Juno News - Another MP Crosses the Floor

00:00:00.280 So, Alex, a lot of NHL news, especially with the big trade we saw today between Pittsburgh and Oilers,

00:00:06.080 but more interestingly, a story you've been all over this week and perhaps the biggest Vegas fan in Canada

00:00:11.820 because you've been watching all the games of Carter Hart there,

00:00:14.480 who was the first of the World Juniors accused and not guilty that returned to the league, I believe.

00:00:21.280 So, yeah, how's Hart been doing in Vegas as a goalie down there?

00:00:24.440 Pretty good. I mean, he hasn't played for two years, which is a really long time.

00:00:28.040 So, I'm surprised at how quickly he's acclimatized back to the NHL.

00:00:32.660 He's won two out of three games. All of them have gone to overtime.

00:00:36.160 So, yeah, he's done pretty good.

00:00:38.980 Yeah, do you think there are some, not only Canadian teams, but teams looking at his performance

00:00:43.760 and kind of regretting the decisions they made because a lot of teams were skeptical to re-sign him given the controversy?

00:00:51.040 I mean, I guess that would be a question for those teams' management, right?

00:00:54.900 I mean, I don't know for sure.

00:00:56.200 There's also, of course, all of the kind of PR nightmare that comes with, you know, the backlash.

00:01:02.920 I think Canadians pay a lot more attention to hockey than Americans do,

00:01:05.620 although Vegas does have a pretty committed fan base.

00:01:09.440 Here's a question you might actually know.

00:01:11.680 The other individuals that were involved in the Hockey Canada trial, where are they at?

00:01:16.280 Like, are any of them expected to come back to the league soon or anything around those lines?

00:01:20.480 So, Cal Foote, who is the defenseman accused of doing the splits over the complainant, which is kind of just ridiculous,

00:01:29.200 he has signed with the Chicago Wolves, which is an affiliate, I believe, of the Carolina Hurricanes.

00:01:34.340 I think it's an AHL contract, so I don't think that he can be called up to the NHL team at this time,

00:01:39.960 but still promising to see him back playing again.

00:01:42.680 Michael McLeod, he was the only player charged with two offenses.

00:01:46.920 He was also charged with party to an offense for inviting other players over for a three-way quick.

00:01:53.380 Also invited them over for food, interestingly enough.

00:01:57.280 He is playing in the KHL in Russia.

00:02:01.180 I actually, for reasons that I don't really want to get into, don't think that he'll ever play in the NHL again.

00:02:05.940 And Dylan Dubé is the only player who is an unrestricted free agent.

00:02:10.380 Doesn't seem like anybody in any league is interested in him for some reason.

00:02:14.220 He's the player accused of being the laugh, leave the bar, and also losing the championship trophy.

00:02:20.240 That seems a lot to me because I feel like Dubé was a good player.

00:02:24.000 So, do you think that these teams maybe know more information and that's why they're skeptical?

00:02:28.260 I don't know.

00:02:29.000 Yeah, it's hard to say.

00:02:30.300 I mean, yeah, it's really tough to say.

00:02:32.860 There's one other player, Alex Formington, he's playing in Switzerland, which is interesting for a lot of different reasons.

00:02:38.940 He actually has a pending lawsuit with his agent for like $21.5 million.

00:02:43.580 So, his courtroom drama is not quite over yet.

00:02:47.420 Well, I know people will be mad if we stay and sit for an hour and talk about hockey.

00:02:51.840 So, I'm Isaac Lamoureux.

00:02:53.380 I'd like to welcome my colleagues from True North, Alex Zoltan, and Waleed Tam Tam.

00:02:56.700 And let's hop right into things.

00:02:57.720 So, we'll start right off with the big, great thing story.

00:03:06.240 Another Conservative MP crossed the floor to the Liberals.

00:03:09.440 And, of course, this brings the Liberals within one seat.

00:03:15.120 And this was Ontario MP Michael Ma, who said, this is the most interesting part to me, Waleed.

00:03:21.820 He wrote this, but I'll say a few things.

00:03:23.980 He said it was because his constituents were telling him that, more or less.

00:03:29.880 But then I was like, okay, let's see if that tracks.

00:03:33.220 So, I looked at polling today on 338 Canada to see if, for example, in the riding, Markham Univille, the Liberals skyrocketed.

00:03:41.120 And that was not the case at all.

00:03:42.080 Between, for example, November 30th and then last week, the Conservatives went down 1%, and they're still clearly leading the Liberals.

00:03:50.560 So, I think that would be an unfair claim for him to make, at least based on polling.

00:03:55.580 Yeah, what else went on here, Waleed?

00:03:57.780 Yeah, well, this is a very interesting story because I would say, I mean, Chris Dantremont, the last forecaster, was known.

00:04:06.260 I mean, we knew who he was.

00:04:07.900 He was running as a Conservative for a number of elections, including the last one under Pierre Faliev.

00:04:13.620 He ran provincially for the PC party in Nova Scotia.

00:04:17.160 So, he has a career that has sustained, you know, actually a few decades.

00:04:21.980 In the case of Michael Ma, I think a lot of people are learning his name for the first time.

00:04:25.460 And looking at his background, I mean, this is his first time sitting in the House of Commons.

00:04:30.200 So, Pierre Faliev essentially gave him the job when they got him in the writing, and he won.

00:04:35.000 And, of course, this was the writing, if you guys remember, that had the concerned candidates, the two Chinese descendant candidates,

00:04:42.420 one of which was fired or resigned forcefully from his role as the candidate because of his ties to Beijing and to Beijing Front-linked organizations.

00:04:53.940 And, of course, even his book of commentary about how the Conservative candidate, Joe Tay, should have been or could have been taken into a Chinese consulate for a bounty on his head.

00:05:05.460 So, this was that situation going on.

00:05:07.420 And, of course, the writing elected him as a Conservative.

00:05:10.440 And, like you said, Isaac, I mean, the polling isn't looking too bad for those situations.

00:05:14.960 I actually think that both Dr. Ma and Michael Ma could last as Conservative if an election was held today.

00:05:20.320 I just think there's a bit more to the story.

00:05:22.780 And what's interesting about this one is that, I mean, this was just the day before where he had the Christmas party with the Liberals.

00:05:30.400 The day before that, he had a Christmas party with the Conservatives.

00:05:34.640 And he had a picture with himself, his wife, smiling with Pierre Paliev and Anida Paliev, Paliev's wife.

00:05:40.740 And, of course, you know, looking like everything was well in the House.

00:05:44.540 You know, he's pretty much a backbencher, nothing too crazy for a first-term MP.

00:05:49.320 But, overall, there's never really been a sign.

00:05:52.020 I mean, looking at the region, I think if you're thinking about Conservative defectors, you're looking at Quebec and the Atlantic East.

00:05:58.980 Specifically, you can see that's where you have the most amount of what you call red Tories.

00:06:03.540 Or at least those that are affiliated provincially with a more progressive tone of Conservative politics.

00:06:08.840 I mean, you know, Tim Houston doesn't go out and rally for Pierre.

00:06:12.320 Doug Ford doesn't either.

00:06:13.400 So, I guess you could even say the same thing about Ontario to that extent.

00:06:16.220 But I really feel like this was one where, you know, a lot of people didn't see it coming.

00:06:20.940 Because, like I said, we don't know who Michael Malm was.

00:06:23.580 So, I guess maybe not just listen to constituents, but maybe even someone on his team or himself just feel comfortable, you know, being on the government benches instead.

00:06:32.620 What's most interesting about this is, like it says in the title, one more seat and they can get a majority.

00:06:37.920 And that's going to change the dynamics of Parliament. 0.88

00:06:40.540 That's going to set the election date three more years or four more years further than it would have been given where we are now in the minority situation.

00:06:49.260 Even then, you know, we could argue that the Greens or the NDP or the Bloc or whoever wants to take a turn at it can still prop the government up for their own interests.

00:06:56.900 As we've experienced between 2019 and 2021, those sections where we had minority governments that probably outlasted their terms.

00:07:07.060 But, yeah, so it's all interesting stuff.

00:07:09.260 But, again, I think with consumers right now, they have a quite sour taste of the mouth.

00:07:13.160 Kind of wondering, you know, like how many of these people are properly politically vetted in the sense of, you know, do they really believe in the values that consider the party in leadership of Pierre Paliyev?

