Juno News - Alberta NDP wants a divorce from Jagmeet Singh

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true

00:01:19.660 north hello and welcome to you all one more episode for the week here on this thursday june

00:01:30.780 27th 2024 great to have you aboard the program here on the andrew lawton show canada's most

00:01:37.080 irreverent talk show and we have an absolutely wonderful show planned for you today i've been

00:01:42.140 working on this for a little while not not because it was like this giant giant thing it'll be good

00:01:47.180 but just because it was very difficult to pin down the scheduling, it seems like every week,

00:01:52.080 sometimes multiple times a week, there have been more and more things where Alberta is going up

00:01:58.100 against Ottawa in a very substantive way. And it oftentimes comes back to environmental policy. So

00:02:04.280 that is where we're really looking at this changing relationship, this changing federalism

00:02:09.900 relationship, and specifically with Alberta and Ottawa. And so at the center of it, obviously,

00:02:14.100 is Alberta's Environment Minister, Rebecca Schultz, who we've had on the show in the past.

00:02:17.760 She actually ran for the leadership against Danielle Smith, but has since become a very

00:02:22.360 supportive and strong member of Danielle Smith's caucus. And I wanted to just do a deep dive with

00:02:28.780 Minister Rebecca Schultz on this, a deep dive on how Ottawa and Alberta are going at it and how

00:02:35.900 she certainly, I would assume, thinks Alberta is going to come out on head. So in about 10 minutes

00:02:40.620 or so minister rebecca schultz will join me we'll have a whole half hour with her so if you have any

00:02:44.460 questions you want me to put to alberta's environment minister about alberta's environmental

00:02:48.860 policy but in general about how provinces can assert their autonomy please do let us know in

00:02:53.740 the comments we'll try to put a couple of those to the minister later on uh interestingly i should

00:02:59.020 just say i'm still doing it's kind of winding down now but i've been doing for the last few weeks the

00:03:04.220 the media rounds on my new book,

00:03:05.980 The Biography of Pierre Polly Evieux.

00:03:08.020 So unsubtly see over my right shoulder.

00:03:11.220 I think it's right for you.

00:03:12.260 Yeah, it would be a right shoulder for you

00:03:13.440 because otherwise the text on this would be backwards.

00:03:15.820 But anyway, so I've done this

00:03:18.200 and despite my criticisms of the legacy media,

00:03:20.640 they've been very, very gracious in having me on.

00:03:22.680 I've been on CBC.

00:03:23.600 I have done, believe it or not,

00:03:25.060 I think 34 interviews with CBC.

00:03:28.960 That is a lot of CBC interviews.

00:03:30.480 I did one more yesterday.

00:03:32.020 it was a cbc radio call-in show in saskatchewan and i did the interview it was a lot of fun and

00:03:38.280 then the host was taking calls from people and this is saskatchewan this is a province that has

00:03:43.020 i believe every single seat being conservative but that doesn't mean every single person is

00:03:48.220 conservative and boy some of the callers had some strong thoughts not about me they were all

00:03:53.380 directing them at polyab one of them i thought was going to make a compliment they're like well

00:03:57.140 you know, he seems very Harperite to me. And then they followed that up with he's a fascist. And I 0.90

00:04:02.380 said, Oh, okay, well, that escalated quickly. And there were a few people that had very, very deep

00:04:06.760 concerns about his pledge to defund the CBC, which I guess is not all that surprising, given that they

00:04:11.820 were listening to CBC radio in Saskatchewan when they have other great private stations like CJME,

00:04:17.640 for example, that I was on a couple of weeks back, but it was a lot of fun. And I also had an event

00:04:22.540 in norwich ontario and a number of listeners came out viewers of this show so thank you so much to

00:04:27.500 those who did it was great to meet you in person and see a couple of you again but let's just talk

00:04:32.460 a little bit more i swear we're going to move on from the toronto st paul's by-election after this

00:04:36.460 week but i cannot overstate how significant a development this by-election was in the broader

00:04:42.860 political landscape now uh sean this this just came up so if you could try to get that clip of

00:04:48.380 of Mark Holland that one of our colleagues was sharing. This is a tremendous clip that I want

00:04:54.060 to share with people. It just came like a second before we went on air. I won't give it away too,

00:04:59.580 too much. But I will tell you that I think the NDP has been getting a little bit of a pass here

00:05:04.400 because it's easy to point out how this was a grand failing for the Liberals. And it was. It

00:05:08.780 was easy to point out how Justin Trudeau absolutely just crapped the bed on this and has a coterie of

00:05:15.140 cabinet ministers now coming out to pretend that everything is fine and they have great confidence

00:05:20.220 in him. Meanwhile, all of these anonymous caucus members from the Liberals are blabbing to reporters

00:05:25.500 at CBC, the Globe and Mail, the Toronto Star and saying, yeah, Justin Trudeau's got to go.

00:05:30.680 And that's all fine. And I think we need to have that discussion. But can we talk about how much

00:05:35.240 of a profound failure Jagmeet Singh's NDP was? The NDP ran a candidate here, Emrit Parhar, who got

00:05:42.700 10.9% of the vote. 10.9% of the vote in Toronto. In Toronto. Remember, the NDP is incredibly strong

00:05:54.080 provincially and provincial politics in Toronto. But federally, the NDP was an absolute non-entity

00:06:00.460 in this. 10.9% of the vote. Just to give a little bit of context, in 2021, the NDP had 15.89%.

