Juno News - July 25, 2025


All five players found not guilty in Hockey Canada trial


Episode Stats

Length

36 minutes

Words per Minute

185.46112

Word Count

6,771

Sentence Count

128

Misogynist Sentences

4

Hate Speech Sentences

6


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Yeah, guys, so there's been so much news coming in over the last few days.
00:00:03.240 It's been hard to even determine what to discuss here.
00:00:05.940 I mean, from big, huge national stories to sad stories like Hulk Hogan dying.
00:00:10.900 I mean, what has caught your eye over the last few days?
00:00:13.940 I mean, there's just so much.
00:00:14.940 It's almost an overload of news.
00:00:18.660 Yeah, I mean, Hulk Hogan and Ozzy Osbourne in the same week,
00:00:21.700 they both, in my mind anyway, seemed completely immortal.
00:00:25.080 And I suppose that their legends are, you know, even though they may be gone.
00:00:29.540 Yeah, I mean, if they're talked about for centuries to come, let's say,
00:00:33.020 then they are immortal in a way, you know.
00:00:34.980 They say there's, what's the saying?
00:00:37.860 You die twice when you pass away and when your name is spoken for the last time, right?
00:00:42.680 Like, that's how it goes.
00:00:46.060 What about you, Walid, anything stick out?
00:00:48.860 Yeah, well, you know, I'm not so big on the music industry, frankly,
00:00:52.200 but I know that Ozzy Osbourne is such a big name that you can hear about him wherever you are.
00:00:56.160 I mean, I saw a football club, his favorite football club in England, Hanson Villa,
00:01:00.480 gave him a tribute the other day.
00:01:02.420 So wherever you are, whether it's the sporting industry or in the music industry,
00:01:06.840 you know, talking about a big name, obviously,
00:01:08.620 and obviously the Hulk Hogan story is all over Twitter as well.
00:01:11.400 So sad to see lots of life always.
00:01:14.040 And, of course, big names and people that have probably a lot more influence
00:01:17.380 than you can realize sometimes.
00:01:19.140 So very sad to see.
00:01:20.680 Well, my name's Isaac Limer.
00:01:23.720 I'm here with my True North colleagues, Alex Zoltan, and Walid Tam Tam.
00:01:26.580 Let's hop into that first story right away.
00:01:32.600 So, obviously, some huge news coming out of this lengthy Hockey Canada hearing,
00:01:37.120 and Alex, trial here.
00:01:39.500 But long story short, all five players in the high-profile case have been found not guilty
00:01:45.680 after Ontario Superior Court Justice Maria Corocha delivered her ruling Thursday afternoon
00:01:51.640 in front of apparently a packed courtroom.
00:01:54.720 And, I mean, yeah.
00:01:56.300 Do you want to just take us through the case, Alex,
00:01:58.100 and maybe some of the public reactions as well?
00:02:00.860 Like, what's going on here?
00:02:03.080 Yeah, sure.
00:02:03.760 So there was actually five players that were defendants in the case.
00:02:07.520 They were all charged with one count of sexual assault.
00:02:11.540 One of the players, Michael McLeod, was charged with an additional offense,
00:02:15.140 which was party to an offense.
00:02:18.560 Basically, in layman's terms, what that means is that he was accused of aiding
00:02:21.840 and abetting other people in criminal activity.
00:02:24.700 It was turned into a judge trial as opposed to a trial by jury
00:02:28.660 after the highly unusual and, yeah, I guess to say just unusual dismissal of two separate juries.
00:02:36.400 We don't really need to go into why that happened,
00:02:39.380 although that's an interesting story in and of itself.
00:02:41.780 The judge was pretty brutal in offering her decision.
00:02:47.760 She called the key crown witness, which was the complainant.
00:02:52.100 She goes by the name EM.
00:02:53.580 Her real name is covered by a standard publication ban in these sort of cases.
00:02:57.020 The judge called her unreliable, inconsistent, and not credible.
00:03:04.240 So it was almost a scathing rebuke of the entire case.
00:03:07.980 And I had said online, you know, privately to many people
00:03:11.220 that I was actually surprised this trial even went to trial.
00:03:14.640 So I'm not terribly surprised by the acquittal,
00:03:17.640 but I am surprised by the unhinged reactions online.
00:03:21.020 A lot of people seem to think that they're still guilty
00:03:24.660 even though they were deemed not guilty.
00:03:27.100 I did have something to ask you about, Alex,
00:03:29.260 because I saw this online as well.
00:03:30.820 A few people asking this question about EM specifically.
00:03:33.620 Obviously, this trial, in short, ruined the careers,
00:03:37.060 at least for a temporary basis for these five NHL players.
00:03:40.120 So now do we get to find out who this girl is
00:03:42.680 and maybe can she suffer social consequences
00:03:45.580 of at least having put these people through this?
00:03:48.040 I mean, like, is her identity protected indefinitely?
00:03:51.140 Like, what's the rules there?
00:03:52.960 Yeah, so I do believe that her identity
00:03:54.800 is protected virtually indefinitely.
00:03:57.120 There's a few reasons for that.
00:03:58.580 In Canada, we believe in protecting complainants
00:04:01.660 and sexual assault trials so that we don't discourage
00:04:03.660 other people from bringing their cases forward.
00:04:06.520 That differs, obviously, from the system
00:04:08.720 that they have in the United States.
00:04:10.340 There are certain pros and cons in both directions,
00:04:13.720 depending on which approach that you take.
00:04:15.440 Neither one is without compromise.
00:04:16.660 In terms of whether her name will ever be released,
00:04:20.060 I mean, ultimately, I guess that's kind of up to her,
00:04:22.300 whether she wants to release her name or not.
00:04:24.420 Whether it should be released,
00:04:26.140 I actually kind of disagree in the sense
00:04:28.700 that I thought that she was credible.
00:04:31.760 She was inconsistent, but I did think that she was credible
00:04:34.300 in the sense that there was very little disagreement
00:04:36.420 about what occurred.
00:04:38.400 There was just a lot of disagreement
00:04:39.620 over whether what occurred was criminal or not.
00:04:42.520 Because what is immoral is not always criminal, right?
00:04:46.200 Or what is in bad taste is not always criminal.
00:04:49.280 And likewise, as we saw with Tamera Leach and Chris Barber,
00:04:52.100 what is illegal is not always immoral
00:04:54.060 in the eyes of the public.
00:04:55.660 So I actually found her probably more credible than the judge,
00:05:00.100 but the judge also identified a lot more inconsistencies than I did.
00:05:03.120 And I guess that's why she's a judge
00:05:04.360 and I'm just a bodily crime reporter.
00:05:07.440 Yeah, Waleed, were you paying any attention
00:05:09.400 to the Hockey Canada trial
00:05:10.740 or its subsequent, I guess, social reactions?
00:05:16.080 The trial was clearly headed in a certain direction.
00:05:18.280 So I was much more interested
00:05:19.340 about what the court of public opinion had to say.
00:05:22.420 Because obviously, you know,
00:05:23.560 we figured out very quickly
00:05:24.660 that all people were found out guilty.
00:05:26.720 And so the question is,
