Juno News - Albertans want equalization gone. What's next？

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.

00:00:12.820 Coming up, Albertans have voted in favour of ending equalisation,

00:00:16.740 but is that enough to quell the rising tide of independence?

00:00:20.800 Also, climate hypocrisy abound at COP26 and some other stories along the way.

00:00:25.780 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.

00:00:33.300 Hello and welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.

00:00:36.860 It is Thursday, October 28th, 2021.

00:00:40.160 Great to have you tuned in to the Andrew Lawton Show here on True North.

00:00:44.580 I mentioned on the weekend that I had been in Calgary speaking at the Economic Association of Alberta's Freedom Talk Conference.

00:00:52.020 The theme of the conference was healthcare.

00:00:54.360 But in general, there was a lot of frustration about the state of affairs in the West.

00:00:59.780 Now, just to put this in context, we didn't have the results from the equalisation referendum at the time that we were all meeting.

00:01:06.720 And a lot of folks there very frustrated with the status quo.

00:01:09.960 A lot of people very frustrated with Jason Kenney's leadership

00:01:13.260 and eyeing ways in which Alberta can assert itself and assert its independence to get a better deal.

00:01:19.800 And one of the interesting things that came up is a conversation that I had that we'll share very shortly with Paul Hinman,

00:01:26.280 who's the leader of the Wild Rose Independence Party.

00:01:28.840 But the Wild Rose Independence Party, which has a lot of people that are growing its support base,

00:01:35.320 was originally a party talking about a way to just get, you know, a better deal for Albertans.

00:01:40.300 And now they're moving more and more towards this idea of being an outright separatist party.

00:01:46.280 And I want to talk a little bit about that evolution because I think that's a very important one,

00:01:50.600 that people are getting that angry.

00:01:52.340 But first, I do want to take a look at the results of the referendum.

00:01:55.480 So when all the votes are counted from across the province,

00:01:58.560 61.7% of Albertans who voted said they were in favour of removing equalisation from the constitution.

00:02:06.400 The message that Jason Kenney says can be taken away from this is that a clear majority of Albertans

00:02:10.980 have sent a powerful democratic message.

00:02:13.340 They want a fair deal in the federation.

00:02:15.520 The results have given Alberta's government a powerful mandate to secure changes to equalisation

00:02:20.720 and other federal transfers that have treated Albertans unfairly for so long.

00:02:25.880 He says Ottawa has to respect Alberta and the huge role the province plays in Canada's economic prosperity.

00:02:32.360 Now, the interesting thing about that is that for a long time now,

00:02:36.340 Jason Kenney has had the ability to put all of the frustrations that people have

00:02:40.760 with Alberta's place in Canada towards this referendum.

00:02:44.780 And say, we're going to have the referendum.

00:02:46.380 You're going to be able to have your say there.

00:02:47.800 I think I made the point last week or two weeks ago on our live show about this

00:02:52.520 that we are actually in a point now.

00:02:56.000 We are actually in a point now in which there's nowhere for Jason Kenney to hide.

00:03:00.740 The referendum's done.

00:03:01.980 Now everyone's looking at him and they're going to be saying,

00:03:04.540 OK, you said this was a way that we could flex a little bit,

00:03:08.040 go to the government, demand a deal.

00:03:09.920 That is now on you.

00:03:12.620 And there still is the looming question of what happens if Justin Trudeau doesn't want to play ball.

00:03:18.600 And I have to go back to what a lot of the pro-referendum equalization people have been saying here,

00:03:24.840 the people that are supporting the Yes campaign, which ultimately was successful.

00:03:29.500 They've put a lot of stock into the Supreme Court's review,

00:03:32.840 its reference case, they call it, of the Quebec secession referendum,

00:03:36.280 which found that if in a democratic way on a clear question,

00:03:40.100 when people in a province vote on something that is similar to secession or independence,

00:03:45.580 then the federal government has a duty to negotiate,

00:03:49.300 that they have to say, all right, clearly there's a real problem here.

00:03:53.320 But even if you accept that interpretation,

00:03:56.840 the government, the federal government doesn't have to give up anything in that negotiation.

00:04:00.620 The federal government has to sit down ostensibly in good faith.

00:04:03.600 But there's a lot of dispute about whether the government actually has to sit down.

00:04:08.620 You can't compel action in that way.

00:04:10.560 Even if Alberta were to take this all the way to the Supreme Court,

00:04:13.460 the Supreme Court can't say,

00:04:14.680 now, Justin Trudeau, you have to sit down in a room with Jason Kenney.

00:04:17.820 And even if he did,

00:04:19.000 there's no guarantee that Trudeau would do anything about it.

00:04:22.500 So I asked Jason Kenney about this earlier in the week.

00:04:25.400 What do you do if you can't extract from the federal government,

00:04:28.400 the concessions or even the process that you want?

00:04:31.200 And this is what he said.

00:04:33.100 Well, you know, first of all, we've just released this result today.

00:04:37.200 The Albertans voted on this last week.

00:04:40.000 And so the legislature now will debate a motion,

00:04:44.280 effectively to ratify the democratic choice of Albertans.

00:04:48.180 Then we'll forward that to the prime minister.

00:04:51.040 And of course, I'll also formally make my fellow premiers aware

00:04:54.760 of the referendum result and its implications.

00:04:59.080 We will make the strongest case we possibly can for reform

00:05:05.820 and for fairness for Albertan and the federation

00:05:07.560 with this powerful democratic endorsement.

00:05:10.600 And we will, at the same time,

00:05:13.760 continue to pursue other aspects of our fair deal agenda,

00:05:17.920 including building a stronger and more resilient province,

00:05:22.360 exercising more powers under the constitution.

00:05:24.960 Later this week, we'll be, for example, releasing the initial study

00:05:31.200 conducted by the Department of Justice and Solicitor General

00:05:34.500 on the cost, benefits, and potential advantages

00:05:38.640 of an Alberta provincial police force.

00:05:41.700 We continue at our Treasury Board and Finance Ministry

00:05:44.800 carefully to study the potential benefits of an Alberta pension plan,

00:05:50.580 which I think would be enormous given the big demographic advantage,

00:05:56.140 the age advantage of Alberta for the past 40 or 50 years.

00:06:00.740 We have continued, we just appointed an Alberta chief firearms officer

00:06:05.400 last month to have more common sense oversight

00:06:09.500 in the application of federal firearms legislation.

00:06:12.120 We have created the Alberta parole board to have Albertans 0.99

00:06:17.560 making common sense decisions over parole applications

00:06:21.280 for provincial inmates.

00:06:24.160 And of course, we continue to pursue the broader fair deal agenda

00:06:28.900 while at the same time expecting the government of Canada

00:06:35.320 to take this referendum result very seriously.

00:06:37.900 I mean, look, he's saying all the right things,

00:06:39.900 but at the end of the day, you can't force it.

00:06:42.440 You can't force the federal government to do it.

00:06:44.960 And what I was trying to get at there,

00:06:46.800 and I don't really think he addressed this in the response,

00:06:49.000 is what are you prepared to do next?

00:06:51.840 Where is your next step?

00:06:54.600 And this is where we get to the independence threat.

00:06:57.900 And this is something, look, I am a Canadian.

00:07:00.360 I love Canada.

00:07:01.360 I love Alberta as well.

00:07:03.060 I am not someone seeking to break up the country.

00:07:05.640 What I want is a country in which provinces like Alberta

00:07:08.600 to have the ability to do what they want to do

00:07:10.500 without needing to feel like that has to take place outside of Canada.

00:07:14.800 But at the same time, I'm very sympathetic to the frustrations

00:07:17.920 that Albertans have,

00:07:18.880 and that's why I've been covering them so extensively on the show.

00:07:22.580 And I sat down with Paul Hinman, as I mentioned earlier,

00:07:25.220 the leader of the Wild Rose Independence Party,

00:07:27.360 which is a new party.

00:07:28.780 This is going to be its first election,

00:07:30.320 although clearly a lot of the people were involved

00:07:32.740 in the previous Wild Rose Alliance,

00:07:34.880 and then the Wild Rose Party,

00:07:36.600 which Paul Hinman was the leader of for a time.

00:07:39.840 And Paul's position is basically that

00:07:42.500 if you are not prepared to leave,

00:07:45.140 the federal government has no incentive to give you anything.

00:07:50.240 And this is, I fear, going to be part of the discussion and dilemma now.

00:07:53.800 But here's my interview in Calgary with Paul Hinman.

00:07:57.080 Last, or a couple of weeks ago,

00:07:59.280 the Maverick Party very much underperformed

00:08:02.680 what I think a lot of people who've been talking about

00:08:05.200 Western independence were expecting and perhaps hoping for.

