Juno News - Calgary's mayor wants you to own nothing and be happy

00:00:00.000 Transcription by CastingWords

00:00:30.000 Thank you.

00:01:00.000 welcome to canada's most irreverent talk show this is the andrew lawton show brought to you by true

00:01:19.680 north hello and welcome to you all it is another fantastic edition i hope anyway of canada's most

00:01:30.540 irreverent talk show here on this thursday april 18th 2024 good to have you aboard as we

00:01:37.060 wind down the week at least insofar as the show is concerned as promised a little bit later on

00:01:43.120 we'll have my fireside chat from last week's canada strong and free network conference with

00:01:47.900 New Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs. I'd actually never spoken with or met him before. We had a

00:01:54.720 little introductory chat before our interview and then we had our time on stage and it was great

00:01:58.800 fun, but it was quite good because obviously we've been following on this show a lot of what New

00:02:03.040 Brunswick has been doing on the parental rights front, on the carbon tax front, so it was good to

00:02:08.180 have the chance to speak with Premier Higgs about that, especially as he gears up for what's

00:02:13.320 shaking out to be a rather tense and hotly contested election in just a couple of months,

00:02:19.060 and it was quite fun. I should have pulled the tweet ahead of time, but the New Brunswick

00:02:23.160 Liberals, after Premier Higgs appeared in Ottawa, put out this attack tweet that, well, Premier Higgs

00:02:29.280 was meeting with fringe groups in Ottawa, the leader of the New Brunswick Liberals. I think

00:02:34.160 her name is Susan Holt, if I recall. To be honest, I've already forgotten it, but she was, you know,

00:02:39.400 out doing the work in New Brunswick. And when it was like describing, illustrating who the fringe

00:02:44.960 groups were that Premier Higgs was meeting with, it was a picture of him and me. So I'm glad that

00:02:50.180 the New Brunswick Liberals, I'm the face of fringe groups. I don't take this honour likely. I thank

00:02:55.280 you very much for it. And I hope to live up to your expectations of me and your lofty goals of

00:03:00.340 me. But all that notwithstanding, we'll have my chat with Premier Blaine Higgs a little bit later

00:03:04.480 on in the show. I wanted to begin, we'll go west for the beginning here. I don't know if you've

00:03:09.700 seen this, but Jody Gondek, who is the mayor of Calgary, she just evaded a recall petition, which

00:03:16.660 again, I mean, it did fairly well. It had, you know, 70 some odd thousand signatures, but

00:03:21.320 was nowhere near the threshold to turf her and have another election. But Jody Gondek,

00:03:27.560 she is the mayor of Calgary still, and she is the mayor of a city like many other communities in

00:03:32.680 canada filled with young people who cannot afford to buy a home now this is what she describes

00:03:38.840 when she is talking about the plight of young people who can't afford to buy a house in this

00:03:44.720 economy to see a segment of the population reject this idea of owning a home and they're moving

00:03:51.460 towards rental because it gives them more freedom they can travel to different places they can try

00:03:56.500 out different communities their job may take them from place to place and so people have become much

00:04:01.240 more liberated around what housing looks like and what the tenure of housing looks like but as

00:04:06.960 municipalities we haven't kept pace with that change we're still stuck in the 40s 50s and 60

00:04:13.000 okay there's a lot in that 30 seconds there she says municipalities haven't kept pace with

00:04:25.500 this move that she says is totally real of young people in large numbers rejecting

00:04:31.460 homeownership because they prefer to rent. They find it gives them more freedom. They find it

00:04:37.060 liberate. She used the word liberated. And she said, oh, municipalities. So she's basically

00:04:41.580 saying that homeownership is an antiquated, outdated concept. The idea that people should

00:04:45.980 own homes, that's just something of the 40s, 50s, and 60s. And that instead we should all just rent.

00:04:51.420 Now, the thing about renting is that it enriches someone else.

00:04:54.680 Renting does not abolish property ownership.

00:04:57.660 Renting means that only a few people are the property owners and everyone else is enriching

00:05:03.040 their bottom line.

00:05:04.180 This is why renting is, and I was a renter for many years, it's why it's so infuriating

00:05:08.300 because you spend money that gives you a roof over your head, but you amass no equity, you

00:05:13.120 have nothing to sell at the end of it.

00:05:15.080 And sure, maybe it means that you don't have to deal with some of the capital expenditures

00:05:18.980 that the owners do, but your money, you are investing in someone else's company and someone

00:05:25.660 else's business. And they're the ones that get to reap the rewards. They're the ones that get to

00:05:30.620 take the returns from that. Now, again, you may choose for whatever reason to rent for a short

00:05:35.700 period of time. Maybe you are more transient. Maybe you are a student. But for the most part,

00:05:41.120 the people who rent are people who cannot afford to buy. And this is true time and time again in

00:05:48.520 surveys. I just pulled up a sampling of stories. Young people pessimistic about chances of owning

00:05:53.660 a home poll. This is a CTV story. It was a poll done by the Ontario Real Estate Association

00:05:59.000 found that three quarters of recent university and college graduates want a home. Three quarters

00:06:04.900 want one, but 40% don't think they can ever afford one. Another story in the Globe and Mail. Young

00:06:11.560 adults are giving up on home ownership and a lot of them are furious about it. The list goes on and

00:06:17.720 on and on. Young people who deselect, who self-select out of the housing market are not

00:06:22.360 doing so because they feel they are freer and more liberated. They're doing so because they have not

00:06:28.680 been able to live this part of the Canadian dream. And this is not just, you know, people that are

00:06:33.980 working part-time, people who work full-time jobs, who have stable, steady incomes, what we would

00:06:39.820 have called a strong middle-class income a few years ago, are still priced out of the housing

00:06:46.000 market. And there are a number of layers to this problem. Yes, interest rates are a big issue. That

00:06:51.620 wasn't the case a few years ago. You also have the case where homes are not being built. And this is

00:06:58.100 where, I mean, whether you like Pierre Paliere or not, his crusade against so-called municipal

00:07:02.260 gatekeepers is an important one because you do have a lot of NIMBYs. I mean, the provincial

