Based prof HUMILIATES CBC reporter, leaves her in tears over unmarked graves LIES
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Summary
In May of 2021, the CDC published a bombshell report. This is what the headline said: Remains of 215 children found buried at former BC residential school. That report was based on a press release put out by the Kamloops Indian Reserve. By the end of the year, the media narrative had taken off on its own.
Transcript
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Hi, I'm Candice Malcolm, and this is The Candice Malcolm Show. We have a great episode for you
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today, folks. We have Professor Frances Widowson joining us in just a few minutes. But first,
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I'm going to spend a bit of time providing some background, giving you a bit of a refresher
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on what has happened in Canada with the story of the unmarked graves and the legacy media
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hoax surrounding it. So we're going to go through a timeline. This episode is brought to you by
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Albertans against no-fault insurance. More on them later. So as you recall, back in May of 2021,
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the CDC published a bombshell report. This is what the headline said, remains of 215 children
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found buried at former BC residential school. That report was based on a press release that was put
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out by the Kamloops Indian Reserve. And let me tell you, the report was based on a preliminary finding.
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It wasn't a detailed report. It wasn't any hard evidence. It was just a claim that a report was
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forthcoming. Well, that didn't matter. The report went around the world. And the way that the media
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covered it globally was even more hysterical than the way the Canadian media reported it. So here you
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see the New York Times had this headline, horrible history, mass graves of Indigenous children reported
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in Canada. And so you can see how they went from unmarked graves to a mass grave. While the Canadian
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media quickly followed suit, the Toronto Star and others started calling them mass graves. Here is
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a report just three days later, May 31st, 2021, from the Toronto Star, mass grave of Indigenous children
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discovered at Kamloops, BC. We all remember how at the time, Prime Minister Justin Trudeau jumped on these
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allegations. He wanted to be in front of them. He wanted to be Mr. Compassionate. And so here he was
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photographed at one of the sites of another First Nations reserve, this one in Saskatchewan,
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that claimed to have found 751 unmarked graves, part of the same moral panic and story. And of course,
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Prime Minister was more than happy to do his photo op there. In reality, that one cemetery is worth
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pointing out in Saskatchewan. That was not part of the residential school. Even in the initial Globe
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and Mail report that was published on July 19, 2021, tucked away at the end of the report, it quotes a
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band leader who said that they knew about the cemetery, that everybody knew about the cemetery.
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It was a rural municipal cemetery. It had people that were Indigenous and non-Indigenous buried there,
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and it was known by the entire community. That doesn't matter. The media narrative had already
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taken off on its own. By the end of 2021, here is the Canadian press named the discovery of the
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unmarked graves as the story of the year. It certainly was the most impactful, the most important
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story of 2021. Part of the problem, folks, to be perfectly honest, is that there was no pushback,
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right? Even the Conservative Party of Canada was more than happy to go along with this. They even
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participated in a motion in the House of Commons saying that genocide was committed. Of course,
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no such thing happened. Us at True North and here at the Candace Malcolm Show, we didn't buy it from
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the very beginning. We were skeptical. We were asking questions. In fact, in 2021, the same year,
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the Candace Malcolm Show, we named it the biggest fake news narrative of the year. It landed at number
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one. And I also published this piece earlier in the year, back in July of 2021, the six things the
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media got wrong about the graves found near the residential schools. I should have written the
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alleged graves found near the residential schools. That became the most read article in the history
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of True North. It was later surpassed by Cosmic Church's reporting on the maps of the churches that
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have been burnt. We had a map of Canada and we kept track of all of the churches that have been
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vandalized or burnt down or victims of arson. I think the total number is over 125 now. And that has
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since become the number one piece that we have reported. But still, we were part of the small
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handful of Canadians that were pushing back against this narrative. And look, folks, the truth has come
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out. The truth has come out. More and more Canadians know that this story is not based on facts. There have
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been no human remains found at these residential schools. In Kamloops, there hasn't been any kind of
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excavation at all. It's based on very sort of preliminary science and something called ground
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penetrating radar that suspects that there are anomalies. They don't even call them graves anymore.
