Juno News - Alberta Independence vs. Separation

00:00:00.000 Western independence isn't just about separation and you know there are a lot of people that are

00:00:09.500 saying we're done with confederation we want out but a lot of people say listen I love Canada I

00:00:14.620 love this country I don't love Ottawa and that's a very important distinction people that say they

00:00:20.140 like the country but not the government separating the government from its people and from other

00:00:25.160 aspects of the national existence and a lot of those people are very open to finding a new way

00:00:30.640 to make confederation work but you need a fierce ally in Ottawa or the very least someone who's

00:00:36.380 receptive to what you need and you need a strong spokesperson in Alberta which there is some

00:00:42.140 contingent of the conservative base in Alberta that doesn't think Jason Kenney is doing that

00:00:47.260 but I wanted to talk about this from a few different perspectives one of them was my conversation with

00:00:52.100 Danny Hozak who is the chairman of the Economic Education Association of Alberta which puts on

00:00:57.620 the Freedom Talk and he's invited me out a number of times but he also has a very unique perspective

00:01:02.620 on this and what he said time and time again is that it's not about separation it's about

00:01:08.280 understanding that you have to work towards a process that is better for Alberta and an outcome

00:01:14.300 that is better for Alberta and if everyone along the way decides to abandon that he says separation is

00:01:19.520 the last resort but here's my conversation with Danny Hozak outlining a number of the themes

00:01:24.080 of the Freedom Talk but also in general the themes of independence keeping in mind that Jason Kenney has

00:01:30.380 promised a referendum on equalization. You've done nine of these Freedom Talks now this is my third I've

00:01:37.540 had the great privilege of coming for the last three years in a row now this one's a little bit

00:01:42.200 different you've had to do a combination of virtual and a small number in person but in the time that

00:01:47.520 you've been doing this the dialogue has changed about independence would you say things are getting

00:01:52.640 better or worse? Well it's getting better for the independent side because things are getting worse

00:01:58.720 in our province and our country. What is it that you feel needs to be the goal now because I know there

00:02:05.920 has been a lot of talk at both this conference and also last year in the summer when you were talking

00:02:11.160 about the referendum is that really the best hope right now or is it just one of many tools?

00:02:18.360 I think it's just one of many tools and I mean I think this is a there's a combination of things

00:02:24.020 that need to be done but the first thing that Albertans have to do is they need to set their mind

00:02:27.860 to taking charge of their own destiny and there's a whole list of things you know in our last conference

00:02:32.720 we called it the firewall plus you know I mean we need to we need to do those things we need to have

00:02:37.120 our own police force we need to have our own pension we need to collect our own taxes you know

00:02:40.340 and so we need to do these things we need to sort of prepare ourselves for adulthood if you want to

00:02:45.660 call that in our country where we take charge of all these things quite frankly and I think Paul

00:02:50.540 Heman makes a good case he said like we're not ready for flat-out independence yet we have a lot of

00:02:55.140 homework to do before we're ready so I think that's our goal is to sort of facilitate that discussion

00:03:00.380 help prepare Alberta for the future help them you know be ready to take charge of their own destiny.

00:03:05.360 One of the interesting things about the discussion you've facilitated about the referendum is that

00:03:10.400 it's not just about independence it's not just about do we leave or do we stay or do we change

00:03:15.460 equalization you've actually tried and John Robson who spoke first thing I think on the conference

00:03:20.600 Friday morning had advocated for really expanding the referendum to become in many cases I don't mean

00:03:26.620 this in a negative way but a laundry list of questions that even go down to specific policies what was

00:03:32.700 the thrust behind that? Well he we're like the referendum you're talking about expanding is the

00:03:38.540 referendum that Jason Kenney has promised for this fall on equalization and our thrust was well

00:03:43.740 if we're going to take the time and spend the money to have a referendum on equalization

00:03:47.220 quite frankly most of us you know we think Jason campaigned on doing something about equalization

00:03:52.240 but if he thinks we need to have a referendum to garner more public support for it that's fine by us

00:03:57.180 but there's like time is marching on here we had the fair deal panel they recommended we have our

00:04:02.320 own police force the government's response to that was to study having our own police force like I mean

00:04:06.400 we want to have a referendum and say look we the people think we should have our own police force