00:07:06.960 government in Ontario, for example, has allowed NIMBYism to prosper at the municipal level by not

00:07:12.900 allowing the development of fourplexes which again might not be the most desirable for people

00:07:17.860 but they give you a way into the market they give you a way in and these things are allowing renters

00:07:25.800 to rent and that's good we need to encourage it they're also encouraging investment in housing

00:07:31.760 they're encouraging building and construction so the reason I bring that up and the fourplex debate

00:07:37.020 is a different one here but we need to have people building homes you need to have people building

00:07:41.580 homes that people can then buy. And you're going to have, as supply goes up, you're going to have

00:07:47.500 demand start, not necessarily go down, but over time it will, because there will be people now

00:07:53.080 able to bid. And you're not going up against 30 people for a house. You're going up maybe against

00:07:58.100 five. And this is, I think, something that is going to not even reduce the cost, the value of

00:08:05.400 your house compared to what you bought it for. It's going to slow the increase. And this is the

00:08:10.920 problem is that you have people that have gotten very wealthy on their homes and they don't want

00:08:15.480 any policy mechanisms that are going to reduce what they believe, reduce that price for when

00:08:21.420 they eventually sell it. And I understand that argument. I understand why there's that aversion

00:08:25.620 here. But I also understand that we can have an economy and a society in which the next generation

00:08:32.680 and the generation after that are unable to ever have a home. People are living in their parents

00:08:37.800 basement indefinitely or they're renting indefinitely and again they are now they are

00:08:42.520 now the product of someone else's bottom line they are the provider of someone else's revenue stream

00:08:49.320 instead of being able to produce for themselves now all of this is i think to say you should have

00:08:54.760 a choice if you want to rent for whatever reason yes you should have a choice and i i believe

00:09:00.360 there's probably one or two people out there that have the view that jody gondek does that

00:09:05.720 maybe renting is easier it's low stress i get to be more transient i get to be a nomad but

00:09:11.240 the vast majority of people who cannot afford homes are people who would love to be able to

00:09:17.960 but aren't they'd love to be able to buy a home but cannot do it because of the economic climate

00:09:24.600 and when she talks about home ownership as being this 40s 50s 60s concept she's giving a huge

00:09:30.600 middle finger to her young constituents who would love who don't view that as being antiquated who

00:09:35.800 view that as being part and parcel of their own life and i mean look there's a libertarian and

00:09:40.840 conservative argument here which is that if you don't have property you don't actually have

00:09:45.560 anything if you don't have your own land your own home your own property your own little piece you

00:09:49.880 can't do anything so someone who rents it gives them so much more freedom but like as someone

00:09:55.080 pointed out on twitter they can't even necessarily put up a tv mount on the wall like how much

00:10:01.400 freedom is that really if you don't own your own abode if you don't have control over your abode

00:10:08.920 and you know it's funny when she talks about this in terms of oh it makes you so much happier it's

00:10:14.280 freeing it's liberating it's all of that it just comes remarkably similar do you remember that old

00:10:19.560 thing that the world economic forum was being dragged for there was a i believe she was an

00:10:23.800 Estonian or Danish member of parliament something like that but there was a an essay that she wrote

00:10:30.200 Danish uh yeah there we go welcome to 2030 I own nothing have no privacy and life has never been

00:10:36.840 better this was the essay published by the World Economic Forum now it wasn't like Klaus Schwab's

00:10:43.320 personal prescription that you'll be happy but it was an idea that was advanced by the WEF as this

00:10:50.840 you know, sort of 2030 world in which we all just borrow and rent everything. No one owns anything

00:10:56.740 except, okay, well, if we're all borrowing and renting, who's the one from whom we're borrowing

00:11:01.100 and renting? Oh, the state. So this is why that idea, that concept of owning nothing and being

00:11:07.560 happy was so absurd because if you own nothing, someone else is going to be happy. You are

00:11:11.920 probably not going to be happy. But Jodi Gondek is the one who's now saying we should all own

00:11:17.100 nothing and be happy. She is unironically saying that we should all be the beneficiaries

00:11:22.440 of this weird world in which other people hold the power, other people hold the land,

00:11:29.300 and we just live in it at their privilege. Now, interestingly enough, Sean points out,

00:11:34.520 because I said, you know, Sean, go and get that. And it took him, you know, I don't know,

00:11:37.320 three and a half days to find that article. Probably not actually, but they pulled it offline.

00:11:41.500 So you have to go to like an archive. Oh, there it is. Oh, you're prepared today, Sean. I like this.

00:11:47.100 You have to go to an archive site to find the article

00:11:49.980 because they were tired of getting dragged for it.

00:11:52.680 So even the own nothing and be happy people

00:11:55.260 are taking advantage of owning their domain name

00:11:57.520 because you couldn't delete it if you didn't own the website.

00:12:00.180 So take that, Klaus Schwab.

00:12:01.960 And actually, we have a new photo that we came across of Klaus Schwab

00:12:06.920 that we wanted to share with you.

00:12:09.300 Oh, you are looking lovely there, Klaus.

00:12:13.340 Yes, you will own nothing and be happy.

00:12:15.460 renting is liberating yeah that is uh no that's mayor jody gondag but she i will say she actually

00:12:21.240 looks quite good sporting the infamous uh klaus schwab convocation gear so take from that what

00:12:28.040 you will but my goodness what a slap in the face to young calgarians i suspect if you run that

00:12:32.820 uh recall petition again you would perhaps find a little bit more support from some of the young

00:12:37.760 people that are now being told no no you're just uh just enjoy the freedom you have by

00:12:42.360 not having to mow your lawn or any of that stuff but I would also point out here and I was going

00:12:48.660 to mention this she owns two properties so I'm assuming maybe she lives in both I don't know

00:12:54.820 this is her council disclosure statement she owns one home in Panorama Hills in Calgary and another

00:13:01.180 in the East Village now maybe she just flips back and forth between them or maybe one of them is a

00:13:07.120 rental property and the more that young calgarians decide to rent the better it is for jody gondike

00:13:14.140 because those rent payments that some young calgarian couple that can't afford their own

