Juno News - Blaine Higgs on parental rights, gender identity, and being labelled “far right”

00:00:00.000 All my life I've wondered how to get a standing ovation, and apparently it's to walk on stage

00:00:14.180 with Premier Higgs, so thank you for letting me bask in that.

00:00:17.980 And thank you to everyone for being here this morning.

00:00:21.120 I love the format of the fireside chat, mainly because it's Ottawa and you need to be by

00:00:25.880 the side of a fire to survive for nine of the 12 months of the year.

00:00:28.760 But also we get the chance, especially in front of an audience like this, to delve into

00:00:32.940 some of the issues that I don't think you get on your average CBC panel.

00:00:37.880 And that doesn't mean we're going to give you a totally easy ride on this, Premier, but

00:00:41.540 I do want to give you the chance to talk about issues that I know matter to people in this

00:00:44.900 room and those watching from beyond.

00:00:47.260 And normally you try to warm up to the controversial stuff, but I feel like you can take the controversial

00:00:51.940 stuff because you've been quite a leader on this issue.

00:00:54.580 So let's start with transgender issues and parental rights.

00:00:58.760 Because start there and then we'll see how it goes, because this is an issue that we

00:01:08.000 understand why other Premiers have taken actions they've taken in the last few months on this.

00:01:12.660 In a lot of cases, it was because you had and they had their own supporters pushing them

00:01:16.840 to do very similar things.

00:01:18.760 You were the first one.

00:01:19.820 So let me just ask you, when you put that policy forward that required parental consent

00:01:24.920 for gender changes, for re-identifications at school, why did you go there?

00:01:31.000 Well, thank you for the question, Andrew.

00:01:32.620 I guess the point was that we, throughout this whole duration of being in politics, I came

00:01:38.140 at a time when I already had a career.

00:01:40.020 And I wanted to bring a lot of ideas that I learned and decision processes that I learned,

00:01:45.040 but also on the foundational principle that, you know, you do what's right and the rest

00:01:48.640 will fall in place.

00:01:49.820 Now that doesn't always work in politics, it seems, but nevertheless, that's the philosophy

00:01:53.300 we live by.

00:01:54.580 And through this whole discussion, it became a policy that kind of got into our educational

00:01:59.440 system without a whole lot of discussion or detailed discussion with our caucus.

00:02:03.920 And after the election of 2020, and then a little while after, we started, I started

00:02:09.340 asking questions about it in detail.

00:02:11.260 And then when I read the paragraph that basically caused teachers to hide information from parents

00:02:16.560 and to do so as part of the request of the policy, I, you know, this just wasn't right.

00:02:23.040 This isn't the foundation of families that we build on.

00:02:27.120 And it was interesting, my wife and I talked about this prior to making it an issue.

00:02:31.520 And by the way, we've been married, I believe, 46 years this summer, and four daughters, five

00:02:38.600 grandchildren are very close to our family.

00:02:42.000 And the idea that we would hide information, we thought, what would we, how would we like

00:02:46.660 that if that happened?

00:02:48.380 So then we started bringing it as a question.

00:02:50.620 And then we saw some of the curriculum that was being taught on a parent or a school day,

00:02:55.440 a school teacher's day.

00:02:57.320 And you'd say, or a professional development day is what it's called.

00:03:00.400 So anyway, you'd see, you'd see, wow, where's the curriculum here that involves math and

00:03:05.100 science and literacy and numeracy?

00:03:07.620 Where's that in all this?

00:03:09.860 So the challenge was, how do you have the debate on a sensitive issue, recognizing the

00:03:15.900 reality of it all, but finding a path to do it?

00:03:18.920 And I think that we have walked away from too many controversial issues, and that is why

00:03:23.840 we've seen kind of an erosion of what we might have always considered standard.

00:03:28.540 It becomes normalized.

00:03:29.920 And it's not because it's normal, it's normal, it's different.

00:03:33.520 And we are a society that absolutely recognizes and supports all of our differences.

00:03:39.980 But let's not exclude family as part of that process.

00:03:42.420 It was an issue that, for someone like me who doesn't follow New Brunswick politics explicitly,

00:03:51.660 and I'd say probably has done so a little bit more thanks to you and stuff you've been

00:03:55.120 doing there, it was not something that was really accurately defined by the media, what

00:04:01.460 you did.

00:04:02.020 I think before I read the actual...

00:04:03.420 Yeah, it is.

00:04:04.940 Well, as we heard from the last panel, it's okay.

00:04:07.380 They should have just been watching, reading The Line and other outlets like that.

00:04:10.940 But you were doing something that was a relatively moderate proposal.

00:04:16.860 And even a lot of people that are in the parental rights space that have been advocating for something

00:04:21.100 similar were saying, well, it's a compromise, he's not going far enough, it's a good start.

00:04:26.660 But you were, to the activists that were against you, it was as though you had gone so far,

00:04:32.160 you had done something so radical, you had done something so far-right is the term.

00:04:35.800 I mean, did you ever imagine that you would be labeled as far-right when you were elected

00:04:39.520 as premier, you know, going back to 2013?

00:04:42.580 And why is this issue one that has been maligned in that way?

00:04:46.580 Well, just recently I was asked about a case of the far-right, and isn't it amazing that

00:04:51.780 in today's world, far-right is having parents involved with their kids?

00:04:55.960 Isn't that amazing?

00:04:57.440 So I say that tells you how far the spectrum has actually moved and how we need to find a

00:05:01.440 path forward.

00:05:02.480 But in analyzing kind of what we wanted to bring forward is let's address this.

