Juno News - Alberta and Ottawa unveil pipeline framework

00:00:00.000 Well, the Kearney government has agreed to drop some environmental rules, which have been up to

00:00:10.460 now major stumbling blocks in the rollout of a pipeline from Alberta to the B.C. coast.

00:00:16.560 Alberta and the federal government have signed a new energy deal that is supposed to pave the way

00:00:21.860 for a pipeline from Alberta to the West Coast. Prime Minister Kearney and Premier Daniel Smith

00:00:28.040 met for an announcement in Calgary today. This is a really great day for Albertans. We have been

00:00:33.900 working for some time on addressing the nine bad laws, as I like to call them, that have been

00:00:38.860 impacting our investment climate here. And I'm pleased that we've reached an agreement to substantially

00:00:43.540 work on removing and revising those laws. I think what it's going to do, especially with the removal

00:00:49.140 of the emissions cap on Alberta, as well as the removal of the net zero power regs, I think it's

00:00:53.720 going to unleash an incredible amount of investment and allow us to work together on important

00:00:58.380 nation building projects. So it's the first step, I think, of what will be a few more steps

00:01:02.900 we have to take together. But I'm very pleased that the prime minister has heard our concerns

00:01:06.920 and responded to them. As he heard, Smith said the move will unleash all sorts of much needed

00:01:11.900 investment in Alberta's oil and gas sector. Prime Minister Kearney says a pipeline delivering

00:01:17.600 energy to Asia is the priority here. At the core of the agreement, of course, is a priority to have

00:01:24.780 a pipeline to Asia. That's going to make Canada stronger, more independent, more resilient, more

00:01:33.620 sustainable. Now, the feds may be easing some of the environmental hurdles, but there is still the

00:01:39.140 matter of British Columbia's continued opposition to the project. Kearney says there will have to be

00:01:44.580 cooperation from both BC and indigenous groups. At the heart of this is cooperation and partnership

00:01:51.720 with indigenous peoples in Alberta, in British Columbia, as they're affected. Unprecedented

00:01:59.320 opportunities for indigenous ownership, partnership, economic benefits, as well as substantial economic

00:02:06.840 benefits for the people of British Columbia. So this is Canada working. Now, the agreement calls for

00:02:14.360 indigenous co-ownership of the pipeline, suspension of clean energy regulations, and Alberta's promise

00:02:21.440 to increase, increase its industrial carbon tax. Now, there have been some reports of opposition to the

00:02:28.880 move from inside the Liberal caucus. So far, none of the climate hardliners have quit. We're going to

00:02:35.820 have more reaction and analysis to this deal tomorrow, but with his immediate reaction, former Liberal MP,

00:02:42.780 Dan McTague, who's also an energy analyst. Welcome to the show, Dan.

00:02:46.980 Good to be here. And what a day after seven years of trying to tell the Donald Trump

00:02:51.860 on the Liberal side, the left, that you've got to get these things done and you've got to get projects

00:02:56.700 built, not just for the economic well-being, but for the stability of the nation, the ability for the

00:03:02.700 nation to stay together. Got to do something. We'll see what the Liberals are real and whether or not

00:03:08.380 they're honest about what they're prepared to do. But there's a lot of caveats to this, which I think

00:03:13.900 has to be addressed. It won't be addressed necessarily by Premier Smith, who I think is

00:03:19.540 enjoying the fact that there is finally something and maybe Liberals finally walking back 10 years of

00:03:25.940 absolute lunacy. But the conditions that continue to apply will have implications for consumers. So

00:03:33.020 that's my first reaction to what I'm seeing right now. And by the way, you're in the midst of a snowstorm

00:03:38.540 out there in the Peterborough area. So if we have any slight disruptions in our communications,

00:03:45.960 yeah, we'll understand because we appreciate you coming on. Okay. So did the Carney government go

00:03:52.680 further than you thought they would? No, I think they've been able to say, hey,

00:03:58.180 we can sell oil. No one in the world has to go through underground carbon storage or remove carbon

00:04:07.020 and put it in the ground. No other country that is an oil producer, not Saudi Arabia, not Venezuela,

00:04:12.120 not Russia, not Iran, not Iraq, not even the North Sea oil has to go through this kind of

00:04:18.340 gyration in order to make it palatable to the Liberals. So I think it's conceding that they'd like 0.99

00:04:25.980 to do these things, but you still have to live up to their conditions, which is net zero. And I think

00:04:29.740 that's therein lies the problem. And it's not just, you know, a simple ideal that I'm concerned

00:04:35.280 about. It's that it's going to cost consumers a lot of money, who in goodness name is going to now pay

00:04:40.840 five, 10, 15, 20 cents a litre more over and above the industrial carbon tax over and above the clean

00:04:47.540 fuel standard to pay for the cost of sequestration. This doesn't happen cheap. It doesn't happen for free.

