Juno News - April 23, 2024


Blaine Higgs on parental rights, gender identity, and being labelled “far right”


Episode Stats

Length

30 minutes

Words per Minute

191.37852

Word Count

5,878

Sentence Count

227

Misogynist Sentences

1

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary

In this episode, former Prime Minister Brian Gallant sits down with New Brunswick Premier Chris Brunell to discuss parental rights, gender identity and sexual education in public schools, and the challenges faced by parents across the country when it comes to their child's education.


Transcript

00:00:00.000 All my life I've wondered how to get a standing ovation, and apparently it's to walk on stage
00:00:14.180 with Premier Higgs, so thank you for letting me bask in that.
00:00:17.980 And thank you to everyone for being here this morning.
00:00:21.120 I love the format of the fireside chat, mainly because it's Ottawa and you need to be by
00:00:25.880 the side of a fire to survive for nine of the 12 months of the year.
00:00:28.760 But also we get the chance, especially in front of an audience like this, to delve into
00:00:32.940 some of the issues that I don't think you get on your average CBC panel.
00:00:37.880 And that doesn't mean we're going to give you a totally easy ride on this, Premier, but
00:00:41.540 I do want to give you the chance to talk about issues that I know matter to people in this
00:00:44.900 room and those watching from beyond.
00:00:47.260 And normally you try to warm up to the controversial stuff, but I feel like you can take the controversial
00:00:51.940 stuff because you've been quite a leader on this issue.
00:00:54.580 So let's start with transgender issues and parental rights.
00:00:58.760 Because start there and then we'll see how it goes, because this is an issue that we
00:01:08.000 understand why other Premiers have taken actions they've taken in the last few months on this.
00:01:12.660 In a lot of cases, it was because you had and they had their own supporters pushing them
00:01:16.840 to do very similar things.
00:01:18.760 You were the first one.
00:01:19.820 So let me just ask you, when you put that policy forward that required parental consent
00:01:24.920 for gender changes, for re-identifications at school, why did you go there?
00:01:31.000 Well, thank you for the question, Andrew.
00:01:32.620 I guess the point was that we, throughout this whole duration of being in politics, I came
00:01:38.140 at a time when I already had a career.
00:01:40.020 And I wanted to bring a lot of ideas that I learned and decision processes that I learned,
00:01:45.040 but also on the foundational principle that, you know, you do what's right and the rest
00:01:48.640 will fall in place.
00:01:49.820 Now that doesn't always work in politics, it seems, but nevertheless, that's the philosophy
00:01:53.300 we live by.
00:01:54.580 And through this whole discussion, it became a policy that kind of got into our educational
00:01:59.440 system without a whole lot of discussion or detailed discussion with our caucus.
00:02:03.920 And after the election of 2020, and then a little while after, we started, I started
00:02:09.340 asking questions about it in detail.
00:02:11.260 And then when I read the paragraph that basically caused teachers to hide information from parents
00:02:16.560 and to do so as part of the request of the policy, I, you know, this just wasn't right.
00:02:23.040 This isn't the foundation of families that we build on.
00:02:27.120 And it was interesting, my wife and I talked about this prior to making it an issue.
00:02:31.520 And by the way, we've been married, I believe, 46 years this summer, and four daughters, five
00:02:38.600 grandchildren are very close to our family.
00:02:42.000 And the idea that we would hide information, we thought, what would we, how would we like
00:02:46.660 that if that happened?
00:02:48.380 So then we started bringing it as a question.
00:02:50.620 And then we saw some of the curriculum that was being taught on a parent or a school day,
00:02:55.440 a school teacher's day.
00:02:57.320 And you'd say, or a professional development day is what it's called.
00:03:00.400 So anyway, you'd see, you'd see, wow, where's the curriculum here that involves math and
00:03:05.100 science and literacy and numeracy?
00:03:07.620 Where's that in all this?
00:03:09.860 So the challenge was, how do you have the debate on a sensitive issue, recognizing the
00:03:15.900 reality of it all, but finding a path to do it?
00:03:18.920 And I think that we have walked away from too many controversial issues, and that is why
00:03:23.840 we've seen kind of an erosion of what we might have always considered standard.
00:03:28.540 It becomes normalized.
00:03:29.920 And it's not because it's normal, it's normal, it's different.
00:03:33.520 And we are a society that absolutely recognizes and supports all of our differences.
00:03:39.980 But let's not exclude family as part of that process.
00:03:42.420 It was an issue that, for someone like me who doesn't follow New Brunswick politics explicitly,
00:03:51.660 and I'd say probably has done so a little bit more thanks to you and stuff you've been
00:03:55.120 doing there, it was not something that was really accurately defined by the media, what
00:04:01.460 you did.
00:04:02.020 I think before I read the actual...
00:04:03.420 Yeah, it is.
00:04:04.940 Well, as we heard from the last panel, it's okay.
00:04:07.380 They should have just been watching, reading The Line and other outlets like that.
