Juno News - January 25, 2024


Candice Bergen speaks out on Emergencies Act ‘unconstitutional’ ruling


Episode Stats


Length

12 minutes

Words per minute

183.92523

Word count

2,296

Sentence count

114

Harmful content

Misogyny

2

sentences flagged

Hate speech

1

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

Candace Bergen joins me on the phone to talk about the Freedom Convoy, and why she and her caucus were so firmly opposed to the government's decision to invoke the Emergency Emergencies Act in order to force truckers to return home.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 I wanted to switch to the political side of this for a moment here, because one of the
00:00:13.680 things that's easy to forget for a lot of people is how much of a tectonic shift in politics there
00:00:19.660 was at the time of the Freedom Convoy. And we had Aaron O'Toole, who was the leader of the
00:00:25.480 conservative, well, leader is questionable, but who nominally led the Conservative Party of Canada
00:00:31.000 at the time, who was very weak on the Freedom Convoy, would not say whether he was going to
00:00:37.200 meet with the truckers, wouldn't say if he was supporting it, would say that we need to get more
00:00:42.000 truckers vaccinated, and that's how we're going to solve the trucker vaccine mandate. And his lack
00:00:46.460 of support for the Freedom Convoy was a big reason that Aaron O'Toole was ousted. And the rapid pace
00:00:51.980 at which things then evolved, with his replacement with Candace Bergen, who was the interim leader,
00:00:58.080 had been O'Toole's deputy leader, but broke ranks with him to support the Freedom Convoy in a
00:01:03.680 statement that was published, I can't remember the exact night, I believe it was on the eve of the
00:01:07.940 convoy's arrival in Ottawa, if memory serves. And then Pierre Polyev, who famously turned around on
00:01:14.440 the steps on the way into that one fateful caucus meeting, and said that, well, in his own way, that
00:01:19.520 he was supportive of the convoy, and wasn't going to let the media malign those who were individual
00:01:24.680 bad actors, because he said in aggregate, this is a peaceful protest. Well, Candace Bergen, who is now 0.99
00:01:30.320 retired from politics, had a line on X, formerly Twitter, that was actually somewhat moving. She
00:01:38.720 says, I recall vividly and with pride when our Conservative caucus made the collective decision
00:01:43.280 to oppose the Emergencies Act being used against peace-loving Canadians protesting liberal overreach,
00:01:49.320 we decided in that moment that we wanted to be on the right side of history, and that we are.
00:01:55.680 Candace Bergen, I have plucked her out of political retirement for the next 10 minutes or so. She 1.00
00:02:01.000 joins me on the line now. Candace, wonderful to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on today.
00:02:05.080 Great to see you again. Thanks for asking me.
00:02:08.840 You had, I'll say it was actually quite a moving post you made to social media yesterday,
00:02:13.720 where you talked about how proud you were when the Conservative caucus banded together and decided to
00:02:20.240 oppose the Emergencies Act. And I've made the point in the past that this is not, you could oppose the
00:02:25.300 convoy and also oppose the Emergencies Act, although I know many of the people in your party and yourself
00:02:30.520 were supportive of this protest and large parts of it. But why were you and your caucus so firmly
00:02:37.880 against the Emergencies Act when this first came up?
00:02:40.600 Well, Andrew, you have to remember the context of the moments that we were in. And you're right,
00:02:46.200 many of us supported the reasons that the convoy were there, that the people were there. Many of
00:02:51.640 those people were our constituents, but we also knew that they needed to head off the streets,
00:02:56.920 they needed to go home. That was our wish. But we wanted the Prime Minister to listen to them.
00:03:02.520 That did not seem to be happening. So when the Emergencies Act was invoked, we had to make a
00:03:08.200 decision and there was a lot of pressure. You'll remember the media, the mainstream media, not all
00:03:13.080 media, but most of the media was saying this was the right thing to do and we had to support it. And so
00:03:18.840 we came together as a caucus, which is what I find these MPs that I've been so privileged to have worked
00:03:24.600 with. We do so well. We came together, we had a really good conversation in our caucus,
00:03:31.240 heard all sides and we heard, should we support it? Should we be fully against it? Should we ask
00:03:36.840 for an amendment? And, you know, without breaking any kind of cabinet or caucus confidentiality,
00:03:43.080 I can just tell you what an incredible conversation and discussion we had as a caucus back
