Juno News - Based prof HUMILIATES CBC reporter, leaves her in tears over unmarked graves LIES

00:00:00.000 Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you

00:00:06.960 today, folks. We have Professor Frances Widowson joining us in just a few minutes. But first,

00:00:12.420 I'm going to spend a bit of time providing some background, giving you a bit of a refresher

00:00:16.660 on what has happened in Canada with the story of the unmarked graves and the legacy media

00:00:22.640 hoax surrounding it. So we're going to go through a timeline. This episode is brought to you by

00:00:27.260 Albertans against no-fault insurance. More on them later. So as you recall, back in May of 2021,

00:00:35.140 the CDC published a bombshell report. This is what the headline said, remains of 215 children

00:00:41.740 found buried at former BC residential school. That report was based on a press release that was put

00:00:49.800 out by the Kamloops Indian Reserve. And let me tell you, the report was based on a preliminary finding.

00:00:56.560 It wasn't a detailed report. It wasn't any hard evidence. It was just a claim that a report was

00:01:01.980 forthcoming. Well, that didn't matter. The report went around the world. And the way that the media

00:01:06.940 covered it globally was even more hysterical than the way the Canadian media reported it. So here you

00:01:12.160 see the New York Times had this headline, horrible history, mass graves of Indigenous children reported

00:01:18.220 in Canada. And so you can see how they went from unmarked graves to a mass grave. While the Canadian

00:01:24.940 media quickly followed suit, the Toronto Star and others started calling them mass graves. Here is

00:01:30.180 a report just three days later, May 31st, 2021, from the Toronto Star, mass grave of Indigenous children

00:01:36.740 discovered at Kamloops, BC. We all remember how at the time, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau jumped on these

00:01:44.560 allegations. He wanted to be in front of them. He wanted to be Mr. Compassionate. And so here he was

00:01:49.160 photographed at one of the sites of another First Nations reserve, this one in Saskatchewan,

00:01:55.600 that claimed to have found 751 unmarked graves, part of the same moral panic and story. And of course,

00:02:02.840 Prime Minister was more than happy to do his photo op there. In reality, that one cemetery is worth

00:02:09.780 pointing out in Saskatchewan. That was not part of the residential school. Even in the initial Globe

00:02:15.780 and Mail report that was published on July 19, 2021, tucked away at the end of the report, it quotes a

00:02:22.420 band leader who said that they knew about the cemetery, that everybody knew about the cemetery.

00:02:27.580 It was a rural municipal cemetery. It had people that were Indigenous and non-Indigenous buried there,

00:02:35.020 and it was known by the entire community. That doesn't matter. The media narrative had already

00:02:39.340 taken off on its own. By the end of 2021, here is the Canadian press named the discovery of the

00:02:45.880 unmarked graves as the story of the year. It certainly was the most impactful, the most important

00:02:52.720 story of 2021. Part of the problem, folks, to be perfectly honest, is that there was no pushback,

00:02:57.660 right? Even the Conservative Party of Canada was more than happy to go along with this. They even

00:03:01.940 participated in a motion in the House of Commons saying that genocide was committed. Of course,

00:03:07.880 no such thing happened. Us at True North and here at the Candace Malcolm Show, we didn't buy it from

00:03:12.600 the very beginning. We were skeptical. We were asking questions. In fact, in 2021, the same year,

00:03:17.680 the Candace Malcolm Show, we named it the biggest fake news narrative of the year. It landed at number

00:03:24.180 one. And I also published this piece earlier in the year, back in July of 2021, the six things the

00:03:30.120 media got wrong about the graves found near the residential schools. I should have written the

00:03:34.880 alleged graves found near the residential schools. That became the most read article in the history

00:03:40.300 of True North. It was later surpassed by Cosmic Church's reporting on the maps of the churches that

00:03:45.040 have been burnt. We had a map of Canada and we kept track of all of the churches that have been

00:03:49.360 vandalized or burnt down or victims of arson. I think the total number is over 125 now. And that has

00:03:56.240 since become the number one piece that we have reported. But still, we were part of the small

00:04:02.060 handful of Canadians that were pushing back against this narrative. And look, folks, the truth has come

00:04:08.540 out. The truth has come out. More and more Canadians know that this story is not based on facts. There have

00:04:15.440 been no human remains found at these residential schools. In Kamloops, there hasn't been any kind of

00:04:20.900 excavation at all. It's based on very sort of preliminary science and something called ground

00:04:25.640 penetrating radar that suspects that there are anomalies. They don't even call them graves anymore.