00:05:07.120 And then looking abroad, looking at what's going on in Europe, particularly what's going

00:05:10.140 on in Europe, about how they manage real issues around gender dysphoria, but how they look

00:05:14.800 at it as, you know, getting the right process for treatment and through psychologists, psychiatrists

00:05:19.440 to understand, okay, how do we manage this?

00:05:21.340 Because in some cases it's very real, but in other cases it's a process of kids growing

00:05:25.960 up, and that's where parents are that one continuum in their life.

00:05:30.540 And so we just say, okay, we want parents to be involved.

00:05:33.640 And no, I didn't imagine it would be such a controversial issue because it seems like

00:05:38.860 such a basic, fundamental principle that we all cherish.

00:05:43.320 One of the things that I find interesting, though, is that there are a lot of issues that tend

00:05:50.620 to be within the domain of what we would call social conservatives.

00:05:53.760 And these issues tend to get treated as political third rails.

00:05:57.300 You can't talk about this.

00:05:58.300 You can't talk about that.

00:05:59.740 This is an issue that I think is very much in a line with where a lot of social conservatives

00:06:04.100 wanted to take society.

00:06:05.260 But it seems to have a broader appeal.

00:06:07.780 I mean, the number of folks that I've spoken to that have supported what you've done in New

00:06:11.180 Brunswick, or what Premier Danielle Smith has done in Alberta, that would not identify

00:06:15.700 as pro-life, would not identify as anti-gay marriage.

00:06:20.360 But on this issue, they're there.

00:06:22.800 What do you make of that?

00:06:23.640 I mean, how has there been a coalition that does seem to be very large, not just within

00:06:28.180 the conservative movement, but even within society itself, behind some of these policies?

00:06:33.480 I think the risk we're facing in Canada, and the risk that we see in the U.S., is we've

00:06:41.020 drifted so far from what people look at as common sense, and to how to manage the next steps.

00:06:47.200 And we've drifted ideologically so far that all of a sudden people kind of say, whoa,

00:06:53.020 this has to be addressed.

00:06:55.360 So I think what we're seeing is, okay, here's something that's so basic, so fundamental,

00:06:59.120 and yet it's an issue.

00:07:00.640 But it will cause us, I think, to all be part of the solution.

00:07:05.160 And when I think that we put teachers in a position to not be truthful with the child's

00:07:09.820 parents, why aren't teachers speaking up and saying, you know, we need to be part of

00:07:14.440 this?

00:07:15.100 And when we talk about, okay, this can be irreparable surgeries that could happen to

00:07:21.520 young children, why aren't doctors speaking up and saying, okay, we believe we need to

00:07:26.360 manage this, we need this, how it needs to be done?

00:07:28.140 I refer to the European model now that Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the U.K. have all changed

00:07:34.740 their policies to look at a different way to deal with the problem.

00:07:38.220 Always recognize there's a problem, and always recognizing there's a way to protect every

00:07:42.580 individual in their beliefs and how we manage through that.

00:07:46.860 But not just ignoring the reality of what makes sense and what's real.

00:07:52.400 So I think that's the purpose for me, is that we need to find the moderate approach here.

00:07:58.820 And sometimes the definition, because you saw what happened in New Brunswick, so we are

00:08:04.360 a progressive conservative party, but people jump on one side or the other wholeheartedly

00:08:08.460 without trying to find the balance in the middle.

00:08:11.000 And that's what we're trying to find.

00:08:12.480 And sometimes it creates a bit of a firestorm.

00:08:14.960 My wife will often say when I come home at night, what fire did you start today?

00:08:19.140 And she said, I was reading the news.

00:08:20.820 And I said, that's your first problem, you shouldn't do that.

00:08:23.820 As long as it's true north, we'll forgive her. 0.98

00:08:25.800 All right, fair enough.

00:08:26.780 There's one, good for you.

00:08:27.820 Let me ask you, before we get on to that definitional problem, which I think is tremendously important,

00:08:32.120 did you anticipate that you were starting something that would become a pretty national wave?

00:08:37.860 And I'm curious if you had other conversations with premiers on either way that say,

00:08:42.300 hey, thank you for breaking the seal on this so we can, or what the hell are you doing?

00:08:46.120 Do you realize what my caucus expects me to do now?

00:08:48.280 Well, yes, we certainly have talked amongst colleagues.

00:08:53.800 And certainly, you know, I had discussions with many, many, and many have different views.

00:08:59.900 And that's what we are in Canada.

00:09:01.720 But I certainly look at what Saskatchewan is doing and what Daniel Smith is doing in Alberta.

00:09:10.320 And I guess I'd like to think that at the end of the day, we'll find a solution that doesn't seem to be far right.

00:09:17.740 It just seems to be really right.

00:09:20.420 And I mean by that, it's such a correct path forward.

00:09:24.280 And so in those discussions, and did I think it would turn into a national thing?

00:09:28.100 No, that wasn't a discussion.

00:09:29.060 When my wife and I talked about this, and I said, you know, this is going to be the week, we're going to talk about this.

00:09:34.520 We both realized this could be the issue that either continues us in government or takes us out.

00:09:43.640 But we were both prepared to say, fair enough.

00:09:46.200 And so, and I think there lies the whole challenge that we have as a society, as politicians, as members of any profession,

00:09:58.460 which I just stated with health care and with education, is to say, I will do what I believe is correct.

00:10:06.240 I will voice my opinion in a very respectful, mannerful way to improve what I believe needs to be improved.

00:10:13.020 And it doesn't have to be protests and blowing horns and jumping on the street,

00:10:17.160 but it has very adult discussions that say, I'm not afraid to talk about it.