00:05:28.220 how will they be embraced by their fan bases,
00:05:30.280 their teams?
00:05:31.460 How will their careers move forward?
00:05:32.880 And this has happened in other sporting environments as well,
00:05:35.140 where athletes, oftentimes high-profile individuals,
00:05:38.380 have been accused, have been found out guilty.
00:05:40.080 But the career ramifications have been high cost
00:05:42.680 because, you know, life is short, as we say,
00:05:44.940 but a career in sports is even shorter.
00:05:47.640 And I think hockey has that same role, frankly.
00:05:49.600 And so missing, I don't know how long they missed.
00:05:52.460 I don't know if Alex, you have any idea
00:05:53.800 about how many times this,
00:05:55.380 how much time he spent off the ice
00:05:57.200 with their teams or the national program.
00:05:59.620 But regardless, any time is a lot of time
00:06:02.060 if it isn't something to do
00:06:03.300 with the actual sport in hand, like injury.
00:06:05.800 So it's unfortunate that they had to go through that,
00:06:08.160 but it's not the first
00:06:10.180 and maybe not be the last.
00:06:13.160 But I definitely do think it's put a bit of a dent
00:06:16.140 in what was once a much more strong,
00:06:18.580 I could say, Me Too movement effect in Canada,
00:06:21.620 where, you know,
00:06:22.700 as soon as the accusation goes public,
00:06:25.540 people's careers, profiles,
00:06:27.220 everything just goes to bits.
00:06:28.980 So I wonder what the long-term applications will be
00:06:33.360 on perhaps future high-profile cases of this matter.
00:06:36.660 Yeah, I did have something to say
00:06:38.180 just based on the NHL recurrence of these players,
00:06:41.740 let's say, because the goalie,
00:06:43.980 in the case Carter Hart,
00:06:45.200 obviously he's from Shore Park, I think,
00:06:47.100 which is essentially right outside of Edmonton.
00:06:49.220 And a lot of Edmontonians,
00:06:50.880 given our search for a goalie,
00:06:52.320 have been calling for him to return home.
00:06:54.620 But something interesting I found
00:06:55.820 that John Shannon just tweeted,
00:06:57.260 a very reputable hockey commentator,
00:06:59.460 he said, quote,
00:07:00.680 the five former world junior players
00:07:02.260 who were acquitted in London today
00:07:03.440 are not technically suspended by the NHL,
00:07:05.800 but at this point,
00:07:06.500 they are not eligible to play in the NHL.
00:07:08.820 The commissioner will have a say on their future.
00:07:10.500 So I don't know,
00:07:11.960 he didn't go into detail,
00:07:12.920 so I don't know what the legal ramifications are there
00:07:14.840 and what the NHL has to decide
00:07:16.520 for these players to play.
00:07:17.560 Like, based on this tweet,
00:07:19.040 I don't think a player could be signed tomorrow.
00:07:22.660 So we'll see what happens there.
00:07:23.660 I think that's actually a union concern
00:07:25.520 the union, NHL union,
00:07:28.780 which has, as you probably know,
00:07:30.760 a lot of sway on the league.
00:07:32.180 So we'll have to see what happens.
00:07:33.520 And then, I mean,
00:07:34.980 it'll be very, very interesting
00:07:36.180 to see if any of these players are signed quickly
00:07:38.820 because these are,
00:07:40.000 as you mentioned there, Alex,
00:07:41.180 like very talented hockey players.
00:07:42.560 These aren't some fourth liners
00:07:44.320 like Carter Hart, for example.
00:07:45.740 I mean, he's a starting goaltender.
00:07:47.260 Some of the other players there,
00:07:48.420 they could be on your first, second line.
00:07:50.060 Like these are some superstars in some cases.
00:07:52.300 So definitely some teams
00:07:54.020 are probably going to be looking to sign them,
00:07:57.280 especially if they can get a discount
00:07:58.540 because, I mean,
00:07:59.380 those kind of deals
00:08:00.140 don't just come around, right?
00:08:02.280 Yeah.
00:08:02.720 I mean, I know that one of the players,
00:08:04.000 Alex Formington,
00:08:05.080 he's stepped away from hockey entirely.
00:08:07.940 He's working in construction now.
00:08:10.120 As for the other players,
00:08:11.560 Dylan Dubé,
00:08:12.280 I think he's playing in Minsk,
00:08:14.460 was the last place that he was playing.
00:08:15.840 And Michael McLeod was playing in Afghanistan,
00:08:19.200 or not Afghanistan, Kazakhstan,
00:08:21.620 which, you know,
00:08:23.900 is pretty much just as remote, frankly.
00:08:25.680 They just don't have as many hockey rinks
00:08:27.000 in Afghanistan as they do in Kazakhstan.
00:08:28.920 He's actually playing in an arena
00:08:29.940 that sometimes doubles as a circus tent.
00:08:32.940 So, yeah,
00:08:34.140 it's been a really,
00:08:35.340 really interesting ride
00:08:36.100 for a lot of these players.
00:08:37.160 Carter Hart hasn't played for a while
00:08:38.540 and Calfoot,
00:08:39.380 I don't think,
00:08:39.760 has played anywhere
00:08:40.300 for a couple of years either.
00:08:41.720 So a couple of years away
00:08:43.860 from playing professional hockey
00:08:45.140 is really harmful
00:08:46.180 to a player's development.
00:08:47.480 As Walid was pointing out,
00:08:48.660 you know,
00:08:49.240 professional sports careers
00:08:50.320 are very short.
00:08:51.660 Well, not just that.
00:08:52.760 I mean, these guys,
00:08:53.460 if you think about it
00:08:54.020 from a financial perspective,
00:08:55.320 how short an NHL player's career is,
00:08:57.800 I mean,
00:08:58.000 they've lost millions of dollars.
00:08:59.220 Like, I don't know
00:08:59.860 what their contracts were,
00:09:01.000 but assuming Hart made
00:09:01.840 like five to eight million a year,
00:09:03.900 I mean,
00:09:04.200 how much has he lost?
00:09:05.720 It's unbelievable, right?
00:09:07.680 Yeah, and on that note,
00:09:08.420 there's an interesting little side note
00:09:09.580 to all of this,
00:09:10.140 which is Alex Formington,
00:09:11.700 who's no longer playing hockey,
00:09:13.240 his agent had told him
00:09:15.100 to negotiate harder,
00:09:16.120 I believe it was,
00:09:16.840 when his contract was up for renewal.
00:09:19.040 So he didn't re-sign.
00:09:20.700 And then in between
00:09:21.400 the amount of time
00:09:22.160 when he could have re-signed,
00:09:23.380 these charges came up
00:09:24.520 and he basically lost the offer.
00:09:27.020 And so he's suing his agent
00:09:28.280 and his agency
00:09:29.160 having a multi-million dollar lawsuit.
00:09:31.060 So that'll be another thing
00:09:32.580 to kind of watch
00:09:33.540 in the follow-up of all this.
00:09:35.160 The story that just keeps on giving,
00:09:37.040 eh, Alex?
00:09:37.760 Yeah, yeah.
00:09:38.920 Well, it's not the longest
00:09:40.080 mischief trial in history,
00:09:41.280 but it's still up there.
00:09:43.240 Speaking of a story
00:09:45.140 that keeps on giving,
00:09:46.760 sort of,
00:09:47.120 because it's evolved a bit,
00:09:48.780 of course,
00:09:49.860 recently it was revealed
00:09:51.800 that federal government employees
00:09:54.520 were streaming terabytes,
00:09:56.760 terabytes,
00:09:57.460 I mean,
00:09:57.680 that's hard to even quantify
00:09:59.280 as a lot of data,
00:10:01.240 terabytes of video
00:10:02.500 while at work,
00:10:03.540 I guess.
00:10:04.180 I think it was equivalent
00:10:05.620 to 3,000 hours of video.
