Juno News - October 15, 2021


Canada needs to stand up for Taiwan


Episode Stats

Length

36 minutes

Words per Minute

130.28633

Word Count

4,808

Sentence Count

198


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:06.660 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:12.740 Coming up, Taiwan is a beacon of democracy in Asia
00:00:16.420 and an important counterbalance against the Chinese regime.
00:00:19.400 We talk about how Canada can better support Taiwan.
00:00:23.600 The Andrew Lawton Show starts right now.
00:00:30.000 Welcome to the Andrew Lawton Show.
00:00:32.340 This is a special edition of the program.
00:00:34.480 On the weekend programs, what we do is do a deep dive
00:00:37.460 into some very critical issues that oftentimes don't get nearly the attention they deserve.
00:00:42.800 And one of the issues I want to spotlight on this episode is the state of Taiwan,
00:00:47.740 but more specifically, Taiwan-Canadian relations.
00:00:51.800 Taiwan is a beacon of democracy in a part of the world that very much needs it.
00:00:55.760 It's also a country that has been excluded from very key international organizations,
00:01:01.420 notably, as we've seen in the last year and a half, the World Health Organization,
00:01:05.300 despite Taiwan having one of the best records in the world of any nation
00:01:09.500 in dealing with the COVID-19 pandemic.
00:01:12.860 We have continued threats of aggression from China.
00:01:16.100 As recently as a few days ago, the Chinese regime saying that it wants to
00:01:20.340 pursue at all costs the reunification.
00:01:23.900 And here we are with a Canadian position that is not entirely clear in supporting Taiwan.
00:01:29.920 We have a fantastic panel of guests here to delve into this issue,
00:01:34.680 and we'll see where the discussion goes.
00:01:36.260 I'm joined by St. Albert Edmonton Member of Parliament Michael Cooper,
00:01:40.260 who introduced the Canada-Taiwan Relations Framework Act,
00:01:44.000 which would have pursued a very strong relationship between Canada and Taiwan
00:01:48.100 that I know we'll get to during the discussion.
00:01:50.460 Also, Yue Yen Tsang, who is a founder of Taiwan Watch,
00:01:53.900 a freelance translator now with a great passion for Canada-Taiwan relations
00:01:57.980 and also Taiwan's relationships around the world.
00:02:01.400 And York University Professor Jung-Chen Shin,
00:02:04.180 who is an expert on Taiwan-Canada affairs and joins us now as well.
00:02:08.380 All of you, thank you so much for coming on today.
00:02:10.580 It's great to speak with you.
00:02:11.920 Thank you.
00:02:12.920 Thank you.
00:02:13.760 So I want to start with you on this, Michael,
00:02:15.920 from the political side of this.
00:02:17.840 How would you characterize right now the Canadian government's approach to Taiwan?
00:02:23.360 And I guess a better part of that question is what should it be in your view?
00:02:28.360 The approach of the current government has been, frankly, timid.
00:02:33.360 For the longest time, the Prime Minister hadn't even uttered of a word Taiwan.
00:02:40.980 Indeed, it was when I posed a question to him at the start of COVID back in January of 2020
00:02:49.500 and pressed him on whether the government would support Taiwan's participation
00:02:54.680 at the World Health Assembly,
00:02:58.080 that for the first time in a long time,
00:03:00.200 if not the first time ever since Justin Trudeau became Prime Minister,
00:03:04.440 but he answered in the affirmative.
00:03:07.120 And just recently, when Taiwan applied to join the CPTPP,
00:03:16.600 the government of Canada didn't indicate its support for Taiwan.
00:03:22.720 So there's a lot that Canada should be doing to stand up with Taiwan on a diplomatic basis
00:03:30.580 in terms of strengthening economic relations and encouraging greater defense cooperation
00:03:35.680 and working with our elders.
00:03:38.120 I want to move to you on this next, UAN,
00:03:40.640 because I know you look at not only Canada's relationship with Taiwan,
00:03:44.200 but also that of other countries.
00:03:46.640 I mentioned in my introduction the issues with the World Health Organization,
00:03:50.600 which I think has certainly been a lot,
00:03:53.000 it's been very revealing of a sentiment that exists elsewhere.
00:03:56.500 But would you say it's getting better?
00:03:58.160 Would you say more countries are coming alongside with this idea of recognizing Taiwan,
00:04:03.400 or is it pretty stagnant?
00:04:05.680 I wouldn't say it's better,
00:04:09.120 but I would sum up as the exposure of Taiwan news in the last almost two years
00:04:21.180 has been increased dramatically and in a positive way.
00:04:26.200 And how has that been positive?
00:04:28.620 I mean, why has that happened, I guess?
00:04:30.300 Many was because that Taiwan had been very successful in controlling the pandemic,
00:04:40.460 and economic growth has been soaring better than before,
00:04:49.820 which stand out of all, most of the countries,
00:04:55.100 and even the growth is faster than China.
00:04:59.760 Well, that's very interesting.
00:05:01.240 Professor, let me turn to you on this.
00:05:02.900 I know that for the most part,
00:05:05.420 and you may have a different perspective on this,
00:05:07.380 I would think a lot of the politicians in Western countries,
00:05:10.440 in liberal democracies,
00:05:11.480 are ideologically on side with Taiwan,
00:05:14.620 especially as it pertains to China on the other side of this,
00:05:18.820 the People's Republic of China.
00:05:20.500 So what is it that prevents stronger action on this?
00:05:23.340 Is it just fear?
00:05:24.500 Fear of China?
00:05:25.220 Is that what it comes down to?
00:05:26.260 I think it comes down to a couple of factors.
00:05:29.760 Number one, of course, is economic factors.
00:05:32.720 And China has a large volume of markets and imports,
00:05:37.480 which obviously is one of the most important factors,
00:05:40.580 which will attract most of the country to toward China.
00:05:44.920 And there's also other factors,
00:05:46.920 because China actually uses several diplomacy to lure different countries.
00:05:53.420 For example, during the pandemic and vaccine diplomacy
00:05:58.000 has been very successful in South America and Africa and the Middle East.
00:06:04.880 And also the Road and Build Initiative,
00:06:08.980 which is a project to start to build infrastructure across several countries,
00:06:15.560 which has also been very successful to attract many countries' participation.
00:06:21.320 Of course, the most recent report shows that
00:06:24.840 that's a huge downside for the RBI Road and Build Initiative,
00:06:30.740 which is a hidden debt,
00:06:32.640 which already created more than $360 billion debt to China.
00:06:40.820 I'm glad you brought up the Belt and Road Initiative,
00:06:43.240 because I think the influence of this
00:06:45.080 and the spread of this around the world is very much understated.
00:06:48.980 And I would also say to talk about the media angle here unexplored significantly.
00:06:54.560 Let me turn to you on this, Michael,
00:06:56.420 because we know that the conservative government,
00:06:59.420 the previous conservative government under Stephen Harper,
00:07:02.060 really viewed free trade as being the tide that raised all boats.
00:07:05.640 We saw dozens of free trade agreements with countries around the world.
00:07:09.640 But at the same time,
00:07:10.600 we know that despite China's entry into the world stage,
00:07:13.400 into a number of these global liberal institutions,
00:07:15.900 China has not liberalized.
00:07:17.880 China will not liberalize.
00:07:19.500 It's not moving in that direction.
00:07:21.300 Instead, as we mentioned with the Belt and Road Initiative,
00:07:24.380 China tends to benefit from this without really giving
00:07:27.940 and without any other countries around the world benefiting.
00:07:31.060 So to bring this into the Taiwan context,
00:07:33.400 let me ask you here,
00:07:34.800 does China need to be dealt with in that way for Taiwan to be dealt with?
00:07:39.900 Do both things need to be done at the same time?
00:07:41.960 Or irrespective of what's happening with China,
00:07:44.300 can a country come up with a very strong pro-Taiwan policy?