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They call them anomalies. The few places where there have been excavations, no remains have found. And
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even the legacy media has been forced to admit that. So here is the CBC reporting in August of 2023,
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no evidence of human remains found beneath the church at Pine Creek residential school sites. That was
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another one of these sites that was claimed to have bodies been found. When they did the excavation,
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none were found. There are several other examples of places where there have been excavations in
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August 2021. In Nova Scotia, they conducted an excavation at a former site of residential school.
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No bones were found. There's allegations of clandestine burials. Nothing was found. And then again,
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in Edmonton, in October of 2021, there was an excavation done at the Camsell Hospital. And once again,
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no human remains were found. And so that is where we are today. I'm very pleased that True North was
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part of an important book that was published. We published this book called Grave Error. It was
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published in December of 2023. It quickly became the number one bestselling book on Amazon in Canada,
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became a Canadian bestseller. And one of the authors is a collection of essays. It's edited by Dr.
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Champion and Tom Flanagan, a retired professor at the University of Calgary. One of the contributors
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to that book is Frances Whittowson. She is a political scientist and a free speech activist.
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She was an associate professor at Mount Royal University from 2008 until she was dismissed in 2021.
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I'm very pleased to welcome her to the show today. Frances, thank you so much for joining the program.
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Thanks for having me on. Well, first, I want to say that you were dismissed from your role at the
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Mount Royal University, but then your dismissal was deemed to be disproportionate. So after an
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arbiter ruled that the university had acted disproportionately when they dismissed you. So
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why don't you tell us what is the latest with you and Mount Royal University in Calgary?
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Yes. So that decision came down last year. But unfortunately, the arbitrator decided that
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although I had been unjustly terminated, I could not be reinstated because of the friction that
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supposedly existed between me and a number of scholar activists at Mount Royal University who cannot
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tolerate their views being questioned. So my case is being appealed to the Alberta
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Labor Relations Board and that appeal is going to be heard in December of this year. So we'll find
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out whether hopefully the Alberta Labor Relations Board will seriously look at this case. The arbitrator's
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decision, in my view, was seriously flawed and the union agrees as well. So hopefully I will be
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reinstated very shortly to Mount Royal University and be back doing my research and classroom activities
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and providing a much-needed counterbalance to the advocacy that is going on at Mount Royal University
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around things like the unmarked graves and the false claims that were made about that.
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Well, I think the students at that university would be very lucky to have you back there. So let's talk a
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little bit about the book Gravaire. So we published it at the very end of 2023. We just felt like we
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needed to have a counter piece of evidence, right? There's so much misinformation floating around in
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the media. And because of that, there's a perception, I think, in the minds of too many Canadians
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that something horrible, something akin to genocide happened at schools across the country. We just wanted
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something to be able to point to and say, well, like, hear the other side of the story. Hear the side of the
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story that most Canadians believed up until about five years ago. And so you did a great service by
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providing that. Tell us a little bit about why you want to be involved in this project and then
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some of the reaction to the book from your perspective. So I wanted to be involved because
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from very early on, and just like yourself, I was quite skeptical about the claim that was made in May
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2021, because I had been studying the residential schools since, I guess, 2016, after the Truth and
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Reconciliation Report came out. And I thought that the report was very unbalanced and advocacy oriented
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and needed to be critically analyzed. And then when this claim came out, we actually held an event in
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on July 10th, 2021, with Brian Giesbrecht and Rodney Clifton, where we were raising the alarm about how
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this was premature, claiming that remains have been found. And Brian Giesbrecht, in fact, raised the issue
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of the cemeteries, the abandoned cemeteries, of which there are many. But it turns out that Kamloops is not
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an abandoned cemetery because it is the apple orchard. And there's actually a cemetery on the reserve.
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itself, where some children from the residential school are buried. And there are many unmarked
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graves, graves that are now unmarked in that cemetery, because the markers have deteriorated.
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So I sense that there were, there were some problems with these claims, and I wanted them to
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be investigated. But it was a really, it was a huge battle, trying to get pieces published to critique
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that claim. And this book was the first initiative, kind of written initiative, a compilation of the
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work of all the critics who had been working on this issue for a few years by the time that that book
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Well, it's interesting, Frances, because at the time when this happened, I was still writing in
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the Toronto Sun. I wrote for the Toronto Sun for about eight years, finishing at the end of 2021. And so,
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initially, I was writing columns on these stories, and I had no pushback whatsoever from my editor.
