Juno News - December 04, 2023


A former Gazan prisoner speaks out


Episode Stats

Length

18 minutes

Words per Minute

151.73721

Word Count

2,747

Sentence Count

133

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

3


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Hi, everybody. Welcome to the Rupa Subramanya show. I'm your host, Rupa Subramanya. Today,
00:00:21.080 we're going to be speaking to journalist Manar al-Sharif, who's based in Dubai.
00:00:25.920 Manar is Palestinian. She was born in Syria, raised in Damascus, ended up in Cairo after
00:00:33.980 she and her family fled the Syrian civil war and decided to pursue journalism in Gaza. As I
00:00:42.760 mentioned, Manar is Palestinian, and she had this deep desire to return to Gaza to reconnect with
00:00:50.120 her roots. So she was enrolled at the Islamic University to study journalism, but then she
00:00:57.180 quickly realized that this journalism program was mostly propaganda, and that made her decide
00:01:06.500 to step away from academia, and she chose to chart her own independent path. So she began
00:01:12.260 writing extensively for various publications around the world, trying to shed light on what
00:01:18.260 life in Gaza is like for the average Palestinian. She was also a member of a small volunteer
00:01:25.640 organization called the Gaza Youth Committee, where she and her colleagues organized video
00:01:31.520 chats under an important bridge-building initiative called Skype with your enemy. The idea really
00:01:37.680 was for Gazans and Israelis to get to know each other, which is, I think, a fantastic idea.
00:01:44.260 The initiative began getting very popular at that time and began drawing lots of attention,
00:01:51.640 and it was extremely well attended. As a result of this, she was arrested by Hamas police, which
00:01:58.380 really frowned upon this kind of bridge-building initiative, and she ended up spending time in a
00:02:04.880 women's prison under Hamas control. She was eventually released from prison and sought refuge in Dubai,
00:02:12.520 where she joins us today. She'll be speaking to us about the ongoing crisis in the Middle East,
00:02:18.100 her life in Gaza, and what life is like for the average Palestinian in the Gaza Strip, and what the future
00:02:25.600 holds for Palestinians in the Gaza Strip. Given the length of the interview this week, I've decided to
00:02:31.480 highlight three important sections from the interview that clearly illustrate the everyday situation for the
00:02:38.020 average Gazan, not at the hands of the Israelis, but at the hands of Hamas, which governs Gaza.
00:02:45.260 First, when she was in Gaza, when she was living in Gaza, Manar met with a family. While speaking to a woman
00:02:53.000 in the family, the woman points to a photo on the wall behind her. She says that young man in the photo is her son,
00:03:01.220 and he's no more. He was killed, not by the Israelis, but by Hamas. These and other stories Manar heard of the
00:03:09.580 violence Hamas had enacted on its own people are harrowing reminders about the internal dangers, the
00:03:16.180 everyday dangers that the average Gazan faces every day, not at the hands of the Israelis, but at the hands of Hamas.
00:03:23.180 There was something that I, an interview that I watched a few days ago, where you related the story
00:03:31.700 about speaking to a woman who was pointing to a photo of her son on the wall. And, you know, can you tell us
00:03:40.280 a bit about that? Can you tell us what happened there?
00:03:44.820 Well, also, it's also go back to the families we were visiting through Ramadan, or maybe through different
00:03:52.300 times. And I would just be interested to know more. And then I would look at the photo and then I would
00:03:59.980 just ask, you know, like who they missed. And then they just would be like, oh, this is something
00:04:07.100 happened in 2007 when Hamas controlled Gaza, and they started to take over by force by killing
00:04:15.180 members of the VA and also arresting. And, you know, so it was a very big event for the Gazans, where
00:04:24.300 people outside do not know anything about it. You know, so, and even now, I believe, like, it's hard to
00:04:35.420 convince them that it's happened. It needs time for the Gazans also to speak about it. They are traumatized,
00:04:42.380 you know, they are very tired, even.
00:04:45.820 So, I mean, there was this, the example that you, you gave was this woman who points to the
00:04:53.260 photo of her son on the wall, and she said, it was not the Israelis who killed my son, it was Hamas.
00:04:59.580 How common are such stories in Gaza?
00:05:05.660 Well, lots of stories, I mean, it's like very common thing, even without being involved with
00:05:14.940 the VA, you could be walking in the street, I don't know, with a boyfriend, with a girlfriend,
00:05:20.940 and Hamas will do also similar stuff. And first of all, it will be jail, but if you will be very hard
00:05:28.700 on them and not accepting what's happening by them, you could also be killed. And that happened.
00:05:35.660 This is what I was shocked about. How could that happen? You know, you are here to take care of the
00:05:42.220 people. If you are claiming that you are a movement who can help the Palestinians to have a state,
00:05:49.340 you are killing them. This is something shocked me personally. And I wished we have something like this.
