Alberta - months from INDEPENDENCE - Canada - months from the END
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Summary
James Albers, a Wildrose Party of Alberta member for many years, joins me to talk about the aftermath of the election and what it means for the future of the independence movement in Alberta and the rest of Canada.
Transcript
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Well, I think Albertans are hurt and betrayed. That's how I think Albertans are feeling.
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I think Canada as a whole got a sense of that feeling of hurt and betrayal with the way the
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Americans are treating us right now. But we're being treated, we've been treated that way for
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the last 10 years. Treated like our interests don't matter. Treated like our economic imperatives
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aren't important. Treated like we should be just shut up and just be satisfied with whatever the
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central government decides to do, regardless of whether it's constitutional or not.
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Hi, it's John and welcome to the channel. Great to have you along. I've got a different set. I've
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moved over here in the basement. I do have my big blue mug of coffee, but there's some water in there
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right now. And it is three minutes after 7 p.m. the 30th of April. Great to have you along today.
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And just a reminder, coming up on Saturday, there is an independence rally in Edmonton at the
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legislature. I will be there. I'm going to emcee the event from 1 to 3 if you can be there.
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Please show up. Show your support for independence here in Alberta. I'm driving all the way from
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Calgary to be there. So certainly if you live in the Edmonton area, you can be there. Again,
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1 to 3 on Saturday. Joining me today to talk a little bit about what's happened in the wake of
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the election on Monday night and the re-election of the Liberal Party after 10 years of dysfunction
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here in the country is James Albers, a Wildrose Independence Party of Alberta member for many,
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many years. James, terrific to have you here. Thanks so much for being on with me tonight.
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So right off the top, I showed that clip of Danielle Smith after the election. She says
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that Albertans are hurt and betrayed. How do you feel after the election the other night, James?
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Well, I think hurt and betrayed is a good description of it. We were looking at this as
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the opportunity, certainly from our perspective anyway, in the independence movement to see the
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conservatives come in and maybe, maybe just one last time, take a shot at rejigging confederation
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so that it worked for everybody. So that was, I think there was a faint hope in our minds that
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that might happen, but, um, the results kind of speak for themselves from, from my perspective.
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Anyway, um, Albertans have been let down again. And, you know, when you look at the results on the
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map, you know, that wall, uh, heading from, uh, the edge of Ontario all the way out West is, uh,
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it's, it says a lot. And I think we need to, we need to just be realistic about our chances of ever
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really having a, a seat at the table. Did you have mixed feelings like I did on Tuesday morning?
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Because, you know, I remember prior to Trudeau, uh, resigning, uh, on January 6th, a lot of people
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online saying they were hoping that he would resign. And I remember doing a video saying,
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I don't want the guy to resign. I want him to stick around. Cause I want to punish the liberals.
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I want to punish Justin Trudeau. They deserve to be punished being in Albert. And I thought that,
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and then of course, uh, Mark Carney got in and I wanted to see Polly have win because I wanted to
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see the liberals punished. But I woke up on Tuesday morning thinking, listen, the opportunity is even
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better now for the independence movement. And did you feel the same way kind of mixed feelings
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as I had? No, absolutely. And like I say, I think we were, we were quietly hoping that Polly would
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get in, but we've always maintained that, um, Albertans would want to see one last kick of the
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cap before making a decision to go on their own. And I think what we saw in the election on Monday
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was exactly that. I think Albertans woke up on Tuesday and went, you know what? We can't do this
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anymore. And, and for a lot of people, it was like, I've held my breath for 10 years. I've kept
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my opinions to myself because the regime in Ottawa wasn't too, um, uh, tolerable with regard to any
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kind of dissent, you know, those fringe minority people, that's how that goes. But, uh, I think, I think
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Tuesday morning people got up and said, okay, enough, enough. Well, you're in Albertan, you're from
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Edmonton originally. You've really only been part of the separation movement, as I understand, for
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about the last 10 years since Trudeau got in. Is that correct? That's correct. Yes. So you, you can
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think back to the days, probably, um, what, over 40 years now, the national energy program here in
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Alberta. I moved out here 12, 13 years ago and people still talk about that. Oh, absolutely. You
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know, and it's, it's funny because I served in the armed forces. I remember, I remember watching, uh,
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the Canada Russia hockey series and being so proud to be a Canadian. I served in the armed forces. I
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was, was proud to, to wear that maple leaf when I traveled through Europe. And then one morning I
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woke up and I went, ah, you know what? The country that I loved is, has no, no, no, no longer any use
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for me as an Albertan. Uh, and they've left us behind. And it really, uh, it was a real, uh, wake up
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call for me after the Trudeau election. What really bothers you about what's been happening
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to Alberta over the last 10 years? And again, maybe even going back four decades,
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there's been this situation for 40 years or what's bugging you about this?