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They actually liked it because it was an interesting other side of the story, even though I will tell
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you in my personal life, friends, even professional colleagues, even people at True North were opposed
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to what I was doing. Like I had a member of our board quit. I had an editor quit and rage over this
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stuff. Like they really didn't like this because it was so sensitive at the time, right? Everybody was so
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careful and worried, and they didn't want to be seen as sensitive. And even conservatives said,
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well, you know, we didn't like the idea of residential schools because it's a big government
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program, etc, etc. By the end of 2021, the Toronto Sun told me that I was no longer welcome to publish
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pieces. They didn't tell me why. But this was the kind of thing that I was writing a lot. And like I
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said, I said that it was the biggest hoax of 2021. So connecting those lines, I think that it was part of
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the reason. And you're right, there was almost no coverage of this in the legacy media, despite so
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many voices and so many people just asking really basic questions, not even making any claims, just
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asking questions about like, you know, what the accusations were and, and asking for more facts. Now,
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I want to move this along. So in March of 2024, so some three months after this book was published,
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basically, there was a controversy at the Quesnel City Council, because this book was distributed to
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members of the City Council by the wife of the mayor. And so the Quesnel City Council voted unanimously
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to denounce this book, saying that it downplayed the harms of the residential schools and First Nations,
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and councillors raised concerns that the mayor's wife had been distributing it. And so at that point,
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you were invited or you decided to travel to Quesnel to speak at a City Council meeting. And I have a
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clip from the from the City Council meeting, where you were basically told that you were not welcome
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there. Let's let's play that clip. Does the Council concern itself with misinformation? Is it opposed to
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misinformation being spread and entered into the record? If so, does it agree that this is
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misinformation because there is no evidence of unmarked graves at the Kamloops Indian Residential
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School? Her opinion in this in this chambers does not count. She's asking us to comment on something
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that comes from qualified individuals that dealt with this that lived through this. Ma'am,
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you are not welcome here. So I mean, what a scene, right? Hundreds of people showing up heckling you,
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booing you and you just stating the facts, being very calm and measured, and sort of a hysterical
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reaction to you. So walk us through what happened? What brought you to Quesnel and some background to
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that? Yeah, so Pat Morton, as soon as I heard that Pat Morton was under fire for just sharing the book
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with a friend and sending a copy to the school board saying that they might consider having it in their
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library. She got her husband, the mayor, got attacked. He was being attacked because of her,
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what she had done. Unfortunately, he sort of allowed himself to be, you know, drawn into this
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discussion when he should have just said, look, my wife is not a public figure. She's allowed to share
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books with whoever she wants. Anyway, things started to get really nasty in Quesnel. And for example,
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her son has a tax business, and the band was, you know, withdrew its business. And there was,
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you know, it's a very small community, so it was not pleasant. And she heard there was going to be
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this terrible protest that was going to be happening. So she asked if any, you know, person who was a
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contributor to Grave Era could come. And because I was in Calgary, I was, I was sort of the person to
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decide, like, I volunteered to do it and drive to Quesnel. And when I arrived there and was in the
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gallery, we were supposed to be given some time about a, I'm not sure what the time limit, I heard
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that we were going to be given, everyone was going to be given a certain amount of time to make a
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statement. But I thought that that was going to be unlikely. So I knew, according to the rules,
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you could pose a question from the gallery. So I had both, both things planned. And then
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when I went up there, they allowed the Aboriginal, you know, representatives to talk for, you know,
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minutes on end about things completely unrelated to the agenda. And then they strictly controlled
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what Pat Morton and I could say. And then but I had my question, the most important question,
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which was in this document from the British Columbia Assembly of First Nations. They had
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the false claim that remains of, or graves of 215 children have been found. And so I was asking a
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question specifically on that. And I was booed and treated absolutely horribly by these two councillors,
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Scott Elliott and another councillor's name is Laurie Ann Rudenberg. They were unbelievable in their
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totalitarianism. And that whole meeting was a circus. And it is and Pat Morton was treated,
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she was treated worse than me. So the whole thing was just an embarrassment for that city council. And
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there's a number of city councils who have similar problems, Powell River City Council, and also Sechelt
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City Council. So it's a very dysfunctional situation in terms of the, you know, Aboriginal groups being able
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to control what happens in city councils now. Well, we're going to get to the documentary that you
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published, I think it was last month, where you do an excellent job sort of outlining the sort of
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post-truth world that we live in, where people don't even care about the truth. And you can say,
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like, hey, you said that this book is racist. Can you give me an example of how it's racist?
