Juno News - A carbon tax revolt is underway

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:01:16.260 This is The Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:01:24.280 Hello and welcome to you all.

00:01:27.020 The Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:01:29.000 on this Thursday, March 14th.

00:01:31.200 I believe it is, my math is a little rusty

00:01:34.300 because it, well, it was never good to begin with,

00:01:36.000 but I believe it is Pi Day, is it not?

00:01:38.900 March 14th, 314, 3.1415, something, something.

00:01:43.600 I lose track at five, but Sean will,

00:01:46.640 Sean's already going in the chat.

00:01:47.780 So he'll actually be just typing out the digits of Pi

00:01:50.280 until the end of the show.

00:01:51.640 So if a clip doesn't play, that's why,

00:01:53.460 but we'll be up to like, you know, digit 97 or something.

00:01:56.580 But anyway, Pi Day notwithstanding,

00:01:58.460 I'm usually more into a different type of pie, not as infinite as the mathematical pie.

00:02:04.620 But I wanted to pick up where we started off talking yesterday, and it was kind of a last-minute change.

00:02:09.840 I called an audible because moments before the show began,

00:02:13.720 my colleague, True North's Alberta reporter and host of Alberta Roundup, Rachel Emanuel,

00:02:19.300 was very, I would say, rudely given the bums rush out of an Alberta technical college 1.00

00:02:25.780 when Justin Trudeau was holding a press conference.

00:02:27.800 He was addressing media, but only certain type of media, not True North and not Counter

00:02:35.200 Signal, which is run by Kian Bextie.

00:02:37.960 This was a rather shameful display, but as I remarked yesterday on the show, not all

00:02:42.640 that unsurprising.

00:02:44.680 I've had my own run-ins with Trudeau's bodyguards in the past who have barred me from getting

00:02:50.120 close to him, even where other journalists are permitted.

00:02:52.920 True North, you may recall, in 2019, actually had to sue her way in to the leaders debate. 0.99

00:02:58.760 This was not a Liberal Party event.

00:03:00.580 This was a Government of Canada-run event, the official election leaders debate.

00:03:04.740 We won, but it shows the lengths through which Trudeau and his minions do not want any independent journalists questioning them.

00:03:11.420 We were trying to get Rachel Emanuel on the show yesterday, but I think she was actually in a dead sprint to get away from the RCMP when the show was on.

00:03:18.900 But she did it, and she joins us now.

00:03:21.140 rachel good to talk to you i i was exaggerating a little bit there but but you actually did have

00:03:25.940 quite a serious encounter that started with the college's security and ended up with i think

00:03:30.980 calgary police and rcmp did you not yeah i mean it actually started even before that initially

00:03:36.020 earlier in the day we had gotten word that trudeau was at a hotel in calgary eventually we narrowed

00:03:41.220 it down to the sheraton you know you can kind of drive by the hotels keep a lookout for additional

00:03:45.300 security unmarked you know big black vehicles outside of them things like that a lot of times

00:03:49.700 these vehicles also have ontario license plates so we knew a little bit what to look for so we

00:03:54.020 figured that he was meeting alberta premier daniel smith at the sheraton and you know we headed on

00:03:58.740 into the hotel there into the lobby we're very quickly asked to leave you know maybe we should

00:04:03.140 have worn some security uniforms or something to look like we belong you know fair enough we waited

00:04:07.060 outside uh we caught danielle smith on her way out of a side exit there and she was happy to give us

00:04:11.860 a couple questions quickly of course alberta premier danielle smith often speaks with media

00:04:16.580 she's very fair about that and she also speaks to all types of media not just independent reporters

00:04:21.620 or conservative reporters those that would tend to be a little bit more supportive of her policies

00:04:26.420 then you know we were waiting in a vehicle so we could follow trudeau's motorcade so we could get

00:04:30.420 the location of his press conference and even while we were simply sitting in our vehicle

00:04:34.260 waiting for the motorcade to leave police was already giving us a hard time oh you can't wait

00:04:37.700 here oh you can't park you have to move over there you have to move over here once the motorcade left

00:04:41.940 you know police vehicles driving in front of us very slowly so we couldn't you know get around

00:04:46.580 them get closer to the motorcade of course then we were listening to the press conference once the

00:04:51.300 question period of the press conference started the moderator said the first question is going

00:04:56.420 to go to the state reporter and that's when keen put it together oh they're at state so he went to

00:05:00.100 say sure enough there we see his motorcade so we're just kind of waiting waiting in the building

00:05:04.420 there for him to come down we were going to just try to ask him some questions as he walked over

00:05:07.780 over to his motorcade. And then, you know, RCMP, Calgary police, they're all there. They're all

00:05:12.920 giving us a very hard time. As soon as we walked out of that building, we were listening to the

00:05:16.380 press conference and we figured, eh, once it comes close to an end, we'll walk out. We'll wait near

00:05:20.720 the motorcade so that we can get our questions in as he, you know, it's a mere 30 seconds,

00:05:25.020 10 seconds, maybe even he's walking from the building to his motorcade. We've all seen the

00:05:28.560 clips of reporters following him from buildings to vehicles. And even that, you know, they take

00:05:32.640 issue with, they start moving the vehicles so that we can't even get a view of him. And then

00:05:37.080 the police starts being like you got to move further back you got to move back you know they're

00:05:40.060 trying to push us back at us as far as way as you can you can see a little gap between the vehicles

00:05:43.900 and the clip that you're playing and that was basically as close as we were going to get and

00:05:46.780 even that they were you know frustrated with they kept trying to push us back make things difficult 0.68

00:05:50.660 for us it was one of the most pathetic displays i've ever seen and you can only think to yourself

00:05:54.420 imagine if they use this kind of energy to actually fix some of the actual countries

00:05:59.180 some of the issues that we have going on in our country things would look a whole lot better and