00:10:08.460 Maybe that was just
00:10:09.120 a specific agency
00:10:09.940 or if it was all
00:10:10.460 the federal employees.
00:10:11.160 I don't know.
00:10:11.680 Waleed,
00:10:12.200 what was going on
00:10:13.500 with this story?
00:10:14.200 And as far as I understand,
00:10:15.820 they've now banned
00:10:16.780 Netflix and stuff
00:10:18.760 at federal government buildings.
00:10:20.300 What's the deal there?
00:10:21.880 So the ban actually came
00:10:23.180 last fall
00:10:24.700 and it's now revealed
00:10:27.160 more so
00:10:28.300 why that ban
00:10:29.200 came in the first place.
00:10:30.680 I mean,
00:10:30.860 obviously,
00:10:31.280 they have multiple reasons
00:10:32.560 to ban
00:10:33.020 Amazon Prime Video,
00:10:35.020 Disney+,
00:10:35.620 and obviously Netflix
00:10:36.640 because they simply
00:10:38.100 have no professional value
00:10:39.160 and now we're cited
00:10:40.060 in the first time
00:10:41.180 that they had announced
00:10:42.700 as to why they
00:10:43.860 banned
00:10:44.580 those streaming services
00:10:45.920 from the
00:10:47.080 government employee offices.
00:10:49.780 But something
00:10:50.280 that was revealed
00:10:51.040 later on
00:10:51.880 and that's the new story
00:10:53.120 of the day
00:10:53.560 is the fact that
00:10:54.860 one of the main reasons
00:10:56.020 was to deal with productivity
00:10:57.420 because you mentioned
00:10:59.180 3,000 hours.
00:11:00.340 3,000 hours
00:11:01.280 of standard video
00:11:02.800 is only the public service
00:11:04.800 and Procurement Canada
00:11:05.880 department.
00:11:07.320 That doesn't include,
00:11:08.000 for example,
00:11:08.440 the Privy Council
00:11:09.120 which had about
00:11:10.160 1.5 terabytes
00:11:11.160 which would amount
00:11:11.780 to closer to
00:11:12.500 1.5 to 1.6 thousand
00:11:14.740 hours of standard video.
00:11:15.860 Again,
00:11:16.260 for most of these offices
00:11:17.500 they're running on monitors
00:11:18.700 and computer hardware
00:11:19.680 and it's pretty straightforward.
00:11:21.340 So I wouldn't expect
00:11:21.880 anyone streaming
00:11:22.360 anything at 4K
00:11:23.200 or anything beyond HD.
00:11:25.500 So these figures
00:11:26.360 are quite relevant
00:11:27.380 to exactly what
00:11:28.500 they're looking at
00:11:29.120 on their screen.
00:11:30.000 So it is a lot of hours
00:11:31.800 and that's the Privy Council.
00:11:33.320 I think Global Affairs Canada
00:11:34.620 the Department of Fisheries
00:11:36.100 and Oceans
00:11:37.020 and then of course
00:11:37.980 the Department of Innovation Science
00:11:39.300 and Economic Development
00:11:40.240 were also among
00:11:41.620 the top 10 departments
00:11:43.200 that all had 0.75
00:11:46.520 almost 1 terabyte each
00:11:48.920 and that would be
00:11:49.940 at least 1,000 hours
00:11:51.360 worth of video.
00:11:52.080 So you can do
00:11:52.820 the numbers yourself.
00:11:54.380 That's thousands
00:11:55.400 upon thousands
00:11:56.160 of hours
00:11:56.900 between 10
00:11:58.180 different departments
00:11:59.220 that are working
00:12:01.060 in Ottawa
00:12:01.540 working on behalf
00:12:02.440 of Canadians
00:12:02.980 on the taxpayer dollar
00:12:04.140 on the hour
00:12:05.460 at the office.
00:12:07.180 So it makes sense
00:12:08.340 that this ban
00:12:09.120 came into effect
00:12:09.900 but frankly
00:12:11.060 for the sake
00:12:11.880 of transparency
00:12:12.460 it would have been
00:12:12.900 much better
00:12:13.260 to have access
00:12:14.000 to this information
00:12:14.700 prior
00:12:15.100 because I'm sure
00:12:16.260 that streaming services
00:12:17.660 aren't the only thing
00:12:18.420 that people can be doing
00:12:19.260 at work
00:12:19.800 that could distract them.
00:12:20.800 I mean we're in the age
00:12:21.460 of social media
00:12:22.060 where they
00:12:22.920 I mean TikTok
00:12:23.380 has obviously been banned
00:12:24.260 for national security
00:12:25.160 related reasons
00:12:26.140 but I also do believe
00:12:27.140 that there might be
00:12:28.040 some room
00:12:28.480 for an extended ban
00:12:29.680 onto other
00:12:30.260 traditional
00:12:31.020 Western media
00:12:32.100 because frankly
00:12:32.800 look if this is
00:12:33.600 what they're able
00:12:33.960 to do with Netflix
00:12:34.740 what else can
00:12:35.900 some of those
00:12:36.300 employees can do
00:12:36.940 but it's a story
00:12:38.600 that I don't think
00:12:39.380 has come out yet
00:12:40.000 so we'll wait
00:12:40.820 and see what
00:12:41.380 following actions
00:12:43.260 will occur
00:12:44.140 but man
00:12:45.740 I mean Ottawa
00:12:47.940 is getting a little bit lazy
00:12:48.880 that's all I can say.
00:12:51.040 Yeah Waleed
00:12:51.320 there was something
00:12:51.780 I wanted to ask you
00:12:52.520 and I'm gonna
00:12:52.960 self-incriminate
00:12:54.420 a bit here
00:12:54.840 because I just want
00:12:55.900 your opinion
00:12:56.740 on whether you think
00:12:57.460 the ban was effective
00:12:58.140 because
00:12:58.520 and this is what I'll say
00:12:59.480 when I was like 12
00:13:00.700 I went to my mom's office
00:13:01.800 for her bringing
00:13:03.320 a kid to work day
00:13:03.880 or something
00:13:04.260 I don't know
00:13:04.600 why I was there
00:13:05.100 and she had
00:13:06.560 her office did
00:13:07.600 like a blocker
00:13:08.640 on Facebook
00:13:09.080 and all these things
00:13:09.780 and I was a 12 year old kid
00:13:10.880 and I bypassed it
00:13:11.700 in like two seconds
00:13:12.380 using a proxy
00:13:13.080 you could easily
00:13:13.920 do the same
00:13:14.400 with a VPN
00:13:14.900 on any of your devices
00:13:15.900 I mean it's so simple
00:13:16.940 these are adults
00:13:17.740 grown adults
00:13:18.380 I'm pretty sure
00:13:18.880 they could figure this out
00:13:19.820 if a 12 year old
00:13:20.920 little nerdy kid
00:13:21.540 like me
00:13:21.960 could have done it
00:13:23.240 so yeah
00:13:23.560 do you think
00:13:23.940 it'll actually
00:13:24.460 be effective
00:13:25.540 or are they just
00:13:26.040 all gonna be like
00:13:26.460 ah pay five bucks
00:13:27.540 a month for the VPN
00:13:28.260 I'll just
00:13:28.920 bill the taxpayer
00:13:29.880 for that anyways
00:13:30.680 well frankly
00:13:34.140 it depends on
00:13:34.680 what the logistics
00:13:35.240 are looking like
00:13:35.840 I actually think
00:13:36.460 there's a great tie
00:13:37.360 on this issue
00:13:38.420 compared
00:13:38.900 tying into the issue
00:13:40.520 of work from home
00:13:41.680 because this is
00:13:42.860 happening at the office
00:13:43.820 we're not looking
00:13:44.980 at what's happening
00:13:45.480 at home
00:13:45.980 during office hours
00:13:47.700 while employees
00:13:48.920 are meant to work
00:13:49.560 because obviously
00:13:50.500 they're given
00:13:51.100 laptops and devices
00:13:52.720 that are property
00:13:53.400 of the government of Canada
00:13:54.260 which can have
00:13:55.520 trackable features
00:13:56.880 of course
00:13:57.400 to be able
00:13:58.000 to understand
00:13:58.480 exactly what they're doing
00:13:59.460 and have some level
00:14:01.280 of idea
00:14:01.840 of what their productivity is
00:14:03.260 but usually
00:14:04.360 if they're at the office
00:14:05.560 they may be using
00:14:06.280 a kind of internal
00:14:07.700 internet service