00:04:31.460 They call them anomalies. The few places where there have been excavations, no remains have found. And

00:04:37.580 even the legacy media has been forced to admit that. So here is the CBC reporting in August of 2023,

00:04:43.480 no evidence of human remains found beneath the church at Pine Creek residential school sites. That was

00:04:49.280 another one of these sites that was claimed to have bodies been found. When they did the excavation,

00:04:55.100 none were found. There are several other examples of places where there have been excavations in

00:05:00.580 August 2021. In Nova Scotia, they conducted an excavation at a former site of residential school.

00:05:06.240 No bones were found. There's allegations of clandestine burials. Nothing was found. And then again,

00:05:12.820 in Edmonton, in October of 2021, there was an excavation done at the Camsell Hospital. And once again,

00:05:19.280 no human remains were found. And so that is where we are today. I'm very pleased that True North was

00:05:26.120 part of an important book that was published. We published this book called Grave Error. It was

00:05:31.720 published in December of 2023. It quickly became the number one bestselling book on Amazon in Canada,

00:05:38.820 became a Canadian bestseller. And one of the authors is a collection of essays. It's edited by Dr.

00:05:44.840 Champion and Tom Flanagan, a retired professor at the University of Calgary. One of the contributors

00:05:49.400 to that book is Frances Whittowson. She is a political scientist and a free speech activist.

00:05:54.940 She was an associate professor at Mount Royal University from 2008 until she was dismissed in 2021.

00:06:01.120 I'm very pleased to welcome her to the show today. Frances, thank you so much for joining the program.

00:06:05.340 Thanks for having me on. Well, first, I want to say that you were dismissed from your role at the

00:06:11.920 Mount Royal University, but then your dismissal was deemed to be disproportionate. So after an

00:06:19.280 arbiter ruled that the university had acted disproportionately when they dismissed you. So

00:06:25.800 why don't you tell us what is the latest with you and Mount Royal University in Calgary?

00:06:30.300 Yes. So that decision came down last year. But unfortunately, the arbitrator decided that

00:06:40.200 although I had been unjustly terminated, I could not be reinstated because of the friction that

00:06:46.880 supposedly existed between me and a number of scholar activists at Mount Royal University who cannot

00:06:53.200 tolerate their views being questioned. So my case is being appealed to the Alberta

00:07:00.200 Labor Relations Board and that appeal is going to be heard in December of this year. So we'll find

00:07:06.780 out whether hopefully the Alberta Labor Relations Board will seriously look at this case. The arbitrator's

00:07:14.680 decision, in my view, was seriously flawed and the union agrees as well. So hopefully I will be

00:07:21.960 reinstated very shortly to Mount Royal University and be back doing my research and classroom activities

00:07:28.760 and providing a much-needed counterbalance to the advocacy that is going on at Mount Royal University

00:07:36.340 around things like the unmarked graves and the false claims that were made about that.

00:07:41.580 Well, I think the students at that university would be very lucky to have you back there. So let's talk a

00:07:47.340 little bit about the book Gravaire. So we published it at the very end of 2023. We just felt like we

00:07:53.340 needed to have a counter piece of evidence, right? There's so much misinformation floating around in

00:07:58.780 the media. And because of that, there's a perception, I think, in the minds of too many Canadians

00:08:03.180 that something horrible, something akin to genocide happened at schools across the country. We just wanted 0.94

00:08:08.860 something to be able to point to and say, well, like, hear the other side of the story. Hear the side of the

00:08:13.500 story that most Canadians believed up until about five years ago. And so you did a great service by

00:08:20.700 providing that. Tell us a little bit about why you want to be involved in this project and then

00:08:24.620 some of the reaction to the book from your perspective. So I wanted to be involved because

00:08:32.700 from very early on, and just like yourself, I was quite skeptical about the claim that was made in May

00:08:38.860 2021, because I had been studying the residential schools since, I guess, 2016, after the Truth and

00:08:46.780 Reconciliation Report came out. And I thought that the report was very unbalanced and advocacy oriented

00:08:54.300 and needed to be critically analyzed. And then when this claim came out, we actually held an event in

00:09:00.780 on July 10th, 2021, with Brian Giesbrecht and Rodney Clifton, where we were raising the alarm about how

00:09:09.340 this was premature, claiming that remains have been found. And Brian Giesbrecht, in fact, raised the issue

00:09:16.380 of the cemeteries, the abandoned cemeteries, of which there are many. But it turns out that Kamloops is not

00:09:22.940 an abandoned cemetery because it is the apple orchard. And there's actually a cemetery on the reserve.