00:08:08.780 And I know that a lot of people I've spoken to,

00:08:10.680 including yourself just off air,

00:08:12.780 have said that that is not an accurate reflection

00:08:15.080 of where Albertans' frustration is with the status quo right now.

00:08:18.320 So let me ask you, Paul,

00:08:19.680 how do you reconcile, on one hand,

00:08:21.840 this party that was trying to speak to Albertans

00:08:24.080 that are dissatisfied with, you know, the Canadian Federation,

00:08:27.320 and that getting 2.3% in the ridings of which it ran candidates

00:08:32.220 with the challenges now

00:08:34.280 and your hope for a future for the Wild Rose Independence Party?

00:08:37.320 Well, first of all,

00:08:38.760 becoming independent is a provincial matter, not a federal one.

00:08:42.760 And the Maverick Party and Jay Hill very much talked about

00:08:45.700 and emphasized that we're going to go down and represent you.

00:08:50.260 Albertans realized that even when we sent the Reform Party

00:08:53.040 and if we have 100% representation speaking out for Alberta,

00:08:57.020 we're still a minority, we're 10%,

00:08:59.420 and they're not going to change their treatment.

00:09:01.360 And so all of the solutions that they had

00:09:03.960 and what they said they were going to do,

00:09:05.840 I think Albertans rationally looked at that

00:09:07.820 and says, well, that doesn't fix anything.

00:09:10.580 I mean, okay, someone's pointing up and says,

00:09:12.820 quit being a bully,

00:09:14.200 but they can't stop them from being a bully.

00:09:16.960 I think there's probably more of an accurate reflection

00:09:19.700 of the frustration in the referendum results on equalization,

00:09:22.860 we had probably when all was said and done,

00:09:25.060 about 60% of Albertans saying

00:09:26.720 that they want equalization pulled out

00:09:28.400 of the Canadian Constitution.

00:09:30.440 And despite, I have to put the obligatory disclaimer,

00:09:32.840 that that's not a binding resolution,

00:09:35.640 it doesn't amend the Constitution,

00:09:37.700 Alberta can't unilaterally do that, 1.00

00:09:39.480 but 60% saying they don't think Alberta

00:09:41.900 should have to be on the hook

00:09:42.860 for the fiscal record in other provinces,

00:09:45.880 in the have-not provinces.

00:09:47.360 Is 60%, is that your cap, basically?

00:09:53.380 I do not believe so, Andrew,

00:09:55.660 that the sky's the limit, 100%.

00:09:58.160 You'll never get that.

00:09:59.620 But the fact of the matter is,

00:10:01.380 is that equalization is very complex.

00:10:04.180 People don't understand it.

00:10:05.980 But what they do understand

00:10:07.680 is the toxic relationship

00:10:10.200 that Alberta has with Ottawa.

00:10:12.060 They do understand that we're footing the bill.

00:10:14.680 They do understand

00:10:15.920 that there's a divide-and-conquer attitude

00:10:18.020 with the government

00:10:19.660 on how to buy votes in the East

00:10:22.400 and how to demonize our lifestyle,

00:10:26.520 our industry, what we do here.

00:10:29.280 And that's just wrong.

00:10:30.740 And as that continues,

00:10:31.800 which we know with the just transition

00:10:33.620 and other things,

00:10:34.820 that Albertans are being pushed

00:10:36.320 to the brink of saying no.

00:10:38.580 And so I think 60% is the bottom,

00:10:41.540 and then it's just to grow up from there.

00:10:44.440 One of the things that I think works for

00:10:46.780 and against the UCP government right now

00:10:48.700 is that on one hand,

00:10:49.980 they've been really directing

00:10:51.500 all of these concerns

00:10:52.540 and all of the Western alienation

00:10:54.220 towards that equalization referendum.

00:10:56.180 They've been saying that's the outlet.

00:10:57.600 Now that that's happened,

00:10:58.660 there's really nowhere

00:10:59.240 for the government to hide.

00:11:00.160 They have to start proving

00:11:01.020 that they're advancing

00:11:01.700 for a better deal with Ottawa

00:11:02.900 and wanting to, I think, show results,

00:11:05.580 or that'll be expected of them.

00:11:07.160 But the other side of this

00:11:08.520 is that they now have this process

00:11:10.900 that they say they're locked into,

00:11:12.280 that the federal government's

00:11:13.260 going to have to negotiate with them.

00:11:14.680 And why is your view

00:11:16.080 that that process,

00:11:17.340 that the UCP government,

00:11:18.500 which allowed for that referendum,

00:11:20.260 is not enough

00:11:20.880 and that your party needs to be the one

00:11:22.640 to take this step forward?

00:11:23.840 Well, first of all,

00:11:24.540 Jason's always said that,

00:11:25.800 you know,

00:11:26.200 that this isn't really about equalization.

00:11:28.640 We just want a fair deal.

00:11:30.260 I mean, Preston Manning,

00:11:31.740 you know, the West wants in.

00:11:33.160 Well, why do we want to be

00:11:35.300 in a bad, toxic relationship?

00:11:37.140 We need to get out.

00:11:38.360 And so, Jason, to me,

00:11:41.160 this has been a great smoke and mirrors,

00:11:44.320 you know, to be intellectually,

00:11:46.820 you know, leading the people

00:11:48.120 that, oh, I'm going to do these things.

00:11:50.280 But people are realizing

00:11:51.620 that he's not interested in a fair deal.

00:11:54.000 I think he's interested,

00:11:55.320 you know, in a federal career.

00:11:57.500 I think he's interested,

00:11:58.560 you know, in other things

00:12:00.840 outside of Alberta

00:12:01.880 because when it comes

00:12:02.620 to standing up for us,

00:12:03.500 we've realized that he's betrayed us.

00:12:05.220 He's betrayed us on jobs.

00:12:06.540 He's betrayed us on pipelines.

00:12:07.900 He's betrayed us on standing up to Ottawa.

00:12:10.340 And he's not showing that passion

00:12:14.480 and that fight for Alberta

00:12:15.580 and always wanting to compromise

00:12:16.780 and saying, oh, we need to be

00:12:17.960 the nice person on the block.

00:12:19.760 No, we need to stand up

00:12:20.860 and protect Alberta's industries

00:12:22.300 and Alberta workers

00:12:23.280 and Alberta families.

00:12:24.760 And he's not doing that.

00:12:25.880 And so I think that there's

00:12:27.980 a much bigger picture here.

00:12:29.760 Equalization was just the smoke and mirrors,

00:12:32.360 the distraction for behind-the-scenes activities,

00:12:35.060 which has been against us.

00:12:36.700 When you talk about

00:12:38.220 the Alberta relationship with Canada

00:12:39.920 as being a toxic relationship,

00:12:42.340 and I've also heard you say sinking ship,

00:12:44.460 the metaphors have been very vivid on that.

00:12:46.740 Are you talking about secession?

00:12:48.780 Is that the only way to fix

00:12:50.800 that imbalance in power

00:12:52.320 in that relationship?

00:12:53.140 Absolutely.

00:12:54.140 I mean, it'll be for Albertans to decide,

00:12:56.440 but we need to take full control

00:12:58.200 of the decision-making

00:12:59.180 in our future and our pathway forward

00:13:01.040 because everything that we want to do,

00:13:03.260 pretty much,

00:13:03.820 Ottawa is against.

00:13:04.760 They're against our oil and gas industry.

00:13:06.600 They're against agriculture.

00:13:08.420 I mean, they've actually said that

00:13:09.440 of all the dumb things

00:13:11.620 that our prime minister has said,

00:13:13.280 to say that he wants to reduce

00:13:14.640 fertilizer input by 30%,

00:13:16.860 like this really is,

00:13:19.280 it goes against humanity.

00:13:21.440 This is like,

00:13:22.320 we want people to starve around the world.

00:13:24.180 We don't want to be able

00:13:25.080 to produce the energy and the food

00:13:26.880 that gives a quality of life to people.

00:13:29.080 It's mind-numbing to me.

00:13:32.140 But why does that have to be secession

00:13:33.620 and not an Alberta replication

00:13:35.540 of what Quebec has done

00:13:37.040 to assert its own sovereignty

00:13:38.420 within Canada?

00:13:39.940 Good question.

00:13:40.820 Quebec gets $13 billion a year.

00:13:42.680 We put out $20 billion a year.

00:13:44.680 We've got a partner

00:13:45.660 who's addicted, drunk,

00:13:48.120 and spending our money,

00:13:49.460 and we've got to cut off

00:13:50.500 the financial ties.