00:13:17.860 house pay go right into her bank account so uh take from that what you will but my goodness what

00:13:23.660 a disgusting and tone-deaf comment from someone who should be at the front lines of making it

00:13:28.640 possible for people to have homes making it possible for people to buy letting building

00:13:33.820 take place, letting there just be this unleashing of construction and development. And instead,

00:13:39.680 she's saying, yeah, yeah, you should all just rent instead. My goodness. So without further ado,

00:13:44.160 we'll go from west to east. I wanted to share with you my sit down, my fireside chat with New

00:13:48.920 Brunswick Premier Blaine Higgs. Thank you very much. Thank you. All my life, I've wondered how

00:14:00.880 to get a standing ovation, and apparently it's to walk on stage with Premier Higgs, so thank you

00:14:05.420 for letting me bask in that, and thank you to everyone for being here this morning. I love the

00:14:10.960 format of the fireside chat, mainly because it's Ottawa and you need to be by the side of a fire to

00:14:16.040 survive for nine of the 12 months of the year, but also we get the chance, especially in front

00:14:20.660 of an audience like this, to delve into some of the issues that I don't think you get on your

00:14:24.960 average CBC panel, and that doesn't mean we're going to give you a totally easy ride on this

00:14:30.360 premier but I do want to give you the chance to talk about issues that I know matter to people

00:14:33.880 in this room and those watching from beyond and normally you try to warm up to the controversial

00:14:39.040 stuff but I feel like you can take the controversial stuff because you've been quite a leader on this

00:14:43.620 issue so let's start with transgender issues and parental rights because let's start there and

00:14:52.580 then we'll see how it goes because this is an issue that we understand why other premiers have

00:14:59.440 taken actions they've taken in the last few months on this.

00:15:01.960 In a lot of cases, it was because you had,

00:15:04.040 and they had their own supporters pushing them to do very similar things.

00:15:08.060 You were the first one.

00:15:09.460 So let me just ask you, when you put that policy forward

00:15:12.180 that required parental consent for gender changes,

00:15:16.060 for re-identifications at school, why did you go there?

00:15:20.260 Well, thank you for the question, Andrew.

00:15:21.840 I guess the point was that we,

00:15:24.560 throughout this whole duration of being in politics,

00:15:27.100 I came at a time when I'd already had a career.

00:15:29.440 And I wanted to bring a lot of ideas that I learned and decision processes that I learned,

00:15:34.140 but also on the foundational principle that you do what's right and the rest will fall in place.

00:15:38.740 Now that doesn't always work in politics, it seems, but nevertheless that's the philosophy we live by.

00:15:43.440 And through this whole discussion, it became a policy that kind of got into our educational system

00:15:49.240 without a whole lot of discussion or detailed discussion with our caucus.

00:15:53.440 And after the election of 2020, and then a little while after, I started asking questions about it in detail.

00:16:00.580 And then when I read the paragraph that basically caused teachers to hide information from parents

00:16:05.880 and to do so as part of the request of the policy, you know, this just wasn't right.

00:16:12.360 This isn't the foundation of families that we build on.

00:16:16.180 And it was interesting. My wife and I talked about this prior to making it an issue.

00:16:21.460 And by the way, we've been married, I believe, 46 years this summer.

00:16:25.580 And four daughters, five grandchildren.

00:16:29.460 We're very close to our family.

00:16:31.300 And the idea that we would hide information, we thought, how would we like that if that happened?

00:16:37.620 So then we started bringing it as a question.

00:16:39.760 And then we saw some of the curriculum that was being taught on a parent or a school day, a school teacher's day.

00:16:46.800 And you'd say, or professional development day is what it's called.

00:16:49.700 So anyway, you'd see, wow, where's the curriculum here that involves math and science and literacy

00:16:55.900 and numeracy, where's that in all this?

00:16:59.300 So the challenge was, how do you have the debate on a sensitive issue, recognizing the

00:17:05.080 reality of it all, but finding a path to do it?

00:17:08.920 And I think that we have walked away from too many controversial issues, and that is

00:17:12.840 why we've seen kind of an erosion of what we might have always considered standard.

00:17:18.080 It becomes normalized, and it's not because it's normal, it's normal, it's different.

00:17:22.900 And we are a society that absolutely recognizes and supports all of our differences.

00:17:29.280 But let's not exclude family as part of that process.

00:17:33.940 It was an issue that, for someone like me who doesn't follow New Brunswick politics explicitly,

00:17:40.680 and I'd say probably has done so a little bit more thanks to you and stuff you've been doing there,

00:17:45.740 It was not something that was really accurately defined by the media, what you did.

00:17:51.360 I think before I read the actual...

00:17:53.180 Yeah, it is.

00:17:54.200 Well, as we heard from the last panel, it's okay.

00:17:56.680 They should have just been watching, reading The Line and other outlets like that.

00:18:00.240 But you were doing something that was a relatively moderate proposal.

00:18:05.900 And even a lot of people that are in the parental rights space that have been advocating for something similar were saying,

00:18:11.320 well, it's a compromise, he's not going far enough, it's a good start.

00:18:16.000 But you were, to the activists that were against you,

00:18:19.180 it was as though you had gone so far, you had done something so radical,

00:18:22.960 you had done something so far-right is the term.

00:18:25.100 I mean, did you ever imagine that you would be labeled as far-right

00:18:27.880 when you were elected as Premier, you know, going back to 2013?

00:18:31.880 And why is this issue one that has been maligned in that way?

00:18:36.080 Well, just recently I was asked about a case of the far-right,

00:18:39.520 And isn't it amazing that in today's world, far right is having parents involved with their kids?

00:18:45.260 Isn't that amazing?

00:18:46.900 So I say that tells you how far the spectrum has actually moved and how we need to find a path forward.

00:18:51.780 But in analyzing kind of what we wanted to bring forward is let's address this.

00:18:56.400 And then looking abroad, looking at what's going on in Europe, particularly what's going on in Europe,

00:18:59.920 about how they manage real issues around gender dysphoria,

00:19:03.460 but how they look at it as, you know, getting the right process for treatment

00:19:06.540 and through psychologists, psychiatrists, to understand, okay, how do we manage this?