00:10:21.440 Let's talk about that progressive conservative name, because that's always been to many people an inherent contradiction.

00:10:28.700 And you have some people in the conservative family in this country that say, no, I'm a proud progressive conservative,

00:10:34.220 and that means something very specific to them.

00:10:36.400 You have others that just sort of tolerate it, because that's the name of the party.

00:10:39.280 And we also don't have, in Canada, the harmonization of the federal and provincial right-leaning parties,

00:10:45.460 which is why you have this patchwork from B.C., where you now have two warring parties that are going for right-of-center votes,

00:10:51.980 and you have, in Alberta, a complete unique situation there.

00:10:55.580 I'm curious how that, I was just trying to gloss over that, but I heard a laugh,

00:10:59.000 that was apparently a laugh line for someone from Alberta.

00:11:01.200 But I'm curious about your perspective on that in New Brunswick,

00:11:04.660 because you're a progressive conservative premier, and I think that a lot of people would say

00:11:08.140 that you are putting forward very ironclad, small-c conservative principles,

00:11:12.280 with no need for a qualifier there.

00:11:14.540 But how does that affect your navigation of that coalition that you have in New Brunswick,

00:11:19.140 and also how New Brunswick fits into the Canadian conservative family?

00:11:23.360 Well, it adds in kind of a new dimension of, I won't say confusion,

00:11:28.120 but certainly an irony there that exists with the two, with the progressive conservative,

00:11:32.760 because some people will grab ahold of the progressive piece,

00:11:35.120 and some people will grab ahold of the conservative piece,

00:11:37.580 and then you have to kind of bridge that within caucus.

00:11:40.460 And as you know, back last June, I didn't bridge that very successfully,

00:11:44.400 because I had six members of caucus that basically stood against the government

00:11:48.540 and voted against the government.

00:11:50.720 So it does bring an issue.

00:11:54.020 But I think at the same time, it's how do you have the discussions,

00:11:59.380 and coming from a business world, and I know people say,

00:12:02.500 well, you know, sometimes you just move along too fast.

00:12:05.600 I'll have a lot of meetings, a lot of debate, a lot of discussions,

00:12:08.760 and there comes a point in time where you've just got to get on with it.

00:12:11.680 And so we got on with it last June, after numerous meetings in caucus and such,

00:12:16.640 but there were six individuals, maybe eight, that were not happy with that.

00:12:22.880 And it causes angst.

00:12:24.720 So you can see the political upheaval that kind of creates.

00:12:29.460 And we were joking here, coming in, talking about,

00:12:33.180 because I did in the State of the Province,

00:12:35.800 people didn't know if I was going to run again,

00:12:38.020 and I put a song at the end of it, an old clash song that said,

00:12:41.080 should I stay or should I go?

00:12:43.220 And I kind of danced off the stage.

00:12:45.500 But this time, when we did the State of the Province,

00:12:48.360 there's a lot of great things to talk about in the province,

00:12:50.160 and I was thinking my song should be the Elton John one,

00:12:53.900 that I'm still standing.

00:12:56.880 But I was recommended against that.

00:12:59.520 Well, Premier Higgs is leading karaoke in the Shore Club

00:13:02.220 downstairs at 10 o'clock Eastern time.

00:13:05.480 But I'll ask you on that, Premier.

00:13:07.520 When you mention those six members that left your caucus,

00:13:10.780 do you view that as being, if I could just use a blunt word,

00:13:15.120 a failure of your leadership to keep your party together?

00:13:17.540 Or do you believe that the coalition was too broad

00:13:20.020 and those people really didn't belong in your party in the first place?

00:13:24.640 No, it's a challenge that I, you know, probably,

00:13:28.380 if my interest was how do I survive the next election,

00:13:31.420 then I probably would have found a different way

00:13:35.020 to try to manage through it,

00:13:36.160 but I wouldn't have had the same result.

00:13:37.340 And that, I think, is what happens to many of us

00:13:41.020 as we get watered down in our own beliefs

00:13:43.660 because we're trying to appease the masses.

00:13:47.800 We had diverse opinions, but that goes two ways.

00:13:50.460 It goes two ways that, okay,

00:13:51.960 if I have 80% of caucus that are on side and want to move forward,

00:13:55.380 and I have 20% that don't,

00:13:57.160 it's rare if ever you get a consensus within caucus of unity.

00:14:00.340 It just doesn't happen, or extremely rare.

00:14:04.640 So the point that, okay, we have the majority of caucus,

00:14:07.780 we're ready to move on this,

00:14:09.500 and the Minister of Education, he and I, we're ready to move.

00:14:12.520 We've presented, we've talked.

00:14:13.960 It was time.

00:14:15.360 So, yeah, we could have talked about it a lot longer,

00:14:18.440 but I didn't see an end in sight.

00:14:20.740 It was going to be, we were never going to convince some,

00:14:24.200 all the while we had full support of, as I say, 80% of the caucus.

00:14:29.100 But let me extend that thought to its logical conclusion here

00:14:32.660 because if it sounds like, I'm going to do one of those,

00:14:34.760 it sounds like you're saying things,

00:14:36.640 like Kathy Newman and Jordan Peterson,

00:14:38.460 but I'm going to try to actually represent what you're saying,

00:14:40.980 or at least as I understand it,

00:14:42.560 that there's a risk for conservative parties

00:14:44.620 of trying to be too many things to too many people,

00:14:47.380 and that this big tent,

00:14:48.780 which is often viewed as a feature of the conservative movement,

00:14:51.520 actually carries its own cohesion challenges.

00:14:54.200 Oh, it does.