00:04:10.940 But you were doing something that was a relatively moderate proposal.
00:04:16.860 And even a lot of people that are in the parental rights space that have been advocating for something
00:04:21.100 similar were saying, well, it's a compromise, he's not going far enough, it's a good start.
00:04:26.660 But you were, to the activists that were against you, it was as though you had gone so far,
00:04:32.160 you had done something so radical, you had done something so far-right is the term.
00:04:35.800 I mean, did you ever imagine that you would be labeled as far-right when you were elected
00:04:39.520 as premier, you know, going back to 2013?
00:04:42.580 And why is this issue one that has been maligned in that way?
00:04:46.580 Well, just recently I was asked about a case of the far-right, and isn't it amazing that
00:04:51.780 in today's world, far-right is having parents involved with their kids?
00:04:55.960 Isn't that amazing?
00:04:57.440 So I say that tells you how far the spectrum has actually moved and how we need to find a
00:05:01.440 path forward.
00:05:02.480 But in analyzing kind of what we wanted to bring forward is let's address this.
00:05:07.120 And then looking abroad, looking at what's going on in Europe, particularly what's going
00:05:10.140 on in Europe, about how they manage real issues around gender dysphoria, but how they look
00:05:14.800 at it as, you know, getting the right process for treatment and through psychologists, psychiatrists
00:05:19.440 to understand, okay, how do we manage this?
00:05:21.340 Because in some cases it's very real, but in other cases it's a process of kids growing
00:05:25.960 up, and that's where parents are that one continuum in their life.
00:05:30.540 And so we just say, okay, we want parents to be involved.
00:05:33.640 And no, I didn't imagine it would be such a controversial issue because it seems like
00:05:38.860 such a basic, fundamental principle that we all cherish.
00:05:43.320 One of the things that I find interesting, though, is that there are a lot of issues that tend
00:05:50.620 to be within the domain of what we would call social conservatives.
00:05:53.760 And these issues tend to get treated as political third rails.
00:05:57.300 You can't talk about this.
00:05:58.300 You can't talk about that.
00:05:59.740 This is an issue that I think is very much in a line with where a lot of social conservatives
00:06:04.100 wanted to take society.
00:06:05.260 But it seems to have a broader appeal.
00:06:07.780 I mean, the number of folks that I've spoken to that have supported what you've done in New
00:06:11.180 Brunswick, or what Premier Danielle Smith has done in Alberta, that would not identify
00:06:15.700 as pro-life, would not identify as anti-gay marriage.
00:06:20.360 But on this issue, they're there.
00:06:22.800 What do you make of that?
00:06:23.640 I mean, how has there been a coalition that does seem to be very large, not just within
00:06:28.180 the conservative movement, but even within society itself, behind some of these policies?
00:06:33.480 I think the risk we're facing in Canada, and the risk that we see in the U.S., is we've
00:06:41.020 drifted so far from what people look at as common sense, and to how to manage the next steps.
00:06:47.200 And we've drifted ideologically so far that all of a sudden people kind of say, whoa,
00:06:53.020 this has to be addressed.
00:06:55.360 So I think what we're seeing is, okay, here's something that's so basic, so fundamental,
00:06:59.120 and yet it's an issue.
00:07:00.640 But it will cause us, I think, to all be part of the solution.
00:07:05.160 And when I think that we put teachers in a position to not be truthful with the child's
00:07:09.820 parents, why aren't teachers speaking up and saying, you know, we need to be part of
00:07:14.440 this?
00:07:15.100 And when we talk about, okay, this can be irreparable surgeries that could happen to
00:07:21.520 young children, why aren't doctors speaking up and saying, okay, we believe we need to
00:07:26.360 manage this, we need this, how it needs to be done?
00:07:28.140 I refer to the European model now that Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the U.K. have all changed
00:07:34.740 their policies to look at a different way to deal with the problem.
00:07:38.220 Always recognize there's a problem, and always recognizing there's a way to protect every
00:07:42.580 individual in their beliefs and how we manage through that.
00:07:46.860 But not just ignoring the reality of what makes sense and what's real.
00:07:52.400 So I think that's the purpose for me, is that we need to find the moderate approach here.
00:07:58.820 And sometimes the definition, because you saw what happened in New Brunswick, so we are
00:08:04.360 a progressive conservative party, but people jump on one side or the other wholeheartedly
00:08:08.460 without trying to find the balance in the middle.
00:08:11.000 And that's what we're trying to find.
00:08:12.480 And sometimes it creates a bit of a firestorm.
00:08:14.960 My wife will often say when I come home at night, what fire did you start today?
00:08:19.140 And she said, I was reading the news.
00:08:20.820 And I said, that's your first problem, you shouldn't do that.
00:08:23.820 As long as it's true north, we'll forgive her.
00:08:25.800 All right, fair enough.
00:08:26.780 There's one, good for you.
00:08:27.820 Let me ask you, before we get on to that definitional problem, which I think is tremendously important,