00:07:48.900 Well, we need to recognize that China is not our friend.
00:07:55.460 It is an important partner in many respects,
00:07:59.360 but it is not our friend.
00:08:00.620 And this government's approach of more or less going along
00:08:04.520 and getting along with the Chinese Communist regime
00:08:07.260 and seeking to appease the Chinese Communist regime
00:08:09.780 resulted in hostage diplomacy,
00:08:13.160 resulted in the Chinese Communist regime
00:08:15.260 threatening the safety and security
00:08:17.340 of more than 300,000 Canadians in Hong Kong
00:08:22.960 and has resulted in punitive trade measures imposed against Canada.
00:08:28.840 So we need to work with our allies to counter China
00:08:34.260 and to support a democracy in the Indo-Pacific region,
00:08:38.560 which is being threatened by the Chinese Communist regime.
00:08:41.560 And that includes strengthening relations with Taiwan,
00:08:46.120 including in areas of trade and investment.
00:08:49.620 And we shouldn't minimize the importance of Taiwan to Canada.
00:08:53.760 Taiwan is a big deal.
00:08:55.580 It is our 13th largest trading partner.
00:08:58.300 It is our fifth largest trading partner in Asia.
00:09:01.760 And it is one of the world's largest economies.
00:09:04.580 That's, I think, a very interesting point,
00:09:08.360 because a lot of times people view Taiwan
00:09:11.300 and support for Taiwan as being an inherently
00:09:14.000 anti-Chinese regime move,
00:09:16.500 which, you know, in some ways it may well be.
00:09:18.480 But I think you're right to point out
00:09:19.860 the independent reasons that trade with Taiwan
00:09:23.140 should be pursued.
00:09:24.660 And this goes back to what you and I were speaking about
00:09:26.900 at the beginning, UAN,
00:09:27.900 about how people are learning more about this.
00:09:31.020 They're learning more about what's happening in Taiwan.
00:09:33.160 But do you find that there is,
00:09:35.400 when you do your advocacy around the world and in Canada,
00:09:37.940 do you find there is an understanding of what Taiwan is?
00:09:41.700 Or does it seem very abstract for people?
00:09:44.040 It's just this thing they hear about in the news
00:09:46.060 every now and then.
00:09:48.580 In terms of understanding Taiwan and Taiwanese
00:09:51.680 and the preference what Taiwanese want for their future,
00:09:56.380 regarding the sovereignty and country recognition,
00:10:00.120 I don't see ordinary people knowing very much.
00:10:08.660 Some may say they don't even show an interest about it.
00:10:12.920 So in the circle of the news media,
00:10:17.700 people in the group may know better.
00:10:23.000 In general, no.
00:10:24.300 On the other hand, lots of misinformation coming up,
00:10:30.080 mainly from China.
00:10:31.500 So this is a countermeasure.
00:10:36.800 The effort has not been there.
00:10:40.040 And countries that are receiving the negative impact
00:10:48.960 from China when they have stretched their relations
00:10:56.900 with Taiwan a bit better.
00:10:59.140 In any way, that may anger in China.
00:11:02.720 So the negative impact they receive,
00:11:06.620 in another way, it's a lesson to teach the public.
00:11:10.620 That's a taboo area.
00:11:11.920 No, don't go.
00:11:13.680 So, no.
00:11:15.500 That's interesting.
00:11:16.560 And I guess, Professor, I'll ask you,
00:11:18.040 why should people care?
00:11:19.140 What's the message to those who don't necessarily
00:11:22.020 understand the impact of Taiwan or why it matters?
00:11:25.340 Why is this a region that needs to be given attention
00:11:28.100 and a country that needs to be supported?
00:11:31.140 I think there are a couple of reasons
00:11:32.400 that people probably want to pay attention to it.
00:11:36.000 The number one is that it actually helps Canada's economy.
00:11:40.440 The first thing is, if you see, like, in Canada,
00:11:45.240 over the past two decades,
00:11:47.600 our manufacturing sectors already declined almost like 50%,
00:11:53.460 which had a huge impact.
00:11:56.680 For example, our blue-collar workers,
00:11:58.920 most of them, they don't have jobs now.
00:12:01.440 And a lot of manufacturing decline.
00:12:05.380 It's not just cycling.
00:12:07.820 A lot of jobs permanently move out of Canada,
00:12:12.780 and which also affect Canadians' innovation.
00:12:17.040 Because a lot of innovation, if you want to commercialize,
00:12:20.040 you require cooperation between R&D and manufacturers.
00:12:24.240 The truth is, Canada's exporting now,
00:12:29.200 most of them based on resource-based.
00:12:31.780 On the other side, Taiwan has probably one of the best manufacturers,
00:12:36.360 especially in terms of high-end semiconductors.
00:12:39.640 So from this perspective,
00:12:41.120 I see that's a huge complementarity
00:12:44.340 between Canada and Taiwan.
00:12:45.940 And number two is Taiwan and Canada
00:12:50.260 actually share a lot of things in common.
00:12:53.860 Everyone knows that Taiwan is on the first line
00:12:56.320 on confronting with China.
00:12:58.520 So a lot of, like, misinformation
00:13:00.700 and a lot of propaganda
00:13:03.780 and from China to go to Taiwan.
00:13:07.320 And as we all know that China's influence
00:13:10.620 into Canada's business, politics,
00:13:13.620 and economy has been huge.
00:13:18.000 And I think Canada has a lot to learn from Taiwan.
00:13:20.920 How in a small island can have such strong power
00:13:25.140 and know how to deal with China's different economy
00:13:30.460 and information strategies.
00:13:34.180 There's an interesting issue that you raised there,
00:13:38.160 which is the like-minded nature
00:13:39.760 of Canada's relationship with Taiwan.
00:13:42.640 And I'll go back to you on this, Michael,
00:13:44.380 because we know the Conservative government
00:13:46.040 or the Conservative Party, rather,
00:13:47.740 ran in the last election on the idea of Canzac.
00:13:50.400 And there was a push behind that,
00:13:52.200 that Canada should pursue relationships
00:13:53.920 with similar countries.
00:13:55.220 In that case, Australia, New Zealand, and the UK.
00:13:58.380 Is that where things are going now?
00:14:00.340 Where countries should start prioritizing values
00:14:03.000 and similarities and shared concerns
00:14:06.380 in pursuing relations?
00:14:08.020 And do you agree with the professor here
00:14:09.980 that Canada and Taiwan would fit that?
00:14:13.600 Yes, we certainly do.
00:14:16.080 We share common values,
00:14:19.060 commitment to freedom, democracy, pluralism,
00:14:21.880 and the rule of law.
00:14:24.840 And yes, it is important
00:14:27.600 that Canada conduct its foreign relations
00:14:30.220 on the basis of common values.
00:14:33.000 And we need to confront
00:14:36.140 the Chinese Communist regime
00:14:38.680 and work with like-minded allies,
00:14:42.060 including the United Kingdom,
00:14:45.420 Australia, the United States,
00:14:48.040 India, and Japan.
00:14:49.880 Because right now,
00:14:52.380 having illegally,
00:14:54.720 but nonetheless successfully,
00:14:57.220 annex Hong Kong,
00:14:59.140 Taiwan isn't the crosshairs
00:15:01.300 of the Chinese Communist regime.
00:15:03.620 Indeed, John Aquino,
00:15:05.420 the commander of the
00:15:07.180 U.S. Indo-Pacific Command,
00:15:10.520 stated earlier this year
00:15:12.060 that the annexation of Taiwan
00:15:13.740 is the Chinese Communist regime's
00:15:16.520 number one priority.
00:15:17.920 And there's no question
00:15:20.260 that the increased aggression
00:15:22.760 that we have seen
00:15:24.100 is a real threat,
00:15:27.080 not only to stability and peace
00:15:29.460 in the Indo-Pacific region,
00:15:31.540 but also to the international
00:15:33.700 rules-based order.