00:13:51.700 We cannot survive.

00:13:53.120 One thing that, you know,

00:13:54.380 when a country goes under,

00:13:56.640 everybody goes under.

00:13:58.280 Canada, to me, is a sinking ship.

00:14:00.860 I think that Trudeau

00:14:01.820 wants to bankrupt us.

00:14:02.900 He wants to have a great reset.

00:14:04.300 He's excited about it.

00:14:05.820 He's, you know, post-sovereignty

00:14:07.720 and exciting things

00:14:08.860 on rebuilding back better

00:14:10.780 and all of that other propaganda

00:14:12.520 that they continue to put out there.

00:14:14.480 The only way for Alberta to survive

00:14:16.340 is to be our own sovereign nation.

00:14:19.440 All things aside,

00:14:20.520 if we are exercising our full autonomy,

00:14:22.640 when Canada goes under,

00:14:24.000 we can't all of a sudden say

00:14:25.260 that we're not part of that.

00:14:27.060 We are.

00:14:27.840 And so this is like a business

00:14:29.520 or a marriage.

00:14:30.640 When one of the partners

00:14:31.500 is going to go bankrupt

00:14:32.740 or carry on

00:14:33.540 and lose everything that we have,

00:14:35.760 you can't be associated

00:14:36.820 with them anymore.

00:14:38.320 And so I think our future,

00:14:39.920 our sovereignty,

00:14:41.100 that's it.

00:14:43.860 That's the be-all, end-all.

00:14:45.340 If we're part of Canada,

00:14:46.560 we sync with Canada.

00:14:48.920 To play the devil's advocate here,

00:14:50.740 if you're advancing this

00:14:52.600 through the political system

00:14:53.740 that has caused all these problems,

00:14:55.480 how are you going to get

00:14:56.380 the result you need

00:14:57.340 and not have to resort

00:14:58.640 to revolution?

00:15:00.780 Well, that's the beauty

00:15:01.700 of it right now.

00:15:02.440 We're still in a peaceful democracy

00:15:03.940 and people are going to be able to vote.

00:15:05.900 Are you going to vote for control

00:15:07.280 and Ottawa being in charge

00:15:09.360 of our decision?

00:15:10.160 Or do you want to vote

00:15:10.840 for the Wild Wilds Independence Party,

00:15:12.440 which is going to exercise

00:15:13.480 our full autonomy,

00:15:14.920 tell Ottawa that,

00:15:15.780 you know,

00:15:16.020 no, I'm sorry,

00:15:16.920 you're off base on these areas.

00:15:18.320 We're going to protect

00:15:19.580 Alberta industries,

00:15:20.780 protect Alberta families

00:15:21.960 and religion

00:15:22.720 and peaceful assembly,

00:15:24.360 all of those things

00:15:25.100 that are being stripped away.

00:15:26.940 And so this is about good government.

00:15:28.800 It's way more than just

00:15:30.640 the equalization,

00:15:31.860 which some people talk,

00:15:33.200 or the fair deals.

00:15:34.020 This is about determining our future.

00:15:36.080 Everything from immigration

00:15:37.260 to taxation

00:15:38.080 to the size and role

00:15:40.080 and scope of government.

00:15:41.480 Government's out of control.

00:15:42.700 It's destroying our society.

00:15:45.020 And we need to go back to,

00:15:46.120 again, the best government

00:15:47.380 is always the local government.

00:15:49.400 And we need to go back to that

00:15:50.560 and realize the taxes

00:15:51.480 are collected locally.

00:15:52.580 They meet the local needs.

00:15:54.040 Then they go on to the next level.

00:15:55.800 We won't be any better off

00:15:57.060 as a sovereign Alberta

00:15:58.080 if we're sending all of our money

00:15:59.280 to Edmonton

00:16:00.040 like we've sent it all to Ottawa.

00:16:02.580 If you have centralized government

00:16:04.140 and we have to wait

00:16:05.000 for government programs,

00:16:06.480 I mean, the frustration

00:16:07.360 when I talk to municipalities

00:16:08.840 and small towns and villages

00:16:10.280 is that they're always begging government,

00:16:12.620 we need this or we need that.

00:16:14.080 I remember, you know,

00:16:15.080 going up north

00:16:15.740 and they were desperate

00:16:16.460 for pothole repairs.

00:16:18.020 Three years pleading

00:16:19.260 for the provincial government.

00:16:20.500 We need these tens

00:16:21.580 of millions of dollars.

00:16:22.980 Nope, nope, nope.

00:16:23.660 We don't have a grant.

00:16:24.440 We don't have a grant program.

00:16:25.660 All of a sudden,

00:16:26.420 they gave it three years later.

00:16:28.160 They'd gone into debt,

00:16:29.380 the biggest, you know,

00:16:30.220 municipal debt

00:16:30.820 that they were allowed.

00:16:32.000 And then the government

00:16:32.980 comes out with a new grant

00:16:34.200 where they'd sent the money

00:16:35.820 off in taxation.

00:16:37.220 And then it says,

00:16:37.960 oh, no, you don't get refunded on that.

00:16:39.720 This is a new grant going forward.

00:16:41.700 And all of those control factors

00:16:43.360 of centralized government

00:16:44.540 is hurting Alberta.

00:16:46.260 And we've got to go back

00:16:47.320 to a new government

00:16:48.100 that's effective, efficient,

00:16:49.400 and focused on the people

00:16:50.920 and meeting the people's needs

00:16:52.240 instead of government

00:16:53.400 making the taxation

00:16:54.560 meet their needs.

00:16:55.560 And the growth

00:16:56.180 is just out of control, Andrew.

00:16:57.800 We know that dissatisfaction

00:17:00.180 from within and without

00:17:01.160 the conservative base

00:17:02.540 is very significant

00:17:04.220 with the leadership of the party,

00:17:05.500 with Jason Kenney

00:17:06.680 on questions of lockdown

00:17:08.100 and the vaccine passport

00:17:09.340 and all of these other things.

00:17:11.620 There's a huge swath of voters

00:17:13.520 that would vote 0.82

00:17:14.840 for a conservative alternative

00:17:16.500 to Jason Kenney

00:17:17.480 that might not be separatists.

00:17:20.520 Are you missing out

00:17:21.480 on a huge chunk of the population

00:17:22.860 that could actually get you elected?

00:17:23.980 That's an excellent question.

00:17:25.660 And I'd actually say

00:17:26.440 if you're a loyalist

00:17:28.900 or a federalist,

00:17:29.840 the best thing you can do

00:17:31.280 to save this country

00:17:32.260 is to vote

00:17:32.800 and put in a Wild Rose government

00:17:34.260 because that will actually

00:17:35.860 bring Ottawa to the table

00:17:37.240 if they're going to come

00:17:37.980 to the table.

00:17:38.960 And so if you want to save Canada,

00:17:41.280 then vote Wild Rose Independence Party

00:17:43.060 because we're going to be

00:17:44.040 the responsible ones

00:17:44.880 on the block

00:17:45.440 and say this is what

00:17:46.440 you need to do.

00:17:47.360 We need to fix

00:17:48.260 our constitution.

00:17:49.440 We can't be so-called

00:17:50.720 demonstrably justified

00:17:52.100 and yet then just take

00:17:53.540 the whim of the prime minister

00:17:54.820 or a health official

00:17:56.360 and go there.

00:17:57.880 We will stand up

00:17:59.160 and represent

00:17:59.740 the independent person,

00:18:01.780 their rights to life,

00:18:02.940 liberty, property,

00:18:03.860 pursuit of happiness.

00:18:05.300 And again,

00:18:06.020 if Canada wants to keep Alberta,

00:18:08.740 they can meet those needs.

00:18:10.160 And again,

00:18:10.620 it won't be us

00:18:11.600 making that decision

00:18:12.500 as the Wild Rose Independence Party.

00:18:14.120 That'll be a referendum

00:18:15.120 by the people.

00:18:16.400 And again,

00:18:16.900 if in fact,

00:18:17.720 when we're government

00:18:18.400 and here's the line in the sand,

00:18:20.820 this is what you need to do.

00:18:21.760 We're exercising our full autonomy

00:18:23.220 and Ottawa allows that,

00:18:25.120 then why would Albertans

00:18:26.300 want to vote

00:18:27.800 and say I'm going to separate?

00:18:28.860 So they don't need to worry

00:18:29.860 that a vote for Alberta

00:18:31.840 Wild Rose Independence Party

00:18:33.720 is a vote for separation.

