Juno News - Carney calls pipelines “BORING”

00:00:00.000 And welcome to Straight Up with Mark Bertrone.

00:00:07.520 Appreciate you tuning in, my friends.

00:00:08.840 I am your host.

00:00:10.080 While Prime Minister Mark Carney is getting tired of being asked about

00:00:13.800 building energy pipelines, insisting his government is on it.

00:00:18.960 And at an event Thursday at the Canadian Club in Toronto,

00:00:22.500 he dismissed a question about pipelines as, quote, boring.

00:00:26.160 In a series of incoherent starts and stops,

00:00:30.760 Carney appeared exasperated, having to deal with the issue.

00:00:34.320 Let's listen.

00:00:35.480 One of my questions was, is this pipeline going to come?

00:00:38.320 So boring.

00:00:39.920 It's not actually for a big part of the country.

00:00:41.460 It is.

00:00:41.900 No, but it is.

00:00:42.780 It is because it's, look, it's, don't worry, we're on it.

00:00:45.820 We're on it.

00:00:46.320 Like, we're on it.

00:00:46.880 But there is this whole world.

00:00:49.500 Okay, hands up.

00:00:50.480 Who's working on the pipeline in this room?

00:00:52.140 Erica Barutis is going to be joining us to deal with that one a little later on in the

00:00:58.860 segment.

00:00:59.460 But as you heard there, I mean, in his view, at least he said it during that interview,

00:01:04.480 that he thinks tech jobs will have a much bigger impact on the economy, on productivity

00:01:08.780 than an energy pipeline.

00:01:10.720 What he did not mention, or maybe didn't know, is that energy is the single most critical

00:01:15.200 part of any rollout of intelligence infrastructure, including AI data centers.

00:01:20.580 Maybe he finds that boring too, but it takes a huge amount of energy to power these projects.

00:01:28.480 The likes of Microsoft, Google, Amazon, Oracle, and Meta together have recently signed contracts

00:01:34.480 for 50 gigawatts of new power by 2030, more than the entire installed capacity of the country

00:01:41.380 of Spain.

00:01:43.160 Increased oil production is already one of the fastest and cheapest power, cheapest types

00:01:49.380 of power to power that rollout.

00:01:51.540 And Canada has plenty of it.

00:01:52.780 What we don't have, sadly, is the infrastructure to fully exploit those resources.

00:01:57.560 Again, maybe that's too boring for the prime minister to consider.

00:02:01.420 Meantime, Alberta Premier Danielle Smith, whom Carney says is on line one, whatever that

00:02:06.520 means, says a deal with the feds is a work in progress.

00:02:10.420 Let's listen.

00:02:10.840 Are you becoming less optimistic about getting a new pipeline deal done in light of the recent

00:02:14.900 budget?

00:02:15.180 I'm still working with the federal government to see if we can come up with a memorandum

00:02:20.560 of understanding so that we can get a bitumen pipeline to Asian markets, as well as the

00:02:24.960 Pathways Project, as well as remove some of the bad laws that will allow for that investment

00:02:29.300 to occur.

00:02:29.920 So I hope to have more to say next week before a great cup.

00:02:34.120 Smith is looking for a major pipeline agreement with the feds to fast track a new oil pipeline

00:02:39.500 to the northern BC coast.

00:02:41.120 He may get somewhat less than that.

00:02:43.340 We'll have to see.

00:02:44.940 There is still some fallout to be seen from the defection of former conservative Chris

00:02:50.040 Dantremont, who joined the liberals just last week.

00:02:52.960 Dantremont says he was encouraged to make the jump after meeting with Prime Minister Carney,

00:02:58.120 but says getting yelled at by conservative Andrew Scheer sealed the deal.

00:03:02.740 Let's listen.

00:03:03.140 This has been a thought for a long time, you know, basically from the election, you know,

00:03:09.020 hearing from longtime supporters that wouldn't support me anymore because of the leadership

00:03:14.660 style of the Conservative Party.

00:03:17.160 So, you know, I've been thinking about it a lot.

00:03:19.860 And, you know, I think people saw that I wasn't being utilized within my party and they were

00:03:25.180 reaching out.

00:03:25.740 And when I had that meeting with the Prime Minister, because I really hadn't had the

00:03:29.580 opportunity to meet Mr. Carney before.

00:03:31.780 So, you know, that did help a lot in making it clearer of what I wanted to do.

00:03:38.680 But I tell you what really made it, what sealed the deal is when I got yelled at when this

00:03:44.020 became part of the news on Tuesday.

