Cory Morgan - On Alberta independence, moving forward and can we win？
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Summary
Corey Morgan of the Western Standard joins me today to talk about the Alberta independence movement, the federal government's Throne Speech, and the future of Alberta's oil and gas industry. Corey is the author of Sovereigncy's Handbook, a book that details the history of the Alberta oil industry and its relationship with the rest of Canada.
Transcript
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Hi, it's John and welcome to the channel. Great to have you along today. Now it's just after 11am
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on the 28th on Wednesday. You're seeing this on Thursday morning. Thanks for being here
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on the channel. I do appreciate it. We've got a special guest with us today. I'm really pleased
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today. Oh, by the way, big blue mug of coffee. Tell everybody I've got my mug. Everybody asks
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about that. Corey Morgan joins me today. Corey from the Western Standard, as you can tell,
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I can see it right behind his head there. The Corey Morgan Show and the author of the
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Sovereigncy's Handbook as well. We're going to talk about the Alberta independence movement
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today. And Corey, thanks so much for being part of my channel. I do appreciate it.
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Oh, happy to be on. I've been loving watching your shows.
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Well, thank you very much. I wanted to start off by talking to you and asking you what you
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thought of the throne speech yesterday. And if there was anything in there that made you
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think that the federal government was going to be friendlier to Alberta or if you didn't hear
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anything at all? I didn't hear anything at all. I saw or heard, I guess, kind of what I expected
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to. I mean, I understand you're not going to get specifics in a throne speech. It's high level.
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It's fluff. It's sort of setting a tone for a session. But you do talk about some goals.
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We wanted to make it clear that, you know, Canada is a sovereign nation. He certainly reiterated
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that. But he never touched on the fact that we've got a unity issue going on in this country
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and throwing a bone to the West to try and make them feel a little more comfortable that something
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might change. I didn't hear any of that. He wasn't speaking to Western Canada with that throne speech.
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And that was something I was thinking about. I've heard, I haven't heard him say much of
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anything. I know he was on the CBC yesterday. He was asked about Alberta independence. I just quickly
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jotted it down here. He said, this is the greatest country in the world. And this is a country that
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works. And then he went into his Alberta spiel about him living north of Edmonton and living
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around the oil stands. But he's never really committed to doing anything about building
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pipelines. The fact, even with the fact that Daniel Smith has been very, very clear on what
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Yeah, he's dodging it like the plague. And he's got a balancing act. There are a number of members
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in his caucus who are virulently opposed to pipelines, more than just Gilbo, who is a lunatic
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and he always will be opposed to the pipelines. But he's got a balancing act. I mean, he has to some
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degree, or at least in perception, pulled the Liberal Party to the right. And Trudeau had spent
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10 years pulling that Liberal Party to the left. And he's got a lot of the leftovers of Trudeau in that
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caucus. And he doesn't, he's got to try and figure out how to balance it in keeping them happy
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while trying to keep Alberta happy. And I think he's going to side as usual on the side of Central
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Canadian leftists and just talk out of both sides of his mouth, but nothing is going to get done.
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Do you see, well, let me just say, I see pipelines as almost a symbol of the independence movement out
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here a little bit. I think if we had a logo, we could put a pipeline right through the middle of
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it. I mean, Alberta, a lot of our wealth is because of oil. A lot of the wealth in Canada is
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because of the oil. A lot of the wealth in Quebec is because of Alberta's oil and people resent the
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fact that we give so much money to the East and we're disrespected. They really don't care much
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about us. They didn't win hardly a seat here during the election. And very little is done about this
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from the federal government, Mark Carney. Do you think he can change? He's Mr. Net Zero, this guy.
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I mean, he is anti-oil other than buying a few when he was with Brookdale. Pipelines, I mean.
