Juno News - May 11, 2021


2021 Meets 1984


Episode Stats

Length

34 minutes

Words per Minute

171.77066

Word Count

5,968

Sentence Count

265

Misogynist Sentences

3

Hate Speech Sentences

14


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's most irreverent talk show. This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.800 Coming up, yet another Canadian pastor thrown behind bars, Stephen Gilbo flip-flops again on Bill C-10, and a novel idea to end political discrimination.
00:00:24.580 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.840 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show, Canada's most irreverent talk show here on True North.
00:00:36.640 It is Tuesday, May 11th, 1984, and wait, wait, sorry, what was that?
00:00:43.980 No, it's, okay, sorry, no, 2021.
00:00:46.860 Well, forgive me for getting those years wrong.
00:00:50.320 On Saturday, Calgary pastor Archer Perlowski literally carried away by police for having a service in violation of a court order.
00:01:01.880 He and his brother were arrested.
00:01:03.740 Police took them down on the side of a highway in Calgary, and if you look at the footage, it's actually not clear how many police had to be there for this.
00:01:12.200 It's like they were doing some raid on some heavily armed person, when in actuality, they were taking away a pastor and his brother.
00:01:20.040 You're not, you're Gestapo, you're psychopaths.
00:01:25.040 You're Gestapo, psychopaths you are.
00:01:29.640 No, it's a Nazi style.
00:01:32.040 No, it's a taser.
00:01:33.580 Now, he is not going away easily, as you hear.
00:01:39.780 He yells that they're Gestapo and psychopaths and Nazis terms.
00:01:43.080 We heard from Pastor Perlowski a few weeks back, when he literally chased police and health inspectors out of his church,
00:01:50.400 when they were there to shut him down, and he said, as a pastor, I'm not playing ball with this.
00:01:56.680 Pastor Perlowski has joined a club in which no one wants to be a member.
00:02:01.500 Pastors put in jail.
00:02:03.580 Because of their insistence on practicing their religious beliefs.
00:02:07.920 This happens in China.
00:02:09.300 This happens in Pakistan.
00:02:10.820 This happens in Laos.
00:02:11.920 This happens in North Korea.
00:02:13.800 And yes, it happens in Canada, specifically in Alberta.
00:02:17.200 A couple of months back, it was Pastor James Coates, who spent days and days behind bars.
00:02:22.560 Now it's Pastor Perlowski.
00:02:24.040 And while he was later released, you can never get back freedom that is taken away from you.
00:02:31.480 You simply can't.
00:02:32.820 So this is now the norm in Canada.
00:02:36.080 That if the pastors won't shut their churches, you can lock them out of their churches, as we talked about last week with Pastor Jacob Rayom.
00:02:43.040 And you can also go even further and haul them away to jail, which is exactly what happened to Archer Perlowski.
00:02:50.260 Now before you do what happens every time I talk about one of these cases, I get emails from people saying, well, but he says this and he believes this and I don't particularly care.
00:02:59.860 You don't get to choose your martyrs.
00:03:02.400 But when people are being persecuted, you can decide whether they or the ones hauling them away are the ones in the wrong.
00:03:09.900 And in this case, the orders from politicians that justify this, that make this normal, that make this in some way upholding the rule of law rather than spitting on the rule of law.
00:03:22.080 They are the ones that must be hauled to account here, not Pastor Pulaski, not Pastor Coates, not Pastor Rayom, not Pastor Hildebrandt.
00:03:30.920 I don't need to agree with anyone theologically to realize that their rights are being violated.
00:03:36.580 I don't need to join the church to stand up for the church because an attack on a church and an attack on a pastor is an attack on all churches.
00:03:45.000 It's an attack on all mosques, all synagogues, all temples, all gurdjwaras.
00:03:49.320 It's an attack on all religious liberty, which means it's an attack on the very fundamental freedoms of this country.
00:03:55.600 For the people that were looking at this video and cheering on the police, what the hell is wrong with you?
00:04:05.520 What is wrong with you?
00:04:06.720 This is not what a society should strive to be.
00:04:10.140 In fact, this is what people in societies risk their lives to fight against.
00:04:16.100 It is this sort of overreach that people will fight against to form new societies that protect and preserve freedom.
00:04:24.480 And Pastor Archer Pulaski knows this all too well.
00:04:28.100 He grew up on the other side of the Iron Curtain.
00:04:31.000 He knows what it's like to live under tyrannical rule.
00:04:33.600 He knows what it's like to live under a communist dictatorship.
00:04:37.160 And well, even with what's happening here, I don't stack up Canada in the same ranks as those dictatorships.
00:04:43.700 I also realize why for someone who's lived that life, it all looks too eerily familiar for him.
00:04:49.780 At one point, not that long ago, you had people from Poland fleeing to the free world.
00:04:53.580 And now you have Christians that will be fleeing to Poland.
00:04:57.720 Not talking about Archer Pulaski specifically, but in general.
00:05:01.420 And here's the thing.
00:05:02.540 This is one more example of how protest is only selectively allowed under the law enforcement regime we have right now.
00:05:12.260 Calgary police send out a statement announcing its enforcement of this court injunction,
00:05:17.100 in which they said this.
00:05:18.820 It is important to understand that law enforcement recognizes people's desire to participate in faith-based gatherings,
00:05:25.380 as well as the right to protest.
00:05:27.600 However, ah, here's the rub.
00:05:29.720 As we find ourselves in the midst of a global pandemic,
00:05:32.320 we all must comply with public health orders in order to ensure everyone's safety and well-being.
00:05:38.500 When Black Lives Matter protests were taking place last summer,
00:05:42.440 it was all fine because they had a moral worthiness to their cause in some people's eyes.
00:05:46.740 But if you want to protest the order saying you can't have church by having church,
00:05:50.360 well, we are going to haul you away.
00:05:52.760 Now, here's the thing.