00:09:30.540 itself, where some children from the residential school are buried. And there are many unmarked

00:09:35.900 graves, graves that are now unmarked in that cemetery, because the markers have deteriorated.

00:09:42.220 So I sense that there were, there were some problems with these claims, and I wanted them to

00:09:47.500 be investigated. But it was a really, it was a huge battle, trying to get pieces published to critique

00:09:56.620 that claim. And this book was the first initiative, kind of written initiative, a compilation of the

00:10:05.180 work of all the critics who had been working on this issue for a few years by the time that that book

00:10:12.380 came out.

00:10:12.860 Well, it's interesting, Frances, because at the time when this happened, I was still writing in

00:10:17.340 the Toronto Sun. I wrote for the Toronto Sun for about eight years, finishing at the end of 2021. And so,

00:10:22.140 initially, I was writing columns on these stories, and I had no pushback whatsoever from my editor.

00:10:27.420 They actually liked it because it was an interesting other side of the story, even though I will tell

00:10:30.940 you in my personal life, friends, even professional colleagues, even people at True North were opposed

00:10:36.700 to what I was doing. Like I had a member of our board quit. I had an editor quit and rage over this

00:10:40.860 stuff. Like they really didn't like this because it was so sensitive at the time, right? Everybody was so

00:10:47.660 careful and worried, and they didn't want to be seen as sensitive. And even conservatives said,

00:10:51.420 well, you know, we didn't like the idea of residential schools because it's a big government

00:10:54.780 program, etc, etc. By the end of 2021, the Toronto Sun told me that I was no longer welcome to publish

00:11:01.660 pieces. They didn't tell me why. But this was the kind of thing that I was writing a lot. And like I

00:11:06.380 said, I said that it was the biggest hoax of 2021. So connecting those lines, I think that it was part of

00:11:11.740 the reason. And you're right, there was almost no coverage of this in the legacy media, despite so

00:11:17.100 many voices and so many people just asking really basic questions, not even making any claims, just

00:11:23.660 asking questions about like, you know, what the accusations were and, and asking for more facts. Now,

00:11:29.900 I want to move this along. So in March of 2024, so some three months after this book was published,

00:11:37.420 basically, there was a controversy at the Quesnel City Council, because this book was distributed to

00:11:46.540 members of the City Council by the wife of the mayor. And so the Quesnel City Council voted unanimously

00:11:53.820 to denounce this book, saying that it downplayed the harms of the residential schools and First Nations,

00:11:59.340 and councillors raised concerns that the mayor's wife had been distributing it. And so at that point,

00:12:04.300 you were invited or you decided to travel to Quesnel to speak at a City Council meeting. And I have a

00:12:11.580 clip from the from the City Council meeting, where you were basically told that you were not welcome

00:12:19.420 there. Let's let's play that clip. Does the Council concern itself with misinformation? Is it opposed to

00:12:26.220 misinformation being spread and entered into the record? If so, does it agree that this is

00:12:33.740 misinformation because there is no evidence of unmarked graves at the Kamloops Indian Residential

00:12:43.100 School? Her opinion in this in this chambers does not count. She's asking us to comment on something

00:12:49.260 that comes from qualified individuals that dealt with this that lived through this. Ma'am,

00:12:54.700 you are not welcome here. So I mean, what a scene, right? Hundreds of people showing up heckling you,

00:13:00.780 booing you and you just stating the facts, being very calm and measured, and sort of a hysterical

00:13:06.060 reaction to you. So walk us through what happened? What brought you to Quesnel and some background to

00:13:11.740 that? Yeah, so Pat Morton, as soon as I heard that Pat Morton was under fire for just sharing the book

00:13:20.220 with a friend and sending a copy to the school board saying that they might consider having it in their

00:13:27.340 library. She got her husband, the mayor, got attacked. He was being attacked because of her,