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And they'll basically accuse you of being racist for just even asking that question and saying that they
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don't need to have any evidence whatsoever. I want to talk about your interview with the CBC
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and with their young reporter out there named Dorden Tucker, which they thankfully, you recorded
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your own side of it, because this was an absolute train wreck, and so embarrassing on behalf of the
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CBC. So this is all in the context of you going up to Quenelle. Maybe before I start playing some clips,
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can you sort of walk us through how this interview came to be? Did she just sort of reach out to you
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out of the blue? Or had you been communicating with her in the past? Let me just give us a bit of
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background. Yes, so I never heard of her, I'd never interacted with her. She had obviously heard that I
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was coming to Quenelle, and, you know, wanted to, you know, find out if there were nefarious things at
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work. And, and so she set up an interview with me. And I think this was the day before or a couple,
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two days before I went to Quenelle. And then we had, she, we set up a Zoom call. This was on Zoom.
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I wish I had a screen, you know, and I now know how to screen record. I wish I'd had a screen
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recording of that, but I just had audio on it. And I was, I was, I've never had an interview like
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that before. I've had bad interviews, but usually the interviews are quite professional. It's in the
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actual piece that is produced afterwards where the problem arises. But this interview, right from the
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start, she was making all these accusations and that what, that's what got me in such a
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confrontational kind of position is because I was being asked all these questions about who was
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paying for my trip and whether I was financially benefiting from it. You know, when, you know, I was
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taking a great deal of time out of my own schedule, I was getting, you know, probably going to get some
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expenses paid, but I wasn't making any money off of it. I was doing it purely to ensure that the
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city council was held to account for the libelous things that they were saying about, you know, the
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contributors of the book Grave Error. Okay. We've got a bunch of clips that we are going to play just
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in a moment, folks. I want to take a second though, to thank the sponsor of today's episode, which is
00:18:29.740
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AlbertansAgainstNoFault.com. That's AlbertansAgainstNoFault.com. All right, Francis, I want to play,
00:19:15.900
let's go with the first clip that we have here, which is alluding to what you were saying, where the
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interviewer, Jordan Tucker, a CVC reporter, is pressing you on who's covering your travel funds. And then I
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spliced it together with a clip later on where you talk about how she's wondering, you know,
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why would people invent or embellish these claims? And you said, well, the government has given them
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seven million dollars, so that's pretty good incentive, seven million dollars, pretty good
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incentive to exaggerate your story. And she kind of like shrugs it off like, oh, who cares about seven
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million dollars? So let's play that clip, please. Are you being, are your travel expenses being paid
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by anyone? Or are you paying them yourself? We'll see what, what washes out of the whole thing.
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What do you mean by that? It depends on how much the expenses are,
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but I don't really see why I have to justify my, my travel to Quesnel to people. I'm coming
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perfectly... Well, if you were invited. I was invited, yes. And you won't tell me by who,
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and I'm wondering, are you selling books? What's your motivation to go?
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First of all, I receive no money whatsoever for the books.
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Don't you think that it's quite like a lot, a lot of trouble to go to, to say that 215 children
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died in order to get seven million dollars? There's a lot of other ways to get seven million dollars.
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I just, I, you, you could have made this up, right? First, you could sense in her voice just how
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insecure she is, how whiny, she just seems really upset. She doesn't want to have to justify anything
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she's doing. And, and, and she's really concerned over, I don't know, I don't know what gas money from
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Calgary to Quesnel is, maybe a few hundred dollars. And then like in the same breath, she's like, oh,
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seven, there's a lot of ways to get seven million dollars. Just totally unbelievable. I want to play one
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more clip for you here. This is unbelievable. This, this goes to show folks how ill-informed some members
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of the press are and sadly how many Canadians are. So, so the, the reporter again, you know,
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you would think that she would come to an interview prepared with facts, with research,
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probably having read the book, or at least the chapter that you could review. You know, you,
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you just wrote one, one chapter of the book. I think it's like 20, 25 pages. I get that it's not
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the easiest book to read, but you can get it at libraries across Canada. You could go and pick this
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book up, read it for free. Just, just even read Francis's one essay in there. You could tell
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she didn't do that. And in the interview, she claims, she claims as fact that 6,000 bodies have
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been found, 6,000 bodies. And you asked her, her source. And she said the Truth and Reconciliation
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Commission report, which is a written report that came out in 2015. It doesn't even make any sense.