00:14:08.800 much better
00:14:09.400 to be much better monitored
00:14:10.800 so with a VPN involved
00:14:13.200 yes you can bypass
00:14:14.340 the blockade
00:14:15.660 in front of them
00:14:16.300 but can you bypass
00:14:17.640 the monitoring systems
00:14:18.940 can you bypass
00:14:19.640 other features
00:14:20.960 of accountability
00:14:21.560 that I think
00:14:22.740 is a very interesting
00:14:23.500 IT question
00:14:24.460 to have
00:14:25.160 or put towards
00:14:26.120 the government
00:14:26.560 on this story
00:14:27.580 I would love to follow up
00:14:28.620 with any department
00:14:30.200 if I'd be willing
00:14:30.840 to answer that question
00:14:31.740 because I want to understand
00:14:32.720 if this is part
00:14:34.080 of the context
00:14:34.620 as to why they've
00:14:35.360 enforced this ban
00:14:36.180 then what will they do
00:14:37.500 to continue addressing
00:14:38.340 that very same context
00:14:39.340 because it isn't just
00:14:40.100 about the fact
00:14:40.620 that Netflix
00:14:41.260 has never been
00:14:41.920 professionally beneficial
00:14:42.640 to the federal government
00:14:43.840 bureaucracy
00:14:45.200 it's never been
00:14:46.200 so we know that
00:14:47.340 they've told us
00:14:47.900 that last fall
00:14:48.580 now this is coming out
00:14:49.860 this is really the truth
00:14:50.980 how we're going to address
00:14:52.140 this beyond just this ban
00:14:53.720 what else can be done
00:14:55.080 and of course
00:14:55.800 what else could be banned
00:14:56.560 as I mentioned before
00:14:57.720 so I'm kind of curious
00:14:59.680 to know if this can also tie
00:15:01.100 into the whole
00:15:02.400 future outlook
00:15:03.580 of the work from home
00:15:04.880 hybrid system
00:15:05.640 because once you detach
00:15:06.900 from the office
00:15:07.920 you're on your own
00:15:08.900 home internet
00:15:09.400 you're on your
00:15:10.060 you have much more
00:15:11.180 I think flexibility
00:15:12.440 to hide things away
00:15:13.420 you don't even have to
00:15:14.280 use your work device
00:15:15.040 frankly
00:15:15.360 and that's the thing
00:15:16.000 people nowadays
00:15:16.980 have two or three laptops
00:15:18.540 per head
00:15:19.760 or per capita
00:15:20.820 at home
00:15:21.320 so it isn't like
00:15:22.520 they don't have
00:15:22.980 a second device
00:15:23.580 to work off them
00:15:24.320 so if that's the nature
00:15:25.340 if that's the climate
00:15:26.240 or that's the culture
00:15:27.300 at the bureaucracy now
00:15:29.220 then frankly
00:15:29.960 my hope for
00:15:31.300 anything but cuts
00:15:32.700 and anything but scrutiny
00:15:33.780 is second to none
00:15:36.120 I didn't even know
00:15:39.180 that Netflix
00:15:39.780 had 3,000 hours
00:15:40.880 worth of content
00:15:41.700 that's a lot
00:15:44.180 they probably have
00:15:44.580 like 3 million hours
00:15:45.600 worth of content now
00:15:46.440 yeah
00:15:46.900 I suppose
00:15:47.780 is there any information
00:15:48.780 from what they're watching
00:15:49.740 like are they just watching
00:15:50.800 like the same episode
00:15:51.740 of Friends
00:15:52.220 over and over again
00:15:53.200 this guy re-watched
00:15:54.860 Suits nine times
00:15:55.880 oh my god
00:15:57.600 watching it once
00:15:58.880 feels like watching it twice
00:16:00.060 that's how I feel
00:16:00.880 about that series
00:16:01.560 but that's a different story
00:16:02.840 so sticking with the federal government
00:16:07.280 but moving over to terrorists
00:16:10.360 instead of video streaming
00:16:12.200 yeah we saw some things
00:16:13.940 come out with
00:16:14.720 the Liberal Public Safety Minister
00:16:16.560 Gary Anandasangri there
00:16:18.040 you wrote about this
00:16:19.060 what was going on
00:16:20.500 in short
00:16:22.600 Gary is someone
00:16:24.300 that has been very involved
00:16:26.180 with the Sri Lankan diaspora
00:16:27.540 and in Sri Lanka
00:16:29.520 for a significant period
00:16:32.360 in the 80s
00:16:33.020 90s
00:16:33.760 and even early 2000s
00:16:35.340 civil war
00:16:36.200 has ravaged the country
00:16:37.520 and military groups
00:16:38.920 that are designated
00:16:39.580 as terrorist groups
00:16:40.500 have been part
00:16:41.320 and parcel of that
00:16:42.180 so what he did
00:16:43.880 is
00:16:44.140 there are members
00:16:45.340 of those groups
00:16:46.140 including the
00:16:47.520 Tamil
00:16:48.380 or you can call them
00:16:49.780 the Tamil Tigers
00:16:50.540 or Liberation
00:16:51.560 Organization
00:16:52.540 I think the full name
00:16:54.360 is Sri Lanka
00:16:55.000 Lanka's Tamil Tigers
00:16:56.300 that group
00:16:57.860 is a designated terrorist group
00:16:59.040 by over 35 countries
00:17:00.200 including Canada
00:17:01.080 since 2006
00:17:02.040 this group is actually responsible
00:17:04.440 and I never thought about this
00:17:05.840 I never heard of this before
00:17:07.660 but
00:17:07.940 they were responsible
00:17:09.160 for pioneering the use
00:17:10.800 of suicide vests
00:17:12.420 in insurgency in combat
00:17:14.320 I would have always think
00:17:15.320 it was probably Al-Qaeda
00:17:16.240 or ISIS
00:17:16.820 but I think they've popularized it
00:17:18.840 but I don't think they
00:17:19.500 they pioneered it
00:17:20.700 so give credit where credit is due
00:17:22.400 but
00:17:22.680 there was a member of this group
00:17:24.340 someone who admitted
00:17:25.500 to be a member of this group
00:17:26.820 that had spoken
00:17:27.980 to the Border Services Agency
00:17:30.520 and admitted to be part
00:17:31.800 of this group
00:17:32.200 now
00:17:32.380 he did admit to committing
00:17:33.480 any acts of violence
00:17:34.460 at least that's what
00:17:35.360 his testimony says
00:17:36.300 he said he was a member
00:17:37.520 of the group
00:17:37.880 handing out flyers
00:17:38.740 and this member
00:17:40.040 along with a few other members
00:17:41.220 but specifically this case
00:17:42.600 which was brought
00:17:43.140 to the Global News
00:17:43.880 which then took a round
00:17:45.600 and made circles the media
00:17:46.860 Gary wrote a letter
00:17:49.080 on his behalf
00:17:50.180 doing some charity work
00:17:51.420 with some Tamil
00:17:52.500 Sri Lankan diaspora organizations
00:17:54.120 trying to support his case
00:17:55.820 to remain in Canada
00:17:57.980 and that letter
00:17:59.640 is something
00:18:00.460 that probably contradicts
00:18:01.640 obviously contradicts
00:18:03.040 rather
00:18:03.260 the statement
00:18:04.820 of his office
00:18:05.620 of public safety minister
00:18:06.880 he's sticking up
00:18:07.820 for the terrorists
00:18:08.520 trying to convince
00:18:09.660 our security authorities
00:18:10.920 to allow him in
00:18:11.840 trying to bypass
00:18:13.020 the security apparatus
00:18:14.340 through giving
00:18:16.060 whatever credibility
00:18:17.320 his name has
00:18:17.940 and that letter
00:18:18.540 the last series
00:18:19.600 or the last letter
00:18:20.680 he issued
00:18:21.120 in that case
00:18:21.920 was as early as 2023
00:18:23.960 when he was a sworn
00:18:25.720 member of cabinet
00:18:26.500 now I'm not sure
00:18:27.200 what his portfolio was
00:18:28.140 but now
00:18:28.880 or ever since
00:18:29.640 he's become
00:18:30.000 public safety minister
00:18:30.860 that scrutiny