00:13:35.260 what she had done. Unfortunately, he sort of allowed himself to be, you know, drawn into this

00:13:41.820 discussion when he should have just said, look, my wife is not a public figure. She's allowed to share 1.00

00:13:46.940 books with whoever she wants. Anyway, things started to get really nasty in Quesnel. And for example,

00:13:54.620 her son has a tax business, and the band was, you know, withdrew its business. And there was,

00:14:02.060 you know, it's a very small community, so it was not pleasant. And she heard there was going to be

00:14:06.300 this terrible protest that was going to be happening. So she asked if any, you know, person who was a

00:14:11.340 contributor to Grave Era could come. And because I was in Calgary, I was, I was sort of the person to

00:14:17.420 decide, like, I volunteered to do it and drive to Quesnel. And when I arrived there and was in the

00:14:24.860 gallery, we were supposed to be given some time about a, I'm not sure what the time limit, I heard

00:14:30.940 that we were going to be given, everyone was going to be given a certain amount of time to make a

00:14:34.700 statement. But I thought that that was going to be unlikely. So I knew, according to the rules,

00:14:39.500 you could pose a question from the gallery. So I had both, both things planned. And then

00:14:46.060 when I went up there, they allowed the Aboriginal, you know, representatives to talk for, you know,

00:14:53.660 minutes on end about things completely unrelated to the agenda. And then they strictly controlled

00:14:59.260 what Pat Morton and I could say. And then but I had my question, the most important question,

00:15:04.940 which was in this document from the British Columbia Assembly of First Nations. They had

00:15:09.980 the false claim that remains of, or graves of 215 children have been found. And so I was asking a

00:15:16.140 question specifically on that. And I was booed and treated absolutely horribly by these two councillors,

00:15:23.500 Scott Elliott and another councillor's name is Laurie Ann Rudenberg. They were unbelievable in their

00:15:31.100 totalitarianism. And that whole meeting was a circus. And it is and Pat Morton was treated,

00:15:37.740 she was treated worse than me. So the whole thing was just an embarrassment for that city council. And 0.83

00:15:43.580 there's a number of city councils who have similar problems, Powell River City Council, and also Sechelt

00:15:49.500 City Council. So it's a very dysfunctional situation in terms of the, you know, Aboriginal groups being able 0.76

00:15:55.260 to control what happens in city councils now. Well, we're going to get to the documentary that you

00:16:01.500 published, I think it was last month, where you do an excellent job sort of outlining the sort of

00:16:06.380 post-truth world that we live in, where people don't even care about the truth. And you can say,

00:16:10.460 like, hey, you said that this book is racist. Can you give me an example of how it's racist?

00:16:15.260 And they'll basically accuse you of being racist for just even asking that question and saying that they

00:16:19.900 don't need to have any evidence whatsoever. I want to talk about your interview with the CBC

00:16:25.980 and with their young reporter out there named Dorden Tucker, which they thankfully, you recorded

00:16:31.580 your own side of it, because this was an absolute train wreck, and so embarrassing on behalf of the

00:16:38.380 CBC. So this is all in the context of you going up to Quenelle. Maybe before I start playing some clips,

00:16:45.180 can you sort of walk us through how this interview came to be? Did she just sort of reach out to you

00:16:50.540 out of the blue? Or had you been communicating with her in the past? Let me just give us a bit of

00:16:54.060 background. Yes, so I never heard of her, I'd never interacted with her. She had obviously heard that I

00:17:00.780 was coming to Quenelle, and, you know, wanted to, you know, find out if there were nefarious things at

00:17:09.020 work. And, and so she set up an interview with me. And I think this was the day before or a couple,

00:17:14.380 two days before I went to Quenelle. And then we had, she, we set up a Zoom call. This was on Zoom.