00:14:55.200 Absolutely does.

00:14:56.300 And what you're seeing is, I mean, we see the Liberal Party.

00:14:59.040 I mean, if you want to talk about far left,

00:15:00.820 I mean, how far can you get?

00:15:03.880 And this isn't a political...

00:15:04.820 Don't challenge them.

00:15:05.760 They'll find a way.

00:15:07.140 This is not a political discussion, though, is it?

00:15:08.620 I agree.

00:15:09.860 But the idea, and you see, to your point,

00:15:12.580 you raised earlier, that that's where the spectrum is going,

00:15:14.800 and everybody, everybody is taking,

00:15:16.360 oh, well, I'm way over here on the left side.

00:15:19.040 And I think that is our job as conservatives

00:15:21.680 to find the way to have the detailed discussions

00:15:26.680 and the frank discussions.

00:15:27.940 And I'm saying that what I'm excited about,

00:15:30.180 and he'll be here a little later, Pierre Polyev,

00:15:32.760 what I've seen from the rallies he's had in New Brunswick

00:15:35.320 and the people that are showing up,

00:15:36.900 we went to a rally,

00:15:37.700 the average age was probably 35,000, 1,200 people.

00:15:41.080 I think that's just wonderful

00:15:42.360 to see young people coming into our party

00:15:45.040 and getting involved.

00:15:48.920 Since you mentioned Pierre Polyev,

00:15:51.280 who will be here at 11.30 and not right now,

00:15:53.880 as some people were disappointed to see me on stage,

00:15:56.640 but he has been touring the country on his...

00:16:00.480 It started as the Axe the Tax rally,

00:16:02.180 and now it's the Spike the Hike rally,

00:16:03.620 and I think there's going to be another rhyme next week.

00:16:05.260 But the galvanizing issue

00:16:07.580 for the federal conservatives right now

00:16:09.100 has been opposing the carbon tax,

00:16:11.160 and this has been an issue certainly in your province as well.

00:16:14.780 We've seen provinces sue the federal government.

00:16:17.180 We've seen the Supreme Court side against provinces on this.

00:16:20.160 And then I think for the most part,

00:16:21.560 the federal government's carbon tax was pretty safe

00:16:23.620 until they decided that Atlantic Canadians

00:16:26.300 with home heating oil needed a bit of a carve-out,

00:16:28.440 and then it sort of undermined their whole premise here.

00:16:31.400 And I'm curious for you,

00:16:33.280 first off, how much of an issue is that electorally speaking,

00:16:36.760 as you gear up for an election for people in New Brunswick,

00:16:39.360 this carbon tax,

00:16:40.640 but also how do you anticipate this going

00:16:44.840 when you have a federal government

00:16:46.120 that right now doesn't even want to meet

00:16:48.340 with premiers on this issue,

00:16:50.140 which is...

00:16:50.500 I mean, Justin Trudeau loves talking,

00:16:52.220 and he loves people having to hear him talk,

00:16:54.200 but this is like one opportunity

00:16:56.040 to sit down that he doesn't want to take

00:16:58.360 because he doesn't want to hear

00:16:59.200 what the premiers, like you, have to tell him.

00:17:01.860 Well, it's disappointing, but you get used to it.

00:17:04.820 So sometimes you don't bother, but we are bothering.

00:17:09.260 So there was a question asked that,

00:17:11.560 oh, well, if other provinces have a solution,

00:17:13.180 then let us know.

00:17:14.700 So the idea for us in New Brunswick,

00:17:17.580 and worldwide, really,

00:17:19.020 is for Canada to punch well above its weight

00:17:21.560 in terms of reducing world emissions.

00:17:23.760 We can talk about our 1.8% of world emissions,

00:17:26.380 and we can cause everybody

00:17:27.400 in every household across this country

00:17:29.180 to spend more and have less and do less.

00:17:32.980 Or we can say we've always been a nation

00:17:35.220 that's rich in energy.

00:17:36.840 It has given us the lifestyle we have,

00:17:39.200 but it's also given us the ability to help others.

00:17:41.620 So isn't it sad?

00:17:42.600 When I was in Europe a few years ago,

00:17:44.720 spring talking to different people

00:17:46.140 that was after the invasion in Ukraine,

00:17:50.080 and they're saying all through this,

00:17:51.680 we're absolutely shocked

00:17:52.680 that a country as rich as Canada

00:17:55.900 is not supplying any energy to Europe

00:17:58.980 to offset Russian oil and gas.

00:18:01.700 Absolutely shocked.

00:18:03.640 So when you think about that for a minute,

00:18:06.420 we've spent how many millions or billions

00:18:08.380 to help Ukraine?

00:18:09.900 So on the one hand,

00:18:10.860 we supply arms to the war,

00:18:13.480 which we're not regurging.

00:18:14.680 We wanted to do that.

00:18:16.400 But then on the other hand,

00:18:17.560 we're forcing them to buy Russian oil and gas

00:18:21.360 and finance from the other side.

00:18:23.120 So then you look at what can we do about that

00:18:25.380 in addition to supplying what we have here.

00:18:28.180 On the world emissions side,

00:18:29.340 we in New Brunswick,

00:18:30.060 we have 77 trillion standard cubic feet

00:18:32.340 of natural gas sitting,

00:18:34.100 waiting to be developed.

00:18:35.480 Out west, this is happening.

00:18:37.100 We have an LNG plant

00:18:38.220 that is waiting to be converted

00:18:40.220 to an export facility.

00:18:41.860 It is an import built back 15 years ago.

00:18:44.680 So we have supply.

00:18:46.380 We have market.