00:18:35.700 It's a vote to put

00:18:36.920 and exercise our full autonomy

00:18:38.480 and then show Albertans

00:18:40.120 a confidence

00:18:40.700 how great it will be

00:18:41.860 to be our own nation.

00:18:43.200 But then Albertans

00:18:44.080 will ultimately get to decide that.

00:18:45.840 And if Canada comes to the table

00:18:47.080 and says,

00:18:47.400 yeah,

00:18:47.720 we realize the constitution

00:18:48.920 is divisive,

00:18:49.820 we realize that we've been abusive,

00:18:51.160 that we've overtaxed you

00:18:52.560 or overregulating you,

00:18:54.200 your health care

00:18:54.780 is your business,

00:18:55.600 your environment

00:18:56.120 is your business,

00:18:57.200 your resources

00:18:57.840 or your business

00:18:58.560 will allow you

00:18:59.140 to do all those things,

00:19:00.560 then like I say,

00:19:01.400 if Albertans want that,

00:19:02.880 vote Wild Rose Independence Party.

00:19:04.500 But it sounds like

00:19:05.300 you're trying to have

00:19:05.760 the best of both worlds here

00:19:06.800 because a few moments ago

00:19:07.720 you were talking about

00:19:08.540 secession as being the only way

00:19:10.040 for Alberta to do that. 0.53

00:19:11.400 Now you're talking about it

00:19:12.340 as a negotiating position

00:19:13.640 with Canada.

00:19:13.980 No, no, excellent point

00:19:16.000 and I've misled you

00:19:17.180 if that's what I did

00:19:17.980 is that what I'm saying

00:19:18.900 if you believe that Canada

00:19:20.560 is going to negotiate

00:19:22.140 and what would I say,

00:19:25.280 be a fair deal with Alberta,

00:19:26.940 the only way that

00:19:28.020 that's even possible,

00:19:29.200 which I don't think is possible,

00:19:30.520 is to vote for the Wild Rose.

00:19:31.860 You're not going to get

00:19:32.380 anything with Jason.

00:19:33.440 You're not going to get

00:19:33.920 anything with Rachel Notley.

00:19:35.540 If they think that bargaining

00:19:37.960 and having that leverage

00:19:39.280 is going to get that,

00:19:40.080 then vote for the Wild Rose. 0.95

00:19:41.180 That's their hope

00:19:42.940 but the bottom line for me

00:19:44.480 is that Justin Trudeau

00:19:46.680 is bankrupting our country

00:19:48.200 morally, financially,

00:19:50.760 every way.

00:19:52.100 He's bankrupting it

00:19:53.200 and we need to get off

00:19:54.260 and my work will be

00:19:55.580 to take the steps

00:19:58.080 to exercise our full autonomy,

00:20:00.660 give Albertans the confidence

00:20:01.820 that we will be better off

00:20:03.060 on our own

00:20:03.540 and then allow them to vote.

00:20:05.920 So I'm just saying

00:20:06.740 for those who think

00:20:07.680 we need to say

00:20:08.380 a sovereign nation

00:20:09.780 and not divide,

00:20:11.180 vote for the Wild Rose

00:20:12.220 because that's the only way

00:20:14.000 Ottawa will come to the table

00:20:15.380 but I will still be advocating

00:20:17.020 very strongly

00:20:17.960 we need to get out of here.

00:20:19.800 This ship's on fire,

00:20:21.000 it's taking on water

00:20:22.020 and we're all going to

00:20:23.120 go down with it.

00:20:24.060 So there's no question

00:20:25.220 we need to get out

00:20:26.020 but we've got to give

00:20:27.140 Albertans that confidence

00:20:28.220 to vote to leave.

00:20:30.260 Paul Hinman, thank you.

00:20:31.280 Thank you, Andrew.

00:20:32.120 It's always a pleasure

00:20:32.760 having you out here.

00:20:33.720 Thanks a lot.

00:20:35.000 Now let me say again,

00:20:36.600 I am not an Alberta separatist.

00:20:38.760 As a Canadian who leans right,

00:20:40.540 I would actually be quite devastated

00:20:42.260 to see Alberta leave the country

00:20:43.640 because I think they are

00:20:44.460 an important part

00:20:45.240 of the fabric of this country

00:20:46.960 but I also don't think

00:20:48.160 it is for anyone

00:20:48.920 outside of Alberta

00:20:49.900 to tell Albertans

00:20:50.840 how they're supposed to

00:20:51.900 take out their frustrations

00:20:53.380 with Canada

00:20:54.060 which are very legitimate

00:20:55.320 and right now

00:20:56.580 I'd say their frustrations

00:20:57.560 with Alberta as well

00:20:58.620 with their own

00:20:59.180 provincial government there.