00:17:22.780 I wish I had a screen, you know, and I now know how to screen record. I wish I'd had a screen

00:17:27.260 recording of that, but I just had audio on it. And I was, I was, I've never had an interview like

00:17:32.940 that before. I've had bad interviews, but usually the interviews are quite professional. It's in the

00:17:39.100 actual piece that is produced afterwards where the problem arises. But this interview, right from the

00:17:45.020 start, she was making all these accusations and that what, that's what got me in such a

00:17:49.740 confrontational kind of position is because I was being asked all these questions about who was

00:17:56.060 paying for my trip and whether I was financially benefiting from it. You know, when, you know, I was

00:18:01.180 taking a great deal of time out of my own schedule, I was getting, you know, probably going to get some

00:18:06.540 expenses paid, but I wasn't making any money off of it. I was doing it purely to ensure that the

00:18:12.540 city council was held to account for the libelous things that they were saying about, you know, the

00:18:20.460 contributors of the book Grave Error. Okay. We've got a bunch of clips that we are going to play just

00:18:25.740 in a moment, folks. I want to take a second though, to thank the sponsor of today's episode, which is

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00:19:08.380 AlbertansAgainstNoFault.com. That's AlbertansAgainstNoFault.com. All right, Francis, I want to play,

00:19:15.900 let's go with the first clip that we have here, which is alluding to what you were saying, where the

00:19:21.100 interviewer, Jordan Tucker, a CVC reporter, is pressing you on who's covering your travel funds. And then I

00:19:27.900 spliced it together with a clip later on where you talk about how she's wondering, you know,

00:19:32.220 why would people invent or embellish these claims? And you said, well, the government has given them

00:19:37.020 seven million dollars, so that's pretty good incentive, seven million dollars, pretty good

00:19:40.300 incentive to exaggerate your story. And she kind of like shrugs it off like, oh, who cares about seven

00:19:45.260 million dollars? So let's play that clip, please. Are you being, are your travel expenses being paid

00:19:51.340 by anyone? Or are you paying them yourself? We'll see what, what washes out of the whole thing.

00:19:59.340 What do you mean by that? It depends on how much the expenses are,

00:20:03.660 but I don't really see why I have to justify my, my travel to Quesnel to people. I'm coming

00:20:11.580 perfectly... Well, if you were invited. I was invited, yes. And you won't tell me by who,

00:20:16.220 and I'm wondering, are you selling books? What's your motivation to go?

00:20:20.300 First of all, I receive no money whatsoever for the books.

00:20:25.100 Don't you think that it's quite like a lot, a lot of trouble to go to, to say that 215 children

00:20:34.140 died in order to get seven million dollars? There's a lot of other ways to get seven million dollars.

00:20:39.420 I just, I, you, you could have made this up, right? First, you could sense in her voice just how

00:20:43.660 insecure she is, how whiny, she just seems really upset. She doesn't want to have to justify anything

00:20:48.620 she's doing. And, and, and she's really concerned over, I don't know, I don't know what gas money from

00:20:54.060 Calgary to Quesnel is, maybe a few hundred dollars. And then like in the same breath, she's like, oh,

00:20:59.820 seven, there's a lot of ways to get seven million dollars. Just totally unbelievable. I want to play one

00:21:04.460 more clip for you here. This is unbelievable. This, this goes to show folks how ill-informed some members

00:21:11.260 of the press are and sadly how many Canadians are. So, so the, the reporter again, you know,

00:21:16.540 you would think that she would come to an interview prepared with facts, with research,

00:21:21.900 probably having read the book, or at least the chapter that you could review. You know, you,

00:21:25.660 you just wrote one, one chapter of the book. I think it's like 20, 25 pages. I get that it's not

00:21:29.900 the easiest book to read, but you can get it at libraries across Canada. You could go and pick this

00:21:34.140 book up, read it for free. Just, just even read Francis's one essay in there. You could tell

00:21:40.540 she didn't do that. And in the interview, she claims, she claims as fact that 6,000 bodies have

00:21:47.660 been found, 6,000 bodies. And you asked her, her source. And she said the Truth and Reconciliation

00:21:52.940 Commission report, which is a written report that came out in 2015. It doesn't even make any sense.

00:21:57.980 These claims of unmarked graves didn't come out until 2021. You just get a snapshot of just how

00:22:04.540 ignorant these people are. Let's play that clip, please. 0.98

00:22:06.460 Because there's, there's been over 6,000 bodies found at this point. Are all of those?

00:22:13.660 What bodies, what bodies have been found?

00:22:17.500 I, I'm going with information from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and then various other

00:22:22.540 government bodies. No, no, but you said 6,000 bodies have been found.

00:22:27.100 That's the current, that's the current number. Yeah. That's all.

00:22:31.180 And you say the Truth and Reconciliation Commission says that 6,000 bodies have been found?

00:22:38.620 Can I complete my questions, please?

