John Bolton - FreedomCalendar.net TV #0F1： Constitutional Talk From Dennis, Bruce and Matthew (LiveStream)

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00:11:30.000 All right. Hello, everybody.

00:11:35.120 Welcome to another evening here in Calgary.

00:11:39.540 We're competing against the referendum voting and advanced voting, so that's okay.

00:11:44.300 And a lot of people in our community are actually working the event,

00:11:47.460 so they're working the actual polls.

00:11:49.960 Thanks for everybody to be here tonight.

00:11:51.980 This is being streamed and recorded, so you can go ahead and share it out after.

00:11:55.600 Ooh, we got to clap.

00:12:00.000 So, I'm Jason Levine of The Levine Show.

00:12:04.020 How many people here have watched The Levine Show?

00:12:06.720 Oh, wow.

00:12:07.700 How many people have been on The Levine Show?

00:12:10.180 There we go.

00:12:11.420 There's a lot more hands now than before.

00:12:13.600 How did you guys hear about this?

00:12:14.980 X?

00:12:15.740 You hear about this on X?

00:12:18.700 Two minutes ago.

00:12:20.120 Two minutes ago.

00:12:21.100 Two minutes ago.

00:12:22.380 Right on.

00:12:23.140 You sent me a text.

00:12:24.180 On Facebook?

00:12:26.480 CBC?

00:12:28.580 You laugh.

00:12:29.400 I was actually on there today at 6 o'clock, but we weren't talking about this.

00:12:32.820 We were talking about the referendum and the scrutineers

00:12:36.340 and how the third-party advertisers have been banned from providing scrutineers.

00:12:40.440 So thanks to the media who's actually picking up a story

00:12:43.520 about this referendum and third-party advertisers.

00:12:47.200 So what we're going to do here tonight, I can tell you this is going to be great.

00:12:51.040 Okay, because we had a little dinner before.

00:12:53.600 One of us wasn't eating, but we'll just say a dinner.

00:12:56.760 And we kind of talked about how tonight was going to go,

00:12:58.940 And I was fascinated, absolutely fascinated about this conversation.

00:13:03.600 I'm pleased to have Bruce Partey with us, flying from Ontario, hanging out with us.

00:13:12.420 And we're still working on him moving here, still working on that.

00:13:17.020 We've got Dennis Kalma from the Alberta Transition Council and other work.

00:13:24.980 We've officially become friends today.

00:13:27.700 Right, Dennis?

00:13:28.940 yeah there we go that would have gone bad and we got matt rowley who's here in a very brave

00:13:37.040 position and i'm looking forward to hearing from you guys

00:13:39.320 how am i officially supposed to like hear ye hear ye like

00:13:45.700 all right six feet apart we'll keep them over there

00:13:52.000 max liked that one um and also very big thank you to max for streaming this out

00:13:58.840 he's alberta's madonna he doesn't need a last name he's just max and we all know him as max

00:14:09.000 so tonight is going to be a good conversation we're going to have each gentleman kind of pitched

00:14:13.540 to us and have a little conversation about where do they think we should go after the referendum

00:14:19.840 the more we're having now hopefully the second referendum which is binding hopefully there isn't

00:14:25.100 a referendum to have a referendum to have a referendum to have a referendum hopefully we

00:14:28.380 get to a binding one at some point and then what that transition and the new nation and how we can

00:14:33.180 get there looks like there isn't consensus i can tell you that right now and how any of that looks

00:14:38.620 other than if it's option one i think we have a consensus on option one yeah yeah so we're going

00:14:44.060 to get into that and then we're also going to do q a so if you didn't grab a card and a pen on your

00:14:47.660 way in you can grab one write it down and max if you can keep track of some online q a we'll be

00:14:52.700 happy to do some of those as well this is meant to be an engagement with you all this is a third

00:14:57.820 party advertiser event so if you're going to make any donations fifty dollars or less we don't need

00:15:02.780 to know who you are take your blood type or anything like that but if it's over fifty dollars

00:15:07.100 the government wants to know all about you so you govern yourselves accordingly on that one

00:15:13.820 what was that yeah and please kind of keep the audience participation down until we get to that

00:15:21.180 point of the evening because we want to keep it going and we have a very short

00:15:24.720 period of time here we have two hours max so with that I think what we're

00:15:28.260 gonna do is we'll start with the guy on my right who's been making the rounds on

00:15:31.980 the media you may have saw him and Sheila can read show today maybe a couple

00:15:36.540 times on the Levine show and he'll be debating Jason Kenny Friday so we are in

00:15:43.260 your corner so without further ado let's go ahead and introduce Bruce party and

00:15:47.700 And we'll talk about here what you think is gonna happen

00:15:50.860 if we hit option one.

00:15:53.180 If you hit option one.

00:15:57.060 No, no, Kev, we're gonna do that new,

00:15:59.820 your transition plan will come in there.

00:16:02.300 I got some power here, some power, a little bit of lever.

00:16:05.460 Right.

00:16:09.220 Helps the camera to stand up to speak?

00:16:10.700 Absolutely.

00:16:11.780 He has all the power, let's give it to Max.

00:16:14.140 So yeah, option one, so the first question

00:16:16.220 the whole panel and we'll hear your answers. What do you think will happen if option one

00:16:19.600 is successful on October 30th or 20th? Okay. Well, it all depends upon the number, right?

00:16:26.900 If the number is 40 something, then everything's still in play. The powers that be like Danielle

00:16:35.180 Smith are going to say that this was the moment where Albertans were going to choose. And

00:16:42.740 And if it's less than 50%, as far as she's concerned, that is the end of the matter.

00:16:48.180 She wants to put it away.

00:16:49.840 But that's not going to happen if the number is big enough to allow it not to happen.

00:16:55.700 If the number starts with a four, well, then this is very much still on the table.

00:17:03.100 If the number starts with a three, well, I think it's still viable, certainly longer

00:17:08.420 term.

00:17:09.420 It's not going to go away, but it's not going to be on the front burner either.

00:17:15.780 If the number starts with a two, that starts to sound like a defeat.

00:17:22.360 Because all of the hopes and aspirations and representations from the independent side

00:17:28.480 about what the support was will have turned out to be wrong.

00:17:33.740 And so then you have to figure out how to start again.

00:17:36.700 so bottom line is

00:17:39.600 under no circumstances will it

00:17:41.920 disappear

00:17:42.500 but how much viability

00:17:46.060 it has the day

00:17:47.860 after the vote depends entirely

00:17:49.860 upon what the number

00:17:51.840 is

00:17:52.280 I hate to ask you

00:17:55.720 but if it starts with a one

00:17:56.920 if it starts with a one

00:18:00.100 you can come and join me in Ontario

00:18:01.520 alright get out to vote

00:18:05.700 everybody

00:18:06.340 get out to vote. Yeah, Dennis, let's go ahead and hear from you what you think might happen

00:18:11.780 after a successful option one. So I tend to echo Bruce's comments and thoughts pretty closely on

00:18:19.360 that. But I would add one more thing I think that will happen is in my discussions and presentations

00:18:26.320 and so forth, the people seeking independent are a respectful bunch. And I truly expect that we as

00:18:32.980 group will accept the will of the people. We will maybe lick our wounds a little bit,

00:18:39.460 but as Bruce pointed out, depending on the number, we will either push on and push well,

00:18:45.860 or we'll reconsider our options and what does that actually mean.

00:18:49.940 I also worry about the flip side of things. So we'll react one way, we'll consider what to do,

00:18:57.380 and we'll do that thoughtfully. But what will our adversaries do? What does it mean for Mark Carney?

00:19:04.340 What does it mean for the Liberal Party? What does it mean for the rest of Canada to say,

00:19:09.380 oh, this Alberta independence thing, it's flash in the pan, a bunch of crazy people? Well, maybe 0.95

00:19:15.300 tariffs on oil exports are an okay thing. Maybe further exploitation of Alberta is an okay thing.

00:19:21.700 and so I think we have to pay attention to those things

00:19:25.700 and realize that they may be coming our way

00:19:28.580 and may in fact in the future make our case for us.

00:19:31.780 Now, I personally land on the side of I think we're going to win this

00:19:35.580 but if we don't, I think we will still be respectful

00:19:39.880 and I would ask each and every one of us to continue that.

00:19:42.700 he does paint a picture there because it can be conceded by others as a success

00:19:53.660 to keep going with what they've been doing so that was a little bit of doom there but you're

00:19:58.680 not wrong matt what do you think is going to happen after well first of all whatever happens

00:20:04.440 it won't go away the frustrations the annoyance everything that has led to this point isn't going

00:20:12.140 to magically vaporize the day after option one's voted for but it is important that we are as

00:20:17.280 Dennis said respectful aware that hey this is what we're actually asking for it's a non-binding

00:20:24.220 referendum so you know the premier herself has said this this doesn't totally count so it's not

00:20:29.500 saying oh that's it I'm sorry we're all done it'll never be any different the fundamental problems

00:20:35.740 will continue the feds will still be the feds we will still be struggling and it's probably only

00:20:40.540 going to get worse if miraculously the day after the vote and it's option one everything starts

00:20:46.540 getting better well we've solved the problems maybe they'll have a constitutional convention 0.90

00:20:51.020 and do all the things that we've asked you know and also unicorns will be there and pigs will be

00:20:55.120 flying but one way or another it's not the end for Alberta you don't have to lose hope you don't

00:21:01.480 have to get mad you don't have to burn anything down you got to keep valuing the province and

00:21:06.580 moving forward to see a better tomorrow for our kids because that's what this is all about

00:21:11.540 i actually forgot to do one thing that i wanted to do uh pastor art would you mind uh doing a

00:21:23.160 prayer for us sorry about that that was supposed to be happening my bad

00:21:28.620 on a short leash

00:21:35.820 well let's bow our heads

00:21:38.720 Father God in the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth

00:21:41.340 we bless this gathering

00:21:42.420 we bless Father God this independence movement

00:21:45.040 we pray for your perfect will

00:21:47.360 thank you Father for the willingness

00:21:49.220 of those gentlemen here

00:21:50.760 their willingness to stand for what's right

00:21:53.860 to educate people

00:21:55.100 I just pray Father God that you would open our eyes

00:21:57.560 that you would open our ears open our hearts as well and again we submit this into your perfect

00:22:05.100 will in a mighty name that is above every other name the name of jesus christ of nazareth amen

00:22:11.920 all right and that may conclude our general consensus section of this particular one

00:22:21.580 as now we get into the little bit meaty portion uh we'll do the same thing we'll go down the line

00:22:27.920 but we'll start with matt this time so what happens if we win on uh question or option two

00:22:34.480 on question 10 on october 20th well that's an important one because winning the peace is just

00:22:42.600 as important as winning the war so how we go about expecting the next step matters if we

00:22:49.040 just say hey you know what we're really excited about what's going on let's rush right into the

00:22:53.780 next one try and have it before the next provincial election get it out of the way because we've got

00:22:59.340 momentum uh you may not get the result you want because a lot of the people that are voting in

00:23:05.180 this one even that are going to vote yes they're voting to send a message as a lot of the campaign

00:23:10.400 has said we still need the time to prepare for an actual referendum and we need time to prepare

00:23:17.200 for independence because we want that referendum to succeed so for me i would say if we win be

00:23:24.480 magnanimous in victory and take the time to do it well to rest up ask anybody who's been

00:23:31.520 campaigning we're tired it's been a marathon so rest up take a lap be prepared and then go into

00:23:39.760 the referendum campaign with a suitable amount of preparation because we want to win the one that

00:23:45.360 counts Dennis my concern is this is not an agenda we control it's controlled

00:24:00.180 purity by the UCP party by Danielle and others so we're gonna get the date

00:24:05.180 whatever it is it could be soon could be far I hear arguments for both ideas but

00:24:14.160 Considering my role on the ATC is around planning, transition plan, the budgets for it, setting

00:24:20.140 up and so forth, I have no option but to prepare for the worst scenario.

00:24:26.040 The worst scenario is Danielle calls a referendum immediately for March or April.

00:24:33.200 Because what that really means then, we have very little time to prepare and campaign for

00:24:38.200 that.

00:24:39.200 But most critically, the transition, should we win that referendum, is not something to be taken lightly.

00:24:46.860 That work has to be lit up and started, so the work we've done to this point will need to be reviewed again,

00:24:53.580 enhanced and expanded, broadened to other groups, all of which take time and energy and effort.

00:25:00.420 And as they say, the time is short.

00:25:02.880 Plus, the Christmas silly season is upon us at that point.

00:25:06.940 There's breaks and holidays and so forth.

00:25:09.200 So I think it's a tough scenario.

00:25:11.620 But so are scenarios that last out years, that drag out for years.

00:25:16.420 And in those cases, too, now we have too much time.

00:25:20.440 I've learned in my project management world is that you give a task too much time,

00:25:25.400 they just defer and laze about and are lackadaisical until the last minute anyway.

00:25:31.800 So a lot of me says, let's get going, let's get this done, let's get it moving.

00:25:39.200 Bruce. If option two wins, everything is different. Because for the first time, in any kind of official way, a majority of Albertans have voted not for independence, but have at least expressed the idea that they do not want to stay in Canada.

00:26:02.980 because they rejected option one.

00:26:06.120 Now, remember that this referendum

00:26:09.340 is not legally binding on the government.

00:26:14.520 So there is immediately political work to do.

00:26:18.820 The powers that be in the province

00:26:20.660 will still be opposed to independence,

00:26:24.080 assuming that it's a narrow victory.

00:26:26.620 If it's an overwhelming victory,

00:26:27.780 let's say it's 70%.

00:26:31.780 I'm not saying that it was going to be, just imagine.

00:26:40.780 If it's 70%, then suddenly some of the political actors in the province will see that that's where the parade is going.

00:26:47.780 And they will change where they want to be.

00:26:50.780 But if it's a narrow victory, then most of the political actors will remain steadfastly against it.

