Juno News - Carney and Ford CLASH over U.S. tariff response

00:00:00.000 Elbows down, at least for now, Prime Minister Carney has decided not to retaliate in response

00:00:11.360 to the 50% tariffs on Canadian goods announced this week by President Trump, who now says the

00:00:17.620 tariffs are not just about the wildfires. Are those a response to the wildfires in

00:00:23.540 No, no, no. That's separate. We're looking at that separately.

00:00:26.740 And what, is there anything Canada can do?

00:00:27.960 It's only a response to the way they've treated our farmers and our people.

00:00:32.360 Canada's been very, very tough on us over the years.

00:00:36.060 For many years, and no other president's done anything about it.

00:00:39.740 I love Canada. I love the people of Canada.

00:00:42.900 Many friends that live in Canada.

00:00:44.340 But their leadership from Trudeau to the current leadership,

00:00:49.800 I mean, in all fairness to them, they need us to survive.

00:00:53.540 Without us, there's no way they can survive.

00:00:57.360 Carney, meantime, says he's keeping his options open.

00:01:01.540 We have a situation where the American tariffs, the 338 tariffs, will come into effect in 29 days.

00:01:10.700 And we will look at all options in terms of how we would respond if they do come into effect.

00:01:17.000 That's part of what we'll be discussing with premiers.

00:01:19.680 Also, in parallel, as I just said, that I'd spoken with the President, we agreed to intensify

00:01:25.800 discussions.

00:01:26.800 We'll begin that right away, and this is part of the negotiation, so the first objective

00:01:32.820 is to get a comprehensive agreement that benefits, obviously, both countries, that's consistent

00:01:39.020 with Kuzma, Kuzma as it is and Kuzma as it will be, and we'll work towards that.

00:01:46.240 But in parallel, when I say we will do whatever it takes and keep all options, obviously, it's a comprehensive point.

00:01:55.480 In a statement released today, Carney said the Trump tariffs violated the free trade agreement but stopped short of imposing new tariffs on U.S. products.

00:02:04.640 He says Canada has made a series of detailed and comprehensive proposals to resolve this dispute and to modernize KUSMA.

00:02:13.340 We stand ready to intensify those discussions in the coming weeks.

00:02:18.360 This trade dispute has raised costs for families, particularly in the United States.

00:02:24.480 Al Carney and Premier Doug Ford appear to be at odds over how to deal with the latest U.S. tariffs.

00:02:30.540 Ford is pushing dollar-for-dollar retaliation.

00:02:34.200 We need to hit him back as hard as we can.

00:02:37.460 I'm tired of the bully trying to take our lunch money all the time.

00:02:41.060 We always seem to be on our back heels.

00:02:43.580 We need to be on the offense, not constantly on the defense with President Trump.

00:02:48.940 We need to stand up to the bully and we need to hit him tariff to tariff all the way across the board.

00:02:56.000 And that's my message to the Prime Minister.

00:02:59.000 That, of course, would make U.S. goods more expensive for Canadian consumers already struggling with high grocery bills.

00:03:06.480 U.S. Trade Rep. Jameson Greer says the new tariffs are in response to longstanding trade issues between the two countries.

00:03:14.760 And we impose tariffs on on all the world at varying levels of all the countries who retaliated against the United States.

00:03:20.920 One was the People's Republic of China and the other was Canada.

00:03:25.020 Some of the things they did is they banned the sale of U.S. liquor and other booze on Canadian shelves.

00:03:31.560 They capped and limited the amount of autos that could be shipped to the United States

00:03:35.780 from companies who were reshoring to the U.S.

00:03:38.240 And they also continue to maintain limited space for market access for U.S. dairy.

00:03:45.140 But importantly, they give other countries better deals on each of these three issues.

00:03:49.680 And so it was a natural consequence after a year of these measures being a place

00:03:54.140 and longer in the case of dairy for the president to take action.

00:03:57.980 These are responses to this retaliation.

00:04:00.520 We've been asking for a year for the Canadians to remove these, to modify them, to adjust them.

00:04:04.960 They haven't done that.

00:04:06.260 Our guest today is Toronto Sun columnist Brian Lilly.

00:04:09.100 You can find Brian at brianlilly.com.

00:04:12.420 Welcome, Brian.

00:04:13.640 Thanks for having me.

00:04:15.200 All right.