00:03:49.800 in February 2022, talking about freedom, talking about our constituents and what we needed to do
00:03:57.480 as parliamentarians. And we talked about history and where we wanted to be when all of this was said
00:04:03.240 and done in five years, 10 years, 50 years. And we decided overwhelmingly and we were very proud and
00:04:11.480 very strongly supporting working and fighting and speaking against the Emergencies Act.
00:04:18.760 That history aspect is incredibly important. I made the point a while back on my show that,
00:04:23.160 you know, at one point, William Lyon McKenzie was a traitor who was in exile and then you fast forward
00:04:28.200 a decade and he's a member of parliament. I mean, things can change. And with the benefit of hindsight,
00:04:33.000 even the judge said this in the ruling yesterday, you can get a more full picture of things. And
00:04:37.560 that seems to be happening here as well. We're in the moment. You had a lot of anger, of course,
00:04:42.840 in many directions. But the further away we get from this, that there's this surreal aspect when you
00:04:47.720 think, did the government actually freeze people's bank accounts? And that was the Emergencies Act.
00:04:53.560 That was what they did here. So when you talk about being on the right side of history, I know it's
00:04:58.120 thankless being in politics and you had to bear a lot of the criticism from the media and the left for
00:05:03.480 this. But I do think you're going to get that in the end. Well, you know, and that's gratifying,
00:05:09.000 absolutely. But what I'm thinking about today, and my heart just goes out to the people,
00:05:13.320 the people who are still suffering because they were part of that convoy, they supported the convoy.
00:05:19.400 The fact is that the government's position on the protesters, most of the media's false betrayal
00:05:25.880 or portrayal of what happened in Ottawa have really set a lot of Canadians who were not in Ottawa
00:05:32.920 against the protesters. And, you know, I know even when I would go home and talk to people and I would
00:05:38.200 say, listen, yes, they need to leave the streets of Ottawa, but these people are happy. They are
00:05:43.240 peaceful. You know, you look at the protests that are going on right now supporting Hamas and how
00:05:48.680 different those protests are being portrayed. And yet people throughout the country were being told
00:05:55.800 that these were violent, hateful protests and that the Emergencies Act had to be invoked because they
00:06:01.960 were so dangerous. These are the people, my heart goes out to the people who have been lied to by their
00:06:08.680 own government and the media, and then the people who are so falsely maligned. So, I mean, I'm really,
00:06:15.160 really proud and glad our caucus took the stand that we did. But, you know, we need to learn from
00:06:20.680 this, Andrew. And if we don't learn from this, I'm afraid that the whole agenda of wedge, stigmatize,
00:06:28.680 and divide Canadians will be won by Trudeau. If we don't learn from this, which thankfully I believe
00:06:36.120 that we are, I see what our leader Pierre Polyev is doing and caucus is doing, but I do worry about our
00:06:42.920 country as far as the media. You know, I honestly, Andrew, I'm glad that you've had me on. I would
00:06:47.880 love to ask some members of the media, you know, I was grilled by Evan Solomon. I was absolutely
00:06:53.480 grilled. How dare you not support the Emergencies Act? And how dare you support these people?
00:06:59.320 You know, what does he have to say for himself now? You know, how about some of the writers in the
00:07:04.280 Globe and Mail, for example, where's their accountability? And I feel that unless there is
00:07:09.400 some real reckoning, government will be held to account, Andrew, this government will be held
00:07:14.680 in terms of the vote, they will be held to account at some point. But there are many people, elites,
00:07:22.040 academics, you know, the Ottawa bubble, we know the Ottawa bubble. So I'm really happy, proud that we were
00:07:28.840 on the right side. I'm so proud of the caucus that I served with incredible members of parliament. But we
00:07:34.680 better learn from this. You are right. I mean, the media malfeasance throughout the entire protest,
00:07:39.960 and I mean, I'd say the entire COVID era was quite something. I mean, there was one Globe and
00:07:44.600 Mail reporter that posted online that there was a wrecking ball outside Trudeau's office, but it was
00:07:49.560 actually the the weight holding the Canadian flag there. That was, you know, like the size of, you know,
00:07:54.440 my fist or something. And then you also had CBC musing that this was all some foreign Russian
00:07:59.880 financed operation. And there hasn't really been ever a reckoning, let alone an apology from these