00:03:48.020 He doesn't like getting yelled at.

00:03:49.660 Well, it was only last April during the election campaign that Dantremont was very critical

00:03:54.240 of the Liberals' election platform.

00:03:56.860 And there you go.

00:03:58.080 He was very much in favor of the Conservative one.

00:04:00.440 So obviously something happened.

00:04:02.620 Anyway, for all the criticism that Pierre Polyev has been under since Dantremont's departure,

00:04:08.560 the new poll suggests the party is going to do well or would do better with him at the

00:04:13.420 helm than other prominent Conservatives.

00:04:15.240 The survey looked at how the party would perform with different leaders in a hypothetical election.

00:04:22.880 Polyev was the top choice, defeating former Prime Minister Harper, Doug Ford, Jason Kenney,

00:04:30.120 and Caroline Mulroney.

00:04:32.220 I want to take a minute to thank today's sponsor, which is Macamie College.

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00:05:18.080 You can go to candicemalcolm.com slash MACAMI.

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00:05:22.640 And if you apply through that link and you're successful, you get a $500 Juno News scholarship.

00:05:29.080 You know, I went to the University of Alberta and studied political science.

00:05:32.200 And the thing you realize when you're doing a university degree is that it doesn't lead

00:05:36.000 you to a job.

00:05:36.700 And so for me, after three years of being a political science student, I looked around

00:05:41.480 and realized I had no job skills.

00:05:43.460 I had never worked in politics.

00:05:44.840 Everything was theoretical.

00:05:45.760 It was all in the classroom.

00:05:46.840 And I had to start working on political campaigns just to get my foot in the door.

00:05:51.540 The hard thing about politics is that you need experience to get a job, but jobs require

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00:06:11.620 So again, check out this link at candicemalcolm.com slash MACAMI.

00:06:16.840 Our guest today is Erika Baruti.

00:06:18.860 She's an expert in politics and public affairs.

00:06:22.680 Erika, welcome to the show.

00:06:24.360 Thanks so much for having me.

00:06:26.040 All right.

00:06:26.260 So you heard this, frankly, rather odd clip from the prime minister who was asked about

00:06:31.960 the pipeline.

00:06:33.280 Clearly, there's an element of exasperation here.

00:06:36.200 You know, he stumbled around wondering how to respond and finally came up with, well,

00:06:41.200 we got this.

00:06:42.800 And it doesn't inspire a whole lot of confidence.

00:06:45.560 I mean, if you're in the energy sector, if you're looking for a way to move Canada forward

00:06:50.640 on this file, that answer does not exactly inspire a whole lot of confidence, does it?

00:06:55.260 It doesn't inspire confidence. 0.97

00:06:56.720 It also makes him look quite silly. 0.82

00:06:59.340 I mean, to say that one of the leading economic drivers of our country and the potential to 0.93

00:07:04.920 be the superpower that he campaigned on is boring and not something this room wants to talk about,

00:07:12.560 you know, seems really out of touch.

00:07:14.280 But it sends even a greater message to, you know, Western Canada, where we've been talking

00:07:19.740 about energy nonstop for over the last decade.

00:07:22.900 And I think there was a lot of hope that under Carney that might be heard, but it didn't

00:07:28.620 really seem after that comment that he's been listening to what's been said and the message

00:07:33.020 about our energy sector that's been conveyed time and time again.

00:07:37.380 Yeah, he said, well, we've got this.

00:07:40.340 And then he said something cryptic, like, well, there'll be an announcement, some kind

00:07:45.440 of announcement on it.

00:07:47.000 So that tells me that it may not be the announcement that Danielle Smith and many other Canadians

00:07:52.420 want to hear.

00:07:53.240 What do you think?

00:07:54.340 Yeah, he definitely started off, well, well, it's boring.

00:07:56.940 Well, just kidding.

00:07:57.700 Like, we've got this.

00:07:58.700 And then it was like, well, we got something like this.

00:08:01.720 So I don't know.

00:08:03.320 I mean, until he says we're not building a pipeline, I will be hopeful because I do think

00:08:09.940 that looking at the budget that was tabled last week, the amount of revenue that they

00:08:15.160 need to bring in to make this even at all sustainable, the private investment that they've

00:08:20.320 kind of doubled downed on without creating an environment that is friendly to the private

00:08:26.040 sector.

00:08:26.520 He's got a lot of work to do to be able to even make this $78 billion deficit work.