00:26:57.780 against it, so there are at least two different kinds of work that need to be started.

00:27:02.700 The first one is political work.

00:27:05.740 Political work to make sure that you get now what you have asked for and earned, which

00:27:11.260 is an actual referendum on independence.

00:27:16.080 That still might never happen because the government is not obligated, still.

00:27:23.160 It is only obligated politically.

00:27:26.840 And so that political pressure has got to be applied.

00:27:30.500 It will happen only if they feel that it is politically inevitable.

00:27:35.400 So that work has to be done.

00:27:36.800 And number two, there's a lot of background work now that needs to be done in preparation

00:27:41.880 for that referendum and what happens afterwards should you win it.

00:27:47.080 And some of that work has begun with thoughts about transition, thoughts about constitutions

00:27:53.220 and so on.

00:27:54.220 But now you've got a real thing.

00:27:56.180 Now you've got a real window of opportunity to do the thing we've all been talking about

00:28:01.620 for a long time.

00:28:03.700 And so that work, yeah, we should take a break and recover, but that work needs to commence.

00:28:10.740 And I don't know when this next real referendum would take place.

00:28:15.900 I'm inclined to agree with Matthew that it would be good if it was a little bit further

00:28:19.940 out.

00:28:20.940 I'm not champing at the bit to see it in the spring.

00:28:25.500 I think that's too fast.

00:28:27.420 I think it should be after the provincial election,

00:28:29.700 at least, but whenever it happens to be,

00:28:33.660 this kind of work needs to be done,

00:28:35.540 first and foremost, to ensure that you get one,

00:28:39.120 and number two, that when it does happen,

00:28:40.940 you're ready for it.

00:28:47.660 So what I heard them say is we've got to take a break.

00:28:51.100 Yeah, so I'm gonna announce it now.

00:28:54.080 I'm going to take two or three hours off on October 20th and then get back to work.

00:29:00.800 Don't bother trying to contact me during those two or three hours.

00:29:05.440 Because we still have a lot of work to do after that.

00:29:08.820 Same with Max as well.

00:29:11.000 Okay, so now that we're at the next referendum, the binding referendum, wherever that may be,

00:29:16.880 let's say we win that one.

00:29:19.100 So I'm going to start with Dennis, and then we'll go to Bruce and then Matt.

00:29:23.280 What happens after that one?

00:29:25.280 Do we go straight into your plans with the transition?

00:29:27.940 Something else happens first.

00:29:29.320 What are your thoughts about after the binding referendum success?

00:29:35.620 Well, that's a really fun question to think about.

00:29:40.000 And been doing a lot of thinking about that over recent months.

00:29:44.300 The biggest thing to keep in mind, though, is who is the party,

00:29:47.480 who is the group in power the day after we win that second referendum?

00:29:52.520 It's the government of the province of Alberta.

00:29:55.920 They are the only ones with an elected mandate, the only ones that are there.

00:29:59.900 So our plan, for example, transition plan, builds on that and says,

00:30:03.760 if these guys go off in splendid isolation and pretend they can do everything

00:30:08.000 the way they've been doing things up to this point, that's a very bad thing.

00:30:12.820 But if they are wise enough to pull in people who have been doing the work

00:30:18.300 to figure out how this must be done,

00:30:21.560 what things have to be done first,

00:30:23.540 what things need to be done last,

00:30:25.600 which things don't we care about,

00:30:27.640 then they will do that preparation with a broader mandate,

00:30:31.960 more capability, and different mind debts.

00:30:35.140 So that's what we hope for.

00:30:37.020 That's what we wrote into the plan documents we put together,

00:30:39.920 and we expect the government of Alberta to do that.

00:30:43.360 Now, I'll tell you right now, I am by nature an optimist.

00:30:47.060 I tend to think ultimately people, when faced with tough choices, make the right choice.

00:30:53.060 So I like to think the government will do that, but I have to be aware enough that that may not be the case.

00:30:59.040 So we, again, as independence people have to keep an eye on that and say,

00:31:03.020 no, you are not going to go off on your own, let's say it's Danielle Smith,

00:31:08.360 and negotiate all by yourself and draw up a constitution all by yourself,

00:31:14.140 do a transition all by yourself you need more and that's where the debate comes in because I don't

00:31:21.160 think we will have luxury of determining our new constitution getting it approved getting a

00:31:29.280 government under elected underneath it and then in fact that new government under the new

00:31:35.120 constitution would do the negotiation I think the runtime is too long I think you have to move

00:31:40.900 quicker than that and that's why my thinking is there's parallel tracks one

00:31:46.120 track is to start the negotiation with Canada on the key elements

00:31:51.620 start working those the logistics of leaving Canada and in parallel we start

00:31:57.780 a plan to develop approve and ultimately implement our new constitution so two

00:32:05.000 tracks but starting right after we win the referendum

00:32:10.900 So the day after a successful independence referendum, just to be clear about this, legally, constitutionally, nothing has changed.

00:32:25.020 Alberta is still a province.

00:32:27.180 Danielle Smith is still the premier.

00:32:28.700 If she's in the office before the referendum, she's still there after the referendum.

00:32:33.940 And keep in mind that legally, the government of Alberta is, as of this moment, not legally obliged to honor the results of that referendum either.

00:32:50.560 That's what their amendment to the Referendum Act says.

00:32:55.540 So you still have a political problem.

00:32:58.140 Even if the majority of Albertans approve the referendum, if you still have a party

00:33:06.020 in power that is opposed to it, you've still got a political problem.

00:33:12.960 You have to convince them it is in their interests to carry through instead of doing essentially

00:33:19.240 what the government of the UK did after the Brexit vote, which is to fudge the whole thing.

00:33:25.660 Here's one of the ways it could be fudged.

00:33:28.820 Daniel Smith could take that mandate and go to Ottawa and negotiate with Canada and come

00:33:35.380 back and say, good news, folks.

00:33:39.100 We don't need to leave.

00:33:40.600 I have policy concessions.

00:33:46.600 Peace in our time, right, than to do a Neville Chamberlain.

00:33:55.060 can't happen. That can't be allowed to happen. And here's the way I think it should be done.

00:34:01.200 Now, of course, the people in power are the people in power. They have control of the

00:34:06.300 agenda. They have the control of the decisions. And the only leverage you have against them

00:34:10.020 is political. One of the ways to leverage political power is to establish expectations

00:34:16.380 on the part of the people so that the people in power don't dare go against them. One of

00:34:23.780 the ways to do that I think is to my order of operations is not quite the

00:34:29.620 same as Dennis's I think the people like Danielle Smith and her team who go to

00:34:35.480 negotiate with Ottawa have to have a clear set of instructions from the

00:34:43.900 people about what those negotiations are going to consist of so here's my

00:34:48.320 But here's my difficulty, if you do the negotiations first, you know, they run off after the referendum

00:34:56.000 to Ottawa to do the negotiations, they can negotiate anything they want.

00:35:02.580 So first, I would like an expectation that Alberta will decide through a constitutional

00:35:09.720 convention or whatever other means to decide amongst you what kind of a country you want

00:35:16.700 to have? What kind of a constitution do you want to have? What are the premises and the

00:35:22.020 principles of the country? If you do that, then the negotiating team will have its marching

00:35:29.880 orders and will not have room to reach a deal that is contrary to those instructions. If

00:35:36.280 you do it the other way around, you do not know what you're going to get back. Now, this

00:35:44.400 This might be tricky, but it's going to take a little bit of time, and people have to be

00:35:49.580 patient, and there has to be a process.

00:35:52.540 But one of the possibilities that I'm sympathetic to is you engage in some kind of a constitutional

00:36:00.480 convention first before negotiations, because that will set the fences.

00:36:07.480 What you do not want is to show up in Ottawa and for the federal government to say, well,

00:36:13.500 are the things that you're obliged to do, obliged to take on, because it's in the Constitution.

00:36:21.980 And what they mean is, it's in our Constitution.

00:36:26.420 The Alberta team has to be ready and prepared to say, that is your Constitution.

00:36:33.140 Our independence is a repudiation of your constitutional order.

00:36:39.840 We are establishing a different kind of constitution, here's what it looks like.

00:36:44.980 We are negotiating in accordance with our new constitution.

00:36:48.720 This is what it will be, and so those now are the terms of the negotiation we're going

00:36:54.120 to have.

00:36:55.120 It's got to be done that way, I think, otherwise you may not get what you want, even though

00:37:01.020 you have jumped through all these hoops.

00:37:09.840 Matt and there's a king involved in your plan

00:37:14.160 Yeah, doing just what he's supposed to do which is stay the heck out of politics

00:37:18.680 So oh, yes, that's right. Hello

00:37:23.160 We have to be practical on this one, too

00:37:25.440 I think I'm the I'm the voice of I would love to see you know

00:37:28.680 Constitutional conventions and everything right out the gate as we said the day after a successful

00:37:33.920 successful referendum the same party and the same leader is still in power now that's why it's

00:37:40.020 important to have an election before the referendum so we don't get the NDP in because that's the worst

00:37:45.160 nightmare in the world is to have Nahed Nenshi be the one that goes to Ottawa to negotiate what

00:37:50.080 the future of Alberta will look like because you know we'll have nationalized everything and we'll

00:37:54.400 all be eating the bugs but it's very important that we make sure that we do put that political

00:38:02.380 expectation in place but day one they need to start the negotiations there is a clock on this

00:38:08.140 stuff because uncertainty costs it costs in jobs it costs in lives it costs in frustration and

00:38:15.340 uncertainty and we want this to be stable so you look around the world you see where countries

00:38:21.340 have become independent and there's a transition period that sometimes can last 10 20 years we have

00:38:27.660 to get used to that there's the initial separation and then there's figuring out what the country

00:38:33.240 looks like and the best way to do it and at the end of the day the way that it's going to happen

00:38:38.200 practically speaking is the same rules are going to apply the day after the referendum as applied

00:38:44.200 the day before but once we're independent we don't have the supreme court anymore we don't

00:38:49.880 have trudeau's constitution anymore so we can say to our politicians now we're going to talk about

00:38:55.840 what the future looks like once we've separated from Canada. And you know what, if they want to

00:39:01.320 say, well, constitutionally, you have to do this and this. Well, fine, we can do that in the short

00:39:06.360 term, sure. But once we're an independent country, Canada doesn't get to tell us what to do.

00:39:11.740 And their Supreme Court has no authority. And they have no ability to say, well, you promised

00:39:16.280 to do that. No, no, no. We do a transition. We get out. If they're going to play rough with us,

00:39:21.100 if they're not going to negotiate fairly the supreme court of canada which will still be their

00:39:26.240 boss told them that they have to negotiate in good faith if they don't do it all bets are off

00:39:32.220 on the other end so we have this model from around the world from history we're not the first people

00:39:38.660 to make a new country out of another country and we have to look at how those ones did it

00:39:43.480 and realize it matters that you're politically involved it matters who's leading the negotiations

00:39:49.900 As Bruce said, Brexit, you had a party that didn't believe in it, that wanted to stay in the EU running the negotiations.

00:39:59.740 Surprisingly, it didn't go well.

00:40:01.380 So we do need to have leadership.

00:40:03.600 Now I'm going to say the first thing that will get stuff thrown at me. 0.84

00:40:06.260 I actually have a higher opinion of Danielle Smith than some. 0.99

00:40:09.940 I think she wants the best for Albertans. 0.92

00:40:12.480 We can question whether she's on the right track on those things.

00:40:15.340 but i think if we get a majority in a referendum she's not going to say well i don't want to do it

00:40:21.560 she's actually thank you thank you jeff she's actually going to be getting in front of the

00:40:26.160 parade and taking albertans where they want to go if for no other reason than she wants to keep her

00:40:31.020 job so don't be too afraid that if you stand up and vote the politicians are going to say oh no

00:40:37.980 we can't because albertans are not known for just laying taking it which is what this whole

00:40:43.180 referendum process shows all right so we've got a bit of an order of

00:40:53.080 operation from each of them and you kind of touched on my next question so I'll

00:40:57.340 save you to the end in case there's anything you want to add but what kind

00:41:00.700 of leadership not necessarily what leader but what kind of leadership will

00:41:04.440 give us the best opportunity to have a successful result under your ideal plan

00:41:09.700 Let's start with Bruce.

00:41:16.820 What kind of leadership? Well, I think, I mean, I'm not sure how to answer that other

00:41:23.100 than the obvious way, which is you need somebody who's in favor of independence.

00:41:28.320 Going back to the Brexit example, it's crazy to have somebody in power leading your negotiations

00:41:36.320 who doesn't really want to do it or who believes that the answer on the referendum should have

00:41:42.340 been otherwise. I mean, that's just asking for trouble. And if you do have that kind

00:41:47.000 of person, I mean, there's a lot of potential trouble in the timing here. You know, who

00:41:52.120 happens to be in power at the time that the scheduled referendum comes up? I mean, if

00:41:56.740 it's the NDP, then you get a disaster. But even if it's Danielle Smith, given the position 0.98

00:42:02.220 that she's taken all the way along, the ideal thing would be to change your leadership first

00:42:09.180 to somebody who's in favor of independence and then have your referendum so that you

00:42:13.880 are confident that the powers, that the people who are empowered to carry that mandate out

00:42:22.500 are the ones who want that mandate.

00:42:25.500 But it's quite possible you won't have that kind of combination.

00:42:32.220 And if you don't, that gets me back to the point I made before, which is whoever that is has got to have marching orders from the people that they can't afford to breach.

00:42:45.640 If you don't have that, you've got a lot of trouble coming down the pike, potentially.

00:42:51.280 So, again, there's a lot of political work to do here, and leadership probably is first and foremost.

