Juno News - An Ontario school board is forcing parents to recite land acknowledgements

00:00:00.300 Another publicly funded Ontario school board forces parents to read political statements, in this case a land acknowledgement at the start of every meeting, and then ban them from even discussing it at all.

00:00:11.120 That's the heart of a judicial review launched by Dr. Jeff Horstman, a lecturer at the University of Waterloo, and he's also the father of kids at the Waterloo Region District School Board.

00:00:22.160 Jeff's legal challenge argues that compelling parents to recite land acknowledgements violates their charter rights, and for him that's especially in the realm of freedom of conscience and expression.

00:00:33.760 Today we'll look at how this case could shape the limits of compelled speech, ideological enforcement, and democratic accountability in school governance, possibly even across Canada.

00:00:45.200 I'm Melanie Bennett. This is Disrupted.

00:00:51.480 Today I'm joined with Jeff Horstman. Thank you so much for joining me today.

00:01:01.920 Oh, thank you for having me, Melanie.

00:01:03.520 Okay, so let me give a little bit of background context.

00:01:07.100 Jeff, I invited you because you recently submitted a legal challenge to the Waterloo Region District School Board on the basis of their requirement for mandatory land acknowledgement.

00:01:19.660 I'll just give a little bit of background detail as to why I'm interested in this case.

00:01:24.580 In the late spring, early summer, I was covering the story of Catherine Cronos, which many people might be aware of.

00:01:31.060 She objected to a land acknowledgement.

00:01:33.880 The video went viral.

00:01:35.720 She was sanctioned.

00:01:36.780 She was removed from her parent council.

00:01:39.860 And then she was reinstated with the involvement of the JCCF, the Justice Center for Constitutional Freedoms, and it was this whole thing.

00:01:45.420 And she's still in the process of dealing with that.

00:01:48.340 And it came to my attention recently that you guys at a different board, so again, this is the Waterloo area.

00:01:56.240 It's a different area.

00:01:58.260 The Parent Involvement Committee, individuals on the Parent Involvement Committee, including yourself, were also challenging the idea of land acknowledgements.

00:02:07.500 And I had the pleasure, shall we say, of attending the last meeting.

00:02:13.160 And in there, something I found very curious, because in Catherine's case, it was the principal who involved himself in whether or not the school council should be allowed to do land acknowledgements.

00:02:25.080 But in your case, in Waterloo, in the Parent Involvement Committee, it was the Director of Education who specifically said,

00:02:32.160 we are not going to note this in the minutes, we're not going to talk about this, we're just going to do it, and that's that.

00:02:36.920 Correct?

00:02:37.860 Right.

00:02:38.560 And in the meeting I attended, what I heard was pretty incredible, and I wrote about this, that the committee decided that they were going to note it in the minutes.

00:02:48.200 In fact, you know, this acknowledgement, we'll put it in there, or this objection to the land acknowledgement, we're going to put that in the minutes.

00:02:53.780 But we're not going to write that the Director mentioned anything.

00:02:56.960 We're just going to ignore that bit, and I heard this disagreement between everyone.

00:03:03.080 What I wasn't expecting is the very next day after I published this article, you, sir, came out with a legal challenge with the JCCF.

00:03:14.180 So how about we start this way?

00:03:16.580 Why don't you start by just giving us an overview of your legal challenge with JCCF?

00:03:23.320 Sure, this legal challenge is a judicial review, and it stems from the fact that at my parent council or school council, the board has said that we are required to have land acknowledgements at this council.

00:03:43.280 They've said, furthermore, that it cannot be discussed, right?

00:03:49.740 There is no opportunity for me to discuss or challenge this or have any substantive engagement on the issue at all.

00:04:00.420 It's really to align with the board's commitment to truth and reconciliation.

00:04:04.180 So that's really, essentially, the board just told me no.

00:04:08.320 Now, this is a process I had engaged in for quite some time.

00:04:11.500 Since early 2025, I started trying to discuss with the school council chair, the principal, and, of course, now a board-level equity advisor or something.

00:04:27.060 That's how it ended up.

00:04:28.720 That was the person who said it can't be discussed.

00:04:31.640 Okay, so I'm going to quote from the legal challenge.

00:04:34.700 It says that this is in communication from the school board.

00:04:39.680 And I don't think we know who this was at this point, but anyway.

00:04:42.140 So it says, conversations are actions that question the validity of equity-focused initiatives, including those designed to support historically and currently marginalized groups, risk undermining the dignity of members of our community.

00:04:56.300 Right, so we don't want to question any of our equity-focused initiatives, is what they're saying.