00:18:47.240 We have four countries,

00:18:48.500 right without even asking,

00:18:49.640 saying we'll sign up for a 20-year deal.

00:18:52.000 We have 174 coal plants in Europe.

00:18:55.440 We have China building coal plants

00:18:57.140 at the rate of two a week,

00:18:58.660 100 a year.

00:18:59.840 They operate 1,100 coal plants.

00:19:02.260 For every coal plant that's shut down

00:19:03.860 by natural gas,

00:19:04.760 we reduce emissions by 50%.

00:19:06.280 So you say,

00:19:07.800 wow, we have an opportunity

00:19:08.860 right here in New Brunswick

00:19:09.780 to shut down coal plants.

00:19:11.940 Total Energy,

00:19:12.800 a major,

00:19:13.400 one of the world's largest energy companies,

00:19:15.740 said one of their key pillars,

00:19:18.440 of their four pillars,

00:19:19.680 is to develop as much natural gas

00:19:21.280 worldwide as they can

00:19:22.320 and shut down as many coal plants

00:19:23.760 as they can

00:19:24.260 because it'll have a bigger impact,

00:19:26.200 quicker impact

00:19:26.840 than anything else that is happening.

00:19:28.960 And at the same time,

00:19:30.500 the affordability issue in our country

00:19:32.060 goes away or diminishes greatly

00:19:34.040 because we'll use those same resources

00:19:36.040 to fund technology,

00:19:37.200 research, development.

00:19:38.320 And when do people start using

00:19:39.600 and acting differently?

00:19:41.000 You know, I think years ago

00:19:41.920 about the film industry

00:19:42.820 when digital photography come along,

00:19:45.100 where would you find a film camera now?

00:19:47.300 And the same thing with the LED lights?

00:19:49.120 Well, now you just look for LED lights

00:19:50.640 because of their brightness

00:19:52.180 and their energy consumption.

00:19:53.720 When we have the ability

00:19:54.920 to have that sort of technological advancement,

00:19:57.040 people will change their ambits.

00:19:59.080 We'll be able to meet the requirements

00:20:00.660 which we cannot meet today

00:20:02.020 from the federal policies.

00:20:03.760 We are putting forward a policy

00:20:05.420 to the, and I actually have it

00:20:07.600 coincidentally here with me,

00:20:09.020 and it's called No Tax Required,

00:20:13.020 Just Support Us Developing Gas

00:20:15.520 and Shutting Down Coal Plants

00:20:16.560 in the Process.

00:20:17.280 And I'm submitting that letter

00:20:18.400 to the Prime Minister

00:20:19.400 and saying here's an option.

00:20:21.320 You wanted a solution?

00:20:22.260 Here it is.

00:20:22.980 But think out of the box.

00:20:24.240 Think bigger.

00:20:25.140 Think of the impact

00:20:25.900 that this country can have

00:20:27.040 on worldwide emissions,

00:20:28.340 not in our own little bubble

00:20:29.840 of 1.8%.

00:20:30.920 I must say,

00:20:36.960 I've been quite surprised

00:20:38.800 that Justin Trudeau

00:20:39.660 keeps inviting European heads

00:20:41.220 of government and state here

00:20:42.220 because every time they come,

00:20:43.860 they all do an interview

00:20:44.840 with, you know,

00:20:45.620 Vashi Capellos or something

00:20:46.880 and say,

00:20:47.160 oh, I'd love to buy LNG.

00:20:48.400 And then Justin Trudeau

00:20:49.100 has to come out and say,

00:20:49.680 oh, there's no business case.

00:20:50.780 But it is quite,

00:20:51.920 I mean, it's a joke,

00:20:53.000 I mean, a lot of the government's a joke,

00:20:55.280 but there's a particular absurdity to this

00:20:58.540 in that you have people

00:20:59.480 literally lining up

00:21:00.640 to buy something.

00:21:02.340 You have industry lining up

00:21:03.740 to sell something.

00:21:05.460 And the only,

00:21:06.160 to appropriate the language

00:21:07.260 of one of our next speakers,

00:21:08.740 the gatekeeper,

00:21:10.140 is the federal government.

00:21:11.400 And we're not even looking

00:21:12.440 for an issue here.

00:21:14.520 It's not an issue

00:21:15.080 where someone is looking

00:21:15.780 for a subsidy.

00:21:17.360 They're looking for permission.

00:21:19.060 Exactly.

00:21:19.380 And that's the sole absurdity here.

00:21:22.720 It's actually quite despicable.

00:21:24.180 You have industry,

00:21:25.220 you have buyers,

00:21:26.140 you have an economic argument for it,

00:21:27.920 you have an environmental argument for it,

00:21:29.560 and a federal government

00:21:30.620 standing in the way.

00:21:31.780 And I mean,

00:21:32.120 as a premier,

00:21:33.080 do you feel like

00:21:33.920 this is just bad policy

00:21:35.960 or do you feel

00:21:36.380 this is illegal policy?

00:21:37.480 This is government

00:21:37.980 actually violating

00:21:38.860 its constitutional requirements

00:21:40.420 to respect

00:21:41.060 what's supposed to be your domain?

00:21:43.160 All of the above.

00:21:44.880 And it's not the only one.

00:21:46.540 Right?

00:21:46.980 And it's kind of

00:21:49.700 we're getting used to

00:21:50.400 the bad policy phenomena

00:21:51.660 from Ottawa.

00:21:53.520 The concept, I think,

00:21:55.320 of this for us

00:21:56.740 is that we don't need

00:21:57.580 federal money,

00:21:58.080 at your point,

00:21:58.480 it's a business case.

