Keith Wilson joins me on the show to talk about his experience as a canvasser for the Recall Campaign. He talks about the process, the process itself, and the impact of the campaign. He also talks about his thoughts on the Centurion Project and the controversy surrounding it.
00:07:17.760whoever's idea it was to put photographs on those boxes
00:07:24.180the boxes of signatures showing the real people
00:07:27.300the real Albertans in incredibly difficult conditions at various locations across this
00:07:34.480province set up in their pop-ups that was real that wasn't staged like that that that that really
00:07:41.720happened so where am I going with this um I was really I I couldn't be at the event yesterday I
00:07:48.620was in client meetings all day in my office but um uh I saw the I saw the videos uh uh and I was
00:07:56.280fortunate to read to watch mitch sylvester's speech and i listened carefully to the letter
00:08:03.760that he's presented or is presenting i guess might have presented it by now but he read a letter that
00:08:09.120he has had written to the premier and in that letter he i was pleased to see that he emphasized
00:08:15.900the challenging conditions and not only that the psychological fear that albertans are facing which
00:08:21.000is just terrible uh condemnation of the state of canada yeah and why we have to separate um but
00:08:28.440also he went on to talk about having sworn a statutory declaration and i thought that was very
00:08:34.300wise um and presenting that to the premier and uh and i thought okay that's smart um because
00:08:42.600i'm sorry keys let me just yeah okay i was just going to ask you explain what that does so yeah
00:08:47.040what does that do for people who don't understand that and maybe you can explain it a bit better
00:08:50.980to me as well sure no problem thanks yeah um so what that does is it gives evidence
00:09:01.140to the premier and to the the politicians the elected officials the mlas of what the numbers
00:09:10.900were right so it didn't all these numbers didn't go into a black box so to speak right because we
00:09:15.880saw on some of the videos i saw how and you were there how they sealed these boxes so he was able
00:09:22.580to ensure that it was public what was in those boxes which is over 300 000 people signed and
00:09:29.920the threshold's 178 000 so clearly it was met and even if 5 000 or 10 000 of those signatures were
00:09:36.120somehow funny business it's still there's no scenario under which the threshold wasn't lawfully
00:09:42.700met right so if this gets bogged down with the courts and uh things get appealed or turned down
00:09:51.100and appealed and appealed again uh it gives political justification a political rationale
00:09:58.860for the premier and her government to say we're moving forward with a referendum i realize you
00:10:04.020know one of the things people would be really clear on the government at any time and i'm
00:10:12.360be able to demonstrate this very easily the government at any time on its own initiative
00:10:16.480has the ability to announce a referendum and i can provide proof there's going to be nine other
00:10:23.400questions in october there was no citizen initiative calling on the provincial government
00:10:29.080the smith government to set questions on immigration on the senate and so on the cabinet
00:10:37.460and the government have that authority on their own under the referendum act and in fact even in
00:10:43.140the court challenges brought by a few first nations chiefs without consultation with their
00:10:49.500communities on their own initiative probably seeking favor from ottawa um uh all of their
00:10:58.740lawyers acknowledged that nothing that's happening in this court case in any way restricts the
00:11:04.100constitutional authority of the government of Alberta to call a referendum on independence
00:11:08.680whenever it wants that's part of the constitutional framework of Canada set by the Supreme Court of
00:11:13.080Canada the 1998 reference case so what what a citizen initiative act process is is a way of
00:11:20.180signaling government that you know coal mining in the eastern slopes is important and we want
00:11:25.740you to do something about it um uh thomas lukasic uh i think canada should alberta should stay in
00:11:34.120canada he says so here i want a referendum on staying in canada i mean of course he does a
00:11:39.680sleight of hand and doesn't tell the truth to people about what they actually signed but that's
00:11:43.220what they signed yeah yeah in other words the government didn't need the smith government
00:11:49.340doesn't need this petition to call a referendum on independence on in october 19th the government's
00:11:56.300already got enough indication when you combine the statutory declaration that mr vester's provided to
00:12:01.520the premier confirming the numbers over 300 000 and that he saw that with his own eyes under oath
00:12:07.040swears it and you've got the lakasic the the the runway is laid and the the jet of independence
00:12:16.980can take off now. So I don't lose sleep over these court challenges. I don't lose sleep over
00:12:26.580the hype from the leftist media, the paid federal government media. Remember, whenever you see a
00:12:34.880news talker on CTV and CBC, they are paid by the federal government. They are fundamentally the
00:12:40.800same as the news talker in North Korea, but they don't have quite the enthusiasm down.