00:06:07.580 percent uh sorry no in uh well that's redistributed so 15 to 16 percent uh because the boundary had

00:06:14.060 changed a little bit that was in 2021 in 2019 the ndp had 15.78 percent in 2015 around 15 percent

00:06:22.780 and that was with noah richler who's a bit of canadian royalty but the ndp again not a huge

00:06:28.060 player but a drop from 15 or so percent to what do we what do we have again for this year

00:06:34.860 a drop from 15 to 10.9 percent and i don't even know if jagmeet singh really uh that's my book i

00:06:44.140 see on the screen there pierre paulieva political life yes that wasn't an intentional ad but you

00:06:48.060 know glad you got to see it again uh the jagmeet singh uh did not even really campaign didn't even

00:06:54.940 go there i'm not even convinced that he visited the riding during the by-election if so i i don't

00:06:59.500 follow his moves really really closely because i prefer to you know pay attention to people who

00:07:02.860 matter and are relevant but uh he was there and what was fascinating to me in all of this is that

00:07:09.100 the ndp are the ones that i think are have an opportunity here to be the principled lefties

00:07:14.380 of canadian politics they have the opportunity to be the principled voices for all of the things

00:07:19.180 that justin trudeau pretends he cares about and pretends to stand up for and they don't do that

00:07:24.220 so i've heard rumblings and rumors the kind that you always have to take with you know 17 000

00:07:29.180 and grains of salt in that the NDP are really going to consider strongly, which I know sounds

00:07:35.800 equivocal as it is, pulling their supply and confidence agreement by the fall. And it might

00:07:40.220 even happen over the summer, but it's a bit of an empty gesture because MPs are not going to do

00:07:45.180 anything until they go back to the House of Commons in the fall. But the NDP, I mean, could

00:07:51.060 finally try to assert some sort of independence, some sort of autonomy, some sort of a goal here.

00:07:57.380 But what's fascinating is that provincially, the NDP wants nothing to do with the NDP federally

00:08:02.400 when it comes to Alberta.

00:08:03.880 So Nahed Nenshi, who is the new leader of the Alberta NDP as of Saturday, has now decided

00:08:10.160 to go full steam ahead on really pushing for a divorce between the Alberta NDP and the

00:08:15.600 federal NDP, which right now are harmonized, where if you get a membership in one, it comes

00:08:19.780 with a membership to the other.

00:08:22.260 Now, Rachel Notley had not been as far left as Jagmeet Singh on a number of issues, notably

00:08:27.980 energy issues, but even she never wanted to sever these two things, whereas Nenshi is looking at

00:08:32.920 the Jagmeet Singh NDP brand in Ottawa and saying, like, this is just not at all something that we

00:08:38.020 want anything to do with. So I'll talk about that in a second, but I wanted to play the Mark

00:08:41.840 Holland clip because this is Mark Holland explaining why the Liberals really lost in

00:08:46.700 Toronto St. Paul's. Thank you very much. I will point out just the record. It was not hypothetical

00:08:52.280 for 40,000 people in Toronto St. Paul's on Monday. They did actually make a decision.

00:08:57.600 So let me take let me take the the first part of what you said, because you're right. People in

00:09:01.160 St. Paul's made a decision and we're responding to that. But I I think that people in St. Paul's

00:09:05.540 knew they weren't changing the government. They were saying we're upset at the world right now.

00:09:10.140 People I knocked on those doors. I didn't hear anybody saying I love Pierre Polyev's plan for

00:09:14.880 the country because he doesn't have one you know uh he's reflected the anger that exists in the

00:09:19.840 world well well done you know where are people happy in the world right now it's a tough time

00:09:24.480 to be alive as a human being um and you know so that that that was about frustration of being able

00:09:30.500 to express it without changing governments and i understand that and that message is heard loud and

00:09:35.080 clear and for terry dan and i like yeah we're gonna like dig deeper i'm gonna wake up in the

00:09:40.940 morning and try to work harder and try to do more and try to meet the frustrations of those people

00:09:45.740 with better effort and and clearer communication but you know i don't think saying that they made

00:09:52.040 a decision about the kind of country or government they want is at all accurate

00:09:55.600 people are just venting where else are be no one's happy people of course are unhappy it's like

00:10:03.640 my goodness absolutely fascinating uh to me that he's so tone deaf it's basically now

00:10:10.180 everyone's unhappy so he's doing the polyev thing that the liberals criticized him for doing of

00:10:14.960 saying everything is broken in canada uh he's just oh yeah everyone's miserable of course they're

00:10:18.700 all they're just venting everyone's just blowing off steam it's like the boys will be boys of

00:10:23.380 political punditry following a by-election loss but to go back to the ndp for a moment what

00:10:28.920 nahid nenshi is saying here is that the federal ndp is not at all not at all on board with what

00:10:37.380 he thinks the NDP needs to be in Alberta. And I think a lot of people in the province realized

00:10:41.380 that they had their, you know, dalliance, they had their mistake of Rachel Notley, they wanted

00:10:46.640 to get away from that. And I think are probably going to take another 30 years before they do

00:10:51.380 something so foolish again. And I think he realized that the only way to exist and to be 0.95

00:10:57.540 successful, if that's at all possible, is to be a more moderate party. I mean, sure, take the NDP

00:11:02.580 brand and resources and history and all of that. But the NDP brand itself in Alberta

00:11:08.960 needs to be separate from the NDP brand federally. So where is that leaving you in the province of

00:11:16.760 Alberta? Well, remember here that what they're looking at is an NDP federally that no longer

00:11:22.880 wants to be the party of the working class. It no longer wants to be, I mean, Jack Layton,

00:11:27.580 I feel like I owe Jack Layton an apology in a way, because I used to, as a young, rambunctious, right-leaning Canadian, see him as being this left-wing radical by virtue of leading the NDP.

00:11:38.380 And now I would long for a Jack Layton to be running.