00:04:11.240 not should you study it we should do it just figure out how to do it just the way we figured out to

00:04:15.040 get you know oil out of sand figure out how to do it figure out how to collect our own money

00:04:19.140 figure out how to have our own pension plan so so we want to expand the list and we're talking about

00:04:24.160 that right now downstairs we're talking about what five things should we ask the Alberta government

00:04:28.960 to put on the put on the ballot and right at the moment the police force is at the top of it

00:04:33.300 and I think every time Justin Trudeau talks about taking our guns you know support for our own police

00:04:38.880 force so that we have you know can we're the one we can discipline ourselves so to speak so anyway

00:04:43.600 we're hoping to come up with four or five questions that we will suggest to the government say look

00:04:48.520 why don't you include them on the on the referendum this fall and I think that there's something to that

00:04:53.880 because the equalization is probably one of the most notable examples of how the east can take

00:05:00.020 from the west but it doesn't really encapsulate the entirety of the problem which is a lack of

00:05:06.140 independence in confederation and I wanted to ask you about that because I know that the prevailing

00:05:11.140 chorus has historically been you know not necessarily a separation but separation if necessary

00:05:16.760 absolutely independence but if necessary what are the things that you would want to see happen

00:05:22.020 between now and that point that would make it so that that anger that fuels the separation dialogue

00:05:28.300 isn't as potent you mentioned police force what else what else is being put forward well there's the

00:05:33.780 police force collecting all the taxes in the province the having our own pension plan and I mean

00:05:39.380 there's there's there's there's a lot like we we we we subsidize the Canada pension just about as bad

00:05:45.440 as we subsidize equalization so we need to do that so there's there's there's the police there's the

00:05:50.420 pension there's the collecting our own tax there's having our own unemployment program and you know

00:05:55.440 more and more you know being in charge of our own uh uh immigration saying look I mean when we've got

00:06:00.920 a hundred and some thousand unemployed unemployed you know workers maybe more maybe 200,000 we don't

00:06:06.400 really need any more equal we don't need any more immigration until we get that sorted out so 0.99

00:06:10.760 there's a list of those things again it goes back to the firewall plus yes and a lot of what you're

00:06:15.920 describing there's precedent for in Canada people tend to over complicate things by saying well

00:06:20.580 you're going to need this constitutional amendment and this and that but a lot of what you're describing

00:06:24.760 exists squarely within provincial jurisdiction there just hasn't been a province that's availed

00:06:29.920 themselves of it and why do you think historically you've been involved in Alberta politics for a long

00:06:34.420 time even prior to the Redford years why did conservative leaders in Alberta not do this you know quite

00:06:42.120 frankly I think it was because like we were so wealthy the money was rolling in so easily it was

00:06:48.240 just they were quite frankly it was a failure of leadership I mean to me like if they had been the

00:06:52.800 if they'd have been the board of directors of a public company they'd be getting sued for malfeasance

00:06:57.140 right now the way they have like uh mishandled negotiating for us I don't blame Quebec for what

00:07:03.100 they've got I blame the people that we hired to represent us and I mean we've been poorly I mean

00:07:07.520 some of these are my dear friends but I mean at the end of the day they haven't served us well

00:07:11.940 with uh with with with the way they've let us down in some of these negotiations and so you know I think

00:07:18.420 it just boiled down to you know when when life is easy I mean the money was rolling in so easy it didn't

00:07:24.460 really matter and I mean Paul Hyman practically begged the finance minister not to sign the re-sign

00:07:29.700 the equalization thing in 2004 and uh and she wouldn't do it I mean had we done it then you look back

00:07:36.400 you say if only you know I mean yeah and you do mention something important there which is that

00:07:41.320 uh when things are really great the energy sector's booming the economy's booming Alberta was fairly

00:07:47.360 charitable now some of that was structurally not necessarily by choice but but Alberta was fairly

00:07:51.580 charitable and then when the tide turned and when Alberta was going through its own hardship

00:07:55.940 it was still subsidizing the rest of Canada but Albertans were suffering and you're right that there

00:08:01.320 was a a bit of a shift there where Alberta was all of a sudden saying okay well we've been doing so