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Well, that's it. He's just clear in his book. I mean, he's an ideologue. He wants net zero. He wants
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this electric transition. With all of them, they bring in that cognitive dissonance over the fact
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that we just don't have the ability to transition to an electric world, even if we wanted to. We
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don't have the generating capacity, the transmission capacity. And they will just continue to,
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they seem to think if they can shut down conventional energy enough that new energy is just going to
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blossom like a daisy and replace it. What it's doing, unfortunately, is turning Canada into an
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economic basket case while we lag in productivity and GDP per capita versus other developed countries
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around the world. They aren't in reality. They won't face that reality. The banker refuses to face the
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fact that Canada is becoming one of the poorest developed nations on earth per capita, and he won't do
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anything to change that trajectory. We've got the resource right here. We've got oil and gas. The
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world wants it. And he's dragging his feet. It would be so easy for him. He's enough of a pragmatist
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just to say, we're going to get it done. That's all he has to say. Like, just say it definitively.
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We're going to build a pipeline and we're going to do it in short order. We're going to get rid of C69.
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We're going to lift the emissions cap. And the fact that he's giving nothing but weasel words just says,
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no, he has no intention whatsoever doing any of those things. Would it matter to you if he did?
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I did a video the other day saying, I really don't care what Mark Carney says. I'm an Alberta
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independent. I know you don't want us to use the other word. You said that in one of your videos.
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And I agree with you 100%. I mean, it's become a dirty word and people use it like a dirty word
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online when it comes to people talking about independence out here. But does it matter what
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Mark Carney and the Liberal Party do at this point? If they gave everything to Daniel Smith,
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does it make a difference to you when it comes to the independence movement here? I know you've
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been, you wrote a book on it, for goodness sakes. Yeah, to me, it won't make a difference. I've
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been on this for a depressingly long time. But my issue is with the system. And that's what brings
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me to the conclusions I have. It's a fatally flawed system. And at best, when we change parties or more
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favorable parties, it's just a temporary bit of reprieve from a system that's still going to keep
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serving the central part of the country at the expense of the others. But I, you know, and yourself,
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when we speak on these, we're speaking now to getting close to into the 40s of percent of people
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who agree with us. If he came around and did some of those things, we'd be speaking maybe to 20% again
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of the population. Like it's people like me, they're not going to convince, but they're convincing
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what's getting close to a tipping point of Albertans that this system is broken. And that
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is where they've got to pay attention. But nothing's going to change my mind. But he could deflate the
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What does it say to you? I think Daniel Smith even said that. I read an article with him the
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last couple of weeks saying if he were to come out and, you know, give a little bit to Alberta,
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as far as the demand she's talked about, that it would deflate the independence movement out here.
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What does it say to you that he hasn't done that? And he, I call it the liberal shuck and jive,
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basically. And that's what he's been doing recently regarding Alberta or oil and gas industry.
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Yeah, well, it shows that reality of that system. He doesn't, even if he personally cares what Alberta
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thinks, even if he really agreed with those things, it's not politically wise to bend to demands from
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Alberta, because you need to gain your votes in Quebec and Ontario. It's just math. And the House of
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Commons has followed that math for generations now. And that's why nothing ever changes substantially.
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Do you think, they talk about trade barriers coming down between the provinces. Do you think
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there's any chance of, I think it's an easy thing to do, an easy thing to say, but I think there'll
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be some holdouts regarding different goods. I think Quebec will be a huge holdout. We've heard David
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Eby and BC talk recently. He talks about CO2 and not about pipelines. Do you think that those trade
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barriers being dropped will help at all with this movement out here, or at least Alberta's place in
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Canada, I guess the best way to say it? No, he doesn't have the courage to take on the provinces.
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Supply management, they, you know, there's a speaking of the words that must not be uttered.
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That's one of the worst, most odious on many levels of policies that we have. But it puts huge
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roadblocks up from province to province to province in this country. And he won't touch it with a 10 foot
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pole. So if he doesn't have the courage to say that he's going to get rid of that rotten policy,
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then he's not going to fix anything. He's just, you get a tinker with a couple of things. Oh,
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we'll, we'll make sure BC can sell a little more wine in Alberta and we'll, you know, move a couple
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of minor things. But if you're talking real barriers, he doesn't have the courage to take
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on three years with that. Let me ask you, how do you feel right now as somebody who wrote a book on
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this? Um, you're somebody who was actively looking for independence years ago and for the lack of a
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better word, you failed doing it. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Long time ago because you didn't know what to do.
