Juno News - All five players found not guilty in Hockey Canada trial

00:00:00.000 Yeah, guys, so there's been so much news coming in over the last few days.

00:00:03.240 It's been hard to even determine what to discuss here.

00:00:05.940 I mean, from big, huge national stories to sad stories like Hulk Hogan dying.

00:00:10.900 I mean, what has caught your eye over the last few days?

00:00:13.940 I mean, there's just so much.

00:00:14.940 It's almost an overload of news.

00:00:18.660 Yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan and Ozzy Osbourne in the same week,

00:00:21.700 they both, in my mind anyway, seemed completely immortal.

00:00:25.080 And I suppose that their legends are, you know, even though they may be gone.

00:00:29.540 Yeah, I mean, if they're talked about for centuries to come, let's say,

00:00:33.020 then they are immortal in a way, you know.

00:00:34.980 They say there's, what's the saying?

00:00:37.860 You die twice when you pass away and when your name is spoken for the last time, right?

00:00:42.680 Like, that's how it goes.

00:00:46.060 What about you, Walid, anything stick out?

00:00:48.860 Yeah, well, you know, I'm not so big on the music industry, frankly,

00:00:52.200 but I know that Ozzy Osbourne is such a big name that you can hear about him wherever you are.

00:00:56.160 I mean, I saw a football club, his favorite football club in England, Hanson Villa,

00:01:00.480 gave him a tribute the other day.

00:01:02.420 So wherever you are, whether it's the sporting industry or in the music industry,

00:01:06.840 you know, talking about a big name, obviously,

00:01:08.620 and obviously the Hulk Hogan story is all over Twitter as well.

00:01:11.400 So sad to see lots of life always.

00:01:14.040 And, of course, big names and people that have probably a lot more influence

00:01:17.380 than you can realize sometimes.

00:01:19.140 So very sad to see.

00:01:20.680 Well, my name's Isaac Limer.

00:01:23.720 I'm here with my True North colleagues, Alex Zoltan, and Walid Tam Tam.

00:01:26.580 Let's hop into that first story right away.

00:01:32.600 So, obviously, some huge news coming out of this lengthy Hockey Canada hearing,

00:01:37.120 and Alex, trial here.

00:01:39.500 But long story short, all five players in the high-profile case have been found not guilty

00:01:45.680 after Ontario Superior Court Justice Maria Corocha delivered her ruling Thursday afternoon

00:01:51.640 in front of apparently a packed courtroom.

00:01:54.720 And, I mean, yeah.

00:01:56.300 Do you want to just take us through the case, Alex,

00:01:58.100 and maybe some of the public reactions as well?

00:02:00.860 Like, what's going on here?

00:02:03.080 Yeah, sure.

00:02:03.760 So there was actually five players that were defendants in the case.

00:02:07.520 They were all charged with one count of sexual assault.

00:02:11.540 One of the players, Michael McLeod, was charged with an additional offense,

00:02:15.140 which was party to an offense.

00:02:18.560 Basically, in layman's terms, what that means is that he was accused of aiding

00:02:21.840 and abetting other people in criminal activity.

00:02:24.700 It was turned into a judge trial as opposed to a trial by jury

00:02:28.660 after the highly unusual and, yeah, I guess to say just unusual dismissal of two separate juries.

00:02:36.400 We don't really need to go into why that happened,

00:02:39.380 although that's an interesting story in and of itself.

00:02:41.780 The judge was pretty brutal in offering her decision.

00:02:47.760 She called the key crown witness, which was the complainant.

00:02:52.100 She goes by the name EM.

00:02:53.580 Her real name is covered by a standard publication ban in these sort of cases.

00:02:57.020 The judge called her unreliable, inconsistent, and not credible.

00:03:04.240 So it was almost a scathing rebuke of the entire case.

00:03:07.980 And I had said online, you know, privately to many people

00:03:11.220 that I was actually surprised this trial even went to trial.

00:03:14.640 So I'm not terribly surprised by the acquittal,

00:03:17.640 but I am surprised by the unhinged reactions online.

00:03:21.020 A lot of people seem to think that they're still guilty

00:03:24.660 even though they were deemed not guilty.

00:03:27.100 I did have something to ask you about, Alex,

00:03:29.260 because I saw this online as well.

00:03:30.820 A few people asking this question about EM specifically.

00:03:33.620 Obviously, this trial, in short, ruined the careers,

00:03:37.060 at least for a temporary basis for these five NHL players.

00:03:40.120 So now do we get to find out who this girl is 0.97

00:03:42.680 and maybe can she suffer social consequences 1.00

00:03:45.580 of at least having put these people through this?

00:03:48.040 I mean, like, is her identity protected indefinitely?

00:03:51.140 Like, what's the rules there?

00:03:52.960 Yeah, so I do believe that her identity

00:03:54.800 is protected virtually indefinitely.

00:03:57.120 There's a few reasons for that.

00:03:58.580 In Canada, we believe in protecting complainants

00:04:01.660 and sexual assault trials so that we don't discourage

00:04:03.660 other people from bringing their cases forward.

00:04:06.520 That differs, obviously, from the system

00:04:08.720 that they have in the United States.

00:04:10.340 There are certain pros and cons in both directions,

00:04:13.720 depending on which approach that you take.

00:04:15.440 Neither one is without compromise.

00:04:16.660 In terms of whether her name will ever be released,

00:04:20.060 I mean, ultimately, I guess that's kind of up to her,

00:04:22.300 whether she wants to release her name or not.

00:04:24.420 Whether it should be released,

00:04:26.140 I actually kind of disagree in the sense

00:04:28.700 that I thought that she was credible.

00:04:31.760 She was inconsistent, but I did think that she was credible

00:04:34.300 in the sense that there was very little disagreement

00:04:36.420 about what occurred.

00:04:38.400 There was just a lot of disagreement

00:04:39.620 over whether what occurred was criminal or not.

00:04:42.520 Because what is immoral is not always criminal, right?

00:04:46.200 Or what is in bad taste is not always criminal.

00:04:49.280 And likewise, as we saw with Tamera Leach and Chris Barber,

00:04:52.100 what is illegal is not always immoral

00:04:54.060 in the eyes of the public.

00:04:55.660 So I actually found her probably more credible than the judge,

00:05:00.100 but the judge also identified a lot more inconsistencies than I did.

00:05:03.120 And I guess that's why she's a judge 1.00

00:05:04.360 and I'm just a bodily crime reporter.

00:05:07.440 Yeah, Waleed, were you paying any attention 1.00

00:05:09.400 to the Hockey Canada trial

00:05:10.740 or its subsequent, I guess, social reactions?

00:05:16.080 The trial was clearly headed in a certain direction.

00:05:18.280 So I was much more interested

00:05:19.340 about what the court of public opinion had to say.

00:05:22.420 Because obviously, you know,

00:05:23.560 we figured out very quickly

00:05:24.660 that all people were found out guilty.

00:05:26.720 And so the question is,

00:05:28.220 how will they be embraced by their fan bases,

00:05:30.280 their teams?

00:05:31.460 How will their careers move forward?

00:05:32.880 And this has happened in other sporting environments as well,

00:05:35.140 where athletes, oftentimes high-profile individuals,

00:05:38.380 have been accused, have been found out guilty.

00:05:40.080 But the career ramifications have been high cost

00:05:42.680 because, you know, life is short, as we say,

00:05:44.940 but a career in sports is even shorter.

00:05:47.640 And I think hockey has that same role, frankly.

00:05:49.600 And so missing, I don't know how long they missed.

00:05:52.460 I don't know if Alex, you have any idea

00:05:53.800 about how many times this,

00:05:55.380 how much time he spent off the ice

00:05:57.200 with their teams or the national program.

00:05:59.620 But regardless, any time is a lot of time

00:06:02.060 if it isn't something to do

00:06:03.300 with the actual sport in hand, like injury.

00:06:05.800 So it's unfortunate that they had to go through that,

00:06:08.160 but it's not the first

00:06:10.180 and maybe not be the last.