00:19:10.640 Because in some cases it's very real, but in other cases it's a process of kids growing up,

00:19:15.480 and that's where parents are that one continuum in their life.

00:19:19.840 And so we just say, okay, we want parents to be involved.

00:19:22.940 And no, I didn't imagine it would be such a controversial issue

00:19:26.420 because it seems like such a basic, fundamental principle that we all cherish.

00:19:33.360 One of the things that I find interesting, though,

00:19:36.900 is that there are a lot of issues that tend to be within the domain

00:19:40.900 of what we would call social conservatives.

00:19:43.040 And these issues tend to get treated as political third rails.

00:19:46.580 You can't talk about this, you can't talk about that.

00:19:49.020 This is an issue that I think is very much in a line

00:19:51.460 with where a lot of social conservatives wanted to take society.

00:19:54.560 But it seems to have a broader appeal.

00:19:57.080 I mean, the number of folks that I've spoken to

00:19:58.760 that have supported what you've done in New Brunswick

00:20:00.880 or what Premier Danielle Smith has done in Alberta

00:20:03.280 that would not identify as pro-life,

00:20:06.680 would not identify as anti-gay marriage.

00:20:09.640 But on this issue, they're there.

00:20:12.100 What do you make of that?

00:20:12.940 I mean, how has there been a coalition

00:20:14.520 that does seem to be very large,

00:20:16.880 not just within the conservative movement,

00:20:18.380 but even within society itself,

00:20:20.360 behind some of these policies?

00:20:22.760 I think the risk we're facing in Canada

00:20:25.940 and the risk that we see in the U.S.

00:20:28.400 is we've drifted so far from what people look at as common sense

00:20:33.000 and how to manage the next steps.

00:20:36.460 And we've drifted ideologically so far

00:20:38.900 that all of a sudden people kind of say,

00:20:41.700 whoa, this has to be addressed.

00:20:44.620 So I think what we're seeing is, okay,

00:20:46.100 here's something that's so basic, so fundamental,

00:20:48.400 and yet it's an issue.

00:20:49.820 But it will cause us, I think, to all be part of the solution.

00:20:54.120 And when I think that we put teachers in a position

00:20:56.820 to not be truthful with the child's parents,

00:20:59.980 why aren't teachers speaking up and saying, you know, we need to be part of this?

00:21:04.420 And when we talk about, okay, this can be irreparable surgeries

00:21:10.200 that could happen to young children, why aren't doctors speaking up

00:21:13.640 and saying, okay, we believe we need to manage this,

00:21:16.200 we need this how it needs to be done?

00:21:18.280 I refer to the European model now that Sweden, Norway, Denmark, the UK

00:21:23.060 have all changed their policies to look at a different way

00:21:25.760 to deal with a problem. Always recognize there's a problem and always recognizing there's a way

00:21:30.680 to protect every individual in their beliefs and how we manage through that. But not just

00:21:37.420 ignoring the reality of what makes sense and what's real. So I think that's the purpose for

00:21:44.200 me is that we need to find the moderate approach here. And sometimes the definition, because you

00:21:49.900 saw what happened in New Brunswick. So we are a progressive conservative party, but people jump

00:21:56.080 on one side or the other wholeheartedly without trying to find the balance in the middle. And

00:22:00.440 that's what we're trying to find. And sometimes it creates a bit of a firestorm. My wife will

00:22:04.820 often say when I come home at night, what fire did you start today? And she said, I was reading

00:22:09.840 the news. I said, that's your first problem. You shouldn't do that. As long as it's true north,

00:22:14.160 we'll forgive her. All right. Fair enough. There's one. Good for you. Let me ask you,

00:22:17.940 Before we get on to that definitional problem, which I think is tremendously important,

00:22:21.420 did you anticipate that you were starting something that would become a pretty national wave?

00:22:27.040 And I'm curious if you had other conversations with premiers on either way that say,

00:22:31.640 hey, thank you for breaking the seal on this so we can, or what the hell are you doing?

00:22:35.420 Do you realize what my caucus expects me to do now?

00:22:38.380 Well, yes, we certainly have talked amongst colleagues,

00:22:42.900 And certainly, you know, I had discussions with many, many, and many have different views,

00:22:49.200 and that's what we are in Canada.

00:22:51.020 But I certainly look at what Saskatchewan is doing and what Daniel Smith is doing in Alberta.

00:23:00.200 And I guess I'd like to think that at the end of the day,

00:23:03.680 we'll find a solution that doesn't seem to be far right.

00:23:07.020 It just seems to be really right.

00:23:08.940 and I mean by that it's such a correct path forward. And so in those discussions, did

00:23:15.580 I think it would turn into a national thing? No, that wasn't a discussion. When my wife

00:23:19.600 and I talked about this and I said, you know, this is going to be the week, we're going

00:23:22.500 to talk about this, we both realized this could be the issue that either continues us

00:23:31.500 in government or takes us out. But we were both prepared to say, fair enough.

00:23:36.700 And so, and I think there lies the whole challenge that we have as a society, as politicians,

00:23:46.060 as members of any profession, which I just stated with health care and with education,

00:23:51.520 is to say I will do what I believe is correct.

00:23:55.540 I will voice my opinion in a very respectful, mannerful way to improve what I believe needs to be improved.

00:24:02.820 And it doesn't have to be protests and blowing horns and jumping on the street.

00:24:06.700 but it has very adult discussions that say,

00:24:08.940 I'm not afraid to talk about it.

00:24:10.700 Let's talk about that progressive conservative name

00:24:14.880 because that's always been to many people

00:24:16.800 an inherent contradiction.

00:24:18.000 And you have some people in the conservative family

00:24:20.220 in this country that say,

00:24:21.820 no, I'm a proud progressive conservative,

00:24:23.520 and that means something very specific to them.

00:24:25.660 You have others that just sort of tolerate it

00:24:27.440 because that's the name of the party.