00:11:41.420 I would long for a Thomas Mulcair to be running the NDP, because these folks at least had a solid understanding of the confines of political reality, of just reality in general.

00:11:52.780 You know, Nikki Ashton today, who's one of the most far left members of Canadian politics and of the Parliament of Canada, had come out and she was doing this press conference with these self-loathing Jews at Independent Jewish Voices and saying we need to stop any charities that are putting money in towards, quote unquote, colonizing Palestinians.

00:12:13.260 So she basically doesn't want any Canadian charities to give money that goes to Israel at all.

00:12:18.840 And not the state of Israel, but, you know, just Israeli enterprise and Israeli humanitarian work.

00:12:24.680 And I responded on Twitter.

00:12:26.240 I haven't gotten a response, and I'm not really expecting one from her.

00:12:29.400 You know, is she concerned about all the charities that are funneling money to Hamas?

00:12:32.840 No, she's not.

00:12:33.700 Because she's so committed to this colonizer, colonize-y dichotomy that she views everything from,

00:12:40.240 she is not interested in dealing with reality.

00:12:42.380 There are far too many NDPers right now who think the biggest threat to the world is no one recognizing their they, them, zim, zir pronouns and not perhaps mobilizing us labor.

00:12:54.760 So, you know, if you're a blue collar union worker, the NDP no longer speaks to you.

00:12:59.160 And this is one of the reasons that Pierre Polyev has had such success, because Jagmeet

00:13:03.520 Singh, who again is a Rolex-wearing, Versace bag-toting, Bay Street lawyer, is not the

00:13:10.620 working class representative in Ottawa.

00:13:13.480 He just isn't.

00:13:14.760 This is the guy who outs celebrities Justin Trudeau.

00:13:17.880 Was it Esquire or GQ that did the full takeout on Jagmeet Singh?

00:13:21.920 I can't remember.

00:13:22.600 And look, you know, no one would put me on the cover of a magazine.

00:13:25.320 It would be like the worst selling magazine in the history of the publishing industry.

00:13:29.160 So I don't fault him for it.

00:13:30.560 Maybe you want to say I'm jealous that he got like the whole Jagmeet Singh centerfold.

00:13:33.800 Well, maybe not a centerfold.

00:13:36.000 I take that back.

00:13:36.940 But, you know, the whole point is he has not done a thing to advance the NDP cause.

00:13:44.600 And look, I'm not a new Democrat.

00:13:46.000 So you may be saying, why do I care?

00:13:47.720 I care for two reasons, one of which is politically.

00:13:50.320 I think our system works best when you have a voice for the left, when you have a voice

00:13:55.120 for the center left and a voice for the right.

00:13:57.320 I think that has historically been a good balance, but the liberals have not been interested

00:14:01.740 in being a centrist voice.

00:14:03.560 They've certainly not even been interested in being a center left voice.

00:14:06.140 The liberals have pushed the NDP in so many ways.

00:14:09.880 So far to the left, they don't have much wiggle room.

00:14:12.740 And you see some panic online about this, where lefties are going after their own parties

00:14:18.860 in the same way that some conservative aligned people were before the merger of the alliance

00:14:23.980 and PC parties federally.

00:14:25.240 And they're saying, we need to unite the left.

00:14:26.760 we need to bring the liberals and the NDP together. Otherwise, conservatives are going to win and

00:14:30.260 they're panicked. And they think the alternative to that is basically a two-party system where you

00:14:34.680 have the left-wing party, you have the right-wing party, and we're supposedly going to have a

00:14:39.860 functioning system that works in that sense. But what I'm going to be fascinated to see is what

00:14:45.380 happens in Alberta, because Alberta NDP members are going to get to vote on this. Nahed Nenshi

00:14:50.120 is the leader. He had a large mandate. I think it was like 85% of the vote, just absolutely

00:14:55.120 massive. And this was above like former cabinet ministers in that party. So he clearly has

00:15:01.420 resonated with voters. I don't know if the members are going to support this push of his. And I don't

00:15:08.760 know in what numbers, because if they don't, if they say, no, no, no, we're, we're new Democrats

00:15:12.420 and we're happy to be aligned with the federal NDP, then fine power to them. I think they're

00:15:16.640 relegated to the dustbin of history as basically an accidental government in the same way that Bob

00:15:22.120 raised in Ontario was back in the, I guess, was it 1990, I think that election was, or 80, 88,

00:15:28.740 89, I don't know, it was around then. But then you look at the other side, if they conversely

00:15:34.840 vote to sever and vote to divorce, it's a huge rebuke of the federal NDP. If you have one of

00:15:41.720 the most legitimate provincial new democratic parties, the Alberta NDP, saying to the federal

00:15:47.720 NDP. We are just not that into you. So again, look, I think liberals need to have a very serious

00:15:54.600 discussion about whether their leaders is representing them well at the federal level,

00:15:58.260 but new Democrats really do. Because as I've said time and time again on this show,

00:16:02.660 Jagmeet Singh could have been the most powerful player in Canadian politics for the last

00:16:07.940 two years or so, the last two and a half years. He could have been tremendously,

00:16:12.920 tremendously effective if he were a person that had a more solid head on his shoulders and knew

00:16:18.340 what he was doing he could have wielded tremendous power but has chosen not to and still he could he

00:16:23.220 could i mean better late than never he could if he wants force an election but then he would be

00:16:27.700 resigned to accept that canadians don't particularly want him and i think the toronto st paul's by

00:16:32.300 election is just as much a wake-up call for the ndp as it is for the liberals but as i said i

00:16:38.800 wanted to do something very special on this show. I want to talk about, it'll start with Alberta

00:16:43.300 versus Ottawa in a lot of ways, but if you're not from Alberta, I want you to pay attention because