00:06:13.160 But I definitely do think it's put a bit of a dent

00:06:16.140 in what was once a much more strong,

00:06:18.580 I could say, Me Too movement effect in Canada,

00:06:21.620 where, you know,

00:06:22.700 as soon as the accusation goes public,

00:06:25.540 people's careers, profiles,

00:06:27.220 everything just goes to bits.

00:06:28.980 So I wonder what the long-term applications will be

00:06:33.360 on perhaps future high-profile cases of this matter.

00:06:36.660 Yeah, I did have something to say

00:06:38.180 just based on the NHL recurrence of these players,

00:06:41.740 let's say, because the goalie,

00:06:43.980 in the case Carter Hart,

00:06:45.200 obviously he's from Shore Park, I think,

00:06:47.100 which is essentially right outside of Edmonton.

00:06:49.220 And a lot of Edmontonians,

00:06:50.880 given our search for a goalie,

00:06:52.320 have been calling for him to return home.

00:06:54.620 But something interesting I found

00:06:55.820 that John Shannon just tweeted,

00:06:57.260 a very reputable hockey commentator,

00:06:59.460 he said, quote,

00:07:00.680 the five former world junior players

00:07:02.260 who were acquitted in London today

00:07:03.440 are not technically suspended by the NHL,

00:07:05.800 but at this point,

00:07:06.500 they are not eligible to play in the NHL.

00:07:08.820 The commissioner will have a say on their future.

00:07:10.500 So I don't know,

00:07:11.960 he didn't go into detail,

00:07:12.920 so I don't know what the legal ramifications are there

00:07:14.840 and what the NHL has to decide

00:07:16.520 for these players to play.

00:07:17.560 Like, based on this tweet,

00:07:19.040 I don't think a player could be signed tomorrow.

00:07:22.660 So we'll see what happens there.

00:07:23.660 I think that's actually a union concern

00:07:25.520 the union, NHL union,

00:07:28.780 which has, as you probably know,

00:07:30.760 a lot of sway on the league.

00:07:32.180 So we'll have to see what happens.

00:07:33.520 And then, I mean,

00:07:34.980 it'll be very, very interesting

00:07:36.180 to see if any of these players are signed quickly

00:07:38.820 because these are,

00:07:40.000 as you mentioned there, Alex,

00:07:41.180 like very talented hockey players.

00:07:42.560 These aren't some fourth liners

00:07:44.320 like Carter Hart, for example.

00:07:45.740 I mean, he's a starting goaltender.

00:07:47.260 Some of the other players there,

00:07:48.420 they could be on your first, second line.

00:07:50.060 Like these are some superstars in some cases.

00:07:52.300 So definitely some teams

00:07:54.020 are probably going to be looking to sign them,

00:07:57.280 especially if they can get a discount

00:07:58.540 because, I mean,

00:07:59.380 those kind of deals

00:08:00.140 don't just come around, right?

00:08:02.280 Yeah.

00:08:02.720 I mean, I know that one of the players,

00:08:04.000 Alex Formington,

00:08:05.080 he's stepped away from hockey entirely.

00:08:07.940 He's working in construction now.

00:08:10.120 As for the other players,

00:08:11.560 Dylan Dubé,

00:08:12.280 I think he's playing in Minsk,

00:08:14.460 was the last place that he was playing.

00:08:15.840 And Michael McLeod was playing in Afghanistan,

00:08:19.200 or not Afghanistan, Kazakhstan,

00:08:21.620 which, you know,

00:08:23.900 is pretty much just as remote, frankly.

00:08:25.680 They just don't have as many hockey rinks

00:08:27.000 in Afghanistan as they do in Kazakhstan.

00:08:28.920 He's actually playing in an arena

00:08:29.940 that sometimes doubles as a circus tent.

00:08:32.940 So, yeah,

00:08:34.140 it's been a really,

00:08:35.340 really interesting ride

00:08:36.100 for a lot of these players.

00:08:37.160 Carter Hart hasn't played for a while

00:08:38.540 and Calfoot,

00:08:39.380 I don't think,

00:08:39.760 has played anywhere

00:08:40.300 for a couple of years either.

00:08:41.720 So a couple of years away

00:08:43.860 from playing professional hockey

00:08:45.140 is really harmful

00:08:46.180 to a player's development.

00:08:47.480 As Walid was pointing out,

00:08:48.660 you know,

00:08:49.240 professional sports careers

00:08:50.320 are very short.

00:08:51.660 Well, not just that.

00:08:52.760 I mean, these guys,

00:08:53.460 if you think about it

00:08:54.020 from a financial perspective,

00:08:55.320 how short an NHL player's career is,

00:08:57.800 I mean,

00:08:58.000 they've lost millions of dollars.

00:08:59.220 Like, I don't know

00:08:59.860 what their contracts were,

00:09:01.000 but assuming Hart made

00:09:01.840 like five to eight million a year,

00:09:03.900 I mean,

00:09:04.200 how much has he lost?

00:09:05.720 It's unbelievable, right?

00:09:07.680 Yeah, and on that note,

00:09:08.420 there's an interesting little side note

00:09:09.580 to all of this,

00:09:10.140 which is Alex Formington,

00:09:11.700 who's no longer playing hockey,

00:09:13.240 his agent had told him

00:09:15.100 to negotiate harder,

00:09:16.120 I believe it was,

00:09:16.840 when his contract was up for renewal.

00:09:19.040 So he didn't re-sign.

00:09:20.700 And then in between

00:09:21.400 the amount of time

00:09:22.160 when he could have re-signed,

00:09:23.380 these charges came up

00:09:24.520 and he basically lost the offer.

00:09:27.020 And so he's suing his agent

00:09:28.280 and his agency

00:09:29.160 having a multi-million dollar lawsuit.

00:09:31.060 So that'll be another thing

00:09:32.580 to kind of watch

00:09:33.540 in the follow-up of all this.

00:09:35.160 The story that just keeps on giving,

00:09:37.040 eh, Alex?

00:09:37.760 Yeah, yeah.

00:09:38.920 Well, it's not the longest

00:09:40.080 mischief trial in history,

00:09:41.280 but it's still up there.

00:09:43.240 Speaking of a story

00:09:45.140 that keeps on giving,

00:09:46.760 sort of,

00:09:47.120 because it's evolved a bit,

00:09:48.780 of course,

00:09:49.860 recently it was revealed

00:09:51.800 that federal government employees

00:09:54.520 were streaming terabytes,

00:09:56.760 terabytes,

00:09:57.460 I mean,

00:09:57.680 that's hard to even quantify

00:09:59.280 as a lot of data,

00:10:01.240 terabytes of video

00:10:02.500 while at work,

00:10:03.540 I guess.

00:10:04.180 I think it was equivalent

00:10:05.620 to 3,000 hours of video.

00:10:08.460 Maybe that was just

00:10:09.120 a specific agency

00:10:09.940 or if it was all

00:10:10.460 the federal employees.

00:10:11.160 I don't know.

00:10:11.680 Waleed,

00:10:12.200 what was going on

00:10:13.500 with this story?

00:10:14.200 And as far as I understand,

00:10:15.820 they've now banned

00:10:16.780 Netflix and stuff

00:10:18.760 at federal government buildings.

00:10:20.300 What's the deal there?

00:10:21.880 So the ban actually came

00:10:23.180 last fall

00:10:24.700 and it's now revealed

00:10:27.160 more so

00:10:28.300 why that ban

00:10:29.200 came in the first place.

00:10:30.680 I mean,

00:10:30.860 obviously,

00:10:31.280 they have multiple reasons

00:10:32.560 to ban

00:10:33.020 Amazon Prime Video,

00:10:35.020 Disney+,

00:10:35.620 and obviously Netflix

00:10:36.640 because they simply

00:10:38.100 have no professional value

00:10:39.160 and now we're cited

00:10:40.060 in the first time

00:10:41.180 that they had announced

00:10:42.700 as to why they

00:10:43.860 banned

00:10:44.580 those streaming services

00:10:45.920 from the

00:10:47.080 government employee offices.