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These claims of unmarked graves didn't come out until 2021. You just get a snapshot of just how
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ignorant these people are. Let's play that clip, please.
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Because there's, there's been over 6,000 bodies found at this point. Are all of those?
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I, I'm going with information from the Truth and Reconciliation Commission and then various other
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government bodies. No, no, but you said 6,000 bodies have been found.
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That's the current, that's the current number. Yeah. That's all.
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And you say the Truth and Reconciliation Commission says that 6,000 bodies have been found?
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I'm just, you're the one who made that claim. And as a journalist,
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you should be concerned about the accuracy of your claims.
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Unbelievable. So I guess just, what was it, what was it like to be met with a CBC reporter like that?
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I was, I was amazed. I, I've never seen a level of incompetence. And, you know, she's not a,
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you know, the head of the broadcasting department or anything. She's obviously sort of freelance and
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so on. But still, the CBC used to be, you know, an important media institution that would have had
00:23:16.940
some oversight and be training its, the people that work for it to do proper journalism. And that's
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obviously not happening at all anymore. Well, absolutely. And so I'll just play one more clip
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from this interview. And folks, if you want to watch the whole thing, it's well worth your time.
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Frances has put it up on her YouTube page. We'll link that in the description. So you can go,
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you'll either be like wildly entertained, or just like sorely depressed at the state of the thinking
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behind the journalists in this country. But here is how the interview ends, which is Frances
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rightly calling this journalist out and discrediting her credibility. Let's play that clip.
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I think you really need to read that book, because you do not have an understanding at all.
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Well, you are a seriously incompetent journalist. And this is what the CBC has sunk to these days.
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I don't think that you accusing me or shouting at me is very helpful
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to your case. Well, I don't really think I'm shouting at you. I'm just telling you,
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for someone who is here doing an interview on this case. Ma'am, please stop. Please stop. That's
0.65
00:24:28.460
enough. This interview is now over. Thank you for your time.
00:24:34.060
I mean, just not to not to be too cruel to this young lady, but she was so unprepared for the
00:24:39.500
interview. And any time you called her on her BS or called her out for pushing total lies, she would
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00:24:46.140
just like break character and be like, I don't need this from you or like stop shouting at me or
00:24:51.980
stop interrupting me. And it's like, this is how you have a debate, right? It's like you're making
00:24:56.860
claims that are false. So the person you're interviewing is calling you out on that.
00:25:01.340
And rather than trying to back it up, she just sort of gets upset and pouts and has a temper tantrum.
1.00
00:25:08.300
Okay, Frances, I want to show the audience what the CBC published, because this is just classic CBC
00:25:14.620
deception, right? She records this long interview with you where she stumbles through the facts. She
00:25:20.140
can't get her questions out. And then she gets upset. I think she was in tears and she ended the
00:25:25.020
interview. And yet, to the CBC audience, this is I believe it was a radio segment because we just
00:25:30.300
had the soundbite of it. But this is how they presented it to the public. Let's play that soft
00:25:35.740
five. After indigenous leaders called it harmful and painful. As Jordan Tucker tells us, the author
00:25:42.060
won't say who invited her or if she's being paid for travel costs. There's terrible censoriousness.
00:25:48.140
Frances Widowson co wrote a book casting doubt on the harmfulness of Canada's residential schools.
00:25:53.980
A former professor, she was fired from Calgary's Mount Royal University three years ago,
00:25:58.940
following her comments on the residential school system and the Black Lives Matter movement.
00:26:03.660
The book features articles contesting evidence of unmarked graves at sites across the country.
00:26:08.620
As occurred in the case of the satanic panic, they are people who are distressed,
00:26:14.940
who have their memories influenced by these sorts of things.