00:15:35.000 And we've got to work with our allies
00:15:36.180 to confront that and deal with it.
00:15:38.760 I'm glad you brought up Hong Kong.
00:15:40.760 And I have a question for you
00:15:41.900 about that, UAE.
00:15:42.700 And when we see what we've seen
00:15:44.440 in the last year,
00:15:45.940 and I guess the last couple of years
00:15:47.500 in Hong Kong,
00:15:49.220 does that force a lot of the people
00:15:52.180 in your community,
00:15:52.980 the activists for Taiwan's independence,
00:15:55.360 to get a little bit nervous?
00:15:57.160 Or is that really underscoring
00:15:59.040 why it's so important
00:16:00.100 to continue that fight for independence?
00:16:02.240 Not only in the activists
00:16:07.080 in the forum that I am in,
00:16:10.260 also the opposition party
00:16:14.260 currently in Taiwan politics
00:16:17.660 acquired a field
00:16:21.680 of little smaller parties
00:16:25.080 that are even more convinced
00:16:27.460 that there is no any gray area
00:16:31.420 in terms of the preference
00:16:34.700 to choose the future for Taiwan
00:16:37.240 independently
00:16:39.560 or to go alone
00:16:42.060 softening with China.
00:16:46.100 I think the main opposition party,
00:16:50.640 Kuomintang KMT,
00:16:53.100 has been receiving
00:16:55.440 less approval rate
00:17:00.160 and the rating is dropping down.
00:17:03.760 One of the reasons
00:17:04.680 that coming from
00:17:07.080 what's happening in Hong Kong
00:17:09.160 and the result,
00:17:12.100 the loss in general elections,
00:17:14.660 president reelected
00:17:18.540 from the PP party
00:17:20.780 beginning of last year.
00:17:22.460 I'll put the same question
00:17:25.640 to you, Professor.
00:17:26.580 What, if anything,
00:17:27.740 is there to take away
00:17:28.840 from the Hong Kong experience
00:17:30.560 that could help,
00:17:31.920 or I mean,
00:17:32.420 if we're being analytical
00:17:33.220 about this,
00:17:33.880 hurt the Taiwan independence movement?
00:17:37.820 China has been promoted
00:17:39.200 one country, two systems
00:17:40.900 to Hong Kong
00:17:43.180 and want to use it
00:17:44.920 as an example
00:17:46.180 and then to reunificate Taiwan.
00:17:49.300 and as we have seen
00:17:52.300 since 2017,
00:17:53.980 China basically
00:17:56.220 completely violated
00:17:57.840 the agreement
00:17:58.780 with the United Kingdom
00:18:00.260 and completely destroyed
00:18:02.540 freedom
00:18:03.360 and partially democracy
00:18:06.480 in Hong Kong.
00:18:08.800 So it turns out that
00:18:11.180 Hong Kong,
00:18:14.580 as an example,
00:18:15.520 for reunification
00:18:18.280 between China
00:18:20.000 and Taiwan
00:18:20.560 has completely
00:18:21.600 lost the credibility.
00:18:23.940 So I think
00:18:25.000 it's very important
00:18:26.120 to let the world know
00:18:27.280 what's happening
00:18:28.380 and what happened
00:18:29.620 in Hong Kong,
00:18:31.040 which deliver one,
00:18:33.020 I think,
00:18:33.360 very important message
00:18:34.400 to the free world,
00:18:35.760 which is
00:18:36.380 you should never trust
00:18:38.080 CCP's commitment,
00:18:40.640 even in papers.
00:18:42.360 and if you remember
00:18:45.260 like the Deng Xiaoping
00:18:46.340 ever promised
00:18:48.440 that 50 years
00:18:50.440 we will maintain
00:18:51.320 the same system
00:18:52.280 in Hong Kong,
00:18:53.620 but after Xi Jinping
00:18:54.680 become the leader
00:18:56.560 and then they completed
00:18:57.900 and forget
00:18:59.360 the commitment.
00:19:02.640 So I guess
00:19:04.560 that nowadays,
00:19:06.140 especially in Western,
00:19:07.720 the so-called
00:19:08.960 Ponda scholars
00:19:11.660 and the schools,
00:19:14.280 they kind of
00:19:15.260 want to base
00:19:16.260 on Western values.
00:19:17.920 They want to believe
00:19:19.060 that everyone
00:19:20.540 will honor the contract.
00:19:22.760 Once we reach
00:19:23.920 agreement with China
00:19:25.080 and then we can
00:19:26.400 draw China
00:19:28.020 into the world trade system,
00:19:30.120 eventually
00:19:30.560 we can change
00:19:31.920 China's political regimes.
00:19:34.480 This idea
00:19:35.440 has been proved
00:19:36.840 completely wrong
00:19:38.120 over the past 50 years.
00:19:41.660 I wish I could
00:19:43.840 disagree with you,
00:19:44.660 Professor,
00:19:45.260 but I really can't.
00:19:46.420 I mean,
00:19:46.580 the historic record
00:19:47.480 speaks for itself there
00:19:49.200 and I'll turn to you,
00:19:50.620 Michael,
00:19:50.900 because not trusting
00:19:51.980 the Chinese Communist Party
00:19:53.520 has been something
00:19:54.340 that Canadians
00:19:55.240 in particular
00:19:55.860 have been reminded
00:19:56.620 of why they shouldn't do
00:19:58.320 for the last
00:19:59.180 several months,
00:20:00.720 the last year and a half.
00:20:01.700 Just recently,
00:20:02.300 we had the return
00:20:03.360 of Michael Kovrig
00:20:04.480 and Michael Spavor
00:20:05.920 after China
00:20:07.080 had engaged
00:20:07.740 in hostage diplomacy
00:20:09.060 over Canada's arrest
00:20:10.880 of Meng Wanzhou.
00:20:12.580 But when we look at this,
00:20:14.420 there's been for the last,
00:20:16.160 however long
00:20:16.980 this pandemic
00:20:17.840 has been going on,
00:20:18.740 18 months or so,
00:20:19.720 there's been this sense
00:20:20.780 that,
00:20:21.260 well,
00:20:21.560 you know,
00:20:21.760 we can't criticize
00:20:22.500 China's handling
00:20:23.400 of the pandemic
00:20:24.000 because we don't want
00:20:24.700 to rock the boat,
00:20:25.500 we don't want to be aggressive
00:20:27.020 when they have
00:20:27.800 the two Michaels.
00:20:29.040 And a lot of those
00:20:30.280 same themes
00:20:31.000 are still going to be there now.
00:20:32.200 Well,
00:20:32.520 we can't be aggressive
00:20:33.580 with Taiwan
00:20:34.400 or aggressive with China
00:20:35.700 about its position
00:20:36.540 on Taiwan
00:20:37.220 because,
00:20:37.820 you know,
00:20:38.040 they could arrest
00:20:38.740 some Canadians,
00:20:39.600 they could lash out
00:20:41.320 in other ways.
00:20:42.500 What do you respond
00:20:43.720 to people who say that with?
00:20:45.120 Because I think
00:20:45.520 there is a legitimate concern
00:20:46.700 that any strong position
00:20:48.700 against China
00:20:49.400 will result in
00:20:50.420 that sort of conduct
00:20:51.480 which we've seen
00:20:52.160 from them in the past.
00:20:55.120 I think in some respects
00:20:57.420 it's the wrong lesson
00:20:59.500 to take away
00:21:00.380 that somehow
00:21:00.940 we can't rock
00:21:01.980 the boat
00:21:02.480 and that we should
00:21:03.200 go along
00:21:03.840 and get along
00:21:04.960 with the Chinese
00:21:06.060 communist regime.
00:21:07.280 As I outlined earlier,
00:21:08.900 the strategy
00:21:09.460 simply hasn't worked.
00:21:12.860 And so I think
00:21:14.240 it's just the wrong
00:21:15.360 approach to take.