00:10:49.780 But something

00:10:50.280 that was revealed

00:10:51.040 later on

00:10:51.880 and that's the new story

00:10:53.120 of the day

00:10:53.560 is the fact that

00:10:54.860 one of the main reasons

00:10:56.020 was to deal with productivity

00:10:57.420 because you mentioned

00:10:59.180 3,000 hours.

00:11:00.340 3,000 hours

00:11:01.280 of standard video

00:11:02.800 is only the public service

00:11:04.800 and Procurement Canada

00:11:05.880 department.

00:11:07.320 That doesn't include,

00:11:08.000 for example,

00:11:08.440 the Privy Council

00:11:09.120 which had about

00:11:10.160 1.5 terabytes

00:11:11.160 which would amount

00:11:11.780 to closer to

00:11:12.500 1.5 to 1.6 thousand

00:11:14.740 hours of standard video.

00:11:15.860 Again,

00:11:16.260 for most of these offices

00:11:17.500 they're running on monitors

00:11:18.700 and computer hardware

00:11:19.680 and it's pretty straightforward.

00:11:21.340 So I wouldn't expect

00:11:21.880 anyone streaming

00:11:22.360 anything at 4K

00:11:23.200 or anything beyond HD.

00:11:25.500 So these figures

00:11:26.360 are quite relevant

00:11:27.380 to exactly what

00:11:28.500 they're looking at

00:11:29.120 on their screen.

00:11:30.000 So it is a lot of hours

00:11:31.800 and that's the Privy Council.

00:11:33.320 I think Global Affairs Canada

00:11:34.620 the Department of Fisheries

00:11:36.100 and Oceans

00:11:37.020 and then of course

00:11:37.980 the Department of Innovation Science

00:11:39.300 and Economic Development

00:11:40.240 were also among

00:11:41.620 the top 10 departments

00:11:43.200 that all had 0.75

00:11:46.520 almost 1 terabyte each

00:11:48.920 and that would be

00:11:49.940 at least 1,000 hours

00:11:51.360 worth of video.

00:11:52.080 So you can do

00:11:52.820 the numbers yourself.

00:11:54.380 That's thousands

00:11:55.400 upon thousands

00:11:56.160 of hours

00:11:56.900 between 10

00:11:58.180 different departments

00:11:59.220 that are working

00:12:01.060 in Ottawa

00:12:01.540 working on behalf

00:12:02.440 of Canadians

00:12:02.980 on the taxpayer dollar

00:12:04.140 on the hour

00:12:05.460 at the office.

00:12:07.180 So it makes sense

00:12:08.340 that this ban

00:12:09.120 came into effect

00:12:09.900 but frankly

00:12:11.060 for the sake

00:12:11.880 of transparency

00:12:12.460 it would have been

00:12:12.900 much better

00:12:13.260 to have access

00:12:14.000 to this information

00:12:14.700 prior

00:12:15.100 because I'm sure

00:12:16.260 that streaming services

00:12:17.660 aren't the only thing

00:12:18.420 that people can be doing

00:12:19.260 at work

00:12:19.800 that could distract them.

00:12:20.800 I mean we're in the age

00:12:21.460 of social media

00:12:22.060 where they

00:12:22.920 I mean TikTok

00:12:23.380 has obviously been banned

00:12:24.260 for national security

00:12:25.160 related reasons

00:12:26.140 but I also do believe

00:12:27.140 that there might be

00:12:28.040 some room

00:12:28.480 for an extended ban

00:12:29.680 onto other

00:12:30.260 traditional

00:12:31.020 Western media

00:12:32.100 because frankly

00:12:32.800 look if this is

00:12:33.600 what they're able

00:12:33.960 to do with Netflix

00:12:34.740 what else can

00:12:35.900 some of those

00:12:36.300 employees can do

00:12:36.940 but it's a story

00:12:38.600 that I don't think

00:12:39.380 has come out yet

00:12:40.000 so we'll wait

00:12:40.820 and see what

00:12:41.380 following actions

00:12:43.260 will occur

00:12:44.140 but man

00:12:45.740 I mean Ottawa

00:12:47.940 is getting a little bit lazy

00:12:48.880 that's all I can say.