00:07:22.960 Or are they just like installed as candidates? And this is the question that I think a lot of disenfranchised conservative people have in Canada.

00:07:29.340 I'm sure you're here for this PPC argument about how the, you know, there's a union party in Canada.

00:07:34.100 Well, I think this argument is becoming more popular because, you know, you're looking at people like Chris D'Entremont and Michael Ma and asking yourself, you know, like what really makes these people stand out as conservatives?

00:07:43.100 If that's how easy they can flip off to a new party, to a new direction, under a new government and have major consequences.

00:07:49.500 I mean, Chris D'Entremont was budget time. Michael Ma is now post-budget time up leading up to leadership review of Pierre Paliyev.

00:07:56.300 I think Pierre is still safe as leader, but I still think that this is going to piss off a lot of conservative, you know, volunteers, donors, supporters.

00:08:03.540 Because the fact of the matter is they put a lot of energy and faith behind Pierre and the party and the party still made significant gains.

00:08:10.380 But to see the cracks open up and two MPs leave in a span of a month and a week, it kind of shows the fact that maybe there are some people that are on the ballot and there are some people who are in the House who aren't exactly subscribed to what they're advertising on their campaigns.

00:08:24.820 Yeah, Alex, I'll ask you something quick to loop you in here, because we've seen a lot of Canadians raise concerns about the fact that MPs can just cross the floor and there is no by-election forced.

00:08:38.180 Because I think that would change these dynamics, as you said, Waleed Ma, or the Conservative Party, more specifically, in that riding, would likely win an election.

00:08:45.220 So if a by-election were on the table, if you were to cross the floor and that was forced, I don't think that these two MPs may have made that decision.

00:08:53.700 And this is, in my opinion, a subversion of democracy, because how Canada politics work, you're not voting for the MP.

00:09:00.460 Like, let's be realistic. No one in that riding knows who that guy is.

00:09:03.040 They're not voting for the MP. They're voting for the federal Conservative Party.

00:09:05.780 Like, the MP is just kind of, like, in most cases, and I would say at least the majority of voters, specifically for myself, like, I would say many of these voters don't even know who the MP is.

00:09:17.240 It's like, I'm just going to vote for the Conservatives because I want, they're supporting the leader, Pierre Paliyev, and the party as a whole, more so than the MP.

00:09:23.380 So, Alex, I'm just surprised that, obviously, we've had our democracy as it is for some time or for a long time.

00:09:32.560 And I'm just surprised that this issue has never gotten big enough that it has been changed where a by-election is forced.

00:09:37.900 So, Alex, do you think maybe going forward that that would ever happen?

00:09:41.400 Because, obviously, the Liberals in their position, who are going to be the ones who benefit from this stuff happening, aren't going to change this law.

00:09:48.560 But do you think there's any way where we could, I guess, strengthen democracy and somehow pass a bill to force a by-election when someone crosses the floor?

00:09:58.020 I don't know. I mean, that would be kind of a higher level question.

00:10:04.600 I mean, a by-election is triggered if somebody resigns as opposed to crossing the floor.

00:10:09.500 So, there's already that function.

00:10:11.560 Is this, so I'm a little bit new to this story, so forgive me.

00:10:14.740 Is this the same writing that Han Dong used to represent?

00:10:18.360 Is this Dawn Valley North?

00:10:19.360 No, this was Markham Unionville.

00:10:24.000 Markham, okay.

00:10:24.940 Okay, but it's kind of in the same area, though.

00:10:26.920 It's like a very Chinese writing.

00:10:30.340 Is that right?

00:10:31.360 Yeah, you're absolutely right, 100%.

00:10:33.160 Yeah, because I do remember Paul Chang was the Liberal candidate, and he got turfed, as you were mentioning, Waleed, 1.00

00:10:39.000 because of the controversy where he said he was going to, yeah, collect a bounty on the Conservative candidate.

00:10:46.420 And what happened to the Conservative candidate, John Tay?

00:10:50.440 I believe, oh, actually, that's interesting.

00:10:53.920 Yeah, Joe Tay, wasn't that his name?

00:10:55.580 Did he not step aside, maybe?

00:10:57.640 I'm not sure, because there was a Conservative security at some point in time.

00:11:03.100 Interesting, interesting story.

00:11:05.280 Let me...

00:11:06.380 Yeah, because I feel like, wasn't it John Tay that was running against Paul Chang, and then, like, I'm just confused about where he went.

00:11:12.980 And, sorry, again, I'm not as familiar with this story as I probably should be.

00:11:17.140 So, exactly.

00:11:18.320 Actually, so this is where we got to correct the course.

00:11:20.400 So, this is Markham Union, the candidate that discussed the openness of, look, you can collect a bounty on Joe Tay's head.

00:11:28.380 That guy was running in the same writing as Michael Ma against Michael Ma at some point in time before he resigned.

00:11:34.280 Joe Tay was running in a different writing.

00:11:36.180 So, it wasn't his direct writing opponent, but it was definitely a partisan opponent.

00:11:40.740 And, for sure, on the most important frontier, definitely a dissident of the Chinese regime coming out of Hong Kong.

00:11:46.840 So, that's probably what matters the most.

00:11:48.540 But Michael Ma is a Hong Konger as well, no?

00:11:51.380 Yeah, he was born in Hong Kong, yes.

00:11:53.980 Yeah, no, Joe Tay was running in Don Valley North, but...

00:11:57.420 Okay, so that's where I got the confusion with the hand on, because that was previously his writing.

00:12:01.600 Okay.

00:12:02.800 We'll move on to our next story, which is, well, it was super interesting to me, at least, because...

00:12:08.520 And I'll ask a few things of you guys here, but the Liberals faced extreme backlash over an ex-post that was promoting free speech.

00:12:17.840 And they even had the hashtag, think before you share, on the post, which was super ironic, considering they got community noted for their post.

00:12:27.220 Because the post, essentially, and the video, which just, it didn't really have audio, just sound, or music, sorry, but it had text.

00:12:36.700 So, it was talking about foreign regimes, mass reporting posts to take them down, coordinating harassment, filing baseless legal threats, and essentially silencing online posts.

00:12:48.060 But then, of course, the community note there, as you showed, Jeff, it said, hey, the Liberals are actually doing this with Bill C-9.

00:12:56.400 So, kind of ironic there.

00:12:58.140 And then the thing I focused on for this article was the reaction to the post, because it got so widespread.

00:13:04.460 Even Conservative leader Pierre Pellievre commented on it, he quote-tweeted it, and he literally not just mentioned Bill C-9, but Bill C-11, which grants widespread censorship powers.

00:13:13.580 Bill C-18, the reason you can't see news on social media in Canada, and he went on and on.

00:13:18.820 So, I mean, other Conservative MPs did too.

00:13:22.780 Michelle Rempel-Garner, she shared a clip of a Liberal immigration head trying to essentially suggest that they should stop allowing MPs to share posts from the House of Commons, which is just absolutely ludicrous.

00:13:36.680 I mean, and it went on and on and on, even fans of, or colleagues of True North, like Rod Giltaka, the CEO, of course, of the Canadian Coalition for Firearms Rights.

00:13:48.180 He was saying, he said, isn't this exactly what you're doing to the Liberals?

00:13:52.540 And then a few Canadians too that I highlighted in the article.

00:13:56.420 For example, one user said, quote, it's what communists do, accuse others what you're guilty of.

00:14:01.160 And then there was the whole convoy aspect too.

00:14:05.560 Sheila Gunn-Reed, she went into it with some evidence.

00:14:08.940 She was talking about them suppressing evidence.

00:14:11.440 And then, of course, Tamara Leach got involved. 0.79

00:14:13.520 She was giving specific anecdotes, specific examples, like, here's what I went through.

00:14:17.720 Here's how I was suppressed by the Liberals.

00:14:19.260 Here's what the government did to me.

00:14:21.520 And, of course, Waleed, you've been on the Bill C-9 beat a lot.

00:14:24.880 But I did want to ask you guys something a bit more chill beforehand, because I see posts, and I'm sure you do too, every day that are from not just political parties, but politicians that are so clearly not true.

00:14:38.460 And they're not community noted.

00:14:40.020 So, yeah, what do you guys think of the whole community note in general on X and maybe the consistency of it and what we see from it?