00:16:48.500 there's a bigger story here about how provinces can assert their own autonomy and assert their

00:16:54.260 own sovereignty. And I think we've seen in the last year in particular, more and more provinces

00:16:59.840 get a little bit more emboldened in this sense, not just on pushing on the parental rights

00:17:05.020 discussions like we saw in New Brunswick and Alberta and Saskatchewan and for a moment in

00:17:09.520 Ontario but pushing back against Ottawa's encroachment on provincial domain and provincial

00:17:15.080 territorial sovereignty and just yesterday we spoke to Christine Van Gein from the Canadian

00:17:20.500 Constitution Foundation about the federal course the federal court of appeal case going on this

00:17:26.040 week as the government federally defends its plastics ban and you have provinces saying like

00:17:32.240 it's not even about whether the ban is good or not you don't have the right to do this you don't

00:17:36.100 have the right to snap your fingers and say this is a criminal law matter just because you don't

00:17:40.540 want people to be able to use straws that aren't going to disintegrate within five seconds when

00:17:45.420 they go out for lunch or dinner at a restaurant so one of the provinces that has been leading the

00:17:50.100 way not just on pushing back against this but a number of other similar encroachments from the

00:17:54.160 feds has been alberta and so much of this comes down to environmental policy i thought it would

00:17:59.120 be great to do a deep dive with Alberta Environment Minister Rebecca Schultz. Minister, good to have

00:18:04.560 you back on the show. Thanks for coming on today. Yeah, it's great to see you again. We've been

00:18:09.760 trying to set this up for weeks and you're so busy because the federal government basically

00:18:14.540 keeps giving you things that you need to fight them on. So I'm glad we were able to get a bit

00:18:18.380 of time today. Just before we get into the plastics ban, I wanted to ask you about the budget because

00:18:24.340 putting in the federal budget this ban on oil and gas companies touting their environmental records

00:18:31.920 is i i think particularly disgraceful because you don't even really get to debate this policy

00:18:36.980 in isolation uh you know i remember when people first started talking about it and they say oh

00:18:41.260 bill c59 and you look up c59 and like well this has nothing to do with oil and gas this is a

00:18:45.760 budget implementation bill but what the government is doing is is effectively what charlie angus was

00:18:50.960 mocked for proposing a few weeks ago which is saying that oil and gas companies should be

00:18:55.320 treated like tobacco companies effectively and banned from talking about what they're doing

00:19:00.500 well explain what the effect of that would be in in your province but in canada generally

00:19:05.780 yeah and you know i was actually just gonna joke it's it's a good thing that it took us a little

00:19:10.680 bit longer to set up this interview because now we get to talk about bill c59 yeah now we have

00:19:15.480 more material to work with oh my gosh it's it's honestly it is the topic that everybody wants to

00:19:21.580 talk about and you know this week uh i had a meeting with the calgary chamber of commerce

00:19:26.480 and a number of their members and just a round table and i can tell you that c59 was the topic

00:19:31.740 of conversation and you're exactly right uh there wasn't a lot of conversation about it because it

00:19:36.300 was snuck in there uh this as an amendment and when mp charlie angus raised essentially his private

00:19:45.180 members motion I think people did they laughed it off like this isn't gonna be something that

00:19:49.980 happens in Canada and uh that's exactly what this is this is a gag order not just on energy on you

00:19:57.880 know any business that wants to talk about their uh environmental record uh and it is I think

00:20:03.540 because of the the outrage that we've seen from some of the NGOs and I would say the more radical

00:20:09.060 left this is exactly what they were trying to do with this amendment and so it really does put

00:20:15.080 industry and businesses in a position where they're not able to talk about their their true

00:20:18.980 record or their true facts um in the public without risk of massive fines 15 million dollars

00:20:25.560 and obviously there are concerns around a percentage of of uh their revenues which is

00:20:31.400 a massive risk for for industries but it's not just energy this is a major risk uh for agriculture

00:20:38.360 i would say you know when we have a a federal environment minister that says you know we're

00:20:43.260 going to build any more roads i think anybody in transportation should be highly concerned um but

00:20:48.940 really this impacts any and all industries that are working to do the right thing for the environment

00:20:53.900 that just a couple of of whether it be more folks on the more radical uh eco left uh or or certain

00:21:02.860 end goes can bring these challenges forward just because they don't like uh the record that a

00:21:08.300 company is sharing and uh you know i think when we look here in alberta we do we do tend to talk a

00:21:13.580 lot about energy because we're very proud of our energy production here but the facts are that

00:21:18.700 while production goes up to meet canadian and global demand for energy that that demand is

00:21:24.380 rising every single day we're also proud of our environmental record that emissions uh intensity

00:21:30.940 is going down so that's per barrel emissions um in the oil sense they've been down over 20

00:21:35.580 percent. You know, when we look at our methane emissions, those have been reduced by 45%. We

00:21:40.880 were able to do that three years ahead of schedule. We worked with industry. We took a different

00:21:45.920 approach than the federal government. We saved industry $600 million as we worked to roll that

00:21:50.560 out. Electricity emissions are down. And again, like overall emissions are down while demand and

00:21:58.300 production rise. That is a success story. And that is a story that, you know, quite frankly,

00:22:03.780 the Trudeau liberals, but I also say it's not just one person. This is the entire NDP liberal

00:22:09.140 coalition that is seeking to shut down voices that don't fit the narrative that they believe in. And

00:22:15.480 that is a problem. Like last week being in Washington, I was asked, do you not have

00:22:21.620 a protection, a freedom of speech in your constitution? Like that's an embarrassing

00:22:28.180 place to be as a country. And that should be really concerning for Canadians.