00:42:58.320 yeah that's where i was going with that because as we saw or seen john bolton pointed this out

00:43:06.340 on his episode today they're all in bed together the entire establishment's in bed together so who

00:43:12.280 are we sending to ottawa to negotiate who's on the other end they're already on the same side

00:43:16.940 so i think it's very fitting that bruce is talking about we need a leader whose

00:43:21.980 sole purpose is to make sure that we're fighting for independence so the same question to you

00:43:27.000 Dennis, what kind of leadership would you like to see, kind of leading the transition the way you see it might work?

00:43:35.500 Not necessarily a leadership type.

00:43:37.760 I think we put way too much thinking into some single individual who is all singing, all dancing, with intergalactic knowledge of everything.

00:43:49.040 I think it doesn't work.

00:43:51.360 In large companies, large projects, many of which I have run,

00:43:56.260 you never have a single guy.

00:43:58.540 There's a group of people working together of like mind.

00:44:02.180 Bruce is 100% correct.

00:44:04.240 You cannot have people on the team that say,

00:44:06.180 really bad idea, let's sabotage things.

00:44:08.880 No, they go away.

00:44:11.100 And that team of people has to work together

00:44:14.020 where they actually sort of say, I bring this perspective.

00:44:17.440 I'll take the three of us, Matt, Bruce, and myself.

00:44:21.120 We disagree passionately.

00:44:22.700 Over dinner tonight, we're pounding the table and jumping up and down and creating a fuss and so forth.

00:44:28.380 But, you know, all of it was with the right outcome in mind.

00:44:32.960 We agree on the outcome.

00:44:34.300 We're just debating how to get there.

00:44:36.180 So that's what that team needs to be.

00:44:38.420 And that's why we see some combination of existing political powers,

00:44:43.620 some combination of people from the independence movement,

00:44:46.500 and certainly teams of experts required to serve that group

00:44:53.100 to bring them the information they need and do the work.

00:44:56.040 I'd also like to make one other distinction between the getting there and being there.

00:45:01.300 The transition process, getting from winning the referendum

00:45:04.080 to the point where our first government sits under our new constitution

00:45:08.760 is a different kind of beast than the ongoing job,

00:45:13.940 the 10-year job of building a country, changing the institutions,

00:45:20.120 changing the laws to match our constitution and so forth.

00:45:23.520 And I honestly believe that is where the idea of an inspired leader comes from.

00:45:28.540 Then you need that person or a small number of people

00:45:31.460 that actually have a vision for the country

00:45:33.900 and have the means and the intellect and the capability to push it there.

00:45:38.540 So that's a different kettle of fish.

00:45:40.320 It's a longer-term one.

00:45:41.460 Short-term, I think it's a team of people.

00:45:43.300 all of like mind.

00:45:50.360 Can you imagine a divorce

00:45:51.900 where the party that doesn't want

00:45:53.880 the divorce picks both lawyers?

00:45:56.740 That would be a very interesting process 0.95

00:45:58.940 and that's what would happen

00:46:00.120 if you had leadership

00:46:01.240 that was in line without the people.

00:46:04.140 Matt, you want to add to this?

00:46:06.100 You kind of touched on it a bit,

00:46:07.360 but if you want to add.

00:46:08.620 What kind of leadership?

00:46:09.980 Ralph Klein?

00:46:11.180 That would do.

00:46:11.680 somebody who's uh knows how to use hand signals when appropriate not that i always approve of

00:46:18.000 those things but you know we have a model again for brexit david cameron campaigned against brexit

00:46:25.840 and he did the right thing and he resigned as leader afterwards because he had compromised

00:46:33.320 himself the problem was the 37 other people underneath him didn't also resign they just

00:46:38.920 stepped up into place and went the other way but that's an important piece if you're the leader of

00:46:43.860 the province good lead that's actually what you we pay you for if you lead against the way that

00:46:51.260 the vote went then your responsibility is to step aside and let somebody else step into place because

00:46:58.460 yeah if we have a successful referendum we need somebody like ralph used to be who was alberta

00:47:04.700 alberta alberta and then in his spare time he was alberta and that's the kind of leadership

00:47:09.900 that makes a difference and as dennis said it's not the single person showboat who's got to have

00:47:15.020 all the attention on themselves it's not the lone wolf it's somebody who knows how to find the right

00:47:20.220 team who has the right political connections this is the uncomfortable part guys politics is a team

00:47:25.980 sport and you do have to know people like most things in life it's about who you know not

00:47:30.940 necessarily what you know so we need somebody who's capable of working with the existing power

00:47:36.460 structures and the existing political structures if you have some guy from outside sounds all good

00:47:42.380 he might even get elected but guess what you get into the legislature and you don't have the support

00:47:46.780 of your people go back to brexit they changed their leaders like they changed their stocks

00:47:52.060 so we have to have someone who can draw support from albertans support politically and who is

00:47:58.060 above all for Alberta full stop all right so we'll go to you next Dennis and we're

00:48:10.120 going to talk a bit more about the transition plan and I kind of want to

00:48:13.420 remind the audience that Mike Tyson says all the best laid out plans are gone

00:48:17.440 once you're punched in the nose so does your plan have some contingencies in

00:48:22.360 place if the other side is very difficult during the process I know

00:48:25.960 you're an optimistic guy let's try and put on a bit of a pessimistic hat on

00:48:29.500 this so the the public version of the transition plan has behind every page

00:48:42.040 another four pages of material written frequently in acronyms and filled full

00:48:48.820 of numbers and complex terms and so forth in those pages that are not made

00:48:55.580 public to do the support and the working papers for the public versions we

00:49:00.800 actually went through scenarios we had one we called happy path everyone agrees

00:49:06.620 everyone's agreeable yeah we debate and fight but you know we're sort of

00:49:10.700 getting along the second one is the most likely where Canada is very grumpy and

00:49:16.520 unhappy they're not being especially compliant but we do have international

00:49:21.440 recognition and that supports us and the third scenario is a difficult one where

00:49:27.000 we're basically fighting alone against an adversarial Canada I'm not going to

00:49:31.700 go through the outcomes of each one of those let's put it this way some things

00:49:35.180 are unchanged some things are more difficult in the various scenarios but

00:49:39.500 the reality is all of them are doable in all three scenarios all of them have

00:49:46.340 challenges in all three scenarios. There are things that could go wrong,

00:49:51.840 negotiations that could fail, not necessarily with Canada, but also with

00:49:56.960 other nations. We need approval from certain international bodies for things.

00:50:01.160 If they decide to decline or take their time or outright reject us, yeah, we got

00:50:06.680 a problem we have to deal with, but that's what the work is. None of these

00:50:10.880 things are impossible and we have the techniques documented for how to

00:50:15.500 to approach them and approaches that we think will be very successful and to

00:50:20.220 build on Jason's point of view is you know I use the one no no plan of battle

00:50:25.760 survives first first contact with the enemy so we would adjust that's why you

00:50:30.620 need a team of people that's we need to focus on the outcome and even say yep we

00:50:35.960 ran into a problem with this or that but to deal with it so short answer we have

00:50:40.160 built it in we've considered a lot as much as we can at this stage of the

00:50:44.540 process. Once we're in the actual heat of transitioning, yeah, it's going to change.

00:50:50.900 There'll be some things that'll be difficult to do, and there'll be a lot of things that you'd

00:50:53.880 be surprised at, just how easy they are, how straightforward they are. Most people don't

00:50:58.700 know most of what we need is already done by the province in one form or another. So

00:51:04.280 it's not rocket surgery, folks. It's things that need to get done.

00:51:08.320 so we don't have rockets going to Mars no not right off the bat okay so we're gonna go to Bruce

00:51:20.060 next so Bruce let's say your order of operations happens you get a leadership that's for independence

00:51:26.380 there's a constitutional convention provides some of the guidelines and says this is what the

00:51:30.400 country is going to look like and they go all the way to Ottawa and start the conversation

00:51:34.240 and it's hostile.

00:51:36.260 What does that look like to you

00:51:37.800 and what would be a potential outcome

00:51:39.720 given the current laws of Canada like Supreme Court?

00:51:45.860 Well, the big picture is actually pretty simple.

00:51:49.360 If you give your team their marching orders

00:51:52.680 and they go to Ottawa and they honour that mandate

00:51:56.880 and you get a hostile reception from Ottawa

00:52:00.420 and they negotiate in bad faith,

00:52:02.120 Well, now it is the government of Canada that is not doing what the Supreme Court described.

00:52:10.120 And at that point, the best play for Alberta is to unilaterally declare yourself to be independent.

00:52:18.120 The rationale is we were doing what was described in the Supreme Court decision, 1998 reference case.

00:52:25.120 Canada has not, so all bets are off.

00:52:30.120 We are going.

00:52:31.500 One way or the other, we passed a referendum.

00:52:34.200 That's what the Supreme Court required.

00:52:36.480 Clear question, clear majority.

00:52:38.940 We reached that threshold.

00:52:40.540 We are going.

00:52:43.260 And, candidate, you will either negotiate with us in good faith, as the Supreme Court said was proper,

00:52:49.580 or if you do not, we are out of here.

00:52:52.980 Goodbye.

00:52:53.360 Goodbye.

00:52:53.540 right now there are going to be some detailed things that are going to be difficult in that

00:53:02.180 scenario if you get international recognition which i think is probably a good bet

00:53:08.100 even so there is a lot of canada still in alberta canada the federal government runs some things

00:53:17.340 that are in Alberta. So you do have some difficult, practical questions about how that's going

00:53:25.020 to work. How do you get the federal government out of Alberta now? And how do you get the

00:53:32.460 new government of Alberta to act in accordance with your new constitution as opposed to doing

00:53:42.340 what it is they're used to do, used to doing, right? So here's the danger in a transition

00:53:49.780 plan. To be clear, I have a tremendous amount of admiration and respect for the work that

00:53:55.720 Dennis and Keith Wilson and the Transition Council have done on this plan. But there

00:54:05.700 There is a danger in it, and that is, the more seamlessly you succeed in transferring

00:54:16.040 or transitioning from federal control of something to provincial control of something, you end

00:54:24.640 up in the province with the same kind of state you have right now.

00:54:32.460 Sure, it's controlled by Alberta politicians instead of federal politicians.

00:54:39.780 Who cares?

00:54:41.640 That's not a real difference.

00:54:43.460 What you still have is a managerial state like you have right now.

00:54:51.860 So the real challenge in transitioning is to transition out of having a managerial state

00:54:59.460 into a situation where you don't.

00:55:02.100 the state is not doing very much at all for the people. It's one thing to try and figure

00:55:11.420 out the mechanics of transferring this function that the feds do to this office in the provincial

00:55:18.360 government. I mean, that's difficult enough. But the real task is to say this function

00:55:24.280 done by the federal government should not be done at all.

00:55:31.600 And so we want to prevent your new Alberta government from doing it.

00:55:36.740 So the question is, how do you keep things stable and not chaotic,

00:55:41.880 and yet do it with the realization that where you're actually trying to travel

00:55:47.700 is to something that is, in fact, radically different

00:55:54.340 from where you are right now.

00:55:58.220 Because for my money, that is the purpose of doing all of this.

00:56:04.060 If you don't do that,

00:56:06.220 if you just reproduce the kind of systems that you have right now

00:56:11.820 under the thumb of the federal government

00:56:14.360 and just transfer them to your new Alberta government,

00:56:19.240 you've accomplished almost nothing

00:56:22.040 because your world will essentially be the same.

00:56:26.420 Yeah, you'll have more ability to,

00:56:28.580 your vote will count in terms of the people

00:56:31.240 that are elected to the offices that govern over you,

00:56:34.160 but they will still govern over you.

00:56:37.160 And the point is, in my opinion,

00:56:39.240 to try and change that model in some significant way.

00:56:46.360 So there's a danger in the simple idea of transitioning

00:56:51.040 if your only objective is to make things smooth and stable.

00:56:55.580 You're actually looking for the change.

00:57:05.620 So to be clear, for your money, there should be radical change?

00:57:09.240 i think that's a fair bet okay for your money his book is in the back which explains that radical

00:57:17.480 change so if you want to see what he's talking about there we have that back there and you'll

00:57:21.180 sign it for everybody all right so matt alberta goes out to ottawa and they pull off their glove

00:57:28.260 and slap us in the face what happens under your your plan there what you envision so again this

00:57:35.480 is why it's so important to have an Albertan leader who's for Albertans. At the end of the

00:57:40.700 day, if the majority of Albertans say we're leaving, no amount of constitutional hijinks,

00:57:48.240 parliamentary committees, or Supreme Court decisions can say no, you're not. They probably

00:57:54.780 will try. Now, I want to point out a difference, and I want to make sure people get it. We don't

00:58:00.280 like Ottawa. We don't necessarily dislike the rest of the people in the rest of Canada because

00:58:06.340 there's a lot of decent regular people. We have to believe that they will be putting political

00:58:11.300 pressure on their leaders not to screw the country over because if they get in a fight with us it's

00:58:17.620 going to hurt both sides. The other side of that being we've just seen how you know the Prime

00:58:23.660 Minister is totally willing to tank a deal with our biggest trading partner because it gets him

00:58:27.340 couple of points in the polls so there will be a question as to whether canada will decide to

00:58:33.100 punish us or work with us but if a majority of albertans want to go they have to let us go

00:58:41.740 but that's the big piece we have to be ready for this to take a long time everybody who's saying

00:58:46.460 oh it'll just be a snap and everything will be done no it's going to be brutal and painful

00:58:50.540 even if canada works with us negotiations take time you're dealing with you know we're talking

00:58:55.580 about air traffic control at dinner you're dealing with a hundred fiddly little things that you never

00:59:01.100 even knew existed and so it's going to take time to work through all those things and our objectives

00:59:07.500 and their objectives will be different even if they're negotiating in good faith and we are

00:59:14.140 it's negotiations when you have the divorce you have to decide you know who gets the old rusty

00:59:19.420 boat in the back. So we're going to have to work through all those things. If though Ottawa decides

00:59:26.260 to be difficult, they lose the legitimacy of negotiation. And like Bruce said, there is a

00:59:33.080 place to say, okay, if you guys aren't going to play, then we're going to go on our own and we're

00:59:38.120 going to leave it to the international community to adjudicate on our behalf. Will they recognize us

00:59:43.980 as an independent country or will they not and that's the process that many countries around

00:59:49.880 the world have gone through and we happen to have friends that would probably be happy for one

00:59:55.660 Israel would be perfectly happy to recognize a new state because guess what Carney decided that

01:00:02.640 even if the state didn't exist he was going to recognize it so we have friends in the world

01:00:08.160 who want to see freedom don't panic and don't fear it will take time it's not going to be easy

01:00:17.100 but at the end of the day if a majority of albertans say they're gonna go we're gonna go

01:00:23.940 he says don't fear as i get into this next question so sorry we'll start with dennis

01:00:35.440 We've been talking about a little bit of hostility,

01:00:37.700 but what if they start to retaliate?