00:14:47.760 Well, I will tell you, and I'll speak on behalf of myself, because I, myself, am actually a member of the community note kind of, I don't know, feedback team or, but I'm someone that typically awaits the effectiveness and purpose of community notes, which effectively gives it its placement on some posts.

00:15:06.240 So, for those that are not, you will either see a community note if it's already been given the thumbs up.

00:15:11.200 But I can say sometimes, well, it's still in the process of being built up by the user base and the algorithm.

00:15:16.200 So, I think, frankly, from an informational standpoint, I don't think it takes as long as, and this is the condition for me, as long as it doesn't take away from the original content.

00:15:26.160 So, if you have a photo of something, even if you want a meme, troll, spread disinformation, or spread real information, where you might be accused of disinformation in some cases, especially in the political sphere, you have your image, you have your text, you have your information.

00:15:39.980 But then you have an additional subtext somewhere outside of the frame of the message or the image or the text, which can then provide for the context for the reader.

00:15:49.700 I think it's fine because one doesn't take away from the other.

00:15:52.140 Now, what information is coming from the text also matters by itself.

00:15:57.440 So, the formatting is one thing.

00:15:59.700 The next part that concerns me as well is, you know, because we saw YouTube apply a very similar policy where they had, you know, information, but it wasn't based off of user data or based off of open source data.

00:16:09.880 It was typically based off direct government interference.

00:16:13.080 The governments of some countries would like to indicate information to the users about COVID.

00:16:16.960 So, if ever you had mentioned anything about COVID during the video, you'd have that COVID-19 sublet.

00:16:21.820 You had something about climate change.

00:16:23.180 I know because my last couple of videos at COP30 last month had that little climate change UN link attached right on the bottom, which I'm sure a lot of our users weren't happily or our viewers rather weren't happy to see because, of course, that's straight up, you know, institutional propaganda at that point.

00:16:38.980 So, I think what really matters is where is that information coming from and how is it being displayed?

00:16:43.720 I think Twitter is getting the, or X rather, is getting the model right because it's being a bit more democratic than any other platform that I've seen at that similar scale.

00:16:51.560 So, I think for the most part, it's been good.

00:16:53.660 Sometimes, you know, you want to get close to information and understand exactly if this is like, you know, some rage bait, as we say nowadays.

00:17:00.220 I don't know if people are very familiar with the trend, but whenever someone says feeling absurd just for the sake of provoking, you know, an angry reaction from the user base, you know, you want to get to the facts real quickly.

00:17:09.920 That can be helpful sometimes.

00:17:10.900 Other times, there might be things where context matters, you know, there might be some accusations out there.

00:17:15.200 And I think sometimes even users that have posted false information accidentally could appreciate it because while they might be ratioed, while there might be like, you know, those retweets where they, you know, gotcha, at the end of the day, it gives you the opportunity to take down or to react responsibly over what you're actually posting out there.

00:17:31.880 So, I think the community health model is good, I think, and I hope, hopefully, it will stay.

00:17:36.900 And other platforms might consider that as an alternative to the other more draconian, top-down approaches of just feeding us government propaganda.

00:17:44.520 Yeah, Alex, I'd love to get your thoughts because you're sort of an ex-celebrity.

00:17:49.300 But, no, something that just came to mind when Waleed was talking there is last week, for some reason, everyone was, or I kept seeing the NHL video from 2021 where they were doing some sort of Indigenous thing based on the graves.

00:18:02.920 Of course, they were never found.

00:18:04.040 There is no graves.

00:18:05.240 No bodies have been found at these residential schools.

00:18:07.080 And this was based on, of course, the CBC article that itself, I think, got community noted because they were saying that there were graves, and that's not true.

00:18:16.460 But the NHL video, interestingly, this was from May 2021, and it was, yeah, some Indigenous celebration at some game was not community noted, so I found that interesting.

00:18:26.960 But, yeah, Alex, given your presence on X, I'm wondering if you have any similar anecdotes or thoughts.

00:18:32.660 Yeah, I mean, I'm also a community note.

00:18:34.640 I don't know, is there a name for it, like, curator?

00:18:39.500 So, yeah, I mean, I don't typically rate the notes very often.

00:18:44.200 I do find community notes a little annoying sometimes.

00:18:46.880 Like, opinions belong in the replies.

00:18:49.420 And a lot of times, community notes will just be opinions, which I find kind of defeats the purpose.

00:18:56.820 Bill C9, if we can kind of return to that.

00:18:59.800 I just think that's, like, super, super interesting.

00:19:01.740 I don't know if anybody's been watching the Justice Committee where this bill is being debated, but it is by far the funniest and most dysfunctional House Committee of all time.

00:19:11.020 It has reached such a plateau of absurdity that, like, all of the conservatives have brought in their holy books, which is, like, quite interesting.

00:19:21.980 I don't know if that's against House rules to bring in props, but, you know, like, Andrew Lawton's got his holy Bible and Roman Baber has his Torah.

00:19:29.800 And it's really, really interesting because, basically, what they're doing is they're bringing in the holy books to show that this Bill C9 is an attack on free speech and, in particular, free speech that is, I guess you'd say, espoused in the context of religious text.

00:19:45.900 And so, yeah, I just think that this is such a funny thing that, you know, the government of Canada, on the one hand, is saying that they're a proponent of free speech, but then, on the other hand, they're also trying to censor Canadians, including, like, what should be a fundamental right, which is your ability to speak to the text that you believe in, right?

00:20:06.000 I mean, faith is a fundamental freedom.

00:20:10.600 Anyone claiming the liberals are a proponent of free speech, I mean, you've got to be, you've lost the plot.

00:20:15.780 That's just not the case.

00:20:16.840 I mean, there's ample evidence against that not being the case with Bill C9 and Online Harms Act.

00:20:22.440 And, I mean, there's just so many examples.

00:20:24.020 I mean, over the years, it's just not been true.

00:20:26.820 But think, we would like to move to our, oh, sorry.

00:20:30.260 Yeah, just if I can add one more thing.

00:20:31.680 I mean, it's kind of interesting because Bill C9, it really seems aimed at banning swastikas. 0.98

00:20:37.000 And that, to me, is, like, really amusing.

00:20:39.520 Not because swastikas are amusing. 1.00

00:20:41.320 Of course, they're a terrible symbol, and they have a terrible history.

00:20:44.380 But swastikas are already illegal.

00:20:47.100 There's a really great example, actually, from Andrew Lawton, a True North alumni.

00:20:50.880 His writing, somebody mowed a swastika into their front lawn, and they have been charged with hate speech.

00:20:59.620 So, the law is already adequate enough.

00:21:02.620 I don't know, like, how, what is the purpose of this bill, exactly?

00:21:05.720 To make swastikas more illegal than they already are? 0.98

00:21:09.420 Yeah, no, it's funny you mentioned that, too, Alex, because there was a story from Brooks in Alberta that dropped last week.

00:21:14.240 It was the same thing.

00:21:14.920 Like, people were drawing swastikas, and they were, like, charged, I'm pretty sure.

00:21:18.480 Like, you just can't do that.

00:21:19.920 And it may have been more than just a swastika.

00:21:23.340 Like, there may have been actually Nazi symbolism, because a swastika in itself, while symbolizing the Nazis, has other meanings, as we know historically.

00:21:29.860 Yeah, of course.

00:21:30.680 Yeah, it's a holy symbol for some religions.

00:21:33.560 Hinduism, as a good example. 0.99

00:21:36.420 So, yeah, I mean, but that's one of the reasons that people are against this bill, including Hindus, right? 1.00

00:21:41.180 They're saying that, especially if you remove this religious exemption for free speech, I mean, are Hindus going to go to jail because they're displaying swastikas, even though it's completely out of context?

00:21:50.640 Like, it has nothing to do with Nazi Germany.

00:21:52.920 I just don't know what the purpose of this bill is.

00:21:55.260 And there are so many other priorities that we should be looking at in terms of criminal justice and human rights.

00:22:02.440 It's just the most baffling thing I've seen.

00:22:05.200 If I can chime in, I just want to say that I think there's always a great discrepancy between the raison d'etre or the reason why this bill is being pushed by so-called liberals.

00:22:17.680 And, of course, this is, I think, where liberals have lost credibility in terms of deliberalizing social media, the media overall, and, of course, the public domain of expression.

00:22:28.140 Whether we're talking about swastikas or not, I already think the laws are probably a little bit too far in some cases.