00:05:53.760 A lot of people laughed last week when I'd said that Trinity Bible Chapel
00:05:57.540 had been on the receiving end of $50 million in fines.
00:06:00.920 I actually don't have as much of a problem with that as I do with what happened to Pastor Pulaski,
00:06:06.140 with the reason being that if you get fines,
00:06:08.320 you don't have to pay them until you've exhausted all your options.
00:06:12.500 You can fight them.
00:06:13.640 You can appeal them.
00:06:14.820 You can do all of this without actually losing anything.
00:06:18.320 If you've been arrested, or in the case of Trinity,
00:06:21.720 if your church doors have been locked on you,
00:06:24.680 you cannot get that back.
00:06:26.840 You can have it restored in the sense that,
00:06:29.140 yes, you can be allowed back into your church,
00:06:30.920 or in Pastor Pulaski's case,
00:06:32.440 he can be sent away from jail and sent back home on bail,
00:06:35.660 as happened that weekend.
00:06:37.400 But what you can't do is reclaim what was lost.
00:06:42.120 When that liberty is taken, it is gone forever.
00:06:45.640 And the best case scenario, the best thing you can hope for,
00:06:49.340 is a recognition from some court that,
00:06:52.160 yes, your rights were in fact violated.
00:06:54.840 Well, let me tell you, you don't need a court to tell you
00:06:57.800 that religious liberty is being violated
00:07:00.100 when pastors are being hauled to jail
00:07:02.220 for daring to practice their religion,
00:07:05.160 for daring to assemble as Christians have for 2,000 years.
00:07:09.780 But the problem with this,
00:07:10.960 to go back to Ontario for a moment,
00:07:13.020 Trinity Bible Chapel, Church of God in Elmer,
00:07:16.260 and another one that I haven't focused on on this show as much,
00:07:18.920 which is the Wellandport United Reform Church in Niagara region,
00:07:22.080 those three have constitutional challenges against the Ontario government.
00:07:26.960 Those will be heard in October,
00:07:29.860 which means that we are looking at six months from now,
00:07:33.760 not six months from when the issues first started,
00:07:36.360 six months from now,
00:07:37.780 before they will be able to have their day in court
00:07:40.080 and make their claim that the government
00:07:41.580 has violated their constitutional rights.
00:07:43.940 Six months from now.
00:07:45.280 And some of these cases have gone back, by the way,
00:07:47.640 to the very beginning of the pandemic,
00:07:49.380 almost a year ago.
00:07:51.440 So it will have been 18 months
00:07:53.620 since some of these violations started
00:07:55.580 before they can even make the pitch in court.
00:07:59.360 And as I know firsthand,
00:08:00.580 even after you've had that hearing,
00:08:02.080 it's still a significant delay
00:08:03.620 to actually get a result on this.
00:08:06.860 And yes, you want to do it right,
00:08:09.000 but justice delayed is justice denied.
00:08:12.060 So the fact that it takes so long
00:08:14.040 to have the day in court
00:08:15.100 to make the case before the government
00:08:16.720 and then perhaps get a finding
00:08:17.920 that yes, your religious liberty was violated
00:08:20.200 is why it's so dangerous
00:08:21.700 to look at interim measures
00:08:23.520 and injunction measures
00:08:25.080 that are being used quite routinely now
00:08:27.840 to violate people's rights
00:08:30.040 pending the outcome of larger cases down the road.
00:08:35.200 And this is monumental.
00:08:36.900 If provinces start to go systematically
00:08:39.500 and realize that there's now a framework
00:08:41.860 and there's now precedent
00:08:42.880 because of what happened in Alberta,
00:08:44.200 what happened in Ontario,
00:08:45.560 there's now precedent
00:08:46.540 to start locking church doors
00:08:48.680 and locking up pastors.
00:08:50.660 And anyone who cheers this on
00:08:52.320 is ignorant of the fact
00:08:53.560 that when you allow this
00:08:55.180 or celebrate it,
00:08:56.280 such as the case may be,
00:08:57.980 you are not just supporting
00:08:59.700 a targeted measure
00:09:01.020 on one person, on one church.
00:09:03.140 You are supporting something
00:09:04.800 that will take away
00:09:06.760 your rights and freedoms.
00:09:08.220 Not if, when.
00:09:10.480 You know, I mentioned earlier
00:09:11.580 that you don't get to choose your martyrs.
00:09:13.620 And I want to make it clear,
00:09:14.600 I'm not making a judgment call
00:09:16.240 about any of the people involved in this.
00:09:18.440 I'm saying that I don't think people,
00:09:20.240 particularly Christians,
00:09:21.820 should be nitpicking
00:09:22.780 about this theological belief
00:09:24.420 or this past controversy
00:09:25.780 when that takes away
00:09:27.700 from what is happening
00:09:28.680 and what is demonstrably happening
00:09:30.220 in front of our very eyes.
00:09:32.040 And lots of Christians, by the way,
00:09:33.800 Christian churches have been saying,
00:09:35.080 well, you know,
00:09:35.520 these people shouldn't open.
00:09:36.660 We can do our service by Zoom,
00:09:38.460 so why can't they?
00:09:39.620 That's fine.
00:09:40.340 But I want that dialogue
00:09:41.940 to take place between churches
00:09:44.200 and among Christians.
00:09:45.660 I don't want it to be
00:09:46.760 a government-led dialogue.
00:09:49.640 And that's the whole point here,
00:09:51.100 is that the government
00:09:51.760 is trying to position,
00:09:53.360 and a lot of people, by the way,
00:09:54.880 in the media are trying to position
00:09:56.420 anyone who protests these lockdowns
00:09:59.180 as being fringe,
00:10:00.220 as being a particular type of person.
00:10:02.400 And this is something we heard
00:10:03.680 from Calgary Mayor Nahed Nenshi
00:10:05.820 just a few days ago.
00:10:08.180 Those people at those anti-mask protests,
00:10:10.560 let's not kid ourselves.
00:10:11.640 They are people who are marching
00:10:13.500 in thinly-veiled white nationalist,
00:10:15.720 supremacist, anti-government protests,
00:10:17.980 and they don't deserve
00:10:19.020 that kind of sympathy.
00:10:20.180 Wait, so people who don't want
00:10:22.420 their businesses shut down
00:10:24.060 or their churches shut down
00:10:25.360 or their livelihood taken away
00:10:26.700 are thinly-veiled white nationalists?
00:10:30.480 Okay.
00:10:31.340 So minority-owned business owners