00:22:32.240 Yeah, you're fielding questions as though you're, you know, some delegate from some like tin pot dictatorship. And that's the way that, you know, our allies to the south are looking at us here. And just to put this in context, Pathways Alliance, which is a group that I think, I mean, some energy advocates have always criticized Pathways Alliance for being not pro-energy enough, which is funny because it is a, you know, an industry representative group.

00:22:55.480 They shut down their website because they don't believe that they will be compliant with C-59 because their whole thing is touting the environmental achievements of the oil and gas sector.

00:23:04.960 And it's amazing because there isn't even in this a defense of truth, which in any other free speech case, you could always lean on the defense of truth.

00:23:14.100 It's not even like these companies are given the benefit of the doubt in that sense with what the government is doing here, where if they can verify the claims, it's fine because no one is disputing the actual facts of it.

00:23:23.680 They're just saying, I don't want oil and gas to tell a positive story.

00:23:27.580 Yeah, you're exactly right.

00:23:29.280 And, you know, I think we see that.

00:23:31.100 I mean, even when we were talking about our methane emissions reduction, of course, there

00:23:35.060 was a group out of Carleton University supported by an anti-fossil fuel, ENGO, that was really

00:23:40.980 quite critical of our numbers.

00:23:42.420 And look, we're very proud of our work on methane emissions reduction, but also our

00:23:46.520 methodology for measuring and reporting that is more transparent than the vast majority

00:23:52.520 of places around the world, we're proud of that record. And so, you know, of course, it wasn't

00:23:58.320 just one group, it wasn't just pathways. But I mean, oil sands per barrel emissions intensity

00:24:03.380 is down. So for every barrel that they're producing, those emissions have gone down

00:24:08.540 by I believe it's 21% and more to come on that front. But it's not just them. I mean,

00:24:14.680 the Business Council of Alberta, the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers,

00:24:18.280 The Chamber of Commerce, again, not just energy companies saying that this is problematic, but there was even a liberal appointed Trudeau appointed senator who said, look, we've got some issues here.

00:24:30.800 We don't have enough information about how this is going to work to actually put this through.

00:24:36.100 That said, I mean, they they've they rammed it through, obviously, the House and the Senate anyways.

00:24:41.700 But because there's so much uncertainty right now about what this looks like, what this

00:24:46.340 actually means for these businesses, what the process is going to be, you know, companies

00:24:50.540 have investors, they have shareholders, there's, you know, a lot of uncertainty.

00:24:55.000 And I mean, the government of Canada has come out and said, okay, now we're going to consult

00:24:58.420 on maybe what that's going to look like.

00:25:00.280 This has massive implications for our businesses in a variety of industries.

00:25:06.660 Like I said, like, yeah, sure.

00:25:08.480 It's a gag order.

00:25:09.360 uh this is censorship absolutely but like these again this is just another policy and a long

00:25:15.520 list of policies that are in driving investment out of canada i i'm wondering if there is any

00:25:22.600 concern that you've heard from other industries that feel it might not stop with them i mean

00:25:28.120 obviously charlie angus liked to compare oil and gas to big tobacco but i think you could easily

00:25:32.780 see you know the food services industry for example be targeted with something quite similar

00:25:37.480 yeah and you know i just i'm writing down as you ask the questions because you you touched on the

00:25:42.600 the comparison to big tobacco like that is wildly disingenuous people cannot live without oil and

00:25:50.120 gas we definitely can't in canada like think about that think about what that looks like in the middle

00:25:54.840 of winter uh you know when we're at minus 40 and beyond like people can't live without it we also

00:26:00.360 can't live our day-to-day lives uh without things that have been produced by oil and gas or the

00:26:06.760 petrochemical industries um everything from our cell phones everything to um you know the tools

00:26:13.800 uh needed to do medical procedures like this would shut down uh our entire lives and and quite

00:26:20.280 frankly would risk people's well not just well-being it's like health and safety this is

00:26:25.240 this would be a life or death situation if we actually did shut down fossil fuels which is

00:26:28.760 what those folks are looking to do um you know it has been raised with me though uh to your point

00:26:34.040 the agriculture industry i mean was it just uh a year ago or two years ago now it i mean the the

00:26:39.480 bad policies from the liberals are endless um but you know when they were seeking to limit fertilizer

00:26:45.560 use um yeah sure of course they're coming after agriculture i mean again ministry both saying

00:26:52.120 we're not going to build any more roads you better believe transportation is next manufacturing you

00:26:57.240 know what happens when uh auto manufacturers uh are targeted right like i mean it's one thing for

00:27:03.720 for this to be a conversation and it's starting here in Alberta uh you know we we did a lot of

00:27:08.020 work to flag this um our energy uh industry and other industries uh have come out uh in opposition

00:27:14.280 to it but like they're they're not going to stop at energy this is going to impact um I would say

00:27:20.740 almost all areas of of our economy and it should be pretty concerning let me ask you if I can about

00:27:27.900 the plastics ban too because it's easy to focus on the silliness of this I know uh premier Danielle

00:27:33.300 Smith did a photo op with a big, long plastic straw. I had done one up a couple of weeks earlier,

00:27:37.760 and I just like drank out of 20 straws at once because to celebrate the federal court striking

00:27:42.120 down the plastics ban. But it's not just about straws. And it's also about something far more

00:27:46.680 fundamental, which is the federal government trying to rewrite or reinterpret the Constitution

00:27:50.560 for its own ideological convenience. And I know Alberta is fighting this in court. As it stands

00:27:56.280 now, the ban has been defeated. But who knows what will happen at the federal court of appeal

00:28:01.420 or at the Supreme Court.

