John Bolton - Bruce Pardy on the Referendum - Was Anything Gained & What Now？

00:00:00.000 Hi, it's John, and welcome to the channel. I'm recording this Friday, October the 23rd,

00:00:08.060 10 a.m. Hope you're having a great day today. We've got snow in Calgary. I'm staying inside.

00:00:13.960 I'd like to speak with one of my friends about the situation here in Alberta right now, which

00:00:18.800 I think I just described to him as rather fluid. Bruce Pardy joins me from Ontario.

00:00:24.780 Bruce, great to have you here. Bruce, the author of this right here. Can I get it up there?

00:00:28.860 articles of freedom, a constitution for an independent Alberta. Bruce, good to see you

00:00:34.880 again. You just left Alberta, Calgary a few days ago. I was with you the night of the referendum.

00:00:42.640 I spoke with you. It was very late. I was very tired. I didn't go back to hear what you said.

00:00:47.640 I was kind of in a blur at that point. I wanted to get your thoughts on what's happened over the

00:00:54.960 last four days you've done a bit of analysis i'm sure of this and where we move forward there's

00:00:59.240 some options here uh some people have their hair on fire uh over what's going on here uh just your

00:01:06.200 thoughts over the last i guess four days since we had the vote right right thanks john for having me

00:01:11.560 on and yeah we were all a bit blurry uh that that evening or early morning when we when we did the

00:01:17.180 video but i'm not sure that alberta yet realizes what it has done

00:01:25.180 it has it has neutered itself

00:01:31.100 well and i think are you referring in particular to some of the questions that failed here

00:01:39.500 well let's well the first the most important question of course is question 10 right right

00:01:44.440 uh because question 10 is is is the one that either leverages alberta's political power or

00:01:52.880 it doesn't and it didn't of course 75 percent of the vote went to option one which means

00:01:59.560 that albertans have pledged to remain in canada no matter what yeah so all your all your leverage

00:02:06.980 is gone and this is what we were this is what we were talking about send a message we'll have

00:02:13.080 some leverage if we vote for option two and a vast majority here voted the opposite way yes

00:02:19.300 so as so let's let's put this in very blunt terms as of monday night alberta is just another province

00:02:29.720 and and the rest of the country as and especially the federal government has no reason no incentive

00:02:39.160 to consider any of Alberta's grievances.

00:02:44.340 Now, so let's put it this way.

00:02:47.080 Independence as a cause has been put away for now.

00:02:52.700 I mean, that's a significant defeat.

00:02:56.080 Yeah.

00:02:56.820 But that's not the end of the story. 0.98

00:03:00.400 All of the grievances that Alberta has been making

00:03:02.940 over the past years and decades are now moot.

00:03:07.740 They're off the table.

00:03:09.160 you know there's no reason for the federal government to entertain not that it ever was

00:03:16.920 anyway i mean it was always they were always being ignored but there's no reason why that

00:03:20.780 should change now alberta now has no leverage and you know people have been saying yeah but what

00:03:26.560 about what about western alienation that still exists and the answer from outside alberta is

00:03:33.720 what western alienation you just vote all voted to stay in canada no matter what that's not

00:03:40.720 alienation that that's deference to authority it's interesting some of the articles i've been

00:03:45.560 reading this week by probably people who live out east are you know um canadians in alberta

00:03:51.400 listen to the country are we going to listen to albertans now and i'm thinking i didn't i don't

00:03:56.180 think there's any reason for them to listen to us at all and here you are saying the same thing i'm

00:04:00.900 I'm terribly concerned because I'm wondering if there may be some type of punishment coming down for us

00:04:07.200 for what we've done here and allowed this to happen.

00:04:10.040 Well, there might be punishment, but more likely, I think, is this going to be complete disregard?

00:04:14.660 Yeah.

00:04:15.500 Like the situation was before.

00:04:17.160 In other words, the happiest guy about these results has got to be Mark Carney.