00:08:32.120 did you anticipate that you were starting something that would become a pretty national wave?
00:08:37.860 And I'm curious if you had other conversations with premiers on either way that say,
00:08:42.300 hey, thank you for breaking the seal on this so we can, or what the hell are you doing?
00:08:46.120 Do you realize what my caucus expects me to do now?
00:08:48.280 Well, yes, we certainly have talked amongst colleagues.
00:08:53.800 And certainly, you know, I had discussions with many, many, and many have different views.
00:08:59.900 And that's what we are in Canada.
00:09:01.720 But I certainly look at what Saskatchewan is doing and what Daniel Smith is doing in Alberta.
00:09:10.320 And I guess I'd like to think that at the end of the day, we'll find a solution that doesn't seem to be far right.
00:09:17.740 It just seems to be really right.
00:09:20.420 And I mean by that, it's such a correct path forward.
00:09:24.280 And so in those discussions, and did I think it would turn into a national thing?
00:09:28.100 No, that wasn't a discussion.
00:09:29.060 When my wife and I talked about this, and I said, you know, this is going to be the week, we're going to talk about this.
00:09:34.520 We both realized this could be the issue that either continues us in government or takes us out.
00:09:43.640 But we were both prepared to say, fair enough.
00:09:46.200 And so, and I think there lies the whole challenge that we have as a society, as politicians, as members of any profession,
00:09:58.460 which I just stated with health care and with education, is to say, I will do what I believe is correct.
00:10:06.240 I will voice my opinion in a very respectful, mannerful way to improve what I believe needs to be improved.
00:10:13.020 And it doesn't have to be protests and blowing horns and jumping on the street,
00:10:17.160 but it has very adult discussions that say, I'm not afraid to talk about it.
00:10:21.440 Let's talk about that progressive conservative name, because that's always been to many people an inherent contradiction.
00:10:28.700 And you have some people in the conservative family in this country that say, no, I'm a proud progressive conservative,
00:10:34.220 and that means something very specific to them.
00:10:36.400 You have others that just sort of tolerate it, because that's the name of the party.
00:10:39.280 And we also don't have, in Canada, the harmonization of the federal and provincial right-leaning parties,
00:10:45.460 which is why you have this patchwork from B.C., where you now have two warring parties that are going for right-of-center votes,
00:10:51.980 and you have, in Alberta, a complete unique situation there.
00:10:55.580 I'm curious how that, I was just trying to gloss over that, but I heard a laugh,
00:10:59.000 that was apparently a laugh line for someone from Alberta.
00:11:01.200 But I'm curious about your perspective on that in New Brunswick,
00:11:04.660 because you're a progressive conservative premier, and I think that a lot of people would say
00:11:08.140 that you are putting forward very ironclad, small-c conservative principles,
00:11:12.280 with no need for a qualifier there.
00:11:14.540 But how does that affect your navigation of that coalition that you have in New Brunswick,
00:11:19.140 and also how New Brunswick fits into the Canadian conservative family?
00:11:23.360 Well, it adds in kind of a new dimension of, I won't say confusion,
00:11:28.120 but certainly an irony there that exists with the two, with the progressive conservative,
00:11:32.760 because some people will grab ahold of the progressive piece,
00:11:35.120 and some people will grab ahold of the conservative piece,
00:11:37.580 and then you have to kind of bridge that within caucus.
00:11:40.460 And as you know, back last June, I didn't bridge that very successfully,
00:11:44.400 because I had six members of caucus that basically stood against the government
00:11:48.540 and voted against the government.
00:11:50.720 So it does bring an issue.
00:11:54.020 But I think at the same time, it's how do you have the discussions,
00:11:59.380 and coming from a business world, and I know people say,
00:12:02.500 well, you know, sometimes you just move along too fast.
00:12:05.600 I'll have a lot of meetings, a lot of debate, a lot of discussions,
00:12:08.760 and there comes a point in time where you've just got to get on with it.
00:12:11.680 And so we got on with it last June, after numerous meetings in caucus and such,
00:12:16.640 but there were six individuals, maybe eight, that were not happy with that.
00:12:22.880 And it causes angst.
00:12:24.720 So you can see the political upheaval that kind of creates.
00:12:29.460 And we were joking here, coming in, talking about,
00:12:33.180 because I did in the State of the Province,
00:12:35.800 people didn't know if I was going to run again,
00:12:38.020 and I put a song at the end of it, an old clash song that said,
00:12:41.080 should I stay or should I go?
00:12:43.220 And I kind of danced off the stage.
00:12:45.500 But this time, when we did the State of the Province,
00:12:48.360 there's a lot of great things to talk about in the province,
00:12:50.160 and I was thinking my song should be the Elton John one,
00:12:53.900 that I'm still standing.
00:12:56.880 But I was recommended against that.
00:12:59.520 Well, Premier Higgs is leading karaoke in the Shore Club
00:13:02.220 downstairs at 10 o'clock Eastern time.
00:13:05.480 But I'll ask you on that, Premier.