00:04:52.740 And since no other country in the world does it, you can't pass that on to customers in Asia 0.96

00:04:57.460 because they'll simply go somewhere else to get their oil much cheaper. No, Canadian consumers

00:05:02.040 may very well be holding the bag on this. And I think that's what I call, and you'll appreciate

00:05:06.900 this, Mark, the CRTC rule. Consumers rarely take it into consideration.

00:05:13.180 Yeah, I remember that from being there for five years. So thanks for reminding me. But they're

00:05:19.980 dropping the emissions cap. I guess that was one bit of good news. I know that was a major bone of

00:05:27.340 contention for the Alberta government, but the tax, the carbon tax, the industrial carbon tax is going

00:05:34.700 to go up. So it's like, does one offset the other? You know, what do you make of that?

00:05:42.840 Well, I think it makes Canadian oil much more uncompetitive. You know, you can have all the

00:05:47.160 pipelines you want, but if the price goes up above the international median, or you have to take a

00:05:52.660 haircut when it comes to what you're charging for your oil, what's the point of doing it? And so these

00:05:59.040 questions have to be asked. No media asked the question, and I think in the commentary leading

00:06:04.700 up to this, both to Mark Carney and to Danielle Smith, but I'll certainly be holding the questions.

00:06:10.240 Look, I think it's an important decision. It's potentially a step in the right direction,

00:06:14.440 but it fails significantly when it does not include, you know, things like removing carbon

00:06:22.120 taxes, the industrial carbon tax, the clean fuel standard, and now an additional tax.

00:06:29.560 Carbon sequestration, CCSU, carbon capture and underground storage means that you have to take,

00:06:36.940 buy the CO2 from what you're producing, send it by pipeline to a particular place in Alberta,

00:06:41.960 usually the Western sedimentary area that I think is well known for this. Force it in the ground,

00:06:48.500 make sure it never comes up, because if you ever did, you'd kill tens of thousands of people.

00:06:52.500 Concentration at that level would eliminate human life. But all that aside, it costs a lot of money.

00:06:58.900 I have, as I said, heard anywhere from 10 to $60 billion to do this. How is that going to be paid for?

00:07:06.020 Because it's not going to come from oil companies basically out of the goodness of their heart saying,

00:07:10.780 hey, we're on board the Pathways groups saying we're going to simply absorb the cost as part of the cost of extracting oil and getting it to market.

00:07:19.160 No, they're going to pass it on to consumers. And I think that's a real Achilles heel here that I think is going to get very little mention up until it starts to hit people at the pumps.

00:07:29.940 The same way the consumer carbon tax for seven years was accepted by everybody until it cost them 20 cents a liter and they couldn't afford it.

00:07:37.840 And that's where we're heading here.

00:07:40.240 Now, this agreement calls for indigenous co-ownership of the project.

00:07:45.720 And of course, B.C. has to go along with it.

00:07:48.600 And up to this point, we've had nothing but opposition and intransigence from Premier Eby of B.C.

00:07:57.040 I don't see him changing his mind. I don't see him thinking, oh, great, you know, I'm going to completely flip and approve this thing and go along with it.

00:08:07.240 And so if B.C. in fact does have a veto, could this thing be stillborn, you know, right out of the gate?

00:08:14.500 Yeah, I think B.C. is going to find itself as it did with the Trans Mountain Pipeline expansion, not having a constitutional ground in which to stand, to fight, to oppose and to use every tool in the toolbox.

00:08:26.900 I think David Eby was the Solicitor General at the time when the Horgan NDP government tried the same stunt and found out the hard way that we have a constitution in this country and he's just going to have to put up or shut up, frankly.

00:08:38.820 I say that because it cost Canadians 50 billion bucks thanks to obstruction by the government and their friends, their woke friends and their climate friends to try to stop a pipeline that was very much in need.