00:21:01.180 And what I was seeing

00:21:02.700 in that was

00:21:03.780 as I noted to Paul

00:21:04.900 a very significant escalation

00:21:07.680 from even when I sat down

00:21:08.760 with him what was it

00:21:09.440 six months ago

00:21:10.260 and we spoke

00:21:11.480 and in that time

00:21:12.320 he was saying

00:21:12.920 that it's not necessarily

00:21:14.040 a separatist party

00:21:15.420 he said they're a separatist in it

00:21:16.780 he knows that's a step

00:21:18.180 if Alberta can't get a deal 1.00

00:21:19.460 but the last six months

00:21:21.540 the interceding six months

00:21:22.780 between that interview

00:21:23.720 and this one

00:21:24.380 have seemed to be

00:21:25.580 in Paul's view

00:21:26.420 sufficiently demoralizing

00:21:28.380 I guess

00:21:28.820 if I can put a word

00:21:29.580 in his mouth

00:21:30.080 that he doesn't think

00:21:31.300 there's a future

00:21:31.940 for Alberta in Canada

00:21:33.960 that the only way forward

00:21:36.100 the only way to

00:21:36.940 assert the things

00:21:38.320 that Alberta wants 0.99

00:21:39.160 is to do so

00:21:40.000 outside of confederation

00:21:41.900 and for all that

00:21:43.380 Justin Trudeau likes to talk

00:21:44.660 about being the great unifier

00:21:46.080 and connecting the country

00:21:47.560 and having this great

00:21:48.580 big mandate

00:21:49.240 when you've got

00:21:50.280 one of the most

00:21:51.000 the most prosperous province

00:21:52.460 in the country

00:21:53.200 that has a growing movement

00:21:55.100 of people who want

00:21:55.920 to leave the country

00:21:56.900 you do not get to claim credit

00:21:59.140 for keeping the country together

00:22:00.560 and even if you don't agree

00:22:02.920 with Alberta separatists

00:22:04.080 or Alberta sovereigntists

00:22:05.220 you can look at them

00:22:06.280 and say that

00:22:06.720 they are a symptom

00:22:07.600 of a problem

00:22:09.060 that the federal government

00:22:10.280 and the rest of Canada

00:22:11.500 has allowed to get

00:22:12.920 as bad as it has

00:22:14.080 they are reacting

00:22:16.520 to a problem

00:22:17.520 they are not creating

00:22:18.440 a problem

00:22:18.980 and that's why

00:22:20.780 I have a lot more sympathy

00:22:21.900 for this movement

00:22:22.860 even if I don't want

00:22:24.680 what they want right now

00:22:25.840 I have a lot more sympathy

00:22:26.700 for the movement

00:22:27.300 because I'm painfully aware

00:22:29.080 of how we got there

00:22:30.140 the disagreement

00:22:31.780 is not on whether

00:22:32.900 they've been shafted

00:22:33.820 the disagreement

00:22:34.400 is whether

00:22:35.060 there can be

00:22:35.860 a resolution

00:22:36.520 from a strong

00:22:37.760 provincial government

00:22:38.500 in Alberta

00:22:38.960 and a strong federal government

00:22:40.680 that wants to listen

00:22:41.440 to Alberta

00:22:41.940 that's the real question here

00:22:43.220 and certainly

00:22:44.200 folks may have

00:22:45.060 very strong opinions

00:22:45.820 on that

00:22:46.260 as to whether

00:22:46.680 we can right this ship

00:22:47.880 or plug the hole

00:22:49.260 in the ship

00:22:49.680 I was trying to remember

00:22:50.680 all the metaphors

00:22:51.440 that I was getting

00:22:52.740 from Paul there

00:22:53.360 but that's the whole point

00:22:55.060 and it is interesting

00:22:56.280 because one of the challenges

00:22:57.500 and Maxime Bernier

00:22:58.600 on my show

00:22:59.160 made this comment

00:23:00.180 about the Maverick Party

00:23:01.620 which was running

00:23:02.320 for the Alberta

00:23:03.400 independence vote

00:23:04.320 in the last federal election

00:23:05.540 really didn't have answers

00:23:07.520 to a lot of the key questions

00:23:09.400 Bernier said

00:23:10.180 what the Maverick Party

00:23:11.140 was doing

00:23:11.860 was really just saying

00:23:13.300 yeah we want to have

00:23:14.280 a triple E Senate

00:23:15.080 and once we do that

00:23:16.960 then we can talk

00:23:17.600 about separation

00:23:18.340 if it still doesn't work

00:23:19.540 but they weren't really

00:23:20.240 addressing a lot

00:23:21.100 of the key challenges

00:23:22.040 that Albertans

00:23:23.560 were facing

00:23:24.580 and this is why

00:23:25.920 I asked Paul about this

00:23:27.020 what about someone

00:23:27.620 who again

00:23:28.040 wants a more conservative

00:23:29.220 government

00:23:29.700 they want a stronger

00:23:30.480 government

00:23:30.940 but they aren't

00:23:31.960 a separatist

00:23:32.600 and I don't entirely

00:23:34.260 buy his answer there

00:23:35.460 that well they should

00:23:36.040 vote for us anyway

00:23:36.840 and this is why

00:23:38.300 I push back on that

00:23:39.520 because ultimately

00:23:41.640 there is an opening

00:23:42.600 I think for someone

00:23:43.360 to outflank

00:23:44.200 Jason Kenney right now

00:23:45.340 for someone to outflank

00:23:46.300 the UCP

00:23:47.040 and say yeah

00:23:47.980 we're going to be

00:23:48.420 a pro-civil liberties party

00:23:49.660 we're going to be

00:23:50.280 a pro-democracy party

00:23:51.900 we're going to do

00:23:52.380 all of these things

00:23:53.100 and more

00:23:53.760 and there are a lot

00:23:55.180 of people in that boat

00:23:55.960 that want to push

00:23:57.360 Alberta to the point

00:23:58.540 of replicating

00:23:59.760 that Quebec experience

00:24:01.400 the sovereign

00:24:03.640 but not separate

00:24:04.940 idea

00:24:05.600 that don't want

00:24:07.280 to go that

00:24:07.940 last mile

00:24:09.240 which is a pretty

00:24:10.100 significant mile

00:24:10.920 towards full-on

00:24:11.920 secession

00:24:12.720 and I think that's

00:24:13.560 going to be the

00:24:13.920 sticking point here

00:24:14.600 but again

00:24:15.320 if the Wildrose

00:24:16.460 Independence Party

00:24:17.160 is getting

00:24:17.600 as some polls

00:24:18.220 are suggesting

00:24:18.880 10-15%

00:24:20.400 of the vote

00:24:21.000 that's going to be

00:24:22.760 a devastating

00:24:24.080 devastating problem

00:24:25.440 for the UCP

00:24:26.260 and it may well

00:24:27.400 elect the NDP

00:24:28.320 but again

00:24:29.460 I'm one of these

00:24:29.940 people

00:24:30.180 when people talk

00:24:31.060 about vote splitting

00:24:31.900 I don't blame

00:24:33.660 the party

00:24:34.520 that wants to

00:24:35.380 carve out a little

00:24:36.120 bit of space

00:24:36.600 for itself

00:24:37.060 I blame

00:24:38.060 those who allow

00:24:39.260 these movements

00:24:40.040 to get so strong

00:24:41.100 and that's something

00:24:43.460 we'll have to talk

00:24:44.180 about in more detail

00:24:44.960 I know that

00:24:45.480 Jason Kenney

00:24:46.100 is facing a

00:24:47.180 leadership review

00:24:48.100 in April

00:24:48.860 and a lot of this

00:24:50.080 is going to depend

00:24:50.680 on how Jason Kenney

00:24:51.600 does because

00:24:52.120 if Jason Kenney

00:24:53.180 is ousted

00:24:53.640 by his own party

00:24:54.480 and replaced

00:24:54.960 by someone else

00:24:55.720 it might take

00:24:56.640 a lot of the wind

00:24:57.260 out of the sails

00:24:57.960 of the independence

00:24:58.860 movement

00:24:59.280 or the Wild Rose

00:25:00.940 Independence Party

00:25:01.680 specifically

00:25:02.280 but that's something

00:25:03.400 again I don't want

00:25:04.220 to speculate

00:25:04.680 too too much

00:25:05.460 it's just very much

00:25:06.760 a possibility

00:25:07.520 that is out there

00:25:08.480 come April

00:25:09.200 one of the other

00:25:10.300 people I spoke to

00:25:11.200 and I always enjoy

00:25:11.860 chatting with him

00:25:12.500 out west

00:25:13.000 is Danny Hozak

00:25:14.100 who's the chairman

00:25:14.840 of the Economic

00:25:15.820 Education Association

00:25:17.100 the host of this

00:25:18.220 conference

00:25:18.600 and I caught up

00:25:19.400 with him to talk

00:25:19.960 about what it was

00:25:21.080 that we were

00:25:21.500 actually discussing

00:25:22.400 because as I said

00:25:23.160 the theme was not

00:25:23.880 western independence

00:25:24.720 it was health care

00:25:26.140 but in a lot of cases

00:25:27.820 this is something

00:25:28.560 that is integrally linked

00:25:30.520 to every other aspect

00:25:32.760 of our existence