00:22:32.680 I mean, being charged for symbolism, even as hateful as it can be, I think, is still, it's a bad direction to be heading in.

00:22:40.420 But now you have, of course, it is true.

00:22:42.840 You've seen, you know, we've all observed from different studies and different reporting that we've covered even ourselves,

00:22:48.660 that there has been a rise of anti-Semitic incidents in Canada.

00:22:51.800 There has been a rise of hate crimes for warts in communities in some cases.

00:22:55.260 I mean, there just has been this pool of sectarianism, partially, in my opinion, flooded by demographics.

00:23:01.540 Because now you have, the minorities aren't actually so small as they used to be. 1.00

00:23:05.420 And they're actually much more frequent.

00:23:07.080 And their counterparts from wherever they're from are also here.

00:23:10.340 And there's those dividing lines of nationality, religion, ethnicity.

00:23:13.740 Wherever they happen to be in the world, they happen to be present in Canada.

00:23:16.660 I think every country, every major country on earth, at least, and every major religion on earth, has a diasporic presence in Canada.

00:23:22.840 Which means, for all the conflicts that are out there, there's somewhere where that show can start to play off in Canada.

00:23:30.140 And that's actually a very important thing to understand in terms of how we're heading towards a country without borders.

00:23:36.340 I mean, yes, we might have kind of some set of a frontier, you know, ports of entries, airports, you know, a border marked on a map.

00:23:43.960 But in terms of how we're able to fend away the kind of, you know, nonsense, sectarianism, hatred, ideologies that are, you know, ruining other parts of the world.

00:23:54.460 It's becoming very hard because, of course, like, you know, we've covered many times, these diaspora groups are well pronounced and are in big numbers with a lot of power, politically speaking.

00:24:05.700 And they're able to operate the way they were operating before.

00:24:08.840 Or actually, in some cases, as we discussed, especially on the Sikh issue or other kinds of issues, even more.

00:24:13.920 Because of our liberal democracy, they're able to amplify their voices more and say, I mean, incredible nonsense.

00:24:19.960 I mean, there was that Sikh activist I covered, I think it was two or three weeks ago, that spoke on the CTV talking about, you know, the whole Khalistan Sikh referendum that happened in Canada.

00:24:30.220 I think 50,000 people voted in Ottawa.

00:24:32.340 But specifically that individual, someone that has called on, like, the death of the Indian Prime Minister, who was called for the deportation of Hindus from Canada and telling them to go back to their country, although he shares the same country of heritage as them.

00:24:45.400 I mean, it's really funny stuff sometimes, but ultimately, taking it back to the point of hatred, I mean, hatred is there, it's increasing, and definitely there might be an appetite to see things change.

00:24:55.160 But that's not the way you're going to get any change.

00:24:57.160 I don't think C9 or taking down a few people, you know, to a jail cell for a swatika or for a tweet or for reciting certain verses of any religious text is going to make much of a difference, 0.75

00:25:08.960 provided that it is enforced the way they were telling us it's going to be enforced.

00:25:13.520 As it's written in paper, and as the C9 amendment that Bloc and Liberals have agreed on now, I actually think it's completely a Quebec-based theory of religious hatred is the source of what we're dealing with here.

00:25:27.300 That is, in some case, but it's not the whole story, unfortunately.

00:25:30.300 And I'm sorry to continue beating this dead horse, but this Bill C9 thing, there's often a discussion in legal circles when a bill is being proposed, is this supposed to be a shield or a sword?

00:25:42.140 And in this case, it does seem like the Liberals are designing Bill C9 to be a sword rather than a shield.

00:25:49.580 And a good example of that was when Mark Miller said that sections of Leviticus, which crosses across two religions, because it's in the Old Testament,

00:25:57.640 he says that Leviticus is hate speech.

00:26:01.600 And that there are certain sections of Leviticus, specifically that like, you know, man shall not sleep with man or whatever it happens to be in my Bible.

00:26:08.320 Knowledge is not as sharp as it should be.

00:26:10.080 But this is what I find just completely absurd, right?

00:26:13.600 I mean, it almost seems like the government is not using this to shield people from hate speech.

00:26:18.020 They're using it to attack people who espouse speech that they don't like.

00:26:22.180 Yeah, Alex, you said it's a sword.

00:26:24.360 To me, it's more like a bludgeon, and they're going to hammer us over the head with it.

00:26:28.860 But sticking with law in a way, Alex, you wrote an interesting piece about BC and safe supply.

00:26:36.220 And look, Alex, honestly, man, over the years, I've heard time and again, BC is changing course or backtracking on safe supply.

00:26:45.240 But it's just not the case, because it still is there.

00:26:48.440 So it's like, what is actually going on?

00:26:50.500 And talk to us, too, about this charter challenge, the constitutional aspect of it.

00:26:55.500 What's happening there in BC right now?

00:26:57.340 Oh, man, how much time do we have?

00:26:58.860 I'm so neck deep in this story.

00:27:02.120 I've been attending this trial every day for the last two or three weeks.

00:27:06.280 So it relates to a group called DOLF.

00:27:09.360 And DOLF stands for the Drug User Liberation Front.

00:27:12.660 So this was two individuals in Vancouver.

00:27:15.640 They're actually very intelligent and very well-spoken.

00:27:19.240 I watched them be cross-examined at the BC Supreme Court.

00:27:22.180 They're a little eccentric.

00:27:23.760 I mean, one of them, his name is Jeremy Vladimir Calicum.

00:27:26.860 He's very, very clean cut.

00:27:28.220 But I don't even think, like, he doesn't present as a drug user.

00:27:31.600 And then he's got this friend who's, you know, this trans individual who's really kind of kooky, I guess. 1.00

00:27:38.520 Eccentric is probably the best word to use, which is kind of a mess.

00:27:42.440 And between the two of them, they're really weird bedfellows.

00:27:46.260 They decided that they were going to procure cocaine, heroin, and meth off of the dark web

00:27:51.120 and then test it to ensure that the drugs were pure and then sell it to a cohort of individuals.

00:27:56.060 So they would be less likely to overdose.

00:27:59.340 There is actually some logic and reasoning here because one of the reasons that so many people are overdosing,

00:28:04.760 specifically in BC, is because of the volatile street drug supply.

00:28:08.820 So as an example, if you're a cocaine user, which I don't recommend,

00:28:12.100 5% of your cocaine, if it's laced with fentanyl, and then the next week it's laced with 35% fentanyl,

00:28:20.160 you don't really know how to dose.

00:28:22.060 And that's especially true with drugs like heroin.

00:28:24.580 And so there is some logic here.

00:28:27.480 And really, it's, like, kind of modeled after the BC government's Safe Supply Program,

00:28:31.300 which offers typically pharmaceutical synthetic opioids like hydromorphone or Dilaudid.

00:28:36.460 I've learned a lot about drugs through this case.

00:28:39.680 Like, I feel like I have, like, a degree in drug dealing just from attending this court hearing.

00:28:45.220 You get a degree in that now?

00:28:47.240 Yeah, if you wanted to learn how to become a drug dealer, this would be a really great trial to follow.

00:28:52.140 So basically what happened, they're guilty.

00:28:54.780 I mean, they've both been charged and convicted of three counts each,

00:28:58.780 one for each of the drugs, cocaine, heroin, and meth.

00:29:01.700 But they're presenting now a charter challenge.

00:29:04.180 So their sentencing is held in advance.

00:29:06.320 And the charter challenge is basically two-pronged.

00:29:08.520 The first prong is under Section 7 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms,

00:29:12.240 which allows everybody to have the life, liberty, and security of person.

00:29:16.280 It's kind of our equivalent to the American life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

00:29:20.860 Is that right?

00:29:21.800 False.

00:29:22.660 Yeah.

00:29:22.880 So, yeah, they were basically saying that to deprive drug users of the right to do clean drugs,

00:29:30.600 which I'm putting in very bold bunny ears,

00:29:34.520 is to deprive them of their Section 7 right to life, liberty, and the security of person.

00:29:38.460 There's also an auxiliary charter challenge under Section 15,

00:29:41.480 which is that individuals are free from discrimination,

00:29:44.220 including discrimination on the basis of disability.

00:29:47.160 Interesting fact, I learned as well through this trial,

00:29:49.580 severe substance abuse disorder, which basically means being a drug addict,

00:29:53.320 is classified as a disability in Canada.