00:28:02.980 But is this not one of the most insidious examples

00:28:07.600 of the government really trying to just make up

00:28:10.240 the Constitution on the fly?

00:28:12.720 Absolutely.

00:28:13.660 And I mean, I've raised that with Minister Kipo

00:28:15.880 and certainly our Premier has raised that

00:28:19.020 on a number of different occasions.

00:28:20.940 I mean, you have a federal government.

00:28:23.740 I actually love how Premier Smith talks about it.

00:28:25.900 She says, we have a federal government

00:28:27.180 that is acting lawlessly because they are.

00:28:29.340 They're acting like the Constitution.

00:28:31.420 You know, it doesn't it doesn't impact them like they don't have to follow it.

00:28:36.820 And just to interject there for a moment, Minister, I recall when the Sovereignty Act was proposed, you had a lot of critics and academia from the Liberals that were saying it was Alberta that was doing the end run around the Constitution, when really it's the exact opposite.

00:28:48.840 The Sovereignty Act is a response to the Feds doing end runs around the Constitution on a regular basis.

00:28:54.540 Well, yeah, absolutely. And so, you know, I would say we definitely see it in plastics, but we also see it in policies like the emissions cap, the Impact Assessment Act. And so, you know, certainly with where the courts have come out on this plastics legislation and the Impact Assessment Act.

00:29:13.260 I mean, I have some hope for where we're headed now, given that the courts have said, look, this is unreasonable and unconstitutional.

00:29:23.020 You know, unfortunately, we have a federal environment minister who told me when I raised those rulings from the court.

00:29:29.760 He said, you know, those aren't decisions. Those are just opinions, opinions of the highest courts in our country.

00:29:36.140 sure. But, you know, then you have the complete and utter mixed messages coming from the federal

00:29:43.040 liberals again, that, you know, you have, I think, you know, it was safe to say everybody was really

00:29:49.900 excited to see Dow make a final investment decision for a petrochemical facility in Alberta.

00:29:55.260 Minister Wilkinson and Freeland were there, you know, yay, we want to see this investment,

00:29:59.540 we wanted it to come to Canada. And yet you have Minister Guibault bringing through this

00:30:03.220 plastics legislation that creates so much uncertainty about that plastic circular economy,

00:30:08.820 that's a problem. That is completely a contradictory message. And that plastics

00:30:13.960 legislation, you know, I mean, we were obviously very vocal against it alongside a number of the

00:30:20.800 colleagues and other, or sorry, a number of the companies and other provinces. We're happy to

00:30:25.760 see that investment come here. We want to see a plastic circular economy. That's actually good.

00:30:30.680 When people are recycling and we can take plastic waste and turn it into new materials, that's actually an environmental win.

00:30:38.960 And that is what is at risk with Stephen Guibo's plastics legislation.

00:30:43.480 And so that's where, again, you know, it's completely ideological and ignores common sense and the reality of what's actually happening out here.

00:30:52.420 And I think that's where you hear the frustration from people across the country, but also provinces and, of course, from the business community that we're seeing.

00:31:02.020 Speaking of Minister Gilboa, one of the things that you mentioned and goes in a lot of these eco radicals before.

00:31:08.400 I mean, I don't know if they've ever had one of them as the environment minister, which I think very much applies to Gilboa,

00:31:15.300 given his longstanding track record as an activist and protester and one who was criminally arrested for his displays.

00:31:22.720 But you've called and the premier has called for him to be fired.

00:31:26.500 So obviously that doesn't suggest that there's a rosy relationship that you have.

00:31:31.640 But do you actually speak to him? Do you have a relationship with him?

00:31:35.220 And have you had any success with him on any file?

00:31:38.440 You know, I would say, of course, we have conversations and I imagine we'll be meeting again this summer.

00:31:43.420 You know, I have talked publicly about our meeting, you know, when we were at COP and Minister Yebo was unwilling to share information on the oil and gas emissions cap, that when I asked for details on that cap, his response was that I should sign an NDA and that he couldn't actually give me details of something that was about to be announced 48 hours later.

00:32:04.640 that is not that is not how this federal provincial relationship is supposed to function

00:32:11.720 and again like when you have this federal government that is just so very utterly and

00:32:18.180 completely disregarding the laws of our country we have no choice but to defend ourselves that said

00:32:24.500 we still have to have conversations about areas where there is overlap and you know I think the

00:32:30.420 challenge is that you know you have a conversation um we view the world i think in in very different

00:32:37.860 ways and ultimately we have despite the fact that we have provided data and i'll use clean electricity

00:32:44.420 but the oil and gas emissions cap would be the same the work on methane would be the same that

00:32:49.540 we have officials in in both of our departments working to share information to um you know look

00:32:56.580 at data that you know what do we actually know uh look at socioeconomic impacts of these proposed

00:33:02.180 policies the problem is is we still have a minister that says okay well sure those are

00:33:08.100 your numbers but i'm going to make this decision anyways uh regardless of job impacts economic

00:33:13.540 impacts um very real uh environmental impacts i would say uh in those cases so we continue to meet

00:33:20.180 we we have discussions is there any area where you know we've come to agreement on um you know

00:33:26.180 I would say we had a relatively positive conversation about oil sands mine water. We're

00:33:31.820 very committed to addressing those concerns. I also raised concerns I had with politicians,

00:33:39.560 I would say, making a political spectacle of something like water, which impacts people

00:33:44.480 they're really concerned about. We have some of the safest, highest quality drinking water

00:33:49.460 in the country in these areas. And so, you know, I did ask for him to ensure that he's not

00:33:56.540 sharing misinformation and being honest and open with communities while we have conversations

00:34:01.220 about some of the bigger issues we need to tackle. You know, on, I would say maybe some

00:34:08.120 issues around drought, we had some good conversations where we really were keeping

00:34:13.460 the federal government up to speed on the situation and what things were looking like here.