00:04:15.420 It appears to me that you've got two different approaches here.

00:04:19.340 The Carney and Ford are not on the same page.

00:04:22.760 Now, you suggest that there may be more to that.

00:04:25.300 But we've got Carney saying, you know, no retaliatory measures right now as far as the 50 percent tariffs coming the other way.

00:04:34.280 But we'll see what happens in the future.

00:04:36.840 And we've got Ford taking a more belligerent tone saying, no, we've got to go dollar for dollar.

00:04:42.340 What's going on here?

00:04:44.320 So a couple of things.

00:04:44.980 These tariffs don't take effect until August 19th.

00:04:47.940 And if you listen to what U.S. Trade Representative Jameson Greer has been saying on American business television this morning,

00:04:54.380 because while this story dominates the headlines everywhere in Canada, Mark,

00:04:59.180 nobody in the U.S. is paying attention, except like CNBC and Fox Business.

00:05:03.980 They're talking about it because it's a business story.

00:05:06.680 The rest of the Americans, they probably don't know that anything happened related to Canada yesterday.

00:05:13.140 And meanwhile, every Canadian knows exactly what's going on.

00:05:18.020 Mark Carney saying no retaliation right now.

00:05:20.720 He was asked, you know, should the provinces remove their booze ban?

00:05:24.020 he said, well, that's a provincial decision. Doug Ford and David Eby out in British Columbia are

00:05:28.420 saying, absolutely not. The American booze is not going back on the shelf. You're right, Ford is

00:05:33.680 sounding more belligerent. Although he did say he wants us to get to the negotiating table and try

00:05:41.040 and strike a deal in the next 30 days. But if not, then he wants it to be matching tariff for tariff,

00:05:47.480 dollar for dollar. He also went on to, you know, he's calling Donald Trump a bully and you don't

00:05:52.300 let the bully steal your lunch money. It's like, calm down. No, that tone may have been

00:05:58.140 appropriate 18 months ago. I don't think it is now. I don't think it helps. But here's something

00:06:04.820 that you need to know, is that while Ford and EB are saying we're not putting the American

00:06:13.320 booze back on, and Carney seeming like he's non-confrontational, my understanding is that

00:06:18.520 some provinces have looked and said, well, you know what? It's not helping. Maybe we'll put it

00:06:22.380 back. And Carney is urging these or and or his team urging these provinces, don't give that card

00:06:28.760 up. Keep the booze ban in place. Do not walk away from this. He wants that in place. He knows it's

00:06:34.720 the number one irritant for the U.S. And look, if if I was Carney, I wouldn't want the provinces

00:06:40.880 to give it up unilaterally either. But I would be at the table trying to negotiate a deal saying,

00:06:47.220 look, here's what we'll do, including lifting the booze ban, including critical minerals,

00:06:51.520 preferred access for the United States, preferred access for energy. We'll up our defense spending

00:06:56.740 into the Arctic and elsewhere. And, you know, we'll do a bunch of things. We'll come to terms

00:07:02.360 with you on dairy, but we want the tariffs gone. We want guaranteed access to the U.S. market.

00:07:09.020 Carney's not doing that. He wants the booze ban to stay in place, but he's not engaging with the

00:07:13.700 americans and he won't engage with the americans until after the midterms which i think is a

00:07:18.960 horrible strategy that could backfire on us well it could backfire if the republicans hold on to

00:07:24.940 the house it's doubtful they will i think they're going to hold on to the senate the the house is

00:07:31.140 the house is possible but it's a big lift for them the redrawing of the boundaries especially

00:07:37.460 in the u.s south uh southeast you know could make a difference but for a while there looked like the

00:07:44.900 republicans would lose the house and the senate now they're going to keep the senate potentially

00:07:48.840 lose the house and donald trump's just going to be grumpy at that point and he's still going to be

00:07:53.780 in charge of the trade negotiations how is this a winning strategy i mean i get the argument that

00:08:02.080 you have that as a bargaining chip and allow trump to win so that's what he wants right he wants

00:08:07.460 be able to say i got those canadians to back off on the booze ban you know and so you keep that chip

00:08:14.180 chip on the table and you throw it in as part of a negotiation between the two sides now one of the

00:08:19.860 things that carney did say and you heard him was we're going to intensify talks um does that mean

00:08:26.580 that those talks are now quote-unquote intensifying that we're seeing a level of engagement that we