00:04:22.200 because alberta has no mandate to ask for anything substantial in its relationship with

00:04:32.140 so let's just consider for a moment the rest of the questions not that they were ever very

00:04:38.180 important i've always maintained that the other questions were were a mirage yeah yeah and the

00:04:43.220 only question that mattered was question 10 but let's just for a moment glance at the other

00:04:47.260 questions the first five questions of course are policy questions largely within the jurisdiction

00:04:55.320 of the province and have always been that those are internal questions for alberta they have very

00:05:00.820 little to do maybe a little bit with immigration policy at the federal level but mostly within the

00:05:06.540 control of the alberta government those are questions that daniel smith did not have to ask

00:05:11.080 and certainly have nothing very little to do with alberta's relationship with ottawa okay so that

00:05:16.780 those are off the table and then the other the other four were questions about constitutional

00:05:22.460 amendments and those four questions lost they did yeah right now let's be very clear even if

00:05:30.620 they had won there was no realistic chance that any of those things would be accomplished but

00:05:35.300 they but they lost so danielle smith has no mandate to go to ask ottawa for any kind of

00:05:44.800 constitutional adjustment in its relationship with the federal government? None. Let me just

00:05:54.620 jump in here. All right. Because I saw the first five questions, they look like they're going to

00:06:00.400 pass. So we hope, again, these things could have been done prior to the referendum. There was no

00:06:06.900 need for these. We expect Daniel Smith to do these things now. People probably voted option one

00:06:12.720 because they saw the first five questions. Well, if we get these things, why do we need the question

00:06:18.220 10 one? So I'm just going to vote option one, because if I get these things, I'll be happy

00:06:23.100 about this. And then of course the other four questions lost, which is mind boggling to me,

00:06:28.420 I could run through them quickly, what they mean, but I won't. We're worse off now than we were

00:06:34.200 before. A hundred percent. That's exactly what I'm getting at. Yes, yes, yes. So who's to blame for

00:06:41.240 this who's the Alberta has shot itself in the foot yes who's to blame for this who would you put

00:06:45.980 who would you put this on Daniel Smith Daniel Smith Daniel Smith has put us in a worse situation

00:06:53.000 than we were in before yes and you know I I and others uh were saying you know a long way back

00:07:02.500 at least as late as march that this referendum was a trap and that the the uh tacking on an

00:07:14.680 independence related question on top of these other nine questions was a way to ensure that

00:07:19.680 that question was defeated and it would set the cause back and and that one of one of the choices

00:07:26.660 was not to accept the legitimacy of this plan, but it was embraced. And so you're stuck now with

00:07:34.920 the outcome. Yeah, I know. It's the funniest thing. I've been sitting back and thinking about

00:07:40.060 this. I'm not somebody who jumps to conclusions. I'm not somebody who, my hair is not on fire,

00:07:44.780 don't have much, but my hair is not on fire. People are losing their minds, Bruce, over the

00:07:48.560 last four days over this. I've been thinking, what are our options going on here? And it's very

00:07:54.640 strange. On Sunday, we on the independent side, we're very confident about what we did. We were

00:08:02.460 excited about how we handle things. And two hours after we realized we'd lost this thing,

00:08:07.560 we're now second guessing everything. I remember talking to you the other night saying,

00:08:11.280 you never should have accepted this question. And if they put the question on the ballot,

00:08:15.300 we're not going to vote for it. It will be illegitimate. That's what you said we should

00:08:18.460 have done. And you know, it makes absolute sense right now. We should have said way back when this

00:08:22.680 was, we're not going to vote on this. Forget it. Right. That's what you said. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

00:08:29.960 So, I mean, we're at, nobody came out of this ahead. Daniel Smith behind the eight ball here

00:08:35.420 as well. True. Yes. Yes, absolutely. Sure. Now mind you, she, it looked like she was going to

00:08:41.760 come out clean. And when, when the constitutional questions were, were ahead, it looked like she

00:08:47.320 might have gotten her yes to the nine and no to the 10th uh but but that is not the way it panned

00:08:53.620 out but you know like i'm not i'm not unhappy that these constitutional questions failed because

00:09:00.880 it makes the conclusion stark right off the bat i mean i've always maintained that the chances of

00:09:07.400 actually getting any of those amendments through is next to nil but it's now definitely nil because

00:09:12.620 you're not going to be able to ask for them i mean imagine i think in order to assess the results

00:09:17.900 properly you have to put yourself in the shoes of the federal government in the shoes of the

00:09:22.460 prime minister you know how should the prime minister have to respond now so imagine for

00:09:27.500 example danielle smith goes to mark carney and says you know alberta would like to talk about

00:09:32.460 a constitutional amendment to to abolish the senate if i was mark carney i would say

00:09:37.420 say, well, what is your mandate to ask for that? Your own people said no to that. We're not going

00:09:44.440 to entertain that. That's ridiculous. Yeah. And the other ones are selecting judges, 0.98