00:05:02.340 The WRDSB commitment to equity and human rights means that certain topics, certain topics, particularly those that diminish or delegitimize the experience of equity-deserving groups, must be approached with care and alignment with Ontario's human rights code.

00:05:17.300 So they are saying, we're not going to discuss this.

00:05:21.740 Like, if you want to talk about indigenous issues, we're just not going to talk about this.

00:05:26.680 Right, that's what they're saying.

00:05:28.360 And this came up very early in my discussions with the chair in early 2025, that discussions about land acknowledgements could be a violation of the Human Rights Code.

00:05:43.120 And so at that point, I think one of the points I brought up to the chair is, I think it would be appropriate for parents to know ahead of time what topics are potential violations of the law.

00:05:55.360 I don't think it's fair that we have these invisible tripwires that we wouldn't know about.

00:06:00.580 I think there should be some place where they're listed.

00:06:03.740 Right, and of course they can't do that.

00:06:06.680 Well, that would basically be saying that, they're saying it, okay, so we'll use different language.

00:06:14.480 You can't break the law.

00:06:16.720 I'll use an analogy.

00:06:17.460 You can't break the law.

00:06:18.700 You should follow the law.

00:06:19.720 But the idea is that you should be able to discuss and question elements about a law because that's the process of democracy, right?

00:06:27.940 So we should be able to question policies because perhaps those policies are wrong or maybe there's some issues with it.

00:06:33.440 But what they're saying here is they're not saying that it's a question you can't even discuss the policy or the law, right?

00:06:42.680 So that's kind of what they're saying, which is very, very interesting that this particular school board is so upfront and honest about that that's what they're doing.

00:06:53.680 But part of this legal challenge, the thing that I actually found the most interesting and I think could have broader implications, not just for land acknowledgments, whether you agree with land acknowledgments or not,

00:07:04.820 this is on the basis of your freedom of conscience.

00:07:09.780 And that's interesting because a lot of times when we're talking about school boards and people objecting to some of these, I guess, we'll just call them walk policies.

00:07:18.600 They tend to be on the basis of religion, like freedom of religion.

00:07:22.280 But we forget that we also have freedom of conscience within the charter.

00:07:26.060 What made you decide to go with that?

00:07:27.980 Well, it's really because for me, it was just a clear matter of conscience.

00:07:36.320 I have very strong beliefs, first of all, that we should be able to discuss things.

00:07:42.300 The acknowledgments themselves are somewhat secondary, but I do object to the acknowledgments on the basis that this is singling out a particular ethno-sectarian group for special consideration.

00:07:55.980 I don't think this is helpful to be spending time talking about a certain group in a very sacred way, right?

00:08:03.940 I think these are very religious statements, particularly the way they're done.

00:08:07.940 To me, they come across that way.

00:08:10.940 So in terms of conscience, I'm being told that I have to silently listen.

00:08:16.920 To participate in a meeting fully, I have to silently listen to this very statement that I disagree with quite strongly.

00:08:28.000 I have to silently listen.

00:08:30.420 And that really acts as a way to involuntarily endorse or launder these political or religious statements.

00:08:41.900 And manufacture an appearance of consensus among all council members.

00:08:48.760 And furthermore, we don't even know who else objects.

00:08:55.080 I still haven't been able to figure out who's on council technically.

00:08:57.980 There's no list posted.

00:09:00.160 There's a lot of all sorts of bylaws that aren't being adhered to.

00:09:05.000 So I just don't know, right?

00:09:06.900 So really, back to the conscience, it really is just the fact that I'm sort of being forced to sit through this and make it appear as though I consent.

00:09:17.060 Yeah, but if also people are being told that they're not allowed to even discuss certain topics that come under the umbrella of equity-deserving groups or equity initiatives.

00:09:27.020 If council members or community members are told this, they might not even express that they agree with other people who disagree, shall we say?

00:09:36.460 So there's a barrier there.

00:09:38.640 And that's more under the freedom of expression, right?

00:09:41.780 Correct.

00:09:43.040 One of the other things that I found really interesting is, as well as talking about freedom of conscience,

00:09:47.820 you were raising the idea that these land acknowledgments, you felt, and part of your conscience was telling you,

00:09:55.900 that actually they're kind of racist, and because you do not consider yourself to be a racist person,

00:10:00.060 that you felt you were being encouraged to make statements that you felt were racist.

00:10:07.120 Yeah, I don't know if I use the term racist, but I think in terms of individual dignity,

00:10:13.180 I believe in the inherent dignity and worth of people as individuals.

00:10:19.120 So it would be racist to the extent that we are dividing people based on race or ethnicity.

