Juno News - Alberta Parks minister explains what went wrong in Jasper

00:00:00.000 hi todd thank you so much for being here today before we get into the heavy subject matter of

00:00:11.160 jasper and the wildfires and what all went wrong back in july i just want to take a moment to

00:00:16.160 acknowledge that you're in your truck in rural alberta right now and that this is possible

00:00:20.440 because of elon musk starlink you said that's how you're connecting to us today

00:00:24.720 for my viewers who watch my show consistently you know that i'm a pretty big elon musk fan so

00:00:29.000 this is just so awesome to me that you're able to connect to us from your vehicle and have

00:00:32.940 perfectly clear and and very good internet it seems by all accounts how often are you connecting

00:00:38.980 um out in remote places in your vehicle uh all the time actually it you know rural alberta the you

00:00:46.120 know the service with cell phones and everything is so intermittent that it's uh it's incredibly

00:00:50.760 frustrating a lot of wasted time when when a person could be talking to people on the phone and then

00:00:55.340 as far as getting actually internet connection when you're uh when you're in rural alberta is

00:01:00.840 always tough too so this has been a really uh real game changer for me to be able to to be able to do

00:01:06.540 this and again i gets you know i use it for calling i use it for the uh for interviews like this and

00:01:11.920 everything it's uh it's very helpful yeah that's awesome i know you have a cabinet meeting a little

00:01:16.800 bit later so obviously you know you really rely on this my husband and i have had our fair share of

00:01:21.720 difficulties trying to connect out in rural alberta i think there's even been instances where

00:01:25.560 i like thought i wasn't gonna be able to get my show in just because i didn't have strong enough

00:01:29.020 internet so i think we're gonna be looking into starlink uh i'm pretty soon here you've sort of

00:01:33.540 sealed the deal for me so so that's awesome okay i want to talk to you specifically about this house

00:01:38.460 of commons committee meeting that was just sort of one of the biggest scandals that's unfolding

00:01:42.800 right now obviously canadians were shocked and horrified during the jasper wildfires

00:01:47.540 jasper jasper is such a historic village it's near and dear to a lot of people's hearts and it's

00:01:51.820 just such a beautiful part of canada and when those firefighters were going i know the premier

00:01:56.280 initially said that up to half the village would burn and now we know that one third of the buildings

00:02:01.180 burned and you know obviously it's reopened people can go back but there's so much that has been lost

00:02:06.040 and i think there's just a frustration among canadians um that pay attention to these issues and really feel

00:02:10.940 like more could have been done this house of commons parliamentary committee meeting really brought

00:02:15.200 those fears to roost with canadians hearing from a contract firefighter who said that he and his crew

00:02:23.040 showed up to help the efforts in fighting the wildfires and were essentially given a very hard

00:02:29.560 time by parks canada and told you're not allowed to be here in some cases they weren't even able

00:02:33.780 to connect to water sources such as the athabasca river so i want to kind of dive into maybe what went

00:02:38.080 wrong here let's start by playing this first initial clip here we can see a conservative mp questioning

00:02:44.020 this firefighter his name is chris levon and levon is explaining that his crew you know they're well

00:02:50.240 trained and really all the resources that they came readily available with let's take a look at

00:02:53.560 this first clip here we're able to muster enough vehicles to provide water yourself as a contingency 0.66

00:02:59.280 you don't you don't necessarily rely on being able to tie into a hydrant is that correct that's correct

00:03:04.720 it's been my experience from previous fires that the hydrant systems cannot be deemed as reliable

00:03:09.620 when you have because they're only designed to have one or two structure fires at a time so when

00:03:14.480 you have numerous fire trucks tying in it is not impossible for the water system to be completely

00:03:19.820 depleted so that's why we now use secondary water sources to supply water and you had the fire trucks

00:03:28.040 and the water trucks available in order to engage the fire and jasper in the town site correct