00:09:51.240 opting out of federal programs that have prevented for provincial jurisdiction and

00:09:55.480 strengthened provincial rights from federal interference. They're all gone. It's stunning

00:09:59.280 that they were voted down. I mean, they make perfect sense to me, but. Right. But I have to

00:10:03.940 emphasize this point even if even if the answer any of those had been yes on the vote they had

00:10:12.300 no chance of no no no no and we saw what happened we always refer back to 2021 and the equalization

00:10:19.120 thing yes you have to have that magic formula seven out of ten provinces 50 percent of the

00:10:24.060 population thing which isn't going to happen but so my question here's another thing that's been

00:10:29.500 running through my mind i i try to think about things a little differently what was the point

00:10:33.320 of all this i think the point of it was so

00:10:42.440 one take is that the point of it was to try and put down an internal civil war inside the ucp

00:10:51.960 and the jury is out about whether that is going to happen yeah right so so daniel smith long said

00:11:01.640 that we're going to have we're going to have this vote and once the vote is held

00:11:05.320 and and the leave side loses that's going to be the end of it and she's still saying that

00:11:13.080 and in fact that that has a parallel to brexit that's what david cameron said the purpose of

00:11:17.720 the brexit vote was to put down the the brexit ears that were inside the conservative party so

00:11:23.080 we could get them to shut up or go away and that's what danielle smith has said about these

00:11:30.120 separatists inside the UCP, either, either, you know, toe the line or get out.

00:11:35.620 Right. Yeah. And let's be, let's be clear about this. She's not trying to purge independence

00:11:41.600 people from the party. She just says she does not want the UCP. It is not an independence party.

00:11:47.060 And if that's what your plans are, you might as well leave and find somewhere else to go. We need

00:11:50.360 to make that clear. There's a difference between trying to throw people out of the party and that's

00:11:54.280 not going on right now. So let's just take a look. And I jotted down a couple of things. I put

00:11:59.920 where to go now. Okay. And we could talk more about Danielle and, and, and, but there's maybe

00:12:06.060 four different things. So maybe you can add something in here so we can all the independence

00:12:10.580 movement. And I don't think this is going to happen. We can try to work towards a strong

00:12:14.240 Alberta within a United Canada, which is Danielle Smith's plans. That's what she wants us to do.

00:12:18.800 We can oust her. A lot of people in the independence movement want her gone. 1.00

00:12:22.820 The independence movement takes over the United conservative party. I have said,

00:12:26.860 I think that's like pissing up a rope.

00:12:28.880 I don't think there's any chance that's going to happen.

00:12:31.240 We have to play on their field.

00:12:32.880 We have to play by their rules.

00:12:34.140 It's their party.

00:12:35.040 Daniel Smith runs the thing.

00:12:36.600 Don't think that's going to happen. 0.98

00:12:38.280 That's ridiculous. 0.68

00:12:39.480 Or start an independence party. 0.85

00:12:41.240 Now, I don't know if there's any more options,

00:12:42.740 but that's kind of what I've been thinking about all week long.

00:12:45.540 Where do we go from here?

00:12:47.780 And I don't know, what would you suggest?

00:12:50.240 Or are there other options?

00:12:51.420 What do you think?

00:12:51.840 Let's just start with your first one.

00:12:53.180 because i think this needs some consideration because this this phrase which we've heard over

00:13:00.400 and over again that you know to to pursue a sovereign alberta inside a united canada

00:13:07.500 i don't know what that means i don't either no because if you're going to be literal about it

00:13:15.120 alberta is already sovereign within its areas of provincial jurisdiction just like every other

00:13:22.680 province is and in fact a lot of the trouble that alberta has and is and the issues that it is

00:13:29.280 talking about is whether or not to exercise the powers that already has that's what the first

00:13:33.680 five questions are largely about right so if all you're talking about is deciding inside alberta

00:13:40.660 amongst yourselves to exercise the powers that already exist well what was the point of all of

00:13:45.980 us yes yeah right and if it means something else if it means no we want to be more sovereign than

00:13:52.960 we are right now well i'm sorry that requires constitutional adjustments and you are not

00:13:59.100 getting that remember in this constitutional structure the provinces are sovereign inside

00:14:06.120 their jurisdiction and the federal government is sovereign inside their jurisdiction and the

00:14:11.480 federal government has sovereignty over all kinds of things like anything that passes over a border