01:00:40.080 For example, turning off things like banking

01:00:42.440 or some other things that are very, it's going to hurt us.

01:00:46.460 What are your thoughts there if they start to go down that path?

01:00:51.500 Plan, plan, plan.

01:00:54.300 Failing to plan is planning to fail.

01:00:57.000 So we looked at the things that are truly impactful,

01:01:04.080 And they're all public knowledge.

01:01:05.660 There's nothing secret here.

01:01:08.280 Matt mentioned NAV Canada.

01:01:10.300 NAV Canada, most people don't even know, exists.

01:01:13.180 It runs air traffic control.

01:01:15.540 It's a private business.

01:01:17.180 It runs air traffic control out of Edmonton

01:01:19.100 for much of this area of this continent.

01:01:22.780 If the government of Canada somehow said,

01:01:24.440 no, you can't have NAV Canada,

01:01:27.660 we have no air traffic control.

01:01:29.260 People can't fly in.

01:01:30.500 People can't fly out.

01:01:32.120 So what do you do in that case? That's a tough one. There's no easy answer to that.

01:01:36.840 But the thing we have to look at is two sides of the equation.

01:01:41.440 One is, yeah, Canada might be unpleasant and try and do things like I just mentioned.

01:01:47.520 The reality is, think of how the international community would look at such an action.

01:01:54.820 American planes fly over Alberta to get to destinations in the U.S.

01:01:59.860 They can't do that anymore, they'd have to deviate far west or far east.

01:02:06.600 People want to fly in Alberta for various reasons, think of the oil supply.

01:02:10.380 Americans want to come here to discuss terms, they want to fly in, how do they get in? 0.91

01:02:14.680 Europeans want to come here to discuss terms, Chinese want to get here, how do we do that

01:02:19.440 if NAV Canada fails? 0.98

01:02:21.560 So you look at the likelihood of any of these really severe actions and there's consequences

01:02:26.860 that are immediate and painful for Canada as well.

01:02:30.840 So I like to think that as much as Mr. Carney might,

01:02:34.800 after a few bottles of wine, too many, decide,

01:02:38.180 oh, I'm going to shut off NAV Canada or shut off banking

01:02:40.740 or whatever the case might be.

01:02:42.440 And then in the morning when he wakes up, he's going to say,

01:02:45.020 really bad idea.

01:02:46.840 It's going to hurt us more than it hurts them.

01:02:49.500 So I think we're going to end up with not happy path.

01:02:53.300 I think we're going to end up with a practical Canada that says,

01:02:55.720 you know, we've got to make this work.

01:02:58.740 Geography has made us neighbors forever. 0.92

01:03:02.580 If we do dumb things, Alberta has leverage as well. 0.80

01:03:08.620 And they will use that leverage because guess what? 0.56

01:03:12.320 When you're backed into a corner, you do what you have to do.

01:03:15.700 So I think wiser heads will prevail.

01:03:18.180 I've said this for some time now.

01:03:20.180 Wiser heads will prevail.

01:03:22.080 People sit down and say, okay,

01:03:23.280 you guys can have access to NAV Canada, here's the terms, here's what's going to cost you,

01:03:28.320 fair and reasonable, and things keep on flying the way they are now. Same with telephony,

01:03:33.940 same with banking, same with whatever. So I think the real disaster scenarios are just scenarios.

01:03:42.260 There's no basis in reality that those are likely to happen. So maybe, again, people have

01:03:48.360 accused me of being optimistic, but I'm optimistic with fair cause, because I know that both

01:03:56.940 parties need this to succeed, and therefore both parties will be at some level reasonable.

01:04:06.460 We'll get to you at the end there.

01:04:08.680 You just give me that sound.

01:04:12.560 By the way, if you're having dinner with Bruce and there's a conversation going on,

01:04:16.160 You know, things are going to get fun when he's quiet for like five minutes because he's thinking and he's getting ready.

01:04:22.160 Matt, we'll go to you next and then we'll come to Bruce.

01:04:25.060 Quick question for you, Matt.

01:04:26.580 Under your plan, are we still a Commonwealth country?

01:04:30.780 I think so.

01:04:32.140 The Commonwealth of Nations is very good.

01:04:34.220 Okay, so would the king or the Commonwealth intervene if it starts to get really hostile or if they start to retaliate?

01:04:40.980 That's one of the pieces.

01:04:42.000 That's the kind of thing that we have the monarchy for.

01:04:44.520 as much as people may not understand it, we have a backstop where if the government doesn't do its job,

01:04:51.340 then the Crown can actually say, hey, hold on a second.

01:04:53.980 And they've done it in the past.

01:04:56.000 And when it comes to retaliation, it is a pain, which is why before we jump into the next referendum, we need to be ready.

01:05:06.340 You know, Maggie Thatcher, when it came time to deal with the unions, before she tackled the unions,

01:05:12.080 she knew they would go on strike.

01:05:13.560 so she had them work overtime and gather a whole year's stock of coal so that then when they went

01:05:20.480 on strike she said cool have fun and she was able to beat them if we're not prepared with all the

01:05:28.160 things like having the transition planning having much autonomy in place as possible before we go

01:05:34.460 into a referendum and we're trying to do this on the back end we're trying to catch up or worse

01:05:39.980 having a government that doesn't want to do it that's supposed to be building all these systems

01:05:44.220 we will have a problem we don't want to replicate canada now i love the westminster system what we

01:05:49.820 have now is a french republic wearing westminster as a skin suit that's different i like the system

01:05:56.000 that we have because it's a thousand years old and has been developed and built over that time

01:06:00.780 and it did very well until pierre trudeau decided he didn't want to have it anymore and gave us this

01:06:06.880 silly thing we have now. So to use the skill or use the system that we have to build something

01:06:14.620 protects us against retaliation. The government, even though they think so, the feds aren't actually

01:06:20.460 dictators and they can't just do whatever they please. So we have to expect that they're going

01:06:26.160 to have to work with us to some level. And just like has been said, we have leverage too. If they

01:06:33.480 decide that it has to be painful, then okay, fine, but two can play that game, and we have to be

01:06:41.400 willing to play that game. Anybody who says anything's off the table, no, it's not. That's

01:06:47.060 how negotiations work. You never say, oh, yeah, and by the way, I promise I'll just be very gentle

01:06:52.660 with you and very nice, and I'll fold with whatever you say. Somebody walks into that negotiation,

01:06:57.500 they get what they want. We go into the negotiation saying everything is on the table, and if you

01:07:03.420 guys aren't willing to play nice with us if you're willing to hurt us to spite us that can happen

01:07:09.580 both ways all right now we're ready for boost on this question so what if canada and this reference

01:07:19.880 some of you will get it and some of the younger people may not but what if they try to boil our

01:07:23.700 bunnies. What do we do? And they may very well. I admire Dennis' optimism, and I do

01:07:35.840 agree with both him and Matthew that if you're playing by the rules, Alberta has a lot of

01:07:44.520 leverage. It probably has more leverage than Canada does. It holds more cards than Canada

01:07:51.720 does. And so all things being equal, if you're playing by the rules, this actually ought

01:07:58.440 to go fine. But that's not what's going to happen. Because Alberta is necessary to the

01:08:12.040 ongoing project of confederation. You guys are the cash cow of confederation. You are

01:08:21.440 Your departure represents an existential crisis for this country.

01:08:27.460 This country might not survive your departure.

01:08:33.560 And if we think that all you have to do is pass a referendum, and they say, they're going

01:08:39.600 to say, oh, oh well, okay, way you go, here's your NAFCAD.

01:08:47.120 That's not the way it's going to happen, folks.

01:08:50.660 They are going to do anything that they can inside or outside the rules of the game to

01:08:59.620 make sure that this does not happen.

01:09:04.940 This is not just a negotiation.

01:09:08.260 This is a political revolution.

01:09:12.940 And just because you're obeying the rules as suggested by the Supreme Court does not

01:09:19.340 mean that the other side is going to acquiesce because you are threatening everything that

01:09:25.340 they stand for. Your presence is necessary for the continuation of their socialist paradise.

01:09:35.020 If you leave, that is in doubt. So they cannot afford to let you leave. Now, what exactly will

01:09:43.180 they do to prevent it? I don't know. Anything they can think of. And yes, that means you

01:09:56.660 got to be prepared. You got to do your homework. You got to make sure that your negotiating

01:10:02.180 team has got a mandate that's clear and is ready to deal with all the things that may

01:10:07.960 be thrown at it, at the table, in good faith or in bad, at the table or outside it. So be ready.

01:10:19.240 Be ready for a whole lot of hurt. Because if you mean this, you've got to be willing to accept

01:10:28.260 and embrace the idea that this is going to be a fight. Now, I don't mean a violent fight,

01:10:32.900 but I mean a struggle in the sense that the parties and especially the federal government

01:10:42.660 is not going to just do what we think that it ought to and acquiesce in the project that you

01:10:51.580 have announced for after all a part of their country that's the way they're going to see it

01:11:02.900 So if they go elbows up, sticks up, we go gloves off?

01:11:09.900 Is that what you're saying there?

01:11:11.900 Maybe.

01:11:12.900 We'll start with Bruce on this one.

01:11:14.900 So whether the Constitutional Convention is before or after the negotiations isn't really

01:11:18.900 the question.

01:11:19.900 The question is how would a Constitutional Convention kind of be structured and who would

01:11:23.900 be involved in that?

01:11:25.900 Let's just be clear about the legal situation again here first.

01:11:34.580 The constitutional convention that might be called is going to be under the control of

01:11:41.320 the people who are in power in Alberta at the time.

01:11:45.100 So if it is Danielle Smith, for example, and her cabinet, they will be the ones to decide

01:11:50.700 whether to hold one, who will be there, how it will be conducted, and what the outcome will be,

01:11:56.200 how it will be determined. But if we're going to ask this question ideally, like how would we like

01:12:03.520 to see it? Well, it's going to be a different kind of stages. I mean, one of the ideas that we've

01:12:11.920 talked about is the idea that the convention should include a number of delegates, like

01:12:19.000 Citizens get delegates.

01:12:20.460 So it's not just the political powers that be

01:12:23.240 sit in a room like, those of you who are as old as I am

01:12:27.140 may remember the endless series of first ministers' meetings

01:12:32.000 leading up to the patriation of the 1982 Constitution.

01:12:35.780 That's not a scenario that I want to repeat.

01:12:37.860 There's a whole bunch of elites deciding

01:12:40.200 the political future of the country.

01:12:42.600 The alternative is to have delegates

01:12:45.620 that are selected in some way by each region of the country who sit in a room, maybe not

01:12:52.620 without political leaders and people who know something about constitutional law and about

01:13:00.320 history and so on, some resource people to make recommendations, to answer questions,

01:13:06.240 to make suggestions about what the Constitution ought to look like.

01:13:10.220 I have a suggestion to make.

01:13:13.580 There will be others, Dennis has one, Matthew has a preference, but the bottom line is it

01:13:20.900 needs to be conducted by representatives of the people so that the people are confident

01:13:28.520 that they are the ones making the call in the end and that all the possibilities are

01:13:35.160 on the table because what is being decided at this conference is going to matter for

01:13:43.760 Alberta from now on.

01:13:46.600 It's going to determine everything.

01:13:49.600 You're going to establish what the premises and principles of the new country are going

01:13:55.040 to be.

01:13:56.040 And if you don't do that job right, you may end up right where you are now or maybe worse.

01:14:03.360 So constitutional convention consisting of, you know, a certain select number of people

01:14:10.020 selected in some way, and I don't know what that way is going to be.

01:14:13.720 And then once that room makes a call about what they think it ought to look like,

01:14:21.800 then there's got to be some way to ratify that choice by the people.

01:14:27.300 Now, maybe it's a referendum, or maybe you figure out how to select delegates well enough

01:14:33.160 so that what the delegates decide is enough?

01:14:35.860 I don't know.

01:14:36.860 A referendum on a constitution is going to be very difficult because there's going to

01:14:42.220 be a difference of opinion.

01:14:43.560 But you can't do without a constitution indefinitely.

01:14:46.600 If you introduce a constitution and the majority of people say, no, we don't really like that

01:14:51.320 one.

01:14:52.320 Well, now you have to do it again.

01:14:53.320 In the meantime, you're existing in a state without a constitution.

01:14:56.960 That's not a good idea.

01:14:58.240 So a lot of this groundwork, going back to Matthew's point,

01:15:01.540 a lot of this groundwork has to be started

01:15:03.860 well before the referendum is held

01:15:07.840 in the expectation that the answer is going to be yes.

01:15:18.780 I can envision that we submit a list of delegates

01:15:23.280 and then the Friday before we get an email that says

01:15:27.440 from the Chief Transition Officer

01:15:30.260 that they're going to ban the public delegates

01:15:33.300 and they're going to stick to the two governing parties.

01:15:35.880 I just have a feeling.

01:15:37.400 We'll see where we go with this one.

01:15:39.160 Matt, we're going to jump to you on this one.

01:15:40.980 How does the Constitutional Convention look like under yours?

01:15:43.540 Is it public involved or whatnot?