00:21:18.300 What would,
00:21:19.400 just to take
00:21:20.380 a broader look
00:21:21.300 at the Canada-China
00:21:22.720 relationship,
00:21:23.700 which includes Taiwan
00:21:24.860 but has other factors
00:21:25.880 as well,
00:21:26.380 what would that relationship
00:21:27.700 look like
00:21:28.380 if you had your way?
00:21:29.540 In terms of the
00:21:31.100 Canada-Taiwan relationship?
00:21:32.920 Well, the Canada-China
00:21:33.820 relationship more broadly,
00:21:35.220 which I'm just pointing out here,
00:21:36.540 includes Taiwan
00:21:37.340 but also has other things.
00:21:39.760 Yeah.
00:21:40.360 Well, as I say,
00:21:42.140 again,
00:21:42.580 I think we have to recognize
00:21:44.780 that China
00:21:46.600 is a serious threat.
00:21:48.920 This is a dangerous regime.
00:21:50.540 regime.
00:21:51.580 It is a regime
00:21:53.020 that is committing
00:21:55.080 genocide right now
00:21:56.800 as we speak.
00:21:58.620 And so the measures
00:22:00.180 that I would like
00:22:01.000 to see Canada take
00:22:02.520 is to take
00:22:03.420 a strong position
00:22:04.460 against the Chinese
00:22:05.580 communist regime
00:22:06.520 in terms of imposing
00:22:08.280 Magnitsky sanctions
00:22:10.060 on Chinese communist officials
00:22:11.740 who are responsible
00:22:13.080 for dismantling
00:22:14.300 democracy
00:22:15.320 in Hong Kong.
00:22:17.260 The U.S.,
00:22:18.100 for example,
00:22:18.860 has imposed
00:22:20.700 such sanctions
00:22:21.480 on 34 individuals,
00:22:23.480 including Hong Kong's
00:22:25.120 chief executive,
00:22:26.660 Carrie Lam.
00:22:27.480 That would be
00:22:28.000 an important step
00:22:28.960 to send a clear message
00:22:30.660 to the Chinese communist regime
00:22:32.740 to think twice
00:22:33.980 about doing to Taiwan
00:22:35.800 what it has done
00:22:37.380 to Hong Kong.
00:22:38.520 We need to get
00:22:39.560 Huawei
00:22:40.140 out of Canada's
00:22:42.320 5G network.
00:22:44.040 Telecoms
00:22:44.740 are already
00:22:45.600 moving away
00:22:46.580 from Huawei,
00:22:48.160 but for some reason
00:22:48.880 this liberal government
00:22:49.800 hasn't seen fit
00:22:51.180 to do that.
00:22:52.120 So there's a lot
00:22:53.140 of measures
00:22:53.740 that we can take
00:22:55.060 and should take
00:22:55.840 to stand up
00:22:56.780 to the Chinese
00:22:57.800 communist regime's
00:22:58.780 bullying
00:22:59.060 and the fact
00:22:59.860 that they are not
00:23:00.760 just a threat
00:23:01.360 to Taiwan,
00:23:03.060 but in many respects
00:23:04.280 they're a security threat
00:23:05.260 to Canada.
00:23:07.200 Yui,
00:23:07.800 and what do you think
00:23:08.440 of that position?
00:23:09.420 That their countries
00:23:10.300 have a vested interest,
00:23:11.800 Canada and other nations
00:23:12.980 around the world
00:23:13.620 have a vested interest
00:23:14.640 in taking a strong position
00:23:16.360 on China,
00:23:17.880 which would help Taiwan
00:23:19.120 but would also
00:23:19.940 help themselves.
00:23:20.940 Do you agree with that?
00:23:22.880 Certainly,
00:23:23.940 yes.
00:23:27.140 China's testing
00:23:28.320 your boundary
00:23:29.160 all the time.
00:23:30.500 So
00:23:30.780 relationship
00:23:33.500 with Taiwan
00:23:34.800 in terms of trade
00:23:36.320 and
00:23:37.400 diplomatic
00:23:39.120 relations
00:23:40.640 is solely
00:23:41.960 depending on
00:23:43.120 on the country itself,
00:23:44.240 on Canada itself.
00:23:47.080 And
00:23:47.440 China should stay
00:23:49.000 out of the business
00:23:50.020 of Canada.
00:23:51.860 And
00:23:52.180 it's a very fine line
00:23:56.080 and Canada
00:23:56.960 certainly need to learn
00:23:58.260 to navigate
00:23:59.000 the way out.
00:24:01.160 And
00:24:01.300 Canada
00:24:01.860 has not been
00:24:02.500 the first country
00:24:03.560 going through
00:24:07.020 the last two years
00:24:08.300 of the two Michael's
00:24:09.880 detention.
00:24:11.700 And
00:24:12.160 therefore,
00:24:16.040 Trudeau government
00:24:16.760 has been really silent
00:24:18.280 on the issues
00:24:21.860 and delaying
00:24:23.060 with the actions
00:24:24.580 to voice for
00:24:26.020 human rights
00:24:27.920 issue
00:24:28.540 and democracy
00:24:29.720 issue in Hong Kong,
00:24:30.840 human rights issue
00:24:31.540 in Xinjiang
00:24:32.640 and
00:24:33.720 issues
00:24:35.460 with Taiwan
00:24:36.500 in general.
00:24:38.320 We now
00:24:39.160 come to
00:24:40.060 a
00:24:40.860 turning point
00:24:43.340 now.
00:24:44.380 Hopefully,
00:24:45.100 that will be
00:24:45.480 a turning point
00:24:46.180 to a positive way.
00:24:48.480 And
00:24:49.040 we will see
00:24:49.760 what the
00:24:50.440 liberal government
00:24:51.480 is going to bring
00:24:52.060 to us.
00:24:52.520 Do you find,
00:24:54.540 Professor,
00:24:54.980 that China's
00:24:55.680 bad behavior
00:24:56.740 tends to
00:24:58.040 immunize it
00:24:58.880 from a lot
00:24:59.440 of pushback?
00:25:00.180 Because,
00:25:00.680 as we were talking
00:25:01.520 about in the last
00:25:02.160 few moments,
00:25:02.960 a lot of people
00:25:03.600 will say,
00:25:04.000 well,
00:25:04.280 you know,
00:25:04.540 yeah,
00:25:04.680 we don't like
00:25:05.120 that China's
00:25:05.640 doing X
00:25:06.220 in Taiwan
00:25:06.880 or Y
00:25:07.520 with the two
00:25:08.000 Michaels,
00:25:08.720 but,
00:25:09.080 well,
00:25:09.200 we don't want
00:25:09.600 them to do
00:25:09.860 more of it,
00:25:10.340 so we're not
00:25:10.720 going to say
00:25:11.080 anything about it.
00:25:13.100 China's market
00:25:14.020 to many
00:25:15.040 countries and
00:25:16.280 world
00:25:16.600 still want
00:25:17.720 very important
00:25:18.400 factors
00:25:19.180 to influence
00:25:20.340 their foreign
00:25:21.340 policies.
00:25:22.520 But in addition
00:25:23.560 to that,
00:25:24.620 if you look
00:25:25.100 at the reality,
00:25:26.100 actually,
00:25:26.580 China doesn't
00:25:27.060 have many
00:25:27.620 allies
00:25:28.180 around the
00:25:29.180 world.
00:25:30.240 And given
00:25:30.940 the current
00:25:31.420 situation
00:25:31.920 between
00:25:32.240 United States
00:25:33.180 and China,
00:25:34.660 I think
00:25:35.060 it's very
00:25:35.400 important
00:25:35.780 for Canada
00:25:36.520 to stand
00:25:37.680 on a free
00:25:39.160 country side.
00:25:41.860 And then
00:25:42.140 we should
00:25:42.620 unite all
00:25:43.880 the like-minded
00:25:44.680 countries
00:25:45.440 and then
00:25:46.340 to work
00:25:46.980 together.