00:18:32.100 has been ever more
00:18:33.200 bright on him
00:18:33.700 and I think it's
00:18:34.600 well deserved
00:18:35.120 to thank me
00:18:35.500 because I mean
00:18:36.320 this is ridiculous
00:18:37.260 I don't know
00:18:37.900 how many other people
00:18:38.580 in the liberal cabinet
00:18:39.620 have this kind of
00:18:40.780 you know
00:18:41.440 stinking food in them
00:18:43.320 really
00:18:43.820 I mean
00:18:44.180 it's the most ironic thing
00:18:46.080 the public safety minister
00:18:47.240 is someone
00:18:47.640 who's sticking up
00:18:48.400 for people
00:18:48.900 coming into Canada
00:18:50.220 it's one thing
00:18:50.960 to think about terrorists
00:18:51.900 and have a view
00:18:52.720 about the terrorist group
00:18:53.520 in another part of the world
00:18:54.580 but to try to vouch
00:18:55.800 for that person
00:18:56.300 to come into Canada
00:18:57.160 I really think
00:18:58.580 this is something
00:18:59.220 that has to bring
00:19:00.860 about a resignation
00:19:01.440 at some point
00:19:02.120 really
00:19:03.280 you think
00:19:03.620 it should bring
00:19:04.700 about a resignation
00:19:05.440 I don't know
00:19:07.360 too Carney's talk
00:19:08.740 has been so far
00:19:10.080 I think Carney's
00:19:10.660 back to him
00:19:11.160 on the record
00:19:11.660 I haven't seen
00:19:12.320 what he said
00:19:12.860 about this case
00:19:13.480 in particular
00:19:13.940 but I have said
00:19:15.160 I've seen him
00:19:15.700 defend him in the past
00:19:16.560 when it came
00:19:16.920 to the whole scandal
00:19:17.800 with him
00:19:18.300 and you know
00:19:19.800 not knowing anything
00:19:20.560 about guns
00:19:21.100 and gun licenses
00:19:22.320 and the things
00:19:24.340 that gun owners
00:19:24.940 have to go through
00:19:25.500 in order to have guns
00:19:26.220 in Canada
00:19:26.560 that was a story
00:19:27.300 we covered
00:19:27.640 I think last week
00:19:28.440 on Off the Record
00:19:29.560 so our viewers
00:19:30.580 can go back
00:19:30.940 and watch that episode
00:19:31.660 but I think
00:19:33.780 the public
00:19:34.380 will put some pressure
00:19:35.260 I think there will be
00:19:35.960 some lobbies
00:19:36.700 and some concerned
00:19:38.000 Canadians
00:19:38.640 that will definitely
00:19:39.440 bring this about
00:19:40.280 with their MPs
00:19:41.400 but I don't know
00:19:42.480 if Carney's the one
00:19:43.220 to pull the plug
00:19:43.900 without something
00:19:45.480 biting him in the butt
00:19:46.520 yeah I don't think
00:19:48.100 accountability
00:19:48.700 has historically
00:19:50.580 been something
00:19:51.180 that liberals
00:19:51.920 generate on their own
00:19:53.440 but we have seen
00:19:54.400 that public backlash
00:19:56.780 for example
00:19:57.900 just in relation
00:19:58.500 to this Netflix thing
00:19:59.400 once this all
00:19:59.920 got revealed
00:20:00.320 right
00:20:00.540 public backlash
00:20:01.880 can certainly
00:20:02.380 have an effect
00:20:03.140 on the liberals
00:20:04.340 and sway the way
00:20:06.340 they make their decisions
00:20:07.440 so I wouldn't say
00:20:08.660 that without public backlash
00:20:10.100 anything would happen
00:20:11.120 but who knows
00:20:11.640 if people get mad enough
00:20:12.920 you know
00:20:13.680 it could definitely
00:20:14.360 move the needle
00:20:15.260 yeah
00:20:16.580 what did you think
00:20:17.560 Alex
00:20:17.980 just
00:20:19.280 I'm not as familiar
00:20:20.500 with the story
00:20:21.040 as I probably should
00:20:21.880 because I also wrote
00:20:22.540 an article on it
00:20:23.260 but I'm just curious
00:20:24.880 did he
00:20:26.040 did he ever get citizenship
00:20:27.360 I don't believe so
00:20:32.480 actually
00:20:32.880 and that's
00:20:33.360 perhaps a sign
00:20:35.580 of some part
00:20:36.980 of the regime
00:20:37.820 our security regime
00:20:39.340 working
00:20:39.940 yeah
00:20:40.960 I was going to say
00:20:41.700 that seems like a rare win
00:20:43.040 for either Mark Miller
00:20:44.160 or Sean Fraser
00:20:45.000 like a very rare win
00:20:47.220 I want to give
00:20:49.640 pin the credit
00:20:50.200 on them
00:20:50.560 frankly
00:20:50.880 I'll pin the credit
00:20:51.580 on the pages
00:20:52.900 in case
00:20:53.740 themselves
00:20:54.100 probably
00:20:54.540 yeah
00:20:55.240 the Ministry
00:20:55.800 of Immigration
00:20:56.360 probably has
00:20:57.100 at least one
00:20:57.720 or two
00:20:58.220 competent bureaucrats
00:20:59.340 in there somewhere
00:20:59.960 so
00:21:00.780 somewhere
00:21:02.280 somewhere
00:21:03.180 buried deep
00:21:04.420 in the pile
00:21:06.480 moving to a different
00:21:09.660 public organization
00:21:12.300 let's say
00:21:12.900 I mean
00:21:13.300 look
00:21:13.640 the list
00:21:14.580 of whistleblowers
00:21:16.060 exposing the CBC
00:21:17.720 and its bias
00:21:18.640 and ideological
00:21:19.860 preferences
00:21:21.820 let's say
00:21:22.460 just keeps on growing
00:21:23.560 for example
00:21:24.740 another former
00:21:26.180 recent CBC reporter
00:21:27.520 as you can see
00:21:28.700 wrote a
00:21:29.640 True North
00:21:30.160 article there
00:21:31.880 and he discussed
00:21:33.240 the censorship
00:21:34.800 the bias
00:21:35.400 and ideological
00:21:35.960 gatekeeping
00:21:36.540 that is going on
00:21:37.560 inside of Canada's
00:21:38.500 state broadcaster
00:21:39.340 echoing very similar
00:21:40.980 allegations
00:21:41.500 made by
00:21:42.840 previous
00:21:43.860 whistleblowers
00:21:44.560 this most recent
00:21:46.040 one was Jason
00:21:46.660 Unrau
00:21:47.080 who worked at
00:21:47.780 CBC
00:21:48.140 and Yellowknife
00:21:48.760 in Ottawa
00:21:49.180 and one of the
00:21:50.860 things he wrote
00:21:51.620 in his True North
00:21:52.240 column there
00:21:52.720 was quote
00:21:53.340 the CBC's culture
00:21:54.480 of ideological
00:21:55.200 conformity
00:21:55.900 and censorship
00:21:56.560 up close
00:21:57.580 that he witnessed
00:21:58.200 it
00:21:58.420 and that it
00:21:59.140 would shock
00:21:59.800 most Canadians
00:22:00.720 but perhaps
00:22:01.820 less so
00:22:02.760 and less so
00:22:03.260 with these
00:22:03.960 more whistleblowers
00:22:04.660 who keep coming
00:22:05.300 forward
00:22:05.640 and kind of
00:22:06.320 pointing a
00:22:07.800 spotlight on
00:22:08.420 what the inner
00:22:09.340 workings of the
00:22:09.960 CBC are
00:22:10.580 from an employee
00:22:12.680 culture perspective
00:22:13.760 for example
00:22:15.200 Unrau said
00:22:15.820 that CBC's
00:22:16.660 editorial culture
00:22:17.520 was all about
00:22:18.700 stifling dissenting
00:22:19.580 views
00:22:20.020 and staff
00:22:20.860 were even
00:22:21.180 punished
00:22:21.640 for questioning
00:22:22.460 any narrative
00:22:24.140 that was ongoing
00:22:25.040 like he claims
00:22:26.380 for example
00:22:27.260 stories that were
00:22:28.580 skeptical in any
00:22:29.380 way of climate
00:22:29.860 change or
00:22:30.360 indigenous narratives
00:22:31.160 were just
00:22:31.660 completely shut
00:22:32.320 down by woke
00:22:32.860 managers
00:22:33.280 he referenced
00:22:35.680 at one point
00:22:36.480 bringing on
00:22:37.280 MPP Randy
00:22:38.760 Hillier
00:22:39.180 and the manager
00:22:40.860 just said
00:22:41.280 he's crazy
00:22:41.780 that's it
00:22:42.220 he can't come