00:12:51.040 Yeah Waleed 1.00

00:12:51.320 there was something

00:12:51.780 I wanted to ask you

00:12:52.520 and I'm gonna

00:12:52.960 self-incriminate

00:12:54.420 a bit here

00:12:54.840 because I just want

00:12:55.900 your opinion

00:12:56.740 on whether you think

00:12:57.460 the ban was effective

00:12:58.140 because

00:12:58.520 and this is what I'll say

00:12:59.480 when I was like 12

00:13:00.700 I went to my mom's office

00:13:01.800 for her bringing

00:13:03.320 a kid to work day

00:13:03.880 or something

00:13:04.260 I don't know

00:13:04.600 why I was there

00:13:05.100 and she had

00:13:06.560 her office did 0.76

00:13:07.600 like a blocker

00:13:08.640 on Facebook

00:13:09.080 and all these things

00:13:09.780 and I was a 12 year old kid

00:13:10.880 and I bypassed it

00:13:11.700 in like two seconds

00:13:12.380 using a proxy

00:13:13.080 you could easily

00:13:13.920 do the same

00:13:14.400 with a VPN

00:13:14.900 on any of your devices

00:13:15.900 I mean it's so simple

00:13:16.940 these are adults

00:13:17.740 grown adults

00:13:18.380 I'm pretty sure

00:13:18.880 they could figure this out

00:13:19.820 if a 12 year old

00:13:20.920 little nerdy kid

00:13:21.540 like me

00:13:21.960 could have done it

00:13:23.240 so yeah

00:13:23.560 do you think

00:13:23.940 it'll actually

00:13:24.460 be effective

00:13:25.540 or are they just

00:13:26.040 all gonna be like

00:13:26.460 ah pay five bucks

00:13:27.540 a month for the VPN

00:13:28.260 I'll just

00:13:28.920 bill the taxpayer

00:13:29.880 for that anyways

00:13:30.680 well frankly

00:13:34.140 it depends on

00:13:34.680 what the logistics

00:13:35.240 are looking like

00:13:35.840 I actually think

00:13:36.460 there's a great tie

00:13:37.360 on this issue

00:13:38.420 compared

00:13:38.900 tying into the issue

00:13:40.520 of work from home

00:13:41.680 because this is

00:13:42.860 happening at the office

00:13:43.820 we're not looking

00:13:44.980 at what's happening

00:13:45.480 at home

00:13:45.980 during office hours

00:13:47.700 while employees

00:13:48.920 are meant to work

00:13:49.560 because obviously

00:13:50.500 they're given

00:13:51.100 laptops and devices

00:13:52.720 that are property

00:13:53.400 of the government of Canada

00:13:54.260 which can have

00:13:55.520 trackable features

00:13:56.880 of course

00:13:57.400 to be able

00:13:58.000 to understand

00:13:58.480 exactly what they're doing

00:13:59.460 and have some level

00:14:01.280 of idea

00:14:01.840 of what their productivity is

00:14:03.260 but usually

00:14:04.360 if they're at the office

00:14:05.560 they may be using

00:14:06.280 a kind of internal

00:14:07.700 internet service

00:14:08.800 much better

00:14:09.400 to be much better monitored

00:14:10.800 so with a VPN involved

00:14:13.200 yes you can bypass

00:14:14.340 the blockade

00:14:15.660 in front of them

00:14:16.300 but can you bypass

00:14:17.640 the monitoring systems

00:14:18.940 can you bypass

00:14:19.640 other features

00:14:20.960 of accountability

00:14:21.560 that I think

00:14:22.740 is a very interesting

00:14:23.500 IT question

00:14:24.460 to have

00:14:25.160 or put towards

00:14:26.120 the government

00:14:26.560 on this story

00:14:27.580 I would love to follow up

00:14:28.620 with any department

00:14:30.200 if I'd be willing

00:14:30.840 to answer that question

00:14:31.740 because I want to understand

00:14:32.720 if this is part

00:14:34.080 of the context

00:14:34.620 as to why they've

00:14:35.360 enforced this ban

00:14:36.180 then what will they do

00:14:37.500 to continue addressing

00:14:38.340 that very same context

00:14:39.340 because it isn't just

00:14:40.100 about the fact

00:14:40.620 that Netflix

00:14:41.260 has never been

00:14:41.920 professionally beneficial

00:14:42.640 to the federal government

00:14:43.840 bureaucracy

00:14:45.200 it's never been

00:14:46.200 so we know that

00:14:47.340 they've told us

00:14:47.900 that last fall

00:14:48.580 now this is coming out

00:14:49.860 this is really the truth

00:14:50.980 how we're going to address

00:14:52.140 this beyond just this ban

00:14:53.720 what else can be done

00:14:55.080 and of course

00:14:55.800 what else could be banned

00:14:56.560 as I mentioned before

00:14:57.720 so I'm kind of curious

00:14:59.680 to know if this can also tie

00:15:01.100 into the whole

00:15:02.400 future outlook

00:15:03.580 of the work from home

00:15:04.880 hybrid system

00:15:05.640 because once you detach

00:15:06.900 from the office

00:15:07.920 you're on your own

00:15:08.900 home internet

00:15:09.400 you're on your

00:15:10.060 you have much more

00:15:11.180 I think flexibility

00:15:12.440 to hide things away

00:15:13.420 you don't even have to

00:15:14.280 use your work device

00:15:15.040 frankly

00:15:15.360 and that's the thing

00:15:16.000 people nowadays

00:15:16.980 have two or three laptops

00:15:18.540 per head

00:15:19.760 or per capita

00:15:20.820 at home

00:15:21.320 so it isn't like

00:15:22.520 they don't have

00:15:22.980 a second device

00:15:23.580 to work off them

00:15:24.320 so if that's the nature

00:15:25.340 if that's the climate

00:15:26.240 or that's the culture

00:15:27.300 at the bureaucracy now

00:15:29.220 then frankly

00:15:29.960 my hope for

00:15:31.300 anything but cuts

00:15:32.700 and anything but scrutiny

00:15:33.780 is second to none

00:15:36.120 I didn't even know

00:15:39.180 that Netflix

00:15:39.780 had 3,000 hours

00:15:40.880 worth of content

00:15:41.700 that's a lot

00:15:44.180 they probably have

00:15:44.580 like 3 million hours

00:15:45.600 worth of content now

00:15:46.440 yeah

00:15:46.900 I suppose

00:15:47.780 is there any information

00:15:48.780 from what they're watching

00:15:49.740 like are they just watching

00:15:50.800 like the same episode

00:15:51.740 of Friends

00:15:52.220 over and over again

00:15:53.200 this guy re-watched

00:15:54.860 Suits nine times

00:15:55.880 oh my god

00:15:57.600 watching it once

00:15:58.880 feels like watching it twice

00:16:00.060 that's how I feel

00:16:00.880 about that series

00:16:01.560 but that's a different story

00:16:02.840 so sticking with the federal government

00:16:07.280 but moving over to terrorists

00:16:10.360 instead of video streaming

00:16:12.200 yeah we saw some things

00:16:13.940 come out with

00:16:14.720 the Liberal Public Safety Minister

00:16:16.560 Gary Anandasangri there

00:16:18.040 you wrote about this

00:16:19.060 what was going on

00:16:20.500 in short

00:16:22.600 Gary is someone

00:16:24.300 that has been very involved

00:16:26.180 with the Sri Lankan diaspora

00:16:27.540 and in Sri Lanka

00:16:29.520 for a significant period

00:16:32.360 in the 80s

00:16:33.020 90s

00:16:33.760 and even early 2000s

00:16:35.340 civil war

00:16:36.200 has ravaged the country

00:16:37.520 and military groups

00:16:38.920 that are designated

00:16:39.580 as terrorist groups

00:16:40.500 have been part

00:16:41.320 and parcel of that

00:16:42.180 so what he did

00:16:43.880 is

00:16:44.140 there are members

00:16:45.340 of those groups

00:16:46.140 including the

00:16:47.520 Tamil

00:16:48.380 or you can call them

00:16:49.780 the Tamil Tigers

00:16:50.540 or Liberation

00:16:51.560 Organization

00:16:52.540 I think the full name

00:16:54.360 is Sri Lanka

00:16:55.000 Lanka's Tamil Tigers

00:16:56.300 that group

00:16:57.860 is a designated terrorist group

00:16:59.040 by over 35 countries

00:17:00.200 including Canada

00:17:01.080 since 2006

00:17:02.040 this group is actually responsible

00:17:04.440 and I never thought about this

00:17:05.840 I never heard of this before

00:17:07.660 but

00:17:07.940 they were responsible

00:17:09.160 for pioneering the use

00:17:10.800 of suicide vests

00:17:12.420 in insurgency in combat

00:17:14.320 I would have always think

00:17:15.320 it was probably Al-Qaeda

00:17:16.240 or ISIS

00:17:16.820 but I think they've popularized it