00:25:47.800 And one
00:25:48.200 of the most
00:25:48.700 important
00:25:49.040 things,
00:25:49.420 I guess,
00:25:49.840 would be
00:25:50.160 like Mr.
00:25:51.220 Cooper
00:25:51.480 ever
00:25:51.860 introduced
00:25:52.360 the
00:25:52.800 Canada-Taiwan
00:25:55.020 Relations
00:25:55.660 Framework Act.
00:25:57.040 Of course,
00:25:57.600 because of
00:25:58.120 the election
00:25:58.580 it has been
00:25:59.480 stopped.
00:26:00.640 But it would
00:26:01.220 be much
00:26:01.560 appreciated
00:26:02.520 if Mr.
00:26:03.520 Cooper
00:26:03.740 can bring
00:26:04.240 back.
00:26:05.060 Another
00:26:05.420 thing I guess
00:26:06.020 which is also
00:26:06.880 important
00:26:07.360 is about
00:26:08.040 CPTPP.
00:26:10.120 And I guess
00:26:11.600 Canada
00:26:12.660 can work
00:26:14.240 to welcome
00:26:16.300 Taiwan
00:26:16.800 to join
00:26:17.320 CPTPP
00:26:18.700 and
00:26:19.500 to form
00:26:20.700 a trade
00:26:23.420 zone
00:26:23.880 which
00:26:24.320 allows
00:26:25.200 the
00:26:25.420 like-minded
00:26:26.020 country
00:26:26.580 to trade
00:26:27.160 with each
00:26:27.880 other
00:26:28.200 without
00:26:28.860 worrying
00:26:29.360 too much.
00:26:30.800 And lastly,
00:26:31.960 that is
00:26:32.560 important
00:26:33.000 is
00:26:33.860 the
00:26:34.700 alliance
00:26:37.040 between
00:26:37.460 the United
00:26:38.360 States,
00:26:39.740 United Kingdom
00:26:40.560 and Australia
00:26:41.440 to form
00:26:42.020 AUKUS
00:26:42.560 and
00:26:43.460 a few
00:26:44.480 weeks ago.
00:26:46.080 And
00:26:46.260 of course,
00:26:47.200 I understand
00:26:47.720 that Canada
00:26:48.340 we didn't
00:26:49.900 join that.
00:26:51.080 But given
00:26:51.700 the Indo-Pacific
00:26:52.720 region probably
00:26:53.500 will become
00:26:54.040 the most
00:26:54.880 controversial
00:26:55.320 region
00:26:56.080 around the
00:26:56.980 world.
00:26:57.900 And I
00:26:58.560 think Canada
00:26:59.200 need to
00:26:59.680 be prepared.
00:27:01.460 We have
00:27:02.060 to prepare
00:27:02.700 to join
00:27:03.860 the
00:27:04.780 like-minded
00:27:05.420 country
00:27:06.100 and
00:27:07.100 to
00:27:08.140 deal
00:27:10.300 with
00:27:10.720 anything
00:27:11.700 that could
00:27:12.240 happen
00:27:12.740 in the
00:27:13.420 next few
00:27:13.900 years.
00:27:16.100 When we
00:27:16.860 hear
00:27:17.140 discussions
00:27:17.900 about
00:27:18.300 aggression
00:27:18.680 in the
00:27:19.120 South
00:27:19.340 China Sea
00:27:20.100 and
00:27:20.480 sanctions
00:27:21.000 and all
00:27:21.480 of these
00:27:21.760 very
00:27:22.000 big
00:27:22.280 picture
00:27:22.580 things,
00:27:23.320 it's
00:27:23.760 very
00:27:24.020 abstract
00:27:24.460 to a
00:27:25.000 lot
00:27:25.200 of
00:27:25.460 ordinary
00:27:25.940 people.
00:27:26.620 And let
00:27:26.880 me ask
00:27:27.280 you,
00:27:27.980 Yuen,
00:27:28.180 on this,
00:27:29.520 what can
00:27:30.100 ordinary
00:27:31.040 people do?
00:27:31.880 What can
00:27:32.380 people do
00:27:32.880 on an
00:27:33.220 individual
00:27:33.700 level
00:27:34.240 to support
00:27:34.980 Taiwan
00:27:35.400 and support
00:27:36.480 the Taiwanese
00:27:37.260 pursuit of
00:27:38.160 independence?
00:27:40.720 Well,
00:27:42.560 I'm
00:27:44.800 working on
00:27:45.360 this as
00:27:45.820 well to
00:27:46.420 get the
00:27:46.920 people
00:27:47.320 to develop
00:27:48.800 the interest
00:27:49.580 to get
00:27:50.220 to know
00:27:50.600 Taiwan.
00:27:51.680 And I
00:27:52.020 know
00:27:52.240 Taiwan
00:27:52.700 government,
00:27:53.380 Taiwan,
00:27:53.920 these people
00:27:54.420 are working
00:27:55.020 on their
00:27:55.460 behalf
00:27:56.040 to generate
00:27:57.720 the interest
00:27:58.780 and in
00:27:59.920 general
00:28:00.300 in a
00:28:01.440 positive
00:28:01.820 and
00:28:02.820 both
00:28:03.740 way
00:28:04.500 to
00:28:05.100 reintroduce
00:28:08.320 Taiwan
00:28:08.740 and to
00:28:09.520 establish
00:28:10.040 the
00:28:10.340 connection
00:28:10.780 between
00:28:11.260 people
00:28:11.780 to
00:28:12.000 people.
00:28:13.760 And
00:28:14.020 people
00:28:16.980 generally
00:28:17.860 understand
00:28:19.160 and
00:28:19.740 agreed
00:28:20.500 that
00:28:21.240 Taiwan
00:28:23.640 has been
00:28:24.660 demoted
00:28:26.560 and disregarded
00:28:28.040 in terms
00:28:29.940 of personal
00:28:30.520 level
00:28:30.920 and the
00:28:31.380 country
00:28:31.680 level.
00:28:33.700 They feel
00:28:34.960 helpless
00:28:35.540 as well.
00:28:36.240 when you
00:28:38.280 talk about
00:28:38.840 ordinary
00:28:39.300 people,
00:28:40.320 each of
00:28:40.820 them
00:28:41.000 think
00:28:41.360 they are
00:28:41.740 just
00:28:41.960 one.
00:28:42.480 How much
00:28:43.000 power
00:28:43.320 they can
00:28:43.760 influence
00:28:44.380 their
00:28:45.400 government
00:28:45.780 official
00:28:46.400 or
00:28:46.940 even
00:28:47.560 speaking
00:28:48.160 China.
00:28:50.600 So
00:28:51.000 it seems
00:28:52.280 very small
00:28:53.100 but
00:28:53.880 we've got
00:28:54.700 to look
00:28:54.980 at this
00:28:55.300 way
00:28:55.580 that
00:28:55.940 we
00:28:56.280 are
00:28:57.100 a society
00:28:58.580 of
00:28:59.020 a community
00:28:59.820 and
00:29:00.300 like
00:29:00.540 working
00:29:00.980 with
00:29:01.320 like-minded
00:29:01.920 country.
00:29:03.960 So
00:29:04.220 it's
00:29:04.940 a small
00:29:05.400 step
00:29:05.760 that
00:29:06.100 for
00:29:06.580 ordinary
00:29:07.160 people
00:29:07.700 to
00:29:08.220 connect
00:29:09.480 with
00:29:09.920 their
00:29:10.360 representative
00:29:12.260 in the
00:29:13.100 area
00:29:13.900 and
00:29:14.840 to push
00:29:15.580 the party
00:29:16.240 in the
00:29:16.700 country
00:29:17.040 to
00:29:17.600 work
00:29:18.260 on
00:29:18.560 the
00:29:18.740 actions
00:29:19.360 and
00:29:20.260 for
00:29:20.480 the
00:29:20.660 long
00:29:20.860 run.