00:22:42.780 like that's all
00:22:43.760 it was
00:22:44.080 there was no
00:22:44.440 reasoning given
00:22:44.980 aside from
00:22:45.500 the quote
00:22:46.180 crazy
00:22:46.740 and of
00:22:47.900 course this
00:22:48.260 follows very
00:22:49.060 very very
00:22:49.680 shortly after
00:22:50.380 we saw
00:22:51.640 Travis Danraj
00:22:52.520 resign very
00:22:53.920 publicly from
00:22:54.540 the CBC
00:22:55.060 and the
00:22:56.160 claims he
00:22:56.580 was making
00:22:57.080 which were
00:22:58.340 that he was
00:22:58.900 forced out
00:22:59.440 after raising
00:23:00.240 concerns about
00:23:00.920 tokenism and
00:23:02.120 political bias
00:23:02.960 and then
00:23:04.360 there's other
00:23:05.420 examples for
00:23:06.700 example from
00:23:07.180 2022 it was
00:23:08.260 Tara Henley
00:23:09.100 who was a
00:23:09.920 former producer
00:23:10.520 and she
00:23:10.840 similarly
00:23:11.340 accused the
00:23:12.340 CBC of
00:23:12.940 promoting a
00:23:13.680 radical political
00:23:14.500 agenda even
00:23:15.780 requiring staff
00:23:16.540 to racially
00:23:17.160 profile guests
00:23:18.140 just to meet
00:23:18.720 diversity targets
00:23:19.720 and she
00:23:20.680 described a
00:23:21.300 workplace where
00:23:21.900 certain viewpoints
00:23:22.740 again were
00:23:23.300 off limits
00:23:23.880 completely and
00:23:24.920 critical thinking
00:23:25.640 was discouraged
00:23:26.900 something Unruh
00:23:28.000 raised was he
00:23:29.140 said look
00:23:30.760 people want to
00:23:31.300 be at the
00:23:31.600 CBC because
00:23:32.320 the pay is
00:23:32.980 phenomenal and
00:23:33.900 outside of that
00:23:35.100 though it may
00:23:36.880 not be as
00:23:37.720 good as it
00:23:38.260 looks it's all
00:23:39.700 about you know
00:23:40.300 towing the
00:23:40.880 ideological line
00:23:41.680 that's a quote
00:23:42.080 he used I
00:23:42.640 mean yeah do
00:23:43.220 you guys think
00:23:43.840 the CBC are
00:23:44.500 going to face
00:23:44.900 backlash with all
00:23:45.880 these whistleblowers
00:23:46.560 coming out or
00:23:47.320 they kind of
00:23:48.240 just they can do
00:23:48.800 what they want
00:23:49.240 because as we've
00:23:49.880 seen despite
00:23:51.200 them not meeting
00:23:52.220 performance targets
00:23:53.020 despite their
00:23:53.580 performance plummeting
00:23:54.540 Carney recently
00:23:55.740 pledged more
00:23:56.380 money to them so
00:23:57.120 it seems like
00:23:57.640 they're almost
00:23:58.260 immune from
00:23:59.080 public backlash
00:24:00.340 well I think
00:24:02.100 that they
00:24:02.380 certainly should
00:24:03.260 as somebody who
00:24:05.520 is an outsider
00:24:06.340 who went into
00:24:07.540 journalism kind of
00:24:08.320 later in life
00:24:09.100 my background was
00:24:10.100 in a different
00:24:10.540 field entirely
00:24:11.500 I don't think
00:24:12.560 I'm sharing
00:24:13.260 any kind of
00:24:14.020 trade secrets
00:24:14.680 here when I
00:24:15.240 say that
00:24:15.680 sometimes you
00:24:16.500 know when
00:24:16.780 you're in the
00:24:17.720 newsroom and
00:24:19.420 you submit a
00:24:20.160 story it gets
00:24:20.880 spiked and the
00:24:21.900 reason that it
00:24:22.340 gets spiked is
00:24:23.100 because well in
00:24:24.460 the case of our
00:24:24.960 organization we
00:24:25.680 say well maybe
00:24:26.040 our readers aren't
00:24:26.880 going to be
00:24:27.140 interested in that
00:24:27.880 we cater to a
00:24:28.760 kind of a
00:24:29.100 specific audience
00:24:30.040 the CBC though
00:24:31.640 they're a
00:24:32.140 taxpayer funded
00:24:32.860 organization and
00:24:33.860 their mandate is
00:24:34.840 to present news
00:24:35.900 to everyone to
00:24:37.620 all taxpayers
00:24:38.340 regardless of
00:24:39.100 what their
00:24:39.380 ideology happens to
00:24:40.560 be I mean we
00:24:41.540 don't take any
00:24:42.100 taxpayer subsidies
00:24:43.160 media subsidies
00:24:44.120 specifically so we
00:24:45.620 can kind of pick
00:24:46.240 and choose what we
00:24:47.020 want to put out
00:24:47.820 there and we
00:24:48.680 can do so without
00:24:49.300 having any kind of
00:24:50.080 moral apprehension
00:24:50.880 about it but the
00:24:52.020 CDC is obviously
00:24:52.840 very different I
00:24:53.900 mean taxpayers pay
00:24:56.060 their salaries whether
00:24:57.020 they're conservative
00:24:57.660 or liberal and so
00:24:58.600 they I believe have
00:24:59.520 an obligation to
00:25:00.340 present the news
00:25:01.160 fairly objectively
00:25:02.780 and without an
00:25:04.340 ideological bend and
00:25:05.840 I think that
00:25:06.760 Canadians are and
00:25:08.500 should be outraged
00:25:09.780 yeah just picking up
00:25:11.440 on something you
00:25:11.920 just said there
00:25:12.340 Alex it reminded
00:25:12.940 me because I
00:25:13.400 wrote a recent
00:25:13.840 article of Smith
00:25:14.560 where she was
00:25:15.560 essentially blasting
00:25:17.500 the legacy media
00:25:18.760 for bias and she
00:25:19.680 cited Dyn Raj's
00:25:20.740 recent resignation
00:25:22.600 and she said
00:25:23.560 something along the
00:25:24.100 lines I don't have
00:25:24.540 the quote here so
00:25:25.100 I'm paraphrasing but
00:25:25.760 she said something
00:25:26.320 along the lines of
00:25:27.220 these legacy media
00:25:28.120 decided they didn't
00:25:29.440 want conservative
00:25:30.020 viewers they
00:25:30.860 decided they didn't
00:25:31.600 want conservative
00:25:32.120 content and
00:25:32.700 surprise surprise
00:25:33.420 conservative viewers
00:25:34.940 and listeners went
00:25:35.700 elsewhere aka
00:25:36.560 independent media so
00:25:38.380 yeah Waleed what
00:25:39.980 do you think about
00:25:40.480 all these whistle
00:25:41.140 blowers coming out
00:25:41.900 against the CBC do
00:25:42.960 you think for
00:25:43.480 example that it's
00:25:44.300 the list will
00:25:45.780 continue to grow and
00:25:46.560 all these people are
00:25:47.280 going to talk about
00:25:47.780 the CBC I mean I
00:25:48.900 don't know
00:25:49.220 look I think we've
00:25:51.500 already observed one
00:25:52.240 thing which is the
00:25:52.980 fact that independent
00:25:53.740 media like us have
00:25:55.760 grown now that's
00:25:56.980 based on the audience
00:25:57.840 and that's basically
00:25:58.440 consumer market there
00:25:59.620 are more people
00:26:00.160 willing to invest
00:26:03.100 engage read
00:26:05.020 independent media not
00:26:06.420 just us but a long
00:26:07.860 list of outlets and
00:26:09.740 that population has
00:26:10.700 grown over the years
00:26:11.960 what I'm looking at
00:26:13.600 right now with this
00:26:14.520 situation with Travis
00:26:15.760 and others in the past
00:26:17.460 and perhaps others in
00:26:18.320 the future is the
00:26:19.360 talent pipeline is
00:26:20.900 those talented
00:26:21.660 journalist graduates or
00:26:23.100 those talented people
00:26:24.140 that weren't
00:26:24.720 necessarily in the
00:26:25.640 field of journalism at
00:26:26.440 an earlier stage and
00:26:27.280 people like my
00:26:28.160 colleague Alex that
00:26:29.120 had gathered other
00:26:30.740 experiences that brought
00:26:31.780 them into this field I
00:26:33.840 think those kinds of
00:26:35.320 folks like Travis
00:26:36.280 themselves will find
00:26:37.080 themselves in
