Juno News - January 25, 2024


Candice Bergen speaks out on Emergencies Act ‘unconstitutional’ ruling


Episode Stats

Length

12 minutes

Words per Minute

183.92523

Word Count

2,296

Sentence Count

114

Misogynist Sentences

2

Hate Speech Sentences

1


Summary


Transcript

00:00:00.000 I wanted to switch to the political side of this for a moment here, because one of the
00:00:13.680 things that's easy to forget for a lot of people is how much of a tectonic shift in politics there
00:00:19.660 was at the time of the Freedom Convoy. And we had Aaron O'Toole, who was the leader of the
00:00:25.480 conservative, well, leader is questionable, but who nominally led the Conservative Party of Canada
00:00:31.000 at the time, who was very weak on the Freedom Convoy, would not say whether he was going to
00:00:37.200 meet with the truckers, wouldn't say if he was supporting it, would say that we need to get more
00:00:42.000 truckers vaccinated, and that's how we're going to solve the trucker vaccine mandate. And his lack
00:00:46.460 of support for the Freedom Convoy was a big reason that Aaron O'Toole was ousted. And the rapid pace
00:00:51.980 at which things then evolved, with his replacement with Candace Bergen, who was the interim leader,
00:00:58.080 had been O'Toole's deputy leader, but broke ranks with him to support the Freedom Convoy in a
00:01:03.680 statement that was published, I can't remember the exact night, I believe it was on the eve of the
00:01:07.940 convoy's arrival in Ottawa, if memory serves. And then Pierre Polyev, who famously turned around on
00:01:14.440 the steps on the way into that one fateful caucus meeting, and said that, well, in his own way, that
00:01:19.520 he was supportive of the convoy, and wasn't going to let the media malign those who were individual
00:01:24.680 bad actors, because he said in aggregate, this is a peaceful protest. Well, Candace Bergen, who is now
00:01:30.320 retired from politics, had a line on X, formerly Twitter, that was actually somewhat moving. She
00:01:38.720 says, I recall vividly and with pride when our Conservative caucus made the collective decision
00:01:43.280 to oppose the Emergencies Act being used against peace-loving Canadians protesting liberal overreach,
00:01:49.320 we decided in that moment that we wanted to be on the right side of history, and that we are.
00:01:55.680 Candace Bergen, I have plucked her out of political retirement for the next 10 minutes or so. She
00:02:01.000 joins me on the line now. Candace, wonderful to talk to you. Thanks so much for coming on today.
00:02:05.080 Great to see you again. Thanks for asking me.
00:02:08.840 You had, I'll say it was actually quite a moving post you made to social media yesterday,
00:02:13.720 where you talked about how proud you were when the Conservative caucus banded together and decided to
00:02:20.240 oppose the Emergencies Act. And I've made the point in the past that this is not, you could oppose the
00:02:25.300 convoy and also oppose the Emergencies Act, although I know many of the people in your party and yourself
00:02:30.520 were supportive of this protest and large parts of it. But why were you and your caucus so firmly
00:02:37.880 against the Emergencies Act when this first came up?
00:02:40.600 Well, Andrew, you have to remember the context of the moments that we were in. And you're right,
00:02:46.200 many of us supported the reasons that the convoy were there, that the people were there. Many of
00:02:51.640 those people were our constituents, but we also knew that they needed to head off the streets,
00:02:56.920 they needed to go home. That was our wish. But we wanted the Prime Minister to listen to them.
00:03:02.520 That did not seem to be happening. So when the Emergencies Act was invoked, we had to make a
00:03:08.200 decision and there was a lot of pressure. You'll remember the media, the mainstream media, not all
00:03:13.080 media, but most of the media was saying this was the right thing to do and we had to support it. And so
00:03:18.840 we came together as a caucus, which is what I find these MPs that I've been so privileged to have worked
00:03:24.600 with. We do so well. We came together, we had a really good conversation in our caucus,
00:03:31.240 heard all sides and we heard, should we support it? Should we be fully against it? Should we ask
00:03:36.840 for an amendment? And, you know, without breaking any kind of cabinet or caucus confidentiality,
00:03:43.080 I can just tell you what an incredible conversation and discussion we had as a caucus back
00:03:49.800 in February 2022, talking about freedom, talking about our constituents and what we needed to do
00:03:57.480 as parliamentarians. And we talked about history and where we wanted to be when all of this was said