00:03:31.840 that's correct and you were told specifically that you could not access and you were told

00:03:37.140 specifically by parks officials to not engage in fighting the fire in jasper do i hear you did i hear

00:03:42.300 you say that correctly we were able to use water from pyramid lake and not from nathmaska river

00:03:47.200 and we were not allowed to engage the fire

00:03:49.940 20 fire trucks 50 firefighters not allowed to engage the fire

00:03:55.840 okay todd so there you really get a picture of what is going on there was 20 fire trucks 50

00:04:03.400 firefighters and you hear blaine culkin sort of repeating that in disbelief and a conservative

00:04:07.560 alberta mp hearing those numbers hearing that situation what's your initial reaction

00:04:11.680 to this information todd you know it's always frustrating when when people are there to help and

00:04:17.620 then just because of the processes involved with the federal government and parks canada

00:04:21.580 you know weren't able to it's something we did battle in alberta wildfire too and we've we've

00:04:26.620 been able to break down a lot of those barriers and make sure that there's uh there's that ability

00:04:30.840 you know we made sure that uh equipment uh you could be approved quicker and and put to work a lot

00:04:36.280 quicker than uh than what was done in the past but uh you know parks canada have hasn't got that system

00:04:41.480 in place they've uh this is probably that's maybe somewhat a new experience for them having a fire

00:04:46.760 wildfire of this magnitude uh when it comes to alberta wildfire you know we're dealing with

00:04:51.460 hundreds of fires a year and parks canada deals with tens of fires a year so so even though they

00:04:56.600 do have uh good people working for them they they just don't have the experience that alberta wildfire

00:05:00.840 has so in this instance this individual chris he works for a company called arctic fire safety

00:05:07.000 they ended up releasing a letter later on saying you know a number of things broke down they were

00:05:12.240 essentially hired by uh resorts that were based in jasper and you know the letter outlines a bunch of

00:05:17.680 the issues that they had that about parks canada obstructed their activities that they were told

00:05:21.820 that they were not legally allowed to be there they were denied access to athabasca river so you're

00:05:26.360 saying you know it sounds like this was really parks canada's first rodeo with something of this

00:05:31.540 magnitude is that really the is the at the issue here that they were just not prepared to deal with

00:05:36.120 a wildfire of this magnitude yeah i think they it's it's fair to say that they uh you know i don't

00:05:41.840 know any other time when a town in any of the national parks is burnt down like jasper did

00:05:46.640 and uh but when it comes to these uh you know these contractors coming in like these these hotels and

00:05:51.880 these different uh different places they have contracts their insurance company has insurance

00:05:56.500 companies have contracts with some of these firefighting crews to make sure that they can protect their

00:06:00.840 their assets themselves and uh and i i would have thought that there would have been free access to

00:06:05.900 for these companies to go in i know there was uh fire trucks going into fort mcmurray this spring when

00:06:10.900 i when the fire was approaching uh fort mcmurray and uh those were some contracted uh firefighting

00:06:18.000 trucks that were headed in there contracted by by different companies different hotels and things like

00:06:23.540 that to help battle the fire to make sure that they could protect their their own uh their own

00:06:28.100 assets there and so this is something that it that isn't uncommon and uh so i was a little surprised

00:06:33.480 that the that there wasn't a system in place for this so when you're saying that this is not entirely

00:06:39.280 uncommon to have these contractors if alberta wildfires had been the one responding to the the fire in

00:06:46.840 jasper as they would in other parts of the province where it's not you know a federally regulated um a

00:06:52.520 park what would the response of alberta wildfires have been if contractors showed up at the door and said

00:06:57.380 we're here to help yeah so when it comes to alberta wildfire we you know we fight the fire on the on

00:07:02.840 the land base out in the forested area forest protection area and so the municipalities are

00:07:07.380 the ones that are in charge of the wildfire when it comes into a municipality so for instance fort

00:07:11.660 mcmurray there when that fire was threatening fort mcmurray earlier this spring that was a