00:29:56.360 And it has been for a very long time.

00:29:58.920 And so the implications of this case are huge.

00:30:01.780 Because if the charter challenge stands, it would almost suggest,

00:30:05.620 and I'm not a lawyer, and I'm not an expert in drugs,

00:30:08.420 but it would almost suggest that individuals would be protected under the charter

00:30:11.860 for dealing drugs as long as they were properly tested.

00:30:16.700 Just tell me, Alex, how this intertwines with safe supply.

00:30:20.320 Sure.

00:30:20.640 So what, like, obviously based on what the ruling is,

00:30:24.280 how that will affect safe supply and taxpayer-funded drugs in B.C., right?

00:30:29.940 Yeah, that's a really good question.

00:30:31.500 So what is happening with this case is, and actually it has come up many times,

00:30:36.500 is they're essentially trying to enshrine at the judiciary level

00:30:39.760 the right for governments to provide safe supply.

00:30:42.800 So this is another really, really bizarre part of this case,

00:30:46.560 is that these two individuals, they're very well educated.

00:30:50.520 They applied to the Health Canada for a Section 56 exemption.

00:30:55.260 That's the same exemption that is given to institutions like Insight, for instance, right?

00:31:00.640 That's why the police can't go into, you know, Insight.

00:31:02.980 That's a safe injection site.

00:31:04.140 Again, it's an oxymoron, I know.

00:31:06.860 There is no such thing as safe injection, but whatever.

00:31:08.880 I'm going to use their nomenclature because I'm not aware of any other phrases

00:31:13.700 on how to describe these things.

00:31:15.120 You'd call it a drug den.

00:31:17.040 It's probably more accurate, a shooting gallery, whatever.

00:31:20.240 So basically the government can't go in and arrest everybody in a safe injection site 0.74

00:31:25.380 because they have the Section 56 exemption.

00:31:27.880 So they applied for that, and Health Canada said no.

00:31:30.640 So then they went to the provincial government, and they said,

00:31:32.580 would you support this project?

00:31:33.940 And the David E.B. NDP government was like, sure.

00:31:36.260 And then they said, can we have $200,000?

00:31:40.280 And the B.C. government said, sure.

00:31:41.960 What do you want that for?

00:31:42.800 They said, well, to buy cocaine, heroin, and meth, of course.

00:31:45.140 And the government said, yeah, no problem.

00:31:48.300 What?

00:31:49.360 Yeah, so they paid these two individuals to do this,

00:31:53.380 and now they're charging them criminally, and they have been convicted.

00:31:57.940 And now we have this charter challenge, which is probably costing the taxpayers a small fortune.

00:32:03.220 Is that not a good enough defense?

00:32:04.580 I mean, the provincial government paid us to do this, and now you're charging us.

00:32:07.800 This is insane.

00:32:08.780 Yeah, and just to be clear, just to be as factual as possible about this,

00:32:13.140 in the trial they said that the $200,000 was used purely for staffing.

00:32:17.280 It sounds like they raised the money to buy the drugs through almost like a co-op model.

00:32:21.780 It's kind of like a credit union for cocaine.

00:32:23.600 It's really, like, it's just the strangest case.

00:32:27.180 And, yeah, so in terms of safe supply, we do have a safe supply program in B.C.

00:32:33.600 where individuals can get a prescription.

00:32:35.940 You know, if they do have a severe opioid use disorder,

00:32:39.100 they can get a prescription from their doctor, and they can be given Dilaudid.

00:32:42.700 The issue with that was diversion, right?

00:32:46.280 A lot of people were taking their Dilaudid and selling it on the street or selling it to kids,

00:32:51.020 which is incredibly dangerous, and then using the money that they got from their Dilaudid to buy fentanyl.

00:32:57.820 This brings up another major issue with DOLF, which is that DOLF is almost already outdated.

00:33:02.640 The drugs have basically outpaced DOLF.

00:33:05.820 So a lot of the – they did these studies, these qualitative studies.

00:33:09.400 They basically did a survey of the DOLF cohort group, and they said,

00:33:12.920 do you enjoy this program?

00:33:15.040 And unsurprisingly, most of the drug addicts did.

00:33:17.460 But some of them, actually more than half, I believe it was, that bothered to answer the survey,

00:33:23.080 said that the drugs weren't strong enough.

00:33:25.120 They said, we don't want heroin, we want fentanyl.

00:33:27.280 And we don't want cocaine, we want crack.

00:33:31.080 Crazy stuff. 0.80

00:33:32.080 But switching from shooting up drugs to just shooting bullets,

00:33:36.120 yeah, there was perhaps an unlikely area, let's say, or location that people might think of

00:33:44.860 when you're thinking of the federal firearms confiscation program.

00:33:47.440 But an interesting story came out of Charlottetown when their city council voted 10 to 0

00:33:52.380 against essentially implementing the federal gun confiscation scheme.

00:33:57.200 And I was looking at this, the motion, the vote, the debate.

00:34:00.660 It was pretty interesting. 0.87

00:34:02.060 There were a few ridiculous things in the motion.

00:34:05.360 For example, it claimed that the participation in the program would be fully compensated.

00:34:10.160 The city would not incur any costs.

00:34:12.140 I mean, maybe true but misleading because we're all federal taxpayers.

00:34:16.440 So if the taxpayers are paying federally, you are paying as a city.

00:34:19.900 The municipal police force would have to be implementing it.

00:34:22.180 So they're at the very least reallocating their resources.

00:34:26.580 So again, I mean, that was a bit questionable.

00:34:29.460 And of course, this vote came just weeks after the federal gun program was piloted in Cape Breton,

00:34:35.500 which was an absolute atrocity.

00:34:39.640 They collected 22 firearms, which costed taxpayers around $7,000 per firearm collected

00:34:46.480 because of the total cost.

00:34:47.500 And they only got 22 of them.

00:34:49.200 Because of course, as we know, the liberals have been saying this is voluntary.

00:34:52.900 But of course, when the amnesty ends, you will be liable to five years in prison for possessing an illegal firearm.

00:35:00.680 And a few other interesting things.

00:35:03.080 The Charlottetown Council there, they revealed that they have 927 POWs in the city and an estimated 132 restricted firearms.

00:35:11.740 So again, even if they did enforce this, I'm sure they would have collected like a handful of firearms out of 132.

00:35:21.100 But it was interesting watching the city council debate because a lot of the councillors seemed pretty knowledgeable of the program,

00:35:27.520 which I think is important, especially for True North and where we've been throughout this program in our reporting

00:35:36.080 and how vocal we've been about it.

00:35:38.580 For example, one of the councillors, Justin Mudart, he said that there was considerable misinformation in the media

00:35:46.840 and on social platforms regarding the program, specifically around what assault-style firearms are.

00:35:53.460 Because of course, we've seen the liberals say that this is going to ban assault-style firearms.

00:35:57.480 But then we've seen experts like Rod Giltaka, who I mentioned earlier, the CEO of the CCFR,

00:36:02.820 he said there are no assault rifles that are on the list.

00:36:05.320 So it's really hunting rifles, sports shooting rifles.

00:36:08.620 These aren't M4 automatic rifles that you're thinking about in video games.

00:36:13.040 It's not the case at all.

00:36:16.040 And yeah, no, there was, I mean, I could talk about the firearm program forever.

00:36:21.380 But what I did find interesting, because this is a Charlottetown city council,

00:36:26.280 like I don't imagine they have people going to these hearings in person.

00:36:30.280 But for this one, there was a small gallery, a small crowd, which may have been the first time that that ever happened.

00:36:38.880 And there was an applause when they voted 10-0 against the motion.

00:36:43.160 Do we have that clip that we can?

00:36:45.320 In relation to the assault firearms compensation.

00:36:48.160 So it's affirmative resolution.

00:36:51.420 All those in favor of it.

00:36:53.680 All those against.

00:36:55.880 10-0.

00:36:56.560 So yeah, I'll ask you guys this, because we've obviously seen,

00:37:16.220 and this is another thing one of the councillors mentioned,

00:37:18.120 every jurisdiction in Canada, aside from two, have said no to this.

00:37:22.880 Provincial police organizations are saying no.

00:37:24.900 Provinces as a whole, Saskatchewan, Alberta, the list is lengthy, saying no.