00:12:46.980right it was it was a great day yesterday the pictures you saw in those boxes were pictures
00:12:53.060that were sent to me they were good for you they sent them to me and and and and it was very
00:12:59.000effective and i loved seeing them there i see mitch stand behind those boxes was really something
00:13:03.460you made i mean fox news had it everybody had pictures there it was really outstanding so
00:13:07.800yeah it was a great day yesterday but the thing is the thing is we don't
00:13:11.180maybe this is an indication how people don't trust government here in canada and how canada
00:13:16.880phone we don't trust we don't seem to trust the courts anymore keith i mean uh it wasn't shakespeare
00:13:21.760said the law is an ass with all due respect sir but um what can we what can we expect from this
00:13:28.640judge um i think that maybe when this case when they were discussing this case we were hoping it0.79
00:13:36.160would have been dismissed out of hand but we have to wait for this decision so you're pretty confident
00:13:43.040that we're going to be that this this is going to be ruled on the side of state for alberta and not
00:13:47.120these no i'm not saying that uh what i'm saying is it doesn't matter okay okay no seriously that's
00:13:53.720what i'm saying it doesn't matter i have no idea what the judge is going to rule i do know the law
00:13:57.920and there's no reasonable basis for the judge to to interfere with this process and without taking
00:14:04.800everybody the deep end of the pool just to deal with one point in particular the 1930 natural
00:14:10.700resources transfer agreement transferred all of the crown land in alberta right the first some of
00:14:16.720the first things we signed an agreement with the crown all right well first of all there's two
00:14:21.020crowns there's the crown in the right of canada and there's a crown in the right of alberta so
00:14:24.240which one did you sign with you know all right okay well the one of the things the treaties say
00:14:29.340is that the um is that the rights that the crown has can be assigned to someone else
00:14:38.620And in 1930, that's exactly what happened in Alberta and in Saskatchewan, actually, with the 1930 Natural Resources Transfer Agreement. And all of the land base, but for the 1.3% of the land in Alberta, where the treaty, where the First Nations are, so there's 48 First Nations, their little reserves comprise 1.3% of the land base.
00:15:03.460that's it that land was owned and is owned by the federal government not even the first nation
00:15:09.300i don't agree with that but that's the way it is yeah and then there's all of the crown land
00:15:14.780under the jurisdiction of the federal government at the time and in 1930 they transferred it to
00:15:21.660the provincial government and nothing changed for the first nations all of the treaties continued
00:15:28.340to be honored they put the federal government put a clause in the 1930 transfer agreement
00:15:33.860natural resource transfer agreement that the province had to respect the traditional hunting
00:15:39.220fishing and gathering rights and trapping rights of first nations that's why under alberta's hunting
00:15:46.180laws if you're a first nation you don't need a hunting license right yeah so um it's a demonstrated
00:15:54.580proof that the governmental jurisdiction of the land base covered by the treaties can go from one
00:16:02.180government to another and nothing changes for the first nations that's one of the options here
00:16:08.820upon independence is um uh nothing will change so when you you know one of the points people
00:16:18.220will make who are up you know trying to shut down independence is they'll say well you need their
00:16:25.660consent will you only you know john if i'm asking you to do nothing different today than you were
00:16:33.100planning on doing and not going to change what you are going to do for the rest of the day in
00:16:37.580any way and you continue to be free to do whatever you decide to do do i need to get your consent no
00:16:44.060no no i'm not changing anything right no not at all at the end of the day uh to give it a more
00:16:50.620tight answer um i think there's no legal basis for the court to interfere but the court might
00:16:58.060find something they seem to sometimes as we saw with justice fees be he predicated his decision
00:17:06.060on the notion that there would be a change with certainty and there's that's simply not just not
00:17:11.820there's no evidence of that so i don't know what they're going to decide the important point to me
00:17:17.260is it doesn't change anything uh even the first nation chiefs lawyers acknowledge that the the
00:17:23.640premier continues to have the right regardless of what the court rules to call a referendum on
00:17:28.220independence she has more than enough mandate to do so you now have over 700 000 albertans who
00:17:34.560have signed documents saying they want an independence vote uh in october so i think
00:17:40.640we're going to have a referendum. I think it's a certainty that we'll have a referendum on
00:17:45.220independence on October 19th. And I remember you saying that I think long before Christmas,
00:17:48.840we're going to have one next year. Maybe I can just ask you to speculate, why do the chiefs