00:07:15.480 municipality that would have made the decision on allowing those uh those trucks to come in and

00:07:20.020 when it comes to alberta wildfire we you know we're we're working in mostly in the forested area

00:07:24.060 and that interface area where we're getting you know where the fire is getting close to

00:07:27.780 municipality so we work directly with the municipality but the municipality itself would

00:07:31.520 have been making the decision on the entrance of those vehicles into the town site and have you

00:07:36.780 ever heard of a situation like this before where contractors showed up and the municipality said

00:07:40.360 actually um we you guys aren't allowed to be here and and in that instance as well in a case where it

00:07:46.380 actually turns out that um for example in jasper you know one third of the buildings being burned

00:07:50.800 uh where a municipality turns away contractors and then ends up losing significant portions

00:07:55.060 of the municipality that they are you know in supposed to be protecting yeah so you know there's

00:08:02.040 there is situations that have happened in the past where municipalities have felt like they had

00:08:05.820 the fire under control themselves and and didn't want to have help from outside contractors but that

00:08:10.700 isn't a situation here this is this is a different situation where we have a municipality that may

00:08:15.640 have welcomed them but uh but parts can't be in control of the the uh the area there uh would

00:08:21.780 have been a different situation what we'd normally see in a municipality in alberta sure i want to play

00:08:27.000 one other clip from this interview where levon was saying a little bit alluding to what he thinks might

00:08:31.520 have broken down or he talks specifically about the legislative process he says there was no legislative

00:08:35.700 process that allowed us to be there let's play this next clip you had said that you were not you

00:08:40.940 were not legally allowed to be there could you explain why you were not

00:08:44.900 almost what was explained to us by the operation section chief uh the second in command to the incident

00:08:51.780 commander um as far as i know we were allowed to be there because uh this was through the park

00:08:59.080 scandal liaison person and our client uh that made these arrangements for us to be in there

00:09:04.280 um i guess there's no legislative process to allow contract firefighters be in there on behalf of other

00:09:15.260 parties must be the reasoning for that but we we did not show up there um unanticipated this was

00:09:23.360 arrangements that were made on behalf of our client pursuit and perks can't before we showed up

00:09:28.400 it's not like we show up at the door and might it be let in like barbarians we

00:09:32.820 it was our expectation that when we got to the gate that we were supposed to be

00:09:36.840 we made it to go in to do our job to help protect uh the economic uh engine of jasper

00:09:41.480 so there you hear christopher say you know we had been working with parks canada was our

00:09:48.040 understanding that we'd be allowed and we he actually says we didn't show up at the door

00:09:51.080 like barbarians demanding to be let in i thought that was funny um and as you mentioned it seems like

00:09:56.320 parks canada they just didn't really have the systems in place they weren't sure what to do with

00:09:59.800 these volunteers when they arrived for people like you and i who deal with the federal government

00:10:03.820 on a semi-fairly regular basis we are not surprised to see how this entire broke down

00:10:08.480 that seems to really be um on par with the federal government these days but when he specifically

00:10:13.740 mentions that legislative process i have to ask is this something that is now on the government of

00:10:19.440 alberta's radar and you know is there any way they can compel changes within parks canada to

00:10:24.660 ensure that in the future when there's wildfire rate wildfires raging specifically near buildings

00:10:30.540 that contractors will be allowed in to help you know there's a lot of changes we'd like to see

00:10:36.420 with uh with parks canada and how they deal with wildfire you know when it comes to municipalities

00:10:40.960 we passed bill 21 in the legislature here this this past spring which allows us to be more involved

00:10:46.460 in fires when they're in a municipality than we were previously allowed to and we would like to

00:10:51.400 see something similar to that for for jasper and bamf and the national parks uh we'd like to be

00:10:56.840 able to to be involved again we we have the expertise we have the equipment we have the contractors and