00:37:28.300 Now municipalities, saying no.

00:37:29.980 Everyone's saying we're not doing this.

00:37:31.580 The federal government, the Liberals, specifically Public Safety Minister Gary Nandasangri,

00:37:35.840 are still trying to push forward with it, but it's not entirely their jurisdiction per se.

00:37:41.480 So what do you think it says about the fact that we're just seeing,

00:37:45.440 from every jurisdictional aspect aside from the Liberals,

00:37:48.060 are saying no to this program, that all we've seen is waste taxpayers' money

00:37:53.100 and fail in almost every metric.

00:37:57.520 Hasn't this costed like a billion dollars?

00:38:00.080 Yeah.

00:38:00.560 Well, they're saying it's going to cost, the costs vary,

00:38:04.040 but some people say like $750 million, some it's in the billions.

00:38:07.060 It's already costed hundreds of millions.

00:38:08.780 And of course, what have they collected so far?

00:38:10.800 22 firearms?

00:38:11.640 That's over like five years.

00:38:12.760 They haven't collected any, and it's costed hundreds of millions

00:38:15.620 in administrative, bureaucratic, like ridiculous fees.

00:38:19.100 But I mean, look, it's the federal government, guys.

00:38:21.900 What do you want me to say?

00:38:23.160 There is no such thing as a project that a private company could not do

00:38:27.300 like a tenth of the cost of the federal government.

00:38:29.640 All they do is bloat costs.

00:38:32.340 That's the main skill that they have.

00:38:35.180 So yeah, no, it's going to cost billions, Alex.

00:38:37.320 Also in the Justice Committee, I believe it was the head of the Toronto Police Association

00:38:42.400 who said that this gun confiscation program will have absolutely no impact on crime.

00:38:48.020 Well, Alex, that's what all the police associations have been saying,

00:38:50.620 and the data supports it.

00:38:52.040 When you look at the crimes, and I'm sure you have the crimes,

00:38:54.140 it's like 99%, 99%, 99% illegally smuggled firearms from the United States.

00:38:59.480 These are not, the last time even a law-abiding firearm owner committed,

00:39:02.880 I mean, it's such a small, like we're talking about less than a percentage,

00:39:06.020 like in the 0.00 percentages of legal firearms ever being used to commit a crime.

00:39:11.640 That's not what the problem is.

00:39:13.580 And this is more or less from what we can tell at this point

00:39:17.020 to appease Quebec, to appease Natalie Provost.

00:39:20.220 There's no one else who wants this to happen.

00:39:22.020 Let's be realistic.

00:39:22.860 Well, wasn't this program originally spearheaded by Bill Blair

00:39:25.740 in response to the Nova Scotia shooting?

00:39:28.460 Yes.

00:39:28.600 Which is, sadly, I mean, so many people died.

00:39:32.040 It feels like a distant memory now.

00:39:33.400 Yeah, and yeah, obviously, Provost was deeply affected by that,

00:39:38.460 which is why she's so passionate about this,

00:39:39.980 but that her emotion doesn't change the facts,

00:39:42.200 which is that this is utter failure and will do nothing to address crime

00:39:45.300 when we could actually be addressing crime by implementing bail reform.

00:39:49.720 I mean, let's be realistic.

00:39:50.660 That's what the problem is.

00:39:51.960 The people committing crimes can't be sent to jail.

00:39:54.220 The police are saying we have no power.

00:39:55.580 The judges are saying we have no power.

00:39:57.440 The criminals are not in jail.

00:39:59.240 They're committing crimes.

00:40:00.180 It's the same people over and over again,

00:40:01.500 and they keep getting let out, I mean.

00:40:03.780 And as for the guns, yeah, like I said,

00:40:06.180 these are not legal firearms, so.

00:40:09.640 But I'm happy to see from an anti-federal gun confiscation scheme aspect

00:40:15.780 that Charlottetown, because, you know, it's Charlottetown.

00:40:19.800 I don't know that I would consider them conservative by any means,

00:40:22.260 and them voting against this was something.

00:40:28.040 But sticking with eastern places, I guess.

00:40:33.080 Yeah, no, the CTF is warning the Ottawa residents, I suppose,

00:40:41.060 that the Ottawa senators are trying to force the city, the province,

00:40:45.640 or whomever, to pay for the arena, which this stood out to me, of course,

00:40:51.200 because such a similar situation occurred in Calgary

00:40:54.520 when they were building their arena and trying to get funding by the city

00:40:59.320 and the province, which they did, by the way.

00:41:01.100 And that arena is expected to cost, in Calgary,

00:41:03.860 more than $1.2 billion,

00:41:06.420 which was funded $537 million by the city

00:41:10.300 and $356 million from the owners of the Flames.

00:41:13.680 That's for the one in Calgary.

00:41:14.820 As for the one in Ottawa,

00:41:16.720 I think it's expected to cost similar.

00:41:20.900 And it's funny, the senators as a whole,

00:41:23.180 the team itself, is valued at $1.2 billion.

00:41:26.440 So I guess that might double their value,

00:41:32.420 if you count the assets, I don't know.

00:41:34.360 But, yeah, obviously we saw the CTF pushing back on this

00:41:37.880 because they're calling for taxpayer money to offset expenses

00:41:42.000 that would otherwise be covered by the team.

00:41:44.480 And we've seen this, as I said, be a recurring theme in the NHL

00:41:47.740 where these billionaire owners don't want to build the arenas.

00:41:51.520 They want the taxpayers to do it for them,

00:41:54.780 which is at the very least questionable from a taxpayer perspective.

00:41:59.960 A few things that the CTF highlighted,

00:42:02.000 the Canadian Taxpayers Federation, some data.

00:42:04.720 They, of course, highlighted, and as we well know,

00:42:09.100 that federal government debt is expected to reach $1.35 trillion

00:42:12.780 by the end of this year,

00:42:14.160 and Ontario government is $459 billion in debt.

00:42:17.820 So going further into debt to pay for this arena,

00:42:20.460 I'm not sure what the ROI on that will be like.

00:42:24.800 And, of course, yeah, Doug Ford,

00:42:26.920 he's always been in controversy when it comes to taxpayer spending too.

00:42:30.720 Do you guys think there's any chance, I guess,

00:42:35.780 that pushback from taxpayer advocates like the CTF

00:42:39.240 actually affect the outcomes of these funding arrangements?

00:42:44.740 I think it brings a lot of awareness,

00:42:46.720 and that's what I really appreciate from a taxpayer's perspective,

00:42:50.480 the fact that you have this conversation happening.

00:42:52.740 You know, we had this situation with the Olympics at a certain time.

00:42:56.160 The World Cup is bringing up these anxieties to some people in Vancouver and Toronto.

00:43:00.280 It's like, you know, for all the greatness in the sports industry,

00:43:03.500 it's a mega-rich industry.

00:43:04.680 There's massive capital in that industry from only,

00:43:07.480 not only the fans, but from advertising companies,

00:43:09.820 from businesses, from the TV and media business.

00:43:12.540 And it's like, you know, do they really need that money in the first place

00:43:15.760 is the big question a lot of people have.

00:43:17.600 And, of course, priorities as well.

00:43:19.460 I mean, looking at Ottawa, in particular, the capital,

00:43:21.820 where I've lived for so long,

00:43:22.900 I think there's a lot more things you can spend our money on than a stadium.

00:43:26.740 I think the Ottawa Senators have a fine arena in the West End.

00:43:30.620 Probably the best thing about the stadium is that it's actually outside of the city

00:43:34.500 a little bit, so it doesn't have to, you know,

00:43:36.880 it depends on where you're coming from,

00:43:37.940 but you may not always have to experience traffic when driving to the stadium.

00:43:41.620 Of course, again, exiting the sports sphere,

00:43:44.540 because this really is not a sports topic.

00:43:46.180 This is much more about the economic standpoint of the city

00:43:49.060 and whether or not these subsidies make sense.

00:43:51.800 I think sports companies, in many cases in the United States,

00:43:55.500 do ask and sometimes do get grants from the government.

00:43:58.840 But very often, you know, that's because that franchise has a great anchor to the city.

00:44:04.040 I think the Senators do.

00:44:05.320 So, you know, you've seen teams move around before

00:44:07.660 in North American sports from city to city sometimes,

00:44:10.040 but it doesn't really happen anymore.