00:06:02.720 then of course just I think it was probably three minutes before he finally finished that press

00:06:07.500 conference and came out uh state security came up to us and said nope you know we don't want you to

00:06:12.840 be here you're not accredited media you have to leave and once they say it's a trespassing issue

00:06:17.760 you do have to leave very quickly or you will be charged with trespassing that's about a $300 fine

00:06:22.280 I know that Kian has run into that issue with the past during the general election

00:06:25.620 when independent media had these same issues with you know trying to go to NDP press conferences

00:06:31.620 so then it gets a little more dodgy and you know trespassing charge isn't the most serious of

00:06:36.180 things but i think best to avoid it if you can yeah i mean some journalists i guess probably

00:06:41.040 collect them as as a badge of honor but at a certain point if the prime minister rents out

00:06:45.480 a hotel ballroom uh for all intents and purposes that's private property and the hotel ballroom

00:06:50.160 could uh trespass you so i i get why uh you you moved outside there same thing happened when i was

00:06:56.100 kicked out of uh what was it laurentian university in thunder bay uh trying to attend a trudeau

00:07:01.180 event. Once they say it's private property and you can't be here, it doesn't matter that Trudeau's

00:07:04.340 there or not. But I would actually say it goes beyond, it goes earlier than the Sheridan,

00:07:08.820 because you had done the thing that you're supposed to do the night before, you requested

00:07:12.200 accreditation. But they do this thing now where they, on Trudeau's itinerary, they don't even

00:07:16.460 announce where the event is going to be. You have to request accreditation. And they try to basically

00:07:22.540 make it so that no one can do what you did by just not responding. So they made a concerted

00:07:27.400 effort early on that you were not going to be permitted absolutely and just to give your

00:07:32.780 audience a full picture of what's going on behind the scenes there is they've really started to lock

00:07:37.640 these events down that trudeau is at they do not want people to know where he is they do not want

00:07:42.760 protesters showing up trudeau is hated in canada right now and especially in the west and people

00:07:48.180 tend to find out where these events are happening they tend to find out where he's staying and they

00:07:51.680 go and protest and so we've seen them really up the ante and trying to keep these things secret

00:07:55.480 I sent out a lot of requests a lot of people in the province who are always in the know

00:07:59.400 did not know where either of these events were happening they didn't know where the meeting with

00:08:02.700 the premier was happening and they didn't know where that dental care announcement was happening

00:08:06.680 so things were really under wraps this time and we just saw the police go to that extra effort

00:08:11.180 just to make sure that two little journalists wouldn't be able to even so much as ask the 0.98

00:08:15.740 prime minister a question because that would be too much of a nuisance for our beloved prime

00:08:19.460 minister and we couldn't offend his ears with you know some some conservative journalists asking him

00:08:24.000 some questions. We saw something similar with the Alberta NDP. They really tried hard to keep their

00:08:30.340 press conferences and their announcements under wraps, but in that case, they were also trying

00:08:36.020 to get the word out to have other people come, so they didn't do so very effectively, and we

00:08:39.440 typically found them in advance. But it's going to be interesting to see what future visits from

00:08:43.300 the Prime Minister to Calgary look like, because I think they've decided this is the new model that

00:08:47.200 they're going to use, where they're just going to be super secretive. We couldn't even get

00:08:50.580 information from the premier's office. The premier's office said, no, we can't share this.

00:08:55.180 That would be a breach of security contract with the prime minister's office. So they were taking

00:08:59.420 this very seriously as well. And I was a little bit like, well, what's the prime minister ever

00:09:02.720 done for Alberta? Yeah. Has he earned that? Has he earned that from them? Just to go to the policy

00:09:08.460 aspect here, we've seen this week and I'll be talking about it in a moment, this carbon tax

00:09:12.920 revolt being waged by seven of 10 provincial premiers so far. Ground zero for that has really

00:09:19.200 been Alberta. So to some extent, I mean, Trudeau yesterday was in the belly of the beast here,

00:09:24.060 but absolutely unrepentant when he asked. He went on, I think it was like some eight minute long

00:09:28.240 rant defending the carbon tax yesterday at that presser, didn't he?

00:09:32.300 Pretty remarkable. I mean, Justin Trudeau is someone who doesn't learn his lessons. He's

00:09:36.080 someone who doesn't care what the Canadian people think. We understand that because he chooses to

00:09:40.220 stay at the most expensive hotels wherever he travels. This has been a controversy for the

00:09:45.600 prime minister time and time again. He simply does not care about the cost of his luxury lifestyle

00:09:52.280 that he's passing on to taxpayers. That's one thing that's been incredibly obvious for us.

00:09:56.700 Another thing is even the simple fact that he won't allow a regular person like myself into

00:10:01.240 his press conferences to ask questions because I'm not considered an elite accredited media.

00:10:05.300 I'm honestly just a mom. I've got a very successful podcast, one of the most listened to shows in

00:10:09.880 Alberta, if not the most popular political podcast in the province. And he isn't even willing to give

00:10:14.560 me so much as a question or to allow me to enter a room that he's in or probably even look in the

00:10:19.600 same direction as him if we're being honest so this is a prime minister who generally hates

00:10:24.360 canadians and so i'm not surprised that he's not budging on the carbon tax something i will say

00:10:28.260 that is interesting is that i had cheryl out on my show the alberta roundup yesterday she used to be 1.00

00:10:33.180 the director of communications for former alberta premier rachel notley who as we know is resigning

00:10:37.920 once a new leader is selected and she said that the carbon tax is poison in alberta right now

00:10:43.640 It's an extremely unpopular policy. She said that while she agrees with what the policy is trying to accomplish, it's just not going to be very feasible for politicians in Alberta right now. So here we even have someone who worked for the Alberta NDP signaling the fact that this is a policy that's really a no-go right now. So even she can kind of understand this is something we need to change direction on, but not Trudeau because this is a man who is unwilling to admit when he's wrong.