00:13:07.520 When you mention those six members that left your caucus,
00:13:10.780 do you view that as being, if I could just use a blunt word,
00:13:15.120 a failure of your leadership to keep your party together?
00:13:17.540 Or do you believe that the coalition was too broad
00:13:20.020 and those people really didn't belong in your party in the first place?
00:13:24.640 No, it's a challenge that I, you know, probably,
00:13:28.380 if my interest was how do I survive the next election,
00:13:31.420 then I probably would have found a different way
00:13:35.020 to try to manage through it,
00:13:36.160 but I wouldn't have had the same result.
00:13:37.340 And that, I think, is what happens to many of us
00:13:41.020 as we get watered down in our own beliefs
00:13:43.660 because we're trying to appease the masses.
00:13:47.800 We had diverse opinions, but that goes two ways.
00:13:50.460 It goes two ways that, okay,
00:13:51.960 if I have 80% of caucus that are on side and want to move forward,
00:13:55.380 and I have 20% that don't,
00:13:57.160 it's rare if ever you get a consensus within caucus of unity.
00:14:00.340 It just doesn't happen, or extremely rare.
00:14:04.640 So the point that, okay, we have the majority of caucus,
00:14:07.780 we're ready to move on this,
00:14:09.500 and the Minister of Education, he and I, we're ready to move.
00:14:12.520 We've presented, we've talked.
00:14:13.960 It was time.
00:14:15.360 So, yeah, we could have talked about it a lot longer,
00:14:18.440 but I didn't see an end in sight.
00:14:20.740 It was going to be, we were never going to convince some,
00:14:24.200 all the while we had full support of, as I say, 80% of the caucus.
00:14:29.100 But let me extend that thought to its logical conclusion here
00:14:32.660 because if it sounds like, I'm going to do one of those,
00:14:34.760 it sounds like you're saying things,
00:14:36.640 like Kathy Newman and Jordan Peterson,
00:14:38.460 but I'm going to try to actually represent what you're saying,
00:14:40.980 or at least as I understand it,
00:14:42.560 that there's a risk for conservative parties
00:14:44.620 of trying to be too many things to too many people,
00:14:47.380 and that this big tent,
00:14:48.780 which is often viewed as a feature of the conservative movement,
00:14:51.520 actually carries its own cohesion challenges.
00:14:54.200 Oh, it does.
00:14:55.200 Absolutely does.
00:14:56.300 And what you're seeing is, I mean, we see the Liberal Party.
00:14:59.040 I mean, if you want to talk about far left,
00:15:00.820 I mean, how far can you get?
00:15:03.880 And this isn't a political...
00:15:04.820 Don't challenge them.
00:15:05.760 They'll find a way.
00:15:07.140 This is not a political discussion, though, is it?
00:15:08.620 I agree.
00:15:09.860 But the idea, and you see, to your point,
00:15:12.580 you raised earlier, that that's where the spectrum is going,
00:15:14.800 and everybody, everybody is taking,
00:15:16.360 oh, well, I'm way over here on the left side.
00:15:19.040 And I think that is our job as conservatives
00:15:21.680 to find the way to have the detailed discussions
00:15:26.680 and the frank discussions.
00:15:27.940 And I'm saying that what I'm excited about,
00:15:30.180 and he'll be here a little later, Pierre Polyev,
00:15:32.760 what I've seen from the rallies he's had in New Brunswick
00:15:35.320 and the people that are showing up,
00:15:36.900 we went to a rally,
00:15:37.700 the average age was probably 35,000, 1,200 people.
00:15:41.080 I think that's just wonderful
00:15:42.360 to see young people coming into our party
00:15:45.040 and getting involved.
00:15:48.920 Since you mentioned Pierre Polyev,
00:15:51.280 who will be here at 11.30 and not right now,
00:15:53.880 as some people were disappointed to see me on stage,
00:15:56.640 but he has been touring the country on his...
00:16:00.480 It started as the Axe the Tax rally,
00:16:02.180 and now it's the Spike the Hike rally,
00:16:03.620 and I think there's going to be another rhyme next week.
00:16:05.260 But the galvanizing issue
00:16:07.580 for the federal conservatives right now
00:16:09.100 has been opposing the carbon tax,
00:16:11.160 and this has been an issue certainly in your province as well.
00:16:14.780 We've seen provinces sue the federal government.
00:16:17.180 We've seen the Supreme Court side against provinces on this.
00:16:20.160 And then I think for the most part,
00:16:21.560 the federal government's carbon tax was pretty safe
00:16:23.620 until they decided that Atlantic Canadians
00:16:26.300 with home heating oil needed a bit of a carve-out,
00:16:28.440 and then it sort of undermined their whole premise here.
00:16:31.400 And I'm curious for you,
00:16:33.280 first off, how much of an issue is that electorally speaking,
00:16:36.760 as you gear up for an election for people in New Brunswick,
00:16:39.360 this carbon tax,
00:16:40.640 but also how do you anticipate this going
00:16:44.840 when you have a federal government
00:16:46.120 that right now doesn't even want to meet
00:16:48.340 with premiers on this issue,
00:16:50.140 which is...
00:16:50.500 I mean, Justin Trudeau loves talking,
00:16:52.220 and he loves people having to hear him talk,
00:16:54.200 but this is like one opportunity
00:16:56.040 to sit down that he doesn't want to take
00:16:58.360 because he doesn't want to hear
00:16:59.200 what the premiers, like you, have to tell him.
00:17:01.860 Well, it's disappointing, but you get used to it.