00:08:52.800 Kinder Morgan basically said the federal government, you approve this, you have your stamp, the signature of the crown on this, we're going to sue you if you don't let us proceed with it.

00:09:01.680 They said, yeah, we we agree with that. And it wound up costing you and I 50 billion dollars.

00:09:07.040 So long before Eby has his little hissy fit, maybe Eby and the NDP in British Columbia would like to offer the rest of Canada 50 billion less than 10 percent.

00:09:16.940 So 45 billion bucks net should go to the Canadian government as a result of the vandalism, the political vandalism and miscreancy that they were involved with.

00:09:25.380 And there's no timetable that I have seen. Now, I have yet to pour over every single thing in this agreement, but I mean, to Pierre Polyev's point, there's been no discussion around when shovels are going to go in the ground and you start actually building this thing.

00:09:41.680 So, you know, when you don't have that, there's always the sense that it may happen and it may not happen. Last word to you. Are we actually going to get a pipeline as a result of this deal?

00:09:51.580 We have to. And if we don't, then the Liberals will fail. It'd be another Conservative government that will come forward and bring it forward.

00:09:59.080 But anybody who thinks you're going to stand in the way of this is standing in the way of what is in the absolute interest of the country and those who are against it should simply step aside.

00:10:08.540 You've had 10 years to vandalize the economy. We've had enough. We need to pay our bills. We need to get the country back on track. This is the only way to do it for now.

00:10:16.000 Dan McTague, Canadians for Affordable Energy. Thank you so much for coming on the show, Dan. We really appreciate it.

00:10:22.160 I'm now joined by Alex Brown, host of Not Sorry and director of the National Citizens Coalition. Welcome, Alex.

00:10:31.020 Hi, Mark. Anything going on today?

00:10:33.760 Oh, a few things like this alleged pipeline deal. You've seen probably the bare bones of it, as I have. What are your initial thoughts of this thing?

00:10:44.200 My initial thoughts are, is I'm not the negative type, but I am a realist. And I hope our viewers understand that they are driving this along, that they are altering the social license here.

00:10:56.620 They are prying the Overton window open towards maybe our country will get its you-know-what together. But a win today for Danielle Smith could still be a loss tomorrow.

00:11:07.480 We are seeing a lot of uncertainty in the language in this memorandum of understanding. We are obviously seeing that, you know, BC Premier David Eby and indigenous groups appear to be holding a kind of veto that they don't actually have to hold.

00:11:21.340 Because as an interprovincial transportation matter, this is federal jurisdiction. And so I want to be optimistic about it. I'm looking at this memorandum. We're all studying it in real time.

00:11:32.380 There are signs of life here, but there is also, you can see the exit ramp. You can see these rhetorical hedging of bets sprinkled throughout it when it comes to language, when it comes to the use of net zero. None of our allies are even using the term net zero anymore.

00:11:50.140 And so I, I, I want to see this through. I want to see a bitumen pipeline to the Pacific coast. I want to see pathways. I want, I want us to work with our indigenous groups. I want us to do all these things, but I'm, I'm also seeing the chance for this to be just another disappointment for Albertans, the West and for Canada's energy recovery.

00:12:09.860 I mean, the deal calls for indigenous co-ownership of the pipeline. That's usually not a major hurdle. It can be negotiated. Suspension of the clean energy regulations, which was good. Yeah. The cap, of course, that was a major bone of contention for the government, but Alberta has to promise to increase its industrial carbon price. I mean, it's already too high for some people.

00:12:32.900 So that's kind of a, going to be a hard thing to sell, I think, to some of Danielle's supporters out there at the UCP. What do you think politically she's going to have to say to her members and her supporters and her opponents when she talks to them on the weekend?

00:12:53.080 I think she's in a really difficult spot where she has so much to be proud of as, as Canada's great conservative premier. Scott Moe, of course, deserves some credit there, but these are still like the MOU itself opens with the equivalent of a net zero land acknowledgement that none of this can happen without it. Our allies, even competitors, they're not doing the same thing. I'm hearing sources, federal officials from sources that federal officials danced hard around that BC veto question in the technical briefing.

00:13:22.080 If you want to invest in this, if you want to get fully on board with this, there are so many concerns that, you know, what happens if and when the BC government or indigenous bands outright refuse? If Ottawa is supposed to maintain the final decision making authority here, but if we get these left coast objections, what are the political consequences going to be? Like, is Alberta being set up once again to do all of the work, all of the work?