00:26:19.020
Unbelievable, Frances. This is why it's so important, folks. Anytime you're
00:26:23.260
being interviewed by a CBC or any journalist, record it yourself. Have your own copy of it so
00:26:29.180
that you can bring the receipts and show the world the real interview. But what did you make of all that?
00:26:35.980
Yes, and the most serious thing, and I think it's very valuable for people to look at that interview
00:26:42.860
because it shows the thought process of not just this particular journalist, but people who believe
00:26:49.820
this claim. And it was about her arguing that the 215 bodies have been found. We got into a big
00:26:57.180
skirmish about this. And she said that, you know, why would, you know, all these smart people in the
00:27:02.620
government, why would they believe this if it weren't true? Like, this is a journalist. A journalist is
00:27:08.300
supposed to be, you know, holding leaders to account and so on. But she has been completely
00:27:13.420
credulous in her, you know, in her interaction with leaders, you know, politicians, Aboriginal leaders,
00:27:22.380
and so on. So I think it's a very valuable thing to look at just from the thought processes that are
00:27:29.260
going on about this case. Well, in your chapter in Grave Error, you do talk about the moral panic
00:27:37.020
of the 1980s with the satanic daycare scandal, which I didn't know that much about. I learned
00:27:41.420
it from your book. But it seemed like in the interview, she was kind of drawing you down a
00:27:44.860
bit of a rabbit hole. And then she took that one little clip and kind of played it out of context
00:27:49.500
to make it seem like you were talking about satanic rituals or something like that. Like it was,
00:27:53.500
it was just classic bait and switch, like deceptive journalism. And I'm glad that you again posted it
00:28:01.340
so that Canadians can see, okay, Francis, I want to move on to this excellent documentary that you
00:28:06.140
have released. And I don't know when it was published, but I watched it a few days ago,
00:28:12.140
and it really is worth your time. It's called What Remains Exposing the Kamloops Massgrave
00:28:16.540
Deception's Impact on Powell River. So can you tell us about why you chose to do a documentary
00:28:23.180
on Powell River, right? Like, I think that a lot of people are focusing on what's happening in
00:28:27.500
Kamloops and that Indian reservation. Talk to us about what's happening in Powell River.
00:28:33.980
Yeah, so this documentary is actually the initial one in a series that Simon Haregott, who is a
00:28:40.940
videographer and journalist, he was a journalist who worked for Global News for 10 years, and was fired
00:28:46.780
because of his opposition to the media outlets coverage of a number of issues. He's an
00:28:52.780
incredible talent. And he was the one who did most of the work on this documentary, I was involved in
00:28:59.660
and sort of with some of the background information that I had and, and obviously was featured in it.
00:29:06.220
But anyway, we're planning on doing another more in depth kinds of examinations in the Kamloops case
00:29:14.220
itself, and the massive institutional failure that is, that has happened in the media, in the school
00:29:22.060
board, the universities, and all these institutions, which really explain why this deception has taken
00:29:29.580
root. But what people don't understand is that although this happened in Kamloops, this claim that was
00:29:36.140
made in May 2021 has had far-reaching consequences. And one of the consequences was in the town of Powell River,
00:29:47.340
where this claim was used by the chief of the local Indian band to demand, to make the demand that the
00:29:55.180
town's name should be changed. And it turns out, and another reason was that the town was supposedly
00:30:02.540
named after Israel Wood Powell, who was the superintendent, who was a head official in the
00:30:07.980
Department of Indian Affairs. It turns out that the town was not even named after Israel Wood Powell,
00:30:13.500
it was named after Edward Powell, who was a cartographer who had mapped the area. So both of the claims behind
00:30:20.940
why this town's name should be changed were not correct, yet they're still continuing to press for
00:30:27.180
this. And this has completely ripped apart this community. And this is the kind of thing that these
00:30:34.060
so-called truth and reconciliation efforts do, is that they have nothing to do with truth. It is about,
00:30:40.700
you know, these fomenting these falsehoods so that, you know, grievances can be stirred up. And then,
00:30:46.940
of course, it results in all these fights between people, which then benefit all the legal disputes
00:30:54.620
that are going to emerge out of all these interactions. And one of the biggest things
00:30:59.580
that's happened that has also impacted Powell River is the Kamloops claim was used to push through
00:31:06.220
the United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples into federal legislation. There
00:31:12.300
was opposition from both the Conservative Party and six provinces. And when that claim was made,
00:31:18.540
everyone just was saying, well, what can we do to right this wrong? And that allowed that
00:31:23.660
legislation to be pushed through. So now we've got to deal with a whole bunch of implications of what
00:31:30.300
it means to have this kind of internationalist notion undermine Canadian sovereignty and all the
00:31:38.540
disputes, all the legal disputes that are going to result from that. So we went into Powell River,
00:31:43.980
Simon Hergott and me, and did a lot of footage of the various kinds of problems that existed in Powell
00:31:50.940
River. And it was quite a fascinating case study, which showed a lot of the, you know, flawed thought
00:31:57.580
processes that are occurring with respect to the Kamloops case.