00:11:08.300 Very well said, Rachel Emanuel.

00:11:10.220 Glad you emerged unscathed, no handcuffs, no trespassing ticket, but good on you for trying.

00:11:16.000 Maybe he'll take some time before returning to Alberta because of your effort.

00:11:19.740 So I appreciate your time as always, Rachel.

00:11:21.980 Happy to be here. See you guys.

00:11:23.540 All right. Thank you for that.

00:11:24.840 And just on the provincial aspect here, I want to talk about this because this is quite a significant issue.

00:11:30.040 We're talking about this carbon tax revolt that has been waged by 7 of 10 premiers right now.

00:11:37.000 So the Premier of Alberta, Danielle Smith, the Premier of Saskatchewan, Scott Moe.

00:11:41.200 I shouldn't commit to naming them all because I usually get a little foggy when I get to Atlantic Canada.

00:11:45.760 But no, I think I know I can do them all.

00:11:47.520 I'm going to do it.

00:11:48.180 All right.

00:11:48.740 We have Alberta Premier, Danielle Smith, Saskatchewan Premier, Scott Moe.

00:11:51.980 We have Ontario Premier, Doug Ford.

00:11:55.080 Oh, I'm already losing track.

00:11:56.300 No.

00:11:56.860 And then we have Newfoundland Premier, Andrew Fury.

00:11:59.540 We have Dennis King in PEI.

00:12:02.000 We have Blaine Higgs in New Brunswick and Tim Houston in Nova Scotia.

00:12:06.540 That is seven right there.

00:12:08.160 The other three, David Eby, Wob Canoe, and, of course, Francois Legault from BC, Manitoba, and Quebec, respectively, are the lone three.

00:12:17.900 Sean was trying to give me notes, by the way.

00:12:20.120 I want it known I didn't even look at them.

00:12:21.940 I did those all by memory.

00:12:23.360 Sometimes I call Anthony Fury the premier of Newfoundland, though, which I'm not sure either appreciates the confusion on.

00:12:29.980 But only three premiers have not done what those seven have done.

00:12:35.140 And those are the premiers of B.C., Manitoba and Quebec, which are all very much all in.

00:12:40.600 Well, Manitoba is a bit of a weird case, but Quebec and B.C. are all in on the carbon tax.

00:12:45.820 The other seven, some liberals and some conservatives in there are saying, hey, we need to give our people a break.

00:12:53.380 We need to give our people a break.

00:12:54.900 And it's fascinating to me that it's been this issue that has united politicians from different party stripes.

00:13:02.920 one of the galvanizing forces has been this increase to the carbon tax, which is coming in

00:13:08.280 September, or sorry, coming April 1st. So just two weeks from now, the carbon tax is going up

00:13:14.660 yet again, and it has several increases built in. After this year, it's going to continue

00:13:19.860 to increase. And Wob Canoe, so yesterday he was pushed on this because Manitobans, I mean,

00:13:26.440 Manitoba is not a warm place.

00:13:29.280 No one says let's vacation in balmy Manitoba.

00:13:32.220 It is a very cold place.

00:13:34.260 So Wob Canoe knows full well that the people he represents are grappling with the cost of the carbon tax.

00:13:40.320 It's also a very rural place.

00:13:42.040 People need to drive to get around.

00:13:43.560 There's no big subway that goes from Winnipeg to Churchill so that people can just take public transit.

00:13:48.740 This is a significant challenge, but he won't even say whether or not he has asked the government

00:13:56.120 to put the brakes on the increase.

00:13:58.960 Take a look at this clip.

00:14:00.800 Well, we've been very clear

00:14:01.820 that Manitoba is a really strong case to make

00:14:03.920 in terms of the carbon backstop

00:14:07.320 not being applied in our province.

00:14:08.760 And that's because Manitobans

00:14:10.560 have made huge investments in renewable power.

00:14:13.240 And we have a low carbon energy source here in Manitoba.

00:14:17.020 So our province has taken action to help you.

00:14:19.520 We've cut the provincial gas tax.

00:14:21.040 That's 14 cents a liter

00:14:22.120 that you save every time you gas up.

00:14:24.120 And so we're going to continue to make life more affordable for people.

00:14:27.080 Sorry, my question was, will you ask the federal government to cancel the planned carbon increase?

00:14:32.300 Well, we've made a very clear statement on an ongoing basis that Manitoba is a really strong case to make.

00:14:37.960 And we're going to continue to make that case that we don't need the backstop here in Manitoba.

00:14:42.500 So you will ask them not to? You're going to make a formal request?

00:14:47.500 Who's to say we haven't? That would be an assumption.

00:14:50.500 Have you?

00:14:50.900 That would be an assumption.

00:14:51.900 Have you?

00:14:52.380 Have you made that request?

00:14:55.580 You know, conversations that we have with the federal level are private until we decide to make them public.

00:15:01.500 Will you ask the federal government to pause the carbon tax increase?

00:15:05.920 Who's to say we haven't?

00:15:07.280 Okay, well, have you?

00:15:08.460 Oh, that's confidential.

00:15:09.660 I can't say it.

00:15:10.380 So he won't even say whether he's had a conversation with the federal government asking them for relief on the carbon tax.

00:15:17.280 Now, this is perhaps the NDP in Manitoba getting a little bit of pressure from its federal NDP friends, maybe not wanting to make them look bad.

00:15:25.300 Alberta NDP leadership candidates right now are completely against the carbon tax.

00:15:30.220 It's been fascinating to see that even the left wing NDP in Alberta knows it cannot sell a carbon tax to people in that province.

00:15:39.280 So none of those people vying for the leadership of the NDP, which is already a bit of a thankless job.