00:13:49.080 And then if it doesn't work out, if they are obstructed, Ottawa can just hold its hand up and say, we tried. You can't get mad at us. We tried. And so she's going to be in a sort of a rock and a hard place. I think selling that over the days to come. It is a sign of optimism. There's some encouragement there, but I don't envy that task of having to communicate that to Alberta and energy stakeholders.

00:14:13.080 Yeah. I mean, Smith said that this move, this announcement will unleash all sorts of much needed investment in Alberta's oil and gas sector.

00:14:22.080 But, you know, do you really want to wade in there with billions of dollars when you've got an intransigent premier of British Columbia who has consistently said, I don't favor this project is bad.

00:14:33.080 You know, it'll undermine projects that we already have under agreement and negotiation as far as the indigenous groups, because apparently these indigenous groups that he's been dealing with oppose the tanker band.

00:14:46.080 I've got some I've got some quotes for you here because I, you know, I knew that this would be a problem as well.

00:14:52.080 It is Maryland Slet, the president of the Coastal First Nations Great Bear Initiative. We will never allow oil tankers on our coast and that in this pipeline project will never happen.

00:15:03.080 A statement from the Highland Nation in Kitimat. We met with Premier Daniel Smith over a decade ago.

00:15:09.080 The community of Kitimat voted to oppose the Northern Gateway project.

00:15:12.080 You know, this position was articulated clearly to Premier Smith during the meeting that we feel the same way regarding an oil pipeline and export facility in our territory.

00:15:21.080 So so so those same roadblocks are still there. And David Eby, Canada's worst premier, a degrowth radical. 0.99

00:15:28.080 He's not changing anytime soon. And I can say from being on the ground in B.C. here on all kinds of things for you is the concern with him is that because the B.C. conservatives are in such a tricky position at the moment who are shooting themselves in the foot.

00:15:43.080 Let's be honest that he is going to be buoyed that actually he has his own version of a social license to oppose this.

00:15:51.080 He's doing well in the polls, not because he is doing well. B.C. is in freefall.

00:15:55.080 He's doing well in the polls because John Rustad is making a mess of things.

00:15:59.080 And so come spring, if the B.C. NDP want to campaign on this and the conservatives haven't gotten it together provincially out here, this could be a real fight.

00:16:08.080 And this this trump card that he shouldn't have could just lead to more of the same.

00:16:13.080 And Premier Smith could be left holding the bag. And would you really want to be one of the first private investors to be the canary in the coal mine there, knowing that all of this is possible?

00:16:27.080 Yeah, exactly. That was my point of my question.

00:16:30.080 Is who would want to wait in there with investment capital in a very uncertain situation when you've got the B.C.

00:16:38.080 or the Premier of B.C. saying, no, no, no.

00:16:40.080 Then you've also got to deal with co-ownership with various groups, indigenous groups.

00:16:46.080 You know, then you've got to you're going to see an elevated carbon tax.

00:16:51.080 The industrial carbon tax is going to go up.

00:16:53.080 So, yeah, the cap is gone, but there may not be enough here for companies to look and say, yeah, this is where I want to be.

00:17:01.080 This is where I want to invest my money.

00:17:03.080 I have to be a little bit skeptical here, but maybe I'm wrong.

00:17:08.080 You know, that would be nice.

00:17:10.080 I was talking to Lauren Gunter on my show yesterday where we just kept coming back to like prove us wrong, please.

00:17:17.080 Maybe we're wrong, please.

00:17:18.080 Like I don't in communications to supporters of the National Citizens Coalition last night sharing our episode.

00:17:25.080 And I spoke to Dan McTeague as well, who I know you're speaking with today.

00:17:28.080 It's just please, Prime Minister, prove us wrong.

00:17:31.080 It's like we're all trying to operate in good faith.

00:17:33.080 Alberta is trying to operate in good faith.

00:17:35.080 Our energy producers are trying to operate in good faith.

00:17:38.080 The last 10 years were not in good faith.

00:17:40.080 It was obstruction.

00:17:41.080 It was redistribution.

00:17:42.080 It was sabotage.

00:17:44.080 And it's great to see this memorandum.

00:17:47.080 But when you dive into it and you see that it uses words like collaborate, consult, engage, catalyze, decatalyze, like all that instead of more times than it says pipeline.