00:26:37.780 alternative or
00:26:39.020 independent media and
00:26:40.920 that will change
00:26:41.460 the landscape not only
00:26:42.460 for viewers but also
00:26:44.100 for producers and
00:26:45.480 reporters and that
00:26:46.700 way the credibility
00:26:48.280 questions about you
00:26:49.780 know where's your best
00:26:51.720 outlet I mean or who
00:26:53.180 is your best talk show
00:26:55.420 or host or whomever I
00:26:56.940 mean the talent pipeline
00:26:58.220 is no longer going to
00:26:59.620 be headed towards the
00:27:00.980 CBC or the mainstream
00:27:02.280 media the talent pipeline
00:27:03.760 is going to be a bit
00:27:04.880 more balanced across
00:27:05.840 the board yeah people
00:27:07.280 will be looking for
00:27:07.800 the best paycheck but
00:27:08.860 people also look for
00:27:09.660 stability editorial
00:27:11.220 freedom and the
00:27:12.440 ability to express
00:27:12.940 themselves as they
00:27:13.560 wish I mean this is
00:27:14.580 what's going to happen
00:27:15.120 with the CBC and this
00:27:16.800 is something we have to
00:27:17.340 consider ourselves as
00:27:19.580 the fact that there
00:27:20.160 will be some that will
00:27:21.180 leave because simply
00:27:22.900 they're conservatives
00:27:24.080 and they can't be
00:27:25.240 tolerated under that
00:27:26.160 banner and then
00:27:27.140 there'll be some that
00:27:27.620 will leave because of
00:27:28.840 some other issues who
00:27:29.720 knows I mean sometimes
00:27:30.860 the left doesn't like the
00:27:31.800 CBC much either believe
00:27:33.440 it or not or I mean
00:27:34.560 the left I mean a real
00:27:35.560 hard left so there'll
00:27:36.660 be a point in time when
00:27:37.380 CBC will probably piss
00:27:38.700 off enough people to
00:27:39.940 really really lose its
00:27:41.480 public leadership to the
00:27:42.460 point where they can't
00:27:43.520 return to the same level
00:27:44.560 of operations or the
00:27:45.460 same level financial
00:27:46.160 you know sustainability
00:27:48.000 and therefore I think
00:27:49.600 we'll see some real
00:27:50.180 change from that point
00:27:51.180 so I think journalists
00:27:53.340 graduates young talent
00:27:54.760 older talent looking for
00:27:57.240 a new role I don't
00:27:58.920 think they'll look into
00:27:59.520 CBC the same way
00:28:00.540 because I think this
00:28:01.300 puts that on the
00:28:01.980 reputation not only as
00:28:03.220 a media organization
00:28:03.960 but simply just as an
00:28:05.080 employer the way you
00:28:06.140 treat your employees
00:28:06.860 your working conditions
00:28:08.180 Alex I'll ask you
00:28:10.220 something because I've
00:28:11.040 reported on this
00:28:11.900 extensively in the past
00:28:13.260 but despite the CBC
00:28:14.640 receiving what is it
00:28:15.960 now over 1.4 billion
00:28:17.280 dollars annually I've
00:28:19.100 looked at their annual
00:28:19.760 reports and and I'm
00:28:21.240 pretty sure there have
00:28:21.720 been times where they've
00:28:22.400 claimed a deficit I
00:28:23.280 mean it's it's
00:28:23.800 unbelievable could your
00:28:24.860 expenses be so high that
00:28:26.060 you're spending more than
00:28:26.820 you make it at 1.4
00:28:28.500 billion dollars but yeah
00:28:29.360 I just wanted to ask if
00:28:30.900 you think if the if the
00:28:32.900 how the CBC might change
00:28:34.320 if they lost federal
00:28:35.380 government funding in any
00:28:36.320 way maybe not like I'm
00:28:37.280 not saying they lose all
00:28:38.120 1.4 billion but say they
00:28:39.360 went down to 500 million
00:28:40.300 a year what what what
00:28:41.720 would that do to the CBC
00:28:42.920 as an organization and
00:28:44.260 and maybe I guess
00:28:45.180 Canada's media landscape
00:28:46.180 as a whole I don't think
00:28:47.880 that they would survive
00:28:48.760 frankly that the same
00:28:50.340 thing applies to chorus
00:28:51.320 entertainment that's the
00:28:52.360 parent company for global
00:28:53.540 they're they're basically
00:28:54.520 dependent entirely on media
00:28:56.560 subsidies for their
00:28:57.420 survival because these
00:28:58.340 companies you have to
00:28:59.060 remember even if you laid
00:29:00.060 off half of the staff you
00:29:01.520 still typically have to pay
00:29:02.560 severance so so the
00:29:04.720 operating costs for these
00:29:05.720 organizations are enormous
00:29:07.220 and it's really hard to
00:29:08.480 downsize an organization if
00:29:10.040 you have an unlimited amount
00:29:10.940 of money it's actually
00:29:11.840 obviously very easy to
00:29:13.760 oversize an organization but
00:29:15.680 downsizing is really really
00:29:17.120 tricky and it's very very
00:29:18.780 expensive and also is there
00:29:21.180 is there anybody out there
00:29:22.400 looking to buy any of CBC's
00:29:24.200 assets like a lot of their
00:29:26.480 media and Pierre Polyev say
00:29:28.420 he was going to do that to
00:29:29.400 turn it into housing or he
00:29:30.880 just not not he wouldn't
00:29:31.780 have to buy them I guess
00:29:32.480 yeah yeah he wanted to turn
00:29:34.200 the CBC headquarters into
00:29:35.540 housing yeah which I
00:29:36.580 actually think is a great
00:29:37.360 idea personally I mean we do
00:29:38.580 need more housing and we
00:29:39.520 probably need fewer
00:29:40.720 government subsidized media
00:29:42.140 companies because as
00:29:44.180 relevant said this when we
00:29:45.260 were in in Montreal for the
00:29:47.100 leadership debate and there
00:29:48.060 was that big meltdown in the
00:29:50.360 journalism room he said
00:29:51.360 these days everybody has a
00:29:52.800 phone and everybody with a
00:29:54.680 phone has a camera so just
00:29:56.100 about everybody can be a
00:29:57.060 journalist frankly like you
00:29:58.520 don't need to go to
00:29:59.080 journalism school to be a
00:30:00.120 journalist and a lot of
00:30:02.520 people who didn't go to
00:30:03.260 journalism and my journalism
00:30:04.480 school in my opinion are
00:30:05.480 great journalists and so
00:30:08.040 CBC has caution from all
00:30:10.060 angles and if it didn't
00:30:11.720 receive government subsidies
00:30:12.820 it didn't receive
00:30:13.700 government funding there's
00:30:15.340 no way that it would
00:30:16.060 survive I mean virtually
00:30:17.020 nobody watches CBC anymore
00:30:18.660 almost nobody everybody is
00:30:20.920 unplugged from cable
00:30:21.760 generally and that's one of
00:30:22.840 their biggest mediums so
00:30:24.600 yeah I'll comment on that
00:30:26.260 quickly we've seen critics
00:30:28.440 they love to critics of
00:30:30.600 right-wing media
00:30:31.340 organizations specifically
00:30:32.340 love to say oh you're not a
00:30:33.360 real journalist where's your
00:30:34.260 degree it's like first of all
00:30:35.780 I do have a degree I did go
00:30:37.660 to school for journalism and
00:30:38.780 one thing we learned about
00:30:39.700 extensively was citizen
00:30:40.740 journalism if you have a
00:30:41.700 phone if you've ever taken a
00:30:42.680 video and posted to an ex
00:30:43.840 posted to ex posted to
00:30:45.060 anything congratulations
00:30:45.820 you've conducted citizen
00:30:48.340 journalism you are a
00:30:49.300 journalist and I mean just
00:30:51.220 say that Alex like anyone