00:17:18.840 but I don't think they

00:17:19.500 they pioneered it

00:17:20.700 so give credit where credit is due

00:17:22.400 but

00:17:22.680 there was a member of this group

00:17:24.340 someone who admitted

00:17:25.500 to be a member of this group

00:17:26.820 that had spoken

00:17:27.980 to the Border Services Agency

00:17:30.520 and admitted to be part

00:17:31.800 of this group

00:17:32.200 now

00:17:32.380 he did admit to committing

00:17:33.480 any acts of violence

00:17:34.460 at least that's what

00:17:35.360 his testimony says

00:17:36.300 he said he was a member

00:17:37.520 of the group

00:17:37.880 handing out flyers

00:17:38.740 and this member

00:17:40.040 along with a few other members

00:17:41.220 but specifically this case

00:17:42.600 which was brought

00:17:43.140 to the Global News

00:17:43.880 which then took a round

00:17:45.600 and made circles the media

00:17:46.860 Gary wrote a letter

00:17:49.080 on his behalf

00:17:50.180 doing some charity work

00:17:51.420 with some Tamil

00:17:52.500 Sri Lankan diaspora organizations

00:17:54.120 trying to support his case

00:17:55.820 to remain in Canada

00:17:57.980 and that letter

00:17:59.640 is something

00:18:00.460 that probably contradicts

00:18:01.640 obviously contradicts

00:18:03.040 rather

00:18:03.260 the statement

00:18:04.820 of his office

00:18:05.620 of public safety minister

00:18:06.880 he's sticking up

00:18:07.820 for the terrorists

00:18:08.520 trying to convince

00:18:09.660 our security authorities

00:18:10.920 to allow him in

00:18:11.840 trying to bypass

00:18:13.020 the security apparatus

00:18:14.340 through giving

00:18:16.060 whatever credibility

00:18:17.320 his name has

00:18:17.940 and that letter

00:18:18.540 the last series

00:18:19.600 or the last letter

00:18:20.680 he issued

00:18:21.120 in that case

00:18:21.920 was as early as 2023

00:18:23.960 when he was a sworn

00:18:25.720 member of cabinet

00:18:26.500 now I'm not sure

00:18:27.200 what his portfolio was

00:18:28.140 but now

00:18:28.880 or ever since

00:18:29.640 he's become

00:18:30.000 public safety minister

00:18:30.860 that scrutiny

00:18:32.100 has been ever more

00:18:33.200 bright on him

00:18:33.700 and I think it's

00:18:34.600 well deserved

00:18:35.120 to thank me

00:18:35.500 because I mean

00:18:36.320 this is ridiculous

00:18:37.260 I don't know

00:18:37.900 how many other people

00:18:38.580 in the liberal cabinet

00:18:39.620 have this kind of

00:18:40.780 you know

00:18:41.440 stinking food in them

00:18:43.320 really

00:18:43.820 I mean

00:18:44.180 it's the most ironic thing

00:18:46.080 the public safety minister

00:18:47.240 is someone

00:18:47.640 who's sticking up

00:18:48.400 for people

00:18:48.900 coming into Canada

00:18:50.220 it's one thing

00:18:50.960 to think about terrorists

00:18:51.900 and have a view

00:18:52.720 about the terrorist group

00:18:53.520 in another part of the world

00:18:54.580 but to try to vouch

00:18:55.800 for that person

00:18:56.300 to come into Canada

00:18:57.160 I really think

00:18:58.580 this is something

00:18:59.220 that has to bring

00:19:00.860 about a resignation

00:19:01.440 at some point

00:19:02.120 really

00:19:03.280 you think

00:19:03.620 it should bring

00:19:04.700 about a resignation

00:19:05.440 I don't know

00:19:07.360 too Carney's talk

00:19:08.740 has been so far

00:19:10.080 I think Carney's

00:19:10.660 back to him

00:19:11.160 on the record

00:19:11.660 I haven't seen

00:19:12.320 what he said

00:19:12.860 about this case

00:19:13.480 in particular

00:19:13.940 but I have said

00:19:15.160 I've seen him

00:19:15.700 defend him in the past

00:19:16.560 when it came

00:19:16.920 to the whole scandal

00:19:17.800 with him

00:19:18.300 and you know

00:19:19.800 not knowing anything

00:19:20.560 about guns

00:19:21.100 and gun licenses

00:19:22.320 and the things

00:19:24.340 that gun owners

00:19:24.940 have to go through

00:19:25.500 in order to have guns

00:19:26.220 in Canada

00:19:26.560 that was a story

00:19:27.300 we covered

00:19:27.640 I think last week

00:19:28.440 on Off the Record

00:19:29.560 so our viewers

00:19:30.580 can go back

00:19:30.940 and watch that episode

00:19:31.660 but I think

00:19:33.780 the public

00:19:34.380 will put some pressure

00:19:35.260 I think there will be

00:19:35.960 some lobbies

00:19:36.700 and some concerned

00:19:38.000 Canadians

00:19:38.640 that will definitely

00:19:39.440 bring this about

00:19:40.280 with their MPs

00:19:41.400 but I don't know

00:19:42.480 if Carney's the one

00:19:43.220 to pull the plug

00:19:43.900 without something

00:19:45.480 biting him in the butt 0.99

00:19:46.520 yeah I don't think

00:19:48.100 accountability

00:19:48.700 has historically

00:19:50.580 been something

00:19:51.180 that liberals

00:19:51.920 generate on their own

00:19:53.440 but we have seen

00:19:54.400 that public backlash

00:19:56.780 for example

00:19:57.900 just in relation

00:19:58.500 to this Netflix thing

00:19:59.400 once this all

00:19:59.920 got revealed

00:20:00.320 right

00:20:00.540 public backlash

00:20:01.880 can certainly

00:20:02.380 have an effect

00:20:03.140 on the liberals

00:20:04.340 and sway the way

00:20:06.340 they make their decisions

00:20:07.440 so I wouldn't say

00:20:08.660 that without public backlash

00:20:10.100 anything would happen

00:20:11.120 but who knows

00:20:11.640 if people get mad enough

00:20:12.920 you know

00:20:13.680 it could definitely

00:20:14.360 move the needle

00:20:15.260 yeah

00:20:16.580 what did you think

00:20:17.560 Alex

00:20:17.980 just

00:20:19.280 I'm not as familiar

00:20:20.500 with the story

00:20:21.040 as I probably should

00:20:21.880 because I also wrote

00:20:22.540 an article on it

00:20:23.260 but I'm just curious

00:20:24.880 did he

00:20:26.040 did he ever get citizenship

00:20:27.360 I don't believe so

00:20:32.480 actually

00:20:32.880 and that's

00:20:33.360 perhaps a sign

00:20:35.580 of some part

00:20:36.980 of the regime

00:20:37.820 our security regime

00:20:39.340 working

00:20:39.940 yeah

00:20:40.960 I was going to say

00:20:41.700 that seems like a rare win

00:20:43.040 for either Mark Miller

00:20:44.160 or Sean Fraser

00:20:45.000 like a very rare win

00:20:47.220 I want to give

00:20:49.640 pin the credit

00:20:50.200 on them

00:20:50.560 frankly

00:20:50.880 I'll pin the credit

00:20:51.580 on the pages

00:20:52.900 in case

00:20:53.740 themselves

00:20:54.100 probably

00:20:54.540 yeah

00:20:55.240 the Ministry

00:20:55.800 of Immigration

00:20:56.360 probably has

00:20:57.100 at least one

00:20:57.720 or two

00:20:58.220 competent bureaucrats

00:20:59.340 in there somewhere

00:20:59.960 so

00:21:00.780 somewhere

00:21:02.280 somewhere

00:21:03.180 buried deep

00:21:04.420 in the pile

00:21:06.480 moving to a different

00:21:09.660 public organization

00:21:12.300 let's say

00:21:12.900 I mean

00:21:13.300 look

00:21:13.640 the list

00:21:14.580 of whistleblowers

00:21:16.060 exposing the CBC

00:21:17.720 and its bias

00:21:18.640 and ideological

00:21:19.860 preferences

00:21:21.820 let's say

00:21:22.460 just keeps on growing

00:21:23.560 for example

00:21:24.740 another former

00:21:26.180 recent CBC reporter

00:21:27.520 as you can see

00:21:28.700 wrote a

00:21:29.640 True North

00:21:30.160 article there

00:21:31.880 and he discussed

00:21:33.240 the censorship

00:21:34.800 the bias

00:21:35.400 and ideological

00:21:35.960 gatekeeping

00:21:36.540 that is going on

00:21:37.560 inside of Canada's

00:21:38.500 state broadcaster

00:21:39.340 echoing very similar

00:21:40.980 allegations

00:21:41.500 made by

00:21:42.840 previous

00:21:43.860 whistleblowers 1.00

00:21:44.560 this most recent

00:21:46.040 one was Jason

00:21:46.660 Unrau

00:21:47.080 who worked at

00:21:47.780 CBC

00:21:48.140 and Yellowknife

00:21:48.760 in Ottawa

00:21:49.180 and one of the

00:21:50.860 things he wrote