00:08:33.680 So I'll be, I'll hold my breath until we hear no, but I think you're going to continue

00:08:41.760 to see some of the premiers, as we saw Saskatchewan, Ontario, and Alberta say, we're going to build

00:08:46.740 a pipeline.

00:08:47.480 So if he doesn't want it, he can get out of the way.

00:08:50.840 Yeah, I think the fact that he called it boring suggests to me that he's tired of answering

00:08:56.480 the question about pipelines.

00:08:58.340 He's tired of being asked about it everywhere he goes, almost.

00:09:02.400 He gets asked his questions about, you know, when are we going to have a pipeline and when

00:09:05.900 are you going to roll this out?

00:09:07.520 And he's, to me, he says, you know, I've had enough, throws up his hands and doesn't

00:09:12.800 want to hear about it anymore.

00:09:13.700 But maybe people need to continue asking him until we get some kind of an announcement,

00:09:18.880 if that's what it takes.

00:09:19.840 The other part of this that troubles me a little bit is that he seems to have suggested,

00:09:23.960 well, you know, we're going to do a lot better in terms of our productivity if we invest heavily

00:09:31.000 in the rollout of these AI networks and data entry, data collection networks, as if one is

00:09:39.640 mutually exclusive to the other.

00:09:41.060 I mean, he didn't seem to mention that energy is like the most important part of any rollout

00:09:46.480 of intelligence infrastructure, including AI centers.

00:09:50.840 And, you know, it makes me wonder if he's aware of that and if he is aware of it, why

00:09:55.920 wouldn't he see the two working in tandem rather than saying, well, this one is better than

00:10:00.460 that one?

00:10:02.000 Yeah, it's actually surprising.

00:10:04.500 I mean, I thought he was smarter than Trudeau, but it seems to me that maybe he doesn't understand

00:10:09.920 how various industries besides the finance sector works, because to be able to have that

00:10:16.040 capacity on a grid system requires oil and gas.

00:10:21.140 It requires other sources of electricity, and it's not going to run on wind and solar.

00:10:25.580 But if you're trying to get anything moving in the AI space, I mean, one of the biggest places

00:10:31.220 that uses AI is our natural resources or our energy sector.

00:10:35.820 And so it seemed, again, I hate saying out of touch because he hasn't even been there long

00:10:41.180 enough to be out of touch, but apparently he's making it up for lost time, that it's really

00:10:46.940 seeming like he doesn't realize that if we're going to be this energy superpower, which he

00:10:51.860 campaigned on, that you can't only be one resource.

00:10:57.520 And it seems to me like he's really focused on the big, sexy topic of AI and not thinking

00:11:04.460 about the impact it has and the trickle-down effect to industry and consumers.

00:11:09.820 Yeah, it just seems that any promises that he has made in that regard, and when it comes

00:11:15.280 to pipelines and building out the resource sector, it's always around this sense of trepidation.

00:11:21.900 You know, like he's doing it almost against his will, you know, like, I'll get around

00:11:28.560 to it.

00:11:29.700 This is boring.

00:11:31.800 Hi, we're on this.

00:11:33.340 Leave me alone.

00:11:34.540 You know what I'm saying?

00:11:35.340 Like, that's why I'm suggesting that there's a real lack of confidence.

00:11:39.820 I mean, if I was in Alberta and I was thinking, looking for some kind of signal, I wouldn't

00:11:43.700 see it here.

00:11:44.240 So what do you suppose the brain trust is thinking now in Alberta?

00:11:47.860 They talk about Danielle Smith and so forth, the premier.

00:11:51.160 I mean, she said that they're working on this project with the feds.

00:11:53.980 Well, this has been going on for a long time.

00:11:56.420 You know, there's this sense that there will be some trade-offs in terms of commitments

00:12:00.400 on the net zero stuff and carbon capture.

00:12:05.760 You know, is it possible that this is going to be completely underwhelming when we finally

00:12:11.100 get this announcement, whenever it happens?

00:12:12.780 Well, should we not get an announcement, I don't think the dial of Alberta, the message

00:12:17.780 that they've been sending is going to change.

00:12:19.580 It will be actually probably even more relentless.

00:12:22.220 Now, I think if there's no project to come forward, they've talked about natural gas being

00:12:26.660 probably the first most feasible as it's kind of the from the Liberals recognized as,

00:12:32.760 you know, the most appealing fossil fuel.

00:12:36.780 And so, you know, I don't think Danielle Smith's message is going to change to Ottawa.

