A long-awaited pipeline announcement may finally be at hand. According to sources, Alberta and the federal government are set to announce a new energy sector deal this coming Thursday. It'll come in the form of a memorandum of understanding that includes a reference to a new pipeline through northern B.C. to the coast. Now, just last week, we heard from a parade of Liberal Party climate hardliners throw cold water on the rumor that a deal was imminent.
00:00:00.000And welcome to Straight Up with Mark Petroni. I am your host.
00:00:07.520Well, a long-awaited pipeline announcement may finally be at hand.
00:00:11.640According to sources, Alberta and the Kearney government are set to announce a new energy sector deal this coming Thursday.
00:00:20.520It'll come in the form of a memorandum of understanding that includes a reference to a new pipeline through northern B.C. to the coast.
00:00:27.900Now, just last week, we heard from a parade of Liberal Party climate hardliners throw cold water on the rumor that a deal was imminent,
00:00:37.020including an outright dismissal of any thought of lifting the ban on tanker traffic off the coast of B.C.
00:00:44.300Ves Sobat is our guest today, and he'll be on hand shortly to talk about all of that.
00:00:49.380Well, no word on any resumption in trade talks between Canada and the United States.
00:00:54.120And the prime minister responded with a terse who cares when he was asked about it. Let's listen.
00:01:00.520Who cares? I mean, it's a detail. It's a detail. I spoke to him. I'll speak to him again when it matters.
00:01:06.520I look forward to speaking to the president soon, but I don't have a burning issue to speak with the president about right now.
00:01:14.180When America wants to come back and have the discussions on the trade side, we will have those discussions.
00:01:20.380Now, conservative MP Melissa Lansman responded to Carney's who cares in this way in this post.
00:01:26.940The prime minister has finally given up, pretending he has any grip on Canada's relationship with the United States.
00:01:35.040And just as expected, he is now shrugging off the one promise he made about it, which also happens to be the one he's completely botched.
00:01:46.720Botched for auto workers, farmers, exporters, forestry towns, and every family and every border community that depends on trade.
00:01:56.620Well, one thing that the prime minister does care about is carbon emissions. Carney told the United Nations those energy-hungry AI centers being built need to be carbon neutral. Let's listen.
00:02:09.660I want to highlight a few other issues before my time is up.
00:02:13.060First, the importance of high-integrity standardized carbon markets that have the potential to shift capital flows to those most affected by climate change.
00:02:21.860We can catalyze enormous private sector demand for these credits by committing AI data center development to be carbon neutral.
00:02:31.440We need a price on carbon. I salute my neighbor, the European Union, in pricing carbon and putting in place a CBAM.
00:02:40.260Well, others are giving up on carbon zero agendas, but not Carney.
00:02:45.200By 2030, it is estimated that AI artificial intelligence will drive 30 to 50% of all new electricity needs. Think about that.
00:02:55.620And with its natural gas deposits, Canada could play a big role in providing that energy needed to power those AI data centers.
00:03:03.340Well, the new poll by Leger found that more than two-thirds of new Canadians want fewer than 300,000 new immigrants brought into Canada every year.
00:03:11.84040% of new Canadians want less than 100,000 newcomers brought into the country every year.
00:03:20.960And our guest today is Vest Sobad. He is an engineer. He spent 40 years working in the plastics industry.
00:03:27.940He's a business executive. He's also executive director of the Coalition for Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada.
00:03:44.500Let's talk a little bit about, well, we'll get to J.D. Vance in a minute, but we've got to hit this oil news, this deal, alleged deal,
00:03:54.200that has apparently been signed but not officially announced.
00:03:58.800And that's going to happen on Thursday, where there's going to be some kind of ceremony in which Mark Carney and Alberta Premier Daniel Smith are going to get together and sign this agreement that will apparently greenlight a pipeline.
00:04:14.440We've been waiting for this project for a long time through northern B.C. out to the coast.
00:04:18.700But it's just a story right now. What do you make of it?