00:04:03.240 and done in five years, 10 years, 50 years. And we decided overwhelmingly and we were very proud and
00:04:11.480 very strongly supporting working and fighting and speaking against the Emergencies Act.
00:04:18.760 That history aspect is incredibly important. I made the point a while back on my show that,
00:04:23.160 you know, at one point, William Lyon McKenzie was a traitor who was in exile and then you fast forward
00:04:28.200 a decade and he's a member of parliament. I mean, things can change. And with the benefit of hindsight,
00:04:33.000 even the judge said this in the ruling yesterday, you can get a more full picture of things. And
00:04:37.560 that seems to be happening here as well. We're in the moment. You had a lot of anger, of course,
00:04:42.840 in many directions. But the further away we get from this, that there's this surreal aspect when you
00:04:47.720 think, did the government actually freeze people's bank accounts? And that was the Emergencies Act.
00:04:53.560 That was what they did here. So when you talk about being on the right side of history, I know it's
00:04:58.120 thankless being in politics and you had to bear a lot of the criticism from the media and the left for
00:05:03.480 this. But I do think you're going to get that in the end. Well, you know, and that's gratifying,
00:05:09.000 absolutely. But what I'm thinking about today, and my heart just goes out to the people,
00:05:13.320 the people who are still suffering because they were part of that convoy, they supported the convoy.
00:05:19.400 The fact is that the government's position on the protesters, most of the media's false betrayal
00:05:25.880 or portrayal of what happened in Ottawa have really set a lot of Canadians who were not in Ottawa
00:05:32.920 against the protesters. And, you know, I know even when I would go home and talk to people and I would
00:05:38.200 say, listen, yes, they need to leave the streets of Ottawa, but these people are happy. They are
00:05:43.240 peaceful. You know, you look at the protests that are going on right now supporting Hamas and how
00:05:48.680 different those protests are being portrayed. And yet people throughout the country were being told
00:05:55.800 that these were violent, hateful protests and that the Emergencies Act had to be invoked because they
00:06:01.960 were so dangerous. These are the people, my heart goes out to the people who have been lied to by their
00:06:08.680 own government and the media, and then the people who are so falsely maligned. So, I mean, I'm really,
00:06:15.160 really proud and glad our caucus took the stand that we did. But, you know, we need to learn from
00:06:20.680 this, Andrew. And if we don't learn from this, I'm afraid that the whole agenda of wedge, stigmatize,
00:06:28.680 and divide Canadians will be won by Trudeau. If we don't learn from this, which thankfully I believe
00:06:36.120 that we are, I see what our leader Pierre Polyev is doing and caucus is doing, but I do worry about our
00:06:42.920 country as far as the media. You know, I honestly, Andrew, I'm glad that you've had me on. I would
00:06:47.880 love to ask some members of the media, you know, I was grilled by Evan Solomon. I was absolutely
00:06:53.480 grilled. How dare you not support the Emergencies Act? And how dare you support these people?
00:06:59.320 You know, what does he have to say for himself now? You know, how about some of the writers in the
00:07:04.280 Globe and Mail, for example, where's their accountability? And I feel that unless there is
00:07:09.400 some real reckoning, government will be held to account, Andrew, this government will be held
00:07:14.680 in terms of the vote, they will be held to account at some point. But there are many people, elites,
00:07:22.040 academics, you know, the Ottawa bubble, we know the Ottawa bubble. So I'm really happy, proud that we were
00:07:28.840 on the right side. I'm so proud of the caucus that I served with incredible members of parliament. But we
00:07:34.680 better learn from this. You are right. I mean, the media malfeasance throughout the entire protest,
00:07:39.960 and I mean, I'd say the entire COVID era was quite something. I mean, there was one Globe and
00:07:44.600 Mail reporter that posted online that there was a wrecking ball outside Trudeau's office, but it was
00:07:49.560 actually the the weight holding the Canadian flag there. That was, you know, like the size of, you know,
00:07:54.440 my fist or something. And then you also had CBC musing that this was all some foreign Russian
00:07:59.880 financed operation. And there hasn't really been ever a reckoning, let alone an apology from these