01:15:46.400 I think it's very important that the public of Alberta be involved.

01:15:50.400 I also want to let you know constitutions are difficult.

01:15:53.540 How many people have read the Canadian Constitution?

01:15:55.340 How many people have read one other constitution?

01:16:00.780 Five.

01:16:04.180 Bruce, and a few.

01:16:06.400 Constitutions are very different worldwide, very complicated,

01:16:09.940 and you do actually need people who know what they're talking about to weigh in on this.

01:16:15.220 Because we all think we have really good ideas until we think through how they end up playing out.

01:16:21.920 You know, we should ban this and that, and we should block this, and we should say that this must happen and this shouldn't happen.

01:16:28.420 And then we start realizing that what we've actually done is gain the court power, which is what happened with the Charter, to rule our lives and control us.

01:16:35.720 We've blocked political change because they can say, well, it's not constitutional, you can't do that.

01:16:40.640 So we have to be slow, and we have to be careful.

01:16:44.200 I think you have to realize that a constitutional convention or a transition is going to take time and should take time.

01:16:54.020 And by the way, don't make a basic law that cannot be changed.

01:16:58.720 Because it sounds great to make the law of the Medes and Persians, but remember the story of Daniel in the lion's den?

01:17:04.480 The king got tricked. He made a law that couldn't be changed.

01:17:07.260 Next thing you know, he's throwing his friend to the wolves or to the lions in that case.

01:17:10.800 We don't want to do something that we'll regret.

01:17:13.240 so go slow be careful and then a more important thing is know who's implementing it you know

01:17:21.380 every iteration of the soviet constitution had freedom of speech freedom of religion freedom to

01:17:28.540 gather freedom of the press they were there in the constitution who enforces it matters more

01:17:36.560 than what the rules are as we see with the present situation if they have the power you know he who

01:17:42.900 has the gold makes the rules is the golden rule well it's the same with power if you have the

01:17:46.440 power you can decide what the constitution says or what it truly means so it's not just enough

01:17:52.040 to have a constitutional convention make the perfect law that's going to stand the test of

01:17:56.060 time but you then have to ensure that it's able to be altered or changed if something goes wrong 1.00

01:18:02.020 that you can boot the bums out and get a fresh crew in who can fix the problem so be careful

01:18:08.180 what you wish for and make sure it takes time i agree with bruce too as exciting as a referendum 0.96

01:18:14.720 sounds on this kind of thing who lived through meech lake and charlottetown how'd that go they

01:18:20.540 were giving us basically everything we wanted and yet politics got in the way and the people that

01:18:26.180 actually stymied it or torpedoed it were the ones who said it's good but it doesn't go far enough

01:18:31.600 it's very hard to get consensus on perfection if we were to ask just this room we'd probably come

01:18:37.780 up with you know 10 more opinions than there's actually people so recognize that the horse

01:18:43.300 trading that goes into constitutional issues is going to be just as difficult or more and a thing

01:18:49.400 i was telling the guys earlier i know that my westminster system is going to win anyway because

01:18:53.640 the 45 percent of the people who voted against independence would rather have my system than

01:18:59.020 any new radical one so we're going to win on points anyway so you have to think through the

01:19:03.380 fact that all Albertans are going to have a say in this, including the people from the NDP,

01:19:08.940 the Green Party, you know, the Monster Raving Loody Party, whatever else. So be prepared for

01:19:14.600 it to be more complicated and less exciting than you thought it would be.

01:19:22.040 There was a pity clap right there. We'll get there. Just before we get to you, Dennis,

01:19:29.500 on this one. Just a reminder, we are taking questions. We're not taking it in 27 different

01:19:34.240 languages, though, so we'll stick to English, and for Matt, we'll take King's English as well.

01:19:40.700 Dennis, what would a constitutional convention look like to you?

01:19:44.960 So my esteemed colleagues have said some things that I totally agree with. First of all, this

01:19:50.820 cannot be a conference run by the provincial government staff with the people that it needs

01:19:59.100 and it wants, organized in the manner it wants, because that is a recipe for getting more

01:20:04.820 of what we have today.

01:20:06.900 So we actually believe that is a point where once we win the vote for independence, we

01:20:15.140 have to remain vigilant.

01:20:17.180 Our proposal is that we go to the government and say, look, you agree to set up a constitutional

01:20:22.860 conference set up in this manner.

01:20:24.380 We laid it out in our plan.

01:20:26.900 And you agree also you will never stop it.

01:20:31.600 You'll let it run its course.

01:20:33.440 You'll be publicly and openly to that.

01:20:36.460 Tie them down as far as you can.

01:20:38.020 If they don't honour that, well, that's what the people are for.

01:20:42.020 In terms of the conference itself, the way we envision it happening is it's going to last 12 months.

01:20:48.360 It's going to involve several steps.

01:20:51.980 One is selecting the people. 0.98

01:20:54.380 And we see a combination of people, some politicians, left and right, some academics, smarter or dumb,

01:21:01.800 some business people, equally smarter or dumb, and a lot of citizens selected in some cases by things like city councils,

01:21:12.240 in some cases selected by random selection like a jury, and some cases selected by just picking from a list of volunteers.

01:21:20.560 the key thing that happens next is they must be trained the points made you know I started it off

01:21:29.020 writing in constitutional work a while back I won't go over that but the reality is I thought

01:21:36.040 I was really smart and I knew a heck of a lot of a constitution until I got into it then I met these

01:21:41.200 two fine gentlemen I realized you know there are some pretty strong points for Westminster you guys

01:21:46.120 like to hear it but it's true and some pretty strong points for bruce's point of view and that's

01:21:51.160 true and the strong points for a constitutional republic that's what's what i tend to favor and

01:21:56.440 that's also true but deciding between them and making them work it's very difficult so we see

01:22:02.920 that group of somewhere around 90 or 100 people albertans being trained walking through the

01:22:10.040 the constitutional models with based on knowledge going through every sentence

01:22:15.260 every clause and deciding on them as a group and that's what comes out at the

01:22:20.300 end saying okay the proposed Constitution how it gets ratified after

01:22:24.980 that all I know is I want the people of Alberta to have a say as long say the

01:22:30.440 determining say what exactly that Constitution ends up to be and I think

01:22:36.280 when we enter to such a constitutional conference there's three things that

01:22:40.000 come to my mind is who holds the power and how do you take it back? Westminster

01:22:47.860 puts in the cabinet, Republic puts it in the head of state, the articles of

01:22:52.500 freedom never handed over in the first place. Second, what should a government

01:22:58.840 simply be not able to do? What should be prevented from doing? Fringing on rights

01:23:04.540 is one and it's a question about hard limits and about who enforces them and

01:23:11.500 third and the most important question to be faced is how hard should our

01:23:17.440 Constitution be to change everything I've talked about around Canada over the

01:23:25.400 weeks and months is that Alberta or Canada has a constitution that

01:23:31.240 desperately requires change, but it's welded shut. You can't change it. It's basically impossible.

01:23:38.780 It's too hard to change. We've asked for 45 years and been told no, and not because we didn't have

01:23:46.000 good arguments, but because there's just no way to do it. So we have to embed in that constitution,

01:23:51.780 and you should all be looking for it, a way that things can plausibly be changed,

01:23:56.500 not rapidly not easily but not so difficult that it's impossible and that

01:24:03.260 conference must make those determinations and I look forward to

01:24:06.400 their result

01:24:12.220 12 months we can make a person faster than that and I think whoever controls

01:24:19.020 the catering is going to control the mood at this conference because you

01:24:23.260 You don't want to have a bunch of hangry people here.

01:24:27.020 Last question, if we get to the actual questions from the audience.

01:24:30.980 All right, so constitutional convention is done, ratification is done.

01:24:33.920 We're now at that stage.

01:24:35.520 But what you won't get is unanimous consent.

01:24:38.440 There's definitely going to be a portion of the population

01:24:40.720 that is not pleased with what's going on at all.

01:24:43.560 Some have threatened to leave, but a lot of them are likely going to stay.

01:24:47.860 And this is rule of mob, right, at this stage,

01:24:51.100 because now majority rules.

01:24:53.260 How do we handle a bit of a division at that stage

01:24:57.140 with the people that said,

01:24:58.000 I don't want anything to do with this,

01:24:59.380 but they're still Albertans?

01:25:01.780 Start with Matt, Dennis, and then Bruce.

01:25:04.600 I think, first of all, they are still Albertans,

01:25:06.760 so they have a right to not be happy,

01:25:08.920 and they have a right to be heard just as much as you and I do.

01:25:11.680 And we have to remember that.

01:25:12.900 We're here for everybody.

01:25:14.300 And we all make up Alberta.

01:25:16.580 Sometimes you want to deck the guy next door,

01:25:18.500 but you've still got to live together next door to each other.

01:25:21.340 so we've got to be willing to work together. We have to go slow. A big thing I would say,

01:25:27.440 make it so you can change it. Don't make any decisions on the first day. You know, all of us

01:25:33.840 were once 18, and you think back, man, if you'd have set your life in stone back then, things would

01:25:38.180 have been pretty messy, right? Try it out. See how it fits. If there's things that aren't working,

01:25:44.540 be ready and willing to change it. If the minority is saying, hold on a second, you're steamrolling

01:25:49.940 us, listen, one of the great things about Westminster is that it actually provides a

01:25:55.700 way to protect minorities and to protect those who aren't the great mob, because it's not just

01:26:03.440 all about a democratic vote and whoever gets 51% wins. So we have to make sure that we think

01:26:11.760 slowly and carefully on what we're doing and not be in a rush to lock everything in, because that

01:26:17.340 It sounds like a good idea, but just like we were saying, the Constitution's welded shut, and you can't fix it.

01:26:23.660 Everybody really was excited when they sat on that rainy day and signed the Constitution with the Charter of Rights and Freedoms,

01:26:30.940 and everyone says, oh, the Charter's amazing, look at all it does, and then they start getting into it and realizing,

01:26:36.820 wait, the Charter is the single greatest threat to your freedoms that's ever existed.

01:26:41.360 And people still think, wow, I have charter rights, it's so amazing, because they haven't thought through what's been done.

01:26:48.680 But that piece that was put in place harms you now, and it took a while for us to realize how much damage was being done.

01:26:57.100 So whatever we do, we have to have the ability to adjust it and not lock in a basic law right at the beginning

01:27:05.340 and then try and follow that in all the rest of our changes.

01:27:11.360 All right, Dennis, well, Matt is your neighbor, and he said neighbors might hit each other, so be careful.

01:27:19.020 What are your thoughts about Alberta after this?

01:27:22.340 I don't get mad, I get even.

01:27:26.440 You have a plan for it, right?

01:27:30.420 So what do you do about the disengaged?

01:27:33.160 I worry about that a lot.

01:27:35.320 I worry about the fact that our culture is not one of understanding

01:27:39.700 that the people in our legislative offices control much of what we do each and every day.

01:27:47.180 They control what we do with our money.

01:27:49.200 They control the drugs we put in our body.

01:27:51.620 They control where we go.

01:27:53.380 They control where we drive our car, who can drive, who can do this, who could do that.

01:27:58.360 Endless.

01:27:58.860 And this is where Bruce and I agree.

01:28:00.640 The managerial state has gone far too far.

01:28:03.620 We want less managed.

01:28:04.820 We want more freedom.

01:28:05.580 But the fact that people really understand that and say, well, it's just politics and I just ignore it, that's a problem.

01:28:13.020 So I think something we all have to do, and everyone in this room can help, but also the people working on transition, once we get that constitutional conference going and so forth, is we have to educate as many people as we possibly can.

01:28:30.220 Not just about constitutions, but about roles of citizens.

01:28:34.760 I'm old enough to have lived through civics classes in school,

01:28:38.760 where I was taught system of government,

01:28:41.120 where I was taught how the laws work, where the police fits,

01:28:44.680 what municipalities are, and all that good stuff.

01:28:47.200 And not because it's stuck in my little nine-year-old brain all that well,

01:28:50.840 but I got a sense for how the place ran.

01:28:52.960 So we have to try and bring that sense back.

01:28:55.680 Now, the time is short, especially for on a 12-month calendar for constitution, but we have to work at that.

01:29:02.480 Because at the end of the day, the only thing that will defend our freedom long-term is an informed, engaged electorate.

01:29:10.880 First, last, and always.

01:29:16.740 And then, Bruce, how do we deal with the Albertans for a Complete Canada organization that likely would spawn out of this?

01:29:23.340 There will always be a dissident group that wants to go back to Canada.

01:29:28.100 Well, so let me take this opportunity to talk about the substance of what I think the Constitution

01:29:32.840 ought to consist of.

01:29:34.960 Because I think, yes, there's a lot of devil in the details, no question.

01:29:39.960 But at the highest level, the most abstract level, this is very simple.

01:29:47.260 Here's the question for you.

01:29:50.360 Do you want Alberta to be a free country?

01:29:56.160 And if the answer is yes, then you have to know what that is.

01:30:02.000 What does that mean?

01:30:04.920 And once you define that, everything flows.

01:30:10.820 And the definition I've been giving is this.

01:30:13.000 You are free.

01:30:14.000 You are politically and legally free.

01:30:18.200 If you are not subject to the force of other people who cannot tell you what to do, that's

01:30:26.440 your neighbor who wants to beat you up and the people who run the state.

01:30:32.440 If that is the premise of the country, then that is the premise of your constitution.

01:30:42.860 What's complicated about that?

01:30:45.200 Here's the problem.

01:30:47.420 Here's the problem.

01:30:49.500 People are able to believe in that and simultaneously believe that we need to order the country

01:31:00.980 and the Constitution in a way that is best for the common good.

01:31:06.240 And to do that, you have to tell people what to do.

01:31:12.220 And those two things cannot coexist.

01:31:16.740 You have to pick one.

01:31:20.600 And the people who are unhappy, at least with the model that I'm describing to you, the

01:31:25.760 people that would be potentially unhappy if that came to be, are the people who want to

01:31:33.480 tell other people what to do.