00:29:21.680 And
00:29:21.720 we're
00:29:22.920 not only
00:29:23.520 talking
00:29:23.860 about
00:29:24.380 favoring
00:29:25.220 for
00:29:25.560 Taiwan.
00:29:27.220 No,
00:29:27.620 we're
00:29:27.960 talking
00:29:28.160 about
00:29:28.480 in the
00:29:28.820 long
00:29:29.020 run
00:29:29.300 for
00:29:29.780 security
00:29:30.340 for
00:29:30.800 economic
00:29:31.320 reason
00:29:31.880 and
00:29:32.740 for
00:29:33.340 the
00:29:33.700 defense
00:29:34.660 reason
00:29:35.160 and
00:29:35.600 for
00:29:36.100 the
00:29:36.520 general
00:29:36.800 good
00:29:37.240 that
00:29:37.480 we
00:29:37.620 want
00:29:37.880 to
00:29:38.020 have
00:29:38.220 a
00:29:38.400 peaceful
00:29:38.840 relationship
00:29:40.460 and
00:29:40.740 workable
00:29:41.220 relationship
00:29:41.860 with
00:29:42.300 China.
00:29:43.560 We're
00:29:43.920 talking
00:29:44.100 about
00:29:44.440 this.
00:29:45.720 And
00:29:45.840 so
00:29:46.280 country
00:29:47.520 government
00:29:48.280 need to
00:29:48.820 develop
00:29:49.220 a long
00:29:49.760 term
00:29:50.000 strategy
00:29:50.560 that
00:29:51.000 we
00:29:51.400 cannot
00:29:52.200 back
00:29:52.520 down.
00:29:53.800 We
00:29:54.160 could
00:29:54.820 take
00:29:56.300 in
00:29:56.520 a
00:29:57.040 slower
00:29:57.420 step
00:29:58.120 when
00:29:58.840 things
00:29:59.220 come
00:29:59.620 difficult
00:30:00.700 but
00:30:01.480 when
00:30:01.800 the
00:30:03.860 big
00:30:05.480 leap
00:30:05.900 can
00:30:06.400 be
00:30:06.680 put
00:30:07.020 forward
00:30:07.500 we
00:30:08.060 have
00:30:08.260 to
00:30:08.360 be
00:30:08.520 prepared
00:30:08.860 for
00:30:09.060 that.
00:30:10.160 And
00:30:10.280 I
00:30:10.540 will
00:30:10.860 prefer
00:30:11.420 the
00:30:11.900 countries
00:30:12.920 having
00:30:13.320 their
00:30:13.560 bucket
00:30:13.860 list
00:30:14.200 of
00:30:14.400 what
00:30:14.520 they
00:30:14.680 can
00:30:14.840 do
00:30:15.220 to
00:30:16.080 strengthen
00:30:17.220 their
00:30:17.840 ties
00:30:18.600 and
00:30:19.260 economic
00:30:19.980 trade
00:30:21.720 relations
00:30:22.360 with
00:30:22.720 Taiwan.
00:30:24.140 And
00:30:24.380 also
00:30:25.520 I
00:30:25.940 would
00:30:26.200 also
00:30:26.580 like
00:30:26.920 to
00:30:27.300 see
00:30:27.780 how
00:30:28.160 this
00:30:28.520 works.
00:30:29.480 When
00:30:29.740 China
00:30:30.460 put
00:30:32.940 in
00:30:33.100 assault
00:30:33.620 to
00:30:33.920 Taiwan
00:30:34.500 if
00:30:37.120 there
00:30:37.360 is
00:30:37.480 a
00:30:37.600 possibility
00:30:38.100 to
00:30:38.560 play
00:30:38.900 the
00:30:40.100 other
00:30:40.320 way
00:30:40.540 wrong
00:30:40.880 that
00:30:41.140 we
00:30:41.440 could
00:30:41.900 in
00:30:42.200 terms
00:30:42.580 of
00:30:44.160 keeping
00:30:44.460 silence
00:30:45.100 we
00:30:45.780 should
00:30:46.520 take
00:30:46.980 a
00:30:47.200 step
00:30:47.500 forward
00:30:48.200 to
00:30:48.700 deliver
00:30:50.240 our
00:30:51.500 message
00:30:52.340 and
00:30:52.780 to
00:30:53.260 reach
00:30:54.580 our
00:30:54.840 hand
00:30:55.100 to
00:30:55.280 Taiwan
00:30:55.800 various
00:30:56.760 tiny
00:30:57.420 baby
00:30:58.400 steps
00:30:58.960 since
00:30:59.440 us
00:31:00.000 few
00:31:01.000 months
00:31:01.320 ago
00:31:01.640 when
00:31:02.040 in
00:31:03.400 March
00:31:03.720 this
00:31:04.040 year
00:31:04.260 when
00:31:04.620 China
00:31:05.220 banned
00:31:06.120 the
00:31:06.820 pineapple
00:31:09.020 fruit
00:31:09.660 import
00:31:10.860 from
00:31:12.120 Taiwan
00:31:12.520 to
00:31:12.740 China
00:31:13.060 I
00:31:14.980 can
00:31:15.620 see
00:31:15.900 trade
00:31:16.300 office
00:31:16.680 in
00:31:16.960 Taipei
00:31:17.520 posting
00:31:19.120 pictures
00:31:20.400 of
00:31:21.340 themselves
00:31:21.940 buying
00:31:22.600 more
00:31:23.280 of
00:31:23.700 and
00:31:24.100 consuming
00:31:24.520 more
00:31:24.880 of
00:31:25.020 the
00:31:25.140 Taiwanese
00:31:25.660 pineapples
00:31:26.860 which is
00:31:28.060 very
00:31:28.460 unusual
00:31:29.340 I would
00:31:29.980 say
00:31:30.320 in my
00:31:31.120 observation
00:31:31.560 the
00:31:34.820 trade
00:31:35.700 office
00:31:36.260 not only
00:31:36.960 taken
00:31:37.300 out
00:31:37.660 to
00:31:38.060 the
00:31:38.980 social
00:31:39.760 medias
00:31:40.420 and
00:31:41.460 it
00:31:43.920 generated
00:31:44.440 the
00:31:44.860 media
00:31:45.540 in the
00:31:46.040 circle
00:31:46.340 to
00:31:46.860 reporting
00:31:48.220 this
00:31:48.640 and
00:31:49.540 to
00:31:50.940 reach
00:31:51.240 out
00:31:51.420 the
00:31:51.540 ordinary
00:31:51.940 people
00:31:52.420 yeah
00:31:53.260 but
00:31:53.780 the
00:31:53.980 similar
00:31:54.200 thing
00:31:54.500 same
00:31:54.760 as
00:31:55.080 the
00:31:55.400 canola
00:31:55.900 oil
00:31:56.800 band
00:31:57.400 and
00:31:58.040 beef
00:31:58.980 and
00:31:59.220 all
00:31:59.480 the
00:31:59.640 other
00:32:00.120 agricultural
00:32:01.780 product
00:32:02.380 band
00:32:02.800 in
00:32:03.120 Canada
00:32:03.480 and
00:32:04.220 other
00:32:04.720 trade
00:32:05.760 band
00:32:06.260 in
00:32:06.880 Australia
00:32:07.720 so
00:32:08.420 we
00:32:08.800 all
00:32:09.240 each
00:32:09.600 suffer
00:32:10.100 the
00:32:10.380 same
00:32:10.620 thing
00:32:10.960 from
00:32:11.260 China
00:32:13.260 for
00:32:13.620 no
00:32:13.860 reason
00:32:14.280 for
00:32:15.000 unforeseeable
00:32:16.760 and
00:32:17.280 irregular
00:32:18.380 reason
00:32:18.920 for
00:32:19.360 no
00:32:19.580 reason
00:32:19.940 and
00:32:20.660 we
00:32:20.840 should
00:32:20.980 get
00:32:21.140 together
00:32:21.640 and
00:32:22.160 even