00:22:40.220 I'm just, you're the one who made that claim. And as a journalist,

00:22:44.460 you should be concerned about the accuracy of your claims.

00:22:47.180 Unbelievable. So I guess just, what was it, what was it like to be met with a CBC reporter like that?

00:22:55.500 I was, I was amazed. I, I've never seen a level of incompetence. And, you know, she's not a,

00:23:01.980 you know, the head of the broadcasting department or anything. She's obviously sort of freelance and

00:23:08.780 so on. But still, the CBC used to be, you know, an important media institution that would have had

00:23:16.940 some oversight and be training its, the people that work for it to do proper journalism. And that's

00:23:23.340 obviously not happening at all anymore. Well, absolutely. And so I'll just play one more clip

00:23:28.220 from this interview. And folks, if you want to watch the whole thing, it's well worth your time.

00:23:31.900 Frances has put it up on her YouTube page. We'll link that in the description. So you can go,

00:23:36.540 you'll either be like wildly entertained, or just like sorely depressed at the state of the thinking

00:23:43.580 behind the journalists in this country. But here is how the interview ends, which is Frances

00:23:49.740 rightly calling this journalist out and discrediting her credibility. Let's play that clip. 0.98

00:23:55.900 I think you really need to read that book, because you do not have an understanding at all.

00:24:01.180 Ma'am, I don't need that from you. Thank you.

00:24:03.260 Well, you are a seriously incompetent journalist. And this is what the CBC has sunk to these days. 0.94

00:24:13.020 I don't think that you accusing me or shouting at me is very helpful

00:24:17.740 to your case. Well, I don't really think I'm shouting at you. I'm just telling you,

00:24:22.380 for someone who is here doing an interview on this case. Ma'am, please stop. Please stop. That's 0.65

00:24:28.460 enough. This interview is now over. Thank you for your time.

00:24:34.060 I mean, just not to not to be too cruel to this young lady, but she was so unprepared for the

00:24:39.500 interview. And any time you called her on her BS or called her out for pushing total lies, she would 0.97

00:24:46.140 just like break character and be like, I don't need this from you or like stop shouting at me or

00:24:51.980 stop interrupting me. And it's like, this is how you have a debate, right? It's like you're making

00:24:56.860 claims that are false. So the person you're interviewing is calling you out on that.

00:25:01.340 And rather than trying to back it up, she just sort of gets upset and pouts and has a temper tantrum. 1.00

00:25:08.300 Okay, Frances, I want to show the audience what the CBC published, because this is just classic CBC

00:25:14.620 deception, right? She records this long interview with you where she stumbles through the facts. She

00:25:20.140 can't get her questions out. And then she gets upset. I think she was in tears and she ended the

00:25:25.020 interview. And yet, to the CBC audience, this is I believe it was a radio segment because we just

00:25:30.300 had the soundbite of it. But this is how they presented it to the public. Let's play that soft

00:25:35.740 five. After indigenous leaders called it harmful and painful. As Jordan Tucker tells us, the author

00:25:42.060 won't say who invited her or if she's being paid for travel costs. There's terrible censoriousness.

00:25:48.140 Frances Widowson co wrote a book casting doubt on the harmfulness of Canada's residential schools.

00:25:53.980 A former professor, she was fired from Calgary's Mount Royal University three years ago,

00:25:58.940 following her comments on the residential school system and the Black Lives Matter movement.

00:26:03.660 The book features articles contesting evidence of unmarked graves at sites across the country.

00:26:08.620 As occurred in the case of the satanic panic, they are people who are distressed,

00:26:14.940 who have their memories influenced by these sorts of things.

00:26:19.020 Unbelievable, Frances. This is why it's so important, folks. Anytime you're

00:26:23.260 being interviewed by a CBC or any journalist, record it yourself. Have your own copy of it so

00:26:29.180 that you can bring the receipts and show the world the real interview. But what did you make of all that?