01:31:39.220 Because they've been given their freedom.

01:31:42.140 constitution i'm describing gives everybody their freedom and the people who are who are unhappy

01:31:51.820 about that are unhappy because they can't tell other people what to do

01:32:00.620 so one of the main questions that's going to happen inside this room

01:32:05.580 this constitutional convention whatever form it takes is do you want alberta to be an actually

01:32:14.140 free country or do you want a constitution that controls people for the common good

01:32:28.220 and once you've decided which one of those two things it is

01:32:31.100 That's the path you're on.

01:32:35.680 But if you choose the first, things become pretty damn straightforward.

01:32:45.420 And the more complicated it becomes, beware, the more off the path you are wandering.

01:32:54.600 It's a very demanding standard, but it's also very simple.

01:33:01.100 It's a decision to be made.

01:33:04.400 And once you've made it, that's what you get.

01:33:09.780 I like that one smack.

01:33:16.740 You liked it.

01:33:17.740 All right, so the closing comments here from everybody is kind of a question, but it's

01:33:22.620 a message to people who are still undecided about the vote.

01:33:25.660 They got a few more days to vote to have the advanced polling right now, and then in person

01:33:30.200 on the 19th. We'll do Dennis, Matt, and then Bruce. So Dennis, do you have any last comments

01:33:35.560 to people who are undecided at this stage about the vote going forward?

01:33:40.960 So for those folks that are unsure, I ask them to ask themselves, what am I unsure about?

01:33:49.800 Am I unsure about whether we can successfully become our own country, the process by which

01:33:57.200 we do so? Are they concerned about can we afford it? Will we be financially

01:34:03.320 successful? Will we be able to live our lives and live them prosperously? Will we

01:34:08.580 be free and open? Will we be able to have more freedoms than we have in Canada

01:34:13.040 today? What are your questions? And then look at the documents that are out there

01:34:18.200 and read them. Read them and understand them. I've been a big hand in writing

01:34:23.940 three of them the transition plan the budget for it and the forward to freedom document

01:34:30.020 if you read through those documents you will find a group of 45 people that put a huge amount of

01:34:35.380 effort into answering those questions and the answers to all of them are straightforward not

01:34:41.460 always easy but there's nothing new to world governments operate all over the world every day

01:34:48.420 They run passport offices, they run finances, they do all sorts of things, and it's well known.

01:34:55.560 We just have to do it for ourselves.

01:34:57.800 Much of what we have already in Alberta is sufficient.

01:35:02.300 Some things have to be enhanced.

01:35:04.340 Things, like defense, have to be built from scratch.

01:35:07.960 So ask yourself the questions.

01:35:10.420 Ask yourself, what's required?

01:35:12.940 What's my concern?

01:35:14.280 Go look at the documents available to you.

01:35:16.480 read them understand them ask your friends ask people in this room what

01:35:22.420 exactly as your concern and from there to make the decision based on facts and

01:35:28.840 a lot of clear thinking by a lot of people over the last few months Matt

01:35:38.140 what's your message to people who are undecided looking to place their vote it

01:35:43.180 It is risky, but this is a non-binding vote.

01:35:47.740 This is a chance for you to make your voice heard.

01:35:50.580 And if you say, I don't like the status quo, you have one option.

01:35:56.000 If you think it's great the way it is, yeah, you know the way to vote.

01:35:59.620 But don't vote or don't refuse to vote in this direction just because of risk.

01:36:05.600 You know, people who left the Titanic when it was sinking actually had some risk.

01:36:10.820 There was people who froze to death in the cold water.

01:36:13.180 But you know how many people who stayed on the Titanic survived?

01:36:17.260 So make sure you think about that.

01:36:19.520 Yes, it's risky.

01:36:20.880 Yes, there's potential for complete and total disaster.

01:36:24.560 But look around you.

01:36:25.480 You're in Alberta.

01:36:26.860 You're in the place that people took risks and built.

01:36:30.220 You're in the place where people figured out a way to make it happen in a place that Palliser called a desert.

01:36:36.420 So if we could survive this long as Albertans, making a go of it, helping each other out,

01:36:41.700 working together why could we not take this risk and succeed in a way that's bigger than we could

01:36:48.820 ever dream and your children are on the line here your grandchildren this is not about most of us

01:36:56.040 we can survive but what about the next generations if a change doesn't happen then we're doomed

01:37:02.800 and I don't want that to be a fearful thing it's just practical you've got to see the change needs

01:37:10.180 to happen so take the opportunity to vote in a way that if you don't want independence at least

01:37:15.660 you can make your voice heard and say I'm not okay with how it is now I think a lot of people

01:37:26.380 would agree with that I'm not okay with how things are right now Bruce that's the point right

01:37:32.860 Remember, independence is not on this ballot.

01:37:43.160 What's on the ballot is the status quo.

01:37:49.440 If you want to send a message to the rest of the country

01:37:52.880 that Alberta thinks that everything is fine,

01:38:00.340 then vote option one.

01:38:02.860 A vote for option one, I'm not here to tell you what a vote for option one will mean in

01:38:09.100 Alberta, but I can tell you what a vote for option one will mean elsewhere in this country,

01:38:18.320 what it will mean in Ottawa, what it will mean in Ontario, and in other parts.

01:38:25.180 A vote for option one means that everything is fine, and that all the complaints that

01:38:35.560 have been made by Alberta over the past 40 years, they don't really mean it.

01:38:44.380 And they can be ignored because they just had a vote.

01:38:53.200 And they voted to say the status quo is fine.

01:38:57.960 Now, what about, though, those other nine questions?

01:39:05.180 Five of them are policy questions.

01:39:07.200 Four of them, though, are questions about constitutional amendments.

01:39:14.980 Why doesn't the vote on those four constitutional amendment questions indicate that there's

01:39:24.120 a problem as far as Alberta is concerned?

01:39:28.040 What if the people of Alberta vote option one on question ten to stay in Canada, but

01:39:36.100 they say yes to some of these constitutional questions?

01:39:41.520 Those questions are irrelevant.

01:39:46.640 They are asking questions about constitutional amendments that will never happen, never happen.

01:39:55.700 They mean as much as the equalization referendum you had in 2021.

01:40:02.400 62% of Albertans voted to end equalization.

01:40:07.920 What happened?

01:40:10.700 Nothing.

01:40:11.700 Nothing.

01:40:15.560 Nobody was interested.

01:40:17.920 Nobody will be interested in abolishing the Senate.

01:40:22.360 Nobody will be interested, especially the federal government, in changing the ability

01:40:27.580 of the federal government to make judicial appointments to the highest courts.

01:40:32.580 Not going to happen.

01:40:34.420 Not in a million years.

01:40:37.120 Those other four constitutional questions are decoys.

01:40:43.300 Question 10 is about the status quo.

01:40:48.920 Now just think of who it is that's telling you that option two on question 10 is just

01:41:01.520 too much of a risk. Do people come to mind? What do all those people have in common? Maybe

01:41:13.720 not all of them, but the prominent ones, the ones that are in the media, the ones that

01:41:17.820 are trying to speak to you and scare you. This is the political establishment. The political

01:41:26.940 establishment of every political stripe along with the usual suspects, the

01:41:38.060 academics, the legacy media, the Aboriginal chiefs, even CEOs of some big

01:41:48.820 companies. This is the establishment speaking, and there are two possibilities. Either option

01:42:00.680 one on question 10 is indeed a threat to your interests, or it is a threat to theirs.

01:42:18.820 So, govern yourselves accordingly.

01:42:29.840 Anybody in this crowd undecided currently?

01:42:34.360 There you go.

01:42:35.140 Here's your answer.

01:42:37.040 Okay, so what we're going to do now, I'm going to jump over to the questions, because we have a few here.

01:42:40.740 Remember, you still have time.

01:42:41.900 So, if you have some questions, go ahead and bring them up.

01:42:44.300 I see somebody moving right now.

01:42:46.980 And there's some good ones here.

01:42:47.960 and we've got an online one as well okay this is a two part one and what we'll do is just go down

01:42:52.760 the line and we'll try and keep it brief uh thank you very much the thing i'm scared about the most

01:42:59.800 is censorship if we keep speaking up especially about independence is there any legal protection

01:43:06.200 for us i don't think i would do well in jail see you there um i like the top bunk just to be clear

01:43:16.840 and the second half of this one is

01:43:19.360 as social media is one of the biggest ways

01:43:21.720 to campaign for independence

01:43:23.040 how do we do that with censorship

01:43:25.040 Matt

01:43:26.200 I would say

01:43:29.740 social media isn't

01:43:30.880 social media is good

01:43:32.060 you talking to somebody else

01:43:34.520 is what matters and you know what

01:43:36.340 it's hard to stop that

01:43:37.960 sure they can throw you in prison

01:43:39.780 talk to them in prison too because they've given all the prisoners

01:43:42.360 the right to vote anyway so what the heck

01:43:44.440 but yeah I'm too

01:43:46.380 I'm too pretty for prison as well nobody else thinks that but you know my wife does so I feel

01:43:50.800 happy about that but don't be afraid no matter what happens the censorship is a serious problem

01:43:57.900 it is an issue it's one of the reasons why we need to fight because they are trying to take

01:44:01.700 away your right to speak and it can get very uncomfortable just ask anybody who lived in a

01:44:07.200 former communist country post-soviet bloc you'll you'll hear about it we have one in the room it

01:44:12.860 It does make it more difficult, but you know what?

01:44:16.160 They all won against the Soviet system, the communist system, and it happened by people

01:44:23.540 talking to people.

01:44:25.320 That's the way to win.

01:44:33.100 No one said this was risk-free, but I'd like to think that in the long term, as Matt pointed

01:44:39.960 out. Doing the right thing ultimately will result in the right things. So we all have to take

01:44:47.620 some belief that we will be successful, some willingness to take, yeah, some risk once in a

01:44:54.320 while, but in the interest of a much better outcome for us and our children and our future.

01:45:01.160 So that takes a bit of effort, but you know what? Just be respectful. Just be truthful.

01:45:07.020 just be honest don't call people names all that stuff and you know what if they want to throw you

01:45:13.700 in jail for pointing out something that's truthful and factual well they're going to throw you in

01:45:19.360 jail anyway and so just say what you have to say and what was the second part of the question

01:45:26.100 social media i was not on social media until this independence thing started up and i'm on

01:45:36.140 the platform X I'm there because guess what it's sensors less all of them

01:45:42.800 sensor all of them block you but it's the only mouthpiece we have and the

01:45:47.420 means of leveraging our stuff outside of Matt's point of talking amongst our

01:45:52.820 friends and circle of acquaintances so my point of view is get on the platform

01:45:58.460 be respectful be honest abide by the rules in those platforms but make your

01:46:03.180 points like I would argue we've got several hundred pages the documentation

01:46:08.300 in the transition plan and supporting material and it's not offensive no one's

01:46:13.200 censoring us we didn't point fingers we didn't call people names we just sort of

01:46:18.720 pointed out facts and our ideas and thoughts and again they're gonna censor

01:46:22.980 that they're gonna block that whether it be in social media or personally well

01:46:26.760 then so be it we'll deal with that when the time comes so I think just the key

01:46:31.420 element is just be honest, be respectful, be truthful, and I think that's the best chance

01:46:36.820 we have. And the prize is worth pursuing.

01:46:43.720 Agreed. And all I'll add, even though it sounds banal, is that the increasing potential for

01:46:49.920 censorship is just one of the other reasons why you have to leave. Right? So it sounds

01:46:59.160 Most obvious, I know, but if you start adding up the reasons why Canada doesn't work anymore,

01:47:06.320 this is just one of them.

01:47:08.100 And yes, it's something you have to stare down and deal with and conduct yourself in

01:47:15.500 a way as Dennis is describing to minimize the chances, but nevertheless, the potential

01:47:20.960 for it, even the potential for it, the fact that you have to think about it, to think

01:47:25.460 Think about how to say something so that you will ensure you don't get into trouble is

01:47:30.340 itself an indication of why Alberta has to go.

01:47:35.580 All right, so we've got a couple individual questions here.

01:47:41.760 This one's for you, Bruce.

01:47:43.480 And this is one of the variables actually we didn't talk about that is actually live

01:47:46.340 on the table.

01:47:48.240 When would Mitch Sylvester's question be asked?

01:47:51.400 I understand that it's a citizen's initiative question that was asked following all the rules.

01:47:58.080 Can the question be changed?

01:47:59.800 So kind of two parts here.

01:48:01.280 So can you kind of explain what that process is being stuck and what can happen?

01:48:04.700 Okay, so that question was launched under the Citizen Initiative Act and a statute of Alberta.

01:48:16.260 The present referendum is being conducted under the Referendum Act.

01:48:20.780 The difference is this. Citizens can launch a petition to suggest, propose a referendum question under the Citizen Initiative Act. The government can hold whatever referendum it wants under the Referendum Act. And that's what's happening now. This tenth question is a government question.

01:48:42.040 Now, they're saying the reason for it is because of that other process, but that other process

01:48:47.880 was shut down by a court decision.

01:48:52.740 Can the government change the wording of that question as it was proposed under the Citizen

01:48:58.740 Initiative Act when and if you get an eventual actual independence referendum?

01:49:04.960 The answer is yes.

01:49:06.860 That question can be decided by the government.

01:49:10.280 And that process that was shut down is essentially over.

01:49:14.520 It doesn't matter now.

01:49:18.680 We have a referendum to take its place.

01:49:20.440 It's not the same question.

01:49:22.720 But if the people decide for option two on question 10, then the government will thereafter

01:49:30.400 have a political mandate to hold a referendum on independence.

01:49:36.680 So you don't need that process anymore.

01:49:41.300 The government can, yes, decide not to hold one, but you can also decide not to hold one

01:49:47.540 under the Citizen Initiative Act.