00:08:33.540 we haven't seen between these two countries for a while? I don't know what that means because

00:08:38.720 Mark Carney is claiming in both his verbal statements to TV cameras and in a letter that

00:08:44.680 statement he released yesterday that he has submitted multiple detailed proposals to the

00:08:51.100 Americans and officially Ambassador Greer who I mentioned earlier said all we keep getting are

00:08:56.800 proposals to talk more and you know have further discussions and he said we don't want discussions

00:09:02.900 we want solutions and we're not offering solutions. So, and you can say, well, that's

00:09:08.660 the Americans saying that. Well, I've spent the past day on the phone talking to people

00:09:13.720 who know what's going on in these trade talks, Canadians and Americans, and they're all saying

00:09:18.820 Greer is right. We are pretending to engage with the Americans and we've just been phoning it in.

00:09:25.900 Why? Because it's that strategy. They want to wake Trump out. That's what they think. 0.94

00:09:30.460 so you know ordinary canadians are footing the bill for mark carney's political strategy he

00:09:36.220 knows that as long as he's fighting with donald trump his poll numbers are doing great and so

00:09:40.940 these new terrorists from trump that's a godsend to mark carney it's like wow is are the liberals

00:09:46.660 going to hit 60 of the polls now it could happen i mean okay i don't think it will but you know

00:09:52.340 what i'm saying his poll numbers go up every time he fights with trump that's part of why he wants

00:09:56.460 to keep this going. Part of why he wants to defer. And in the meantime, average Canadians are losing

00:10:02.060 their jobs. In June, we lost 17,000 manufacturing jobs. 52,000 manufacturing jobs gone since Mark

00:10:10.680 Carney became prime minister on a promise to get a deal with Donald Trump because he told us. He

00:10:16.620 said he knows Trump. He's worked with Trump before. He knows how to negotiate. I would say between

00:10:22.060 this and the gordy how bridge deal uh the evidence shows the opposite so rag the puck that's that's

00:10:29.180 the strategy and i guess if there is retaliatory measures on our side there's always the danger

00:10:34.700 that that will just really increase the pain level for consumers because i mean if we're buying food

00:10:39.900 for instance from the united states and those certain articles are subject to tariffs then

00:10:45.820 it's just going to make it more expensive for canadian consumers who are already um feeling

00:10:51.100 the pinch from high inflation and grocery prices so it's a double-edged sword when it comes to

00:10:57.740 these tariffs isn't it at the end of the day you want to hurt the other guys but you don't

00:11:02.140 want to hurt your own people and sadly that's kind of the effect that tariffs have isn't it

00:11:07.740 well in the um when trump first put in his tariffs most canadians don't realize this so he tariffed

00:11:15.100 our steel, our auto, our aluminum. He increased some tariffs on softwood lumber, which were

00:11:21.520 already at historic highs, thanks to Joe Biden. When he tariffed that, we tariffed their steel,

00:11:29.960 aluminum, and autos. But then we also tariffed a whole bunch of things from March of 2025 until

00:11:36.720 the beginning of September 2025. And the government said, we're going to do these tariffs in a way

00:11:43.300 that doesn't hurt Canadians. And then what did they tariff? Coffee. So the biggest producer of

00:11:50.760 coffee in the world is Brazil. Brazil had a, but we get most of our coffee through the United States,

00:11:56.740 even if it is originally sourced in Brazil or Colombia, it comes to us through the United

00:12:01.840 States. The US had put a 25% tariff on Brazilian coffee coming into the US. Then we were putting

00:12:08.320 a 25% tariff on coffee coming in from the US, which is mostly coming from Brazil and Colombia.

00:12:13.300 which, you know, so double tariff. Our own tariffs on ourselves helped drive up the food

00:12:19.880 inflation that we saw. I mean, we're still seeing it. It's horrible. We were tariffing things we

00:12:24.940 never should have tariffed and also that were Kuzma compliant goods. And it was last summer,

00:12:31.520 the American said to us, you've had tariffs on Kuzma compliant goods for months now. If you don't

00:12:37.460 stop it. We're going to do that to you. Our reaction to the American tariffs originally

00:12:41.660 and since day one has been over and above what it should be. And so Trump is responding now,

00:12:49.340 I think unjustly on many of these, especially on the auto ones. But, you know, he's reacting the

00:12:57.620 way we're reacting. And when I point this out, I hear from an awful lot of Canadians, Mark,

00:13:01.260 to just say, yeah, but screw him. Well, okay, sure. If that's your negotiating strategy, great. 0.96

00:13:09.000 But at the end of the day, we need to get a deal with them because so much of our trade is with

00:13:14.080 the United States. If we want to crush our own economy, then we're going about it the right way.