00:25:33.600 and this was part

00:25:34.700 of what I was speaking

00:25:35.440 about at the conference

00:25:36.260 which was the idea

00:25:37.120 that health care

00:25:37.860 is really used

00:25:39.360 as a trump card

00:25:40.440 on everything else

00:25:41.480 because well

00:25:42.240 you've got to look out

00:25:42.860 for hospital capacity

00:25:43.900 therefore we have to

00:25:45.160 throw down all these

00:25:45.900 restrictions

00:25:46.340 or oh well

00:25:47.320 it's a universal system

00:25:48.400 so doctors don't get

00:25:49.320 to have conscience rights

00:25:50.240 all these sorts of things

00:25:51.660 this was my conversation

00:25:52.960 with Danny Hozak

00:25:54.320 so you've been doing

00:25:55.300 these for several years

00:25:56.760 now I've had the privilege

00:25:57.620 of coming to four of them

00:25:59.020 now this one's a bit

00:26:00.520 unique though

00:26:01.040 you've talked in past

00:26:02.020 conferences about

00:26:02.760 western independence

00:26:03.600 and what the road

00:26:04.820 forward is going to

00:26:05.540 look like

00:26:06.020 we are just a few days

00:26:07.600 after the equalization

00:26:08.900 referendum in which

00:26:09.900 it's looking like

00:26:10.800 probably six and ten

00:26:11.840 Albertans said

00:26:12.500 they wanted something

00:26:13.520 to change there

00:26:14.320 how does that color

00:26:15.860 the way that you

00:26:17.000 view this event

00:26:17.820 well I think like

00:26:20.860 like one of the things

00:26:21.840 that John Robson

00:26:22.520 pointed out to us

00:26:23.240 when we were talking

00:26:23.880 about this

00:26:24.380 is sure we want

00:26:25.580 to stop equalization

00:26:26.620 quite frankly

00:26:28.300 we have a lot of people

00:26:30.080 who want to talk

00:26:30.700 about you know

00:26:31.640 western independence

00:26:32.480 having our own country

00:26:33.440 but as John said

00:26:34.720 and I agreed with him

00:26:35.660 and that's why

00:26:36.060 we're having the conference

00:26:36.960 not much point

00:26:38.560 creating your own country

00:26:39.460 and then going

00:26:40.000 broke in your own country

00:26:41.080 and so clearly

00:26:42.480 I mean health care

00:26:43.660 is consuming

00:26:44.660 more than half

00:26:45.520 of the resources

00:26:46.040 or near half

00:26:46.720 of the government resources

00:26:47.620 in all the provinces

00:26:48.460 it's something

00:26:49.260 that we need to deal with

00:26:50.120 and I think we led

00:26:51.380 a really good discussion

00:26:52.300 here and certainly

00:26:52.880 talked about a lot

00:26:54.140 of options that need

00:26:54.960 to be talked about

00:26:55.720 why do they need

00:26:57.120 to be talked about

00:26:57.700 why was health care

00:26:58.620 the single issue

00:26:59.640 you felt needed

00:27:00.240 to be tackled

00:27:00.860 for this seminar

00:27:01.620 well you know

00:27:02.900 half the budget

00:27:03.580 for one thing

00:27:04.240 you know what I mean

00:27:04.700 and quite frankly

00:27:06.280 I think it was so clear

00:27:07.800 that some of the responses

00:27:08.880 to COVID

00:27:09.460 were just totally

00:27:10.600 like irrational

00:27:12.220 I think is the only word

00:27:13.280 I can think of

00:27:13.920 and so I said

00:27:14.940 like what's going on

00:27:15.840 like who's making

00:27:16.520 these decisions

00:27:17.180 how can we continually

00:27:18.260 make you know

00:27:19.240 decisions that so

00:27:20.140 so defy the science

00:27:21.620 so defy logic

00:27:22.680 and as Colonel Redmond

00:27:24.100 pointed out

00:27:24.680 like we look at

00:27:25.660 a pandemic response

00:27:26.800 that should have

00:27:27.360 eight or nine

00:27:27.880 different responses

00:27:28.680 and we only had one

00:27:29.720 you know

00:27:30.220 the health care system

00:27:31.440 so there's so many

00:27:32.620 things that were going wrong

00:27:33.660 but I think just the way

00:27:34.740 that the COVID

00:27:36.360 sort of dropped

00:27:37.340 the curtain down

00:27:38.080 from what a mess

00:27:39.160 you know

00:27:39.480 we're actually in

00:27:40.140 in our health care system

00:27:41.220 what is it that you

00:27:43.140 would like to see

00:27:43.940 moving forward

00:27:44.620 in this province

00:27:45.320 with health care

00:27:46.180 and other things

00:27:46.700 and I'll qualify that

00:27:47.640 by saying a lot

00:27:48.320 of people

00:27:48.760 across the country

00:27:50.120 that were very fed up

00:27:50.940 with lockdowns

00:27:51.700 and restrictions

00:27:52.180 were looking at Alberta

00:27:54.020 and Jason Kenney's

00:27:54.880 open for some

00:27:55.540 are open for good message

00:27:56.620 and saying wow

00:27:57.740 this is the way to do it

00:27:58.680 and then when all of a sudden

00:27:59.480 Alberta throws in

00:28:00.260 a vaccine passport

00:28:01.040 it doesn't look like

00:28:02.200 Canada has that

00:28:03.220 safe haven

00:28:03.980 for people that don't want

00:28:05.980 a made by government

00:28:07.160 solution to these things

00:28:08.300 no I mean I think

00:28:09.700 this is one more place

00:28:11.080 where I think

00:28:11.620 Jason Kenney

00:28:12.440 the supposed conservative

00:28:13.620 has betrayed us

00:28:14.900 you know what I mean

00:28:15.280 like I think he could

00:28:16.480 have done a better job

00:28:17.380 of defending

00:28:17.960 some of the

00:28:19.160 the oil industry

00:28:20.700 projects that were

00:28:21.520 on the table

00:28:22.080 and I mean he certainly

00:28:23.060 could have done

00:28:23.600 a better job of this

00:28:24.480 I mean to me

00:28:25.100 he could have

00:28:25.600 distinguished himself

00:28:26.780 and Alberta

00:28:27.560 as a leader

00:28:28.340 in the free world

00:28:29.200 by you know

00:28:30.400 looking around

00:28:31.060 like looking at Sweden

00:28:32.080 look at a lot

00:28:33.100 of the other examples

00:28:33.940 I mean we're the

00:28:34.820 free enterprise people

00:28:35.840 and he could have said

00:28:36.580 look we're going to

00:28:37.440 take a free enterprise

00:28:38.320 approach to this

00:28:39.220 if you're worried

00:28:40.020 about the COVID

00:28:40.620 it's a free province

00:28:41.780 like stay in your house

00:28:42.800 like don't come out

00:28:43.620 but anybody wants

00:28:44.420 to come out

00:28:44.800 it'll be just like

00:28:45.260 the people

00:28:45.580 who wanted to go

00:28:46.120 to Fort McMurray

00:28:46.780 and you know

00:28:47.460 find the oil

00:28:48.060 in the ground

00:28:48.440 they went there

00:28:49.060 and they turned

00:28:49.940 Alberta into one

00:28:50.800 of the miracles

00:28:51.320 of the modern world

00:28:52.220 and I think

00:28:52.980 we could have done

00:28:53.520 that with a response

00:28:54.360 to COVID

00:28:54.760 if we'd have

00:28:55.260 taken a rational

00:28:56.220 approach to it

00:28:56.900 instead of

00:28:57.360 I don't know

00:28:58.140 what you would call

00:28:58.800 the kind of approach

00:28:59.500 they've taken

00:29:00.000 it's irrational

00:29:01.520 I guess is the

00:29:02.180 opposite of that

00:29:02.820 yeah

00:29:03.040 we heard during

00:29:04.320 the last federal election

00:29:05.600 whenever there was

00:29:06.380 even a whisper

00:29:07.040 from the conservatives

00:29:08.600 that they might

00:29:09.340 support some reform

00:29:10.720 of the health care system

00:29:11.700 that might maybe

00:29:12.600 give some private alternatives

00:29:14.780 the media descends

00:29:15.920 the liberals pounce

00:29:16.740 the NDP pounce

00:29:17.560 and you can't really

00:29:18.600 have an honest discussion

00:29:19.780 about some of these

00:29:20.480 alternatives or ways

00:29:21.580 that you could fix the system

00:29:22.700 so how do you hope

00:29:23.940 to break through that

00:29:24.840 with some of the ideas

00:29:25.620 that have come out here

00:29:26.360 because I note that

00:29:26.980 a lot of the politicians

00:29:27.820 aren't in attendance

00:29:29.040 so how do you actually

00:29:29.940 change the climate

00:29:31.100 in Canada

00:29:31.600 so you can talk

00:29:32.820 about these things

00:29:33.620 well two things

00:29:35.480 I mean

00:29:35.900 and again

00:29:37.460 Maxime Bernier

00:29:38.980 talked about this