00:04:23.080Well, I know Danielle very well. Wonderful, wonderful premier. My goodness, she's serving Alberta well.
00:04:29.880And if anybody can do it, it would be Danielle Smith.
00:04:34.440Now, I always am very reserved when I, you know, when I hear that there's a deal.
00:04:41.360We heard a couple of Thursdays ago that there was a deal with the Americans on the trade issue.
00:04:48.240And, you know, it sort of fell apart. It didn't happen.
00:04:51.100A lot of things can happen between now and Thursday.
00:04:53.960But I really hope that they do have a deal.
00:04:57.320That would be wonderful for Canada to be able to get our oil to the West Coast to be able to serve other markets would be absolutely tremendous.
00:05:05.980Now, I, of course, the devil is always in the details.
00:05:15.200If you recall, Mark, earlier on, EB said that he wasn't in favor of a deal.
00:05:21.020You recall Elizabeth May saying last week that there's no way there's going to be more tanker traffic on the West Coast.
00:05:30.600So there was a lot of there's a lot of opposition to this.
00:05:34.980But but I think if if it comes to fruition, it will be wonderful for Canada.
00:05:41.140It'll be extra revenue. It'll be extra taxes.
00:05:44.300It'll be something that can go towards, you know, social programs and it'll help ratchet down the temperature right now, because the the talk of Western separation is very, very high right now.
00:05:57.820I think you probably saw some of the crowds that were in Edmonton and Calgary over the weekend.
00:06:03.420They were very large. And there is a real sentiment that Alberta wants to go it alone.
00:06:11.000Now, whether they have a majority of people thinking so, I don't know, but it's always a concern.
00:06:18.480Yeah, there's I mean, I take your point about what kind of measures that she will have had to agree to, like decarbonizing and all this sort of thing.
00:06:27.640You know, how onerous will those be? I mean, if she agrees to it, then presumably they're doable.
00:06:34.780But if you're raising the cost of production, then you could almost sabotage the project by imposing so many restrictions that it's just not economically feasible.
00:06:45.080What a great point. What a great point. And you use the word decarbonization.
00:06:49.220Mark, I just hate that word. I can't stand it because it's fictitious.
00:06:53.040How do you decarbonize oil? You cannot. It is a word that comes out of George Orwell's 1984 book.
00:07:03.280You cannot decarbonize oil. Oil is carbon, for goodness sake.
00:07:07.920So these semantics really scare me. You know, I'm just reading through Mark Carney's book Values, and there's so much on sustainability there.
00:07:16.580It reminds me of two meetings I sat in at a luncheon at the Bank of Canada many years ago with Mark Carney and a number of other people.
00:07:26.520And all meeting, all he did was talk about sustainability.
00:07:29.780And I thought to myself, I must be at the wrong meeting.
00:07:32.300We're here to talk about the Canadian economy and interest rates.
00:07:36.100Why are we talking about sustainability?
00:07:37.460And all of us got up, maybe there's 12 of us at the time, got up, left that luncheon and thought, what did we just see?
00:07:47.660So I'm very hopeful that Daniel was able to somehow navigate those very treacherous waters.
00:07:55.400But judging by the book and his past performance, I'm not sure that this is a deal that will be beneficial for Alberta in the long run.
00:08:09.120And what about the tanker traffic ban?
00:08:12.000I mean, do you lift that? Do you partially lift it?
00:08:14.600I think the Globe and Mail reported last week that there would be a limited lifting of the tanker ban as it now exists, which would allow for traffic.
00:08:56.100But the fact that the Americans have easy access to the West Coast and can ship their product back to their markets is exactly what Canada should have as well.
00:09:08.700I mean, I don't understand why we are so desperate to handcuff our own economic growth.
00:09:16.860That still, to this day, does not make any sense to me.
00:09:21.300Canada should be the richest country in the world.
00:09:23.780We've talked about that in the past on your radio show.
00:09:27.540And we should be richer than the Kuwaitis, than the folks in the UAE.