00:32:00.780
Well, you do an excellent job, the documentary does an excellent job debunking some of the
00:32:05.340
prevalences, exposing the sort of industry around First Nations, like the consultants, and sometimes
00:32:11.020
even the academic professors. You debunked a New York Times documentary or clip segment pretending to
00:32:18.780
show that they had found babies buried. And you had a geophysicist who said, there's no way, you know,
00:32:24.140
these images of the guys showing on the screen are maybe 10 to 12 centimeters. Those aren't remains
00:32:29.820
of humans. Those are probably boulders or animal burrows. There's another part where a protester shows up to
00:32:37.420
protest you, you confront her. We're going to play this clip of you just trying to engage with a
00:32:43.180
protestor and just showing how totally unprepared and unwilling these people are to debate their ideas.
00:32:53.420
Are you not interested in what my arguments are?
00:33:03.980
I don't need to speak your work back to you. I'm not in a lecture. I'm not your student. I won't be
00:33:14.060
No, but do you want to be accurate in your, the way you're portraying my work?
00:33:29.020
But, but what, if you're going to say that my work is racist,
00:33:33.500
don't you think that you have a responsibility to say why you think it's racist?
00:33:37.980
So, you know, I, it, it, it, it would be funny again, if it weren't so depressing,
00:33:45.020
the state of our country and how these people are totally unwilling.
00:33:47.980
Like I was even looking, Francis, I was looking before this episode to see if anyone had written
00:33:51.820
a thoughtful rebuke or like criticism of grave error to see if, if anyone had kind of gone through
00:33:58.380
it and tried to debunk it. And for best I could tell, there hasn't been any effort to do anything
00:34:03.180
like that. Um, there's another, uh, part in your video that just sort of shows, it's almost like
00:34:08.140
a nihilism, right? It's like, people don't care about what the truth is. They, they just care
00:34:13.100
that someone's truth. It's like, we have to respect their truth. Um, and it, it, it does sort of show,
00:34:19.020
um, a sad state of affairs in British Columbia. Any, any final thoughts and where can people,
00:34:23.740
uh, find the documentary? Yes. So it's on YouTube. Uh, the, the documentary, uh, you can just,
00:34:31.500
uh, it's Francis Whittleson 1600. Um, and we are now fundraising to try to produce a whole bunch of
00:34:39.100
other related documentaries on the institutional failure that has surrounded the Kamloops case,
00:34:45.660
um, especially in the universities and in the media, but also institutions like the RCMP
00:34:53.500
and the school board and the coroner's office, just endless institutions that if they had been
00:34:59.820
operating properly, they would have been able to sound the alarm and, you know, created a bit of
00:35:06.060
caution about people making these outlandish claims. And it just doesn't stop because now we
00:35:12.860
have the Cooper Island residential school case, which is just as crazy. And everyone, all the journalists
00:35:19.820
are just covering this in the exact same way, which is just completely lacking in any kind of skepticism
00:35:26.540
and any kind of critical questioning of the claims that, uh, Aboriginal leaders and their lawyers and
00:35:33.260
their consultants are making with respect to these unmarked, unmarked graves. Well, I definitely
00:35:38.700
encourage everyone to go out and watch the documentary and support Francis's work, allow her to do more of
00:35:43.420
these important documentaries to help get the truth out there. Francis, thank you so much for your time and
00:35:47.980
keep up the great work. Thanks for, thanks for having me on. All right, folks, that's all the time we
00:35:52.380
have for today. Thank you so much for tuning in. I'm Candace Malcolm. This is the Candace Malcolm Show.