Alberta Independence Under Fire： Cory Morgan Responds to Lukaszuk
Episode Stats
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Summary
Corey Morgan, author of The Sovereignty's Handbook and host of The Corey Morgan Show joins me to talk about an article in the National Post written by Thomas Lukasik about the independence movement and what it means for the future of the country.
Transcript
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Hi, it's John, and welcome to the channel Monday, December the 8th. I hope you're having
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a great start to your Monday. And before you see the video with Corey Morgan, I need to
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explain something. Great interview. You're going to enjoy this. We talk about this article
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right here, and this is an article in the National Post. Thomas Lukasik went to visit
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Mark Carney, and he said some terrible things about people in the independence movement.
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We discuss that in this. We discuss moving forward with the independence movement, and
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we discuss how this could be a little bit threatening to people in the independence movement and
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is a little bit dangerous. Great interview. I hope you'll enjoy it. But you need to understand
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this. I use Zoom when I do my videos, and I've been trying to learn how to share something
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with the person I'm interviewing, and I wanted to share that article with Corey in this video,
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thinking that what I saw on the screen when I went back and forth from the article to
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Corey and I on the screen, that that is what was being recorded. But unfortunately, that's
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not what happened. All I got was the audio with Corey and about 17 minutes of the article
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I just showed you. So my bad here. But this is a great interview. I'm going to put Corey
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and I on the screen. I've had him on the channel before. You will see our faces, but our lips will
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not be moving. But this is well worth it. I needed to explain that to you. Again, my bad.
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My apologies to Corey that we're not seeing his face on here. But I hope you enjoy this interview
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with Corey Morgan right here on my channel. Thank you very much. Hi, it's John and welcome to the
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channel. Monday, December the 8th, 6.30 a.m. Hope you're having a great start to your work week,
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a great Monday morning here with the big blue mug of coffee. Of course, this morning, enjoying that
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very much. And as you can see, we've got a guest on the channel today. I'd like to welcome Corey
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Morgan from The Corey Morgan Show, The Western Standard and author of The Sovereignty's Handbook.
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Corey, it's always great to have you here on the channel. Great to be on, John. Thanks.
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And I wanted to welcome you to the channel as part of a very small group of angry white militant men
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who are armed through the teeth. Corey, I gave you a call last night. I hadn't spoken to you in a
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little while. I think the last time I spoke to you, you were in Israel, I believe.
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And I saw this article in the National Post last night that really kind of had me seething. And
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I thought of you immediately. And here's the article right here. I hope I can share this okay so
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everybody can see it. People are upset what Alberta's anti-separatist worries about. Forever
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Canada leader Thomas Lukasik worries about Albertans he describes as a very small group of angry militant
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men armed to their teeth. And I thought of you because I know in one of the times I've spoken
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to you about what might happen should we move closer to a referendum, what might be the reaction
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from the federal government? And this kind of scared me a little bit. What are your thoughts
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after reading this article and after talking to me last night?
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Yeah, and I looked more at it. And, you know, well, Lukasik is a character for those not familiar
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with them. I mean, he's a relic of the disgraced, you know, Redford government of the past.
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It claimed to fame was dumping a $20,000 phone bill on taxpayers after a trip to Poland.
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But he's tried to remake himself as Captain Canada out here and the face of the anti-independence
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movement, I guess. But yeah, his, his strange, you know, forever Canadian petition, I mean,
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credit where it's due, they got a lot of signatures. They, they did a lot of organizing,
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but it's kind of, he's, he's out of bullets. He doesn't know what to do now because the
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independence movement is still just moving right along. And he went straight to kind
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of like what we're talking about the predictable things. Oh, it's angry old white man. It's
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he took shots at saying it has what flavors of oil field and Mormons or something. It was just
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bizarre. And I mean, normally you could dismiss that. That's just a nutcase on X or something.
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But no, this is the National Post. A man is saying this, this is going across the country.
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And he's claiming that he's already been speaking to Mark Carney representing sort of Alberta,
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and that he's going to speak to him further. So what sort of image is the prime minister getting
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of Albertans when, when somebody like Thomas Lukasik is going over there purporting to know
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anything about what's going on with the independence movement. It's a, it's, it's predictable,
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annoying, but still concerning as well. We can't dismiss it.
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Yeah. It was written, the article written by Donna Kennedy-Glann. She discloses in the article
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that she knows Thomas. She was an MLA out here in Alberta, was she not?