00:24:29.100 And we also don't have in Canada

00:24:31.000 the harmonization of the federal and provincial

00:24:33.120 right-leaning parties,

00:24:34.660 which is why you have this patchwork from BC, where you now have two warring parties that are

00:24:39.480 going for right-of-center votes, and you have in Alberta a complete unique situation there.

00:24:44.880 I'm curious how that... I was just trying to gloss over that, but I heard a laugh... That was

00:24:48.740 apparently a laugh line for someone from Alberta, but I'm curious about your perspective on that in

00:24:53.540 New Brunswick, because you're a progressive conservative premier, and I think that a lot

00:24:56.840 of people would say that you are putting forward very ironclad, small-c conservative principles,

00:25:01.580 with no need for a qualifier there.

00:25:03.840 But how does that affect your navigation of that coalition that you have in New Brunswick

00:25:08.420 and also how New Brunswick fits into the Canadian conservative family?

00:25:12.700 Well, it adds in kind of a new dimension of, I won't say confusion,

00:25:17.560 but certainly an irony there that exists with the two, with the progressive conservative

00:25:21.940 because some people will grab a hold of the progressive piece

00:25:24.320 and some people will grab a hold of the conservative piece

00:25:26.580 and then you have to kind of bridge that within caucus.

00:25:29.220 And as you know, back last June, I didn't bridge that very successfully

00:25:33.220 because I had six members of caucus that basically stood against the government

00:25:37.220 and voted against the government.

00:25:39.220 So it does bring an issue.

00:25:43.220 But I think at the same time, it's how do you have the discussions?

00:25:48.220 And coming from a business world, and I know people say,

00:25:51.220 well, you know, sometimes you just move along too fast.

00:25:54.220 I'll have a lot of meetings, a lot of debate, a lot of discussions,

00:25:57.220 a lot of discussions and there comes a point in time where you just got to get on with it.

00:26:01.220 And so we got on with it last June after numerous meetings and caucus and such, but there were

00:26:06.980 six individuals, maybe eight, that were not happy with that and it causes angst.

00:26:14.080 So you can see the political upheaval that kind of creates and we were joking here coming

00:26:21.400 in talking about, because I did in a state of the province, I did this, people didn't

00:26:26.460 know if i was going to run again and i put a song at the end of it an old clash song that said should

00:26:30.600 i stay or should i go and and uh kind of danced off the stage but this this time uh when we did

00:26:37.040 the state of the province there's a lot of great things to talk about in the province and and i

00:26:40.440 was thinking my song should be the elton john one that uh i'm still standing uh because but but i

00:26:47.400 was recommended against that but well premier higgs is leading karaoke in the shore club

00:26:51.520 downstairs at uh at 10 o'clock eastern time but i'll ask you on that premier when you mention

00:26:57.760 those six members that left your caucus do you view that as being

00:27:03.040 if i could just use a blunt word a failure of your leadership to keep your party together or

00:27:07.040 do you believe that the coalition was too broad and those people really didn't belong

00:27:11.120 in your party in the first place no it's a challenge that i you know probably if my interest

00:27:18.320 was how do I survive the next election,

00:27:20.720 then I probably would have found a different way

00:27:24.320 to try to manage through it,

00:27:25.460 but I wouldn't have had the same result.

00:27:27.660 And that, I think, is what happens to many of us

00:27:30.320 as we get watered down in our own beliefs

00:27:32.960 because we're trying to appease the masses.

00:27:37.060 We had diverse opinions, but that goes two ways.

00:27:39.760 It goes two ways that, okay,

00:27:41.260 if I have 80% of caucus that are on side

00:27:43.340 and want to move forward,

00:27:44.680 and I have 20% that don't,

00:27:46.040 It's rare if ever you get a consensus within caucus of unity, it just doesn't happen,

00:27:52.780 or extremely rare.

00:27:54.500 So the point that, okay, we have the majority of caucus, we're ready to move on this, and

00:27:59.260 the Minister of Education, he and I, we're ready to move, we've presented, we've

00:28:02.480 talked, it was time.

00:28:04.760 So yeah, we could have talked about it a lot longer, but I didn't see an end in sight.

00:28:10.280 was going to be, we were never going to convince some, all the while we had, we had full support

00:28:16.340 of, as I say, 80% of the caucus. But let me extend that thought to its logical conclusion here,

00:28:22.000 because if it sounds like, I'm going to do one of those, it sounds like you're saying things

00:28:25.580 that like Kathy Newman and Jordan Peterson, but I'm, I'm going to try to actually represent what

00:28:29.800 you're saying, or at least as I understand it, that there's a risk for conservative parties of

00:28:34.140 trying to be too many things to too many people. And that this big tent, which is often viewed as

00:28:39.420 feature of the conservative movement actually carries its own cohesion challenges oh it does

00:28:44.380 absolutely does and what you're seeing is i mean we see the liberal party i mean if you want to

00:28:48.860 talk about far left i mean how far can you get um and this isn't a political don't challenge

00:28:56.300 this is not a political discussion is it i agree um but but the idea and you see to your point you

00:29:01.900 raised earlier that that's where the spectrum is going and everybody everybody has taken oh well

00:29:06.140 I'm way over here on the left side and and I think that is our job as Conservatives to find

00:29:13.260 the the the way to have the detailed discussions and the frank discussions and I'm saying that

00:29:18.060 and what I'm excited about and he'll be here a little later Pierre Pauliev what I've seen from

00:29:22.860 the rallies he's had in in New Brunswick and the people that are showing up we went to a rally the

00:29:27.020 average age was probably 35,000 1200 people I think that's just wonderful to see young people

00:29:33.020 coming into our party and getting involved since you mentioned pierre pauliev who will be here at

00:29:41.740 11 30 and not right now as some people were disappointed to see me on stage but he has been

00:29:47.820 touring the country on his it started as the axe the tax rally and now it's the spike the hike

00:29:52.540 rally and i think there's going to be another rhyme next week but uh the galvanizing issue for

00:29:56.940 the federal conservatives right now has been opposing the carbon tax and this has been an

00:30:01.020 issue in uh certainly in your province as well we've seen provinces sue the federal government