00:17:04.820 So sometimes you don't bother, but we are bothering.
00:17:09.260 So there was a question asked that,
00:17:11.560 oh, well, if other provinces have a solution,
00:17:13.180 then let us know.
00:17:14.700 So the idea for us in New Brunswick,
00:17:17.580 and worldwide, really,
00:17:19.020 is for Canada to punch well above its weight
00:17:21.560 in terms of reducing world emissions.
00:17:23.760 We can talk about our 1.8% of world emissions,
00:17:26.380 and we can cause everybody
00:17:27.400 in every household across this country
00:17:29.180 to spend more and have less and do less.
00:17:32.980 Or we can say we've always been a nation
00:17:35.220 that's rich in energy.
00:17:36.840 It has given us the lifestyle we have,
00:17:39.200 but it's also given us the ability to help others.
00:17:41.620 So isn't it sad?
00:17:42.600 When I was in Europe a few years ago,
00:17:44.720 spring talking to different people
00:17:46.140 that was after the invasion in Ukraine,
00:17:50.080 and they're saying all through this,
00:17:51.680 we're absolutely shocked
00:17:52.680 that a country as rich as Canada
00:17:55.900 is not supplying any energy to Europe
00:17:58.980 to offset Russian oil and gas.
00:18:01.700 Absolutely shocked.
00:18:03.640 So when you think about that for a minute,
00:18:06.420 we've spent how many millions or billions
00:18:08.380 to help Ukraine?
00:18:09.900 So on the one hand,
00:18:10.860 we supply arms to the war,
00:18:13.480 which we're not regurging.
00:18:14.680 We wanted to do that.
00:18:16.400 But then on the other hand,
00:18:17.560 we're forcing them to buy Russian oil and gas
00:18:21.360 and finance from the other side.
00:18:23.120 So then you look at what can we do about that
00:18:25.380 in addition to supplying what we have here.
00:18:28.180 On the world emissions side,
00:18:29.340 we in New Brunswick,
00:18:30.060 we have 77 trillion standard cubic feet
00:18:32.340 of natural gas sitting,
00:18:34.100 waiting to be developed.
00:18:35.480 Out west, this is happening.
00:18:37.100 We have an LNG plant
00:18:38.220 that is waiting to be converted
00:18:40.220 to an export facility.
00:18:41.860 It is an import built back 15 years ago.
00:18:44.680 So we have supply.
00:18:46.380 We have market.
00:18:47.240 We have four countries,
00:18:48.500 right without even asking,
00:18:49.640 saying we'll sign up for a 20-year deal.
00:18:52.000 We have 174 coal plants in Europe.
00:18:55.440 We have China building coal plants
00:18:57.140 at the rate of two a week,
00:18:58.660 100 a year.
00:18:59.840 They operate 1,100 coal plants.
00:19:02.260 For every coal plant that's shut down
00:19:03.860 by natural gas,
00:19:04.760 we reduce emissions by 50%.
00:19:06.280 So you say,
00:19:07.800 wow, we have an opportunity
00:19:08.860 right here in New Brunswick
00:19:09.780 to shut down coal plants.
00:19:11.940 Total Energy,
00:19:12.800 a major,
00:19:13.400 one of the world's largest energy companies,
00:19:15.740 said one of their key pillars,
00:19:18.440 of their four pillars,
00:19:19.680 is to develop as much natural gas
00:19:21.280 worldwide as they can
00:19:22.320 and shut down as many coal plants
00:19:23.760 as they can
00:19:24.260 because it'll have a bigger impact,
00:19:26.200 quicker impact
00:19:26.840 than anything else that is happening.
00:19:28.960 And at the same time,
00:19:30.500 the affordability issue in our country
00:19:32.060 goes away or diminishes greatly
00:19:34.040 because we'll use those same resources
00:19:36.040 to fund technology,
00:19:37.200 research, development.
00:19:38.320 And when do people start using
00:19:39.600 and acting differently?
00:19:41.000 You know, I think years ago
00:19:41.920 about the film industry
00:19:42.820 when digital photography come along,
00:19:45.100 where would you find a film camera now?
00:19:47.300 And the same thing with the LED lights?
00:19:49.120 Well, now you just look for LED lights
00:19:50.640 because of their brightness
00:19:52.180 and their energy consumption.
00:19:53.720 When we have the ability
00:19:54.920 to have that sort of technological advancement,
00:19:57.040 people will change their ambits.
00:19:59.080 We'll be able to meet the requirements
00:20:00.660 which we cannot meet today
00:20:02.020 from the federal policies.
00:20:03.760 We are putting forward a policy
00:20:05.420 to the, and I actually have it
00:20:07.600 coincidentally here with me,
00:20:09.020 and it's called No Tax Required,
00:20:13.020 Just Support Us Developing Gas
00:20:15.520 and Shutting Down Coal Plants
00:20:16.560 in the Process.
00:20:17.280 And I'm submitting that letter
00:20:18.400 to the Prime Minister
00:20:19.400 and saying here's an option.
00:20:21.320 You wanted a solution?
00:20:22.260 Here it is.
00:20:22.980 But think out of the box.
00:20:24.240 Think bigger.
00:20:25.140 Think of the impact
00:20:25.900 that this country can have
00:20:27.040 on worldwide emissions,
00:20:28.340 not in our own little bubble
00:20:29.840 of 1.8%.
00:20:30.920 I must say,
00:20:36.960 I've been quite surprised
00:20:38.800 that Justin Trudeau
00:20:39.660 keeps inviting European heads
00:20:41.220 of government and state here
00:20:42.220 because every time they come,
00:20:43.860 they all do an interview
00:20:44.840 with, you know,
00:20:45.620 Vashi Capellos or something
00:20:46.880 and say,
00:20:47.160 oh, I'd love to buy LNG.
00:20:48.400 And then Justin Trudeau
00:20:49.100 has to come out and say,
00:20:49.680 oh, there's no business case.