00:21:59.280 Out west,

00:22:00.420 they didn't need federal money.

00:22:01.340 It was a bad law

00:22:01.960 that caused them

00:22:02.960 to have to buy a pipeline

00:22:03.900 and that was, what,

00:22:04.560 four or five times more

00:22:05.680 in the expense to taxpayers?

00:22:07.260 We don't want them

00:22:08.040 to have any part of this.

00:22:09.480 We should just leave us alone.

00:22:10.880 But you can't put rules

00:22:11.880 in place that say

00:22:12.560 if you don't have a plant

00:22:14.320 up and running

00:22:14.960 by 2030 or whatever

00:22:16.700 the number, 2028,

00:22:18.240 then it can't run

00:22:19.400 for more than five years

00:22:20.520 or it has to be shut down.

00:22:21.720 Like, there's a new clause

00:22:22.880 in that that basically

00:22:23.800 developers are saying,

00:22:25.020 no, no,

00:22:25.240 I need a 20-year runway here. 0.92

00:22:27.140 So you can't do that.

00:22:28.960 So policy is causing a problem.

00:22:30.680 And then the reality,

00:22:32.700 people, generally,

00:22:33.640 people are starting now

00:22:34.840 with the affordability issue

00:22:35.800 all of a sudden.

00:22:36.840 Wow, this is kind of a bite.

00:22:39.700 And your point about the break

00:22:43.200 on the, it said,

00:22:44.580 well, polls trump climate change.

00:22:46.720 Didn't it?

00:22:47.140 Really, that's what it said.

00:22:48.320 The big message is that,

00:22:49.680 oh, if you can do it

00:22:50.160 in the eastern Canada,

00:22:50.820 why can't we do it elsewhere?

00:22:52.180 But I think the bigger message is,

00:22:54.040 why can't we do something better?

00:22:55.840 And that is the challenge.

00:22:57.300 And the prime minister

00:22:58.040 is in this ideological frame of mind

00:23:00.260 that better just doesn't register.

00:23:03.140 And so I keep pushing

00:23:05.480 that give us the ability

00:23:06.940 and be part of the solution

00:23:08.420 to help promote

00:23:09.220 the right legislation.

00:23:10.580 But also,

00:23:11.240 then that gives the First Nations

00:23:12.980 more of an understanding of,

00:23:15.700 okay, I can be part of this now.

00:23:17.660 Because obviously,

00:23:19.240 to do a development

00:23:20.060 like we want to do in New Brunswick,

00:23:21.560 we need First Nations

00:23:22.520 to be part of that.

00:23:23.380 And they will be major,

00:23:25.820 major benefactors of that.

00:23:29.120 And so I'm excited about that.

00:23:30.840 And we're working through that with them.

00:23:32.380 But again,

00:23:32.820 it requires policy that says it's okay.

00:23:34.860 So what relationship

00:23:37.220 would you like to see?

00:23:39.160 Because,

00:23:39.760 and I'm going to be speaking

00:23:40.880 with Premier Smith tomorrow,

00:23:42.140 and I think Alberta has generally,

00:23:43.900 as a matter of survival,

00:23:45.500 had to be a lot more forceful

00:23:46.740 against Ottawa

00:23:47.340 for much of the last several decades.

00:23:49.880 But when you look at

00:23:51.220 that relationship

00:23:51.880 that you would like to see,

00:23:53.240 the one that you have now,

00:23:54.220 the one that possibly

00:23:55.320 Pierre Polyev,

00:23:56.200 assuming he's elected,

00:23:57.260 would be able to provide

00:23:58.180 you as a premier

00:23:59.260 and assuming you win

00:24:00.540 your re-election,

00:24:01.300 what should that look like?

00:24:03.360 Well, I've always been

00:24:04.960 a strong federalist

00:24:05.800 for good reason.

00:24:08.080 Not only the national pride

00:24:09.360 of our nation,

00:24:09.900 but also because,

00:24:11.020 and I also believe

00:24:11.920 that Alberta

00:24:12.900 and Saskatchewan,

00:24:14.640 but Alberta particularly

00:24:15.360 has been paying the bills

00:24:16.200 for a long time

00:24:16.820 in this nation.

00:24:17.480 I think they would agree as well.

00:24:19.060 And I know several years ago

00:24:22.440 as a, you know,

00:24:23.920 a mayor timer

00:24:24.440 that you all know,

00:24:26.100 we were a recipient

00:24:28.380 of transfer funds

00:24:29.140 at about 30%

00:24:30.140 of our budget.

00:24:31.160 But, you know,

00:24:31.680 I'm not proud of that.

00:24:33.460 I'm honored to be part of it

00:24:34.860 because it makes

00:24:35.580 the lifestyle

00:24:36.020 in our province equitable

00:24:37.080 with other parts

00:24:37.800 of the country.

00:24:38.820 But this project

00:24:39.760 that I'm talking about

00:24:40.580 to develop,

00:24:41.540 I've always said,

00:24:42.420 and I've said it

00:24:42.860 for many years

00:24:43.620 and nationally

00:24:44.380 and when I'm in the meetings

00:24:45.460 with my colleagues,

00:24:46.680 I don't believe

00:24:47.680 that we should be

00:24:48.820 in a position

00:24:49.640 not developing resources

00:24:51.560 that we have,

00:24:52.660 which are the very ones

00:24:53.620 that we're relying on

00:24:54.500 from Alberta

00:24:55.980 to pay the bills.

00:24:57.280 I just don't think

00:24:58.020 that's fair.