00:11:01.940 things like that that uh that can really uh do a great job in battling these fires and and when you

00:11:07.800 know when you have these uh major fires like this the more expertise you have on the ground the better

00:11:11.860 and uh and i think it'd be advantageous to make sure that we we were able to be involved

00:11:16.820 like we can at the municipal level in alberta sure you know that sort of brings me to something else

00:11:21.760 i wanted to raise is after the wildfires happened i know a number of people especially on the

00:11:25.520 conservative side said you know this was sort of an abysmal job from parks canada let's give this

00:11:30.020 responsibility back to alberta back to alberta wildfire let's have a provincial homegrown response

00:11:36.260 to it and you've said now that the alberta government has produced changes so are you going to be

00:11:41.040 guaranteed now moving forward that if there is a fire in a federally regulated park that alberta

00:11:47.200 wildfires is going to be allowed in or are those still changes that you're ironing out with parks

00:11:51.060 canada the request has been made and we'll we'll see where that request goes um we've sent a letter

00:11:57.060 to minister gibault asking to to have that same sort of uh arrangement that we do have with

00:12:02.300 municipalities in alberta so we ask for that and we want to be more involved in uh in uh the fire

00:12:07.140 prevention and mitigation efforts that uh that parks canada has or hasn't uh undergone over the

00:12:13.100 past several years uh when we look at our you know we have the municipal uh community fire guard

00:12:18.660 program that we announced last fall that's being utilized right now and and to help protect

00:12:23.420 communities uh we have fire smart and we know uh some of the national parks have been involved in

00:12:28.460 some of our fire smart activities but when we look at what we've done with our forests in alberta when it

00:12:33.400 come to pine beetle infestations and things like that we we are aggressive in fighting the pine

00:12:37.880 beetle but we're also aggressive in taking out those dead trees and taking out the trees that

00:12:41.520 were in danger of being infested by a pine beetle and that's uh that's made a huge difference as far

00:12:46.460 as the fuel load in uh in the rest of alberta versus the fuel load of uh in the national parks

00:12:51.880 Todd just my last question for you here when we talk about sort of this uh breakdown in parks canada

00:12:59.380 and their response to the contractors arriving you know we've talked a little bit about how maybe it's

00:13:03.200 not that surprising given how the federal government seems to be so heavily regulated in every avenue

00:13:09.240 and when something new happens even if it's sort of a common sense approach uh they just don't pick

00:13:14.700 up on that and because they don't have a process to deal with it they they sort of just rejected as

00:13:18.780 they did with these contractors i think for some people watching there's such a level of fatigue

00:13:23.840 with specifically this federal government and sort of the constant corruption scandals that we're seeing

00:13:28.840 and i can't help but think that some people watching this are going to feel like these

00:13:31.760 contractors being turned away was maybe not just a government process breaking down but perhaps

00:13:36.540 something more untoward happening what would your response to to those albertans and those canadians

00:13:42.440 be well i think when we we look at the the federal government is you know they want to have control

00:13:47.600 over everything they possibly can and we know that they don't have the expertise and they don't have

00:13:52.280 the on-the-ground knowledge that we have as albertans and i think other provinces probably feel the same

00:13:56.360 way and uh so it's it's frustrating to see this uh this kind of control and these kind of uh uh you

00:14:02.620 know decisions being made uh basically in ottawa when it that it directly affects albertans right here

00:14:07.440 in alberta and uh again i think there's a there's a strong desire and justifiably to see that change

00:14:13.540 and and to see if we can get back to more local decision decision making minister thank you so much

00:14:19.480 for your time today thank you i appreciate it too and uh yeah no it's lots of good discussion lots of

00:14:26.840 things need to be done moving forward on this right well we'll talk to you soon have a good one

00:14:30.960 you

00:14:36.260 you

00:14:38.260 you

00:14:40.360 you

Juno News - October 14, 2024

Alberta Parks minister explains what went wrong in Jasper

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