00:10:33.200 that don't like being told what to do,
00:10:35.100 they're just white nationalists as well.
00:10:37.020 Okay.
00:10:37.440 That seems a little bit weird.
00:10:38.800 And then he says
00:10:39.580 that they don't actually care
00:10:40.800 about their livelihood,
00:10:43.520 their well-being.
00:10:44.300 He says these are not people
00:10:46.160 who are protesting
00:10:47.340 because they need to eat.
00:10:49.460 No, they're just white nationalists,
00:10:51.080 supremacists, evil, racists,
00:10:52.720 all of this stuff.
00:10:53.460 This was a comment
00:10:54.480 that was echoed by NDP leader Jagmeet Singh,
00:10:57.100 similarly, without any evidence or basis.
00:10:59.880 Yes, I do think that there is
00:11:01.420 a connection with people
00:11:03.020 who aren't wearing a mask
00:11:04.980 or who aren't following
00:11:05.680 public health guidance
00:11:07.000 and the extreme right
00:11:08.520 and the idea that folks
00:11:10.000 in the extreme right
00:11:10.720 don't care about people around them,
00:11:12.760 aren't concerned about
00:11:13.960 the safety and well-being
00:11:15.280 of people generally,
00:11:17.020 their neighbours.
00:11:18.040 And an extreme right,
00:11:19.280 that kind of ideology,
00:11:20.260 is connected with
00:11:20.900 not really caring
00:11:21.620 about the people around you.
00:11:22.800 it's a selfishness
00:11:25.800 where personal interest
00:11:29.300 takes over from a community
00:11:30.600 protection and interest.
00:11:32.220 So now anyone who's
00:11:33.760 not wearing a mask
00:11:35.020 or is protesting
00:11:36.140 is an extreme right-wing ideologue.
00:11:39.400 And again, they're, you know,
00:11:40.520 racist, nationalist,
00:11:41.560 white supremacist types,
00:11:42.560 all of that.
00:11:43.280 One of the interesting things
00:11:44.320 that I've seen,
00:11:45.060 just as an aside,
00:11:46.000 is how much of a coalition
00:11:47.400 there is against lockdowns
00:11:49.520 between people on the right
00:11:50.680 and people on the left.
00:11:52.480 I've seen a lot of, you know,
00:11:54.020 hippie, new-agey types
00:11:55.140 that are finding this egregious.
00:11:56.460 I've seen a lot of
00:11:57.360 middle-class, moderate,
00:11:59.040 liberal types
00:11:59.700 that are against this.
00:12:00.640 I've seen people
00:12:01.540 on the right who are.
00:12:03.140 So the fact that this is something
00:12:04.580 that we can pigeonhole
00:12:05.680 into one side
00:12:06.860 of the political spectrum
00:12:08.080 and at that fringify,
00:12:09.860 if I can coin a term here,
00:12:11.200 I'm sure actually someone else
00:12:12.280 has used that term
00:12:13.320 in some contexts before,
00:12:14.640 is actually quite despicable.
00:12:16.920 But what's happening here
00:12:17.960 is politicians who have
00:12:18.980 committed themselves
00:12:19.680 to big lockdown,
00:12:20.840 capital B, capital A,
00:12:22.100 L, actually maybe
00:12:23.360 capital B, capital S,
00:12:24.700 but I digress.
00:12:25.720 These politicians
00:12:26.620 are really reframing it.
00:12:28.340 They're redrawing
00:12:28.960 the battle lines.
00:12:29.880 You're either with the state
00:12:30.980 or against the state.
00:12:31.960 You're with the state powers
00:12:33.060 or against the state powers.
00:12:34.480 But the way they frame it
00:12:36.100 is you're for health
00:12:37.760 or you're not,
00:12:39.220 which is a gross
00:12:40.160 misrepresentation
00:12:41.180 of what it is
00:12:41.800 that people who oftentimes
00:12:42.960 are protesting
00:12:44.280 against restrictions
00:12:45.260 are actually advocating for.
00:12:47.500 And, you know,
00:12:48.820 some people might not
00:12:49.580 agree with this,
00:12:50.200 but in my experience,
00:12:51.500 a lot of the most
00:12:52.540 conscientious people
00:12:54.020 when it comes to health
00:12:54.980 have been business owners
00:12:56.320 who are against lockdown.
00:12:57.680 They're not against lockdowns
00:12:59.060 because they are COVID deniers.
00:13:00.840 They're against lockdowns
00:13:01.920 because they don't think
00:13:03.080 it's fair to sentence
00:13:04.460 a business to death
00:13:05.660 because of a risk
00:13:07.580 that can be mitigated
00:13:08.740 through proper measures
00:13:09.860 and adaptations,
00:13:11.460 which business owners
00:13:12.380 are willing to do,
00:13:14.060 which a lot of churches
00:13:15.200 are willing to do.
00:13:16.720 But now,
00:13:17.420 if you don't go along
00:13:18.200 with big lockdown,
00:13:19.520 you are just a white nationalist,
00:13:21.300 supremacist, racist type.
00:13:22.620 And you know what?
00:13:23.240 At least they're being honest about it.
00:13:24.660 At least they're being honest
00:13:25.660 about that being
00:13:26.680 how they see the world
00:13:28.140 and anyone who disagrees with them.
00:13:30.440 We've got to take a break.
00:13:31.540 When we come back,
00:13:32.180 more of The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:13:33.600 Stay tuned.
00:13:36.420 You're tuned in
00:13:37.520 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:13:45.200 Welcome back to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:13:47.600 I apologize if this is
00:13:49.460 sounding a bit repetitive now,
00:13:50.960 but I want to talk about
00:13:51.860 Bill C-10 a little bit more.
00:13:54.120 And one of the big reasons
00:13:55.120 is because every couple of days
00:13:56.820 it seems to change
00:13:58.020 when Stephen Gilbeau
00:13:59.460 does an interview
00:14:00.120 and colossally steps in it
00:14:02.280 or offers a bit of
00:14:03.860 unintentional honesty
00:14:04.940 about what the Liberals
00:14:05.860 are trying to do.
00:14:06.940 Now, this bill is still
00:14:08.240 going through committee review.
00:14:09.600 They're still amending
00:14:10.400 and going back and forth.
00:14:12.000 And in fact,
00:14:12.680 even the most recent development
00:14:14.840 is I think a bit of a step
00:14:15.860 in the right direction
00:14:16.660 in that MPs agree
00:14:17.920 it's time to do
00:14:19.180 a legal review of it
00:14:20.740 to make sure it is consistent
00:14:22.420 with the Charter of Rights
00:14:23.880 and Freedoms,
00:14:24.500 which technically I think
00:14:26.240 has freedom of expression in it,
00:14:27.760 although I may need to
00:14:28.660 check the most recent version.