00:14:17.440 provincial or national it has jurisdiction over the criminal law it has jurisdiction

00:14:23.300 over over environmental matters that transcend a provincial boundary it has jurisdiction over

00:14:28.920 aboriginal rights and so on and so forth alberta especially today after the referendum is in no

00:14:35.800 position to demand that the federal government give up any of its sovereignty under its own

00:14:42.920 jurisdiction. So that's off the table. So if all we're talking about is Alberta exercising its

00:14:48.780 own existing powers, well, get on with it. Why so much talking? That is nothing to do with the

00:14:56.660 relationship between Alberta and the federal government. You know, it's interesting when we

00:15:01.140 got this 25% of the vote. Um, we got our asses handed to us. We did. Yeah. I mean, the difference 0.99

00:15:08.420 is a million votes. People are saying we need to have an audit of the votes folks. It's a million

00:15:12.720 votes. It would be an extraordinary thing if they could get 10,000 votes and, and, and get them in

00:15:18.980 and, and cook the books basically on this. But, you know, there are people who are suggesting

00:15:26.400 that you know we how where is it going with this now i kind of lost my train of thought here but

00:15:32.180 you know we're we lost this in a very very big way so yes danielle smith she knows her party

00:15:39.000 better than we do i think she's probably run the numbers she realizes by what she's doing

00:15:44.800 she probably can survive and run in an election next year and win wouldn't you well yes that's 1.00

00:15:50.660 quite possible but let's let's go let's go to your second second one which which is her as

00:15:55.900 used to ouster so let's put it this way if if you're on the independent side let's just do this

00:16:01.480 rundown where is it if anywhere that you won a majority you didn't win it on the vote on question

00:16:10.780 10 you didn't win it certainly didn't win it in the cities you didn't even win it in the rural

00:16:17.100 ridings there were only two rural ridings that had more votes for question for for leaving in

00:16:23.900 question 10 than for staying in canada the only place the only place where it is alleged

00:16:32.700 that you have a majority of people is inside the ucp membership yeah and so the question is

00:16:42.460 number one is that real and number two if it is real do you plan to give that up

00:16:49.840 well if if as some people want they take over the ucp by getting independence people

00:17:01.740 on constituency associations and inside the party they think that they won't be giving it up

00:17:07.760 they'll be taking it over i don't think that's possible i think that's difficult to do well it

00:17:12.100 It may be, but I agree it's going to be difficult.

00:17:16.060 But see, I think the choices are very stark.

00:17:19.980 I think all of them are, yes.

00:17:21.780 Right?

00:17:21.940 And I think the choice is, certainly with respect to the UCP,

00:17:26.960 either it is to accept defeat or to make a mess.

00:17:34.940 And the mess is next election, which is next October the 18th,

00:17:40.280 and the head nancy and the ndp are yes but you see this is a game of chicken that they've been

00:17:45.640 playing with you all along the federalists have always been playing from the very beginning this

00:17:50.040 game of chicken and the and the and the and the chicken is the ndp oh i know yeah right and so

00:17:56.920 the challenge that they have uttered to the independence people is you better not do this

00:18:03.480 this or the NDP is going to win. And they might be right. But for my money, the proper response is

00:18:10.780 or was always back at you. You do this, you risk the NDP winning. In other words,

00:18:20.280 we're not giving up our cause. How about you give up yours?

00:18:23.280 Yeah, it's interesting. I spoke, I'm sorry, I spoke to a few people over the last couple of

00:18:27.640 days. They're really worried that if the NDP get in, that the independence movement is going to get

00:18:33.200 blamed for this. And I said, listen, I said to them, listen, I understand where you're coming

00:18:37.640 from, but a good defense is a strong offense. You need to go back at them. I said, I don't know

00:18:44.040 about creating another party. That's difficult to do. We may have to burn the province down in

00:18:50.420 order to get back to where we want to be again, because the NDP will be a catastrophe as I believe

00:18:55.940 Canada is a catastrophe. We're getting closer to rock bottom all the time in Canada. The NDP is

00:19:00.940 around for a while, people might finally come to their senses. Like we said, we've weakened,

00:19:05.020 we basically weakened our province because these people voted option one on Monday. They should

00:19:09.220 have voted the other way. And that's what I said to them. A good defense is to go after Danielle

00:19:14.140 Smith and go after her. Maybe you need to start another party and it'll, it'll, the ripple effect

00:19:19.520 will happen. I think what I was trying to get to earlier when we got our 25%, I was thinking

00:19:24.580 the independence movement holds the balance of power. That's what I was thinking all week long.