00:10:27.580 We are dividing them and then saying that certain groups have special rights or they have some particular connection to the land.

00:10:38.540 It's really a blood and soil type of ideology that is being inculcated through the council, and I object to that.

00:10:47.580 So, yeah, I think racist is probably, yeah, that's probably a reasonable term to use. 1.00

00:10:54.000 Yeah, I think I was using my own phrasing in there.

00:10:57.960 I don't think you actually did call them or actually use that particular term.

00:11:00.780 But it's interesting phrasing it that way because a lot of people who object to a lot of diversity, equity, and inclusion ideas

00:11:07.280 tend to do so on the basis that they feel that it's actually reversing the concept of racism, right?

00:11:12.600 And so this kind of comes across in this particular legal challenge.

00:11:16.760 Now, I want to go back to the meeting that I attended because what I didn't know when I was listening and writing the article

00:11:24.460 was that the director, when he interjected in the original meeting, I think it was back in September,

00:11:33.120 and he said, no, we're absolutely not going to note that, you know, our board is pro-truth and reconciliation.

00:11:37.600 We're actually not going to discuss that.

00:11:38.900 He was doing so on the basis of what you were told, that we don't discuss these topics.

00:11:43.480 We just do them.

00:11:44.700 And then the meeting that I attended back in late November, all of a sudden, oh, we don't want to put down that the director said anything.

00:11:52.820 We want to definitely get away from that.

00:11:55.420 And it seems to me that the change in attitude between those two meetings might be a reflection on some of the conversations

00:12:02.000 that you were having behind the scenes with the school board and the JCCF.

00:12:06.320 Are you allowed to talk about that?

00:12:07.540 Is that correct?

00:12:08.720 Or was that going on even longer?

00:12:10.480 No.

00:12:11.200 So, no, the action that we filed was after that meeting.

00:12:17.220 So it would have no reflections.

00:12:19.680 And I don't think because the board was very clear.

00:12:22.480 The last interactions I had with the board, I sought clarity.

00:12:25.720 It was very clear in an email, we are going to require school councils to do land acknowledgements,

00:12:33.760 and they're not things that can be discussed.

00:12:35.840 And that was really the last I heard of it from the board.

00:12:40.100 Yeah.

00:12:40.660 So where do you go from here?

00:12:43.600 Good question.

00:12:44.520 I guess we'll see what happens when it goes for review.

00:12:49.180 We're going to file the affidavit, go through the process.

00:12:53.560 And I hope that the board will reverse its decision, but we'll see.

00:12:59.400 Yeah.

00:12:59.560 It's really interesting, too, because I noticed that oftentimes talking about these issues,

00:13:04.400 mainstream media don't really cover it.

00:13:05.820 And I noticed that that was being picked up by legacy media.

00:13:10.540 I can't remember exactly off the top of my head which ones, but be things like CTV or City News.

00:13:17.900 I don't think those are the correct ones.

00:13:19.480 But yeah, there was CTV Kitchener and the Waterloo Record, and they both covered it fairly.

00:13:25.460 So I'm quite encouraged by that.

00:13:28.900 I don't know why they picked it up, but they did.

00:13:31.720 Yeah.

00:13:32.100 It must be something that's resonating with the readership.

00:13:35.620 I think people are starting to find these things off.

00:13:39.160 And perhaps people are recognizing with the Cowichan decision that's starting to resonate in people's minds,

00:13:46.200 that there actually are consequences for property rights.

00:13:50.420 So maybe that's just starting to pick up, and people are really starting to want to put the brakes on this,

00:13:55.740 or question it at least, or just think, we should talk about this.

00:13:59.020 It wasn't really talked about, right?

00:14:01.200 Yeah, and so I don't know your region that well.

00:14:05.480 I've only been a few times.

00:14:07.240 But if I'm not mistaken, there's the Six Nations, and there's been some questions around ownership of land

00:14:14.740 and some disputes over a long period of time.

00:14:18.060 And I've actually continued attending Catherine Cronus, which is not you guys.

00:14:23.000 It's sort of a different story, but it's all about the land acknowledgement,

00:14:25.840 whether or not those are appropriate.

00:14:27.140 But it seems that those areas, both Hamilton and Waterloo, which are kind of close together,

00:14:37.940 seem to have a lot of opposition to getting rid of these land acknowledgements.

00:14:41.660 The schools do seem very, very, very keen on silencing any objection to that, particularly in this area.

00:14:48.120 Do you think it has anything to do with the issues in the Six Nations, the land disputes?

00:14:54.440 That's a good question.

00:14:55.600 I have no idea if it does.