00:14:30.400 Perhaps they're amending
00:14:31.080 that on a daily basis too.
00:14:33.060 But the interesting thing
00:14:34.440 is that it went from
00:14:35.700 having user-generated content
00:14:37.560 exempt to then not exempt
00:14:39.480 to then exempt again
00:14:40.700 that Stephen Gilbeau said.
00:14:42.760 And then he did an interview
00:14:43.780 on CTV's Question Period
00:14:45.700 in which Evan Solomon
00:14:46.700 gave him the gears
00:14:48.240 and he talked about again
00:14:49.660 going after individual
00:14:51.140 content creators.
00:14:53.020 I want you to watch,
00:14:53.940 it's a long clip,
00:14:54.620 it's about two minutes,
00:14:55.540 but I want you to take
00:14:56.560 a look at it
00:14:56.980 because in that clip
00:14:58.200 you see kind of how
00:14:59.600 difficult it is
00:15:00.460 for him to claim
00:15:01.180 on one hand
00:15:02.160 that users are not
00:15:03.340 going to be targeted
00:15:03.920 and on the other hand
00:15:04.660 start talking about thresholds.
00:15:06.720 But do you understand,
00:15:07.820 if the CRTC
00:15:08.720 is regulating discoverability
00:15:10.600 of Canadian content
00:15:11.760 on social media,
00:15:12.720 that is regulating social media.
00:15:16.060 You are now calling
00:15:17.540 user-generated content
00:15:20.560 programming,
00:15:22.180 and so it's subjective.
00:15:23.180 This is the fundamental debate.
00:15:25.200 I feel like we're driving
00:15:26.780 past each other here.
00:15:27.820 If the CRTC can put that,
00:15:29.600 you're regulating it.
00:15:30.620 So, as I said,
00:15:33.900 individuals are exempt
00:15:36.440 from this law,
00:15:38.920 or will be
00:15:39.360 once it's adopted.
00:15:42.160 And what we want to do,
00:15:45.000 this law should apply
00:15:46.580 to people who are broadcasters
00:15:49.020 or who act like broadcasters.
00:15:51.500 So if you have YouTube channels
00:15:54.660 with millions of viewers
00:15:56.180 and you're deriving revenues
00:15:57.880 from that,
00:15:58.420 then at some point
00:15:59.700 the CRTC will be asked
00:16:01.440 to put a threshold.
00:16:02.700 But we're talking about
00:16:04.080 broadcasters here.
00:16:05.320 We're not talking about
00:16:06.240 everyday citizens
00:16:07.560 posting stuff
00:16:08.520 on their YouTube channel.
00:16:10.900 It has to have a material...
00:16:12.560 I mean, the criteria here,
00:16:13.820 I think you're looking for it,
00:16:15.440 it has to have a material impact
00:16:17.560 on the Canadian economy.
00:16:19.440 That's what we will ask
00:16:21.240 the CRTC to look for.
00:16:23.120 This...
00:16:23.520 But this, you nailed...
00:16:25.140 This is the nub.
00:16:26.560 People who are posting things
00:16:28.040 on YouTube
00:16:28.540 or TikTok
00:16:29.220 or Instagram,
00:16:30.240 they have hundreds
00:16:31.160 of thousands of followers.
00:16:32.660 So I...
00:16:33.200 And now you're saying,
00:16:34.120 okay,
00:16:34.960 at some point
00:16:35.840 there is a threshold
00:16:37.280 and they're generating content.
00:16:39.180 Of course they are.
00:16:39.900 They're generating revenues.
00:16:41.020 They're selling ads
00:16:41.680 all over the world.
00:16:42.400 That's how they make money
00:16:43.420 on TikTok and YouTube.
00:16:45.460 That's my question.
00:16:46.720 At what point,
00:16:48.260 what is the threshold
00:16:49.360 that they will be subjected
00:16:50.720 to CRTC regulations?
00:16:52.440 You've admitted they will be.
00:16:54.040 Now we're just debating
00:16:55.180 when?
00:16:55.980 So I ask you again,
00:16:56.960 when?
00:16:57.900 Well, obviously,
00:16:59.140 this is why we have
00:17:00.300 a body of expert
00:17:01.260 like the CRTC
00:17:02.180 to make those determinations.
00:17:03.540 It's not up to politicians
00:17:05.140 to decide that.
00:17:06.680 We've deliberately decided
00:17:08.340 to depoliticize this system
00:17:10.180 so that governments
00:17:11.380 come and go,
00:17:13.060 but these experts are there
00:17:14.900 and they will be making
00:17:16.200 this determination
00:17:17.460 after having consultations
00:17:19.760 with organizations
00:17:21.000 of different opinion
00:17:22.720 on the subject matter.
00:17:24.780 And then this was,
00:17:25.920 by the way,
00:17:26.240 an interview he was doing
00:17:27.340 to try to clean up
00:17:28.280 the mess he had created
00:17:29.340 on this.
00:17:30.120 And then later on,
00:17:31.040 he needed to issue
00:17:31.700 a statement to clean up
00:17:32.780 the mess he created
00:17:33.700 in the interview.
00:17:34.640 And his office said
00:17:35.820 that he used unclear language
00:17:37.580 and further said
00:17:39.140 that all regulations
00:17:40.580 or financial obligations
00:17:41.960 will only apply
00:17:42.920 to the platforms.
00:17:44.400 Accounts run by individuals
00:17:46.040 still fall under
00:17:47.900 the category of people.
00:17:50.680 And then Rachel Aiello
00:17:52.980 from CTV had said,
00:17:54.320 well, hang on,
00:17:54.700 how is he talking about
00:17:55.500 people being regulated
00:17:56.800 in the interview?
00:17:57.480 And they said he could
00:17:58.300 have been more careful
00:17:59.180 using his words
00:18:00.480 in order to reflect
00:18:01.540 what the bill does.
00:18:02.780 So there are a lot
00:18:03.680 of problems here.
00:18:04.340 Number one is the outsourcing
00:18:06.460 of the individual regulations
00:18:09.040 to the CRTC.
00:18:10.560 So the problem there
00:18:12.460 is that if C10 passes,
00:18:14.300 you don't even entirely know
00:18:16.240 what it's going to be doing
00:18:18.220 because the regulations
00:18:19.380 are going to be made
00:18:20.200 by a much less transparent
00:18:21.960 and much less accountable body
00:18:23.420 down the road.
00:18:24.500 So you're passing a law
00:18:25.720 that gives carte blanche
00:18:27.100 in a lot of ways
00:18:27.780 to regulators.
00:18:28.840 The other part of this
00:18:30.060 is that if you make money
00:18:31.960 from it and you're an individual,
00:18:33.660 well, you're a business.
00:18:35.020 You're a business.
00:18:35.800 And I could be, you know,
00:18:36.840 some influencer on TikTok,
00:18:38.440 probably not a good one,
00:18:39.420 but I could try.
00:18:40.400 And if I make money,
00:18:41.480 even if it's a couple
00:18:42.160 of thousand dollars a month
00:18:43.400 or maybe a couple
00:18:44.100 of thousand a year