00:09:34.200We should be at par with Saudi Arabia, for goodness sakes.
00:09:38.340And yet we're not because we handcuff ourselves.
00:09:41.240We handcuff our ability to bring product to market.
00:09:46.680And it'll be interesting to see if this deal has an exemption to that.
00:09:51.740That's really, I think, what has to happen.
00:09:53.520Remember, too, Bill C-69 is a horrendous bill that essentially stops Canadian production and development of our own resources.
00:10:06.660He's going to have to have many of his exemptions revolving around Bill C-69 as well, wouldn't you think?
00:10:15.000I mean, logically speaking, the No More Pipelines bill will have to be changed or scrapped or whatever in order for that project to move forward.
00:10:22.940But it'll be very interesting to see what happens on Thursday when we get a first glimpse at this because, of course, Carney himself is kind of navigating the two sides of his party.
00:10:36.840There are still some people there who believe that a pipeline would be a good thing.
00:10:39.860I suspect they're the quiet ones, very quiet ones, keeping to themselves, keeping their heads down.
00:10:45.060And then you've got the much louder hardliners on the climate front, you know, the Nathaniel Erskine Smiths of the world and the Stephen Gilbos who say, no way, Jose, we're not going to build this thing.
00:10:59.020And they want to throw as many impediments, you know, towards the building of it as possible.
00:11:04.300Well, you've got to come up with a deal with indigenous people.
00:11:07.040You know, you've got to make it palatable to them.
00:11:11.060Well, we all know B.C. is not going to be on side.
00:11:13.080So, I mean, there's all sorts of questions around this thing because, you know, what about David Eby?
00:11:19.160He just came out last week and was fervent in his opposition to that pipeline saying, well, if you do that, you know, it'll mess up my deal with the indigenous peoples and their project that we have in the works, which is contingent on keeping the tanker bad.
00:11:34.380So, I mean, this was only last week and Eby has not been privy to some of the talks that have been going on.
00:11:41.120In fact, he was complaining about it last week saying, you know, I know there's talks going on between Premiers Mo and Daniel Smith and the Kearney government, and I'm not part of it.
00:11:53.760And so, you know, Thursday's going to be an interesting day if it works out that there is an announcement.
00:12:00.080Well, you mentioned Stephen Gilboa, and I was fascinated to hear that he had gone down to Brazil for those UN environmental talks recently, even though that's not in his portfolio.
00:12:13.200And he went down on the government dime for that.
00:12:16.180That struck me as awfully odd, I think.
00:12:22.100And, of course, Stephen Gilboa is the minister who said he doesn't want any more new highways across Canada, right?
00:12:29.460And, of course, he doesn't want, you know, oil exports from Canada.
00:12:35.280If you recall his lineage, he came from Greenpeace.
00:12:38.180He hung from the CN Tower many years ago and literally cost about half a million dollars because he got stranded hanging from a rope trying to hang a Greenpeace banner.
00:12:50.400And the police had to come in, the helicopters had to come in, they had to rescue him, and that's how he was charged, and he had a criminal record as a result of it.
00:13:01.340And still, he managed to become a minister in the Trudeau government.
00:13:06.360Certainly, he's no fan of Canada developing its own resources.
00:13:12.200So, the question becomes, why was he down there?
00:13:14.780Is he down there to brief the prime minister?
00:13:17.400Was he down there to share the latest with E.B.?
00:13:20.760I don't know, but I think that's a wild card, and it will not be helpful.
00:13:27.140Remember, the United Nations, years ago, because of more strong, the Undersecretary General of the United Nations,
00:13:36.260started this whole environmental UNEP movement as a means to make up for the money that was lost when the Americans decided they weren't going to fund the United Nations temporarily for a short period of time.
00:13:51.800So, it was more strong who came up with this whole notion of carbon trading, and it was supposed to be a means of funding the United Nations in the event that the U.S. no longer funded the UN.
00:14:06.160And it has nothing truly to do with the environment.
00:14:10.580It had everything to do with a financial arrangement with the UN.