00:18:01.080 I worry.

00:18:02.080 I see comms varnish.

00:18:04.080 I see a lot of chat GPT, too, but I see comms varnish and I see more of the same and I see them setting up excuses for this to fail.

00:18:13.080 And I want to be wrong.

00:18:14.080 I want us to be optimistic.

00:18:16.080 Our viewers should be proud of how they're pushing this because this is not driven by liberal benevolence.

00:18:20.080 This is driven by the polls.

00:18:22.080 This is driven by life becoming too expensive for Canadians.

00:18:25.080 This is driven by the fact that the carbon tax is no longer a pocketbook issue for Canadians.

00:18:30.080 It's not.

00:18:31.080 It's affordability.

00:18:32.080 It's housing.

00:18:33.080 It's immigration.

00:18:34.080 It's health care.

00:18:35.080 It's getting a trade deal done.

00:18:36.080 It has fallen all the way down the list and it should because our environment is important.

00:18:40.080 But come on, we leave our houses.

00:18:42.080 Life's tough.

00:18:43.080 We can barely keep the lights on.

00:18:44.080 And so I would love to be wrong about this.

00:18:46.080 We're all rooting for it.

00:18:47.080 But the proof is going to be in the next few months.

00:18:50.080 And the proof is going to be if Carney doesn't proudly step up in front of a podium.

00:18:55.080 And I don't think he's even taking questions today and saying we're getting this done.

00:18:59.080 We're going to market.

00:19:00.080 But but they're hedging.

00:19:03.080 Yeah, absolutely.

00:19:04.080 In the meantime, you've got to get these liberal MPs in British Columbia supposedly nervous about a deal.

00:19:11.080 But they're furious.

00:19:12.080 Are they?

00:19:13.080 Yeah, they're furious.

00:19:14.080 And the caucus is completely divided.

00:19:17.080 These are these are the same old, same old crowd.

00:19:20.080 They are used to the Trudeau approach to this.

00:19:24.080 They're used to the Gebo, Jonathan Wilkinson approach.

00:19:27.080 The fact that Jonathan Wilkinson even had his cabinet position with being in charge of resources,

00:19:32.080 as in it's an anti-resource, degrowth, net zero fanatic.

00:19:37.080 They're not suddenly turning over a new leaf.

00:19:39.080 We know it is majority the same team.

00:19:41.080 And so that is a house divided.

00:19:43.080 There was a 30 minute meeting yesterday amongst liberal caucus that that stretched on for hours,

00:19:49.080 according to Jeff Blingel's, I believe, trending politics outfit.

00:19:54.080 And so it's, you know, infighting galore.

00:19:57.080 They're putting a brave face on this.

00:19:59.080 You can see all the carefully sort of chosen words in that memorandum where they're trying to have it both ways.

00:20:05.080 But anytime they try to have it both ways, nothing gets done.

00:20:09.080 The announcement becomes the policy.

00:20:11.080 And we don't need more announcements.

00:20:12.080 We need results.

00:20:14.080 Absolutely.

00:20:15.080 How do people support your organization, the National Citizens Coalition?

00:20:19.080 Hey, they go to nationalcitizens.ca.

00:20:21.080 We got a terrific campaign right now called Fix Canada, where we are reaching millions of people per month.

00:20:27.080 And we are advocating for all the common sense stuff that we talk about here.

00:20:31.080 And it's you kind of become your own broadcaster.

00:20:34.080 You go right to the people.

00:20:36.080 You move the polls.

00:20:37.080 Very proud of that grassroots effort and the amount of folks we're able to stick up for and reach.

00:20:42.080 We've got a terrific new spot this week and another coming out next week as well.

00:20:46.080 President Peter Coleman has done such a great job there in leadership over the years as well.

00:20:50.080 And so nationalcitizens.ca.

00:20:52.080 The host of the Not Sorry podcast, Alex Brown, thank you so much for coming on the show, Alex.

00:20:58.080 Mark, appreciate it.

00:20:59.080 And that is it for this edition of Straight Up.

00:21:02.080 Appreciate you tuning in, my friends.

00:21:03.080 Let's do it again soon, shall we?

00:21:05.080 Bye-bye for now.

Juno News - November 27, 2025

Alberta and Ottawa unveil pipeline framework

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