00:19:29.520 It's like a small party that wins a couple of seats.

00:19:32.040 They only want a couple of seats, but they're the ones who can bring the government down

00:19:36.900 or prop it up.

00:19:37.880 And I think we're in that situation right now.

00:19:39.600 We do have a lot of strength here in the independence movement.

00:19:42.380 Am I right?

00:19:43.460 You are right.

00:19:44.320 You are right.

00:19:45.000 And if you could figure out a way to leverage that strength in that exact way to hold a

00:19:51.260 balance of power, then you've got something to work with.

00:19:53.760 Yes.

00:19:54.540 Right.

00:19:55.160 And that brings us back to your choices.

00:19:57.600 i mean the choices are to try and try and and make a mess inside the inside the ucp or you could

00:20:05.040 you could try the you know the independence party route i mean i'm you know i'm not a

00:20:11.760 i'm not a political advisor type i wouldn't know right which of these things is more politically

00:20:17.680 feasible but i do know that unless you choose one you're just going to be in the political

00:20:23.680 wilderness the the uh the powers that be in the ucp are going to insist as daniel smith has

00:20:28.640 suggested that you know you you can stay in the ucp as long as you behave and you utter no utter

00:20:34.880 no preferences for an independence option if you're like if you're willing to put up with that

00:20:40.160 but that means you're that means you are neutered that means you've given up the cause and if one of

00:20:45.360 the causes for having independence in the first place is as you and i and many others have stated

00:20:50.400 if the cause is look canada is broken and it cannot be fixed this you are now on a path

00:20:58.600 pretending that canada can be fixed it's not going to happen no no so it's got to be

00:21:05.660 independence or bust i'm sorry even in the face of the result on monday which are which is very

00:21:10.360 discouraging it's still independence or bust and if if you're if you are distracted by internal

00:21:18.700 you know, you see pre-politics or distracted by the boogeyman of the NDP, then you're not going

00:21:26.980 to get there. Yeah, I agree. I agree with you. You know, I was talking to some people the other

00:21:32.260 day. So we have to go right back to a vote. Well, it wouldn't work right now. You know, we're going

00:21:37.380 to have to wait a little bit here. People are saying we need to do this within the next 24

00:21:40.660 months. I don't know that that's true or not. But I said, you have to realize and you have to think

00:21:45.120 about it from this uh standpoint the the quebec referendum in 95 they got 49 and they haven't had

00:21:54.060 one since yes we could be waiting a long time here so yeah i mean just what are your thoughts do you

00:21:59.940 think do you think danielle smith has to go i mean i'm just wondering i you know you're not a

00:22:04.300 political pundit or anything like that but you know what i thought of when i was thinking about

00:22:09.440 talking about this i thought of three people and it's funny because jason levine had you guys out

00:22:15.100 I thought of Matt Rowley, very calm, level-headed guy. I thought of Dennis Kalma. I talked to Dennis last night. I haven't spoken to Matt yet. I might talk to him still. And I thought of you, because you think differently in this way.

00:22:28.780 um well what do you think i mean people want danielle smith's head on a pike basically right

00:22:34.880 now they want her gone and you know what i'm not 100 against that i mean she's she's um she's 0.89

00:22:41.460 weakened our province as we've talked about right here she's turned her back on a lot of the people

00:22:45.980 that supported her yeah she supported the other side when we thought she should have remained

00:22:50.860 neutral she has you know you know she's she's neutered our province here basically what do you

00:22:57.560 think well i think first and foremost that that decision should not be made in an emotional way

00:23:04.160 like this is not about yes yes yes it's not a get back at danielle for what she did that's not

00:23:11.280 that's not the idea the idea is what makes sense now given the present moment you know what what's

00:23:18.280 your path forward and can that path be taken with danielle or does it need to be without her

00:23:23.600 and seems to me that if you are still in favor of independence maybe it's much further out than

00:23:31.480 you thought but but for me danielle's stance and plan does not make any sense it's the only

00:23:41.200 objective so what here's here's what it's come down to the only objective now on really on the

00:23:47.320 table that anybody that i think should take seriously the only objective is we have to win

00:23:53.660 the next election that everything else has gone by the wayside certainly in terms of changing