00:18:44.900 or maybe 500,000 a year,
00:18:46.760 who knows?
00:18:47.260 And I set up my taxes
00:18:49.300 and finances in a way
00:18:50.620 that makes sense.
00:18:51.960 Does that make me a publisher?
00:18:53.520 I'm still an individual
00:18:54.380 with an account.
00:18:56.020 Does that mean I have to do,
00:18:57.300 you know, a random number
00:18:58.580 of Canadian jokes per hour
00:19:00.320 that the government says
00:19:01.300 to ensure CanCon?
00:19:02.840 Are they going to start
00:19:03.420 cracking down on content?
00:19:04.900 You can't regulate platforms
00:19:07.040 or so-called publishers
00:19:08.460 without regulating the users
00:19:11.020 who post on those platforms.
00:19:13.640 And an individual
00:19:14.860 who runs a website
00:19:16.220 that has any monetary component
00:19:19.420 is someone who is engaging
00:19:21.800 in business.
00:19:22.680 So I'm not buying this distinction
00:19:24.480 that platforms run by people
00:19:26.780 are going to be the issue.
00:19:28.560 Are they talking about
00:19:29.680 sole proprietors,
00:19:30.680 corporations, individual?
00:19:32.240 I mean, again,
00:19:32.740 the reason this is so dangerous
00:19:34.440 is because they're not even
00:19:35.860 being fully transparent
00:19:37.020 with what they want to do.
00:19:38.780 So you have to assume
00:19:40.320 that they will crack down
00:19:42.600 on any content
00:19:43.980 that has a monetary component to it,
00:19:46.180 which means if you click
00:19:47.000 that little checkbox
00:19:47.980 on YouTube or Facebook
00:19:49.360 that says, yes,
00:19:50.240 put some ads in this
00:19:51.460 and give me a few bucks
00:19:52.660 here and there,
00:19:53.360 you are going to be subject
00:19:54.680 to regulation.
00:19:56.060 And the implications of this
00:19:57.260 for content providers
00:19:58.340 outside of Canada
00:19:59.560 that Canadians like
00:20:01.200 are significant.
00:20:02.440 It's one thing
00:20:03.200 if someone is posting
00:20:04.100 on YouTube or Facebook
00:20:05.280 and those platforms themselves
00:20:07.320 have agreements
00:20:08.080 with the Canadian government,
00:20:09.320 which is in and of itself
00:20:10.880 dangerous.
00:20:11.360 But what about some website
00:20:12.920 that I might want to go to
00:20:14.140 from the Czech Republic
00:20:15.820 or from Japan
00:20:16.720 or something else?
00:20:17.780 Those countries
00:20:18.760 are not particularly relevant.
00:20:20.200 It could be any country.
00:20:21.680 What happens?
00:20:22.440 Are those websites
00:20:23.300 going to be blocked?
00:20:24.340 Are they going to be
00:20:24.840 subject to regulation
00:20:25.820 if a Canadian
00:20:26.580 wants to access it?
00:20:28.800 The whole point
00:20:29.860 of the internet
00:20:30.400 is that it's supposed
00:20:31.580 to be above these,
00:20:33.100 you know,
00:20:33.900 Westphalian state-based regulators.
00:20:37.060 But that's not
00:20:38.060 what's happening here.
00:20:39.340 So Stephen Gilbo
00:20:40.400 wants to take
00:20:41.060 this Canadian lens
00:20:42.320 to regulate
00:20:43.280 the entirety
00:20:44.000 of the internet,
00:20:44.840 which will only
00:20:46.340 penalize Canadians
00:20:47.760 who happen to be
00:20:49.060 using social media
00:20:50.020 for personal
00:20:50.680 or for professional reasons.
00:20:52.980 And the fact
00:20:53.560 that the Liberals
00:20:54.120 keep flip-flopping on this,
00:20:55.400 the fact that every time
00:20:56.320 he does an interview,
00:20:57.740 he seems to reverse
00:20:59.120 the intent of this bill
00:21:00.480 is exactly why,
00:21:02.120 as I've said
00:21:02.620 time and time again,
00:21:03.780 these are not the people
00:21:05.000 who can be trusted
00:21:05.860 to regulate
00:21:06.620 what you can say
00:21:07.900 and what you can post
00:21:08.860 and who can post online.
00:21:11.080 We've got to take a break.
00:21:12.120 When we come back,
00:21:12.860 we will be talking
00:21:13.560 about political beliefs
00:21:15.360 and should they be protected
00:21:16.940 in human rights law.
00:21:18.080 That's up next
00:21:18.720 here on The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:21:20.460 Stay tuned.
00:21:22.240 You're tuned in
00:21:23.340 to The Andrew Lawton Show.
00:21:29.900 Welcome back
00:21:30.740 to The Andrew Lawton Show
00:21:32.220 here on True North.
00:21:33.080 We talk about stories
00:21:34.220 all the time
00:21:34.840 of people being fired
00:21:36.420 or cancelled
00:21:37.480 or losing some appointment
00:21:39.040 or subjected
00:21:40.220 to some form of punishment
00:21:42.460 that is oftentimes
00:21:43.720 very real to them
00:21:45.240 and the rationale behind it
00:21:47.000 is that they believe
00:21:47.980 the wrong thing.
00:21:49.660 And interestingly enough,
00:21:51.000 in human rights law
00:21:51.800 in Canada,
00:21:52.340 people have protections
00:21:53.620 for virtually every aspect
00:21:55.240 of their identity imaginable
00:21:56.880 except for one
00:21:58.220 and that is
00:21:58.920 their political beliefs.
00:22:00.720 Bruce Party,
00:22:01.420 who is a fantastic lawyer,
00:22:02.840 a law professor
00:22:03.600 at Queen's University
00:22:04.720 and you may remember him.
00:22:06.000 He was a great panelist
00:22:07.160 on our Big Tech Censorship panel
00:22:09.300 a few weeks back.
00:22:10.720 Had given some remarks
00:22:11.780 on this to the
00:22:12.520 Canada Strong and Free Conference
00:22:14.060 which he synthesized
00:22:15.560 into a very great essay
00:22:16.980 in the National Post.
00:22:18.360 Bruce Party joins me now.
00:22:20.200 Always good to talk to you, Bruce.
00:22:21.440 Thanks for coming on.
00:22:23.140 Thanks for having me, Andrew.
00:22:24.280 Now, you note
00:22:25.280 in your column here
00:22:26.780 that there are protections
00:22:28.040 for sexual identity,
00:22:29.700 gender identity,
00:22:31.060 gender.
00:22:31.680 In fact,
00:22:32.760 in Ontario,
00:22:33.420 even Creed
00:22:34.300 is protected.
00:22:35.780 It seems like,
00:22:36.700 as I mentioned,
00:22:37.360 every aspect
00:22:38.180 of one's identity
00:22:39.100 imaginable,
00:22:40.220 but beliefs
00:22:41.060 haven't made it
00:22:41.920 into any provinces
00:22:43.020 protected human rights grounds.
00:22:45.800 Well, actually,
00:22:47.060 there are several provinces
00:22:48.180 that do list it
00:22:49.360 in their human rights codes