00:25:00.000 I actually think

00:25:01.060 they moved Danielle Smith

00:25:02.720 to tomorrow

00:25:03.220 because they were worried

00:25:03.840 if you were here

00:25:04.240 the same day

00:25:04.720 she would ask

00:25:05.140 for the money back.

00:25:06.200 I think that might have been

00:25:06.960 the risk there.

00:25:08.760 But as we talk

00:25:11.080 about the road forward,

00:25:12.200 I know you and Premier Smith

00:25:13.220 have actually had

00:25:13.800 quite a good relationship

00:25:14.940 and for a lot of reasons

00:25:16.960 you've had a common foe

00:25:18.320 in the federal government

00:25:19.280 in Ottawa.

00:25:20.200 I wanted to ask

00:25:21.060 about a policy

00:25:21.860 that you're championing

00:25:22.840 in New Brunswick

00:25:24.260 that is coming up

00:25:25.460 that I know Alberta

00:25:26.800 has done as well

00:25:27.800 and is also one

00:25:28.440 of these issues

00:25:28.960 that I think

00:25:29.340 is becoming

00:25:29.900 one where there's

00:25:32.020 a fair bit

00:25:32.380 of national momentum

00:25:33.260 and I don't know

00:25:33.960 how much is public

00:25:34.660 so I think you know

00:25:35.480 what I'm talking about though

00:25:36.320 so I'll just give you

00:25:37.020 the floor on this.

00:25:38.340 Well, and it's our

00:25:39.180 Compassionate Care

00:25:40.000 Intervention Bill

00:25:40.700 that we plan to bring forward

00:25:41.840 in the legislature

00:25:42.560 in May

00:25:43.040 and it is a tough one

00:25:46.200 because we've had

00:25:47.600 some very significant

00:25:48.720 incidents on the homeless

00:25:50.420 side in our province

00:25:52.040 over the last few months.

00:25:53.580 We've had, you know,

00:25:55.200 homeless individuals

00:25:55.900 that have lost

00:25:56.620 and had to amputate

00:25:57.280 their legs

00:25:57.620 because they've frozen.