00:13:20.620 Supply management has also reared its ugly head. And you heard Jameson Greer bring it up

00:13:25.900 uh during his interview on cnbc you know could the carny government move on that

00:13:33.200 or do you see that as kind of a non-starter in terms of negotiations going forward

00:13:39.080 well they don't have to move much to make the americans happy

00:13:44.080 look the americans don't want us to get rid of supply management they they could care less

00:13:49.420 whether we have it or don't have it that's up to us and we've decided as a country that we would

00:13:54.720 rather pay or our politicians have decided that we'd rather pay high prices for domestic cheese

00:14:00.480 and milk and other dairy products, butter as a way to ensure the small family farm sticks around.

00:14:08.000 Although we've gone from I think over 100,000 family farms when we brought this in to less

00:14:13.100 than 9,000 now. So the small family farm is a myth. Supply management is not doing what they

00:14:19.780 claim it would do. But here's part of the problem. We negotiated a deal with them that they would

00:14:27.860 have a certain percentage of access to the Canadian market on things like cheese. And then

00:14:32.980 we blocked them. How? The quota that we allotted to them, we didn't give to them. We gave it to

00:14:39.040 our companies. So the big cheese producers like Armstrong and Black Diamond and Saputo and

00:14:46.420 um agripoor these big companies have the quota and if they want to bring in american products

00:14:53.200 they can but they generally don't want to so they don't and then the americans say but wait a minute

00:14:59.200 you said we could sell you this cheese and you guys aren't buying it you refuse to buy it and

00:15:04.520 we can't sell it any other way so all they wanted was for a better allotment of how the um uh quotas

00:15:13.080 would be handed out. Now they've looked at the European free trade deal that we have in the U.S.

00:15:19.800 free trade deal. It can only be industrial producer to industrial producer of things like

00:15:24.900 cheese products that can sell back and forth. But the European trade deal, it allows for retailers

00:15:32.260 to say, you know what? I really like this type of brie. I'm going to import it. And the retailers

00:15:37.260 can decide what they're bringing in. So the Americans are now saying, okay, you've been

00:15:42.160 screwing is over on kuzma which by the way they've complained at trade panels twice once

00:15:46.600 one once lost once they've been complaining about it the whole time now they're saying give us what

00:15:51.880 the europeans have if you want these tariffs to go away they've upped the ante because we decided

00:15:58.280 to play silly games with the agreement we had with them okay so at this point wrapping things up uh

00:16:06.920 we're kind of ragging the puck but saying it's their fault and the americans are saying well

00:16:11.680 know it's it's canada's fault it's hard to know exactly whose fault it is but we can safely say

00:16:18.480 that things kind of be to continue to spin its wheels and i suppose we're heading for the midterms

00:16:24.600 in which we really don't know the result yeah and in fact the republicans hold on to the house

00:16:31.060 as well as the senate then you're saying that trump maybe ends up even more belligerent than

00:16:37.980 he was before the midterms. Is that the bottom line here? Yeah. And if the Democrats do take

00:16:43.880 the House, where's all the excitement in the Democrat Party right now? The far left of the

00:16:48.440 party, which whether you're just a far left Democrat or part of the Democratic Socialists

00:16:52.660 of America, you don't like Kuzma and you want to get rid of free trade. So they're not thinking

00:16:59.840 this out. How do people find you online, Brian? You can find me on X at Brian Lilly, or you can

00:17:06.420 us, Toronto Sun, and of course, BrianLily.com. Great stuff. Thank you once again. Appreciate

00:17:12.180 you coming on the show. Thank you. If you enjoyed the show, consider supporting great

00:17:17.160 independent journalism by becoming a premier member of Juno News. Please go to JunoNews.com

00:17:22.460 backslash straight up. You can find the link below. It helps us do what we do. Thank you

00:17:26.960 so much for tuning in. We'll see you next time.

Juno News - July 22, 2026

Carney and Ford CLASH over U.S. tariff response

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