00:29:39.740 last night

00:29:40.200 he said like

00:29:40.820 what Paul Himmons

00:29:41.560 is doing with

00:29:42.040 his Wild Rose

00:29:42.660 Independence Party

00:29:43.560 is he's prepared

00:29:45.640 to lead the discussion

00:29:46.580 and quite frankly

00:29:47.380 you know Maxime Bernier

00:29:48.760 is prepared to lead

00:29:49.540 the discussion

00:29:50.060 and some of my

00:29:51.260 federal conservative

00:29:52.020 friends have complained

00:29:52.880 to me about why

00:29:53.620 I was supporting

00:29:54.160 Maxime Bernier

00:29:54.920 and I said well

00:29:55.660 for one thing

00:29:56.240 because he's a

00:29:57.000 genuinely nice guy

00:29:58.000 but for another reason

00:29:59.260 he actually has

00:30:00.260 a written plan

00:30:01.380 to deal with

00:30:02.040 every problem

00:30:02.640 that we've spent

00:30:03.220 our life

00:30:03.580 complaining about

00:30:04.260 and so when someone

00:30:05.000 comes up with a plan

00:30:05.820 I think they deserve

00:30:06.740 they deserve to be

00:30:07.940 supported

00:30:08.320 but part of what

00:30:09.320 his plan

00:30:09.780 and he said

00:30:10.260 something that would

00:30:10.920 help him fix the nation

00:30:12.500 is like for Alberta

00:30:13.860 to say look

00:30:14.420 we're not putting up

00:30:15.280 with this BS anymore

00:30:16.300 we want a new deal

00:30:18.020 a fair deal

00:30:18.700 or we're leaving

00:30:19.520 and so I think

00:30:20.560 the combination

00:30:21.380 of the Wild Rose Party

00:30:23.120 saying we're not

00:30:23.780 prepared to put up

00:30:24.560 with this anymore

00:30:25.240 and so the people

00:30:26.480 they have two options

00:30:27.500 they can help

00:30:28.000 Maxime Bernier

00:30:28.700 fix the country

00:30:29.480 or they can help

00:30:30.540 Paul Himmons

00:30:31.380 create a new one

00:30:32.200 well you always

00:30:33.260 put on a great event

00:30:34.280 and I'm glad

00:30:34.880 to have the opportunity

00:30:35.860 yet again

00:30:36.380 to participate in it

00:30:37.540 thanks very much Danny

00:30:38.340 thanks for coming

00:30:39.320 we'll look forward

00:30:39.820 to seeing you

00:30:40.220 at the next one

00:30:40.780 take care

00:30:41.700 that was Danny Hozak

00:30:44.120 my thanks again

00:30:44.900 to the good people

00:30:45.700 of Alberta

00:30:46.160 who are always

00:30:46.660 so hospitable to me

00:30:47.820 and as I said

00:30:48.960 in a little bit

00:30:49.720 of a joke

00:30:50.200 a semi joke

00:30:51.040 I guess

00:30:51.380 in my opening remarks

00:30:53.080 when I was thanking

00:30:53.720 them for their hospitality

00:30:54.580 I was also talking

00:30:55.440 about equalization

00:30:56.260 as an Ontarian

00:30:57.680 but nevertheless

00:30:58.300 got a few laughs

00:30:59.560 and a few cries

00:31:00.200 I think

00:31:00.560 we'll be back

00:31:01.360 in just a couple

00:31:02.100 of moments here

00:31:02.640 with more of

00:31:03.260 the Andrew Lawton

00:31:03.820 show here on

00:31:04.420 True North

00:31:04.820 stay tuned

00:31:05.500 you're tuned

00:31:09.040 in to the

00:31:09.680 Andrew Lawton

00:31:10.520 show

00:31:10.880 we are back

00:31:13.960 this is the

00:31:14.800 Andrew Lawton

00:31:15.320 show here on

00:31:16.240 True North

00:31:16.860 I don't want to

00:31:17.860 make it an

00:31:18.280 entirely Alberta

00:31:19.440 show but there

00:31:20.080 is a bit of

00:31:20.560 an Alberta

00:31:20.960 tie-in to

00:31:21.840 this next

00:31:22.460 segment

00:31:22.820 you may remember

00:31:23.940 last week

00:31:24.440 we spoke about

00:31:25.060 Calgary Mayor

00:31:25.700 Jody Gondek's

00:31:26.660 declaration that

00:31:27.660 her first order

00:31:28.560 of business

00:31:29.060 will be to

00:31:29.860 declare a

00:31:30.480 climate emergency

00:31:31.600 this is the

00:31:32.360 biggest issue

00:31:33.420 facing the

00:31:34.060 people of

00:31:34.520 Calgary

00:31:35.000 the mayor

00:31:35.700 is going to

00:31:36.080 come in

00:31:36.480 she's going to

00:31:36.940 say it's a

00:31:37.360 climate emergency

00:31:38.040 she's going to

00:31:38.880 move past

00:31:40.020 oil and gas

00:31:40.840 obviously this

00:31:42.280 was not a

00:31:42.840 position she

00:31:43.420 campaigned on

00:31:44.240 so people in

00:31:45.360 Calgary were

00:31:45.960 feeling a little

00:31:46.660 bit under the

00:31:47.440 gun

00:31:47.640 certainly those

00:31:48.360 in the

00:31:48.980 embattled

00:31:49.520 oil and gas

00:31:50.260 sector

00:31:50.660 at that press

00:31:51.740 conference of

00:31:52.500 Jason Kenney's

00:31:53.420 I asked him

00:31:53.860 about this

00:31:54.360 and said

00:31:54.740 listen I know

00:31:55.560 you want to

00:31:55.900 work with all

00:31:56.300 the mayors

00:31:56.700 but what do

00:31:57.360 you make of

00:31:57.760 this priority

00:31:58.560 and well this

00:31:59.320 was that

00:31:59.640 exchange

00:32:00.160 obviously as

00:32:01.500 you're well

00:32:01.800 aware the

00:32:02.320 mayor-elect

00:32:03.040 Calgary has

00:32:04.320 decided to

00:32:04.940 make her

00:32:05.280 first order

00:32:05.800 of business

00:32:06.220 as mayor

00:32:06.720 to declare

00:32:07.840 a climate

00:32:08.500 emergency

00:32:09.040 she's also

00:32:09.740 made comments

00:32:10.680 that have

00:32:11.140 raised some

00:32:12.460 alarm bells

00:32:12.980 for people

00:32:13.420 in the

00:32:13.660 energy sector

00:32:14.320 talking about

00:32:14.980 moving past

00:32:15.860 oil and gas

00:32:17.100 as premier

00:32:17.940 I know you

00:32:18.360 want to

00:32:18.580 work with

00:32:19.000 the mayor

00:32:19.440 and work

00:32:19.960 with all

00:32:20.300 of the

00:32:20.600 newly

00:32:20.980 elected

00:32:21.280 representatives

00:32:21.960 of last

00:32:22.580 week's

00:32:22.900 election

00:32:23.200 but what's

00:32:23.880 your response

00:32:24.360 to comment

00:32:24.840 like that

00:32:25.460 well in

00:32:28.400 a city

00:32:28.840 that has

00:32:30.200 been

00:32:30.520 suffering

00:32:31.100 from near

00:32:32.800 double digit

00:32:33.320 unemployment

00:32:33.960 that has

00:32:36.460 gone through

00:32:37.080 five years

00:32:38.160 of deep

00:32:39.620 economic

00:32:40.160 adversity

00:32:40.800 I find that

00:32:41.780 a peculiar

00:32:42.420 priority

00:32:42.920 I would have

00:32:44.080 thought that

00:32:44.860 the mayor

00:32:46.360 of Calgary's

00:32:46.980 top priority

00:32:47.560 would be getting

00:32:48.140 Calgarians back 0.99

00:32:48.900 to work

00:32:49.300 that's certainly

00:32:50.040 my top priority

00:32:50.740 you know what

00:32:51.580 I think he was

00:32:52.100 probably being a

00:32:53.040 little bit

00:32:53.440 restrained there

00:32:54.320 by calling it

00:32:55.020 a peculiar

00:32:55.840 set of

00:32:56.700 priorities

00:32:57.160 but I'm

00:32:57.860 glad that

00:32:58.240 he's taking

00:32:58.760 aim at it

00:32:59.320 and when you

00:33:00.300 have a

00:33:00.900 province

00:33:01.360 and specifically

00:33:02.380 a city

00:33:02.900 that is dealing

00:33:03.460 with huge

00:33:03.900 unemployment

00:33:04.400 as you may

00:33:05.360 have seen

00:33:05.720 from

00:33:06.120 Canis Malcolm's

00:33:07.020 documentary

00:33:07.600 a couple

00:33:07.980 of years

00:33:08.240 back

00:33:08.500 Calgary

00:33:08.900 in crisis

00:33:09.460 Calgary

00:33:10.240 is a city

00:33:10.720 that has

00:33:11.040 been hugely

00:33:11.740 suffering

00:33:12.360 in part

00:33:12.800 because of

00:33:13.540 decline in

00:33:14.420 Alberta's

00:33:14.860 oil and

00:33:15.160 gas sector

00:33:15.680 but then

00:33:15.980 when you

00:33:16.200 have government

00:33:16.840 putting barriers

00:33:17.820 on top of

00:33:18.640 that

00:33:18.980 and then you

00:33:19.880 throw the 0.65

00:33:20.220 pandemic

00:33:20.560 into the

00:33:21.040 mix

00:33:21.240 this is why

00:33:21.780 Calgary's

00:33:22.340 downtown

00:33:22.820 has been a

00:33:23.880 ghost town

00:33:24.460 in many

00:33:24.940 respects

00:33:25.380 and sure

00:33:26.000 little parts

00:33:26.660 of it

00:33:26.840 have come

00:33:27.120 back

00:33:27.460 but this

00:33:28.320 is not

00:33:28.800 a city

00:33:29.440 who most

00:33:30.780 people in

00:33:31.340 it would