00:20:50.780 But it is quite,
00:20:51.920 I mean, it's a joke,
00:20:53.000 I mean, a lot of the government's a joke,
00:20:55.280 but there's a particular absurdity to this
00:20:58.540 in that you have people
00:20:59.480 literally lining up
00:21:00.640 to buy something.
00:21:02.340 You have industry lining up
00:21:03.740 to sell something.
00:21:05.460 And the only,
00:21:06.160 to appropriate the language
00:21:07.260 of one of our next speakers,
00:21:08.740 the gatekeeper,
00:21:10.140 is the federal government.
00:21:11.400 And we're not even looking
00:21:12.440 for an issue here.
00:21:14.520 It's not an issue
00:21:15.080 where someone is looking
00:21:15.780 for a subsidy.
00:21:17.360 They're looking for permission.
00:21:19.060 Exactly.
00:21:19.380 And that's the sole absurdity here.
00:21:22.720 It's actually quite despicable.
00:21:24.180 You have industry,
00:21:25.220 you have buyers,
00:21:26.140 you have an economic argument for it,
00:21:27.920 you have an environmental argument for it,
00:21:29.560 and a federal government
00:21:30.620 standing in the way.
00:21:31.780 And I mean,
00:21:32.120 as a premier,
00:21:33.080 do you feel like
00:21:33.920 this is just bad policy
00:21:35.960 or do you feel
00:21:36.380 this is illegal policy?
00:21:37.480 This is government
00:21:37.980 actually violating
00:21:38.860 its constitutional requirements
00:21:40.420 to respect
00:21:41.060 what's supposed to be your domain?
00:21:43.160 All of the above.
00:21:44.880 And it's not the only one.
00:21:46.540 Right?
00:21:46.980 And it's kind of
00:21:49.700 we're getting used to
00:21:50.400 the bad policy phenomena
00:21:51.660 from Ottawa.
00:21:53.520 The concept, I think,
00:21:55.320 of this for us
00:21:56.740 is that we don't need
00:21:57.580 federal money,
00:21:58.080 at your point,
00:21:58.480 it's a business case.
00:21:59.280 Out west,
00:22:00.420 they didn't need federal money.
00:22:01.340 It was a bad law
00:22:01.960 that caused them
00:22:02.960 to have to buy a pipeline
00:22:03.900 and that was, what,
00:22:04.560 four or five times more
00:22:05.680 in the expense to taxpayers?
00:22:07.260 We don't want them
00:22:08.040 to have any part of this.
00:22:09.480 We should just leave us alone.
00:22:10.880 But you can't put rules
00:22:11.880 in place that say
00:22:12.560 if you don't have a plant
00:22:14.320 up and running
00:22:14.960 by 2030 or whatever
00:22:16.700 the number, 2028,
00:22:18.240 then it can't run
00:22:19.400 for more than five years
00:22:20.520 or it has to be shut down.
00:22:21.720 Like, there's a new clause
00:22:22.880 in that that basically
00:22:23.800 developers are saying,
00:22:25.020 no, no,
00:22:25.240 I need a 20-year runway here.
00:22:27.140 So you can't do that.
00:22:28.960 So policy is causing a problem.
00:22:30.680 And then the reality,
00:22:32.700 people, generally,
00:22:33.640 people are starting now
00:22:34.840 with the affordability issue
00:22:35.800 all of a sudden.
00:22:36.840 Wow, this is kind of a bite.
00:22:39.700 And your point about the break
00:22:43.200 on the, it said,
00:22:44.580 well, polls trump climate change.
00:22:46.720 Didn't it?
00:22:47.140 Really, that's what it said.
00:22:48.320 The big message is that,
00:22:49.680 oh, if you can do it
00:22:50.160 in the eastern Canada,
00:22:50.820 why can't we do it elsewhere?
00:22:52.180 But I think the bigger message is,
00:22:54.040 why can't we do something better?
00:22:55.840 And that is the challenge.
00:22:57.300 And the prime minister
00:22:58.040 is in this ideological frame of mind
00:23:00.260 that better just doesn't register.
00:23:03.140 And so I keep pushing
00:23:05.480 that give us the ability
00:23:06.940 and be part of the solution
00:23:08.420 to help promote
00:23:09.220 the right legislation.
00:23:10.580 But also,
00:23:11.240 then that gives the First Nations
00:23:12.980 more of an understanding of,
00:23:15.700 okay, I can be part of this now.
00:23:17.660 Because obviously,
00:23:19.240 to do a development
00:23:20.060 like we want to do in New Brunswick,
00:23:21.560 we need First Nations
00:23:22.520 to be part of that.
00:23:23.380 And they will be major,
00:23:25.820 major benefactors of that.
00:23:29.120 And so I'm excited about that.
00:23:30.840 And we're working through that with them.
00:23:32.380 But again,
00:23:32.820 it requires policy that says it's okay.
00:23:34.860 So what relationship
00:23:37.220 would you like to see?
00:23:39.160 Because,
00:23:39.760 and I'm going to be speaking
00:23:40.880 with Premier Smith tomorrow,
00:23:42.140 and I think Alberta has generally,
00:23:43.900 as a matter of survival,
00:23:45.500 had to be a lot more forceful
00:23:46.740 against Ottawa
00:23:47.340 for much of the last several decades.
00:23:49.880 But when you look at
00:23:51.220 that relationship
00:23:51.880 that you would like to see,
00:23:53.240 the one that you have now,
00:23:54.220 the one that possibly
00:23:55.320 Pierre Polyev,
00:23:56.200 assuming he's elected,
00:23:57.260 would be able to provide
00:23:58.180 you as a premier
00:23:59.260 and assuming you win
00:24:00.540 your re-election,
00:24:01.300 what should that look like?
00:24:03.360 Well, I've always been
00:24:04.960 a strong federalist
00:24:05.800 for good reason.
00:24:08.080 Not only the national pride
00:24:09.360 of our nation,
00:24:09.900 but also because,
00:24:11.020 and I also believe
00:24:11.920 that Alberta
00:24:12.900 and Saskatchewan,
00:24:14.640 but Alberta particularly