00:26:35.980 Yes, and the most serious thing, and I think it's very valuable for people to look at that interview

00:26:42.860 because it shows the thought process of not just this particular journalist, but people who believe

00:26:49.820 this claim. And it was about her arguing that the 215 bodies have been found. We got into a big

00:26:57.180 skirmish about this. And she said that, you know, why would, you know, all these smart people in the

00:27:02.620 government, why would they believe this if it weren't true? Like, this is a journalist. A journalist is

00:27:08.300 supposed to be, you know, holding leaders to account and so on. But she has been completely

00:27:13.420 credulous in her, you know, in her interaction with leaders, you know, politicians, Aboriginal leaders,

00:27:22.380 and so on. So I think it's a very valuable thing to look at just from the thought processes that are

00:27:29.260 going on about this case. Well, in your chapter in Grave Error, you do talk about the moral panic

00:27:37.020 of the 1980s with the satanic daycare scandal, which I didn't know that much about. I learned

00:27:41.420 it from your book. But it seemed like in the interview, she was kind of drawing you down a

00:27:44.860 bit of a rabbit hole. And then she took that one little clip and kind of played it out of context

00:27:49.500 to make it seem like you were talking about satanic rituals or something like that. Like it was,

00:27:53.500 it was just classic bait and switch, like deceptive journalism. And I'm glad that you again posted it

00:28:01.340 so that Canadians can see, okay, Francis, I want to move on to this excellent documentary that you

00:28:06.140 have released. And I don't know when it was published, but I watched it a few days ago,

00:28:12.140 and it really is worth your time. It's called What Remains Exposing the Kamloops Massgrave

00:28:16.540 Deception's Impact on Powell River. So can you tell us about why you chose to do a documentary

00:28:23.180 on Powell River, right? Like, I think that a lot of people are focusing on what's happening in

00:28:27.500 Kamloops and that Indian reservation. Talk to us about what's happening in Powell River.

00:28:33.980 Yeah, so this documentary is actually the initial one in a series that Simon Haregott, who is a

00:28:40.940 videographer and journalist, he was a journalist who worked for Global News for 10 years, and was fired

00:28:46.780 because of his opposition to the media outlets coverage of a number of issues. He's an

00:28:52.780 incredible talent. And he was the one who did most of the work on this documentary, I was involved in

00:28:59.660 and sort of with some of the background information that I had and, and obviously was featured in it.

00:29:06.220 But anyway, we're planning on doing another more in depth kinds of examinations in the Kamloops case

00:29:14.220 itself, and the massive institutional failure that is, that has happened in the media, in the school

00:29:22.060 board, the universities, and all these institutions, which really explain why this deception has taken

00:29:29.580 root. But what people don't understand is that although this happened in Kamloops, this claim that was

00:29:36.140 made in May 2021 has had far-reaching consequences. And one of the consequences was in the town of Powell River,

00:29:47.340 where this claim was used by the chief of the local Indian band to demand, to make the demand that the

00:29:55.180 town's name should be changed. And it turns out, and another reason was that the town was supposedly

00:30:02.540 named after Israel Wood Powell, who was the superintendent, who was a head official in the

00:30:07.980 Department of Indian Affairs. It turns out that the town was not even named after Israel Wood Powell,

00:30:13.500 it was named after Edward Powell, who was a cartographer who had mapped the area. So both of the claims behind

00:30:20.940 why this town's name should be changed were not correct, yet they're still continuing to press for

00:30:27.180 this. And this has completely ripped apart this community. And this is the kind of thing that these

00:30:34.060 so-called truth and reconciliation efforts do, is that they have nothing to do with truth. It is about,

00:30:40.700 you know, these fomenting these falsehoods so that, you know, grievances can be stirred up. And then,

00:30:46.940 of course, it results in all these fights between people, which then benefit all the legal disputes

00:30:54.620 that are going to emerge out of all these interactions. And one of the biggest things

00:30:59.580 that's happened that has also impacted Powell River is the Kamloops claim was used to push through

00:31:06.220 the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples into federal legislation. There

00:31:12.300 was opposition from both the Conservative Party and six provinces. And when that claim was made,

00:31:18.540 everyone just was saying, well, what can we do to right this wrong? And that allowed that

00:31:23.660 legislation to be pushed through. So now we've got to deal with a whole bunch of implications of what

00:31:30.300 it means to have this kind of internationalist notion undermine Canadian sovereignty and all the

00:31:38.540 disputes, all the legal disputes that are going to result from that. So we went into Powell River,

00:31:43.980 Simon Hergott and me, and did a lot of footage of the various kinds of problems that existed in Powell

00:31:50.940 River. And it was quite a fascinating case study, which showed a lot of the, you know, flawed thought

00:31:57.580 processes that are occurring with respect to the Kamloops case.