00:32:22.360 just
00:32:22.640 tiny
00:32:22.960 little
00:32:23.220 steps
00:32:23.720 we
00:32:24.120 could
00:32:24.340 still
00:32:24.640 inch
00:32:25.000 out
00:32:25.460 to
00:32:26.260 deliver
00:32:27.080 a
00:32:27.340 positive
00:32:27.700 message
00:32:28.360 that
00:32:28.600 we
00:32:28.800 are
00:32:28.940 ready
00:32:29.260 to
00:32:29.980 for
00:32:31.680 a
00:32:31.800 bigger
00:32:31.920 action
00:32:32.360 that
00:32:33.520 is
00:32:33.620 very
00:32:33.820 well
00:32:34.100 said
00:32:34.480 you
00:32:34.660 and
00:32:34.880 I
00:32:35.300 should
00:32:35.600 note
00:32:35.800 when
00:32:36.020 China
00:32:36.320 does
00:32:36.660 things
00:32:37.020 like
00:32:37.320 its
00:32:37.500 actions
00:32:37.840 on
00:32:38.100 canola
00:32:38.560 and
00:32:38.860 the
00:32:39.120 pineapple
00:32:39.580 example
00:32:40.060 it
00:32:40.580 makes
00:32:40.860 it
00:32:41.020 real
00:32:41.260 for
00:32:41.480 a lot
00:32:41.780 of
00:32:41.900 individual
00:32:42.320 people
00:32:42.700 because
00:32:42.940 all
00:32:43.120 of
00:32:43.220 a
00:32:43.300 sudden
00:32:43.420 you
00:32:43.560 have
00:32:43.780 farmers
00:32:44.260 and
00:32:44.640 people
00:32:45.300 that
00:32:45.480 work
00:32:45.720 in
00:32:45.920 trade
00:32:46.340 and
00:32:46.580 shipping
00:32:46.860 that
00:32:47.100 are
00:32:47.200 affected
00:32:47.620 by
00:32:47.940 this
00:32:48.240 that
00:32:48.480 start
00:32:48.900 seeing
00:32:49.240 that
00:32:49.480 so
00:32:49.640 I'm
00:32:49.940 glad
00:32:50.140 you
00:32:50.300 shared
00:32:50.520 what
00:32:50.680 you
00:32:50.800 did
00:32:51.000 let me
00:32:51.760 turn
00:32:51.960 back
00:32:52.180 to
00:32:52.300 you
00:32:52.440 Michael
00:32:52.920 you
00:32:53.180 introduced
00:32:53.740 in
00:32:54.080 June
00:32:54.520 the
00:32:54.860 Canada
00:32:55.380 Taiwan
00:32:55.900 Relations
00:32:56.460 Framework
00:32:57.020 Act
00:32:57.300 as we
00:32:57.620 know
00:32:57.820 the
00:32:58.460 parliamentary
00:32:59.040 session
00:32:59.520 didn't
00:32:59.800 last
00:33:00.100 too
00:33:00.280 long
00:33:00.640 after
00:33:00.960 that
00:33:01.260 and
00:33:01.440 we
00:33:01.700 ended
00:33:01.880 up
00:33:02.080 in
00:33:02.180 an
00:33:02.320 election
00:33:02.660 before
00:33:03.120 your
00:33:03.900 bill
00:33:04.140 could
00:33:04.540 be
00:33:05.040 advanced
00:33:05.560 any
00:33:05.860 further
00:33:06.220 I
00:33:06.920 assume
00:33:07.280 you
00:33:07.460 would
00:33:07.580 like
00:33:07.780 to
00:33:07.900 do
00:33:08.040 something
00:33:08.340 else
00:33:08.640 in
00:33:08.920 the
00:33:09.060 next
00:33:09.280 parliament
00:33:09.640 very
00:33:09.940 similar
00:33:10.380 let
00:33:11.120 me
00:33:11.220 ask
00:33:11.500 you
00:33:11.660 also
00:33:12.040 how
00:33:12.520 was
00:33:12.740 that
00:33:12.940 received
00:33:13.640 just
00:33:14.200 casually
00:33:15.240 and
00:33:15.600 personally
00:33:16.720 among
00:33:17.040 your
00:33:17.260 colleagues
00:33:17.740 of
00:33:17.940 different
00:33:18.220 parties
00:33:18.600 was
00:33:18.920 there
00:33:19.100 broad
00:33:19.640 cross
00:33:23.180 I'm
00:33:23.560 hopeful
00:33:24.040 that
00:33:24.620 there
00:33:24.840 will
00:33:25.080 be
00:33:25.340 cross
00:33:25.960 party
00:33:26.800 support
00:33:27.440 for
00:33:28.020 what
00:33:28.640 is
00:33:28.980 a
00:33:29.540 modest
00:33:30.060 but
00:33:30.880 important
00:33:31.520 step
00:33:32.120 and
00:33:32.880 it
00:33:33.020 is
00:33:33.380 an
00:33:33.940 initiative
00:33:34.320 that
00:33:34.580 I
00:33:34.780 do
00:33:35.020 intend
00:33:35.400 to
00:33:35.600 take
00:33:35.860 up
00:33:36.200 in
00:33:37.120 this
00:33:37.520 new
00:33:38.000 parliament
00:33:38.480 but
00:33:39.280 very
00:33:39.560 simply
00:33:40.120 the
00:33:40.760 legislation
00:33:41.600 that I
00:33:41.920 put
00:33:42.140 forward
00:33:42.560 the
00:33:42.880 Canada
00:33:43.360 Taiwan
00:33:44.080 Relations
00:33:45.160 Framework
00:33:45.760 Act
00:33:46.160 provides
00:33:48.480 for
00:33:49.000 a
00:33:49.480 mechanism
00:33:50.120 a
00:33:50.360 framework
00:33:50.820 by
00:33:51.240 which
00:33:51.540 to
00:33:51.780 conduct
00:33:52.280 relations
00:33:53.080 between
00:33:53.500 Canada
00:33:54.020 and
00:33:54.320 Taiwan
00:33:54.800 absent
00:33:55.400 formal
00:33:56.100 diplomatic
00:33:56.900 relations
00:33:57.780 including
00:33:58.380 in
00:33:58.700 areas
00:33:59.400 of
00:33:59.680 cultural
00:34:00.420 legal
00:34:01.320 and
00:34:01.760 economic
00:34:02.240 affairs
00:34:02.840 among
00:34:03.600 the
00:34:04.020 measures
00:34:04.920 that it
00:34:05.600 would
00:34:05.820 enact
00:34:06.820 is to
00:34:07.140 codify
00:34:07.720 Canada's
00:34:09.060 support
00:34:09.500 for
00:34:10.540 Taiwan's
00:34:11.340 participation
00:34:12.060 in
00:34:12.620 international
00:34:13.400 fora
00:34:14.160 including
00:34:15.100 at
00:34:15.680 WHO
00:34:16.480 and
00:34:17.500 at
00:34:17.840 ICAO
00:34:18.460 it
00:34:19.160 would
00:34:19.440 allow
00:34:20.000 the
00:34:20.980 Taiwan
00:34:21.660 representative
00:34:22.800 office
00:34:23.240 to
00:34:23.400 be
00:34:23.520 called
00:34:23.820 back
00:34:24.200 instead
00:34:24.860 of
00:34:25.040 the
00:34:25.200 Taipei
00:34:25.800 economic
00:34:26.640 and
00:34:26.900 cultural
00:34:27.320 office
00:34:27.760 recognizing
00:34:28.500 that
00:34:28.900 that
00:34:29.120 diplomatic
00:34:30.780 office
00:34:31.380 represents
00:34:31.900 the
00:34:32.200 government
00:34:32.480 of
00:34:32.780 Taiwan
00:34:33.140 and
00:34:34.020 the
00:34:34.460 people
00:34:34.860 of
00:34:35.280 Taiwan
00:34:35.780 it