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She was. She said she served in cabinet with Lukasik and the Redford government. I mean,
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Donna's actually one of the more rational red Tories typically.
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As far as that goes, I mean, I disagree with her on a lot of policy things, but for her to give
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air to this pile of work, as you can say out of Thomas is interesting. But again, the independence
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movement, well, it's a very, you know, you're on one side or the other and it can get pretty
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emotion. So perhaps she feels this is a good way to go. But I think tactically, if you're opposing
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independence, shooting at something where you're looking at at least a third of the province
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supporting and probably more who are very strongly considering it and calling them all angry old white
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men who are armed to the teeth, I don't think that's going to be a wise tactic to try and reduce the
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Well, he goes on to say here that this could go on to trigger national security risks. And
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that has a real ominous feel to me, Corey. In fact, I started thinking of this a little
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differently this morning. I was sitting here waiting to talk to you. And tell me if I'm wrong here.
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And maybe I'm going way out on a ledge. But when you call, this is a this is an emotional issue,
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you'd have to agree, right? When you're talking about a province leaving a country that could break
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up a country. And we talked earlier on this channel about the patriotism that's involved here. It's a
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very emotional subject we're talking about. Right?
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Oh, absolutely. And on both sides, you know, some people can become too active, I guess,
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there's always a risk of that in any activist group, whether it's for or against. But one of
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the ways that happens, if somebody starts inflaming things, you're talking about that dark side,
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if the federal government is taking the stuff that Lukasik is saying seriously, that's when,
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well, if you really believe that there's going to be dangerous civil unrest, that means the federal
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government might be considering coming in to suppress that civil unrest. And that's what actually
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causes civil unrest. So Thomas's stuff is getting dangerous now, even if that may not necessarily be
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the intent, I would hope not. But it's very irresponsible, actually, to start that kind of
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rhetoric, because there's never even been a glimmer of dangerous rhetoric or actions or anything of the
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independence movement. It's been a bunch of town hall meetings and rallies at the legislature. And to
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start labeling it as if we might have some sort of armed insurrection coming is, as I said, grossly
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irresponsible. And actually, that could be dangerous. Well, I'll put a picture up in post
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of October 25th of legislature. What a great group of people. And they weren't a group of angry white
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men. They were all people from all different walks of life here. But you went exactly where I was
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thinking this morning. I was thinking that maybe I won't go a little bit farther here, but you might
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be putting a target on the backs of the people who speak on behalf of the independence movement out
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here. Because you're saying these people are armed to the teeth. And that is an outright lie. And
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yeah, I think this could get a little bit dangerous in this situation. And it kind of frightened me when
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I was thinking about it this morning. Absolutely. And this movement has been nothing but pushing
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to at least take the democratic means to bring sovereignty, a full sovereignty, independence to
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Alberta. It's always been focused on a referendum, on bringing a peaceful vote to Albertans. Nothing more.
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Nobody's ever called for anything beyond that. And, you know, if you take away, because that's what
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some people are talking about. That's what we're talking about with the court ruling and then the
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changes that have happened to allow the referendum to go. If you take away the democratic ability
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for people to pursue independence, that could engage some people who really, I mean, there's always a
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fringe somewhere way off out there to do something stupid or foolish if they feel there's no other means,
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if they feel there's no other way to do it. That brings it about. To try and cap the bottle is not
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the way to deal with this. I mean, what Ottawa should be doing, if they really care, is actually
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asking us why we're so ticked off. Actually trying to find things to cool us down. But if you come out
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and start saying we're worried about an armed dissurrection in Alberta, boy, we could turn this into
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something a heck of a lot more ugly. I don't see that appetite, thankfully, among the Alberta
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independence movement. But Canada has seen some horrible things from independence movements
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historically in Quebec. Nothing like that ever since. And I never want to see anything like that
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again. But when you get a clown like Lukasik starting to stir those waters, it becomes dangerous
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and not on the part of independence supporters, but on what the government may do in response.
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Well, what's fascinating about this, he tweeted this out, I think just yesterday. I saw this after
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the article. And this is what he tweets out after he says that. And it gets on a national website in
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a national newspaper, separatists are not our enemies. They're fellow Canadians. Some are upset about a few
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legitimate issues. Some are manipulated. Some feel not heard. And we must find a way to communicate,
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not shout at each other. And then he says that they will triumph. I mean, talk about mixed messages
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here. I mean, for goodness sakes. Well, I imagine somebody got on a phone to him because that that's
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almost a rational approach to opposing the independence movement then, you know, sort of
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still a veiled shot, but not fully inflammatory and saying, you know, well, maybe we should have some
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discourse. But if it comes to a vote, we'll win. Okay, I can live with that. I don't agree with you,
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but I can live with it. And because that's such a different message from what you saw in the paper.