00:14:57.140 Because I don't know who advises the board on these acknowledgements.

00:15:04.080 One thing that's interesting, at the meeting, a board meeting recently, I think in September,

00:15:11.300 the Waterloo Region District School Board, the chair opened the meeting in a way that I'd never seen before.

00:15:18.060 It was very extended, very sacred-sounding, talking about Indigenous sovereignty and Turtle Island.

00:15:28.660 And then last night I attended a town hall, not a town hall, but it was the board was promoting it that way.

00:15:35.520 And it was discussing the strategic plan that they've got, and front and centre, it talked about Indigenous sovereignty.

00:15:43.060 So, maybe this is something that activists have infused, you know, the consultants, and perhaps that's one explanation is that they think this may have some legal advantage to some of these settlements.

00:15:57.240 I don't know. I hadn't thought of that before.

00:15:59.260 Yeah, that's probably a bit of an unfair question, because obviously this has nothing to do with your particular legal challenge, right?

00:16:04.500 I was curious to talk about one other thing, and that's why this is important that it's happening at school councils, or parent councils, and parent involvement committees.

00:16:16.220 Now, my understanding is that these particular groups, whether it's parent involvement committee or parent council, which are similar but not quite the same thing,

00:16:24.120 that they are governed by parents, and although they are there to advise the board, they should not be governed by the board.

00:16:31.740 This is why it matters that, say, the principal in Hamilton got involved, and the director of education in Waterloo got involved,

00:16:38.280 because they shouldn't be getting involved in parent-led governance, but they did in these particular cases.

00:16:45.840 Would you like to maybe talk a little bit about how it's important for parents to understand that they're the ones in charge of these particular groups, right?

00:16:54.960 Like, that's your way in.

00:16:55.920 When we hear right now about how the Minister of Education is creating these parent organizations, I can't remember what they are off the top of my head,

00:17:02.940 but within the board, there's these groups, and they're supposed to help parents, and so on and so forth, and that's great.

00:17:07.320 Sure, that could work.

00:17:08.300 But also, parent council is supposed to be for parents.

00:17:11.400 It's supposed to be led by parents, governed by parents, and the communication between parents and the board.

00:17:15.680 Yeah, and the parent involvement council, this PIC, is a little different than the school councils.

00:17:22.680 I think the school councils have a little more independence, whereas PIC is a board group of parent volunteers to kind of help with parent involvement.

00:17:31.000 So they're slightly different.

00:17:31.940 But this, my case, involves the school councils, and these councils are arm's length, and in the statute, it's quite clear that one of the roles is to hold the board accountable,

00:17:44.420 and the schools accountable to parents, right, so that we can help improve student outcomes and well-being, right?

00:17:51.720 It's this type of language.

00:17:52.780 So I've always viewed my role on these councils as an accountability role, that it's very important that this is, I don't know how else,

00:18:03.700 you try to bring, you want to make change in the school and the direction of education, you have concerns,

00:18:08.160 you can bring them to council and try to discuss them.

00:18:11.320 In practice, I've never seen the councils functioning that way.

00:18:15.000 I've been on three different councils, and they always appear to be quite driven by the principal, quite controlled, and in line with board priorities.

00:18:29.060 The chair often seems to be very friendly with the principal, which isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it's almost a deferential relationship.

00:18:40.000 I feel that the chair is kind of listening to what the principal says.

00:18:44.800 There's not a lot of, I've never been able to have really what I consider to be important educational topics discussed at council.

00:18:53.620 It'll be the time is taken up, you know, after an extensive land acknowledgement, there's going to be, you know, a presentation about our advising group,

00:19:02.160 or, you know, the students will talk about what they're doing.

00:19:04.820 It's all feel-good type of stuff, you know, long presentations about a particular programming at the school, you know, fine,

00:19:12.720 but it's never been a place where, here's my concern about how we now don't have grade 11 English.

00:19:20.000 It's more, again, being politically infused.

00:19:22.220 We've never been able to have discussions about CRRP or any sort of these critical race theory issues.

00:19:29.840 But technically, that should be the place where you should have a voice as a parent to discuss concerns.

00:19:35.360 You would think, but I think a lot of, even the parents seem to be quite deferential.

00:19:42.360 I feel that there's, and maybe this is a broader cultural problem in our country,

00:19:46.840 is that we very much look to government for answers, and we're very like, oh, is that okay if I do this?

00:19:53.480 It's, people don't, I don't think they've read the Education Act or understand what their rights are, what their role is.

00:19:58.980 They seem to just show up, and the principal sets the agenda and kind of runs things with the chair,

00:20:04.700 and they just kind of ask, oh, can I do this?