00:15:44.140 You've got folks like Sarah Hoffman there and now Nahid Nenshi entering the race. 1.00

00:15:48.520 They're all saying, yeah, most of them, not all, are saying, well, we think the carbon tax is toxic, so we are not going to run on that.

00:15:55.620 Now, in spite of this, when seven of ten first ministers in the federation are saying to the prime minister, you've got to stop this,

00:16:03.060 this is, in my view, verging on a crisis in federalism for a piece of legislation whose constitutionality is already a little bit dubious.

00:16:12.260 I mean, yes, the Supreme Court has upheld the carbon tax, but it was on very narrow grounds that they ultimately sided with the government's argument that this was a matter of federal jurisdiction.

00:16:22.420 So politically, morally, Justin Trudeau should be making a much greater appeal to his provincial counterparts who are not meant to be subordinates.

00:16:31.440 They're meant to be, it's meant to be where the Justin Trudeau prime minister role right now is the first among equals.

00:16:37.920 He has his domain. The provincial premiers has their domain.

00:16:41.580 But instead, he looks at them as minions that have to do his bidding when he orders a carbon tax on the beleaguered residents of those governments that were not putting forward policies of that nature.

00:16:53.020 Now, Scott Moe in Saskatchewan, they've, I think, been the most aggressive because they've actually just stopped paying the government.

00:16:58.880 They have stopped remitting the tax.

00:17:01.140 This was Trudeau's response to that yesterday.

00:17:03.320 Given that Saskatchewan has decided not to rebate the carbon tax, there's been some

00:17:11.480 question over possible penalties over the Saskatchewan Premier breaking the law.

00:17:16.280 It's something that Danielle Smith has been worried about as well.

00:17:20.280 And it all seems to kind of come back to the carve out for the home heating oil back in

00:17:25.080 Atlantic Canada. So the question is, what would these consequences be for not rebating the tax?

00:17:31.480 on the decision by the government of Saskatchewan

00:17:36.760 to not pay its taxes to the federal government.

00:17:42.140 As we've seen from a few different premiers,

00:17:44.760 you can use the notwithstanding clause

00:17:46.740 to opt out of basic charter rights of Canadians.

00:17:51.020 I think it's a bad idea, but a number of people are doing it.

00:17:53.660 You can opt out of the charter of rights and freedoms

00:17:55.720 by using the notwithstanding clause.

00:17:58.060 but you can't opt out of the federation you can't opt out of canada we have we are a country of laws

00:18:09.000 we're a country of rules and responsibilities and it was it's evolved over 150 plus years

00:18:18.180 to be this extraordinarily successful country we have

00:18:21.520 and we expect people to obey the law that's what governments expect of their citizens

00:18:29.740 that's what citizens should expect of their governments he says you can't opt out of the

00:18:37.140 federation but that's exactly what he's doing by taking such a scornful and disdainful view

00:18:42.640 of the provinces again there many of them are not even saying get rid of the carbon tax altogether

00:18:48.060 they're saying hey maybe you cool it on the increase on just adding insult to injury rubbing

00:18:53.260 salt in the wound uh kicking them when they're down pick your cliche pick your metaphor but he

00:18:58.300 they're saying just don't do the increase that just don't increase the gas tax the carbon tax

00:19:04.300 the heating tax the cost of living even further in two weeks give us a break is what they're saying

00:19:09.820 and he's saying yeah doesn't matter and when provincial premiers like danielle smith like 0.96

00:19:15.180 like the environment minister in Alberta, Rebecca Schultz,

00:19:17.660 both of whom have been on the show many times,

00:19:19.740 have said they cannot even have a relationship

00:19:22.460 with the federal environment minister, Stephen Gilbeau.

00:19:25.940 This is what Justin Trudeau says about those concerns.

00:19:29.540 In regards to my environment minister,

00:19:33.360 I have tremendous faith and confidence in my environment minister.

00:19:37.860 And if people are having trouble getting along with them,

00:19:41.540 maybe they need to look at their own approach to these big issues as opposed to looking at what

00:19:48.060 he's talking about, which is consistent with building a better future for everyone.

00:19:54.340 Oh, isn't that nice? It's right up there with Albertans should elect more Liberal MPs if they

00:19:59.400 want a seat at the table. It's, well, if people can't work with Stephen Gobeau, that's their

00:20:04.020 problem, not his, not ours, not mine. Justin Trudeau is saying it's his way or the highway,

00:20:09.940 except there's no highway because Stephen Gilboa wants to effectively ban roads. So tough for all

00:20:14.880 of us here. Let's delve into this with Colin Craig. He is the president of SecondStreet.org,

00:20:19.600 which does a lot of tremendous work on health care, which is, I think, at its core, a federalism

00:20:24.440 debate that takes place. And I know he's also done work on carbon taxes and the like as well.

00:20:29.620 Colin, good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on today. Just before we delve into the meat of the

00:20:34.460 carbon tax stuff, what do you make of this fractured relationship between provinces and

00:20:39.240 government we're not just talking here about you know one lone renegade western premier that is

00:20:44.200 having difficulty with the trudeau policy you've got seven of ten premiers representing the majority

00:20:49.560 of the population and of the provinces that are saying to the government stop doing this thing

00:20:55.720 well look it's always interesting and entertaining when a policy you think is a failure uh starts to

00:21:02.840 fail and everyone can see it uh at least almost everyone i mean it at its core the carbon tax is

00:21:08.040 bad public policy. There's no doubt about it. The way that the federal government has gone about

00:21:12.280 this, it's bad public policy. It's failing. I think most politicians are able to smell that out.

