daily with Jack Posobiec - April 13, 2024

THOUGHTCRIME Ep. 39 — Tucker vs. Israel？ Abortion and 2024？ Who Broke Marriage？

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