01:49:49.680 So the whole thing now is in the hands of your Alberta government.

01:49:54.680 And if they don't do it, don't let them fool you.

01:50:01.360 That is a decision that they have made.

01:50:04.020 Their hands are not tied – not tied by their own legislation, which they can change, and

01:50:11.040 not tied by the court.

01:50:13.700 The court did not shut down a government referendum process.

01:50:18.360 It shut down a process under the Citizen Initiative Act.

01:50:22.140 That process is now essentially over.

01:50:24.400 It doesn't matter anymore.

01:50:26.540 The government has the power to hold a referendum, as it wishes, on a question of its choice.

01:50:34.040 All right, Dennis, somebody's holding you to a quote here.

01:50:44.400 In opening, you said, I think we are going to win this.

01:50:48.820 What signs, data, data, intuition led you to hold this position?

01:50:55.300 a ball just a crystal ball what people ask ask that a few times because maybe

01:51:03.520 I'm an outlier but I do think we will win it the reason why is not any hard data

01:51:09.980 it's little stories like talking to some people to small business eight or ten

01:51:16.740 guys working there and they tell me everyone in this business and their

01:51:22.640 family support this these are not guys that go in public they don't attend

01:51:26.580 meetings like this they don't go on social media they're busy working they're

01:51:31.520 busy feeding their families having fun during the petition gathering talked to

01:51:38.240 a few of the people running a lot of that good friend of mine and she said

01:51:42.440 you know what for every person that actually signed we probably had another

01:51:47.000 person that came around and said I'd love to sign but I don't dare put my name

01:51:50.960 on it. It's a lot of people. And you keep going through those kinds of reasons. I've

01:51:57.000 got sisters. When I first introduced the idea of overt independence to them, they looked

01:52:02.060 at me like I had three heads. And guess what? My sister is now ardently in favor, ardently

01:52:09.260 supporting. And you know what? Her kids are. Her grandkids are. We're going to have a whole

01:52:15.040 bunch of them voting. So those are the things that make me say, you know, I think our numbers

01:52:22.580 are a lot higher than perhaps the polls would suggest.

01:52:32.940 Eight out of ten statistics are made up on the spot, including that one. Matthew, this is an

01:52:41.080 online question. So you're reaching an audience here. How does the Westminster system ensure

01:52:46.460 freedom? Because it can't be stopped by the courts. I don't know if you've heard about a field called

01:52:55.900 Runnymede, but when the king decided that he was going to be too big for his britches and that he

01:53:02.320 wasn't going to do what he was supposed to do, the barons put him back in his place. We have

01:53:07.400 checks and balances built into our system when it's not a French Republic wearing Westminster 0.89

01:53:12.380 as a skin suit that allows for the parliament to check itself, for the governor general or the king 0.79

01:53:18.840 as the case may be to check themselves, for the premiers of the provinces to check the government. 0.63

01:53:23.860 We have a robust system that up until it was destroyed worked and enabled us to hold the

01:53:31.820 government to account and to maintain freedom. We come from a tradition, a thousand year tradition

01:53:38.440 of the freedoms of an Englishman. And you go look into that, it's really cool. And it's the most

01:53:45.760 robust system. It's what the American system was built on. They hate to say that, but all the rights

01:53:50.820 and freedoms that they valued came from their British tradition. So we have that built into

01:53:56.900 westminster and the biggest thing that's going to preserve freedom in alberta under a westminster

01:54:02.260 system or a communist system is you guys because albertans like freedom now we don't like total

01:54:10.260 freedom rights without responsibilities we believe that we are responsible to the people around us

01:54:16.900 and that there should be some order and some decency i was on a plane the other day trying

01:54:20.980 to get off the plane just like everyone else and what do you do you stand there and you wait because

01:54:25.060 then everybody gets off in order and some person who will shall remain nameless decided they wanted

01:54:31.460 to get off first and they started bullying their way through well he may have been exercising his

01:54:36.920 freedom but we all know there's a certain rule to the way you do it we like that in Alberta and we

01:54:42.560 preserve that not because the government tells us we have to but because we recognize that when we

01:54:47.600 all play by the same set of rules it's good that's what's been angering us is that the government

01:54:54.540 in ottawa keeps changing the rules keeps deciding that we're not going to play by the playbook we're

01:54:59.800 all used to and deciding that they get to force on us whatever they decide and we're not handling it

01:55:06.800 we're not going to take it and that's why we're where we're at so this system that we're having

01:55:12.220 this referendum under is the bad westminster system you can have a better one but even under

01:55:18.700 this system we're here doing what we're doing having a referendum saying we want independence

01:55:23.640 so there you go okay so for this one let's be brief because we're running out

01:55:32.340 of time here I'm not trying to censor you guys just to be clear I will start

01:55:37.440 with Dennis Matt and then Bruce if option two wins do you think Ottawa will

01:55:42.220 take Alberta seriously and address our grievances in other words shut down the

01:55:46.920 need for the one right what do you think Dennis I said they're against us but 0.97

01:55:53.480 they're not stupid the guts of it is they're gonna take option two and play

01:55:58.300 it the way they want I fully expect they'll do things like well only voter 0.96

01:56:03.800 turnout was only sixty percent and you know so on and so forth they're gonna

01:56:09.140 start playing every trick in the book saying yes but it was a hysterical vote

01:56:13.860 an emotional vote all these kinds of things so I think that the first

01:56:18.800 referendum being won starts to send a message but we must have that second referendum and we must

01:56:25.840 win that fairly and cleanly because that's really the decision and that's the core of it i don't

01:56:32.160 want someone to give me my freedom i want to grasp it and hold it and decide on it myself

01:56:38.940 i think that's what albertans want

01:56:40.720 back yeah i don't think ottawa will because when you talk and bruce can tell you this from being

01:56:49.840 in ontario you know when i'm out there living there for a couple years they would say to us

01:56:53.940 we don't understand why you're so mad we do so much for you they truly believe that there's just

01:57:00.560 a few of us who are wrongly annoyed over things that we should be thankful for so they're going

01:57:06.040 to continue on with their way.

01:57:07.540 Maybe they'll throw us a couple bones,

01:57:09.000 hoping that'll settle down,

01:57:11.320 but Ottawa ain't gonna quit being Ottawa.

01:57:13.480 So we're gonna need that second referendum.

01:57:15.680 And I highly doubt that they're gonna do anything

01:57:18.320 other than continue beating us,

01:57:19.860 hoping that morale will improve.

01:57:25.620 Just to be clear, I'm wrongly annoyed right now

01:57:28.020 with that comment.

01:57:29.100 Go ahead, Bruce.

01:57:31.860 They can't.

01:57:33.500 They can't. They can offer you some policy concessions, take a few obstacles out of the way of a pipeline, or change this rule, or adjust that, but they can't do what you're asking, because that requires significant constitutional change.

01:57:58.180 It requires changing the system, the model under which the country works.

01:58:10.500 It requires changing the balance of power in the country.

01:58:16.180 Changing the way the Senate seats are appointed.

01:58:20.380 Changing the way the federal government is able to make judicial appointments.

01:58:24.640 changing the way the seats are allocated in the Senate, in the House of Commons.

01:58:30.900 You are asking them to change the country.

01:58:35.720 And that's impossible because the people in the rest of the country won't allow it.

01:58:43.580 And if the politicians, if it ever ran through their head to do that,

01:58:49.420 they would understand that it is not in their political interests

01:58:54.280 to carry it out.

01:58:56.700 This cannot happen.

01:59:01.220 And yes, the way you vote on question 10

01:59:05.480 will send a message, like we've been saying.

01:59:08.940 But actually, that's not the point.

01:59:10.860 It doesn't matter what message you send to Ottawa.

01:59:16.900 It doesn't matter.

01:59:19.080 They cannot change it the way you're asking them to.

01:59:23.780 cannot be done.

01:59:26.380 And so the actual message,

01:59:27.920 the real message that counts

01:59:29.500 is for the people

01:59:31.880 in your own province

01:59:33.820 and especially your own government.

01:59:36.960 The message is

01:59:38.120 whether this is serious or not

01:59:40.300 and whether or not

01:59:42.480 you will actually leave

01:59:44.160 because in my opinion

01:59:45.660 that is the only choice you have.

01:59:53.780 So Dennis, Bruce, Matt, what is your opinion on leaving questions one to nine blank and only voting option two on question 10?

02:00:03.820 Dennis?

02:00:07.540 I think the constitutional questions, the four of them, are a waste of time.

02:00:13.180 They're vote the way you want.

02:00:15.200 I don't really care.

02:00:17.780 The other ones have some good policy ideas in there.

02:00:20.580 and I think there's some input

02:00:23.860 to the province of Alberta

02:00:26.320 that's probably useful

02:00:27.440 but again I don't think they carry any real weight at all

02:00:31.040 the only question that matters is question 10

02:00:34.080 and that's the one that carries the weight

02:00:36.640 that's when they'll move us forward

02:00:38.300 so I'm a little bit more ambivalent

02:00:40.460 do what you want with the other nine

02:00:42.120 but ultimately just vote option 2 and question 10

02:00:45.460 I agree

02:00:50.320 the other nine questions don't matter.

02:00:53.580 The first five policy questions are things

02:00:56.060 that your government could have done three years ago.

02:01:01.440 They're just hiding behind the referendum.

02:01:05.680 If I had a vote, I might be inclined to vote

02:01:09.180 for option two, question ten, leave the rest blank.

02:01:12.900 Now, some people are saying,

02:01:14.400 no, no, no, that's giving something away.

02:01:15.980 so I have no objection to voting for the first nine if you want to like some answers are better

02:01:24.020 than others on the first nine but especially on the constitutional questions I totally agree with

02:01:30.200 Dennis those are complete decoys they're meaningless they will never happen it doesn't

02:01:36.940 matter what the outcome is again if you want to quote you know send a message about whether or

02:01:43.200 not Alberta feels okay about the Senate. You vote for it if you want to. It won't produce

02:01:48.740 anything. So it's your call. The only one that really matters is question 10.

02:01:56.680 Matt.

02:01:59.140 I'm going to differ. Any chance you get to tell the government what matters to you, do it.

02:02:07.400 do it loud do it long make sure they know do you think that you should have to show proof of

02:02:15.540 citizenship to vote for gosh sakes do it so all the people are saying well they don't matter they

02:02:21.900 don't matter they don't matter here's how politics works there's nobody in the pundit class or in the

02:02:27.180 political class who are going to go oh well 60 of people didn't vote on those questions clearly

02:02:32.760 didn't like the questions they didn't think this they didn't think that they're going to say

02:02:36.680 voter apathy they didn't care and whoever wins on those questions right if the question is only

02:02:43.820 voted on by the passionate people who say no to the nine then you've now given them a mandate to

02:02:50.020 say see we had a referendum and they said nobody should have to prove citizenship to vote you've

02:02:56.900 helped them i always say to people there's no such thing as a politician going around going oh man

02:03:01.760 And somebody didn't vote for me.

02:03:02.860 I wonder why.

02:03:04.520 Votes work this way. 0.94

02:03:05.700 You either hate their guts or want to have their babies.

02:03:08.820 And that's all they see.

02:03:10.300 And the same with these questions.

02:03:11.920 You either loved the question or hated it.

02:03:14.060 And if it was three people who voted on it, that's the only ones that are going to have a voice on those issues. 0.99

02:03:19.360 So don't do the dumb. 0.99

02:03:22.280 You got an opportunity to talk to the government. 0.99

02:03:25.400 Talk to them.

02:03:26.020 Thank you.

02:03:31.760 So, I love questions that start off with no offense, and we got one of those right here.

02:03:40.760 It's kind of like when a lawyer is really nice to you and then adds a however and but

02:03:45.000 right after the sentence.

02:03:46.000 I know somebody that does that.

02:03:49.720 As I look at the ages of some of the folks who have, so who did this?

02:03:54.200 Because I'm taking offense.

02:03:58.600 At the ages of some of the folks who have accomplished a tremendous amount of work and 0.99

02:04:03.040 the amount of work required given going forward for years to come, the younger crowd needs

02:04:09.200 to get involved soon and get up to speed on critical thinking.

02:04:14.480 What do you see as a way for that to start?

02:04:19.980 I mean censored and carry on in the future.

02:04:24.740 So actually a great question, because this could be multiple years, some of you have said.

02:04:28.880 So how do we engage the younger generation and crowd to kind of continue this?

02:04:34.980 Let's go with Dennis, Bruce, and then we'll finish with Matt.

02:04:40.780 Well, how do you influence young people?

02:04:44.820 A question that adults have been struggling with for centuries, so there's no direct way to do it.

02:04:49.540 But I do think the only path that has promise is conversation.

02:04:54.220 I mentioned the mechanic, the small business I spoke to.

02:04:57.980 This guy is probably mid-30s.

02:05:00.020 He's doing well.

02:05:01.340 So he had a few questions.

02:05:02.840 He knew I wrote a lot of the stuff.

02:05:06.440 So he'd take the time.

02:05:08.020 He'd explain to them.

02:05:09.240 He'd walk through it with them.

02:05:10.980 That's why I'm online.

02:05:12.080 I don't know the ages of the people on the other end,

02:05:13.720 but I don't really care either.

02:05:15.660 But if someone asks me a question,

02:05:17.000 I'll give them a measured, thoughtful response as far as I can.

02:05:19.980 I think if we engage them that way, engage them in their terms when they're ready to talk, I think they'll listen.

02:05:27.280 As for intelligence and capability, I think that they are every bit as smart and capable as us old farts.

02:05:35.220 I think it's just a matter they don't have the experience and the mileage and the scars sometimes.

02:05:40.240 So again, sharing and telling them about it is one way to get them on side.

02:05:44.500 I, as I've said several times tonight, am optimistic.