00:44:11.700 I think the Senators are grounded,

00:44:12.940 and I think this definitely is not a hard move.

00:44:15.220 I mean, because, you know, if you're in Ottawa

00:44:16.380 and you're not so far away from the Fed,

00:44:18.460 and you can get these kinds of money and grant approvals

00:44:21.380 quite easily through the political backdoor, as they say.

00:44:24.040 So, I can expect that this deal could somehow still include element of public funds,

00:44:30.180 unfortunately, for the taxpayers of Ottawa,

00:44:32.380 but, of course, for the cost of the country

00:44:33.820 and cost of the province of Ontario as well.

00:44:36.080 But, again, I think with declining viewership,

00:44:39.700 I don't know what the fiscal situation of the NHL is,

00:44:42.400 or the Senators specifically.

00:44:43.900 I don't know if they're doing worse financially today.

00:44:46.640 I haven't followed them since Eric Carlson left,

00:44:49.080 so I would assume that if they're asking for this money,

00:44:52.040 because they're, yeah, exactly.

00:44:53.820 It's been a while, hasn't it?

00:44:55.780 The NHL is doing fine, but, yeah, as for the Ottawa,

00:44:58.560 the NHL has, like, an extra billionaire, as for Ottawa.

00:45:03.080 I don't know what the cash flow is looking like for the Senators,

00:45:05.500 but regardless, I mean, if a team does bad,

00:45:08.200 or, you know, if sports business isn't doing well,

00:45:10.540 it is not at all the responsibility of the general taxpayer.

00:45:14.700 They already have members, they have corporate sponsors,

00:45:17.720 they have fans, and that should be enough to hold them up.

00:45:20.480 And if they can't be held up enough,

00:45:22.040 then, you know what, it's time to pack the bags and move elsewhere.

00:45:24.540 I don't think the Senators are leaving anytime soon,

00:45:26.660 but I definitely think that the tax dollars are wholly unjustified.

00:45:30.960 And this goes, by the way, for every single sports venue

00:45:33.440 that we have in the country.

00:45:35.100 None of it should be publicly taxed.

00:45:36.760 Yeah, Willie, we had a very similar controversy in Edmonton, of course,

00:45:40.220 because Daryl Cates is the owner of the Oilers,

00:45:42.160 and he's probably, like, a top 10 richest person in Canada.

00:45:45.320 So people are like,

00:45:46.100 you're trying to get the taxpayers to pay for this?

00:45:47.940 You're a multibillionaire.

00:45:48.980 I mean, you are one of the richest people in the world, even.

00:45:52.160 So I don't know who owns the Ottawa Senators,

00:45:55.180 but I'm guessing just because you own an NHL team,

00:45:57.740 you're probably a billionaire as well.

00:45:59.860 So, and again, like I said,

00:46:01.760 if you want a new arena for whatever purpose that would be,

00:46:03.840 you have to do the fiscal analysis,

00:46:05.960 the return on investment, and then make that decision.

00:46:08.480 Yeah, that was kind of what I was going to ask,

00:46:10.520 because I find that these headlines are often very cost-centered,

00:46:13.500 and they don't do a very good job, maybe, of explaining the benefits, right?

00:46:17.380 Because, you know, an NHL club and a large arena

00:46:20.180 does bring a lot of economic activity to a city.

00:46:23.200 So I'd be interested to see, like,

00:46:24.780 what the full holistic cost-benefit analysis looks like.

00:46:28.680 But also, I mean, we have so many stadiums here in Vancouver.

00:46:32.000 We're dealing with a similar situation with the Whitecaps,

00:46:34.340 where apparently they need a new stadium in order to remain in MLS.

00:46:37.740 I'm not a big soccer fan.

00:46:38.620 I think that's the correct league.

00:46:41.400 Sorry?

00:46:41.820 Really?

00:46:42.400 Yeah, yeah.

00:46:43.100 This just came out a couple of days ago,

00:46:44.700 and they're thinking, I think, of building a new stadium

00:46:46.760 where the Hastings racetrack used to be.

00:46:49.320 But what I find interesting,

00:46:51.220 so I was actually mentioning just before we went on

00:46:53.260 that I used to do writing.

00:46:55.040 I used to do sports journalism,

00:46:56.460 and I used to cover the Vancouver Giants,

00:46:58.340 and they used to play in Memorial Coliseum,

00:47:00.340 which is a very old stadium.

00:47:02.060 But the stadium was functional.

00:47:03.560 It worked just fine.

00:47:04.560 I don't understand.

00:47:05.700 Like, is this just, like, a vanity thing?

00:47:07.040 Like, who cares if the seats are a little old

00:47:09.000 or, you know, the Jumbotron is a little outdated?

00:47:12.420 Like, ultimately, you're there to watch the game.

00:47:14.260 You're not there to, like, stare at the score clock anyway.

00:47:17.940 I would actually add a point that I haven't said before

00:47:21.300 is that there are indeed benefits.

00:47:23.660 I think the sports industry has been a massive benefit

00:47:26.500 to every economy that can hold a franchise of any major sport.

00:47:30.460 But typically, the discussion that will be had is,

00:47:32.800 what more can the franchise do with this new stadium

00:47:35.360 to provide more jobs locally to its own community.

00:47:38.420 So teams all over the world,

00:47:40.180 whether soccer teams in Europe or even in this case,

00:47:43.240 you're right, Alex,

00:47:44.260 the Vancouver Whitecaps recently signed an MOU.

00:47:47.140 We've heard that term.

00:47:49.140 MOU. Nice.

00:47:51.080 Kind of a Mark Carney MOU

00:47:52.540 where the thing actually never happens.

00:47:54.240 But I actually think this might be a bit more

00:47:55.900 of a more credible kind of deal.

00:47:57.740 I know, it's a beautiful term, right?

00:47:58.980 MOU, Memorandum of Understanding.

00:48:00.840 So I guess there is somehow an understanding

00:48:03.520 that the Whitecaps need a bigger stadium

00:48:05.200 or their own stadium.

00:48:06.240 I'm not sure what the Bell Centre relationship is

00:48:09.020 with the franchise, with the Whitecaps.

00:48:10.940 But, I mean, they brought in a big player from Europe,

00:48:13.200 I guess, looking for expansion of opportunities.

00:48:15.320 But essentially, the discussion will be,

00:48:16.840 okay, well, with this bigger capacity,

00:48:18.420 we can then afford this much more staff,

00:48:20.840 this much more jobs.

00:48:22.120 And, you know, look,

00:48:22.960 the other day we had a bit of confusion

00:48:24.580 between NVIDIA and Nokia,

00:48:25.680 but it was Nokia that offered that big, big, big subsidy

00:48:30.300 or got a big subsidy on the behalf

00:48:32.360 of the Canadian taxpayers by the government of Canada

00:48:34.060 because they were able to, you know,

00:48:37.300 open up or plan to open up an AI centre

00:48:39.440 that will give, you know, a couple dozen jobs,

00:48:41.840 maybe a couple hundred jobs.

00:48:42.940 Nothing too significant.

00:48:43.960 But again, if this is the government's kind of

00:48:46.080 willing game to play ball for, you know,

00:48:49.040 corporate subsidies and bailouts,

00:48:50.460 then I think Whitecaps pretty much

00:48:52.380 will get what they want.

00:48:53.420 Unless, of course, the stadium happens to be

00:48:55.660 going through unceded territory,

00:48:57.380 which in this case it probably is

00:48:58.780 because, I mean, the entire section of British Columbia

00:49:01.360 is apparently belonging to a specific ethnic group

00:49:04.380 that may not be happy to have anything

00:49:06.120 besides a piece of, you know,

00:49:08.780 rock built on top of the land.

00:49:10.520 But again, looking at the Whitecaps,

00:49:13.280 I mean, that situation,

00:49:14.560 or even the senators as well,

00:49:16.540 I mean, these are franchises

00:49:17.420 that are locked into the local economy.

00:49:19.040 These are major franchises

00:49:20.100 that have a lot of, you know,

00:49:21.580 fan base, fan support, private investment,

00:49:23.660 especially when it comes to the MLS

00:49:24.940 because unlike the NHL,

00:49:26.140 we're kind of deprived from MLS.

00:49:28.280 We actually just have two teams, I believe.

00:49:29.980 It's the Toronto FC and Whitecaps.