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Well, I think what, what everybody's coming to realize, and for me in particular, is the fact
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that we can bang on the door all we want. We're really not going to get in, uh, to any sort of
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serious discussion with Ottawa with regard to having an impact that will allow each province,
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quite frankly, to, to be an equal and, uh, and an equal partner in Confederation. It's just not
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going to happen. And you know full well from your history that it was never designed to give the West
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that kind of, uh, leeway. Uh, the West was always designed to be, uh, an area that fed the, uh, the
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metropolis, which was Ottawa, you know, Toronto, Montreal. And that model has worked perfectly. And
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I think people just have begun to wake up to the fact that that's not going to change.
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The other day, or just yesterday, the threshold for a referendum was lowered. I mean, it's,
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it's fascinating. This happened basically a day after or within 24 hours of the election,
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but we went from having to get around 600,000 signatures in order to get a ballot for a referendum
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here to dropping it down to 177,000 approximately and extending the period out, um, 220 days to get
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these signatures. This must seem closer than ever for you. And you must be thinking the time is now
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we've got to make this happen. Well, I think there's a recognition that the sentiment is much
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deeper and stronger than it ever has been. And so I think that was a good move on her part.
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And, you know, I have to say, uh, you know, I belong to a different political party, but we're
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big enough to say that, you know, she's done the right thing. She has been, uh, representing our
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province, I think, uh, extremely well. And, you know, I'm not afraid to say that, um, that's what
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real political discourse should look like, right? When somebody is doing something right, you should
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tell them that they're doing something right. And I think for her to, uh, to give the people, um,
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uh, place to, uh, to put their voice, I guess, with regard to a referendum. And I'm hearing some
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interesting numbers even today that there's several that are floating around that are almost
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at that 177,000 threshold. So I don't think it'll be very long before we're contending with, uh,
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with the whole idea of a referendum and, and people want to be heard. They, they, they're, they've had
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enough. Yeah. From what I understand, this has to be a paper. It has to be paper that has to be done.
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And I've seen some online petitions where they've got a couple of hundred thousand people already
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signing up. Um, but that doesn't really count. It has to be paper. The thing that I've noticed,
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the thing that I've noticed, um, I came from Ontario. I never really understood what the
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grievance was for Alberta until I moved here. And I call myself an Albertan now. I understand
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completely. Um, what I've seen online over the last couple of days is people seem to think that
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Danielle Smith's having a tantrum. People seem to think that voters out here are having a
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tantrum because we didn't get our way when it comes to, uh, the election the other night,
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the conservative didn't win. Carney got in. What do you say to those people?
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I think what people need to understand is that Albertans have kept quiet for a very long time.
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And we've always maintained that when, when Alberta decides it's going to leave,
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there's not going to be a lot of fanfare. There's not going to be a lot of posturing.
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It's like, no, thank you very much. We're done. Goodbye. And I think people will be shocked
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at how fast that happens. Well, I, I actually heard that there's a, there's an opportunity
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here. And I think this should be done. There should be a very, very, um, slow effort to move
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forward, but this is possibly, this possibly could get on a municipal ballot in October.
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We're having municipal elections here. I've heard people saying this could happen as early
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as October. This is a lot closer than a lot of people across the country think.
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No, I agree. And we, when we were looking at what was happening with regard to the polls and
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everything that was happening with Carney and the liberals, I think we recognize that this could
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come upon us fairly quickly. And I think the next couple of days or weeks are going to be very
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telling in terms of, um, you know, Mr. Carney flip-flopping back and forth on, um, so-called
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promises to Alberta, which don't really carry a lot of weight to be totally frank. But if he,
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uh, toes the line with, um, Mr. Blanchet and the Québécois and some of the stuff that's going on
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there, that's just going to add fuel to the fire. Like the resolve is already there. People are
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speaking up that have never spoken up before. It's like Albertans are saying, you know what,
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we're not going to be quiet about this anymore. Enough is enough. Well, you brought, I'm sorry,
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you brought up Francois Blanchet. So I actually have a clip. Let's play a clip of him. This is
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after the election. And then we'll come back and discuss. Okay.