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I listened to your book when I was out in my garage last year, working on my bikes. How do you feel
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things are going right now? Do you think people have learned? Do you think people maybe read your book
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and are using as a bit of a guide or do you think that some of the failure is, is continuing right
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now? Uh, a bit of both. I mean, the book has been selling fantastically. I was quite surprised,
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you know, for a book that I thought did I'll write a couple of years ago and I, I sold more copies of it
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in the last month than I did in the prior two years, uh, which is not, not unexpected considering the
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climate, but the fact that people are drawn to it, that that's what I'm hearing from people that's
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different this time around. People are saying I'm there, but what do I do? And I'm off, I'm
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offering what I know at least. And I don't have all the answers as I like to say often. I just,
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I'll show you a whole bunch of things not to do anyways, so we can avoid going down that path.
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And I do certainly provide some things I think we should do, but the appetite for people is help me
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so I can get on this, you know, teach me to become active. That's, what's been really fascinating.
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Some of the rallies I've gone to meetings, I've gone to non-political people coming up to me.
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I'm used to seeing the same old faces, but here's ones that people have never been politically
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active in their life. And they're saying, I'm going to get up and I got to go out to something
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and I'm going to ask and see what I can do. So, but the movement itself, uh, there's no central
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leadership, no consistent messaging. Uh, some of the messaging to be blunt is outright abrasive
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and actually probably doing damage to the movement. Uh, that's atypical. That's not new as well.
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Uh, and I don't have a quick, quick, clear answer on how to solve that yet. Uh, this has to evolve to
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somewhere with a little more of a, uh, defined path for people. As I said, they're asking, but I'm
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having a hard time pointing and say, well, join this or do that. I mean, the Alberta Prosperity
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Project, they've done some good work. They've done a lot of groundwork and, and other groups, but at the
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same time, they're going to cap out and, uh, they don't appeal to a large enough number of people,
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I think yet. One of my concerns are this. I mean, I've got a little bit of political fatigue right
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now. I don't know whether you do. I certainly do after the election campaign. Um, it's summertime.
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Uh, I, I'm more interested in going on my bike than talking about politics right now. I'm wondering
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if there might, some of the momentum might be lost over the summertime. And as we get further away from
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the election, uh, into the fall, I think September 15th government comes back, but
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people are just going to lose interest in this. Do you have that feeling or are you, does that kind
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of, are you fearful of that? I guess is the way to put it. Um, not exactly. I, I think it might
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almost be kind of what we need a bit of a cool town. People are tired. Uh, they're angry. Give them a
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break because I mean, we still got to keep at it. Those are us who are active with it and the political
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junkies and the issues are important and the groundwork has to be done. I mean, if we're looking at a
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a year before a referendum, it's going to go fast, but all the same,
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a lot of people too, are also not just tired, but they're giving a bit of a wait and see.
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I mean, it's just been the throne speech. The session's just starting, uh, by fall when,
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you know, when, when finally it looks like a grudging budget is going to be released,
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even though I didn't want to, that's when it's really going to be driven home. I think though,
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as I'm expecting, very little is going to change. There's going to be no more excuses anymore.
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People are ready for another political season. I guess you could say the summer's over,
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they've done the barbecues, they've been out in the RV, they've been riding the bikes
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and they're ready to put, uh, put their heads back down on things and they're going to be rejuvenated.
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And, uh, hopefully the movement will have evolved itself a little better to capture by that point.
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You talk, you talked about the abrasiveness. I think, um, you know, being critical of the
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government's fine, but being critical and disrespectful to the flag in Canada. I think
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you've mentioned that. What do you make of the Republican party of Alberta? They had a get
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together just a few nights back, a thousand people showed up there. They seem to be,
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I've heard them described as the PPC of Alberta. What do you think about that?