00:05:54.700 This is why I was interested to know more about them and about their activities inside Gaza,
00:06:00.140 and how they help the people. You know, what is your vision for the area? I am a Palestinian,
00:06:05.580 and I have the right to know what is your vision for the area and for the state of Palestine. But
00:06:09.980 when I saw that, it's like, it's a shock. It's just a shock. I started, like, I want to know more.
00:06:19.580 The curiosity inside me led me to know more stories. Here I started to be like, okay, no,
00:06:26.220 this is something cannot be real, cannot, like, I cannot understand very well. This is something
00:06:32.060 should not happen from the first place, but to whom you should speak about, you know?
00:06:36.940 So tell us, can you, can you tell us about one of these stories that you heard in, in Gaza
00:06:44.060 from someone that you were speaking to? Something, something that, that still stays with you after
00:06:52.700 all this time? Well, also, also, we were, we would just be sitting, you know, with the friends and
00:06:59.820 another friend would just come, there is a blood on their faces. And I would ask also the same question,
00:07:05.180 what's happening? And they would just be like, oh, it's okay. Like, nothing real, nothing serious.
00:07:11.900 It's just Hamas, you know? Even they deal with it as like, just imagine, you know, like, we, we,
00:07:18.060 like, we can't do anything, you know? But why? Maybe they would just tell you, oh, maybe because I wrote
00:07:22.940 something on my Facebook. This is why. They didn't like it, you know? They sent a warning. I didn't react
00:07:30.300 on it. The next day they could really come and beat me, you know? This is also very common. Even
00:07:37.260 before the war, I think, and I believe it's still going on.
00:07:42.860 Are there protests against Hamas in Gaza? Have there been protests? Yeah.
00:07:49.180 Yes. Also, everyone can check that up. I think, and I believe it's on the media right now. And
00:07:55.020 like the, like the, like the famous, the popular demonstrations they did, it's called We Need to
00:08:01.420 Leave. And they were demanding Hamas for giving them more rights in Gaza. And also that you can
00:08:11.260 still see videos where they were beaten in a very bad way. So just painful to see them. So it's there
00:08:19.900 on the media and everyone can check that, you know? In this next clip, Manar talks about the
00:08:24.940 circumstances that led her to spending time in a Hamas prison and the experiences she had during
00:08:31.340 her time there. Well, so you spent, uh, how much time in a Hamas prison for organizing these chats?
00:08:40.220 Three months. Three months. What was that experience like?
00:08:46.140 Well, yeah, as I'm saying, I want three years to know more. Like, I would just be happy to go to
00:08:52.620 the investigations every day. And I was upset by the way they think. Like, I thought they would be
00:09:00.940 just more stronger, maybe, or more accurate or more smarter, you know, as the people outside of
00:09:08.540 the Israeli Israeli thing, you know, I thought this is something going to be huge. But when I went there,
00:09:16.540 they were just asking the silly questions, who do you work for? Who's supporting you? Who is paying for
00:09:22.940 you? Is Israel made you work for that? You know, like questions, even like, I don't know, you know,
00:09:29.260 like, I can't even answer. Like, I really can't answer you, you know? But, and this is what I said.
00:09:36.700 I didn't even deny what, what we did. And the answers will be, well, we don't need your help here.
00:09:43.420 You know, but you did something like this, you maybe, I don't know. So they, like, there was no
00:09:51.820 way to communicate in a logical way where I can, you know, answer these questions. So I would just
00:10:00.780 give maybe details or things that I already did. With, you know, more details, and that's it. So it was
00:10:08.940 like, crazy to be having a conversation with them. Were you tortured, Manar, in prison?
00:10:21.260 Well, no, I, for them, they were like, very impressed about how strong I am, and how I am not crying,
00:10:31.580 maybe, or how, I don't know. And they were like, okay, we need you more here. So the only thing, they
00:10:37.580 would just be holding me for a long time in the cell until they take me from a place to another, and
00:10:43.020 then back to my cell. And like, you know, it's, it's maybe hard. It's, it's, it is hard. I don't
00:10:50.540 know. But I told you, I was just curious to know more and to listen more, you know? And like,
00:10:55.820 like, just, I was like, trying to understand how this place works, you know?
00:11:05.020 Um, were you, um, did you interact with other prisoners in, in, in, in prison?
00:11:13.020 Well, well, yeah, well, yeah, also, that was good. Uh, I was afraid in the beginning. Uh, but then I
00:11:19.900 wanted to, um, to understand them and to see their stories. Also, the stories, not all of them,
00:11:29.660 also, like, a few number of them also was jailed for things that you can't jail a person for that
00:11:37.420 reason, which is, as I told you, maybe having a boyfriend or, or something, and then they would
00:11:43.660 just be, you know, jailed for that. And then they would, Hamas would just call their families and
00:11:49.420 tell them, oh, but your daughter was like sleeping with someone that, you know, like,
00:11:54.700 why are you doing this? She, she wasn't, maybe she wasn't in a car. Maybe she was walking with them