02:05:47.880 I'm also optimistic about young people

02:05:50.300 I see young people in this audience

02:05:52.200 and other audiences I've spoken to

02:05:54.280 and I think that we

02:05:55.720 have more support there

02:05:57.600 and more capability there

02:05:59.820 than we sometimes give ourselves credit for

02:06:02.480 oh we are

02:06:10.220 we are

02:06:12.200 we have quite a few young people

02:06:14.300 like the Holmes sisters

02:06:15.580 and several other that we work with

02:06:17.800 and to speak directly to the young people.

02:06:19.960 Isn't this fire?

02:06:21.400 Six, seven, six, seven.

02:06:23.080 All right, Bruce, how do we engage the young people?

02:06:25.600 You don't send me, because obviously I'll fail there,

02:06:27.900 but how do you engage the young people

02:06:29.160 to continue carrying the torch?

02:06:32.440 I think the most important thing is to confirm for them

02:06:37.520 that what they're experiencing is not normal,

02:06:40.900 that this is not the way it's supposed to be.

02:06:42.920 A lot of them have that instinct,

02:06:44.580 But they're facing a barrage of information, propaganda, conditioning, ideology from all sides, really, because all the institutions are captured, yes?

02:06:57.620 Legacy media, which they probably don't watch much anymore, but also their schools, their universities, their professional organizations, their employers.

02:07:06.060 So, they need to hear an alternative story from somebody in not necessarily an overly

02:07:16.880 aggressive way, but in a, by the way, you're probably right.

02:07:21.320 I don't know exactly what you're thinking, but here's an idea.

02:07:25.060 If you can get them to start to think for themselves and to understand that what they

02:07:32.200 are suspecting in their own heads is actually probably pretty rational.

02:07:37.160 My experience has been that that can be a huge help 0.84

02:07:40.140 to get them over the hump of thinking that they're nuts 0.86

02:07:44.160 instead of the whole world. No, in fact, the world is nuts, and you are 0.99

02:07:48.120 sane. If they can get that through their heads, then they've got something to work with.

02:07:55.140 Matt?

02:07:57.260 Age has wisdom. Youth has passion.

02:07:59.820 so all you got to do is as you go about your life like deuteronomy says as you go teach them the law

02:08:06.800 take the time to spend time as Wade is saying and mentor young people get to know their lives and

02:08:13.740 their issues a big thing don't let the first voice that they hear on a subject be their teacher at

02:08:19.240 school or the tick tock or the snoop shoots or the easter group make sure that you take time

02:08:25.240 to actually talk to your kids,

02:08:27.960 the people that are around you that are young,

02:08:30.180 and help them to see the world

02:08:32.120 and teach them how to think,

02:08:35.760 not necessarily what to think. 1.00

02:08:37.900 They may be dumb when they're young. 1.00

02:08:39.540 They may go off and do the stupid things we all did, 1.00

02:08:42.020 but they're going to learn and they're going to grow 1.00

02:08:43.680 and they're going to be better for it.

02:08:50.220 What's the audience, Max?

02:08:51.740 How are we doing with the audience?

02:08:52.840 what's the count the number and then on my on my screen what was that okay cool

02:09:09.040 okay so this question I've been trying to figure out what it actually means so

02:09:13.060 I'm not trying to put you on the spot but I'm gonna ask a question about the

02:09:16.480 question feels like a referendum on the referendum given Smith supported option

02:09:21.880 and this referendum achieves 35, 40% or greater.

02:09:26.060 Is this 40% or greater on option two or option one?

02:09:30.720 Who asked this question?

02:09:34.700 Okay, so if option two loses, but it has a high number.

02:09:38.500 Okay, so given Smith supported option one

02:09:41.880 and this referendum achieves 30 to 40% or greater

02:09:44.620 on option two, do you believe that Smith

02:09:47.840 has a moral obligation to resign

02:09:50.000 so that Albertans can vote for an Albertan

02:09:52.400 who will represent us or all of us,

02:09:59.200 and truly representing Alberta and not Ottawa.

02:10:02.380 So let's go this way.

02:10:05.540 So should she resign if one wins and two loses?

02:10:09.720 If one wins, 0.76

02:10:14.500 it'd be pretty hard to convince her to resign. 0.98

02:10:16.900 That's the side she's been pushing. 0.97

02:10:20.000 She won. She's not going to resign.

02:10:23.800 Whether or not she has a moral obligation to resign, who knows. 0.98

02:10:28.160 Does she have a political obligation to resign? 0.61

02:10:31.180 Not unless the people inside her own party say, 1.00

02:10:36.040 that's not the side we were on.

02:10:38.640 We were on one side, and you were on the other,

02:10:41.880 and you were our leader, and you won,

02:10:45.440 so now we want you to resign.

02:10:47.140 That probably doesn't happen unless those people inside her own party make that case, or more than make the case, make it happen, I think.

02:11:02.360 You want to hear an oxymoron? Honorable politician. 1.00

02:11:10.180 I don't think Danielle or any other politician will do the honorable thing ever.

02:11:16.580 I think that they're just going to do what's expedient,

02:11:19.900 find a parade and get in front of it.

02:11:22.340 Whether this wins or loses, 0.99

02:11:25.320 Danielle and every other politician that's been against us

02:11:28.140 will spin it in their favor.

02:11:30.500 And within a month, they're going to look back,

02:11:32.380 and we'll look back and say,

02:11:34.360 well, I didn't think they were on our side,

02:11:36.120 but somehow they're supporting the next referendum.

02:11:39.260 What's going on?

02:11:40.440 So I think we have to just take those people for what they are.

02:11:43.860 They're politicians.

02:11:44.520 they're going to say what needs to be said

02:11:46.900 so they're popular and that's the end of it

02:11:49.100 and I think if she wins

02:11:51.100 she'll crow but if she loses

02:11:53.220 she'll say will of the people 0.71

02:11:54.980 and pretend to join us

02:11:56.600 yeah I definitely think it's a really hard

02:12:03.120 sell to say hey you just won a majority

02:12:05.200 you should resign

02:12:06.620 so you know that's a pipe dream

02:12:08.920 I do think too we've got to be

02:12:11.120 careful and I'm not calling her

02:12:13.040 a devil, but better the devil you know than the devil you don't. Danielle, whether you

02:12:18.400 recognize it or not on this particular issue, I think we all say overall the UCP government

02:12:24.140 under her hands has actually done pretty good, comparatively speaking, especially with previous

02:12:28.980 governments or the NDP. So you have to recognize that if we're a one-issue voter, we tend to

02:12:36.920 have problems. And it is a hard job, and you have to look at who's going to replace the

02:12:42.700 leader that you have if she wins with option one she can say look at that I did a great thing for

02:12:50.340 Alberta and everyone agreed with me if option two wins I agree with Dennis I think probably

02:12:55.900 and I would say it may be less cynically than Dennis maybe but you know if option two wins

02:13:02.880 she is the kind of person who does actually want to hear from Albertans and does listen so she'd

02:13:07.700 say well the majority said that and she'd probably get behind it and i think that's not necessarily

02:13:14.500 a bad thing a politician who listens what a horrible idea we could always go back to having

02:13:20.060 premier kenny just saying all right as we close up we'll just come down the line here with your

02:13:28.720 closing comments and then we'll finish this up it's been a fun ride guys it's been months and

02:13:35.860 months and months between the petition campaign, the referendum campaign, and we're not done yet.

02:13:42.240 No matter what happens, Alberta has a future because of you guys, because of everyone watching,

02:13:48.540 because of the people who are taking the time to care about their province. And it's important

02:13:54.600 that it not be on just this one issue. Independence, to me, is a means, not an end, right? If it helps

02:14:02.860 Alberta, it's good. So figure out what helps Alberta on everything, not just this one thing.

02:14:08.380 When this referendum campaign is done, don't go back to your house and get back to life and just

02:14:13.460 say, ah, whatever happens, happens. Be involved, be engaged, be polite, be respectful. You catch

02:14:19.160 more flies with honey than you do with vinegar, so don't run around calling everybody nasty names

02:14:23.960 and saying, I hate the way you look, or it doesn't actually help. But get engaged, get involved,

02:14:30.060 and be productive and then you're going to see a change. I know it's hard to believe when we're

02:14:35.660 frustrated with politicians. All politicians aren't bad. I spend a lot of time with them. I know it's

02:14:42.400 okay Dennis. I spend a lot of time with them and I see some that are cynical slimy so-and-sos

02:14:48.440 but I see a lot that are really good-hearted and even if I don't think that they're doing the right

02:14:55.200 thing, at least their motivation is good. So get engaged with them. Sit down and have

02:15:01.400 a talk with them. It's always fun to throw eggs from the sidelines, but I've been in

02:15:06.160 leadership positions, and there's a lot of hard decisions that have to be made, and the

02:15:10.740 worst thing is to give it your all and try your best, and then have people come out and

02:15:15.040 throw eggs at you after you've done it. So give them a little bit of grace, kind of like

02:15:19.080 what you'd want if you were in their position, but get involved.

02:15:25.200 So two thoughts are going through my mind.

02:15:29.560 First of all, to quote a bit of Churchill,

02:15:32.860 the 19th is not the end.

02:15:35.380 It's not even the beginning of the end.

02:15:37.680 Perhaps it's the end of the beginning.

02:15:40.960 So we've had a long run to do this.

02:15:44.220 More to come.

02:15:45.940 Second thing is probably more relevant in the next few days.

02:15:49.340 I think right now it's going to be a question of who gets out the vote.

02:15:52.180 And I would encourage all of us, everyone in this room, everyone you know, everyone you can influence, go vote.

02:16:00.900 I tell people, vote as you please, but please vote.

02:16:04.760 And I think then, one, we get the true reflection of the will of the people of Alberta.

02:16:10.900 And because I think the will of the people of Alberta is to leave Canada, we will win option two.

02:16:16.760 it's a terrible referendum the nine the first nine questions don't mean anything

02:16:26.420 the tenth question is a terrible question it's difficult to understand it's not straightforward

02:16:32.820 it's a double standard and yet

02:16:37.540 it's still the moment of truth

02:16:41.760 this is the first time in forever

02:16:46.020 that the people of Alberta

02:16:50.700 actually now have an opportunity to say what they think

02:16:53.720 and people have been working on this for a lot longer than

02:16:57.480 I or these guys have

02:16:59.980 a lot longer, this is the first time

02:17:04.060 the people of Alberta get to indicate whether or not

02:17:08.360 there is actually a problem

02:17:10.560 i just hope that they don't miss the moment you can't say no and still be credible about making

02:17:22.580 the case that you are mistreated that's what you're being asked do you want to stay in canada

02:17:29.340 no you don't that's what you've been saying for a long time and i agree with you

02:17:35.980 but you've got to get that answer to the 10th question

02:17:41.640 otherwise all of the

02:17:45.380 it won't go away, I'm not saying it ends

02:17:47.880 and I agree with Dennis about maybe the end of the beginning

02:17:52.080 but you want it to be the end of the beginning

02:17:55.880 on the road to independence

02:17:57.460 so

02:18:02.940 do your very best

02:18:05.360 to get your fellow citizens out to the voting booths,

02:18:10.600 to fill out a ballot, and to tell each other what you really want.

02:18:22.360 So about a week or so ago, I announced that I'm running for Reeve of Brasso County,

02:18:27.800 and somebody posted a comment and said,

02:18:33.000 hey, you've tried elections a couple times and lost, so what are you doing?

02:18:37.960 And I reposted that and said, this Timothy guy believes if at first you don't succeed, quit.

02:18:45.020 Well, I think that's what we're going to see happen on the 20th.

02:18:48.720 If option two doesn't succeed, we should not be quitting.

02:18:51.900 We should just keep going, regroup and find a way to keep going.

02:18:55.600 So trying to get a little plug in here for me as well, but the message is don't give up.

02:19:00.460 Back there, we have some great volunteers.

02:19:03.860 You guys saw them on the way in, helping out at the merch table.

02:19:06.740 Thank you all very much for being here tonight and helping us.

02:19:13.100 I want to recognize Mr. and Mrs. Albertan, who got a standing ovation last night.

02:19:20.700 Two of the hardest working people.

02:19:22.320 Did you guys fix the signs last night?

02:19:27.880 Wow.

02:19:28.320 some more vandalism happening around Calgary

02:19:30.720 and sad that that's happening

02:19:32.800 but we're going to keep moving forward

02:19:34.160 I also want to thank the venue because it's very difficult

02:19:36.700 to get space in Calgary

02:19:39.000 Edmonton and other places

02:19:40.900 in Alberta because they don't want us to have these conversations

02:19:42.980 so thank you very much for the venue for this

02:19:44.640 and of course my wife who's behind all of this

02:19:50.980 she's not here today, she's watching the kids

02:19:52.660 taking care of that but without her this doesn't happen

02:19:54.840 either, so thanks Paula

02:19:56.400 Matt, Dennis, Bruce

02:20:00.540 this is our second time doing this

02:20:02.560 we did this earlier in the campaign

02:20:04.300 you guys are all friends

02:20:05.780 the conversations are great behind the scenes

02:20:08.700 so if you ever find us in a restaurant

02:20:10.580 talking, come hang out with us

02:20:12.460 but it's been a pleasure Matt getting to know you

02:20:14.700 Dennis you're amazing, Bruce you're awesome

02:20:16.440 thank you very much guys for being here

02:20:17.780 applause

02:20:19.780 applause

02:20:21.780 applause

02:20:22.780 applause

02:20:23.780 applause

02:20:25.780 And last but not least, thank you to all of you who came out.

02:20:30.060 This is a Wednesday. There's a lot going on.

02:20:32.360 We're coming to the end of this campaign,

02:20:34.320 so thank you all for coming out and being here with us today.

02:20:37.040 Thank you.

02:20:39.980 And to the online audience, thanks for joining us.

02:20:42.280 I love you all very much, and God bless.

02:20:55.780 You

John Bolton - October 15, 2026

FreedomCalendar.net TV #0F1： Constitutional Talk From Dennis, Bruce and Matthew (LiveStream)

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