00:33:31.640 say is

00:33:32.520 suffering from

00:33:33.140 a climate

00:33:33.620 emergency

00:33:34.160 first and

00:33:34.740 foremost

00:33:35.080 or even

00:33:35.520 ranking at

00:33:36.480 the top

00:33:36.820 10 of

00:33:37.460 what their

00:33:37.880 problems are

00:33:38.600 and their

00:33:38.840 challenges

00:33:39.280 are

00:33:39.600 so this

00:33:41.020 is why

00:33:41.320 Jody Gondek

00:33:42.000 I think

00:33:42.300 did not

00:33:42.760 read the

00:33:43.600 room as

00:33:44.160 we say

00:33:44.680 nor did

00:33:46.360 the hosts

00:33:47.120 of the

00:33:47.560 COP26

00:33:48.240 conference

00:33:49.060 in Glasgow

00:33:49.780 starting in

00:33:50.440 just a couple

00:33:50.880 of days

00:33:51.280 this is

00:33:52.120 where

00:33:52.440 the new

00:33:53.240 battle

00:33:53.600 so this

00:33:53.980 is where

00:33:54.320 30,000

00:33:55.160 people from

00:33:55.700 around the

00:33:56.120 world are

00:33:56.460 going to

00:33:56.660 fly to

00:33:57.800 tell us

00:33:58.460 all to

00:33:58.820 fly less

00:33:59.560 this is

00:34:00.120 literally

00:34:00.480 what's

00:34:00.840 happening

00:34:01.140 the UK

00:34:01.620 government's

00:34:02.220 chief science

00:34:02.880 advisor

00:34:03.360 who is a

00:34:04.580 gentleman by

00:34:04.980 the name of

00:34:05.360 Sir Patrick

00:34:05.940 Valance

00:34:06.480 has said

00:34:07.200 that we

00:34:07.560 need to

00:34:08.040 eat less

00:34:08.860 meat and

00:34:09.480 reduce

00:34:09.960 flights

00:34:10.380 he says

00:34:11.040 this

00:34:11.400 while the

00:34:12.200 government

00:34:12.560 he advises

00:34:13.380 is hosting

00:34:14.180 a conference

00:34:14.880 that 30,000

00:34:15.960 people from

00:34:16.460 every corner

00:34:16.900 of the globe

00:34:17.300 are flying to

00:34:17.940 to tell us

00:34:18.420 all to

00:34:19.180 reduce our

00:34:19.680 flights and

00:34:20.200 eat less

00:34:20.600 meat and

00:34:21.880 the Glasgow

00:34:22.540 menu has

00:34:23.820 now become

00:34:24.600 the real

00:34:25.020 battleground

00:34:25.720 here because

00:34:26.600 originally they

00:34:27.560 were going to

00:34:27.960 still serve a

00:34:28.760 lot of

00:34:29.020 meat and

00:34:29.840 now there's

00:34:30.300 a new

00:34:30.540 campaign that

00:34:31.340 is saying

00:34:31.760 you can't

00:34:32.340 be a meat

00:34:33.120 eating

00:34:33.540 environmentalist

00:34:34.780 so what

00:34:35.760 they've said

00:34:36.100 now is okay

00:34:36.580 the menu

00:34:36.960 will be

00:34:37.300 dominated by

00:34:38.180 plant-based

00:34:38.920 dishes it'll

00:34:39.500 be mostly

00:34:40.000 Scottish

00:34:40.620 no haggis 0.98

00:34:41.680 you don't

00:34:42.340 get to

00:34:42.740 plant-based

00:34:43.260 haggis I

00:34:43.820 believe but

00:34:44.740 they're going

00:34:45.220 to have this

00:34:45.720 and they're

00:34:46.080 trying to

00:34:46.360 capitulate to

00:34:46.980 this I

00:34:47.220 don't know

00:34:47.440 if there's

00:34:47.660 going to

00:34:47.800 be any

00:34:48.200 meat I

00:34:48.500 mean the

00:34:48.720 last I

00:34:49.120 was hearing

00:34:49.500 is that

00:34:49.860 there was

00:34:50.500 going to

00:34:50.820 be some

00:34:51.340 meat still

00:34:51.980 Alan

00:34:52.480 Cumming the

00:34:53.120 actor who's

00:34:53.860 a Scott

00:34:54.360 himself has

00:34:55.020 said that

00:34:55.700 it's an

00:34:56.140 irresponsible

00:34:56.940 decision to

00:34:57.720 serve meat

00:34:58.240 on this

00:34:58.740 so the

00:34:59.500 real problem

00:35:00.200 is not that

00:35:01.100 all these

00:35:01.400 people are

00:35:01.780 flying to

00:35:02.660 Scotland

00:35:03.280 the real

00:35:03.740 problem is

00:35:04.880 that they're

00:35:05.380 all going to

00:35:06.100 perhaps enjoy

00:35:06.920 a hamburger

00:35:07.740 when they get

00:35:08.760 there this is

00:35:09.440 the challenge

00:35:10.340 of this but

00:35:10.860 the problem

00:35:11.700 with this is

00:35:12.220 that there

00:35:13.260 is a huge

00:35:14.240 chasm between

00:35:17.260 the carbon

00:35:17.840 emissions of

00:35:18.400 a country like

00:35:18.940 China and

00:35:19.520 the carbon

00:35:20.320 emissions of

00:35:21.200 a country like

00:35:21.800 Canada

00:35:22.140 China responsible 1.00

00:35:23.080 for 28% of

00:35:24.640 the world's

00:35:25.120 annual carbon

00:35:25.680 emissions

00:35:26.080 Canada responsible 1.00

00:35:27.060 for two

00:35:27.640 but these

00:35:28.700 people will say

00:35:29.500 that the issue

00:35:30.080 is a Canadian

00:35:30.900 family having

00:35:32.480 meat and not

00:35:34.380 China's industrial

00:35:35.740 emissions

00:35:36.120 now if you want

00:35:36.820 to challenge

00:35:37.440 whether emissions

00:35:38.700 are the best

00:35:39.540 metric of a

00:35:40.500 country's

00:35:41.000 environmental

00:35:41.480 record that is

00:35:42.780 an entirely

00:35:43.320 legitimate

00:35:43.800 discussion

00:35:44.400 but even

00:35:45.560 by these

00:35:46.120 people's

00:35:46.660 stated metrics

00:35:48.060 no one in

00:35:49.780 Canada if

00:35:50.280 Canada were

00:35:50.880 to go dark

00:35:51.560 overnight and

00:35:53.520 not produce

00:35:54.160 anything not

00:35:55.500 emit an iota

00:35:56.440 of carbon

00:35:57.160 Canada would 0.87

00:35:59.380 not have

00:36:00.060 dropped the

00:36:00.880 world's record

00:36:02.320 on this by

00:36:03.280 more than

00:36:03.940 2% 2%

00:36:05.860 that's it

00:36:06.380 if China were

00:36:07.940 to go dark

00:36:08.440 all of a sudden

00:36:08.980 emissions have

00:36:09.540 dropped by

00:36:10.300 28% which is

00:36:11.680 almost the 30%

00:36:12.760 target that

00:36:13.820 everyone is

00:36:14.620 supposed to

00:36:15.320 adhere to as

00:36:16.140 they head

00:36:16.460 towards this

00:36:17.060 net zero

00:36:17.660 ambition which

00:36:18.720 is only going

00:36:19.200 to cost money

00:36:19.800 so we have a

00:36:20.880 recently re-elected

00:36:21.960 liberal government

00:36:22.620 in Canada that's

00:36:23.500 going to be with

00:36:24.240 enthusiasm sending

00:36:26.060 a delegation to

00:36:26.900 Glasgow at which

00:36:27.940 they'll want to

00:36:28.460 show off to all

00:36:29.160 their climate

00:36:29.600 loving friends in

00:36:30.380 every other

00:36:30.780 country and make

00:36:32.520 all of these

00:36:33.020 commitments that

00:36:34.120 necessarily come

00:36:35.380 back to hurt

00:36:36.600 Canada and to

00:36:38.060 hurt the Canadian 1.00

00:36:38.700 economy and by

00:36:40.760 the way we are

00:36:41.340 not even meeting

00:36:42.160 our Paris

00:36:42.760 commitments so

00:36:43.860 the targets

00:36:44.400 that were

00:36:44.720 supposed to be

00:36:45.340 the be-all and

00:36:45.940 end-all in

00:36:46.400 2015 were

00:36:47.580 nowhere near and

00:36:48.480 most countries in

00:36:49.180 the world aren't

00:36:49.740 as well but

00:36:51.440 what's happened

00:36:52.200 now is that in

00:36:54.160 doing this the

00:36:55.180 government wants to

00:36:56.160 just keep pushing

00:36:56.900 things further and

00:36:57.860 further and we

00:36:59.640 are the ones left

00:37:00.760 paying for it

00:37:01.760 literally and

00:37:03.160 figuratively we've

00:37:05.400 got to end things

00:37:06.000 there my thanks to

00:37:06.700 all of you for

00:37:07.380 tuning into the

00:37:08.060 show we'll be

00:37:08.820 back tomorrow with

00:37:09.900 a special edition of

00:37:10.860 the program delving

00:37:12.080 into free speech

00:37:13.600 as the government

00:37:14.440 eyes a return of

00:37:15.460 that censorship bill

00:37:16.380 C-36 that'll be

00:37:17.900 tomorrow you won't

00:37:18.640 want to miss that

00:37:19.300 and then I'm off

00:37:20.320 next week and the

00:37:21.500 week after we'll be

00:37:22.220 back with full

00:37:22.760 strength Andrew

00:37:23.540 Lawton show

00:37:24.100 greatness I hope

00:37:25.160 nothing like a

00:37:26.420 little bit of

00:37:26.740 humility on true

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00:37:31.260 listening to the

00:37:31.880 Andrew Lawton

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Juno News - October 29, 2021

Albertans want equalization gone. What's next？

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