00:21:51.620 in his True North

00:21:52.240 column there

00:21:52.720 was quote

00:21:53.340 the CBC's culture

00:21:54.480 of ideological

00:21:55.200 conformity

00:21:55.900 and censorship

00:21:56.560 up close

00:21:57.580 that he witnessed

00:21:58.200 it

00:21:58.420 and that it

00:21:59.140 would shock

00:21:59.800 most Canadians

00:22:00.720 but perhaps

00:22:01.820 less so

00:22:02.760 and less so

00:22:03.260 with these

00:22:03.960 more whistleblowers

00:22:04.660 who keep coming

00:22:05.300 forward

00:22:05.640 and kind of

00:22:06.320 pointing a

00:22:07.800 spotlight on

00:22:08.420 what the inner

00:22:09.340 workings of the

00:22:09.960 CBC are

00:22:10.580 from an employee

00:22:12.680 culture perspective

00:22:13.760 for example

00:22:15.200 Unrau said

00:22:15.820 that CBC's

00:22:16.660 editorial culture

00:22:17.520 was all about

00:22:18.700 stifling dissenting

00:22:19.580 views

00:22:20.020 and staff

00:22:20.860 were even

00:22:21.180 punished

00:22:21.640 for questioning

00:22:22.460 any narrative

00:22:24.140 that was ongoing

00:22:25.040 like he claims

00:22:26.380 for example

00:22:27.260 stories that were

00:22:28.580 skeptical in any

00:22:29.380 way of climate

00:22:29.860 change or

00:22:30.360 indigenous narratives

00:22:31.160 were just

00:22:31.660 completely shut

00:22:32.320 down by woke

00:22:32.860 managers

00:22:33.280 he referenced

00:22:35.680 at one point

00:22:36.480 bringing on

00:22:37.280 MPP Randy

00:22:38.760 Hillier

00:22:39.180 and the manager

00:22:40.860 just said

00:22:41.280 he's crazy

00:22:41.780 that's it

00:22:42.220 he can't come

00:22:42.780 like that's all

00:22:43.760 it was

00:22:44.080 there was no

00:22:44.440 reasoning given

00:22:44.980 aside from

00:22:45.500 the quote

00:22:46.180 crazy

00:22:46.740 and of

00:22:47.900 course this

00:22:48.260 follows very

00:22:49.060 very very

00:22:49.680 shortly after

00:22:50.380 we saw

00:22:51.640 Travis Danraj

00:22:52.520 resign very

00:22:53.920 publicly from

00:22:54.540 the CBC

00:22:55.060 and the

00:22:56.160 claims he

00:22:56.580 was making

00:22:57.080 which were

00:22:58.340 that he was

00:22:58.900 forced out

00:22:59.440 after raising

00:23:00.240 concerns about

00:23:00.920 tokenism and

00:23:02.120 political bias

00:23:02.960 and then

00:23:04.360 there's other

00:23:05.420 examples for

00:23:06.700 example from

00:23:07.180 2022 it was

00:23:08.260 Tara Henley

00:23:09.100 who was a

00:23:09.920 former producer

00:23:10.520 and she

00:23:10.840 similarly

00:23:11.340 accused the

00:23:12.340 CBC of

00:23:12.940 promoting a

00:23:13.680 radical political

00:23:14.500 agenda even

00:23:15.780 requiring staff

00:23:16.540 to racially

00:23:17.160 profile guests

00:23:18.140 just to meet

00:23:18.720 diversity targets

00:23:19.720 and she

00:23:20.680 described a

00:23:21.300 workplace where

00:23:21.900 certain viewpoints

00:23:22.740 again were

00:23:23.300 off limits

00:23:23.880 completely and

00:23:24.920 critical thinking

00:23:25.640 was discouraged

00:23:26.900 something Unruh

00:23:28.000 raised was he

00:23:29.140 said look

00:23:30.760 people want to

00:23:31.300 be at the

00:23:31.600 CBC because

00:23:32.320 the pay is

00:23:32.980 phenomenal and

00:23:33.900 outside of that

00:23:35.100 though it may

00:23:36.880 not be as

00:23:37.720 good as it

00:23:38.260 looks it's all

00:23:39.700 about you know

00:23:40.300 towing the

00:23:40.880 ideological line

00:23:41.680 that's a quote

00:23:42.080 he used I

00:23:42.640 mean yeah do

00:23:43.220 you guys think

00:23:43.840 the CBC are

00:23:44.500 going to face

00:23:44.900 backlash with all

00:23:45.880 these whistleblowers

00:23:46.560 coming out or

00:23:47.320 they kind of

00:23:48.240 just they can do

00:23:48.800 what they want

00:23:49.240 because as we've

00:23:49.880 seen despite

00:23:51.200 them not meeting

00:23:52.220 performance targets

00:23:53.020 despite their

00:23:53.580 performance plummeting

00:23:54.540 Carney recently

00:23:55.740 pledged more

00:23:56.380 money to them so

00:23:57.120 it seems like

00:23:57.640 they're almost

00:23:58.260 immune from

00:23:59.080 public backlash

00:24:00.340 well I think

00:24:02.100 that they

00:24:02.380 certainly should

00:24:03.260 as somebody who

00:24:05.520 is an outsider

00:24:06.340 who went into

00:24:07.540 journalism kind of

00:24:08.320 later in life

00:24:09.100 my background was

00:24:10.100 in a different

00:24:10.540 field entirely

00:24:11.500 I don't think

00:24:12.560 I'm sharing

00:24:13.260 any kind of

00:24:14.020 trade secrets

00:24:14.680 here when I

00:24:15.240 say that

00:24:15.680 sometimes you

00:24:16.500 know when

00:24:16.780 you're in the

00:24:17.720 newsroom and

00:24:19.420 you submit a

00:24:20.160 story it gets

00:24:20.880 spiked and the

00:24:21.900 reason that it

00:24:22.340 gets spiked is

00:24:23.100 because well in

00:24:24.460 the case of our

00:24:24.960 organization we

00:24:25.680 say well maybe

00:24:26.040 our readers aren't

00:24:26.880 going to be

00:24:27.140 interested in that

00:24:27.880 we cater to a

00:24:28.760 kind of a

00:24:29.100 specific audience

00:24:30.040 the CBC though

00:24:31.640 they're a

00:24:32.140 taxpayer funded

00:24:32.860 organization and

00:24:33.860 their mandate is

00:24:34.840 to present news

00:24:35.900 to everyone to

00:24:37.620 all taxpayers

00:24:38.340 regardless of

00:24:39.100 what their

00:24:39.380 ideology happens to

00:24:40.560 be I mean we

00:24:41.540 don't take any

00:24:42.100 taxpayer subsidies

00:24:43.160 media subsidies

00:24:44.120 specifically so we

00:24:45.620 can kind of pick

00:24:46.240 and choose what we

00:24:47.020 want to put out

00:24:47.820 there and we

00:24:48.680 can do so without

00:24:49.300 having any kind of

00:24:50.080 moral apprehension

00:24:50.880 about it but the

00:24:52.020 CDC is obviously

00:24:52.840 very different I

00:24:53.900 mean taxpayers pay

00:24:56.060 their salaries whether

00:24:57.020 they're conservative

00:24:57.660 or liberal and so

00:24:58.600 they I believe have

00:24:59.520 an obligation to

00:25:00.340 present the news

00:25:01.160 fairly objectively

00:25:02.780 and without an

00:25:04.340 ideological bend and

00:25:05.840 I think that

00:25:06.760 Canadians are and

00:25:08.500 should be outraged

00:25:09.780 yeah just picking up

00:25:11.440 on something you

00:25:11.920 just said there

00:25:12.340 Alex it reminded

00:25:12.940 me because I

00:25:13.400 wrote a recent

00:25:13.840 article of Smith

00:25:14.560 where she was

00:25:15.560 essentially blasting

00:25:17.500 the legacy media

00:25:18.760 for bias and she

00:25:19.680 cited Dyn Raj's

00:25:20.740 recent resignation

00:25:22.600 and she said

00:25:23.560 something along the

00:25:24.100 lines I don't have

00:25:24.540 the quote here so

00:25:25.100 I'm paraphrasing but

00:25:25.760 she said something

00:25:26.320 along the lines of

00:25:27.220 these legacy media

00:25:28.120 decided they didn't

00:25:29.440 want conservative

00:25:30.020 viewers they

00:25:30.860 decided they didn't

00:25:31.600 want conservative

00:25:32.120 content and

00:25:32.700 surprise surprise

00:25:33.420 conservative viewers

00:25:34.940 and listeners went

00:25:35.700 elsewhere aka

00:25:36.560 independent media so

00:25:38.380 yeah Waleed what 0.99

00:25:39.980 do you think about

00:25:40.480 all these whistle

00:25:41.140 blowers coming out

00:25:41.900 against the CBC do

00:25:42.960 you think for

00:25:43.480 example that it's

00:25:44.300 the list will

00:25:45.780 continue to grow and

00:25:46.560 all these people are

00:25:47.280 going to talk about

00:25:47.780 the CBC I mean I

00:25:48.900 don't know

00:25:49.220 look I think we've

00:25:51.500 already observed one

00:25:52.240 thing which is the

00:25:52.980 fact that independent

00:25:53.740 media like us have

00:25:55.760 grown now that's

00:25:56.980 based on the audience