00:21:19.260 They can see it's bad policy. It's not a good decision. And so they're rebelling. Like you

00:21:23.620 said, at the provincial level, you've got all these premiers. You said seven. I think there's

00:21:27.640 a case to argue that lob canoes, so maybe seven and a half, eight, because I mean, he's basically

00:21:33.460 rejected the policy by cutting their own provincial gas tax to give Manitobans some

00:21:40.240 breathing room there. So, you know, I think you've got most politicians in the country realizing and

00:21:46.160 saying this is a bad policy. You got to back away from it. Canadians are struggling right now.

00:21:50.780 Businesses are struggling. Certainly many of them are. And yet you've got the prime minister just

00:21:56.100 going full steam ahead on a really bad policy. It's bad politics too, Andrew. I mean, look,

00:22:02.280 he's down and out in the polls. He's way behind. Cost of living is the number one issue. And he

00:22:08.400 just keeps raising taxes. Like it's a bad, bad decision politically. It's bad economically.

00:22:15.440 It is what it is now. Well, and look, I ran for office once previously. And one of the things

00:22:21.540 that really stood out to me was that of all the thousands and thousands of doors I knocked on and

00:22:26.500 people I spoke to, when I asked, you know, what your number one issue was, only one person out of

00:22:31.360 I think 22,000 doors said environment.

00:22:34.620 And that's not to say it's not an issue that matters.

00:22:36.340 It's not to say it's an issue that matters to people,

00:22:38.220 but it tends to be issues like that in my experience

00:22:41.720 tend to be secondary when your house is on fire.

00:22:45.620 And by that, I mean your economic house,

00:22:47.340 when you can't afford groceries,

00:22:48.720 when you can't afford to fill up your car.

00:22:50.380 A lot of these things look like luxury items.

00:22:52.820 And I think it would be reasonable

00:22:54.440 for the government to say, listen,

00:22:55.640 we think that just to use their own framing for a moment,

00:22:59.220 And I think that climate is really important.

00:23:02.140 I think carbon tax is the best way to get there.

00:23:04.260 However, I realize that right now Canadians are struggling.

00:23:07.840 We're going to just put a pause on this while still committing to the overall policy and

00:23:11.160 objective.

00:23:11.920 But the issue is they know if they do that, they're going to have to be the ones that

00:23:14.780 reintroduce it at a certain point.

00:23:16.280 But you're right that it's bad politics also, because right now you have seven, seven and

00:23:21.140 a half fingers pointing at the federal government saying, you guys are the reason that people

00:23:25.900 are having to deal with this increase.

00:23:27.800 And that's not something they had when they first sold this policy.

00:23:31.460 No, it's not.

00:23:32.520 I mean, let's step back for a second here.

00:23:35.200 When has a prime minister in this country created a tax for everyone else but himself?

00:23:40.540 I mean, there's probably only a handful of people in this country that don't really have to pay the carbon tax.

00:23:46.920 The prime minister.

00:23:48.400 Why?

00:23:48.840 Because you and I and all your viewers and all the taxpayers in this country pay to heat his residence.

00:23:54.360 so he's not paying the carbon tax when he has to heat his residence uh he's not filling up any car

00:24:00.740 at the pumps like the rest of us right he gets chauffeured around someone's always paying for

00:24:05.840 his transportation doesn't have to pay for their i mean taxpayers pay i believe for some of his

00:24:10.400 groceries and meals and so forth so he's essentially created this tax that he doesn't have to pay

00:24:15.760 everyone else does and and so that could be part of why he doesn't understand why so many people

00:24:21.500 are upset. Never mind the fact that he's making close to $400,000 a year. He's got a golden

00:24:26.000 pension and so forth. I mean, he's not feeling this issue the same way that everyday Canadians

00:24:31.200 are. His cabinet certainly isn't either. I mean, they're extremely well paid, again,

00:24:35.660 golden pension and so forth. They don't have to feel that. But, you know, I think media need to

00:24:41.140 maybe point that out to him. The second thing is why I think this is failing is just look at his

00:24:45.840 own behavior right i mean since he declared a climate emergency in parliament he's traveled

00:24:52.940 to costa rica twice he's traveled down to jamaica twice he's flown to montana he's gone to tofino

00:25:00.020 a couple times like i mean he's flying all over the place in the government's private jet

00:25:04.960 and i don't think anyone can begrudge a prime minister for wanting to have some vacation time

00:25:10.280 but he is saying that there's a climate emergency and he is routinely getting into an airplane

00:25:17.400 flying all over the place and creating all kinds of unnecessary emissions by his own standard

00:25:23.460 so i mean he is just demonstrating that the carbon tax has failed or else he would have

00:25:28.660 changed his own behavior and he hasn't so yeah and that's the problem is that there tends to be

00:25:34.240 from defenders of the carbon tax a significant overstatement of how many of these carbon emitting

00:25:40.880 things are are uh are optional or elective for people i mean if you live in the country and

00:25:46.320 you've got to drive your kids to school uh 50 50 minutes or something or if you have to drive to

00:25:52.320 work a certain distance or if you need to buy groceries for your family i mean these are not

00:25:57.120 discretionary things so uh the average canadian is forced to just look at the increased price and

00:26:02.080 and say, okay, I guess I'm paying that

00:26:03.760 and not say, maybe I'm only going to drive

00:26:06.060 three quarters of the way to school this morning.

00:26:08.900 Yeah, I mean, you're exactly right.

00:26:10.480 You talked about Manitoba before.

00:26:12.020 I'm from there originally.

00:26:13.260 I mean, it gets extremely freezing cold in the winter.

00:26:16.420 It's not like you can, as you just know,

00:26:18.620 you can't just go, yeah,

00:26:19.660 maybe we'll go without heat this winter.

00:26:21.380 No, you'll die.

00:26:22.640 You'll die if you don't have proper heat

00:26:25.440 in Manitoba in the winter.

00:26:27.180 I mean, we just, for our TV show,

00:26:28.720 we did an episode on heat pumps recently

00:26:30.460 and people keep talking about heat pumps.