00:17:53.880want to do this? What's their reason behind this? If what you say is true, and I believe that it is
00:17:59.420because you're a lawyer. So why would they want to keep it? Why did they want to take us to court
00:18:04.200over this? Any idea? Why would the court take the case if this is the truth? And what you're saying
00:18:08.960is the truth and again i believe that i believe that it is i wish the chiefs would spend more
00:18:14.240time worrying about their people um you just it's just heartbreaking to go through any reserve
00:18:19.500to see the poverty we know the abuse statistics are off the scale for child abuse um the criminality
00:18:27.180is off the scale the addictions are off the scale uh the majority the murder rate for indigenous
00:18:33.760women is off the scale and uh most of the murderers of them are first nations yeah uh their life
00:18:41.000expectancy is low this is an absolute tragedy and it's avoidable um and i just wish those few
00:18:50.040chiefs or being political activists for ottawa would seem to have more concern and more focus on
00:18:58.040matters closer to home but that's only a choice they can make i have no idea what their motivation
00:19:03.260is but i think it's misplaced maybe maybe we can move on to strategy now knowing what you just said
00:19:08.540because we certainly have to convince people to all people even indigenous people to say yes and
00:19:14.000i know from talking to some of the canvassers they've had a lot of indigenous people come up
00:19:18.080and sign because they want to change because of the reasons you just said there um what do we do0.98
00:19:25.600now um you know it's been kind of seat of your pants the way we've been doing things over the
00:19:31.660last little while. It's worked out quite well. I was very complimentary of Mitch Sylvester. I think
00:19:35.200he has a real talent for motivating people, volunteers. They really like Mitch. They trust
00:19:40.620Mitch. He's a good guy. But we're into a different territory now. This is different.
00:19:47.080Things have ramped up. There's a science coming at us. There's a science. Political campaigns,
00:19:52.740huge, lots of money coming here. As I've said, federal money is coming in here to stop people
00:19:57.540from saying from saying yes in this uh referendum and we're paying for it keith the people in alberta
00:20:02.840will be paying for this so what do we have to do a lot of different people involved here
00:20:08.040can we get a cohesive message and a game plan together to win this thing what would you do
00:20:14.040what's the first thing you would do well i first of all i'd be realistic about our situation
00:20:19.180and that is you know the polling i've seen uh that i trust um and the polling of others that
00:20:29.760i think is credible is all saying the same thing i had assumed wrongly incorrectly that there was
00:20:37.080a mushy middle there's not i don't believe that to be true yeah um uh so you know we've got a i
00:20:44.180thought it was a third strongly in favor of independence and a third strongly opposed and
00:20:49.980a third undecided and that's not what we got we've got a third in favor generally speaking
00:20:55.680and then we've got two-thirds uh or around 60 percent that are are strongly opposed and that's
00:21:04.280a very serious situation so um i think we need to get out of our echo chamber and we need to stop
00:21:10.960uh celebrating our uh just focusing on celebrations and telling us we got one another we got this in
00:21:17.540the bag because we don't at all um we can and i'm certain of that i'm certain of it because
00:21:25.340by every objective measure it makes sense for alberta to be independent we'll be the most
00:21:32.040successful prosperous country in the world that's clear from the data from our geography from our
00:21:38.320our natural endowments and we also know the trajectory of Canada is dark dystopian bad
00:21:47.120poverty you know poor loss of opportunity misery so we got to do this and we can and it's the right
00:21:55.600thing to do so I think everybody's got to have a serious discussion with themselves about the
00:22:02.820challenge in front of them and prepare for it um and recognize though on the one hand we don't have
00:22:10.200much time on the other hand we have lots of time yeah what do i mean by that a normal political
00:22:15.000campaign is an eternity it's a month we've got five so what i think should happen is people should
00:22:24.720not do as we'd see some people do from time to time say do you support independence no well then0.99
00:22:34.320you're an idiot right you love communist china you know we can't do that that is not how you0.99
00:22:41.320win people over you you're not going to win them over that plays nice to the base that plays nice1.00
00:22:47.480to those of us who have already decided that this is the right thing to do that does not move a
00:22:53.520single one of that 60%. It pisses them off. It entrenches them. So we got to stop. We need to
00:23:02.160focus more on how we can help those people see what we see. And I think we need to do that
00:23:12.040methodically. And first, by getting them to see certain things. Because if maybe you can,
00:23:19.360you know look at your your your your circles and we've already started divide into camps