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Yeah, kind of. And I actually was at a gathering the other night. I spoke with Cam Davies. I've
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A smart guy, a good communicator. As I said to him the other night, I just don't know what you're
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trying to do. He gave some of the lines just saying that there should be an option out there,
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something to keep the provincial government honest and to fill the void and things. Okay. But I just
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don't share the notion that that's a good idea right now. We're into an interesting spot with,
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with the old Stinsbury by-election coming up, they're going to run in it. And it is just,
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I think out of good fortune in a sense or bad, who knows, but that's the strongest
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riding in all of Alberta for Western independence support. It is the one and only that ever elected
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in a Western independence MLA. So if anywhere, the Republican party might come in at 20 or 30%
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with frustrated Albertans in there, but I think it would show a false showing of strength for that
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party. You're taking them during a by-election when nobody's afraid to make a vote because it's not
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going to disrupt the government. It's a good time to send a message. It's the best waters to fish in
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for that type of vote. But we have to remember that's the absolute best in the province you're
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going to get. So if they're getting 20% there, it's going to be 10% elsewhere. I worry. I worry a
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good showing would actually ironically be bad for the independence movement.
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Do you see somebody like a Cam Davies leading this movement or is he just
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too much of an outsider or again, maybe somebody who's kind of throwing a monkey wrench into the
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Yeah. I don't either. And that's what I've been trying to figure out. Yeah.
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Yeah. I'll put it at that. I mean, again, he's smart, well-spoken and knows the things. He's an
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organizer, but no, I can't see him take, and just to be blunt. And I mean, the thing was too, with Cam,
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he was at a meeting where people were pretty rough on him there. I mean, the guy's got the skin of an
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alligator and I'll give him that. You need it for this type of world, but he's just, they're garnering
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some support in some areas, but for the most part, people are kind of pissed with him. So again,
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I'm not sure why you're just plowing on ahead. By the same token with the old Stinsbury riding,
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though, if they come in with a real terrible show of support, it's going to be bad for the movement as
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well because people say, well, geez, if you can't even do well there, you're not going to do well
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anywhere, which it's because, and that's kind of the hypothesis. It's in my book. It's what I keep
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talking about because the party approach isn't the bloody way to do it. And so now, no matter whether
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they do well or they don't do well, it brings a whole new pile of hazards to the movement itself,
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but there's, there's nothing to be done. It's a free province. And that's the, the name of the game.
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If you can start a party and get out there, then go to it, I guess. And it's an unfortunate name of a
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party too. It's dividing within an already divided movement. It is. What do you, what advice do you
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have for the average person who's independence minded like myself? What should we do?
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Boy, you know, you know, aside from what's in the book and educate themselves, I just,
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I just keep encouraging people to build the grassroots around themselves. The old way,
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the old way of the reform party coffee meetings where it's five, six people at a time,
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get together with some friends, get together with some coworkers at the soccer game. Don't
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turn into an annoying fanatic. We've got enough of those, but this is where the discussions really
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start. You know, I've said it before, a person trusts a friend or a coworker, or even a bar buddy
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one-on-one much more than people like yourself or me or Cam Davies or Daniel Smith, for that matter.
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That's where real hearts and minds get changed. So if they're convinced this is the route we want to
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go, then that's great. But start to spread that word, then do it on the ground and get it out there,
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moving amongst others. I mean, till the more formal organization comes along.
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Do you, I have one more question after this, big question. Be prepared. Do you think we can win?
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Yes, but I think it's a long shot. If you'd asked me even a month ago, I would have said no,
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not a chance. But I still feel pushed for it. I mean, it's, it's steps and steps. I know I'm
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getting grayer, but if I have to wait, you know, five years, 10 years before a winning
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referendum, so be it. But I mean, if it could be next year, that's even more brilliant.