00:26:32.080 Very fascinating technology. Maybe it gets better in the future, but you're not surviving in Manitoba all winter on a heat pump. It just won't work. You need to have that natural gas component. Maybe a heat pump can help a bit, but we're not there. I mean, we need these things like natural gas to heat our homes. We need things like gasoline to power our vehicles and so forth.

00:26:55.080 I mean, the idea that we're all switching to electric cars anytime soon, that's fantasy.

00:27:01.000 They cost a fortune and, you know, a lot of households are struggling right now to get

00:27:06.460 by and never mind having to drop $50,000 or whatever on an electric car, right?

00:27:11.560 This doesn't add up, Andrew.

00:27:13.400 No, it certainly does not.

00:27:15.740 Colin Craig from secondstreet.org, great work there.

00:27:18.780 I wanted to ask you briefly, just while I had you here, about Mark Holland, because

00:27:22.940 know this way he got under your uh under your skin this past week i think he did yeah i mean he's

00:27:28.620 just is another example i think of how the elite in this country are often detached from everyday

00:27:34.300 people i mean if you're a politician you got a lot of money and resources if you ever face a

00:27:39.260 long wait time in the healthcare system you can go abroad you don't have to worry about it he was

00:27:42.860 kind of poo-pooing people that do that and and saying like it's it's not necessary we can't allow

00:27:48.060 that to happen in canada blah blah blah but reality is a lot of people are suffering in this country

00:27:53.660 it's not just the wealthy that are going abroad i mean we're talking all the time with mid-linked

00:27:58.620 people who are doing it they're suffering they're living with chronic chronic pain and people can't

00:28:03.820 do that for a year or two it's inhumane so we need health reform we need a mature discussion about

00:28:09.820 this in this country to see start to see these reforms happen and ottawa's approach is let's just

00:28:14.700 throw more money at the health care system and hope things work out and it's not adding up i mean

00:28:20.540 we've got to move beyond this simply throwing money at the system stage and

00:28:24.540 our call and i don't think it's the minister to to take us there colin craig thank you very much

00:28:29.020 sir thanks andrew always appreciate the chat all right likewise one of the most worrying trends

00:28:36.780 we have seen in canada in the last couple of years has been the weaponization of the judicial process

00:28:43.420 and how, first off, absent the judicial process is when it comes to matters of civil liberty.

00:28:49.320 But even when you look at the way that certain cases are prosecuted,

00:28:52.140 we've all seen stories of this revolving door for people that are arrested

00:28:56.200 for very violent or very despicable offenses,

00:29:00.240 and they find themselves out on bail basically immediately.

00:29:03.800 And then you have, in contrast with that, cases like that of Tamara Leach and Chris Barber,

00:29:08.740 two of the organizers of the Freedom Convoy who were arrested in February 2022 didn't go on trial

00:29:16.060 until September 2023 and we are now six months later and their trial is still underway with no

00:29:24.500 immediately discernible or identified end in sight. Now in the case of Tamara Leach she languished

00:29:31.640 behind bars I think it was for about 49 days if memory serves whereas Chris Barber was fortunate

00:29:36.980 enough to get released on bail not long after his arrest but the cases of both of them i think

00:29:43.300 raise significant questions about whether there is a politicized a politicization of the prosecution

00:29:49.460 uh you look in contrast to the case in coots four now this is a bit of a trickier one because there

00:29:54.900 has been for a lot of this a publication ban around key details so i haven't actually been

00:30:00.020 able to talk about a lot of the case because of this limitation but what we do know is that two

00:30:04.580 of the coots four were released on lesser charges uh the other two are still incarcerated have been

00:30:10.660 denied bail and they are awaiting trial on charges of a conspiracy to kill police officers again very

00:30:17.380 serious charges but they like anyone else have a right to their day in court but i've heard more

00:30:22.500 than ever before in the time i've covered crime and justice issues people that simply do not trust

00:30:28.100 the justice system. And there was a fascinating essay in the C2C Journal about the worrisome

00:30:34.600 wave of politicized prosecutions. It was written by Gwyn Morgan, who is a legend in the Canadian

00:30:41.560 oil and gas sector. He was the CEO of Encana back when, well, back when it was Encana and also back

00:30:46.740 when it was a Canadian company. And he's always been a tremendous supporter of True North. Gwyn

00:30:51.460 Morgan, good to have you back on the show. Thank you so much for your time. Can you hear me, Gwyn?

00:30:58.100 I don't know if you can hear me. I hear noise coming from your end.

00:31:04.960 All right, we'll have to sort out that audio issue there and get Gwynne back. But this is

00:31:10.820 an essay that was a very fascinating and very evocative read. And it's always important when

00:31:15.980 you're writing about or reporting on justice issues to separate someone's crime or alleged

00:31:22.620 crime from your assessment of the justice system itself. And it's the same as when you

00:31:28.860 talk about free speech, you need to be able to talk about the essence of free speech and the

00:31:32.740 importance of free speech and do so in a way that is dispassionate compared to the individual

00:31:39.720 expressions. But at the other side of that, you have to also look at just the fundamental

00:31:46.580 principles of justice. And what are the rights people have? People have a right to face their

00:31:51.080 accuser they have a right to know what their charges are they have a right to see the case

00:31:54.740 against them and crucially they have a right to a speedy trial now I don't pretend to be a lawyer

00:32:00.660 I've covered a lot of cases and I've picked up some of the legal principles along the way

00:32:05.500 but when you have cases that last years and someone is denied bail in that time period

00:32:11.700 and no one has seen the case against them it makes it very difficult for the public

00:32:16.380 which is supposed to have,

00:32:18.360 the public needs to hold the justice system in repute

00:32:20.740 for the justice system to have any legitimacy whatsoever.

00:32:24.780 You have people in the public

00:32:25.940 that are unable to really deal with this.