00:08:06.220 much for the rest of Canada for so long where's the support for us now and instead what do we have

00:08:10.680 other provinces that are resisting pipelines federal leaders from the Laurentian elite that are trying

00:08:16.260 to say we don't need the energy sector we need to phase out the oil sands and and you know Alberta

00:08:21.340 was there for Canada but Canada wasn't there when the chips were down for Alberta yeah like not only

00:08:26.360 were they not there for us like they were actively working to make our life more difficult you know I mean

00:08:31.040 and so like it's uh and after a while you just say well this is crazy you know what I mean and uh so

00:08:35.940 and I mean more and more people are starting to say that now and so you know it'll be interesting to

00:08:40.680 see what what happens as we go forward one of the things that I have to commend you on even in the span

00:08:46.200 of the last three freedom talks I've been at the level of frustration is still there but it seems to

00:08:52.780 get a bit more focused and a bit more channeled every time and and now even what you've been talking

00:08:57.160 about about synthesizing all of these referendum questions that you want on there there there's a

00:09:02.040 very productive approach to that but at the same time you still need people in elected office to

00:09:07.660 listen you do and I mean the thing is in fairness to them the people in elected office can't go

00:09:14.460 somewhere that the people haven't decided they should go you know I mean so they have their role

00:09:19.180 to play we have our role to play you know I mean and uh we have to be respectful of the fact that

00:09:24.220 they're doing what they think is best for the province you know I mean but and again I don't

00:09:30.320 blame our leaders so much as sometimes the people who are voted for them were you know they were just

00:09:35.100 too casual in saying well it'll probably be all right and so and I think we really have we've been

00:09:39.560 leading the discussion on climate we've been leading the discussion on debt and deficit now we're leading

00:09:43.920 this discussion on on the questions that should be on the ballot we pride ourselves uh you know mostly

00:09:49.880 with the uh the uh you know the guidance and the counseling of uh john robson say look let's be the

00:09:55.520 adults in the room let's be let's try and have an intelligent respectful discussion of what the

00:10:00.400 issue is let's look at you know what the options are let's look at the pros and cons of the different

00:10:05.460 options and then let's let the people decide what we should do just like we're doing right now we're

00:10:09.900 using that slido app with some of the people are in the room and some of the people are online we're

00:10:14.280 say okay this is the options how many of you are in favor of this you know what I mean and so we're

00:10:18.980 trying to facilitate the discussion and we're trying to get more and more people involved which

00:10:22.460 as you know is a is a challenge but I want to say well I'm while we're talking this is how much we

00:10:28.200 appreciate like the independent media and what you and true north do and our friends at the western

00:10:33.080 standard and the rebel news I mean well not to do it our own horns but we've been the only media that

00:10:37.360 have covered these conferences which have been tremendous I remember the first one I was at pre-pandemic

00:10:41.840 over 400 people yeah absolutely and not one person from the 2.4 billion dollar subsidized

00:10:48.000 mainstream media even commented on it let alone came and commented and so yes I mean we wouldn't

00:10:53.040 be getting our message out at all if it weren't for you and we are very grateful for that I mean

00:10:56.840 I think it's good business for you you're obviously hopefully finding a market that but I you know I

00:11:01.340 like John made that point yesterday morning he said like like for all you folks like that you know

00:11:07.280 have two or three coffees every day at Tim Hortons no disrespect to Tim Hortons but if you gave

00:11:11.460 that some of that money to independent media and and if you want to win we're going to have to do it

00:11:16.360 and one of the things that you and I talked about when we were discussing you come in this time we

00:11:20.100 said there's no point having a referendum if we don't have independent media to get the facts out

00:11:24.840 there the people because so many people all they know is what CBC told them which as you know is

00:11:29.140 increasingly further and further from the truth absolutely so Alberta could have its own public

00:11:34.280 broadcaster if it wanted to be on CBC that's right yeah Danny Ozak I appreciate you letting me be a part

00:11:39.140 of this both as a journalist and also as a speaker thank you thanks for having me on we yeah we'll look

00:11:43.520 forward to seeing at our next conference okay thank you thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton

00:11:47.660 show support the program by donating to true north at www.tnc.news

Juno News - April 04, 2021

Alberta Independence vs. Separation

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