00:34:17.620 But again, I mean, you know, we have a Minister of Environment who is not, I would say it's not even a partisan thing. It's that he is an environmental activist, and he is making decisions that put his ideology ahead of the well-being of Albertans and Canadians that we were respectively elected to represent. And that, I think, is bad for democracy.

00:34:39.740 Yeah. And on the big picture issues, you don't have an ally in Ottawa. And just to go back to the federalist relationship here, ideally, the federal government, the national government and provinces are supposed to be partners rather than provinces being subordinated to the federal government.

00:34:56.480 And that's why, you know, the federal government doesn't have a veto over provincial laws.

00:35:02.500 And what was so tremendous about this is that the federal government has often acted, this current one, and past ones as well, as though they're really the father, if you will.

00:35:14.140 And, you know, they're the ones that get to, you know, parent the provinces.

00:35:16.880 And they do it in a very disingenuous way.

00:35:19.120 I mean, just as recently as a few weeks ago, the government was saying, no, no, no, the emissions cap isn't going to cut oil and gas production.

00:35:24.680 And then I think it was just last week, you get a report from Deloitte saying, oh, well, actually, as everyone but the federal government acknowledged, yes, it will.

00:35:32.480 Yeah. And that's not the first report. I mean, the Deloitte report.

00:35:35.480 No, it's the third, isn't it?

00:35:36.500 It's the third report. And so, you know, again, and I mean, I've been asking Minister Kibo, do some analysis.

00:35:44.160 Do you have any economic or socioeconomic analysis on the impacts of these policies that you're bringing through?

00:35:51.060 And, you know, he has discredited the analysis that we have provided, that others have provided, like SNP and the work that CAP, the Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers, had done, which really covers more the conventional side.

00:36:07.500 Again, there have been others. And, you know, his response is, well, you know, that that doesn't really take in. We haven't even rolled out what our policy is going to be. So that doesn't take into account, you know, where we're going to set this cap at.

00:36:21.060 I mean, come on, they've been talking about what this emissions cap is going to look like.

00:36:26.960 I mean, that also supports our concern that they haven't shared any information.

00:36:32.300 They're not having real conversations with either provinces or industry.

00:36:37.420 And, you know, again, like if you're going to have a conversation, you have to have the

00:36:43.040 conversation with the area that has jurisdiction, which is the provinces, whether that be on

00:36:47.080 clean electricity regulations, where we have the responsibility to ensure that our residents have

00:36:53.120 access to safe, affordable, reliable electricity. Same thing on an oil and gas emissions cap. This

00:36:58.860 will impact production. There is absolutely no question that as global demand continues to rise,

00:37:05.100 we want to meet that demand with our environmentally responsible, I would say,

00:37:10.320 socially responsibly produced energy. We want to meet those demands. We're going to continue to do

00:37:16.560 that and at some point your emissions cap is without question going to impact production

00:37:21.920 and so i think you know it and canadians are concerned i mean we see it across the country

00:37:27.120 you see it a lot when it's in relation to the carbon tax that i think people right across canada

00:37:34.000 see that this government has ignored the very real concerns and basic needs of canadians and

00:37:40.960 have put this environment environmental ideology at the forefront and i i think you know many have

00:37:47.280 said this is uh one of the most dangerous pieces of legislation since the national energy program

00:37:52.880 i mean uh that's that's big this has massive impacts on on us as a country and you know at

00:37:59.680 the beginning we talked a little bit about me being in washington and the trade relationship

00:38:04.080 that we have with the us i mean we provide the us with almost 60 of their oil imports

00:38:10.100 So not only are we meeting Canadians' needs, we're supporting other major countries' needs.

00:38:16.000 You know, that energy should come from us.

00:38:17.760 And if it's not coming from us, it's coming from China, India, Russia, places with fewer environmental regulations.

00:38:26.560 Again, emissions, air moves, emissions are shared.

00:38:30.580 It has the exact opposite impact on global emissions.

00:38:33.160 So it's pretty dangerous.

00:38:36.260 Yeah, I think you're right about that. And I would also point out that it's amazing how the government in Canada never wants to talk about the global picture. I mean, if you just look at the sheer numbers, Canada's emissions are what, you know, 1.4% of global emissions thereabouts.

00:38:52.400 And the reality is you have in China new coal plants being open.

00:38:56.580 You have in India, the just transition that we have shoved down our industry and our throats in Canada is basically non-existent.

00:39:05.280 And, you know, I remember a few years back or two years ago, I spoke to India's petroleum minister and because he had been on a panel on at a global conference in Davos.

00:39:15.320 And he was talking about the need to accelerate the transition.

00:39:17.960 And I asked him on the street after when I ran into him, he said, oh, yeah, I just sort of said that in the room.