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I mean, the Ipsos read poll was shocking and it's amazing. It says so much on how silent the
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legacy media has been on this. An Ipsos read CTV poll finding 47% of Albertans thinking favorably on
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independence. This should be rocking the nation. And the silence is deafening.
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But I saw that poll myself. I looked at it, Corey, and I was concerned about doing a video on that
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because it was a nationwide poll of less than 2000 people. I think the sample in Alberta was about 171
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people. So it was small. So you can only read so much in. And there's also a world of difference
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between responding to a pollster saying, you know, I support the concept and actually putting your
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head down on a referendum when crossing the line. Let's say though, it's even at 40. That's
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significant, very significant or, or the, the prior poll, I think it was Angus Reed and that showed it
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at 37% was it? That was a large sampling. That was a good solid poll. So these are numbers done
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despite ourselves. These are numbers that are coming up without a widespread organization. And I know
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some APP people will get upset with me and no, I know they're working hard and they're packing rooms
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and they're holding great meetings and they're doing a lot of really good work, but reaching new
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people is difficult for them. So that, that 37%, I mean, a portion of that could be attributed to
00:18:26.580
the organizational work of groups like the APP, but a whole lot of it's organic. It's just people
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coming up with it to that conclusion on their own because of current events. So if it can be harnessed,
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if it can be organized, then no, it's not impossible. I'd still say if I was a betting man,
00:18:43.380
I'd have to take some odds before betting on getting out 2026 or having a yes vote. But boy,
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it's definitely within the realm of possibility now, most definitely within that realm.
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I hope so. You look at 95 and the referendum, Quebec got so close. They haven't had one since.
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Uh, if, if it's 30 years before I see another one here in Alberta, I probably won't see another one
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here in Alberta. I'll be too old. I'll be gone. Probably. I'll be 90 years old.
00:19:10.420
We'll see. And ironically, you know, one of the worst things that can happen is a really close one.
00:19:14.820
I mean, I, I think if it's going to come and we vote, I, I, I mean, Hey, I want to see a win,
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but if it, if it is 50% plus 0.1 of a percent, oh boy, we're in for a mess. Like you got a kick
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for the goal here. This has got to be beyond 50% comfortably. Okay. I have one more question after
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this one. If, if it were close, would Alberta be in a position like Quebec has been in? I mean,
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they've held the, the referendum, the separation thing against Canada for decades. Um, of course,
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the votes are much more important in Quebec, uh, to the people in Ottawa, but do you think
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it would help Alberta if it was a close vote for separation here?
00:19:55.620
I absolutely do. Because if we're, if we're looking at 45% in a, I mean, does you know that
00:20:01.860
we're not talking about a general, you know, CTV poll or a poll held by the standard or something
00:20:06.980
like that, that was people on the ground campaigning that's getting really close to the goalposts on,
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on this measure. I think it will shake up the country. It will wake people up and realize,
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even though we don't understand those Albertans, but okay, they're pretty turned upset. We've got to
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change something like this because if we don't change something, that number will continue to
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grow. Uh, they didn't just leave Quebec alone the day after that close vote. As you said, I mean,
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there was a lot of work, a lot of concessions, uh, a lot of pandering, which ironically led to more of
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the unity issues on this side of the country, but it would serve as a heck of a wake up call to the
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rest of the nation that, yeah, if you really want to hold onto that concept of a whole and united Canada,
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you got to start doing something radically differently and soon because it's going to keep growing if you
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leave it alone. I I've been critical and you brought it up here saying that there's really no leader.
00:20:57.460
Um, that's something I think we need. We need that figurehead. I saw Jason Kenney. He's been popping up
00:21:01.940
talking about this a lot, of course, and the head Nancy, the head of the NDP by election for him. Uh,
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he's going to use this against Danielle Smith, but he's a voice against the independence movement here of
00:21:12.420
two big names here in the province. For sure. We haven't got that person right now. Uh, Jeff Rath,
00:21:17.460
certainly doing some good work. I appreciate what he's been doing. Smart man, lawyer, Cam Davies,
00:21:21.700
whether you like what he's doing or not, at least he's a face out there talking about this issue.