00:30:06.300 we've seen the supreme court side against provinces on this and then i think for the

00:30:10.220 most part the federal government's carbon tax was pretty safe until they decided that you know

00:30:14.620 atlantic canadians with home heating oil needed a bit of a carve out and then it sort of undermined

00:30:18.780 their their whole premise here and i'm curious for you first off how much of an issue is that

00:30:24.540 uh electorally speaking as you gear up for an election for for people in new brunswick this

00:30:28.940 this carbon tax but but also how do you anticipate this going when you have a federal government that

00:30:35.580 right now doesn't even want to meet with premiers on this issue which is i mean justin trudeau loves

00:30:40.780 talking and he loves people having to hear him talk but this is like one opportunity to sit down

00:30:46.620 that he doesn't want to take because he doesn't want to hear what the premiers like you have to

00:30:49.980 tell him well it's it's disappointing but you get used to it um so you so sometimes you don't bother

00:30:57.100 but we are bothering so there was a question asked that oh well if other provinces have a

00:31:01.900 solution then then let us know so so the the idea for us in new brunswick and worldwide really is to

00:31:08.540 is for canada to punch well above its weight in terms of reducing world emissions we can talk

00:31:13.500 about our 1.8 percent of world emissions and we can cause everybody in every household across this

00:31:18.060 country to spend more and and have less and do less or we can say we've always been a nation

00:31:24.460 that's rich in energy, it has given us the lifestyle we have,

00:31:28.520 but it's also given us the ability to help others.

00:31:30.980 So isn't it sad?

00:31:31.900 When I was in Europe a few years ago,

00:31:34.060 I was talking to different people that was after the invasion in Ukraine,

00:31:39.380 and they're saying all through this,

00:31:40.980 we're absolutely shocked that a country as rich as Canada

00:31:45.200 is not supplying any energy to Europe to offset Russian oil and gas.

00:31:51.020 Absolutely shocked.

00:31:51.940 So when you think about that for a minute, we've spent how many millions or billions to help Ukraine?

00:31:59.220 So on the one hand, we supply arms to the war, which we're not begrudging.

00:32:04.100 We want to do that.

00:32:05.700 But then on the other hand, we're forcing them to buy Russian oil and gas and finance from the other side.

00:32:12.140 So then you look at what can we do about that in addition to supplying what we have here.

00:32:17.480 On the world emissions side, we in New Brunswick, we have 77 trillion standard cubic feet of natural gas sitting, waiting to be developed.

00:32:24.780 Out west, this is happening.

00:32:26.400 We have an LNG plant that is waiting to be converted to an export facility.

00:32:31.140 It is an import built back 15 years ago.

00:32:34.240 So we have supply.

00:32:35.660 We have market.

00:32:36.380 We have four countries, right without even asking, saying we'll sign up for a 20-year deal.

00:32:41.300 We have 174 coal plants in Europe.

00:32:44.880 We have China building coal plants at the rate of two a week, 100 a year.

00:32:49.140 They operate 1,100 coal plants.

00:32:51.660 For every coal plant that's shut down by natural gas, we reduce emissions by 50%.

00:32:55.580 So you say, wow, we have an opportunity right here in New Brunswick to shut down coal plants.

00:33:01.220 Total Energy, one of the world's largest energy companies,

00:33:04.820 said one of their key pillars, of their four pillars,

00:33:09.000 is to develop as much natural gas worldwide as they can

00:33:11.600 and shut down as many coal plants as they can

00:33:13.560 because it'll have a bigger impact, quicker impact

00:33:16.160 than anything else that is happening.

00:33:18.240 And at the same time, the affordability issue in our country

00:33:21.360 goes away or diminishes greatly

00:33:23.320 because we'll use those same resources to fund technology,

00:33:26.500 research, development.

00:33:27.620 And when do people start using and acting differently?

00:33:30.280 You know, I think years ago about the film industry

00:33:32.120 when digital photography come along,

00:33:34.400 where would you find a film camera now?

00:33:36.600 And the same thing with the LED lights?

00:33:38.420 Well, now you just look for LED lights

00:33:39.940 because of their brightness.

00:33:41.600 and their energy consumption. When we have the ability to have that sort of technological

00:33:45.940 advancement, people will change their ambits. We will be able to meet the requirements which

00:33:50.220 we cannot meet today from the federal policies. We are putting forward a policy to the, and

00:33:55.980 I actually have it coincidentally here with me, but, and it's called No Tax Required,

00:34:02.780 just support us developing gas and shutting down coal plants in the process. And I'm submitting

00:34:07.320 that letter to the Prime Minister and saying, here's an option, you wanted a solution?

00:34:11.760 Here it is.

00:34:12.760 But think out of the box.

00:34:13.760 Think bigger.

00:34:14.760 Think of the impact that this country can have on worldwide emissions, not in our own

00:34:18.640 little bubble of 1.8%.

00:34:21.360 I must say, I've been quite surprised that Justin Trudeau keeps inviting European heads

00:34:30.540 of government and state here, because every time they come, they all do an interview with

00:34:34.640 you know, Vashi Capellos or something and say, oh, I'd love to buy LNG. And then Justin Trudeau

00:34:38.400 has to come out and say, oh, there's no business case. But it is quite, I mean, it's a joke, but

00:34:42.480 I mean, a lot of the government's a joke, but there's a particular absurdity to this and that

00:34:48.100 you have people literally lining up to buy something. You have industry lining up to sell

00:34:53.560 something. And the only to appropriate the language of one of our next speakers, the gatekeeper,

00:34:59.260 is the federal government. And we're not even looking for an issue here. It's not an issue

00:35:04.380 where someone is looking for a subsidy,

00:35:06.680 they're looking for permission.

00:35:08.340 Exactly.

00:35:08.800 And that's the sole absurdity here.

00:35:12.000 It's actually quite despicable.

00:35:13.460 You have industry, you have buyers,

00:35:15.440 you have an economic argument for it,

00:35:17.220 you have an environmental argument for it,

00:35:18.740 and a federal government standing in the way.

00:35:21.080 And, I mean, as a premier,

00:35:22.380 do you feel like this is just bad policy

00:35:25.260 or do you feel this is illegal policy?