00:34:36.660 would
00:34:36.940 provide
00:34:37.760 that
00:34:37.980 Canada
00:34:38.360 could
00:34:38.700 enter
00:34:39.040 into
00:34:39.460 legal
00:34:40.160 agreements
00:34:40.740 with
00:34:41.140 Taiwan
00:34:41.740 so
00:34:42.660 that
00:34:42.820 we
00:34:42.960 could
00:34:43.300 negotiate
00:34:44.020 on
00:34:44.620 an
00:34:44.940 upfront
00:34:45.340 basis
00:34:46.300 to
00:34:47.180 advance
00:34:47.680 things
00:34:48.040 like
00:34:48.420 a
00:34:48.820 foreign
00:34:49.120 investment
00:34:49.740 promotion
00:34:50.720 FIPA
00:34:51.400 agreement
00:34:52.200 the next
00:34:52.680 step
00:34:52.980 towards
00:34:53.480 a
00:34:53.780 free
00:34:54.000 trade
00:34:54.260 agreement
00:34:54.660 and
00:34:55.760 it
00:34:56.200 would
00:34:56.360 recognize
00:34:56.980 in
00:34:57.900 Canadian
00:34:58.280 law
00:34:58.800 that
00:34:59.120 Taiwan
00:34:59.460 is
00:35:00.540 an
00:35:00.980 entity
00:35:01.380 recognizing
00:35:03.160 that
00:35:03.760 for all
00:35:04.180 intents and
00:35:04.800 purposes
00:35:05.220 absent
00:35:06.060 common
00:35:07.260 recognition
00:35:08.040 Taiwan
00:35:08.780 is
00:35:09.360 effectively
00:35:10.380 a
00:35:10.660 sovereign
00:35:10.940 state
00:35:11.420 very
00:35:13.700 well
00:35:14.020 said
00:35:14.340 and
00:35:14.460 I'll
00:35:14.540 give
00:35:14.680 you
00:35:14.780 the
00:35:14.920 last
00:35:15.160 word
00:35:15.440 on
00:35:15.760 this
00:35:16.040 Professor
00:35:16.640 Shin
00:35:16.940 what
00:35:17.520 would
00:35:17.720 you
00:35:17.840 like
00:35:18.060 to
00:35:18.180 see
00:35:18.320 the
00:35:18.480 next
00:35:18.720 step
00:35:19.020 be
00:35:19.240 from
00:35:19.540 a
00:35:19.880 Canadian
00:35:20.260 government
00:35:20.760 or
00:35:21.080 from
00:35:21.360 any
00:35:21.520 other
00:35:21.740 government
00:35:22.080 what
00:35:22.320 do
00:35:22.540 you
00:35:22.620 think
00:35:22.780 is
00:35:22.880 the
00:35:23.040 first
00:35:23.720 thing
00:35:23.980 that
00:35:24.140 should
00:35:24.300 happen
00:35:24.660 if
00:35:24.980 we
00:35:25.140 pursue
00:35:25.500 the
00:35:25.800 ideal
00:35:26.380 relationship
00:35:26.980 with
00:35:27.260 Taiwan
00:35:27.620 moving
00:35:28.060 forward
00:35:28.520 I
00:35:29.460 think
00:35:29.600 the
00:35:29.760 first
00:35:30.000 thing
00:35:30.260 the
00:35:30.460 government
00:35:30.720 should
00:35:30.980 do
00:35:31.180 is
00:35:31.300 ban
00:35:31.800 Huawei
00:35:32.120 5G
00:35:32.880 A
00:35:33.580 lot
00:35:33.820 of
00:35:33.980 Canadians
00:35:34.400 we
00:35:34.800 don't
00:35:41.420 you
00:35:41.560 must
00:35:41.860 understand
00:35:42.440 Huawei
00:35:43.000 is
00:35:43.500 not
00:35:43.880 a
00:35:44.000 private
00:35:44.420 enterprise
00:35:45.120 as
00:35:45.540 it
00:35:45.800 look
00:35:46.020 like
00:35:46.400 in
00:35:47.280 reality
00:35:47.920 in
00:35:48.760 such
00:35:49.120 a
00:35:49.320 sensitive
00:35:50.140 industry
00:35:50.780 like
00:35:51.240 telecom
00:35:51.940 in
00:35:52.460 China
00:35:52.840 it's
00:35:53.220 impossible
00:35:53.800 to
00:35:54.200 have
00:35:54.540 any
00:35:55.100 room
00:35:55.460 for
00:35:55.680 private
00:35:56.060 business
00:35:56.520 Huawei
00:35:57.400 actually
00:35:58.080 is
00:35:58.480 based
00:35:58.840 on
00:35:59.040 military
00:35:59.540 PLC
00:36:00.740 to
00:36:01.220 fund
00:36:01.540 it
00:36:01.820 but
00:36:02.300 most
00:36:02.500 Canadians
00:36:02.840 we
00:36:03.060 don't
00:36:03.260 understand
00:36:03.700 I
00:36:04.180 mean
00:36:04.320 like
00:36:04.520 when
00:36:05.120 you
00:36:05.300 try
00:36:05.740 to
00:36:05.940 engage
00:36:06.320 with
00:36:06.560 China
00:36:07.260 you
00:36:07.820 should
00:36:08.200 not
00:36:08.620 base
00:36:09.020 on
00:36:09.320 a
00:36:09.800 common
00:36:10.320 framework
00:36:11.000 you
00:36:11.720 usually
00:36:12.240 use
00:36:12.640 in
00:36:12.780 Canada
00:36:13.160 you
00:36:13.760 have
00:36:14.160 to
00:36:14.300 really
00:36:14.540 understand
00:36:15.160 China's
00:36:15.820 regime
00:36:16.260 and
00:36:16.820 then
00:36:17.100 you
00:36:17.240 know
00:36:17.440 how
00:36:17.620 to
00:36:17.760 deal
00:36:17.960 with
00:36:18.160 Chinese
00:36:18.800 well
00:36:20.680 very
00:36:20.920 well
00:36:21.140 said
00:36:21.340 and
00:36:21.440 we
00:36:21.540 could
00:36:21.660 do
00:36:21.780 a
00:36:21.880 whole
00:36:22.060 other
00:36:22.360 panel
00:36:22.820 show
00:36:23.120 on
00:36:23.460 Huawei
00:36:23.800 which
00:36:24.060 we
00:36:24.200 might
00:36:24.380 do
00:36:24.580 so
00:36:24.760 thank
00:36:25.000 you
00:36:25.100 for
00:36:25.240 the
00:36:25.380 inspiration
00:36:25.900 York
00:36:26.640 University
00:36:27.280 professor
00:36:27.740 and
00:36:28.160 Taiwan
00:36:28.640 affairs
00:36:29.060 expert
00:36:29.520 Professor
00:36:30.060 Jung
00:36:30.520 Chen
00:36:30.760 Shin
00:36:31.060 Edmonton
00:36:32.120 MP
00:36:32.620 or
00:36:32.900 St.
00:36:33.120 Albert
00:36:33.400 Edmonton
00:36:33.900 MP
00:36:34.260 I
00:36:34.440 should
00:36:34.600 say
00:36:34.800 Michael
00:36:35.120 Cooper
00:36:35.500 and
00:36:36.120 also
00:36:36.460 Taiwan
00:36:41.000 thoroughly
00:36:41.320 enlightening
00:36:42.100 discussion
00:36:42.560 I
00:36:42.720 appreciate
00:36:43.020 it
00:36:43.580 thanks
00:36:44.480 thank you
00:36:45.000 thanks
00:36:47.080 for
00:36:47.240 listening
00:36:47.540 to the
00:36:47.860 Andrew
00:36:48.140 Lawton
00:36:48.460 show
00:36:48.740 support
00:36:49.320 the
00:36:49.480 program
00:36:49.800 by
00:36:50.020 donating
00:36:50.380 to
00:36:50.600 true
00:36:50.760 north
00:36:51.040 at
00:36:51.300 www.tnc.news