00:08:06.440 people. And I think a lot of folks have really expected this could all just be kept in the past.
00:08:13.400 Well, and I guess in what in a sense, their reckoning has come in that most of the media in
00:08:18.680 Canada has lost all credibility, especially with, I would say 40 and under, they have no credibility.
00:08:25.800 And and so 40 and under are using their dollars to show where where they want to get their news from.
00:08:32.920 And it's not the CBCs. It's frankly not the CTVs, probably not the not none of the mainstream.
00:08:39.240 So I guess there is that reckoning. But, you know, I do I do remain hopeful, Andrew, as much as I'm
00:08:44.840 I'm frustrated as I look back. And I think that there still is a false malignment of actually peace
00:08:52.040 loving Canadians who came to Ottawa asking, just asking for their prime minister to say,
00:08:58.920 I hear you. And yes, we are not going to continue with these mandates. There will be an end. And this
00:09:04.840 is all we were asking from him. And I know this is what these Canadians were asking for. They were
00:09:09.560 falsely maligned. So although I feel I feel a real sense of injustice was done for them, I am hopeful
00:09:16.680 for our country. You know, when you speak to people one on one, people are good people in Canada, I
00:09:23.640 believe, are genuinely good people. And what they're looking for is leadership. And that's what I think
00:09:30.440 we're all hoping is going to happen after the next election. We're going to have leadership that will
00:09:36.280 make decisions in the best interest of the entire country, not just to wedge, stigmatize and divide for
00:09:43.080 his own or their own political game. Were you surprised that the NDP went the way they did on
00:09:49.080 this? You know, the party of Tommy Douglas, the party that has put itself in protests more times
00:09:55.000 than anyone could count. Were you surprised that they ended up, I mean Jagmeet Singh has tried to do
00:09:59.160 a bit of revisionism here and said it was only reluctantly, but they were quite supportive of
00:10:03.800 this at the time. And I'm curious if that, when you were in the thick of it there as leader of the
00:10:08.120 opposition, if that shocked you in any way? Well, we'd seen Jagmeet and the NDP just
00:10:14.760 placate the Liberals and basically follow along for so long. You know, Andrew, the irony is the
00:10:19.960 Liberal Party has strayed so far from what it was. It is not the party of Jean Chrétien, you know,
00:10:27.080 even Paul Martin, John Manley. It is not the party that most traditional Liberals knew. And I would say
00:10:33.880 the NDP have very much strayed from what they were as well. They are not the party of Tommy Douglas.
00:10:39.640 And, you know, maybe that's a good thing. Maybe times are changing and we're all changing and
00:10:45.000 adjusting, but the centre seems to have moved. And the people who thought we were in the centre
00:10:52.600 now see that many who were left Liberals but more in the centre have moved far, far to the left. And then
00:11:00.520 the NDP are, we don't even know where they are actually. They're not, they're left, but they're
00:11:06.120 not left in terms of supporting workers or protesters, unless the protesters are protesters that they
00:11:12.920 support. You know, they haven't. And I mean, that's the other thing we haven't even really talked about
00:11:17.400 when you compare the protesters that were in Ottawa in early 2022 versus the protests, the anti-Semitic
00:11:26.280 protests and the hateful protests we have seen going on across the country in support of the
00:11:33.080 terrorist Hamas organisation. You look at the comparative of the two and the media coverage
00:11:40.440 and the government response to the two different types of protests. So what does that tell you?
00:11:47.480 Yeah, I know that's very well said. And this court ruling is, I think, vindication for a lot of people,
00:11:52.760 yourself included. But it's not the end of the story, certainly, when you talk about the media
00:11:56.440 and the fact that the government has still been unrepentant about this. So we'll hopefully see a
00:12:01.160 similar reaction to the Court of Appeal and all the way to the Supreme Court. But I realise I've
00:12:06.520 plucked you back into the political world here. And I'm so grateful you did it, Candice Bergen. We
00:12:10.760 always get people saying how much they miss you in politics, but I hope you're doing well. And I thank you
00:12:15.160 so much for joining me today. Thanks so much, Andrew. Great to be on. Happy to do it any time.
00:12:20.200 Thanks for listening to The Andrew Lawton Show. Support the programme by donating to True
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