00:23:25.880right there's certain settings i go into and all i'm going to bring up is the weather sports and
00:23:33.520you know some viral video on youtube about some kid with a dog or something right yeah that's it
00:23:40.660no real substantive discussion but maybe try and see if they say something like boy i'm really i
00:23:47.820don't like how the government in ottawa is doing x just start with that one and reach a common place
00:23:56.140with them you know somebody said to me um uh by analogy uh imagine john uh you're back in your
00:24:05.420late teens or early 20s and you're looking for the love of your life that you want to spend the rest
00:24:10.580of your life with the lady you want to marry and you're at some social event and you see this woman
00:24:16.100across the room you've never met her before you don't know what her name is and you rush over to
00:24:22.040her and you say this is what i think we should do on our honeymoon yeah right you haven't even0.99
00:24:28.840introduced yourself she's gonna be like whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa yeah she'll blow a whistle so
00:24:35.560people come running to help yes you'll suddenly find out what mace smells like right yes um whereas
00:24:43.720hi I'm John you know yeah I was noticing uh blah blah blah right yeah and then you know oh what
00:24:51.720brings you to this event now you have something in common right we really need to realize that's
00:24:57.600the process we're going through in the next five months you're you're talking about the carrot
00:25:01.640instead of the stick here right you know you want to draw people you want to kind of lead them along
00:25:06.120but I do get concerned because we were talking about the mushy middle we've got to get the people
00:25:11.920the mushy middle because the people at this end will always vote yes. And the people at this end
00:25:16.960are never going to vote yes. Now we find out there's a lot of people who are in that never
00:25:22.240going to vote yes side. So there's a real challenge here. And I'm convinced we can
00:25:28.400bring some of those people over. I really am. But there's a lot of people to bring over in five
00:25:34.880months, Keith. And it does concern me because we thought they were lost causes prior to Ezra Levant
00:25:41.040doing the polling and i think that's what you're referring to right yeah and i don't know that i
00:25:45.260would say um just a nuance here that's important they didn't say never they said strongly opposed
00:25:51.960yeah okay yeah so i think within that group uh of the 60 percent and we have to get you know 30
00:26:00.220percent of them to move uh loosely speaking um there's probably three groups there's the nevers
00:26:08.340you know there's the uh the tomaclacastic types um and then yeah the elbows up uh and then
00:26:17.920there's uh within them there's the ones that have just kind of said yeah now yeah now they haven't
00:26:25.440really given it a lot of thought um and the landscape's going to continue to change like
00:26:32.580this you know first carney says no we're abandoning and we're ending our relationship0.99
00:26:37.620with the united states which just is so ridiculously obscenely stupid and then he says uh0.98
00:26:44.260we're going to align with china communist china which is frightening and now he's like we're going0.99
00:26:51.620to become the next european country yeah you know and and try and contend with all that over0.98
00:26:57.140regulation that's the stupidest highly competitive markets with very low margins and we're going to0.92
00:27:02.180to have the added shipping cost and shipping on net zero you know and brussels brussels will run0.99
00:27:09.800our country in essence yeah what happens that's ridiculous yes so and he just keeps going and
00:27:15.580going and going and things are going to get worse he keeps spending worse inflation's going to keep
00:27:20.380getting higher uh our dollar's going to keep getting worth less which means you work hard
00:27:25.900and your money becomes worth less right yeah and so um i think what we have to do is realize that
00:27:34.700within the strongly opposed there's ones we're never going to move but there's a big chunk of
00:27:40.720them that are movable we have to be gentle and understanding and empathetic and compassionate0.99
00:27:47.500and not shout at them and not tell them how stupid they are um but rather appeal to cause0.99
00:27:55.540them to feel this is the right thing to do? Okay, so you're involved here in the independence1.00
00:28:05.440movement. A lot of people are very happy that you're involved. They trust you. They like you
00:28:10.060very much. We've got Mitch. We've got Jeff. We've got others involved here. Structurally, what has
00:28:15.980to happen to get the strategy? Having a whole bunch of people involved is not bringing everybody
00:28:22.780together with the cohesive message. Does there have to be some type of a summit? Sit down,
00:28:29.200hash things out over the weekend. Folks, leave your egos at the damn door. We're all working1.00
00:28:34.260on the same thing here. We all want Alberta independence. Let's work together on this,
00:28:40.000because there are those egos right now that are getting in the way in places,
00:28:44.120and we can't be that way, because time's a waste in Keith. Do we have to do something like that?