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Yeah, I got a feeling his inbox probably had a few messages from people saying, dude, what the heck
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are you doing? Yeah, well, you've said we need to be civil with Canada. I did a video a while ago,
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said I don't like Canada much anymore. And I said, you know, I was kind of, people are saying you
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shouldn't really say that. But if I like Canada, I want to stay. I want to leave. So I don't like
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Canada much more. I have friends there. I think it's a great country. You've said here, you know,
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and Edith will still be out in Toronto if we leave. And you'll still be able to visit. And
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we'll all still be friends. We'll have a different relationship. You've said this before. But you
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think we need to take a softer tone when it comes to this, don't you? Because we can leave peacefully
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because we're a peaceful group here in Canada, whether you're in Alberta or the rest of the
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country, right? Yeah, I mean, it's a big issue. It's going to get emotional. And then we got to speak
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firmly. And sometimes, you know, when I do a speech at a meeting, I never call for anything
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like violence or anything like that. But, you know, we get the room hyped up and say, let's
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rock and roll. Let's get going. But at the same time, there's no room for that sort of extremism
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or problems with the federation. It's with the system. It's with the agreement. It's not with
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the people. And again, I think most people realize that. That's why even though there's been an
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independence movement, you know, had its ups and downs in Alberta for decades, there's never been a
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glimmer of anything extreme coming out of it or dangerous. How do you feel about this? I said to
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Mitch Sylvester the other day, Mitch, we're actually moving on to probably the next part of this process
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where the province has never been before. Bill 14 may have changed everything, I think. I mean,
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you've spoken very, you said we need to soften things down just a video a few days ago when it
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came to Danielle Smith. She's made it easier to get signatures. She's now in the, just
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before a court case was determined the other day, kind of changed the rules midstream here.
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So we need to soften down the rhetoric and maybe be a little easier on Danielle Smith. Do you feel
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that way? Well, or at least just if you don't like her, fine. But my focus is on the independence.
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Direct your energy at that. Something else you'd mentioned, I had to look into it because I was
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busy on the weekend. It was in 14. Maybe you were looking to get there. But it's something talking
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about the language on who has the final authority on nominees running in an election. And it changes
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the wording directly to the leader versus some other words in there. And so people already got
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the pitchforks out. Oh boy, we got to get 22 constituency associations and overthrow the leader
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and throw her out. Guys, look, maybe you're not familiar with party politics, and that's fair enough.
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The leader has always been the final authority on candidates. This isn't new. This is just a change of
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phrasing. But we've got this prickly element within the independence movement that at the drop of a
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hat wants to go to war with the party in power. We only have so much energy. We only have so much
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time. We only have so much political capital. We might have a referendum this year. I don't want
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to see all that dedicated to going after a leader who's been the most independence friendly one we've
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had in 20 years. Focus on the referendum. You know, we've got way too much to do rather than
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constantly bickering at Smith. And if you try to replace her, you might replace her with somebody
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say you're never getting a referendum. And we're in a situation where, I mean, there's talk again
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of the rise of the NDP. God forbid we should get Nahed Nanshi and the NDP back. And we've got an
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election coming up in October of 2027, I believe. And that's not too far off. And if we destroy the
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party that is in power right now, we could end up in, well, we may never get, you know, move this
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province forward. And imagine the way this province would be if we had the NDP leading it right now
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and not Danielle Smith and the United Conservatives. Well, that's it. And if Premier Smith really didn't
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want the independence, really despised it that much, she's had a number of easy outs where she
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could just say it can't happen. The court ruling was one right there. She didn't have to have Bill 14.
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She could have thrown her hands up and said, look, we did what we could, but I'm afraid the courts have
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stopped us. We just have to move along. Instead, she changed the legislation to allow a referendum.
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Guys, you aren't going to find one more friendly than this. You know, she's not going to endorse
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a yes vote, but she's given us the mechanism. Quit turning your guns at the party and let's have
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these hundreds of meetings you need because this referendum is going to be tough.