00:22:50.840 as a protected ground
00:22:52.520 of discrimination,
00:22:53.020 but it really hasn't
00:22:54.460 amounted to much.
00:22:55.900 And you'd be pretty hard-pressed
00:22:57.160 to say that political beliefs
00:22:58.560 are really genuinely,
00:23:02.240 robustly protected
00:23:03.160 anywhere across the country.
00:23:05.240 Yeah, you mentioned something
00:23:06.860 that I wanted to read here.
00:23:08.440 You said,
00:23:08.900 the baker must serve
00:23:09.920 the transgender woman
00:23:10.980 because his private shop
00:23:12.300 is a quasi-public space,
00:23:14.200 but he can ban the guy
00:23:15.380 in the MAGA hat
00:23:16.200 and Twitter can censor
00:23:17.320 right-wing speech
00:23:18.100 because, after all,
00:23:19.300 private businesses
00:23:20.100 are private.
00:23:21.000 It does seem like
00:23:22.140 we have a very significant
00:23:23.800 double standard
00:23:24.740 in when we say that,
00:23:26.380 no, it's your business,
00:23:27.220 you can do what you want,
00:23:28.280 and when we say,
00:23:29.080 oh, no, no, no,
00:23:29.560 if you open your doors
00:23:30.440 to the public,
00:23:31.200 you have to treat yourself
00:23:32.500 like the town square.
00:23:34.140 That's right.
00:23:34.960 And you'll hear this argument
00:23:36.160 all the time
00:23:36.920 with respect to the
00:23:37.700 big tech companies, right?
00:23:39.100 So, Twitter, for example,
00:23:42.440 is a private company,
00:23:43.920 and so, therefore,
00:23:44.760 it should be able
00:23:45.600 to censor
00:23:46.440 whatever views it likes.
00:23:47.840 Well, okay,
00:23:49.000 but if you're going
00:23:49.460 to go with that,
00:23:50.100 then that theory,
00:23:52.100 if you extend it,
00:23:52.880 means that the baker
00:23:54.180 can serve anybody
00:23:55.060 they like
00:23:55.700 and the hairdresser
00:23:57.880 can serve anybody
00:23:58.700 they like
00:23:59.320 and so on down the line.
00:24:00.460 So, what I'm trying
00:24:01.820 to get at is
00:24:02.660 let's have it
00:24:03.800 one way or the other.
00:24:05.160 Either everybody
00:24:06.220 is protected
00:24:06.880 or everybody is free
00:24:08.820 to choose as they wish.
00:24:10.740 And the problem
00:24:11.180 we have right now
00:24:11.940 is it's sum of one
00:24:14.060 and sum of the other.
00:24:15.480 And the sum of one
00:24:16.580 is almost inevitably
00:24:19.140 favoring and protecting
00:24:21.220 those causes
00:24:22.560 and identities
00:24:23.640 championed by the left.
00:24:26.000 And the right
00:24:26.780 is hung out to dry.
00:24:27.760 And they often do it
00:24:28.900 to themselves, too,
00:24:30.060 by saying,
00:24:30.680 well, we believe
00:24:31.340 in freedom
00:24:32.720 to do what you want.
00:24:33.440 And I agree.
00:24:34.400 I agree with that.
00:24:35.540 I think people
00:24:36.540 and companies
00:24:37.360 should be able
00:24:38.640 to choose as they wish.
00:24:40.080 But the problem is
00:24:41.120 that that's not
00:24:41.700 what we have.
00:24:42.560 And we have no prospect
00:24:44.680 of getting there.
00:24:45.460 And so the question
00:24:46.440 remaining is
00:24:47.260 do we extend
00:24:48.740 the protection
00:24:49.300 to political beliefs
00:24:50.200 or do we just
00:24:51.020 leave things
00:24:51.680 in the mess
00:24:52.280 that they are?
00:24:53.540 Yeah, you have
00:24:54.520 identified this gap here.
00:24:56.340 You've identified
00:24:56.880 the double standard
00:24:57.780 and from that
00:24:58.460 the choice we have
00:24:59.440 is either expand
00:25:00.920 these protections
00:25:01.680 to include political beliefs
00:25:03.100 or strip away
00:25:04.200 all of the other ones
00:25:05.720 as they pertain
00:25:06.660 to what people can do
00:25:07.920 and who people
00:25:08.700 associate with
00:25:09.560 and who people
00:25:10.480 sell to as customers.
00:25:12.900 Is your ideal version
00:25:14.740 though that one
00:25:15.540 which is we actually
00:25:16.480 kind of scrapped
00:25:17.400 the whole thing?
00:25:18.680 Oh yes,
00:25:19.140 that would be my ideal.
00:25:20.420 My ideal,
00:25:20.940 so human rights began,
00:25:22.760 it's an excellent idea,
00:25:24.520 right?
00:25:25.380 The idea is
00:25:26.420 that people
00:25:27.560 should be protected
00:25:28.600 from an overbearing state.
00:25:30.360 I mean,
00:25:30.500 we don't want people
00:25:31.160 being thrown in jail
00:25:32.040 arbitrarily
00:25:32.640 or being subject
00:25:33.800 to torture
00:25:34.460 without due process
00:25:35.900 in terms of
00:25:37.080 prosecutions
00:25:39.240 and so on.
00:25:40.220 That's where
00:25:41.420 the idea
00:25:42.080 of human rights
00:25:42.940 originates
00:25:43.520 and it's a really
00:25:44.200 great idea
00:25:44.800 but the problem
00:25:45.940 is that modern
00:25:47.280 human rights
00:25:47.960 have morphed
00:25:49.780 into this other thing
00:25:52.020 wherein some people
00:25:53.940 can impose upon
00:25:55.100 other people
00:25:55.960 to recognize
00:25:57.380 and validate
00:25:58.320 their identities
00:25:59.200 and beliefs
00:26:00.400 and yeah,
00:26:02.200 we'd be better off
00:26:02.960 without that version
00:26:04.120 of human rights
00:26:04.880 altogether
00:26:05.480 as far as I'm concerned
00:26:06.400 but the political problem
00:26:08.200 is that's not
00:26:09.600 going to happen.
00:26:09.980 There is no political party
00:26:11.640 of any political stripe
00:26:12.980 with the guts
00:26:14.900 to take that step
00:26:15.880 and so what we're left with
00:26:17.540 is do we want
00:26:19.200 to extend
00:26:19.960 protection
00:26:21.100 to political beliefs
00:26:23.080 that right now
00:26:23.740 are being subject
00:26:24.460 to an awful lot
00:26:25.780 of punishment?
00:26:28.140 One of the things
00:26:29.420 I've always found
00:26:30.240 about human rights commissions
00:26:31.960 is that inherently
00:26:33.080 they have to create
00:26:34.240 some sort of a hierarchy
00:26:35.960 of identity groups.
00:26:37.440 I mean,
00:26:37.660 one of the most notable examples,
00:26:38.900 I think it was a year
00:26:39.760 or two years ago
00:26:40.620 in,
00:26:41.540 I want to say,
00:26:42.280 Windsor,
00:26:42.820 there was a waxologist
00:26:44.920 from some salon
00:26:46.260 that didn't want to wax
00:26:48.160 a transgender customer
00:26:50.000 but the reason
00:26:51.460 was that the waxologist