00:32:28.480 And it's not to say that the court of public opinion

00:32:30.920 is driving the real court process

00:32:33.460 and the real legal process.

00:32:34.980 But if you don't have confidence in the system,

00:32:38.500 if you don't have confidence in the process,

00:32:40.320 the process itself just is basically meaningless.

00:32:43.620 And that's when you have cases

00:32:44.660 where people are protesting outside courts

00:32:47.020 because they just believe that everyone is co-opted.

00:32:50.800 And again, it's an amusing story,

00:32:52.560 but I think it's relevant to this.

00:32:54.320 This week, there was a Supreme Court decision

00:32:56.920 and the Supreme Court decision was,

00:33:00.280 it had a paragraph that was just

00:33:02.560 one of the most bizarrely worded,

00:33:04.760 sloppily worded paragraphs

00:33:06.060 in which Justice Sheila Martin,

00:33:08.060 who was appointed by Justin Trudeau,

00:33:09.880 I think in 2017,

00:33:11.980 you had Sheila Martin say

00:33:14.380 that a woman was a confusing word and instead of using woman you should use the less confusing 0.96

00:33:21.180 person with a vagina and this was summarily mocked by a lot of observers then people said well no 0.96

00:33:27.820 she didn't say that what she actually meant was this and and it kind of underscores the confusion 0.98

00:33:31.900 there because someone's reading what is officially law in canada now part of a supreme court decision

00:33:37.740 and they can't seem to agree on what it's all about and then you had the supreme court the

00:33:41.820 female justices on the supreme court last week on international women's day march 8th they were all 0.98

00:33:47.820 posing for this photo and the accompanying tweet was basically talking about gender-based

00:33:53.660 appointments to the court instead of merit-based appointments and again how can you have confidence

00:33:59.420 in the justice system when this is the type of rhetoric that courts are putting out and to bring

00:34:05.500 bring it back into the covet realm for a moment you may recall there was a case in uh well it

00:34:11.260 it wasn't a case. It was an interview. I think it was with Le Devoir. It was a French language

00:34:16.560 publication that the Chief Justice Richard Wagner did. And in that interview, he was speaking about

00:34:22.500 the Freedom Convoy and spoke about Ottawa being under siege. He spoke about these, basically this

00:34:29.040 lawlessness, I think anarchy, I think he used the word anarchy in the streets of Ottawa. And here

00:34:34.040 you have a case where, okay, the Chief Justice is playing political pundit now. How is he to respond

00:34:41.160 when a case about the Freedom Convoy invariably goes before the Supreme Court? And how are people

00:34:46.720 supposed to have confidence in his decision when he has already given his personal opinion about

00:34:51.580 this thing that may be at the core of a case? So I think there are plenty of reasons that people

00:34:57.760 can and are, can distrust and are generally distrustful of the justice system and of the

00:35:04.920 justice process. But it brings about the bigger question of how do you restore that trust,

00:35:10.740 especially when it looks like there is a politicization underway and there is politicking

00:35:16.240 going on in what is supposed to be, again, reason free from passion. The old line, I believe it was

00:35:21.680 Aristotle said, or at least is often attributed to Aristotle. I realized I learned it was Aristotle

00:35:27.020 from Legally Blonde, and I'm not sure if Legally Blonde had accurately quoted him, but nevertheless,

00:35:32.340 Legally Blonde notwithstanding, this is why I'm not a lawyer, because I just quote

00:35:36.140 Reese Witherspoon chick flicks when I'm talking about the law.

00:35:39.320 But all of that notwithstanding, we have Gwyn Morgan back on.

00:35:42.720 We've sorted out the gremlins in the system here.

00:35:44.700 Gwyn, good to have you back on.

00:35:46.300 Thanks for coming today.

00:35:47.240 Oh, thank you.

00:35:47.840 And the reason I have this passion, I'm not trying to be like the old Captain Morgan the pirate.

00:35:53.340 It's really because I just had an eye operation and I have to have it on for a few days.

00:35:57.940 All right.

00:35:58.300 Well, I hope you're healing up and I appreciate you not letting you get in the way of our interview, the schedule today.

00:36:03.800 But so you've delved into this incredibly important issue here in the politicization of the political process.

00:36:09.700 And I'm always clear to say that, you know, we have to see in some of these cases which are still ongoing, what the courts are going to find and what the facts are.

00:36:17.900 But why was this bothering you so much looking at this from the sidelines?

00:36:22.040 Well, when you look at this whole situation, when you talk about the truckers convoy, the prosecution of them,

00:36:28.800 There's been eight persons associated with the convoys, both at Coutts and in Ottawa, who have served nine years in jail without parole, with which what now a judge has ruled is not even a crime.

00:36:46.500 And yet, you know, we open the papers every few days and we see a violent, somebody killed by someone released on the catch and release system, committing a murder, a horrible murder.

00:36:57.860 And so the only explanation for this, Andrew, is political interference in the justice system.

00:37:06.080 And I think it starts at the top.

00:37:09.420 Let's unpack that for a moment, because do you think the issue is that there is a case of judges taking their marching orders, perhaps not explicitly, but implicitly from political leaders?

00:37:20.340 Or do you think it's just in who's getting appointed to the bench?

00:37:22.840 Do you think it's just that leaders are appointing judges of a certain political persuasion and this is just their bias on display?

00:37:30.500 Well, there's no doubt about the first part, about the last part of that.

00:37:33.180 I mean, the Supreme Court, the head of the Supreme Court, just a recent, he's been appointed by Trudeau.

00:37:43.940 And so the court is, there's no question the Supreme Court is now politicized to an extent that probably never before.