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Okay. So I want to kind of, I will wrap it up here, but I have a couple of questions
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and I'll kind of tie them together. Do you think that, I mean, obviously this is a threat
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to the rest of Canada if Alberta leaves. I mean, we contribute a lot to Canada, a lot of money.
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Do you think that the federal government is actively working and planning right now some
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type of a campaign against the independence movement? And, and as somebody who wrote a book
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on this, the sovereignty's handbook, what do you think we should be doing right now in order to
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prepare for a possible referendum? Yeah. Oh, the government absolutely will put together a
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campaign opposing it. I mean, we saw this happen in the nineties as well with the Chrétien government
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and the Quebec referendum. Again, to be fair, it's kind of their role. If their goal is to maintain a
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federation, they should be, uh, you know, uh, campaigning against and saying, you know,
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why we should stay. And if Lukasik is going to be the head of that, then that's great. I think
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the referendum's in the bag, but, uh, it, we have to, and it's, it's, it's hard to do that mental
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balance, but we have to be positive yet. At the same time, we're talking about a negative. We're
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talking about leaving the federation, but we've, we've got to switch that to why we will be better.
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We already know why it's bad. We already know the problems with Ottawa. We already know the
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shortcomings of the federation, but we have to convince a lot of the Albertans who aren't sure
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they're on the fence. Why are you going to be better off a couple of years after an independence
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vote? You know, is your pension still going to be protected? Is the economy going to be better?
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Are your personal freedoms going to be improved? We have to really start pivoting to the positive.
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People don't always just want to vote on a negative. They want to know that there's a lighter
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picture at the other side of it, because we've been pretty negative and you have to be, you have
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to point out the problems before you work to the solution, but now we've got to start getting
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solution oriented. It's going to be interesting. Um, I was thinking about a possible signature
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campaign coming up maybe after the new year, who knows? And, um, we've got to get people out. It's
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going to be tough when it's minus 30 degrees. I have to start thinking about where we can hold
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the signature signings because you know, the forever Canadian folks, they had some pretty nice
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weather to do that through in the summertime and whatnot to get people out. So there's going to be a lot
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of planning and I know that, uh, the Alberta prosperity project is working on it and, uh,
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they're looking for volunteers and whatnot. And they've got a lot of people who've signed up already
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to sign the petition, but we have to get, get out there and do that. And, and do you think it's
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important that we get more signatures than the forever Canadian people? Uh, well, not necessarily
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more than the forever Canadian, but it would certainly look better. I mean, it's that's that kind
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of first race, uh, just because the, the APP is definitely better organized. They've been working at this
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for years. Theoretically they should pass that 177,000, you know, realistically 210,000 that they
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would need within a couple of months, I would think, but you've got four months to work on it.
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Run that campaign right to the end of the four months, get every signature you can, because
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that's the start of the referendum campaign. Anyways, that's going face to face with people
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that's going door to door. So, you know, it's like the oldest sports euphemisms and so on,
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you know, always go as if you're a few points behind, just push right to the end.
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And then that'll transition into the formal campaign. So, I mean, if they came in with
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500,000 signatures, brilliant. Corey, thank you so much. I want to meet you.
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Yeah. We can't seem to cross paths. I'm certain we will. I mean, we're running those same circles.
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We just can't seem to get in the same room at the same time.
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Yeah. You were in Israel when I was up in Edmonton that time, I thought I might meet you
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there, but you're in Israel. I know that was an important thing for you to do. Um, I, you know,
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what I really want people to do and I want, and I mean this sincerely is go over and subscribe
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to the Western standard for Christ's sakes. I'm a subscriber there. Go over and subscribe to the,
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to the Western standard, watch Corey show and buy your book. I mean, you wrote the book on this and
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it's always a pleasure having you on. There's great information in there and go over to your
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YouTube channel as well. Because if, if people, if you have questions or people are saying specific
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things to you against the independence movement, Corey, boy, does a great job of explaining those
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things like, you know, we're landlocked or, um, you know, the Aboriginal problem that everybody
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talks about and they've got vetoes and stuff like that. Go over to your channel, Corey. So,
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so nice to talk to you. I hope to meet up with you very soon.
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I appreciate it. I'm certain we're going to meet sometime soon. It has to happen.
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For sure. Uh, thanks a lot to Corey Morgan. If you liked the video, give it a thumbs up,
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subscribe to the channel, ring the bell for notifications. I'll see you in the next one.