00:39:22.140 that's not practical here. So, you know, you have all these other countries that are the beneficiary

00:39:26.360 of Canada, really taking aim at its energy sector. And, you know, the global emissions picture is not

00:39:33.160 being affected by anything Canada is doing. And even Canadian emissions are not being affected

00:39:37.080 by these things like the carbon tax, like emissions have gone up. Yeah, you know, I would say

00:39:43.280 that's where when we look at our emissions reduction goals as a province, we are hitting

00:39:48.840 our targets. Well, production continues to rise. We have decided to take an approach where we work

00:39:55.940 with industry to say, look, what technology exists? What's reasonable? How do we do things

00:40:01.120 better? How do we do things smarter? How can we change our policies, but still incentivize

00:40:05.740 industry to do the right thing for the environment? On the flip side, you have Canada just taking a

00:40:13.740 punitive approach, which again, you're exactly right. I mean, it drives investment out. It also

00:40:21.080 drives the production of energy out to other countries. And you're right. Then at the point

00:40:28.220 where we look at our little piece of the emissions pie, we could shut down all of our major industries,

00:40:33.100 all of them, not just the energy industry. And that emissions reduction space would be eaten up

00:40:38.740 in a very short amount of time by those other countries and that other type of development,

00:40:42.860 like coal like what we've seen over the last couple of years and so um you know i think this

00:40:48.300 is really where canadians want to see a government that is reasonable that shows common sense um that

00:40:55.340 isn't really just driven by uh an ideological activist perspective and you know i think when

00:41:03.420 it comes to these policies the federal government's approach is just deny deny deny like let's not

00:41:07.980 talk about it like canadians want to talk about the carbon tax and we have a federal government

00:41:12.620 who just essentially closes their ears and said,

00:41:15.340 yeah, we're not going to listen to that.

00:41:17.340 We're not going to listen to that.

00:41:18.720 And that's why I think they're in free fall in the polls.

00:41:21.040 I think the by-election that we just saw this week,

00:41:23.420 I mean, wild, right?

00:41:26.440 But I think it shows that what they're saying

00:41:28.940 completely disregards the very real concerns,

00:41:32.320 the everyday concerns of Canadians.

00:41:36.160 Let me ask you about what you'd like to see

00:41:39.060 moving forward here.

00:41:40.120 And I guess I'll compound this question and ask it in two parts here.

00:41:44.380 Number one, is there a sense that this is just a Gilbo issue or is it a liberal issue or is it an Ottawa issue?

00:41:53.500 And you're not convinced that, you know, even if there was a change in government, that these problems would go away.

00:41:57.640 And and beyond then, what would you like to see? What would you like to see moving forward?

00:42:01.500 You know, I mean, I say all of the time, I mean, as a conservative MLA in Alberta, I do believe that a change in government would solve a lot of problems because we would have a common sense government that cares about, I would say, the needs of everyday Canadians, especially when it comes to affordable and reliable, secure energy.

00:42:28.500 I mean, energy security for our country and for North America is very important. And so

00:42:34.620 these are things that, again, this federal liberal NDP coalition has completely ignored.

00:42:40.200 And that kind of answers your first question, which do I think this is a Gibbo issue? 0.99

00:42:45.400 Not solely. Absolutely not. Do I think it's just a Trudeau issue? No, because despite the fact that

00:42:50.420 they're driving this agenda, there's an entire cabinet that's just going along with it.

00:42:55.280 And so, you know, I think that this just shows that the entire liberal NDP coalition is so wildly out of touch.

00:43:02.920 You know, they say they care about affordability, yet they want to support the carbon tax.

00:43:07.560 You know, they say that, you know, they're listening to everyday Canadians.

00:43:11.440 You know what? Canadians really do care about having access to affordable, reliable electricity and energy.

00:43:17.000 They do. I can tell you they care about it in the middle of summer when it is hot and they need an air conditioner.

00:43:22.240 I can tell you that they care about it in the winter when, you know, baseload capacity is a is a very real concern in some provinces.

00:43:30.260 You know, we saw that here in Alberta in January. Right.

00:43:34.680 You know, we can't live off of solar and wind when the sun isn't shining and the wind isn't blowing.

00:43:42.560 So, you know, I think that this is a this is a bigger issue than just one or two people.

00:43:48.080 This is a complete disregard of everyday Canadians by the Liberal NDP coalition.

00:43:54.380 It just happens to be championed by Stephen Guibault and Justin Trudeau right now.

00:43:59.100 Fair enough.

00:44:00.100 Well, let me just ask you briefly, because I was talking about it before.

00:44:03.800 We had the new NDP leader in your province, Nahed Nenshi, say that he thinks they need a bit of a divorce from the federal NDP.

00:44:11.700 Do you think that will be enough to have the NDP in Alberta taken a bit more seriously by voters?

00:44:16.400 You know what, I'll tell you this, like as a Alberta MLA, when I was door knocking, the number one thing that I heard is, is how do we see a change in federal government? Like enough of Justin Trudeau, enough of the liberals. And I mean, come on, Nahed Nenshi is Justin Trudeau's choice for NDP leadership here in Alberta.

00:44:39.380 you know, I think we've seen that relationship over the last number of years. And so, you know,

00:44:45.740 whether or not they are linked through their bylaws and constitution as a party to the

00:44:51.800 to the federal NDP or not, make no mistake, Nenshi is very much linked in with the federal liberals.

00:44:59.240 And that's something that I don't think Albertans want to have anything to do with right now.

00:45:03.700 All right, fair enough. Environment Minister in Alberta, Rebecca Schultz,

00:45:06.980 Thanks so much for coming on today.

00:45:08.480 Really appreciate it.

00:45:09.620 Yeah, it was a pleasure.

00:45:11.040 All right.

00:45:11.440 Thank you.

00:45:12.160 That does it for us for today.

00:45:14.000 I am off for the rest of the week because that's when the show ends on Thursday and we come back on Monday.

00:45:19.820 But I'll be back tomorrow with another episode of Off the Record.

00:45:22.860 So we'll catch you then.

00:45:24.000 But in the meantime, thank you.

00:45:25.380 God bless and a good day to you all.

00:45:27.920 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show.

00:45:30.460 Support the program by donating to True North at www.tnc.news.

00:45:36.980 We'll be right back.

Juno News - June 27, 2024

Alberta NDP wants a divorce from Jagmeet Singh

Episode Stats

Summary

Transcript