00:24:00.400 your relationship with ottawa there's nothing else on the table so the only so she's managed to to

00:24:08.220 get all of these other issues away and focus everybody on again on the on the ndp boogeyman

00:24:15.460 if people buy into that well then so be it but what you end up with in that scenario if things

00:24:22.020 go well is you end up with a new ucp government next fall and no progress on essentially on

00:24:31.220 anything else now don't get me wrong you might get some policies or legislation about you know

00:24:35.140 services for immigrants or voting but as as reflected in those first five questions but you

00:24:40.820 haven't actually done anything substantial anything substantive i i'm sorry i'm sorry i'm

00:24:48.240 sorry go ahead yeah no i i think in the first five questions she has to she has to deliver on those

00:24:53.700 things now yeah sure but but i and i don't disagree and she may in some way now mind you

00:25:01.320 the things that she's done so far which she's trumpeted as triumphs like the alberta bill of

00:25:05.740 rights are is really nothing of the sort and so you might get something like that here something

00:25:10.500 that looks pretty but doesn't actually do anything but who knows maybe it'll be substantive but

00:25:14.980 in the context of things these issues i don't mean that they're irrelevant i mean it's important to

00:25:22.020 you know require id for voting for example but but in terms of the in the context of the kinds

00:25:28.920 of issues that alberta's been talking about for the last 12 18 months i mean these are drops in

00:25:35.560 a bucket. I mean, this is not, again, any kind of reconciliation of Alberta's relationship with

00:25:45.040 Ottawa and the rest of the country. Those things are not going to be done. And here's the thing

00:25:50.760 that's, I mean, I've been sitting here, you know, kind of paying attention. I tend to do that. I

00:25:56.540 don't go to social media. I do talk to a few people and the infighting has begun in a big way.

00:26:03.400 I don't trust a number of the people who are trying to get within the UCP.

00:26:08.300 I don't trust them anymore.

00:26:09.380 A lot of people do.

00:26:10.660 So you've got a divided independence movement here as well, I think.

00:26:14.180 Right, right, right.

00:26:14.860 And it's going to be hard to get everybody together on the same page.

00:26:18.680 You've got some people who say, we need to go down the road and live to fight another day.

00:26:24.460 And it might not be right now.

00:26:25.520 The independence movement isn't dead.

00:26:26.820 That's the way I see it right now.

00:26:28.360 I'm still dedicated to that.

00:26:30.280 I don't know whether I'll see it.

00:26:31.280 I may die before there's another vote in this province. And then you've got the people on the

00:26:35.240 other side saying, got to get Danielle, got to get into the UCP, got to take over the party.

00:26:40.420 And then, you know, so we've got all these different groups out there right now and it's,

00:26:43.260 and it's hard to know. And again, keep a level head about this. I haven't gone off on my YouTube

00:26:47.600 channel. I've said very little bit about this. I had some fun the other day when Danielle made her,

00:26:52.560 made her a little announcement. I said, well, you know, let's bring the independence movement

00:26:55.680 out. Let's get it, have a rally, get back together as friends at the, the AGM coming up in November.

00:27:00.520 I think it'll be fun for her to see all of those nice blue flags and all of our little signs and everything.

00:27:05.740 But I think there's a real fracture here right now when we have to somehow bring everybody together.

00:27:10.700 I don't know how to do that.

00:27:12.300 Well, I'm not sure that you do.

00:27:15.120 So I know that the instinct is for unity.

00:27:24.900 I'm not sure if that's either possible or necessary.

00:27:30.520 Certainly, within the so-called big tent of the UCP, are you really going to have unity?

00:27:38.460 I can't see it.

00:27:40.260 No, no.

00:27:41.040 Right?

00:27:42.120 And even within the independence constituency, you should expect people to be inclined different ways.

00:27:50.420 Now that the cause of the referendum that focuses people on a date and demands that people sort of row in the same direction, that is obviously done now.

00:28:05.980 So now there's lots of room to row off in different directions.

00:28:08.920 In other words, sometimes a little bit of chaos is not such a bad thing.

00:28:14.140 Yeah, and then the cream might rise to the top.

00:28:16.000 The best idea will probably take over.