00:35:26.780 This is government actually violating

00:35:28.160 its constitutional requirements

00:35:29.740 to respect what's supposed to be your domain.

00:35:32.520 All the above.

00:35:34.380 and it's not the only one right and there's um it's kind of we're getting used to the bad policy

00:35:40.460 phenomena from from ottawa the the the concept i think of of this is for us is that we don't

00:35:46.620 need federal money to your point it's a business case out west they didn't need federal money it

00:35:50.620 was bad law that that caused them to have to buy a pipeline and that was what four or five times

00:35:54.620 more in the expense to taxpayers we don't want them to have any part of this we wish to just

00:35:59.260 leave us alone but you can't put rules in place that say if you're if you don't have a plant up

00:36:03.740 and running by 2030 or whatever the number 2028 then it can't run for more than five years or

00:36:10.060 it has to be shut down like there's a there's a new clause in that that basically developers

00:36:13.980 say no no i need a 20-year runway here so so you can't do that so policy is causing a problem and

00:36:20.300 then and then the reality people generally people are starting now with the affordability issue all

00:36:25.180 of a sudden wow this is uh this is kind of bite and and and your point about um about the the

00:36:32.140 the break on the, it said, well, polls trump climate change, didn't it? Really, that's

00:36:36.940 what it said. The big message is that, oh, if you can do it in eastern Canada, why can't

00:36:40.440 we do it elsewhere? But I think the bigger message is, why can't we do something better?

00:36:45.160 And that is the challenge. And the Prime Minister is in this ideological frame of mind that

00:36:50.300 better just doesn't register. And so I keep pushing that give us the ability and be part

00:36:57.260 of the solution to help promote the right legislation. But also, then that gives the

00:37:01.680 First Nations more of an understanding of, okay, I can be part of this now. Because obviously to

00:37:08.640 do a development like we want to do in New Brunswick, we need First Nations to be part of

00:37:12.400 that. And they will be major, major benefactors of that. And so I'm excited about that. And we're

00:37:20.480 working through that with them. But again, it requires policy that says it's okay.

00:37:25.080 So what relationship would you like to see? Because, and I'm going to be speaking with

00:37:30.500 Premier Smith tomorrow, and I think Alberta has generally, as a matter of survival, had to be a

00:37:35.300 lot more forceful against Ottawa for, you know, much of the last several decades. But when you

00:37:40.180 look at that relationship that you would like to see, the one that you have now, the one that

00:37:43.880 possibly Pierre Polyev, assuming he's elected, would be able to provide you as a Premier, and

00:37:48.920 assuming you win your re-election, what should that look like? Well, I've always been a strong

00:37:54.600 for good reason, not only the national pride of our nation, but also because, and I also

00:38:00.800 believe that Alberta and Saskatchewan, but Alberta particularly has been paying the bills

00:38:05.500 for a long time in this nation.

00:38:06.780 I think they would agree as well.

00:38:10.300 And I know several years ago as a, you know, a Maritimer that you all know, we were a recipient

00:38:17.680 of transfer funds at about 30% of our budget, but you know, I'm not proud of that. I'm

00:38:22.940 honored to be part of it because it makes the lifestyle in our province equitable with other

00:38:26.840 parts of the country. But this project that I'm talking about to develop, I've always said, and I've

00:38:31.900 said it for many years and nationally and when I'm in the meetings with my colleagues, I don't

00:38:36.480 believe that we should be in a position not developing resources that we have, which are the

00:38:42.380 very ones that we're relying on from Alberta to pay the bills. I just don't think that's fair.

00:38:47.680 I actually think they moved Danielle Smith to tomorrow

00:38:52.500 because they were worried if you were here the same day

00:38:54.020 she would ask for the money back

00:38:55.180 I think that might have been the risk there

00:38:57.820 but as we talk about the road forward

00:39:01.360 I know you and Premier Smith have actually had quite a good relationship

00:39:04.220 and for a lot of reasons you've had a common foe

00:39:07.620 in the federal government in Ottawa

00:39:09.020 I wanted to ask about a policy that you're championing

00:39:12.140 in New Brunswick that is coming up

00:39:14.760 that I know Alberta has done as well

00:39:17.100 and is also one of these issues that I think is becoming one where there's a fair bit of national momentum.

00:39:22.740 And I don't know how much is public, so I think you know what I'm talking about, though,

00:39:25.660 so I'll just give you the floor on this.

00:39:27.620 Well, and it's our Compassionate Care Intervention Bill that we plan to bring forward in the legislature in May.

00:39:34.220 And it is a tough one because we've had some very significant incidents on the homeless side in our province over the last few months.

00:39:42.860 We've had, you know, homeless individuals that have lost and had to amputate their legs because they've frozen.

00:39:49.160 We've had two deaths here recently, back about maybe two or three weeks ago,

00:39:54.040 that basically were tent fires and people trying to keep warm.

00:39:58.580 And I called the daughter of one of the victims that died in the fire, about a week after or less.

00:40:08.020 And I know that he will certainly be upset for good, good reason.

00:40:12.920 But, of course, it's all kind of, you know, things we could do better as government,

00:40:17.600 and I don't deny any of that because we shouldn't have the situation.

00:40:21.340 But I'd made a statement about how do we convince people to come off the street

00:40:25.620 when you know they are not capable of making the decision on their own,

00:40:29.820 you know their life's at risk,

00:40:32.100 and how do you find a path to say, wow, safety has got to play a role here.

00:40:38.420 And of course the question is, well we can't do that.

00:40:42.660 They don't want to come, they don't want to come.

00:40:44.880 So where does our humanity kick in and you say,

00:40:47.740 I know that individual won't be alive in the morning.

00:40:50.860 So what we're trying to say, there are extreme cases

00:40:53.180 that we can analyze and find a solution

00:40:57.580 so a person does not suffer the life-changing issues

00:41:01.520 that they suffer from being exposed to the elements.

00:41:04.020 And then of course it's the whole concept

00:41:06.000 about how do we find a path out of drugs and addiction.