00:28:49.640does somebody have to say let's sit down and hash this out we got a couple of days or a week let's
00:28:54.540do it now i think it makes sense i hadn't thought about that but i think that makes a lot of sense
00:29:00.060uh and and another reason why it makes sense is um we're in a unique period right now and a lot
00:29:07.600of people may not realize this which is on saturday the official period for the petition
00:29:14.740ended um so we're not in a petition campaign period and no referendum question has been set
00:29:22.200by the provincial cabinet um on independence so um we're not in a referendum campaign period what
00:29:31.000that means is that any group of individuals can engage in free political advocacy and they're
00:29:37.420not constrained by the very restrictive rules um uh of elections alberta so now would be the time
00:29:45.680to have those types of discussions and for people who believe in independence and the that the
00:29:51.260importance of it for the future and for the future of their kids and grandkids to seize this
00:29:56.020opportunity of the window of time we're in where we're in a period of free political expression
00:30:01.000unconstrained by elections alberta and their their complex laws and rules uh to have those
00:30:06.960kinds of discussions for sure. Yeah. Okay. I, I, I am on a limited zoom plan. I get 40 minutes.
00:30:12.880I'm going to have to come, have you come back again. I've got about 10 minutes left. Um, I,
00:30:17.320I want to ask you this. We've got all these people who have, they've got like this amazing
00:30:23.900energy. They've been out there for four months. Your wife has been out there, as you said,
00:30:27.280and they want to do more stuff. What do we do with these people right now? How can we, um,
00:30:31.720utilize this energy uh that they have what would you suggest they do and how can we get them get
00:30:38.200keep them busy so they stay engaged well i think um you know i think there's only going to be limited
00:30:44.600limited return from town halls they still need to occur yeah but we're not going to reach a lot of
00:30:50.520the people that are in that strongly opposed category are never going to go to a town hall
00:30:54.520meeting we have to deal with that reality right um and a lot of people who go to town hall meetings
00:31:01.000you've been to a few i've been to a few you see them at every town hall yeah and you know that
00:31:06.600they're going to vote for independence even if you kidnap their dog so um no matter what they're
00:31:11.800going to vote so we need to be realistic about that we need to use different reach out techniques
00:31:17.960um i really think we need you know every campaign every political campaign always has a flyer
00:31:24.360none of the groups have prepared any kind of flyers as far as i'm aware like just simple
00:31:28.040things like that um and uh i think we need to look at buying traditional ad space uh on on radio
00:31:37.740on billboards uh just like political parties do and other groups do you know and uh when they're
00:31:45.200trying to influence public opinion and draw attention to their cause whether it's like PETA
00:31:51.260or greenpeace or whatever other organization out there they use all of these different
00:31:58.160techniques to reach people with their message so i think the various groups that are out there
00:32:04.800need to shift their posture and i suspect many are working on it to do more traditional political
00:32:13.100issue campaigning yeah there um when i was talking about a summit i mean there are there
00:32:18.520expertise needed here. You need a media buyer that knows what to buy, where to buy it, who to direct
00:32:23.740it to. You need, um, a media representative or a promo, a promotions person that's going to be
00:32:29.380getting your message out on a regular basis. These are things that, you know, um, these are things
00:32:34.080that are needed. And I think these things need to be discussed in order for us to be successful
00:32:38.380moving forward is, is a lot of stuff. You want to donate. Yeah. Oh yeah. And now's a good time
00:32:43.280to do that. Hey, because I don't think we're limited to what we can give. Are we? That's
00:32:47.140that legally that's correct boy that and your name doesn't appear on a list ah yeah so i mean
00:32:54.260that's the big one a lot of people wanted to donate but they were worried about having their
00:32:57.800name on a list again and having their bank account frozen and everything else so we're in a unique
00:33:01.880period of time and we have been since midnight on saturday yeah and the groups need to move
00:33:07.580so um if you were to go to alberta prosperity project right now they have a donate button and
00:33:13.100you were to give this $50,000, you could do that right now. Could you do that? Legally? Yes.
00:33:19.600Do that. Listen to Keith, give the money right now. Cause that's up until, uh, up until the
00:33:24.580cabinet issues, uh, ordering council, uh, under the referendum act, setting a question on
00:33:30.320independence. Okay. Yeah. Now's the time to do it. If you'd like to make a donation for goodness
00:33:34.860sakes, do that. Um, I want to ask you about the debate. Um, I've got a few minutes left here.
00:33:39.940I know that you're very limited in what you can say.
00:33:43.020You've got another one coming up, and everybody in the world is going to be watching that one on the 25th.
00:33:47.260What can you tell us about the debate you had with Jason Kenney the other night?