00:28:18.760 I, again, I've been talking to people over the last couple of days thinking, you know,

00:28:22.660 if you really think we should go the route of a party, we have parties here that are

00:28:26.740 independence parties already. We have people who are politically inclined that have done this

00:28:31.760 before. And I, I, I've tried to stay at arm's length from politics in my life. I want to know

00:28:36.580 what's going on. I've always done that. I've been in media, but being in media, I wanted to maintain

00:28:41.000 some integrity, integrity and credibility. When I was talking to politicians, they knew I was

00:28:45.560 conservative. I was always harder on the conservatives than I was on the liberals.

00:28:48.960 So I've always been at arm's length. I don't know the inner workings of politics very much.

00:28:53.280 And I think you've said here, you don't really either, but I see what's going on right now. And

00:28:57.660 I see all the infighting and the people who are really emotional about this right now. I understand

00:29:03.240 that, but I've tried to keep a bit of a level head this week and kind of weigh all the options.

00:29:07.900 And something else might come forward too. I'm not sure what that one would be.

00:29:10.800 i was danielle start a new party get within the ucp you know there might be something else there

00:29:16.020 might be another option out there for us but another one does not occur to me it's not i

00:29:19.560 don't think yeah i can't either obvious right so and and people are going to you know when i

00:29:24.880 when i'm saying chaos is a little bit of chaos it's not such a bad thing people are going to say

00:29:29.220 well yeah but that invites an ndp victory and and that is a possibility this is the thing

00:29:36.680 that has been invited now.

00:29:40.080 The inability of people on the right,

00:29:44.720 let's call them that,

00:29:46.440 to agree about the state of Canada

00:29:50.420 and Alberta's place in it

00:29:52.600 and the necessity to at least

00:29:55.580 not vote to stay,

00:29:57.760 to promise to stay in Canada,

00:29:59.420 that division has produced this scenario

00:30:02.880 in which the NDP may have a shot

00:30:06.680 at winning the next election what did you expect to happen what did you expect to happen i'm

00:30:12.680 speaking now both to the independence people but also especially to the federalists in alberta

00:30:18.040 what did you expect to happen you have a committed group of people who are convinced that that our

00:30:24.360 country is unhinged broken and cannot be fixed and you insisted that you would vote promise to

00:30:32.440 stay in it nevertheless and you know and and you won you won the vote but you haven't won the cause

00:30:40.280 what did you expect to happen from here those people are not going to give up this cause because

00:30:45.080 they understand the situation that we're in and you know for our money you guys don't yeah i i i

00:30:52.760 think that i think that some of these people will come to regret their vote on monday i really do

00:30:57.080 You know, what do you think that we I mean, I talked about us having the balance of power.

00:31:02.920 We do have a sizable number of people.

00:31:04.760 Now, we have to keep in mind that there may have been a lot of people on Monday who voted just to send a message.

00:31:09.840 They weren't necessarily for independence. Could have been a large percentage of those people.

00:31:13.780 Absolutely. And after all, we we we suggested that they vote that way.

00:31:18.620 We did completely on board. So we have to assume that the actual independent supporters are something less than 25 percent.

00:31:25.060 fair enough yeah and and thank you for doing that we appreciate it and we would have had an

00:31:29.540 opportunity perhaps if we'd won to convince them to vote for us again to the next one but

00:31:34.520 what else is there anything else that's positive out of this no no no no this is a this is the

00:31:41.000 thanks bruce i'm glad i called you oh no this is this there's nothing good about the outcome here

00:31:48.260 nothing it's a it's a train wreck for alberta and as i said off the top it's not just the

00:31:54.760 independence thing you you have undermined your case for the rest of the country like in order

00:31:59.860 to see these results properly you have to put yourself in the shoes of somebody who's not in

00:32:05.120 Alberta right from the from the from that perspective look Alberta is the wealthiest

00:32:11.860 province in the country Alberta has just voted to promise to stay in Canada no matter what

00:32:21.620 what is the reason why anybody else should listen to any further gripes from alberta there's no

00:32:30.000 threat alberta is well off it has all the better resources than any place else in the country

00:32:36.980 there is and everywhere else everywhere else in the country is also hurting worse than alberta

00:32:42.180 alberta has shot itself in the foot there is no real means by which now to to for anybody else

00:32:49.900 to take you seriously. I remember, we'll wrap it up here in just a second, but I remember asking

00:32:56.260 you, why do you come out here? Remember I asked you that? Why do you keep coming back? What was

00:33:00.180 your answer when I asked you that before? Why do you keep coming to Alberta to talk about this?

00:33:05.020 Well, because I sensed in Alberta the possibility of a solution to the situation in this country.