00:37:52.840 yeah and and you had mentioned in your piece the story that i just shared on the show a moment ago

00:37:58.980 of him doing an interview and i mean the idea of supreme court justice is doing interviews

00:38:02.960 i think is problematic for a number of reasons this is one of them but he gives his opinion

00:38:07.820 about this issue that like anyone knows is going to end up before him as a case in some form whether

00:38:14.300 it's someone appealing their criminal charge or whether it's the emergencies act going before the

00:38:19.000 Supreme Court, but he's already now put on record that he believes the Freedom Convoy was holding

00:38:23.140 people hostage. So how is he expected to set that aside when he makes an adjudication on the convoy

00:38:29.920 or a case related to it? He can't be expected and he won't. That's the problem. I mean,

00:38:35.340 we've had, what we've had is eight persons arrested for participation in Freedom Convoys

00:38:42.180 and they have served nine years nine years in jail without parole

00:38:49.500 for something that now has been ruled not even it's not even it's been ruled by a recent judge

00:38:56.560 it's not even a crime so where do you think this issue started or when do you think it started

00:39:03.320 because i i would say that there have probably been i i think that the issues are a lot more

00:39:07.560 explicit and in your face now but i i don't think this is a new phenomenon i i wouldn't even argue

00:39:11.960 and you may disagree gwen that i wouldn't even argue it started with justin trudeau

00:39:17.080 well i don't know it seems like that's such a long time ago my friend stephen harper would

00:39:23.000 would have wouldn't have had anything like this so i think that the whole deterioration of the

00:39:27.480 systems is is consistent with their trudeau uh reign and his actions on the freedom con on the on

00:39:35.240 and the Emergencies Act itself were now seen to be unnecessary and possibly illegal.

00:39:44.440 Yeah, and you had mentioned, just to go back to that point we were discussing a few moments ago

00:39:48.880 about, you know, whether this is, you know, whether they're picking up implicit signals,

00:39:52.900 these judges, or getting direct interference.

00:39:56.280 No one seems interested in asking.

00:39:58.440 I mean, that's the lack of curiosity from some of my colleagues in the media about these issues

00:40:02.700 has been quite maybe not astonishing but disappointing well one of the things in my

00:40:07.620 column i spend quite a bad time was how the terrible treatment of tamara leach 1.00

00:40:11.520 who's a an indigenous woman who went to help out with the communications and an organization of the 0.95

00:40:19.320 convoy but she never committed a crime and she has been persecuted continuously and one of the 0.91

00:40:26.440 things, and her case is still going on. It's still going on today, and the trial will resume soon.

00:40:36.500 And yet, this woman has been persecuted beyond reason, because that can only happen 0.94

00:40:47.460 if there's direction from the top. Well, and the thing I would also point out in the case of

00:40:53.280 Tamera Leach is that like the argument for keeping her behind bars because she spent she I think it 1.00

00:40:58.460 was 19 days she was released and then rearrested for another 30 days so I think 49 was the total

00:41:03.640 I might be you know give or take one or two but she I mean she was unvaccinated she couldn't board 1.00

00:41:08.180 a plane she wasn't a flight risk uh she wasn't violent she wasn't at risk to reoffend because

00:41:13.280 the protest was over like there was no defensible reason to keep her incarcerated and especially

00:41:18.960 when you contrast it with all of these catch and release policies that you've alluded to

00:41:22.940 where people who are reoffending are being just sent out of jail immediately after their arrest?

00:41:29.800 Well, this is a petite woman who was charged with committing the offenses of obstructing 1.00

00:41:38.940 police officers and endangering the public. This little woman, she was marched to a jail, 1.00

00:41:46.120 thrown down into a cell and then and then eventually it put into another part of the

00:41:52.360 jail system back and forth and her trial is still going on she's still being persecuted 1.00

00:41:57.080 and the prosecutor himself has said that they want to make a special case uh to show teacher

00:42:03.880 a lesson and when that happens uh you how can that otherwise happen without some that if either

00:42:10.120 implicit or explicit interaction and that's an important point because i ideally if you are

00:42:16.120 I mean, yes, sentencing is in a roundabout way meant to be a deterrent.

00:42:20.040 But when you're on trial, you want the case to be about you and your conduct and your actions,

00:42:25.500 not you as a symbol for society that the prosecution wants to punish.

00:42:30.320 And they have done that with Tamera.

00:42:31.980 They've been very explicit about that.

00:42:33.360 They don't want to just put her on trial. 0.52

00:42:34.800 They want to put the whole convoy on trial through her. 0.85

00:42:38.160 Well, I think that's exactly right.

00:42:40.340 And, you know, you probably saw that recently.

00:42:42.560 A judge came out and actually ruled that there was no crime committed.

00:42:46.120 with a with a freedom convoy yeah well that the yeah that it wasn't an emergency the federal court

00:42:52.100 decision that you know basically the entire premise of this national emergency just did not

00:42:55.920 exist yeah no very very well said it was a great piece in c2c journal called the worrisome wave of

00:43:02.800 politicized prosecutions i don't i don't think you could hear me when i i did my initial introduction

00:43:07.120 but i i said you were a legend in oil and gas and i'm uh grateful for your work at the helm of

00:43:11.700 in Canada, which is neither a Canadian nor called in Canada anymore. So you're a representative of

00:43:16.940 the glory days of that. But Gwyn Morgan, always good to talk to you. Thanks for coming on.

00:43:20.400 Thank you, Andrew.

00:43:21.900 All right. And thanks for your support of True North as well. It's very much appreciated. That

00:43:25.820 does it for us for today. We'll be back to, well, no, we won't be back tomorrow. I'll be back on

00:43:30.280 Off the Record tomorrow, but the Andrew Lawton Show resumes on Monday. So have a wonderful weekend.

00:43:35.180 We'll see you on Monday. Thank you. God bless and good day to you all.

00:43:41.700 to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:44:11.700 We'll be right back.

00:44:41.700 We'll be right back.

00:45:11.700 You

Juno News - November 06, 2023

A carbon tax revolt is underway

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