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And the fact that there's no future for oil and gas, at least in Quebec and probably everywhere.
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And this has to be said and protected. I have a brand new weapon to do that. Mr. Bonin will be
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extraordinary carrying that message. So that was Blanchet saying no future for oil and gas
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in Quebec and really no future for oil and gas everywhere. I mean, this, we're never going to
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get a pipeline out East. If this is the case, the Parti Québécois out there, they feel the same way
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about our oil and gas. It's over. It's time to leave.
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Well, it is. And to, and to quote, well, not quotes verbatim, but a fellow Albertan and Premier
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Ralph Klein, it's like, well, let's just turn off the taps, turn off the taps and see, see how that
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works for you. Well, I always remember to quote, and maybe you don't want to say it, but I think
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it was let the Eastern bastards freeze in the dark or something like that. A very famous thing that he
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once said, and I've said here on my channel, I have, I have family. I don't want them to freeze in the
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dark, but we need to get our oil out. Well, what do you say to people who say, well, we'll be
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landlocked? Although I look at the map from the other day and I think we'll take half the country
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with us possibly if the independence movement continues to grow. Saskatchewan may be part of
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Northern British Columbia as well. Well, you know, the people forget about the fact that Alberta would
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have way more power to bargain with places like British Columbia, for example, as an independent
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country versus as a province. Right now as a province, we're hamstrung by Ottawa. We can't do
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that. But BC has, what, several trillion dollars worth of goods that flow into the port of Vancouver
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and out to the rest of Canada, and they would have to go through Alberta. So, you know, it behooves them
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to play nice with regard to stuff like that. Being landlocked isn't at all a constriction for what we
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need to do as an independent country. There's a lot, we would actually have a lot more freedom to
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negotiate in good faith with the people around us, with the provinces around us, and get something
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that works for everybody. Well, a few years back, well, actually, it's more than a few years. I've
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mentioned here again on the channel, I've got some pictures of a thousand people in an auditorium in
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North Calgary. This had been about 2019, and that question was... I was there. Were you there? Well, I was
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there, and it was the first time I'd ever gone out, and people were so excited about this. That was
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seven years ago, or six years ago now. And I remember somebody asking the question, well,
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if you can't get your oil through Quebec now, how are you going to get it if you leave? And the
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same thing with British Columbia. And the guy said, well, we'll just tell Quebec they can't have our
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oil, and they can't have our money either. You're going to get nothing from us. And British Columbia
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basically can't use our borders anymore. And I thought that was an interesting way of putting it.
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You brought up Mark Carney. Your thoughts on this guy? I mean, Trudeau 2.0, but I think he's
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Trudeau 2.0 even more. I think this guy's really dangerous for the country, and not good for Alberta,
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for sure. Oh, absolutely. I call it the biggest misdirect in the history of Canada, where instead
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of looking at the abysmal liberal record of which he had much to do, he got people to look the other
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way and look at the bad man down in the US. And they use fear. And that's been a liberal tactic
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for a long time. And I think that's what I think frustrates a lot of us Albertans as well. It's like,
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we don't make decisions based on fear. We make decisions based on what's best for us and our
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family and our livelihood. And the fear factor is something that rarely, rarely comes into play.
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That's why we were so upset during the whole COVID thing, not to sort of rehash that whole era. But
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Albertans have been fiercely independent, and we want to make the decisions that are best for us.
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And watching the other parts of the country, I won't say the rest of the country, because I think the
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West didn't buy into the baloney. Everybody bought into this fear-mongering, and it was disappointing,
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Yeah. You brought up Donald Trump, 51st state. He's been meddling, obviously, meddled in the federal
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election. If the independence movement gains traction here, what about meddling from Trump
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when that happens? What do you think about the 51st state thing? There are some people in the province
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that they want to go talk to the Trump administration about Alberta becoming the 51st state. Would you be
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open to that, or are you just looking for independence, our own country here?
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Well, two thoughts on that. Number one, Albertans will ultimately decide what that independence looks
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like, number one. Number two, for me, independence doesn't mean serving one country, then serving
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another country. Because, sure, Donald Trump's in right now, and maybe everything's looking rosy. But
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in four years, there could be a completely different type of administration in there that we
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would find very untenable. And so I don't know that jumping from the frying pan into the fire
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necessarily makes a good choice. So I'm for independence, not necessarily 51st state. Having
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said that, though, I think people misunderstand a lot of what's happening there. Donald Trump is
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advancing a foreign policy known as Fortress America. And that includes Canada, that includes Mexico.