00:12:41.520 We need more energy.

00:12:43.880 We need more, you know, traditional energy being oil and gas.

00:12:47.980 And there's multiple places, either south, north or west, north or east that we can get

00:12:56.400 our resources to market.

00:12:59.340 And so I think that there is a big expectation.

00:13:01.800 They keep batting around by Grey Cup, which is very Canadian of us.

00:13:05.940 And I do hope that there is a pipeline.

00:13:09.720 Now, the odd thing through all of this is the one project that looks to be the most feasible

00:13:15.620 would be Keystone and going now relying after this whole elbows up campaign, relying on the

00:13:24.680 United States for to get our pipeline and our energy to market.

00:13:29.480 So, I mean, it's I think that would hurt Kearney a lot.

00:13:32.500 But as an Alberta girl, I'm all for getting our energy sector out and on boats from any

00:13:39.820 direction we can get.

00:13:42.040 Yeah.

00:13:42.600 I mean, Keystone was canceled by the Americans. 0.98

00:13:45.340 Right.

00:13:45.460 I think it was day one of Joe Biden's administration.

00:13:48.720 He said, oh, no, we're not going there.

00:13:50.420 Of course, there was that whole kabuki theater during the Obama administration in which it

00:13:58.540 went back and forth between the Harper government at the time and Obama.

00:14:05.700 And he just kind of kept putting it off.

00:14:08.760 And then it happened.

00:14:10.400 And then it had the plug pulled out of it by Biden.

00:14:15.700 So, you know, it'll be interesting to see because I think Trump is all in on this.

00:14:21.480 Right.

00:14:21.720 He's all about drill, baby, drill.

00:14:24.020 So where is the holdup here in terms of Keystone?

00:14:27.440 Is it from our side now?

00:14:29.900 From my understanding, yes.

00:14:32.000 Like they've the challenge was the direction in Keystone that has all been reassessed.

00:14:37.800 It's essentially for Kearney and Trump to come to an agreement.

00:14:42.680 Now, again, I don't think that maybe the stipulations that Kearney is going to put on the private

00:14:48.080 sector companies and the mandates he's going to try and give to the premiers on, like you

00:14:53.640 talked about, net zero carbon capture, et cetera, will be the same on that he would give to

00:14:59.120 President Trump.

00:15:01.300 But again, I'm drill, baby, drill, too.

00:15:04.160 So wherever we can go, I just think that if we're truly going to be this independent

00:15:08.880 economy, we need to look to our own borders, not just the South.

00:15:14.960 Like that wouldn't be a checkbox that shows the sustainability and longevity of our own

00:15:21.180 economy to be independent from the U.S.

00:15:23.400 However, I'll take the revenue where we can we can get it.

00:15:26.700 And the one thing that I don't think Mark Kearney understands is actually all of the clean tech,

00:15:34.020 clean energy regulations, carbon capture, additional projects that Alberta already puts

00:15:40.280 in place with kind which myth busts a lot of his criticism for this industry.

00:15:45.660 And I don't know if it's his him or his caucus, but there's somewhere along this line that's

00:15:51.740 stopping these projects, even though they really could use the Constitution to their

00:15:56.720 benefit and force something or change Bill C-46, the tanker ban.

00:16:01.920 They have that within their power.

00:16:03.840 I think that when it comes back to your question of who's stopping all of this, the buck is

00:16:08.740 stopping in Ottawa.

00:16:10.400 And I guess the rest of the premiers and everyone that can tell them to keep moving forward will

00:16:16.140 have to go about that if we don't hear something by Grey Cup.

00:16:19.580 How much pressure is Premier Smith under?

00:16:23.660 I mean, is her political future now wrapped up in this agreement?

00:16:27.900 Because of course, she's also under pressure from the independence crowd.

00:16:32.000 They're looking for, you know, a referendum.

00:16:36.640 And so she seems to be caught in the middle, right?

00:16:39.740 There's a lot of pressures on her among them to deal with the feds, which is, you know, 0.99

00:16:45.400 hard enough as it is, but then to also placate people at home or, you know, sick and tired

00:16:52.220 of this back and forth that has gone nowhere and are thinking, you know, we got like one

00:16:59.220 foot out of the, out of Confederation, you know, a difficult time for her.

00:17:03.860 It is, but I don't think she's losing more sleep than Mark Carney is in navigating all

00:17:09.780 of this.