00:41:10.140 I am not a supporter of continued drug,

00:41:14.600 being on a program that continues

00:41:17.320 to keep a person addicted to drugs.

00:41:20.240 I believe in recovery.

00:41:25.360 You obviously could not be geographically further

00:41:28.420 from British Columbia.

00:41:29.800 I would argue politically further

00:41:31.000 from British Columbia too.

00:41:32.900 But do you look at British Columbia

00:41:34.960 and see a very useful model for everything

00:41:38.200 to do the opposite of?

00:41:40.160 You know, it's funny you say that

00:41:41.740 because that's exactly what I was going to say.

00:41:45.100 They have been a perfect example of what not to do.

00:41:48.700 And so why do we pretend otherwise?

00:41:54.200 And I had, just this week, met with several people

00:41:57.440 that are serving the homeless in the Fredericton area.

00:42:01.660 And we talked about some of the challenges.

00:42:03.460 But for me, it's like, hey, how do people get here?

00:42:06.360 And how do we find a way that we can find them out?

00:42:09.980 How do we find a way to help them return to a normal life?

00:42:13.600 And what is normal could be very different for different people.

00:42:16.420 But the interesting part came back to, well, if someone doesn't want to go,

00:42:20.340 you know, they can't give them help.

00:42:21.920 And I asked the question because we're looking at a mental health

00:42:25.840 and addiction treatment center.

00:42:26.720 Because along with addiction, the mental health plays a big role.

00:42:29.940 And we're working to develop that, and we have a building and such.

00:42:33.460 But the point that they were raising, well, if someone wants to go to be treated,

00:42:39.040 they've got to have a place to go immediately.

00:42:40.980 As soon as they say, okay, I'm ready, they've got a place to go.

00:42:43.600 So I said, okay, so that's Friday night.

00:42:46.140 What if they say Saturday night or Sunday night or Monday morning,

00:42:49.420 no, I don't think this is for me.

00:42:50.760 I don't think I want to stay here.

00:42:52.020 What do you do then?

00:42:52.960 Well, you have to let them go.

00:42:54.640 Well, I said, how many cycles do you get into for that?

00:42:57.220 Because you just keep going around and around and around.

00:42:59.720 So it is in one of those tough discussions.

00:43:02.060 But we know homeless situations are increasing.

00:43:04.200 We know New Brunswick affordability has played a role.

00:43:06.360 We've had an increase in population like we haven't seen for 100 years.

00:43:10.020 And property values have gone up.

00:43:12.780 Nothing like we'd have here in Ontario, mind you,

00:43:15.020 just for anyone who wants to move to New Brunswick.

00:43:18.540 But the idea is that it's a case where people generally have seen a step change

00:43:23.440 in their ability to afford where they were.

00:43:25.600 So we need to not lose sight of them

00:43:27.740 and have them be exposed to the situation

00:43:30.740 that we don't want them to live and become accustomed to.

00:43:33.200 And so we have to react quicker.

00:43:34.880 We have all kinds of social assistance caseworkers.

00:43:38.700 And when I asked the question,

00:43:41.360 okay, so what relationship do our caseworkers have

00:43:44.220 with the individuals on the street?

00:43:46.200 How often do you see them?

00:43:48.280 And one of the answers I got, well, monthly.

00:43:51.420 Monthly?

00:43:52.480 Yeah, when I'm handing out the check.

00:43:53.780 that's not servicing the needs of the people

00:43:58.720 with the people we have in the system.

00:44:01.480 I would like it noted he ended as the timer hit five seconds.

00:44:05.140 You would have a great career in radio, Premier,

00:44:07.040 if the next election doesn't work out well.

00:44:09.260 You'd get out in time for news and traffic.

00:44:11.540 Well, Premier Blaine Higgs,

00:44:13.240 you have put New Brunswick Conservatives on the map

00:44:15.840 for a lot of people across the country,

00:44:17.420 and I know it's been a pleasure, I suspect, for everyone in the room.

00:44:20.580 It has certainly been a pleasure for me, so thank you very much.

00:44:22.980 Thank you.

00:44:23.780 thank you that was new brunswick premier blaine higgs and uh my friend dr roy yipin in the last

00:44:33.400 frame there he uh stood up to like bolt out the room uh when it was over but we'll have to get

00:44:38.060 roy on there dr roy is fantastic he ran in montreal i forget i think it was ndg i can't

00:44:44.080 remember for the montreal for the quebec conservative party very very good guy uh he is a physician and

00:44:49.340 he's very opinionated on a lot of the trans issues because he has a red line like so many

00:44:55.480 others do on the treatment of children. And I was interested after the Blaine Higgs panel,

00:45:00.200 I spoke to a transgender conservative activist, Blaine Baduk, who you may see on Twitter from

00:45:06.220 time to time. And there was the two Blaines. And I was curious how Blaine thought of these

00:45:11.820 policies. And it was incredibly supportive because again, most sensible people, and that includes

00:45:18.200 transgender people do not want children to be in this place where they're living this double life

00:45:23.660 at school that is hidden from their parents and that the school is enabling that the school is

00:45:29.000 then keeping it from them so the idea that these policies which are really about parental consent

00:45:33.740 and information are transphobic just does not hold water whatsoever so good on premier higgs he

00:45:40.220 started a national conversation it's one that's carried on through other provinces and seeped

00:45:44.780 into the federal realm as well.

00:45:46.540 So that does it for us

00:45:47.700 for the Andrew Lawton Show this week.

00:45:49.160 We'll have off the record on tomorrow.

00:45:52.060 I was sorry, I forgot what day it was for a second.

00:45:53.820 And then we'll be back on Monday

00:45:54.720 with more of Canada's most irreverent talk show.

00:45:57.340 Thank you, God bless and have a wonderful weekend.

00:46:00.780 Thanks for listening to the Andrew Lawton Show.

00:46:03.300 Support the program by donating to True North

00:46:05.380 at www.tnc.news.

00:46:14.780 We'll be right back.

00:46:44.780 We'll be right back.

Juno News - April 18, 2024

Calgary's mayor wants you to own nothing and be happy

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