00:25:57.840 and that's basically

00:25:58.440 consumer market there

00:25:59.620 are more people

00:26:00.160 willing to invest

00:26:03.100 engage read

00:26:05.020 independent media not

00:26:06.420 just us but a long

00:26:07.860 list of outlets and

00:26:09.740 that population has

00:26:10.700 grown over the years

00:26:11.960 what I'm looking at

00:26:13.600 right now with this

00:26:14.520 situation with Travis

00:26:15.760 and others in the past

00:26:17.460 and perhaps others in

00:26:18.320 the future is the

00:26:19.360 talent pipeline is

00:26:20.900 those talented

00:26:21.660 journalist graduates or

00:26:23.100 those talented people

00:26:24.140 that weren't

00:26:24.720 necessarily in the

00:26:25.640 field of journalism at

00:26:26.440 an earlier stage and

00:26:27.280 people like my

00:26:28.160 colleague Alex that

00:26:29.120 had gathered other

00:26:30.740 experiences that brought

00:26:31.780 them into this field I

00:26:33.840 think those kinds of

00:26:35.320 folks like Travis

00:26:36.280 themselves will find

00:26:37.080 themselves in

00:26:37.780 alternative or

00:26:39.020 independent media and

00:26:40.920 that will change

00:26:41.460 the landscape not only

00:26:42.460 for viewers but also

00:26:44.100 for producers and

00:26:45.480 reporters and that

00:26:46.700 way the credibility

00:26:48.280 questions about you

00:26:49.780 know where's your best

00:26:51.720 outlet I mean or who

00:26:53.180 is your best talk show

00:26:55.420 or host or whomever I

00:26:56.940 mean the talent pipeline

00:26:58.220 is no longer going to

00:26:59.620 be headed towards the

00:27:00.980 CBC or the mainstream

00:27:02.280 media the talent pipeline

00:27:03.760 is going to be a bit

00:27:04.880 more balanced across

00:27:05.840 the board yeah people

00:27:07.280 will be looking for

00:27:07.800 the best paycheck but

00:27:08.860 people also look for

00:27:09.660 stability editorial

00:27:11.220 freedom and the

00:27:12.440 ability to express

00:27:12.940 themselves as they

00:27:13.560 wish I mean this is

00:27:14.580 what's going to happen

00:27:15.120 with the CBC and this

00:27:16.800 is something we have to

00:27:17.340 consider ourselves as

00:27:19.580 the fact that there

00:27:20.160 will be some that will

00:27:21.180 leave because simply

00:27:22.900 they're conservatives

00:27:24.080 and they can't be

00:27:25.240 tolerated under that

00:27:26.160 banner and then

00:27:27.140 there'll be some that

00:27:27.620 will leave because of

00:27:28.840 some other issues who

00:27:29.720 knows I mean sometimes

00:27:30.860 the left doesn't like the

00:27:31.800 CBC much either believe

00:27:33.440 it or not or I mean

00:27:34.560 the left I mean a real

00:27:35.560 hard left so there'll

00:27:36.660 be a point in time when

00:27:37.380 CBC will probably piss

00:27:38.700 off enough people to

00:27:39.940 really really lose its

00:27:41.480 public leadership to the

00:27:42.460 point where they can't

00:27:43.520 return to the same level

00:27:44.560 of operations or the

00:27:45.460 same level financial

00:27:46.160 you know sustainability

00:27:48.000 and therefore I think

00:27:49.600 we'll see some real

00:27:50.180 change from that point

00:27:51.180 so I think journalists

00:27:53.340 graduates young talent

00:27:54.760 older talent looking for

00:27:57.240 a new role I don't

00:27:58.920 think they'll look into

00:27:59.520 CBC the same way 0.79

00:28:00.540 because I think this

00:28:01.300 puts that on the

00:28:01.980 reputation not only as

00:28:03.220 a media organization

00:28:03.960 but simply just as an

00:28:05.080 employer the way you

00:28:06.140 treat your employees

00:28:06.860 your working conditions

00:28:08.180 Alex I'll ask you

00:28:10.220 something because I've

00:28:11.040 reported on this

00:28:11.900 extensively in the past

00:28:13.260 but despite the CBC

00:28:14.640 receiving what is it

00:28:15.960 now over 1.4 billion

00:28:17.280 dollars annually I've

00:28:19.100 looked at their annual

00:28:19.760 reports and and I'm

00:28:21.240 pretty sure there have

00:28:21.720 been times where they've

00:28:22.400 claimed a deficit I

00:28:23.280 mean it's it's

00:28:23.800 unbelievable could your

00:28:24.860 expenses be so high that

00:28:26.060 you're spending more than

00:28:26.820 you make it at 1.4

00:28:28.500 billion dollars but yeah

00:28:29.360 I just wanted to ask if

00:28:30.900 you think if the if the

00:28:32.900 how the CBC might change

00:28:34.320 if they lost federal

00:28:35.380 government funding in any

00:28:36.320 way maybe not like I'm

00:28:37.280 not saying they lose all

00:28:38.120 1.4 billion but say they

00:28:39.360 went down to 500 million

00:28:40.300 a year what what what

00:28:41.720 would that do to the CBC

00:28:42.920 as an organization and

00:28:44.260 and maybe I guess

00:28:45.180 Canada's media landscape

00:28:46.180 as a whole I don't think

00:28:47.880 that they would survive

00:28:48.760 frankly that the same

00:28:50.340 thing applies to chorus

00:28:51.320 entertainment that's the

00:28:52.360 parent company for global

00:28:53.540 they're they're basically

00:28:54.520 dependent entirely on media

00:28:56.560 subsidies for their

00:28:57.420 survival because these

00:28:58.340 companies you have to

00:28:59.060 remember even if you laid

00:29:00.060 off half of the staff you

00:29:01.520 still typically have to pay

00:29:02.560 severance so so the

00:29:04.720 operating costs for these

00:29:05.720 organizations are enormous

00:29:07.220 and it's really hard to

00:29:08.480 downsize an organization if

00:29:10.040 you have an unlimited amount

00:29:10.940 of money it's actually

00:29:11.840 obviously very easy to

00:29:13.760 oversize an organization but

00:29:15.680 downsizing is really really

00:29:17.120 tricky and it's very very

00:29:18.780 expensive and also is there

00:29:21.180 is there anybody out there

00:29:22.400 looking to buy any of CBC's

00:29:24.200 assets like a lot of their

00:29:26.480 media and Pierre Polyev say

00:29:28.420 he was going to do that to

00:29:29.400 turn it into housing or he

00:29:30.880 just not not he wouldn't

00:29:31.780 have to buy them I guess

00:29:32.480 yeah yeah he wanted to turn

00:29:34.200 the CBC headquarters into

00:29:35.540 housing yeah which I

00:29:36.580 actually think is a great

00:29:37.360 idea personally I mean we do

00:29:38.580 need more housing and we

00:29:39.520 probably need fewer

00:29:40.720 government subsidized media

00:29:42.140 companies because as

00:29:44.180 relevant said this when we

00:29:45.260 were in in Montreal for the

00:29:47.100 leadership debate and there

00:29:48.060 was that big meltdown in the

00:29:50.360 journalism room he said

00:29:51.360 these days everybody has a

00:29:52.800 phone and everybody with a

00:29:54.680 phone has a camera so just

00:29:56.100 about everybody can be a

00:29:57.060 journalist frankly like you

00:29:58.520 don't need to go to

00:29:59.080 journalism school to be a

00:30:00.120 journalist and a lot of

00:30:02.520 people who didn't go to

00:30:03.260 journalism and my journalism

00:30:04.480 school in my opinion are

00:30:05.480 great journalists and so

00:30:08.040 CBC has caution from all

00:30:10.060 angles and if it didn't

00:30:11.720 receive government subsidies

00:30:12.820 it didn't receive

00:30:13.700 government funding there's

00:30:15.340 no way that it would

00:30:16.060 survive I mean virtually

00:30:17.020 nobody watches CBC anymore

00:30:18.660 almost nobody everybody is

00:30:20.920 unplugged from cable

00:30:21.760 generally and that's one of

00:30:22.840 their biggest mediums so

00:30:24.600 yeah I'll comment on that

00:30:26.260 quickly we've seen critics

00:30:28.440 they love to critics of

00:30:30.600 right-wing media

00:30:31.340 organizations specifically

00:30:32.340 love to say oh you're not a

00:30:33.360 real journalist where's your

00:30:34.260 degree it's like first of all