00:26:52.820 was a Muslim.
00:26:53.960 So all of a sudden
00:26:54.800 you have
00:26:55.360 her religious rights
00:26:57.020 to not have to wax
00:26:58.520 a man's genitals
00:26:59.340 and the transgender person's
00:27:01.460 rights to be recognized
00:27:02.480 as in fact a woman
00:27:03.740 and in these cases
00:27:05.220 there's no right answer
00:27:06.540 once you make
00:27:07.320 the government
00:27:08.120 the arbiter of this.
00:27:09.140 The right answer
00:27:09.740 I would say is
00:27:10.680 well,
00:27:11.260 the transgender person
00:27:12.360 should go to a business
00:27:13.200 that wants her business
00:27:14.100 and the waxologist
00:27:15.740 should be able to say
00:27:16.660 I don't want your business
00:27:17.740 but we as a society
00:27:19.160 do not want to have
00:27:20.540 these discussions
00:27:21.180 on our own.
00:27:22.020 It seems like people
00:27:22.820 have just welcomed
00:27:23.480 in the government
00:27:24.100 to be the arbiter
00:27:24.860 in every single disagreement.
00:27:27.600 That's exactly right.
00:27:28.720 Exactly right.
00:27:29.280 And you'll notice
00:27:30.000 that those cases
00:27:31.260 that involve waxologists
00:27:32.940 and transgender customers
00:27:35.160 are actually avoiding
00:27:37.120 the more basic problem
00:27:38.640 according to the logic
00:27:40.380 of the human rights codes.
00:27:42.640 As soon as a waxologist
00:27:44.040 says well I don't want to do
00:27:45.480 not forget
00:27:46.140 the transgender question
00:27:47.460 I don't want to wax men.
00:27:50.280 I'm a woman.
00:27:51.260 I don't want to wax men.
00:27:52.700 Maybe it's because
00:27:53.420 I'm a woman.
00:27:54.480 Maybe it's because
00:27:55.000 I'm a Muslim
00:27:55.560 but I don't want to wax men.
00:27:57.240 Now before you even get
00:27:58.400 to the transgender problem
00:27:59.560 that's discrimination.
00:28:01.760 On the face
00:28:03.240 of the human rights code
00:28:04.200 that's discrimination.
00:28:05.540 You're not supposed
00:28:06.000 to be able to discriminate
00:28:07.460 on the basis of sex or gender.
00:28:10.700 So there's a lot
00:28:12.660 of left hand, right hand
00:28:15.540 not really telling the truth
00:28:16.940 about these things
00:28:18.040 because if you extended
00:28:19.260 the logic to all cases
00:28:20.620 then we would all be
00:28:22.060 locked down
00:28:23.560 in terms of the choices
00:28:25.040 we were able to make.
00:28:26.480 Now one of the arguments
00:28:27.860 I've heard in defense
00:28:29.360 of some of these
00:28:30.260 is that you know
00:28:31.520 it's important
00:28:32.100 to protect race
00:28:33.200 and sex
00:28:34.300 but not political beliefs
00:28:36.500 as an example
00:28:37.160 because one is a choice
00:28:38.780 and one's not.
00:28:40.140 But we also do see protection
00:28:42.220 you mentioned earlier
00:28:43.100 in a very narrow way
00:28:44.220 of political beliefs
00:28:45.100 Ontario protects creed
00:28:46.800 generally religion
00:28:47.920 is protected
00:28:48.560 so things that are choices
00:28:49.960 do have some level
00:28:51.600 of protection
00:28:52.200 under the current arrangement.
00:28:53.460 Well let's go further
00:28:54.900 I mean there are
00:28:55.620 other kinds of choices
00:28:56.780 that are fully protected
00:28:57.900 and quite clearly so
00:28:59.220 so let's go back
00:29:00.300 to the transgender question
00:29:01.400 if you were born a man
00:29:03.640 and decide
00:29:04.960 that you believe
00:29:06.400 that you're a woman
00:29:07.400 that's protected
00:29:09.100 because that's a listed
00:29:10.860 ground
00:29:11.740 of discrimination.
00:29:14.620 If you are
00:29:16.100 a member of a particular religion
00:29:18.660 you believe in that religion
00:29:21.140 that belief is protected
00:29:22.520 these are no more
00:29:23.980 inherent characteristics
00:29:25.080 than a belief
00:29:26.700 in a political ideology
00:29:28.180 and to say
00:29:29.660 that a political ideology
00:29:30.840 is well
00:29:31.320 it's just a belief
00:29:32.040 and therefore
00:29:32.460 it's not inherent
00:29:33.160 and therefore
00:29:33.520 you can change it
00:29:34.380 is to suggest
00:29:35.300 that oh well
00:29:35.940 we can require you
00:29:38.460 to change
00:29:39.580 the central propositions
00:29:41.320 of your political
00:29:42.320 or philosophical beliefs
00:29:43.760 that's no more reasonable
00:29:47.060 than expecting somebody
00:29:48.200 to be able to change
00:29:49.080 their religious beliefs
00:29:49.920 and that's something
00:29:51.020 that we would not
00:29:51.560 require them to do.
00:29:52.960 And your point's a valid one
00:29:53.920 which is that
00:29:54.360 if we can't strip this all away
00:29:55.900 if we can't get politicians
00:29:57.140 to stand up
00:29:57.860 and realize that
00:29:58.660 we are robbing people
00:30:00.160 of their right
00:30:01.280 to run their business
00:30:02.360 the way they want to
00:30:03.180 to live their life
00:30:03.820 the way they want to
00:30:04.620 then we have to go
00:30:06.040 the next step
00:30:06.800 and say alright
00:30:07.280 well let's talk about
00:30:08.340 real protection
00:30:09.080 and a lot of people
00:30:10.140 would roll their eyes
00:30:10.940 at this
00:30:11.220 but there is
00:30:12.480 there's voluminous evidence
00:30:14.600 that people with
00:30:15.780 conservative beliefs
00:30:16.840 face discrimination
00:30:17.900 in a multitude of areas
00:30:20.140 in academia
00:30:21.000 you mentioned a couple
00:30:22.320 of cases
00:30:22.840 in the private sector
00:30:24.640 in all sorts of areas
00:30:26.320 so yeah
00:30:26.760 if you want to talk
00:30:27.500 about protecting
00:30:28.100 minority views
00:30:29.000 well it doesn't get
00:30:29.820 much more minority
00:30:30.660 than a conservative
00:30:31.420 on a university campus.
00:30:33.160 You're not kidding
00:30:34.040 that's absolutely true
00:30:35.800 and it happens
00:30:36.480 all the time now
00:30:37.160 it's happening
00:30:37.540 all the time
00:30:38.560 and in many
00:30:39.940 most cases
00:30:40.940 people are not aware of
00:30:42.400 you'll see the occasional
00:30:43.400 case written about
00:30:44.200 in the paper
00:30:44.720 and so on
00:30:45.360 and those are
00:30:46.400 those are serious
00:30:47.240 and wrong
00:30:47.700 but there's a whole lot
00:30:49.920 of things happening