00:20:08.080 So, I think that's a more serious systemic cultural problem.

00:20:13.520 Yeah, so you're a parent who's definitely been at the forefront with some other parents as well in different school boards,

00:20:18.680 but there's certainly some parents who are less afraid of, or who are more willing to push what the established zeitgeist is in the education system.

00:20:28.020 But would you have any advice for parents who might be concerned about some of these things going on in schools and what they can do?

00:20:34.840 Yeah, I would say you have, you can talk about it, and in fact, you should insist upon it.

00:20:40.580 And I think, you know, it's a good idea to talk to your teacher and your principal.

00:20:44.540 Usually, principals are very good about having a discussion.

00:20:47.200 You know, I had a nice, long conversation with my principal, and I think that's important.

00:20:50.900 But I think the most important thing is to connect to parents, to other parents.

00:20:55.320 And you're not going to do that through official channels with the board.

00:20:59.000 I've tried that, and they're very good at keeping you isolated.

00:21:01.580 They really don't want you talking and getting together and organizing.

00:21:05.100 You have to do that independently.

00:21:07.660 And so I think connecting, I mean, like we have a group at Waterloo that's quite active, this Empower group.

00:21:15.380 So, I mean, you can reach out to us.

00:21:17.300 But I think that's the key is to start networking with other parents and finding out what they think and learning.

00:21:26.180 Because a lot of people just don't know about what's going on.

00:21:28.740 They'll see something strange.

00:21:29.900 It doesn't make sense, but no one else is talking about it.

00:21:32.780 Well, I haven't really thought about it.

00:21:34.020 Well, I will say that in your area, there has been some success, specifically with land acknowledgments.

00:21:39.380 I believe one of the members of Empower, Cristina Bayros Fernandez, at her school council was able to remove the land acknowledgement from parent council.

00:21:49.540 So, I mean, these things can be successful.

00:21:51.440 They do happen.

00:21:52.040 And sometimes we don't talk about some of those successes.

00:21:55.100 They happen in small areas.

00:21:56.740 Maybe it's not widely known.

00:21:58.040 So, I'll just share that to end the discussion that we're having today.

00:22:01.280 And that was really actually an excellent example because it took a long time.

00:22:06.200 It was building those relationships over time.

00:22:08.720 And they came to a really good compromise where those who really want to have that somber reflection just show up a few minutes early.

00:22:16.520 They can do it.

00:22:17.500 And then the meeting starts on time where they get to business.

00:22:19.640 Everyone sort of agreed on that.

00:22:20.820 So, there are good compromises here.

00:22:24.240 Okay.

00:22:24.620 I didn't realize that was the way that it was done.

00:22:26.980 Yeah.

00:22:27.180 That just shows that there are ways that people can follow their own conscience without being forced into it.

00:22:31.140 It's really important to them to have that.

00:22:33.160 It's almost like a prayer.

00:22:34.380 You know, it's deeply important to them.

00:22:36.300 But also, if you don't have those discussions, if you don't talk about it, you can't come to an arrangement where everybody feels that they're happy with what's happening.

00:22:45.780 Right?

00:22:46.400 Right.

00:22:46.900 Right.

00:22:47.440 And that's the issue.

00:22:48.700 It's just we haven't been able to have the discussion.

00:22:51.100 And that seems to be the official position of the board that you cannot discuss it.

00:22:55.720 Okay, Jeff, I will be watching this case very closely.

00:22:59.240 I definitely think that there is some potential implications that are broader than this in terms of freedom of conscience.

00:23:04.860 And if Canadians should be compelled to do things that they feel deeply goes against their beliefs.

00:23:11.940 So, thank you for doing this.

00:23:14.080 And, yeah, I hope to speak to you soon about the same topic.

00:23:17.900 All right.

00:23:18.240 Wonderful.

00:23:18.660 Well, thank you so much for having me, Melanie.

00:23:20.220 That's it for today's episode of Disrupted.

00:23:22.160 This story is definitely a reminder that parents can speak up, even when school boards or the media try to shame or silence or discredit you or tell you that you're not allowed to talk about things.

00:23:35.240 Talking about tough topics takes courage, I know, and it can be difficult.

00:23:39.840 But that's how we hold public institutions accountable.

00:23:43.780 So, keep doing it.

00:23:44.660 And if you found this helpful, possibly consider liking, subscribing, and sharing it with someone who needs to hear it.

00:23:53.340 For True North, I'm Melanie Bennett.

Juno News - December 12, 2025

An Ontario school board is forcing parents to recite land acknowledgements

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