00:17:10.880 She, in every Premier in Alberta, regardless of ideology, Rachel Notley even did it, was 0.92

00:17:16.580 push Ottawa.

00:17:17.760 It is politically beneficial to challenge Ottawa as an Alberta Premier.

00:17:23.040 And so I think she can continue to do that.

00:17:25.480 I think she's given herself through her communication, as well as how strong she's pushed Ottawa, to

00:17:31.580 give herself more runway because she's proposed, I think about three different opportunities 0.97

00:17:37.620 for the federal government.

00:17:39.460 And if they say no, I think again, we might all end up with just Keystone, but I still

00:17:46.500 think that that would be a win for her and the province of Alberta.

00:17:51.420 So she is in a little bit of a sticky situation, given that that, like if there's no pipeline,

00:17:56.740 I think we'll see a little bit of a resurgence of the separation movement.

00:18:02.500 But even then, I think Albertans across the board, regardless of if they're conservative

00:18:06.620 or not, have actually appreciated and polls suggest that appreciate how hard she's been

00:18:12.500 pushing for this industry.

00:18:14.500 Because in Alberta, we know how environmentally sound our production is.

00:18:21.500 And even with the removal of emissions cap, we can still guarantee the carbon capture that

00:18:27.320 the prime minister is looking for.

00:18:29.520 Well, I guess the big get would be another pipeline to Tidewater, right?

00:18:35.660 You know, a shorter, like a Northern Gateway type of line.

00:18:41.080 Do you think that's a possibility?

00:18:43.040 And to what degree will BC's ongoing intransigence on that file weigh in on all of this?

00:18:49.940 Yeah, I mean, I would love if that was the announcement to come.

00:18:53.100 I'm not sure that that is going to be what we'll see from this prime minister.

00:18:58.480 I mean, he's been dancing, trying to secure a majority, et cetera.

00:19:02.700 I think if we can hold that minority, there's better chance in his timeline or in even the 0.56

00:19:10.100 Alberta timeline until the next election to be able to really push for that.

00:19:15.100 So do I think 2025 is the year that we might get a pipeline announced?

00:19:21.380 I'm not going to hold my breath.

00:19:22.940 However, I do think that there is some runway to continue to advocate.

00:19:27.740 And again, the power of the premiers and those first ministers coming together is something

00:19:33.220 that Ottawa cannot ignore.

00:19:37.100 And I think we're seeing more of that than ever.

00:19:39.360 How much frustration is there amongst Albertans as they look towards Eastern Canada and continue

00:19:46.940 to see people who are, I want to say, impartial or don't care or don't get or even openly hostile

00:19:54.780 like you see amongst some of the politicians that go back towards, you know, Alberta's aspirations?

00:20:00.520 It's almost like they don't understand that so much of the transfer payments East, you know,

00:20:06.340 ends up coming and generated from the oil sector.

00:20:10.560 You know, is that an ongoing issue or have Albertans sort of thrown up their hands and

00:20:15.040 say, we don't care anymore?

00:20:17.180 Oh, I definitely don't ever think we'll say we don't care because it is very frustrating.

00:20:21.620 I mean, you have facts and figures and is a little bit rich for Quebec to say that when

00:20:28.220 the equalization formula is very much in their favor and they're able to run balanced budgets,

00:20:33.800 even though they're not actually because of the subsidies that they're getting from other

00:20:38.060 provinces.

00:20:38.940 So it is very frustrating as an Albertan that you can say the same consistent message for

00:20:45.420 a decade and it's still not resonate.

00:20:47.960 Even when you're proving the environmental pushback, you're proving the economic feasibility

00:20:54.320 of it.

00:20:54.920 You're proving all of these things that, and the world's desire for more oil and gas, like

00:21:01.360 it's not going to wind and solar.

00:21:04.660 And so again, I think that we are seeing though more of a band of that in Ontario, I think has

00:21:11.840 actually started to really realize the need for a pipeline.

00:21:16.600 And so Quebec, I think will always have its unique case or its unique position in our country.

00:21:23.180 But if Ontario can get on board and that's something we can look at, I truly believe we can get

00:21:28.980 something eastbound.

00:21:31.660 Erika Barutis, thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:21:34.920 We really do appreciate it.

00:21:36.540 Thanks for having me.

00:21:37.920 And that is it for this edition of my show.

00:21:43.100 Appreciate you tuning in, my friends.

00:21:44.660 We'll see you next time.

00:21:53.180 We'll see you next time.

Juno News - November 10, 2025

Carney calls pipelines “BORING”

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