00:30:50.560 that people don't see
00:30:51.380 let's say this though
00:30:55.420 one of the objections
00:30:56.780 of this idea
00:30:57.560 is that the whole thing
00:30:58.940 will become
00:30:59.420 totally unmanageable
00:31:00.600 unwieldy
00:31:01.540 the restrictions
00:31:02.920 to be placed upon
00:31:03.860 on the
00:31:05.500 into the lap
00:31:06.620 of employers
00:31:07.300 would be untenable
00:31:08.640 and
00:31:09.940 you know
00:31:10.840 in a way
00:31:11.320 that might turn out
00:31:12.620 to be true
00:31:13.160 but my point is
00:31:15.600 look
00:31:16.680 if that turns out
00:31:17.800 to be true
00:31:18.340 if that makes
00:31:19.440 the whole regime
00:31:20.420 so untenable
00:31:22.040 that it sort of
00:31:23.060 collapses under
00:31:23.800 its own weight
00:31:24.440 that's a good thing
00:31:26.460 right
00:31:27.400 so
00:31:27.600 so either way
00:31:28.540 it's a win
00:31:28.960 either it works
00:31:30.020 and
00:31:30.680 and political beliefs
00:31:31.860 are actually protected
00:31:32.800 or
00:31:33.880 it extends
00:31:35.400 the human rights
00:31:36.060 code idea
00:31:36.940 to such an extent
00:31:38.020 that the whole thing
00:31:38.780 sort of collapses
00:31:39.540 either one of those
00:31:40.780 two things
00:31:41.360 is a win
00:31:42.080 in my books
00:31:42.560 yeah you raise
00:31:43.900 a great point
00:31:44.660 conservatives should
00:31:45.440 actually be
00:31:46.280 on the front lines
00:31:47.280 of trying to expand
00:31:48.080 these commissions
00:31:48.700 powers
00:31:49.160 just to
00:31:49.840 bring about
00:31:50.920 attention to how
00:31:51.700 absurd a lot
00:31:52.660 of them are
00:31:53.020 I just want to
00:31:53.840 pivot very briefly
00:31:54.660 here Bruce
00:31:55.440 because we've been
00:31:55.960 talking on the show
00:31:56.720 for weeks now
00:31:57.420 about Bill C-10
00:31:58.380 which is the
00:31:59.040 bill that will
00:32:00.220 put the internet
00:32:01.040 and internet content
00:32:02.200 under government
00:32:03.060 regulation
00:32:03.700 your perspective
00:32:04.940 on this one
00:32:05.580 I'm curious about
00:32:06.580 because we know
00:32:07.720 that the Federal
00:32:08.420 Human Rights Act
00:32:09.620 doesn't deal with
00:32:10.760 what you do
00:32:11.900 in your own
00:32:12.320 business
00:32:12.640 for the most
00:32:13.140 part
00:32:13.420 but it does
00:32:14.320 deal with
00:32:14.800 federally regulated
00:32:15.920 areas
00:32:16.380 and one of those
00:32:17.200 is very key
00:32:18.420 which is the internet
00:32:19.580 and that was where
00:32:20.520 years ago
00:32:21.140 there was Section 13
00:32:22.120 which regulated
00:32:23.060 internet speech
00:32:24.340 is there a direct
00:32:25.640 connection that we
00:32:26.480 can draw between
00:32:27.460 Bill C-10
00:32:28.400 and a lot of
00:32:29.680 these things that
00:32:30.200 you're talking about
00:32:30.960 in a provincial context
00:32:31.940 at the federal level
00:32:32.900 with the online
00:32:34.040 harms bill
00:32:34.840 or online hate speech
00:32:35.860 bill that
00:32:36.460 Stephen Gilbeau
00:32:37.460 is talking about
00:32:38.300 wanting to introduce
00:32:39.320 any day now
00:32:40.040 yeah the problem
00:32:41.960 is that the
00:32:43.260 that the
00:32:44.540 Bill C-10
00:32:45.420 as it is currently
00:32:46.440 constituted
00:32:47.360 and probably
00:32:48.880 the the bill
00:32:49.820 that hasn't arrived
00:32:50.480 yet that you just
00:32:51.080 mentioned
00:32:51.420 will not be
00:32:53.840 quite so
00:32:54.420 straightforward
00:32:54.860 as to simply
00:32:56.160 ban discrimination
00:32:58.080 in the way
00:32:58.640 that I'm talking
00:32:59.220 about
00:32:59.520 what it does
00:33:00.180 instead probably
00:33:01.120 will be
00:33:01.920 to give
00:33:02.980 a federal agency
00:33:04.640 the power
00:33:05.440 to make
00:33:06.020 arbitrary decisions
00:33:07.140 about what's okay
00:33:07.960 and what's not okay
00:33:08.640 and so that's
00:33:09.600 that's the worst
00:33:10.160 of all worlds
00:33:10.780 not only do you
00:33:11.960 not have a list
00:33:12.900 of criteria
00:33:13.460 you have taken
00:33:14.980 the power
00:33:15.820 of speech
00:33:16.800 away from people
00:33:18.120 and given it
00:33:19.200 to the government
00:33:20.180 to supervise
00:33:20.980 you know that's
00:33:21.880 that's just bad news
00:33:22.920 all around
00:33:23.580 well
00:33:24.380 well I appreciate
00:33:25.420 your voice on
00:33:26.320 these matters
00:33:26.920 always we'll have
00:33:27.500 to have you back
00:33:27.940 on once we see
00:33:28.780 at long last
00:33:29.860 the text of
00:33:30.780 this online
00:33:31.980 hate speech bill
00:33:32.820 although you know
00:33:33.860 come to think of it
00:33:34.460 I think the proper
00:33:35.620 position on this
00:33:36.440 is that if we never
00:33:37.060 see it
00:33:37.440 it will be a good
00:33:38.080 thing for Canada
00:33:38.940 and a good thing
00:33:39.980 for free speech
00:33:40.660 but nevertheless
00:33:41.200 we'll have you back
00:33:41.860 on anytime
00:33:42.560 Bruce thanks very much
00:33:44.020 and you can check out
00:33:44.680 his National Post column
00:33:46.000 about this political
00:33:47.340 speech protection
00:33:48.260 in the National Post
00:33:49.680 political beliefs
00:33:50.620 must be protected
00:33:51.840 from discrimination
00:33:52.640 because cancel culture
00:33:54.820 is winning
00:33:55.660 Bruce always a pleasure
00:33:56.560 thanks for coming on
00:33:57.780 good stuff I do
00:33:58.340 thanks very much
00:33:59.400 that was Bruce Party
00:34:00.980 and with that
00:34:02.120 we have to bid adieu
00:34:03.180 for today's show
00:34:04.520 but fear not
00:34:05.120 we'll be back
00:34:05.620 in just a couple
00:34:06.380 of days time
00:34:06.920 with more of
00:34:07.940 Canada's most
00:34:08.900 irreverent talk show
00:34:09.840 this is the Andrew
00:34:10.780 Lawton show on
00:34:11.600 True North
00:34:12.020 thank you
00:34:12.700 God bless
00:34:13.240 and good day
00:34:13.900 thanks for listening
00:34:14.820 to the Andrew
00:34:15.420 Lawton show
00:34:16.020 support the program
00:34:17.080 by donating to
00:34:17.860 True North
00:34:18.300 at www.tnc.news
00:34:21.480 hearts
00:34:22.940 no
00:34:24.820 we'll be back
00:34:26.680 by
00:34:29.740 we'll be right
00:34:30.680 to
00:34:43.280 get