00:30:35.780 I do have a degree I did go

00:30:37.660 to school for journalism and

00:30:38.780 one thing we learned about

00:30:39.700 extensively was citizen

00:30:40.740 journalism if you have a

00:30:41.700 phone if you've ever taken a

00:30:42.680 video and posted to an ex

00:30:43.840 posted to ex posted to

00:30:45.060 anything congratulations

00:30:45.820 you've conducted citizen

00:30:48.340 journalism you are a

00:30:49.300 journalist and I mean just

00:30:51.220 say that Alex like anyone

00:30:53.480 could be a journalist as you

00:30:54.460 said if you take a video and

00:30:55.760 it blows up online you've

00:30:57.260 just done journalism you've

00:30:58.980 created news congratulations

00:31:00.440 right like it really is that

00:31:02.360 simple anyone could be a

00:31:03.940 journalist if you have the

00:31:05.200 passion to create news

00:31:07.640 write stories tell people

00:31:09.240 what's happening right so

00:31:10.180 yeah I guess as more people

00:31:12.820 get phones which is

00:31:13.740 essentially everyone has a

00:31:14.580 phone their competition grows I

00:31:17.460 guess and especially when we

00:31:20.020 have social media platforms

00:31:21.720 like X where I don't want to

00:31:24.480 say views aren't dissented on

00:31:27.420 because they are as we saw

00:31:29.320 Melanie our colleagues account

00:31:31.380 got banned I think I don't know

00:31:32.760 why but in a way it's pretty

00:31:36.000 close to freedom of speech and

00:31:37.240 you can get all viewpoints on on

00:31:39.400 the platform despite there still

00:31:40.960 being a bit of problems it's

00:31:42.060 certainly nothing to the to

00:31:45.000 the levels of censorship that we

00:31:46.860 may have seen in the past with

00:31:47.960 with Facebook and stuff

00:31:48.960 especially around the was it the

00:31:52.440 2020 American election but

00:31:54.340 anyways I'm rambling on here

00:31:56.240 I still think doctors and

00:31:58.140 engineers should go to school

00:31:59.480 yeah yeah and and more

00:32:03.940 importantly than that not just go

00:32:05.100 to school be hired on merit not

00:32:06.460 because they have a certain skin

00:32:08.280 color because I mean I've talked

00:32:11.060 extensively about this too it's

00:32:12.280 like if DEI prevails then when

00:32:14.760 you walk into a doctor's office

00:32:15.940 and you see someone that might

00:32:18.060 be a DEI a DEI hire that's of

00:32:19.940 course the first thing that is

00:32:20.960 going to come into your mind is

00:32:21.740 this person even qualified I mean

00:32:22.960 it's it's worse for everyone the

00:32:24.780 consumers the employees

00:32:25.920 themselves I mean there's

00:32:27.760 nothing that could supersede and

00:32:30.400 and be improved on than merit

00:32:32.100 based hiring yeah I mean people

00:32:35.060 should be judged by the content of

00:32:36.780 their character not the color of

00:32:37.980 their skin of course and that I

00:32:39.960 think should also apply to people

00:32:41.440 who are applying for work and

00:32:43.640 media companies too they should be

00:32:44.880 judged by the quality of their

00:32:48.400 production not by government funding

00:32:52.400 they receive and especially when

00:32:54.900 independent outlets are competing

00:32:56.820 with an organization that receives

00:32:58.460 1.4 billion dollars a year and

00:33:00.600 independent outlets that receive no

00:33:02.520 government funding I mean talk about

00:33:04.640 David versus Goliath right there

00:33:06.920 right yeah no absolutely and I'll

00:33:11.680 just add one last thing from that

00:33:12.920 the leaders debate scrum it was

00:33:15.920 really interesting to me because the

00:33:18.260 independent media beat them all to

00:33:20.220 the front of the line so despite them

00:33:22.340 getting this you know billion dollar

00:33:24.180 head start from taxpayer subsidies

00:33:26.480 they still didn't bother to get out of

00:33:28.600 their chair and do their job when

00:33:30.680 push came to shove and I feel like that

00:33:32.020 really should have been the big story

00:33:33.340 rather than us all getting ejected

00:33:36.000 yeah but you did Alex and you got a

00:33:37.760 great question in so

00:33:38.720 thanks yeah we'll see if they'll ever

00:33:41.820 allow me back

00:33:42.600 I doubt it remember I was I was banned

00:33:46.300 from even going to to Carney's launch

00:33:48.260 party there I was escorted off the

00:33:49.660 premises so I mean I don't see that

00:33:51.520 changing but hey you never know I guess

00:33:52.920 no no I mean like if they don't let us

00:33:55.000 back I imagine that we'll probably just

00:33:56.640 take them to court again

00:33:57.560 you know because ultimately we have a

00:34:01.380 right to be there that's right yeah

00:34:02.500 and it's not the government's job to

00:34:03.780 decide who's a journalist and who isn't

00:34:06.220 well they think it is if you don't

00:34:07.680 receive taxpayer funds you can't be in

00:34:09.080 there hmm yeah which is quite

00:34:11.740 outrageous when you consider the fact

00:34:13.180 that receiving taxpayer funds makes

00:34:14.860 you more compromised and therefore less

00:34:16.520 credible so you would actually think

00:34:18.960 that you they would be prioritizing the

00:34:21.260 free speech rights of journalism

00:34:22.380 companies that aren't receiving

00:34:23.760 government subsidies because it means

00:34:25.680 that they're truly independent and

00:34:27.720 more likely therefore to tell the

00:34:28.920 truth

00:34:29.200 anyways my name is Isaac Lameru I'd

00:34:32.440 like to thank my colleagues Alex

00:34:33.400 Zoltan and Waleed Tamtam and

00:34:35.180 remember everything you heard today

00:34:36.380 was off the record

00:34:37.240 yeah Waleed you were in court today

00:34:42.880 right what happened there do you want

00:34:44.180 to just talk about that

00:34:44.800 it was a long it was a long long

00:34:53.060 series of nothing frankly I I the last

00:34:57.860 significant moment I can remember was

00:34:59.880 Chris Barber was having some internet

00:35:02.440 issues he went outside the house with

00:35:05.560 his phone camera in hand he went back

00:35:08.440 inside the house wasn't quick enough to

00:35:11.280 figure it out court recess lunch break I

00:35:14.740 mean it was a full show about how long

00:35:17.540 things can happen without anything moving

00:35:19.680 forward um but inconclusive thus far no

00:35:24.360 sentencing as of yet but the wheels are

00:35:26.780 just as turned slowly right I have an

00:35:29.140 update I know you got a run with it but

00:35:30.480 um September is the when we're going to

00:35:33.220 hear about the sentencing

00:35:34.140 September 7th yeah yes it's the 7th

00:35:37.780 remember that well that's like the

00:35:38.820 official sentencing date that's when I

00:35:40.620 thought that was supposed to be today

00:35:41.640 though so can they just push it back

00:35:42.980 again like how does this go no not

00:35:44.560 explicitly so so September 7th is

00:35:47.480 actually the forfeiture hearing for

00:35:49.620 Chris Barber and Big Red and then I

00:35:52.180 don't even think they've set the date

00:35:53.320 officially for the actual sentencing

00:35:54.940 which I believe will be in late

00:35:56.580 September it might be even without

00:35:58.600 filming we'll have to wait and see what

00:36:02.260 happens I'm interested to at least see

00:36:03.880 if the public discourse can have any

00:36:06.980 effect because obviously a lot of

00:36:08.540 people are very unhappy with what's

00:36:10.060 going on so far for these mischief

00:36:11.540 trials right yeah yeah it's pretty

00:36:15.260 outrageous

00:36:17.480 you

00:36:19.540 you

00:36:20.540 you

00:36:22.540 you

00:36:24.540 you

00:36:26.540 you

00:36:28.540 you

Juno News - July 25, 2025

All five players found not guilty in Hockey Canada trial

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