00:24:15.360 has been paying the bills
00:24:16.200 for a long time
00:24:16.820 in this nation.
00:24:17.480 I think they would agree as well.
00:24:19.060 And I know several years ago
00:24:22.440 as a, you know,
00:24:23.920 a mayor timer
00:24:24.440 that you all know,
00:24:26.100 we were a recipient
00:24:28.380 of transfer funds
00:24:29.140 at about 30%
00:24:30.140 of our budget.
00:24:31.160 But, you know,
00:24:31.680 I'm not proud of that.
00:24:33.460 I'm honored to be part of it
00:24:34.860 because it makes
00:24:35.580 the lifestyle
00:24:36.020 in our province equitable
00:24:37.080 with other parts
00:24:37.800 of the country.
00:24:38.820 But this project
00:24:39.760 that I'm talking about
00:24:40.580 to develop,
00:24:41.540 I've always said,
00:24:42.420 and I've said it
00:24:42.860 for many years
00:24:43.620 and nationally
00:24:44.380 and when I'm in the meetings
00:24:45.460 with my colleagues,
00:24:46.680 I don't believe
00:24:47.680 that we should be
00:24:48.820 in a position
00:24:49.640 not developing resources
00:24:51.560 that we have,
00:24:52.660 which are the very ones
00:24:53.620 that we're relying on
00:24:54.500 from Alberta
00:24:55.980 to pay the bills.
00:24:57.280 I just don't think
00:24:58.020 that's fair.
00:25:00.000 I actually think
00:25:01.060 they moved Danielle Smith
00:25:02.720 to tomorrow
00:25:03.220 because they were worried
00:25:03.840 if you were here
00:25:04.240 the same day
00:25:04.720 she would ask
00:25:05.140 for the money back.
00:25:06.200 I think that might have been
00:25:06.960 the risk there.
00:25:08.760 But as we talk
00:25:11.080 about the road forward,
00:25:12.200 I know you and Premier Smith
00:25:13.220 have actually had
00:25:13.800 quite a good relationship
00:25:14.940 and for a lot of reasons
00:25:16.960 you've had a common foe
00:25:18.320 in the federal government
00:25:19.280 in Ottawa.
00:25:20.200 I wanted to ask
00:25:21.060 about a policy
00:25:21.860 that you're championing
00:25:22.840 in New Brunswick
00:25:24.260 that is coming up
00:25:25.460 that I know Alberta
00:25:26.800 has done as well
00:25:27.800 and is also one
00:25:28.440 of these issues
00:25:28.960 that I think
00:25:29.340 is becoming
00:25:29.900 one where there's
00:25:32.020 a fair bit
00:25:32.380 of national momentum
00:25:33.260 and I don't know
00:25:33.960 how much is public
00:25:34.660 so I think you know
00:25:35.480 what I'm talking about though
00:25:36.320 so I'll just give you
00:25:37.020 the floor on this.
00:25:38.340 Well, and it's our
00:25:39.180 Compassionate Care
00:25:40.000 Intervention Bill
00:25:40.700 that we plan to bring forward
00:25:41.840 in the legislature
00:25:42.560 in May
00:25:43.040 and it is a tough one
00:25:46.200 because we've had
00:25:47.600 some very significant
00:25:48.720 incidents on the homeless
00:25:50.420 side in our province
00:25:52.040 over the last few months.
00:25:53.580 We've had, you know,
00:25:55.200 homeless individuals
00:25:55.900 that have lost
00:25:56.620 and had to amputate
00:25:57.280 their legs
00:25:57.620 because they've frozen.
00:25:59.860 We've had two deaths
00:26:01.280 here recently
00:26:01.840 back about maybe
00:26:02.920 two or three weeks ago
00:26:04.200 that basically
00:26:05.480 were tent fires
00:26:06.220 and people trying
00:26:07.960 to keep warm
00:26:08.540 and I called
00:26:10.320 the daughter
00:26:11.080 of one of the victims
00:26:14.520 that died in the fire
00:26:15.520 and about a week
00:26:17.460 after or less
00:26:18.180 and I knew
00:26:19.240 that he would certainly
00:26:21.140 be upset
00:26:21.980 for good, good reason
00:26:23.040 but of course
00:26:24.340 it's all kind of
00:26:25.720 things we could do
00:26:27.580 better as government
00:26:28.200 and I don't deny
00:26:29.040 any of that
00:26:29.520 because we shouldn't
00:26:30.640 have the situation
00:26:31.340 but I'd made a statement
00:26:33.320 about how do we convince
00:26:34.580 people to come off
00:26:35.900 the street
00:26:36.340 when you know
00:26:37.540 they're not capable
00:26:38.440 of making the decision
00:26:39.660 on their own,
00:26:40.540 you know their life's
00:26:41.540 at risk
00:26:42.020 and how do you find
00:26:44.040 a path to say
00:26:45.040 wow, safety
00:26:46.320 has got to play
00:26:47.100 a role here
00:26:47.620 and of course
00:26:49.940 the question is
00:26:51.740 well we can't do that
00:26:52.780 if they don't want
00:26:53.720 to come
00:26:53.980 they don't want to come
00:26:54.680 so where does
00:26:56.220 our humanity kick in
00:26:57.400 and you say
00:26:57.940 I know that individual
00:26:59.280 won't be alive
00:26:59.900 in the morning
00:27:00.360 so what we're trying
00:27:02.380 to say
00:27:02.720 there are extreme cases
00:27:03.740 that we can analyze
00:27:05.220 and find a solution
00:27:08.160 so a person
00:27:08.780 does not suffer
00:27:09.900 the life changing
00:27:11.420 issues that they suffer
00:27:12.840 from being exposed
00:27:13.520 to the elements
00:27:14.120 and then of course
00:27:15.460 it's the whole concept
00:27:16.600 about
00:27:17.000 how do we find
00:27:18.860 a path
00:27:19.280 out of drugs
00:27:19.940 and addiction
00:27:20.340 I am not a supporter
00:27:22.040 of continued drug
00:27:24.760 being on a program
00:27:27.080 that continues
00:27:27.900 to keep a person
00:27:29.380 addicted to drugs
00:27:30.580 I believe in recovery
00:27:31.860 You obviously
00:27:36.720 could not be
00:27:37.700 geographically further