00:14:17.040So, I find it hard to believe that it's going to be a deal that makes business sense, but I do have a lot of respect for Premier Smith.
00:14:27.900And if anybody can do this, I think Danielle can.
00:14:33.520And once we see that deal, then we'll see whether or not that dampens some of the talk about, you know, independence out there, which you talked about earlier.
00:14:43.060But if they see that this deal is, you know, you look at the devils of the details, and they see that, no, this is going to push, it's not going to be workable, it's not going to be economically feasible, then it may push things the other direction and say, they're trying to screw us over, and our own Premier is in league with them.
00:15:03.360I mean, that could happen, so that's why it's so important that we see this deal when, you know, when it eventually is announced on Thursday, and I'll be keeping a close eye on that.
00:15:13.640We also got to talk a little bit about AI, because that, of course, is powered by electricity, and, you know, it's an enormous, you know, enormously needing, you know, these data centers require all sorts of power.
00:15:28.700I mean, Canada is well positioned to provide that power, unfortunately, you know, because of our regulations, because of the anti-oil and anti-energy, really, opponents in our country, we haven't really positioned ourselves very well, whereas the Americans have, and, you know, they're exploding in terms of the amount of investment going into these AI centers.
00:15:52.380And, you know, they say that by 2030, it's going to demand between 30 and 50% of all new energy is going to have to go to power these AI data centers.
00:16:04.400I mean, here's Canada perfectly positioned here to provide energy, you know, to power these things, and then you've got Carnage saying, well, no, it's got to be decarbonized.
00:16:12.380You know, AI has to be sort of carbon friendly or neutral, carbon neutral.
00:16:19.760I mean, here, he's blowing it, you know.
00:16:23.640Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had AI centers in Canada?
00:16:26.920But, of course, we can't if we have a carbon tax and if we're rationing electricity all over the place.
00:16:34.100We have so much natural gas that can create electricity.
00:16:38.340Again, wouldn't it be wonderful if those barriers for natural gas plants would be removed so that we could take advantage of and build some of those AI plants?
00:16:49.140I know Microsoft years ago looked at North Bay as a center for their computing capabilities because there are some old bunkers up there that were empty during the Second World War.
00:17:02.520And at the time, Mayor Vic Fidelli of North Bay walked Bill Gates and Microsoft through those operations.
00:17:11.920They never decided to take them up on the offer.
00:17:16.480But that's the kind of thing, I think, that would help growth in Canada.
00:17:45.040You have to use electricity, which is generated how?
00:17:50.660Our strategy seems to be very dysfunctional.
00:17:55.200And I am hopeful, I'm very, very hopeful that we start becoming more pragmatic.
00:18:03.100You know, most people don't know this, but five to 10 percent of all electricity use is just used in pushing water from the source to the tap in a city.
00:18:16.900That's electricity. You need electricity to push that water to a tap.
00:18:22.380That's the same when we talk about AI.
00:18:25.820AI needs enormous amount of electricity to drive those engines.
00:18:30.060And one of the reasons Ontario was so wealthy so quickly at the turn of the century, you'll recall,
00:18:37.120is the wonderful hydroelectric generating stations down in Niagara Falls that Nikola Tesla and George Westinghouse had built.
00:18:45.480That gave us a superior advantage for the first half of the 20th century.
00:18:51.560And that's the kind of visionary thinking we need.
00:18:54.860That's the kind of we need technology that will help us generate wealth.
00:19:03.120And so far, I'm not seeing that with Carney.
00:19:35.700You know, somebody asked him if he had had any contact with Trump or if Trump was calling him back or they had any furtherance in moving on discussions around trade.
00:19:48.240You know, I mean, what do you make of that?
00:19:51.140To me, it shows that he's getting annoyed.
00:19:53.820He doesn't want to be asked about that.
00:19:55.480He doesn't want to be reminded about his failure to live up to his key promise, which was, you know, a victorious deal with Trump by July 21st.
00:20:05.580You know, he doesn't want to be reminded of that.