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He has a very clear agenda, which I'm sure he has communicated to both Mr. Trudeau and Mr. Carney.
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And the fact that they're not biting at it, in fact, the fact that they are siding with China. So
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there's only two countries that are doing retaliatory tariffs right now, Canada and China. So I don't
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think that bodes well for Canada at this point, because Mr. Carney either isn't getting it or is
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actually being deliberately antagonistic. You find it fascinating that we went through 10 years of
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this, and then they got reelected. It was stunning the other night. And again, so many people just
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basically forgot everything because they had Trump derangement syndrome. It was just stunning to see
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that happen the other night. And I did want Paulie up to win. He did very well. He actually did very
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well. He'd have been the prime minister if this hadn't happened with the 51st state and the liberals
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playing it to the YLT. And they did a damn good job of it, you have to say.
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Well, and don't forget, they had the help of the propaganda arm, which was all the mainstream media.
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I was at the point where I was only listening to independent media voices on YouTube and other
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places like that, simply because you couldn't find a mainstream outlet that would give any
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credence or credibility to any of the conservative positions or to Mr. Paulieff.
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There'd be lots of time oohing and aahing over Mr. Carney, but every commentary around the
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conservatives was negative. And they weren't even trying to hide it. And I think that,
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and if that's what we were seeing in Alberta, I can tell you that it was 10 times worse in
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What do you tell people here, maybe in Alberta, that might have to vote on this in the future?
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What benefit will it be for them to be an independent country here in Alberta, as opposed
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Well, you know, I just start with a really simple fact that, you know, would Alberta,
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what would Alberta look like with that extra just about $70 billion that wouldn't have exited the
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province? You know, what would that have done for us as a province? It's, you know, even with
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things, you know, I don't want to go into, you know, get too granular on some of these issues,
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but even things like the CPP, Alberta overpays. We don't get nearly as much back from CPP as we pay
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into it. We're subsidizing other provinces. If we were actually paying into something that was
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a straight across deal, everybody would be better off, even with something as simple as a pension
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plan. So from my perspective, you know, we have way more to gain than we have to lose in this case.
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And I can tell you that when we start to negotiate, you know, what the federal government actually owes
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Alberta in this discussion, I think people will be shocked because nobody's really talked about that.
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Well, yeah, basically what happens, you get the 177,000 signatures, you get a ballot. If you get
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a clear winner, I think it's 50% plus one on a clear question, then the feds, the provincial
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government and Aboriginal groups, First Nation groups, by law have to sit down and talk about
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this with Alberta to work out the deal and to work out the future of Alberta and their place in it,
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correct? Something like that. Yeah. Boy, it's hard to believe, you know, I heard somebody throw out
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October. And I've said a few times on my channel that, you know, separation is closer than you may
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think. And it's getting closer day by day. And after the election the other night, it's, it's getting
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real close. James, thanks so much for talking to me. I do appreciate it. What would you suggest people
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do if they're part of this movement? What should they be doing to, to move it along and to get the
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ultimate prize, which is Alberta independence? Well, there's a couple of things that are going on right
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now. So you mentioned the rally that's happening up in Edmonton. So that is a joint effort between the
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Independence Party of Alberta and ourselves, the Wild Rose Independence Party. We see ourselves as a
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movement. So it's bigger than just being a political party. And so that's really important. So get out, make your
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voice heard, come to the rally. We're going to be putting on a convention or conference on
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independence in June. We haven't got the dates nailed down yet, but that's going to be happening.
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I hear that Mr. Manning is also exploring the idea of putting a Western Independence Assembly together.
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So keep your, your ears peeled and your eyes on the news and watch for opportunities to get out and
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make your voice heard. It was interesting to hear President Manning get involved in this about a week
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ago. He said that there'll be a national crisis, basically, if the Liberals win once again. And
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then I did read a little bit about him having some type of a committee, getting committees together.
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Back in 87, the mantra of the Reform Party was the West wants in. He's actually considering
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the West wants out right now, which is pretty amazing considering it's a big name like Preston Manning.
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So James, thanks so much for being here. I do appreciate it. I'm sure we'll see you in the future.
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And when we find out more about this conference you said you're going to have, I think in June,
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get you back on and we'll get somebody on to talk about that as well. Thanks so much for being here.
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Okay. We'll see you on Saturday. Absolutely. I'll see James, James Albers. And thanks a lot for
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watching the channel. If you like the video, please give me a thumbs up. Subscribe to the channel as
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