00:27:38.920 from British Columbia
00:27:40.160 I would argue
00:27:40.900 politically further
00:27:41.600 from British Columbia
00:27:42.300 too
00:27:42.600 but do you look
00:27:44.400 at British Columbia
00:27:45.200 and see
00:27:46.260 a very useful model
00:27:48.140 for everything
00:27:48.760 to do the opposite of
00:27:49.900 you know
00:27:51.180 it's funny you say that
00:27:52.400 because that's exactly
00:27:53.880 what I was going to say
00:27:54.700 they have been a perfect
00:27:56.920 example of what not to do
00:27:58.360 and so
00:28:00.760 why do we pretend otherwise
00:28:04.380 and I've had
00:28:05.700 just this week
00:28:07.120 met with several people
00:28:08.080 that are serving
00:28:08.980 the homeless
00:28:10.720 in the Fredericton area
00:28:11.740 and we talked about
00:28:13.400 and we talked about
00:28:13.420 some of the challenges
00:28:14.040 but for me
00:28:14.660 it's like
00:28:15.020 how do people get here
00:28:16.340 and how do we find a way
00:28:18.320 that we can find them out
00:28:20.540 how do we find a way
00:28:21.560 to help them return
00:28:23.120 to a normal life
00:28:23.960 and what is normal
00:28:25.100 could be very different
00:28:25.840 for different people
00:28:26.580 but the interesting part
00:28:28.780 came back to
00:28:29.440 well if someone
00:28:30.040 doesn't want to go
00:28:30.800 you know
00:28:31.520 they can't give them help
00:28:32.360 and I ask the question
00:28:33.560 because we're looking
00:28:34.240 at a mental health
00:28:36.540 and addiction treatment center
00:28:37.420 because along with addiction
00:28:38.520 the mental health
00:28:39.080 plays a big role
00:28:39.780 and we're working
00:28:41.720 to develop that
00:28:42.600 and we have a building
00:28:43.340 and such
00:28:43.700 but the point
00:28:46.040 that they were raising
00:28:47.040 well if someone
00:28:48.000 wants to go
00:28:48.800 to be treated
00:28:49.580 they've got to
00:28:50.220 have a place to go
00:28:51.220 immediately
00:28:51.540 as soon as they say
00:28:52.260 okay I'm ready
00:28:52.820 they've got a place to go
00:28:53.940 so I said okay
00:28:54.980 so that's Friday night
00:28:56.020 what if they say
00:28:57.460 Saturday night
00:28:58.140 or Sunday night
00:28:59.040 or Monday morning
00:28:59.820 no I don't think
00:29:00.740 this is for me
00:29:01.320 I don't think
00:29:01.860 I want to stay here
00:29:02.560 what do you do then
00:29:03.320 well you have to
00:29:04.120 let them go
00:29:04.760 well I said
00:29:05.660 how many cycles
00:29:06.340 do you get into for that
00:29:07.280 because you just keep
00:29:08.560 going around
00:29:09.060 and around
00:29:09.580 so it is
00:29:11.260 one of those tough
00:29:11.860 discussions
00:29:12.340 but we know
00:29:13.200 homeless situations
00:29:14.220 are increasing
00:29:14.780 we know New Brunswick
00:29:15.500 affordability has played
00:29:16.340 a role
00:29:16.640 we've had an increase
00:29:17.940 in population
00:29:18.500 like we haven't seen
00:29:19.200 for a hundred years
00:29:20.020 and property values
00:29:22.220 have gone up
00:29:22.820 nothing like we'd have
00:29:24.640 here in Ontario
00:29:25.340 mind you
00:29:25.680 just for anyone
00:29:26.180 who wants to move
00:29:26.680 to New Brunswick
00:29:27.140 but the idea
00:29:30.540 is that it's a case
00:29:32.020 where people
00:29:32.640 generally have seen
00:29:33.520 a step change
00:29:34.140 in their ability
00:29:34.820 to afford
00:29:35.560 where they were
00:29:36.120 so we need to not
00:29:37.520 lose sight of them
00:29:38.440 and have them
00:29:39.640 be exposed
00:29:40.300 to the situation
00:29:41.440 that we don't want
00:29:42.080 them to live
00:29:42.520 and become accustomed
00:29:43.120 to
00:29:43.340 and so we have
00:29:44.600 to react quicker
00:29:45.200 we have all kinds
00:29:46.320 of social assistance
00:29:47.840 case workers
00:29:48.900 and when I said
00:29:50.140 ask the question
00:29:51.320 okay so what
00:29:52.900 relationship
00:29:53.600 do our case workers
00:29:54.540 have with the
00:29:55.260 individuals on the street
00:29:56.120 how often do you see them
00:29:58.120 and one of the answers
00:29:59.680 I got
00:30:00.040 well monthly
00:30:00.660 monthly
00:30:02.500 yeah when I'm
00:30:03.800 handing out the check
00:30:04.520 that's not
00:30:07.120 that's not servicing
00:30:08.420 the needs
00:30:08.940 of the people
00:30:09.420 with the people
00:30:10.400 we have in the system
00:30:11.180 I would like it noted
00:30:13.280 he ended
00:30:13.880 as the timer
00:30:14.700 hit five seconds
00:30:15.700 you would have
00:30:16.140 a great career
00:30:16.660 in radio
00:30:17.160 premier
00:30:17.560 if the next election
00:30:18.980 doesn't work out well
00:30:19.840 you'd get out
00:30:20.380 in time for news
00:30:21.500 and traffic
00:30:21.980 well premier
00:30:23.100 Blaine Higgs
00:30:23.860 you have put
00:30:24.980 New Brunswick
00:30:25.600 Conservatives
00:30:26.120 on the map
00:30:26.540 for a lot of people
00:30:27.180 across the country
00:30:28.060 and I know
00:30:28.380 it's been a pleasure
00:30:29.620 I suspect
00:30:30.260 for everyone in the room
00:30:31.100 it's certainly
00:30:31.880 been a pleasure
00:30:32.300 for me
00:30:32.600 so thank you
00:30:33.020 very much
00:30:33.440 thank you
00:30:34.140 thanks for listening
00:30:35.680 to the Andrew Lawton Show
00:30:36.900 support the program
00:30:38.200 by donating to True North
00:30:39.440 at www.tnc.news