00:49:32.420 So, again, I don't think there's going to be

00:49:34.760 any hope for taxpayers to see

00:49:37.320 a complete deduction of taxpayer funds

00:49:40.340 in these projects and these initiatives.

00:49:42.560 Well, also, I think, like,

00:49:43.920 what is the life cycle of a modern sports arena?

00:49:46.980 Let's say it's 10, 15 years.

00:49:48.480 I think a way that you can maybe sell this

00:49:50.400 to taxpayers is if you had a plan

00:49:52.520 on how to repurpose the arena

00:49:54.220 when it's no longer viable

00:49:56.160 as a professional sports arena.

00:49:58.380 So, for example,

00:49:59.120 like, what are they going to do

00:49:59.900 with this addledome?

00:50:01.780 Are they just going to tear it?

00:50:02.600 Well, Alex, that's kind of what,

00:50:03.700 that was a terrible thing

00:50:04.860 that was happening in Edmonton

00:50:06.220 because we had Rexall Place

00:50:07.500 when we built Rogers Place.

00:50:08.660 Rexall Place is the old building.

00:50:10.160 There was people suggesting that

00:50:11.560 they should be housing homeless people there. 0.72

00:50:14.460 I mean,

00:50:14.620 I actually don't think

00:50:16.020 that's the worst idea ever.

00:50:17.240 And maybe they did, too.

00:50:18.140 And then they did a bunch

00:50:18.980 of other stuff with it, too.

00:50:20.180 So, like, it is still, I think,

00:50:22.340 functioning in some way.

00:50:23.800 Like, and of course,

00:50:24.740 there's the racetrack there

00:50:26.060 for horses and stuff

00:50:27.360 at the Coliseum there.

00:50:28.760 But I don't know exactly

00:50:30.140 what they do on a day-to-day basis,

00:50:32.640 but I do believe that building

00:50:33.840 is still functional.

00:50:35.040 Or maybe they...

00:50:35.580 I think it would be

00:50:36.440 an interesting pitch to taxpayers

00:50:38.360 if you said, well,

00:50:39.600 when, you know,

00:50:40.280 at the end of the 15-year

00:50:41.400 life cycle of this arena,

00:50:42.560 we can easily repurpose it

00:50:44.240 into housing,

00:50:45.760 market housing.

00:50:46.720 You know,

00:50:46.960 not necessarily fill it up

00:50:47.960 with homeless people

00:50:48.700 like the,

00:50:49.820 what was that arena

00:50:50.720 during Hurricane Katrina?

00:50:52.900 I don't know why I'm laughing.

00:50:53.780 There's nothing funny

00:50:54.320 about Hurricane Katrina.

00:50:56.100 But, you know,

00:50:58.480 like, I think that,

00:50:59.460 like, that actually

00:51:00.260 may be a good pitch

00:51:01.260 to taxpayers,

00:51:02.100 especially because

00:51:02.560 not everybody likes sports.

00:51:04.360 Right?

00:51:04.500 That's a very tough pill

00:51:05.360 to swallow if you're,

00:51:06.520 you know,

00:51:07.040 somebody paying thousands

00:51:08.800 of dollars every year

00:51:09.600 in property tax

00:51:10.340 and you have no intention

00:51:11.360 of watching a hockey game.

00:51:12.560 Yeah, they are saying

00:51:15.120 Rexall Place now.

00:51:16.960 They are talking about

00:51:18.160 doing demolition on it,

00:51:19.260 so I don't actually know.

00:51:20.200 But, yeah.

00:51:21.380 That seems very wasteful

00:51:22.520 to me, right?

00:51:23.060 Because I assume

00:51:23.700 that the building

00:51:24.260 is mostly functional

00:51:25.300 and I don't think

00:51:26.420 it would be,

00:51:27.080 I mean,

00:51:27.360 I'm not an engineer,

00:51:28.420 I'm not an architect,

00:51:29.620 but I imagine

00:51:30.400 that you could probably

00:51:31.280 repurpose it into

00:51:32.160 some type of market housing.

00:51:33.560 Same thing with a lot.

00:51:34.120 Well, when it comes

00:51:34.560 to housing,

00:51:35.180 the insurance on a foundation

00:51:37.320 is 100 years.

00:51:38.440 So if you assume

00:51:39.060 the same thing here

00:51:39.680 or even a bit less,

00:51:40.500 let's say 75,

00:51:41.100 it would be fine

00:51:42.340 to last that long, right?

00:51:43.300 Like, it's not going

00:51:43.780 to just fall over.

00:51:47.240 Yeah, it's almost like

00:51:48.280 we're treating these arenas

00:51:49.200 like Vegas casinos, right?

00:51:50.840 Although,

00:51:50.940 I'm reading this article now,

00:51:51.980 Alex, about Rexall.

00:51:53.960 It does say,

00:51:55.560 this is an interesting aspect

00:51:56.860 you have to consider,

00:51:57.560 it costs the city

00:51:58.220 over $1.2 million a year

00:52:00.000 to keep the dormant

00:52:00.920 facility running.

00:52:01.620 So it does cost money

00:52:03.820 to just keep it there

00:52:04.880 as opposed to demolition.

00:52:07.160 You, of course,

00:52:08.720 eliminate that cost.

00:52:10.300 Yeah, you need security

00:52:11.160 as well to avoid people

00:52:12.620 from getting in there

00:52:14.060 and just squatting

00:52:14.900 and living in there.

00:52:15.900 So you're spending money

00:52:17.000 to keep people out

00:52:18.300 from what could potentially

00:52:19.200 serve as housing

00:52:20.240 rather than just

00:52:21.820 converting it to housing.

00:52:23.580 That seems just

00:52:24.240 incredibly wasteful to me.

00:52:25.420 They are saying

00:52:28.320 they are redeveloping it

00:52:29.480 into a plaza

00:52:30.220 and a high-density

00:52:31.520 residential development.

00:52:32.580 So in a way,

00:52:33.200 there you go, Alex.

00:52:33.860 Your wish is granted.

00:52:35.500 This is housing.

00:52:36.920 But I'm going to,

00:52:38.040 speaking of memorandum

00:52:38.820 of understanding,

00:52:39.560 let's do a memorandum

00:52:40.300 of understanding

00:52:40.740 with the audience

00:52:41.380 and understand that

00:52:42.260 everything you heard today

00:52:43.140 was off the record.

00:52:48.220 Nicely played.

00:52:49.560 Funny.

00:52:51.260 Oh my God.

00:52:52.380 I mean,

00:52:52.740 I thought it was funny

00:52:53.960 when I made that whole joke

00:52:55.060 but the stadium

00:52:56.680 potentially never getting built

00:52:57.940 because again,

00:52:58.740 you know,

00:52:58.960 you have this great

00:53:00.020 big resistance out west

00:53:01.660 or actually out

00:53:03.460 in British Columbia.

00:53:04.340 I shouldn't say out west

00:53:05.200 because I think Alberta

00:53:05.960 and Sichuan

00:53:06.600 want nothing more

00:53:07.880 than shovels in the ground.

00:53:09.440 Even Manitoba

00:53:10.160 might be more open

00:53:10.940 than BC.

00:53:12.320 I think BC

00:53:12.900 is really an exclusive case

00:53:14.160 when it comes to

00:53:14.840 its anti-pipeline,

00:53:16.760 anti-energy standpoint,

00:53:18.720 frankly.

00:53:19.880 But it would be interesting

00:53:21.240 to look at the environmental

00:53:22.100 costs of having a stadium

00:53:24.060 in the city of Vancouver.

00:53:25.060 You know,

00:53:25.440 or on the outskirts

00:53:26.120 of the city as well.

00:53:26.940 I'm sure there's

00:53:27.340 a great financial cost

00:53:28.900 and perhaps an argument

00:53:30.220 that maybe David Eby

00:53:31.400 should be having

00:53:32.120 instead of deducting

00:53:33.580 a whole pipeline project

00:53:34.720 with massive economic potential

00:53:36.600 of exporting more oil

00:53:38.000 to the Asian markets

00:53:40.680 on the west coast.

00:53:42.400 stopping by the Turkish

00:54:02.780 of the Classroom

00:54:03.640 coming from soprano to the

00:54:04.240 the Mississippi

00:54:06.080 on the north side of Delcoe.

Juno News - December 14, 2025

Another MP Crosses the Floor

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