00:21:25.540
Wild Rose independence party. Uh, you're the guy who wrote the book on this, you know, this inside out.
00:21:30.500
Have you ever considered maybe leading up this movement? You wanted to do it years ago.
00:21:34.900
And I've changed and I've grown things I've learned a lot about and being around a lot of actually,
00:21:42.340
you know, politicians and folks over the years now and things I thought I wanted to be and realizing
00:21:47.060
I'm not the person for it. Uh, a leader is much more than the one who gets to the podium and can
00:21:52.740
speak to the crowd, which I can do. I like to think fairly well and speak to the movement and things
00:21:57.940
fairly well. And I want to continue to do so, but leading takes a different sort of organizational
00:22:03.860
skills and interpersonal skills, that ability to, uh, run committee meetings and, and, uh,
00:22:11.060
Kiss babies and shake hands. Yeah. Yeah. There's a lot to it. And I don't have all of those skills.
00:22:17.220
I'm aware of it now. And, uh, I like to think I have a role in this movement and I want to be as
00:22:22.580
vocal and expand on it as much as possible. I'm comfortable saying that a spokesperson for the
00:22:26.980
concept by all means, but for an outright leader of some sort of organized, uh, uh,
00:22:34.100
function of some sort, I don't think I could quite hold that role very well. Communicators, sure.
00:22:39.300
But, uh, the one manager, not so much. I, I, this isn't going to be a very popular thing when you say,
00:22:45.940
I wouldn't want to be a politician. I think they have to work too hard and people are going to say,
00:22:49.220
you're not shy. I said, no, I drove with a, I drove with an MPP of mine from Cornwall, Ontario to, uh,
00:22:55.940
the legislature in Toronto. I spoke with the minister of transportation there, a five hour
00:23:00.980
drive, never said a word to the guy. Cause he was on the phone working constantly on a Friday night.
00:23:04.980
I couldn't do it. And I, people complained about poly being a politician for 20 years. I don't know how
00:23:09.860
you can be a politician for 20 years. It's a constant job, constantly working and working with the
00:23:15.220
public. I just couldn't do it. I've been asked to run before, and there's no way I could do that job.
00:23:19.620
Just much too much. No, it takes a special person. It really does. So, uh, I want to send people your
00:23:26.580
way. I think if people want to get information regarding, um, really how to answer the questions,
00:23:32.420
go to your personal YouTube, Corey Morgan, of course, Western standard, go subscribe to the Western
00:23:37.220
standard. Uh, one of the few places in the country that really, you know, has our thoughts and our
00:23:43.620
feelings in mind when it comes to presenting the news, giving us information. So go over there as
00:23:49.300
well and get your book. I guess the place to get that is at Amazon probably, right, Corey?
00:23:54.260
It's the easiest spot, unless you catch me at a function. I'm always carrying an arm load.
00:23:58.580
Sure. Uh, but again, I appreciate this very much. Um, I'd like to chat with you again in the future.
00:24:05.220
I appreciate you being here on my little channel. Um, I'm, I'm a great admirer of you. I've been
00:24:10.260
watching you for years and how are the bees doing by the way? I was just, uh, just wondering.
00:24:14.100
Oh, they're doing well. I managed to get myself stung the other day and
00:24:19.300
messed up, but that comes with it. But no, I really quite enjoy it. It's a, for,
00:24:22.980
you know, a little bit of time each week, I'll get away from politics for a little bit. I think
00:24:27.140
it's good for the soul and the mind. I do. I've got political fatigue. I really do. Corey,
00:24:31.940
thanks so much. Thank you. And thank you very much for watching. I do appreciate you being here.
00:24:37.380
If you liked the video, give me a thumbs up, subscribe to the channel, ring the bell for
00:24:40.580
notifications, and I will see you in the next one.