00:25:59.860 We've had two deaths

00:26:01.280 here recently

00:26:01.840 back about maybe

00:26:02.920 two or three weeks ago

00:26:04.200 that basically

00:26:05.480 were tent fires

00:26:06.220 and people trying

00:26:07.960 to keep warm

00:26:08.540 and I called

00:26:10.320 the daughter

00:26:11.080 of one of the victims

00:26:14.520 that died in the fire

00:26:15.520 and about a week

00:26:17.460 after or less

00:26:18.180 and I knew

00:26:19.240 that he would certainly

00:26:21.140 be upset

00:26:21.980 for good, good reason

00:26:23.040 but of course

00:26:24.340 it's all kind of

00:26:25.720 things we could do

00:26:27.580 better as government

00:26:28.200 and I don't deny

00:26:29.040 any of that

00:26:29.520 because we shouldn't

00:26:30.640 have the situation

00:26:31.340 but I'd made a statement

00:26:33.320 about how do we convince

00:26:34.580 people to come off

00:26:35.900 the street

00:26:36.340 when you know

00:26:37.540 they're not capable

00:26:38.440 of making the decision

00:26:39.660 on their own,

00:26:40.540 you know their life's

00:26:41.540 at risk

00:26:42.020 and how do you find

00:26:44.040 a path to say

00:26:45.040 wow, safety

00:26:46.320 has got to play

00:26:47.100 a role here

00:26:47.620 and of course

00:26:49.940 the question is

00:26:51.740 well we can't do that

00:26:52.780 if they don't want

00:26:53.720 to come

00:26:53.980 they don't want to come

00:26:54.680 so where does

00:26:56.220 our humanity kick in

00:26:57.400 and you say

00:26:57.940 I know that individual

00:26:59.280 won't be alive

00:26:59.900 in the morning

00:27:00.360 so what we're trying

00:27:02.380 to say

00:27:02.720 there are extreme cases

00:27:03.740 that we can analyze

00:27:05.220 and find a solution

00:27:08.160 so a person

00:27:08.780 does not suffer

00:27:09.900 the life changing

00:27:11.420 issues that they suffer

00:27:12.840 from being exposed

00:27:13.520 to the elements

00:27:14.120 and then of course

00:27:15.460 it's the whole concept

00:27:16.600 about

00:27:17.000 how do we find

00:27:18.860 a path

00:27:19.280 out of drugs

00:27:19.940 and addiction

00:27:20.340 I am not a supporter

00:27:22.040 of continued drug

00:27:24.760 being on a program

00:27:27.080 that continues

00:27:27.900 to keep a person

00:27:29.380 addicted to drugs

00:27:30.580 I believe in recovery

00:27:31.860 You obviously

00:27:36.720 could not be

00:27:37.700 geographically further

00:27:38.920 from British Columbia

00:27:40.160 I would argue

00:27:40.900 politically further

00:27:41.600 from British Columbia

00:27:42.300 too

00:27:42.600 but do you look

00:27:44.400 at British Columbia

00:27:45.200 and see

00:27:46.260 a very useful model

00:27:48.140 for everything

00:27:48.760 to do the opposite of

00:27:49.900 you know

00:27:51.180 it's funny you say that

00:27:52.400 because that's exactly

00:27:53.880 what I was going to say

00:27:54.700 they have been a perfect

00:27:56.920 example of what not to do

00:27:58.360 and so

00:28:00.760 why do we pretend otherwise

00:28:04.380 and I've had

00:28:05.700 just this week

00:28:07.120 met with several people

00:28:08.080 that are serving

00:28:08.980 the homeless

00:28:10.720 in the Fredericton area

00:28:11.740 and we talked about

00:28:13.400 and we talked about

00:28:13.420 some of the challenges

00:28:14.040 but for me

00:28:14.660 it's like

00:28:15.020 how do people get here

00:28:16.340 and how do we find a way

00:28:18.320 that we can find them out

00:28:20.540 how do we find a way

00:28:21.560 to help them return

00:28:23.120 to a normal life

00:28:23.960 and what is normal

00:28:25.100 could be very different

00:28:25.840 for different people

00:28:26.580 but the interesting part

00:28:28.780 came back to

00:28:29.440 well if someone

00:28:30.040 doesn't want to go

00:28:30.800 you know

00:28:31.520 they can't give them help

00:28:32.360 and I ask the question

00:28:33.560 because we're looking

00:28:34.240 at a mental health

00:28:36.540 and addiction treatment center

00:28:37.420 because along with addiction

00:28:38.520 the mental health

00:28:39.080 plays a big role

00:28:39.780 and we're working

00:28:41.720 to develop that

00:28:42.600 and we have a building

00:28:43.340 and such

00:28:43.700 but the point

00:28:46.040 that they were raising

00:28:47.040 well if someone

00:28:48.000 wants to go

00:28:48.800 to be treated

00:28:49.580 they've got to

00:28:50.220 have a place to go

00:28:51.220 immediately

00:28:51.540 as soon as they say

00:28:52.260 okay I'm ready

00:28:52.820 they've got a place to go

00:28:53.940 so I said okay

00:28:54.980 so that's Friday night

00:28:56.020 what if they say

00:28:57.460 Saturday night

00:28:58.140 or Sunday night

00:28:59.040 or Monday morning

00:28:59.820 no I don't think

00:29:00.740 this is for me

00:29:01.320 I don't think

00:29:01.860 I want to stay here

00:29:02.560 what do you do then

00:29:03.320 well you have to

00:29:04.120 let them go

00:29:04.760 well I said

00:29:05.660 how many cycles

00:29:06.340 do you get into for that

00:29:07.280 because you just keep

00:29:08.560 going around

00:29:09.060 and around

00:29:09.580 so it is

00:29:11.260 one of those tough

00:29:11.860 discussions

00:29:12.340 but we know

00:29:13.200 homeless situations

00:29:14.220 are increasing

00:29:14.780 we know New Brunswick

00:29:15.500 affordability has played

00:29:16.340 a role

00:29:16.640 we've had an increase

00:29:17.940 in population

00:29:18.500 like we haven't seen

00:29:19.200 for a hundred years

00:29:20.020 and property values

00:29:22.220 have gone up

00:29:22.820 nothing like we'd have

00:29:24.640 here in Ontario

00:29:25.340 mind you

00:29:25.680 just for anyone

00:29:26.180 who wants to move

00:29:26.680 to New Brunswick

00:29:27.140 but the idea

00:29:30.540 is that it's a case

00:29:32.020 where people

00:29:32.640 generally have seen

00:29:33.520 a step change

00:29:34.140 in their ability

00:29:34.820 to afford

00:29:35.560 where they were

00:29:36.120 so we need to not

00:29:37.520 lose sight of them

00:29:38.440 and have them

00:29:39.640 be exposed

00:29:40.300 to the situation

00:29:41.440 that we don't want

00:29:42.080 them to live

00:29:42.520 and become accustomed

00:29:43.120 to

00:29:43.340 and so we have

00:29:44.600 to react quicker

00:29:45.200 we have all kinds

00:29:46.320 of social assistance

00:29:47.840 case workers

00:29:48.900 and when I said

00:29:50.140 ask the question

00:29:51.320 okay so what

00:29:52.900 relationship

00:29:53.600 do our case workers

00:29:54.540 have with the

00:29:55.260 individuals on the street

00:29:56.120 how often do you see them

00:29:58.120 and one of the answers

00:29:59.680 I got

00:30:00.040 well monthly

00:30:00.660 monthly

00:30:02.500 yeah when I'm

00:30:03.800 handing out the check

00:30:04.520 that's not

00:30:07.120 that's not servicing

00:30:08.420 the needs

00:30:08.940 of the people

00:30:09.420 with the people

00:30:10.400 we have in the system

00:30:11.180 I would like it noted

00:30:13.280 he ended

00:30:13.880 as the timer

00:30:14.700 hit five seconds

00:30:15.700 you would have

00:30:16.140 a great career

00:30:16.660 in radio

00:30:17.160 premier

00:30:17.560 if the next election

00:30:18.980 doesn't work out well

00:30:19.840 you'd get out

00:30:20.380 in time for news

00:30:21.500 and traffic

00:30:21.980 well premier

00:30:23.100 Blaine Higgs

00:30:23.860 you have put

00:30:24.980 New Brunswick

00:30:25.600 Conservatives

00:30:26.120 on the map

00:30:26.540 for a lot of people

00:30:27.180 across the country

00:30:28.060 and I know

00:30:28.380 it's been a pleasure

00:30:29.620 I suspect

00:30:30.260 for everyone in the room

00:30:31.100 it's certainly

00:30:31.880 been a pleasure

00:30:32.300 for me

00:30:32.600 so thank you

00:30:33.020 very much

00:30:33.440 thank you

00:30:34.140 thanks for listening

00:30:35.680 to the Andrew Lawton Show

00:30:36.900 support the program

00:30:38.200 by donating to True North

00:30:39.440 at www.tnc.news

Juno News - April 23, 2024

Blaine Higgs on parental rights, gender identity, and being labelled “far right”

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