00:33:13.380 that for my money this country is busted it's a train wreck and i i sensed in alberta at least

00:33:21.520 the possibility that enough albertans understood that and understood that it couldn't be fixed and

00:33:26.480 the only way to fix it ironically was to leave it and uh and i still believe and i i've experienced

00:33:34.260 all the terrific albertans who do understand that and uh i made a lot of friends along the way

00:33:41.040 including yourself, John, and Jason,

00:33:44.000 and a whole lot of other people.

00:33:46.020 And it's been a terrific experience.

00:33:48.400 But unfortunately, it looks like

00:33:50.560 it's not the critical mass of Albertans

00:33:52.940 who think that.

00:33:53.540 In fact, it turns out

00:33:54.900 that the critical mass of Albertans,

00:33:57.640 the three quarters of them,

00:33:59.160 are just too Canadian for this.

00:34:04.480 Yeah.

00:34:05.700 Opportunity lost, eh, Bruce?

00:34:07.440 Yeah.

00:34:08.100 Opportunity lost.

00:34:09.300 Wow.

00:34:09.580 yeah and uh i thought maybe i'd come out of this feeling better

00:34:13.500 well you know it it you know i i've been thinking this all week what was the point in all this we've

00:34:21.180 accomplished nothing but honestly we're in a worse position than we were going into this

00:34:25.060 on monday or when the the voting started and i and i feel sorry for the for the people that

00:34:31.120 voted the wrong way because we might have had an opportunity and it has been lost but

00:34:34.900 all is not lost i mean i think we can keep this moving but it's going to be a while and people

00:34:40.060 who say we need to rush to do this again i think we'd have the same or worse results it's just

00:34:46.220 that's ridiculous yeah yeah and and one one of the theories is and i i'm reluctant to embrace it but

00:34:53.160 it's got something to be said for it is that you know what in alberta it just hasn't gotten bad

00:34:58.740 enough yet and and and more people will maybe maybe understand if time goes on and things

00:35:07.800 continue to deteriorate and on that ground people have even mused that maybe an ndp victory is a 0.90

00:35:14.740 good thing so yeah so that so that they can you know burn the place to the ground and people will

00:35:19.020 understand the situation that they're in now i'm not i'm not advocating for that but i am saying

00:35:24.020 that in order to persuade more people

00:35:28.040 that your cause is the right one,

00:35:31.260 it may need to look more stark than it does right now.

00:35:36.140 And that's playing a dangerous game.

00:35:37.960 I can see it, but what else you got?

00:35:41.840 Yeah, I've heard that a lot this week.

00:35:43.980 I've heard that a lot this week.

00:35:45.500 It has to become more grim for people finally to catch on.

00:35:48.640 Bruce, great to talk to you.

00:35:49.600 Thanks for doing this today.

00:35:50.540 I do appreciate it.

00:35:51.540 Do you plan on coming back to Alberta again soon?

00:35:53.500 I mean, we haven't got the independence movement, but you have made a lot of friends here.

00:35:57.080 I have made a lot of friends and I would love to come back.

00:35:59.400 So sooner or later.

00:36:00.460 Thanks, John.

00:36:01.000 I appreciate you having me on.

00:36:02.620 Well, thanks very much.

00:36:04.300 You know, I've spoken to you a number of times, but I've never had a real sit down with you

00:36:07.720 before.

00:36:08.060 I was thinking about that.

00:36:09.220 You know, I've talked to Bruce here a couple of times.

00:36:11.260 I've talked to you at events.

00:36:12.280 We did it the other night with Jason right after sort of the concession speech by Keith

00:36:17.800 Wilson.

00:36:18.340 But it's really great to have you on and I will have you on again real soon.

00:36:21.400 um it'd be interesting to get you and dennis and matt back in the room but to talk about this

00:36:26.680 yeah yes it would wouldn't that be something and we could bring people out for sure because you'd

00:36:31.260 have people on all different sides of this the independence movement who want to get rid of

00:36:34.900 danielle you'd have the people who want a new party that would be a hell of a discussion maybe

00:36:39.180 i'll talk to jason about doing that we can make that happen okay great sounds good okay bruce party

00:36:44.520 my pleasure having you on and if you like this video please give it a thumbs up subscribe to

00:36:49.040 the channel. Ring the bell for notifications. I will see you in the next one.

John Bolton - October 23, 2026

Bruce Pardy on the Referendum - Was Anything Gained & What Now？

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