00:12:00.460 or, you know, so they would just be, so Hamas is doing that to not let her family just stand with
00:12:07.980 her in difficult times, I guess. And they would just keep numbers of them inside. Like, they love it,
00:12:14.860 you know? Like, I feel that this is something they love to do, but it's not logical. Like, it's not
00:12:21.420 fair even to have it, you know? And, uh, I think also it's hard to, to have a lawyer.
00:12:30.780 What I discovered in the prison that it's not, in the, in the beginning, maybe also it's not allowed
00:12:38.540 to have a call with your families, to have a call with the lawyers, to know more about your rights,
00:12:44.140 to know more about what you did. It's like, it's a, it's a very big chaos, you know? Like,
00:12:51.820 you would just be jailed and that's it without knowing where you are going next. It's killing.
00:12:58.060 This is what kept me the most. That's why I cannot know more, you know? And I tried many times to
00:13:07.180 write to them, even from the prison, and I tried to demand more. I need to know more, you know?
00:13:13.820 I have no problem. Maybe I did something wrong for your country, for your place. I have no problem
00:13:20.380 to pay the price for it, but could you tell me how much to the price?
00:13:23.340 In this final clip, Manar talks about the attitude of those in the West when it comes to viewing this
00:13:30.060 conflict and her thoughts on why she thinks so many, um, are celebrating Hamas as freedom fighters
00:13:37.420 rather than terrorists. What do you, what do you make of, um, uh, people here in the West who celebrate
00:13:44.860 Hamas? Given your own experience with Hamas, um, uh, you know, in, uh, in Gaza? What do you make of
00:13:53.900 people who celebrate Hamas as freedom fighters and, um, you know, as, as, as, you know, as martyrs?
00:14:03.900 What do you make of that?
00:14:04.860 Well, again, it's very, uh, painful thing to just me as a journalist to see people who would just be,
00:14:16.380 um, having that stereotype in their minds and they are fighting for it, but may, but they might just
00:14:23.260 commit a crime for just having that stereotype in their heads, you know? I mean, I, and I believe that
00:14:29.900 people in Gaza, like, would not be happy with what you are doing. And, um, yeah, it just, it's just crazy
00:14:39.980 to have something in mind and just go for it or with it because you only saw that on media, but the
00:14:45.420 reality is something different. So I feel that you need to know more. If you want to know more, it's so easy
00:14:52.220 to know more by talking with the people directly. And this is what I ask the people all the time to do.
00:14:57.580 I, I live in the Middle East. I have never been outside the Middle East and I cannot comment on
00:15:05.420 the Russian Ukraine war. I cannot, I just cannot, you know, I have no idea. I have never been there.
00:15:11.100 So I cannot, you cannot do that. You know, you need to be a journalist by yourself and to go to ask
00:15:16.860 the people. If you have a problem with reaching the people, just ask around, maybe ask, maybe to ask you,
00:15:25.100 you know, it's, it's not so hard to do that and just be open and listen to other realities might be
00:15:32.060 around you and you are just not caring even to listen to it, you know? Yeah. Um, what do you think,
00:15:42.380 um, you know, if, if you say that people in Gaza don't really support Hamas, you say 75% of the people,
00:15:50.220 according to you do not support Hamas. Why hasn't there, why haven't the people tried to get rid of
00:15:56.860 Hamas? When they tried, as I told you, um, and I don't know if I should say that on India, but I
00:16:06.700 know many informations and I know many events that happened in Gaza by young people who were trying to
00:16:14.220 bomb their security places. And that was tough. Like I know they did their best, but also another
00:16:24.700 thing I would like to mention that when I was shared, I discovered that we have no human rights,
00:16:32.060 whether in the Middle East, whether in the West, whether like globally, we don't have a good human
00:16:37.500 rights organization, what is existing Gaza, maybe the UN, they're in the cross. Yes. But they still,
00:16:43.660 like none of them could help. As long as you could, you couldn't like, or you cannot help me to speak up
00:16:52.620 for the freedom of speech. Like, don't ask people to speak up. Don't ask me to speak up, you know,
00:17:01.260 will you, will you pay the price for me? Will you at least protect me if I did that? No. So please stop.
00:17:07.500 And I hear that many times by the people outside. Why the Gazans are not speaking? How would you like
00:17:15.420 them to speak up? And you, and maybe if you went to the jail, maybe one day, maybe you will commit
00:17:24.060 suicide the next day. Like you can't ask people to do something like this and you have never experienced
00:17:31.020 what is Gaza, you know, like you have never been there. Manar, thank you so much for joining us
00:17:36.940 from Dubai. Thank you for sharing your stories. And thank you for your courage and, and for continuing
00:17:45.820 to speak out against Hamas and for advocating on behalf of the Palestinians. And, and, you know,
00:17:56.220 I wish you all the best and I, and hopefully we'll have you back on here again very soon.
00:18:02.220 Thank you.
00:18:04.220 Thank you.