00:32:00.780 Well, you do an excellent job, the documentary does an excellent job debunking some of the

00:32:05.340 prevalences, exposing the sort of industry around First Nations, like the consultants, and sometimes

00:32:11.020 even the academic professors. You debunked a New York Times documentary or clip segment pretending to

00:32:18.780 show that they had found babies buried. And you had a geophysicist who said, there's no way, you know,

00:32:24.140 these images of the guys showing on the screen are maybe 10 to 12 centimeters. Those aren't remains

00:32:29.820 of humans. Those are probably boulders or animal burrows. There's another part where a protester shows up to

00:32:37.420 protest you, you confront her. We're going to play this clip of you just trying to engage with a

00:32:43.180 protestor and just showing how totally unprepared and unwilling these people are to debate their ideas.

00:32:49.420 Let's play Saud 8, please. 0.93

00:32:50.540 Could you explain to me your position?

00:32:53.260 No.

00:32:53.420 Are you not interested in what my arguments are?

00:32:58.220 I know what they are.

00:33:00.060 Okay, so what are my arguments?

00:33:03.980 I don't need to speak your work back to you. I'm not in a lecture. I'm not your student. I won't be

00:33:11.740 summarizing your work for you.

00:33:14.060 No, but do you want to be accurate in your, the way you're portraying my work?

00:33:18.940 Do you think that being accurate?

00:33:20.140 You think your work isn't racist.

00:33:22.380 Um, but you think it is?

00:33:24.300 Yes.

00:33:24.860 So why do you think it's racist?

00:33:27.100 It fully is racist.

00:33:29.020 But, but what, if you're going to say that my work is racist,

00:33:33.500 don't you think that you have a responsibility to say why you think it's racist?

00:33:37.260 Not to you.

00:33:37.980 So, you know, I, it, it, it, it would be funny again, if it weren't so depressing,

00:33:45.020 the state of our country and how these people are totally unwilling.

00:33:47.980 Like I was even looking, Francis, I was looking before this episode to see if anyone had written

00:33:51.820 a thoughtful rebuke or like criticism of grave error to see if, if anyone had kind of gone through

00:33:58.380 it and tried to debunk it. And for best I could tell, there hasn't been any effort to do anything

00:34:03.180 like that. Um, there's another, uh, part in your video that just sort of shows, it's almost like

00:34:08.140 a nihilism, right? It's like, people don't care about what the truth is. They, they just care

00:34:13.100 that someone's truth. It's like, we have to respect their truth. Um, and it, it, it does sort of show,

00:34:19.020 um, a sad state of affairs in British Columbia. Any, any final thoughts and where can people,

00:34:23.740 uh, find the documentary? Yes. So it's on YouTube. Uh, the, the documentary, uh, you can just,

00:34:31.500 uh, it's Francis Whittleson 1600. Um, and we are now fundraising to try to produce a whole bunch of

00:34:39.100 other related documentaries on the institutional failure that has surrounded the Kamloops case,

00:34:45.660 um, especially in the universities and in the media, but also institutions like the RCMP

00:34:53.500 and the school board and the coroner's office, just endless institutions that if they had been

00:34:59.820 operating properly, they would have been able to sound the alarm and, you know, created a bit of

00:35:06.060 caution about people making these outlandish claims. And it just doesn't stop because now we

00:35:12.860 have the Cooper Island residential school case, which is just as crazy. And everyone, all the journalists

00:35:19.820 are just covering this in the exact same way, which is just completely lacking in any kind of skepticism

00:35:26.540 and any kind of critical questioning of the claims that, uh, Aboriginal leaders and their lawyers and

00:35:33.260 their consultants are making with respect to these unmarked, unmarked graves. Well, I definitely

00:35:38.700 encourage everyone to go out and watch the documentary and support Francis's work, allow her to do more of

00:35:43.420 these important documentaries to help get the truth out there. Francis, thank you so much for your time and

00:35:47.980 keep up the great work. Thanks for, thanks for having me on. All right, folks, that's all the time we

00:35:52.380 have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Candace Malcolm. This is the Candace Malcolm Show.

00:35:55.260 Thank you and God bless.

00:36:04.540 you

Juno News - August 07, 2025

Based prof HUMILIATES CBC reporter, leaves her in tears over unmarked graves LIES

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