00:30:53.480 could be a journalist as you
00:30:54.460 said if you take a video and
00:30:55.760 it blows up online you've
00:30:57.260 just done journalism you've
00:30:58.980 created news congratulations
00:31:00.440 right like it really is that
00:31:02.360 simple anyone could be a
00:31:03.940 journalist if you have the
00:31:05.200 passion to create news
00:31:07.640 write stories tell people
00:31:09.240 what's happening right so
00:31:10.180 yeah I guess as more people
00:31:12.820 get phones which is
00:31:13.740 essentially everyone has a
00:31:14.580 phone their competition grows I
00:31:17.460 guess and especially when we
00:31:20.020 have social media platforms
00:31:21.720 like X where I don't want to
00:31:24.480 say views aren't dissented on
00:31:27.420 because they are as we saw
00:31:29.320 Melanie our colleagues account
00:31:31.380 got banned I think I don't know
00:31:32.760 why but in a way it's pretty
00:31:36.000 close to freedom of speech and
00:31:37.240 you can get all viewpoints on on
00:31:39.400 the platform despite there still
00:31:40.960 being a bit of problems it's
00:31:42.060 certainly nothing to the to
00:31:45.000 the levels of censorship that we
00:31:46.860 may have seen in the past with
00:31:47.960 with Facebook and stuff
00:31:48.960 especially around the was it the
00:31:52.440 2020 American election but
00:31:54.340 anyways I'm rambling on here
00:31:56.240 I still think doctors and
00:31:58.140 engineers should go to school
00:31:59.480 yeah yeah and and more
00:32:03.940 importantly than that not just go
00:32:05.100 to school be hired on merit not
00:32:06.460 because they have a certain skin
00:32:08.280 color because I mean I've talked
00:32:11.060 extensively about this too it's
00:32:12.280 like if DEI prevails then when
00:32:14.760 you walk into a doctor's office
00:32:15.940 and you see someone that might
00:32:18.060 be a DEI a DEI hire that's of
00:32:19.940 course the first thing that is
00:32:20.960 going to come into your mind is
00:32:21.740 this person even qualified I mean
00:32:22.960 it's it's worse for everyone the
00:32:24.780 consumers the employees
00:32:25.920 themselves I mean there's
00:32:27.760 nothing that could supersede and
00:32:30.400 and be improved on than merit
00:32:32.100 based hiring yeah I mean people
00:32:35.060 should be judged by the content of
00:32:36.780 their character not the color of
00:32:37.980 their skin of course and that I
00:32:39.960 think should also apply to people
00:32:41.440 who are applying for work and
00:32:43.640 media companies too they should be
00:32:44.880 judged by the quality of their
00:32:48.400 production not by government funding
00:32:52.400 they receive and especially when
00:32:54.900 independent outlets are competing
00:32:56.820 with an organization that receives
00:32:58.460 1.4 billion dollars a year and
00:33:00.600 independent outlets that receive no
00:33:02.520 government funding I mean talk about
00:33:04.640 David versus Goliath right there
00:33:06.920 right yeah no absolutely and I'll
00:33:11.680 just add one last thing from that
00:33:12.920 the leaders debate scrum it was
00:33:15.920 really interesting to me because the
00:33:18.260 independent media beat them all to
00:33:20.220 the front of the line so despite them
00:33:22.340 getting this you know billion dollar
00:33:24.180 head start from taxpayer subsidies
00:33:26.480 they still didn't bother to get out of
00:33:28.600 their chair and do their job when
00:33:30.680 push came to shove and I feel like that
00:33:32.020 really should have been the big story
00:33:33.340 rather than us all getting ejected
00:33:36.000 yeah but you did Alex and you got a
00:33:37.760 great question in so
00:33:38.720 thanks yeah we'll see if they'll ever
00:33:41.820 allow me back
00:33:42.600 I doubt it remember I was I was banned
00:33:46.300 from even going to to Carney's launch
00:33:48.260 party there I was escorted off the
00:33:49.660 premises so I mean I don't see that
00:33:51.520 changing but hey you never know I guess
00:33:52.920 no no I mean like if they don't let us
00:33:55.000 back I imagine that we'll probably just
00:33:56.640 take them to court again
00:33:57.560 you know because ultimately we have a
00:34:01.380 right to be there that's right yeah
00:34:02.500 and it's not the government's job to
00:34:03.780 decide who's a journalist and who isn't
00:34:06.220 well they think it is if you don't
00:34:07.680 receive taxpayer funds you can't be in
00:34:09.080 there hmm yeah which is quite
00:34:11.740 outrageous when you consider the fact
00:34:13.180 that receiving taxpayer funds makes
00:34:14.860 you more compromised and therefore less
00:34:16.520 credible so you would actually think
00:34:18.960 that you they would be prioritizing the
00:34:21.260 free speech rights of journalism
00:34:22.380 companies that aren't receiving
00:34:23.760 government subsidies because it means
00:34:25.680 that they're truly independent and
00:34:27.720 more likely therefore to tell the
00:34:28.920 truth
00:34:29.200 anyways my name is Isaac Lameru I'd
00:34:32.440 like to thank my colleagues Alex
00:34:33.400 Zoltan and Waleed Tamtam and
00:34:35.180 remember everything you heard today
00:34:36.380 was off the record
00:34:37.240 yeah Waleed you were in court today
00:34:42.880 right what happened there do you want
00:34:44.180 to just talk about that
00:34:44.800 it was a long it was a long long
00:34:53.060 series of nothing frankly I I the last
00:34:57.860 significant moment I can remember was
00:34:59.880 Chris Barber was having some internet
00:35:02.440 issues he went outside the house with
00:35:05.560 his phone camera in hand he went back
00:35:08.440 inside the house wasn't quick enough to
00:35:11.280 figure it out court recess lunch break I
00:35:14.740 mean it was a full show about how long
00:35:17.540 things can happen without anything moving
00:35:19.680 forward um but inconclusive thus far no
00:35:24.360 sentencing as of yet but the wheels are
00:35:26.780 just as turned slowly right I have an
00:35:29.140 update I know you got a run with it but
00:35:30.480 um September is the when we're going to
00:35:33.220 hear about the sentencing
00:35:34.140 September 7th yeah yes it's the 7th
00:35:37.780 remember that well that's like the
00:35:38.820 official sentencing date that's when I
00:35:40.620 thought that was supposed to be today
00:35:41.640 though so can they just push it back
00:35:42.980 again like how does this go no not
00:35:44.560 explicitly so so September 7th is
00:35:47.480 actually the forfeiture hearing for
00:35:49.620 Chris Barber and Big Red and then I
00:35:52.180 don't even think they've set the date
00:35:53.320 officially for the actual sentencing
00:35:54.940 which I believe will be in late
00:35:56.580 September it might be even without
00:35:58.600 filming we'll have to wait and see what
00:36:02.260 happens I'm interested to at least see
00:36:03.880 if the public discourse can have any
00:36:06.980 effect because obviously a lot of
00:36:08.540 people are very unhappy with what's
00:36:10.060 going on so far for these mischief
00:36:11.540 trials right yeah yeah it's pretty
00:36:15.260 outrageous
00:36:17.480 you
00:36:19.540 you
00:36:20.540 you
00:36:22.540 you
00:36:24.540 you
00:36:26.540 you
00:36:28.540 you