00:08:06.440 people. And I think a lot of folks have really expected this could all just be kept in the past.
00:08:13.400 Well, and I guess in what in a sense, their reckoning has come in that most of the media in
00:08:18.680 Canada has lost all credibility, especially with, I would say 40 and under, they have no credibility. 1.00
00:08:25.800 And and so 40 and under are using their dollars to show where where they want to get their news from.
00:08:32.920 And it's not the CBCs. It's frankly not the CTVs, probably not the not none of the mainstream.
00:08:39.240 So I guess there is that reckoning. But, you know, I do I do remain hopeful, Andrew, as much as I'm
00:08:44.840 I'm frustrated as I look back. And I think that there still is a false malignment of actually peace
00:08:52.040 loving Canadians who came to Ottawa asking, just asking for their prime minister to say,
00:08:58.920 I hear you. And yes, we are not going to continue with these mandates. There will be an end. And this
00:09:04.840 is all we were asking from him. And I know this is what these Canadians were asking for. They were
00:09:09.560 falsely maligned. So although I feel I feel a real sense of injustice was done for them, I am hopeful
00:09:16.680 for our country. You know, when you speak to people one on one, people are good people in Canada, I
00:09:23.640 believe, are genuinely good people. And what they're looking for is leadership. And that's what I think
00:09:30.440 we're all hoping is going to happen after the next election. We're going to have leadership that will
00:09:36.280 make decisions in the best interest of the entire country, not just to wedge, stigmatize and divide for
00:09:43.080 his own or their own political game. Were you surprised that the NDP went the way they did on
00:09:49.080 this? You know, the party of Tommy Douglas, the party that has put itself in protests more times
00:09:55.000 than anyone could count. Were you surprised that they ended up, I mean Jagmeet Singh has tried to do
00:09:59.160 a bit of revisionism here and said it was only reluctantly, but they were quite supportive of
00:10:03.800 this at the time. And I'm curious if that, when you were in the thick of it there as leader of the
00:10:08.120 opposition, if that shocked you in any way? Well, we'd seen Jagmeet and the NDP just
00:10:14.760 placate the Liberals and basically follow along for so long. You know, Andrew, the irony is the
00:10:19.960 Liberal Party has strayed so far from what it was. It is not the party of Jean Chrétien, you know,
00:10:27.080 even Paul Martin, John Manley. It is not the party that most traditional Liberals knew. And I would say
00:10:33.880 the NDP have very much strayed from what they were as well. They are not the party of Tommy Douglas.
00:10:39.640 And, you know, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe times are changing and we're all changing and
00:10:45.000 adjusting, but the centre seems to have moved. And the people who thought we were in the centre
00:10:52.600 now see that many who were left Liberals but more in the centre have moved far, far to the left. And then
00:11:00.520 the NDP are, we don't even know where they are actually. They're not, they're left, but they're
00:11:06.120 not left in terms of supporting workers or protesters, unless the protesters are protesters that they
00:11:12.920 support. You know, they haven't. And I mean, that's the other thing we haven't even really talked about
00:11:17.400 when you compare the protesters that were in Ottawa in early 2022 versus the protests, the anti-Semitic
00:11:26.280 protests and the hateful protests we have seen going on across the country in support of the
00:11:33.080 terrorist Hamas organisation. You look at the comparative of the two and the media coverage
00:11:40.440 and the government response to the two different types of protests. So what does that tell you?
00:11:47.480 Yeah, I know that's very well said. And this court ruling is, I think, vindication for a lot of people,
00:11:52.760 yourself included. But it's not the end of the story, certainly, when you talk about the media
00:11:56.440 and the fact that the government has still been unrepentant about this. So we'll hopefully see a
00:12:01.160 similar reaction to the Court of Appeal and all the way to the Supreme Court. But I realise I've
00:12:06.520 plucked you back into the political world here. And I'm so grateful you did it, Candice Bergen. We
00:12:10.760 always get people saying how much they miss you in politics, but I hope you're doing well. And I thank you
00:12:15.160 so much for joining me today. Thanks so much, Andrew. Great to be on. Happy to do it any time.
00:12:20.200 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show. Support the programme by donating to True
00:12:25.000 North at www.tnc.news.