Juno News - Carney COMPLETELY DISMISSES U.S. trade talks

00:00:00.000 And welcome to Straight Up with Mark Petroni. I am your host.

00:00:07.520 Well, a long-awaited pipeline announcement may finally be at hand.

00:00:11.640 According to sources, Alberta and the Kearney government are set to announce a new energy sector deal this coming Thursday.

00:00:20.520 It'll come in the form of a memorandum of understanding that includes a reference to a new pipeline through northern B.C. to the coast.

00:00:27.900 Now, just last week, we heard from a parade of Liberal Party climate hardliners throw cold water on the rumor that a deal was imminent,

00:00:37.020 including an outright dismissal of any thought of lifting the ban on tanker traffic off the coast of B.C.

00:00:44.300 Ves Sobat is our guest today, and he'll be on hand shortly to talk about all of that.

00:00:49.380 Well, no word on any resumption in trade talks between Canada and the United States.

00:00:54.120 And the prime minister responded with a terse who cares when he was asked about it. Let's listen.

00:01:00.520 Who cares? I mean, it's a detail. It's a detail. I spoke to him. I'll speak to him again when it matters.

00:01:06.520 I look forward to speaking to the president soon, but I don't have a burning issue to speak with the president about right now.

00:01:14.180 When America wants to come back and have the discussions on the trade side, we will have those discussions.

00:01:20.380 Now, conservative MP Melissa Lansman responded to Carney's who cares in this way in this post.

00:01:26.940 The prime minister has finally given up, pretending he has any grip on Canada's relationship with the United States.

00:01:35.040 And just as expected, he is now shrugging off the one promise he made about it, which also happens to be the one he's completely botched.

00:01:46.720 Botched for auto workers, farmers, exporters, forestry towns, and every family and every border community that depends on trade.

00:01:56.620 Well, one thing that the prime minister does care about is carbon emissions. Carney told the United Nations those energy-hungry AI centers being built need to be carbon neutral. Let's listen.

00:02:09.660 I want to highlight a few other issues before my time is up.

00:02:13.060 First, the importance of high-integrity standardized carbon markets that have the potential to shift capital flows to those most affected by climate change.

00:02:21.860 We can catalyze enormous private sector demand for these credits by committing AI data center development to be carbon neutral.

00:02:31.440 We need a price on carbon. I salute my neighbor, the European Union, in pricing carbon and putting in place a CBAM.

00:02:40.260 Well, others are giving up on carbon zero agendas, but not Carney.

00:02:45.200 By 2030, it is estimated that AI artificial intelligence will drive 30 to 50% of all new electricity needs. Think about that.

00:02:55.620 And with its natural gas deposits, Canada could play a big role in providing that energy needed to power those AI data centers.

00:03:03.340 Well, the new poll by Leger found that more than two-thirds of new Canadians want fewer than 300,000 new immigrants brought into Canada every year.

00:03:11.840 40% of new Canadians want less than 100,000 newcomers brought into the country every year.

00:03:20.960 And our guest today is Vest Sobad. He is an engineer. He spent 40 years working in the plastics industry.

00:03:27.940 He's a business executive. He's also executive director of the Coalition for Concerned Manufacturers and Businesses of Canada.

00:03:34.620 Welcome, Vest.

00:03:35.820 Great to be on. Thanks for having me.

00:03:38.160 Great set, by the way. I love your set.

00:03:40.220 Well, thank you. Yes.

00:03:44.500 Let's talk a little bit about, well, we'll get to J.D. Vance in a minute, but we've got to hit this oil news, this deal, alleged deal,

00:03:54.200 that has apparently been signed but not officially announced.

00:03:58.800 And that's going to happen on Thursday, where there's going to be some kind of ceremony in which Mark Carney and Alberta Premier Daniel Smith are going to get together and sign this agreement that will apparently greenlight a pipeline.

00:04:14.440 We've been waiting for this project for a long time through northern B.C. out to the coast.

00:04:18.700 But it's just a story right now. What do you make of it?

00:04:23.080 Well, I know Danielle very well. Wonderful, wonderful premier. My goodness, she's serving Alberta well. 0.53

00:04:29.880 And if anybody can do it, it would be Danielle Smith.

00:04:34.440 Now, I always am very reserved when I, you know, when I hear that there's a deal.

00:04:41.360 We heard a couple of Thursdays ago that there was a deal with the Americans on the trade issue.

00:04:48.240 And, you know, it sort of fell apart. It didn't happen.

00:04:51.100 A lot of things can happen between now and Thursday.

00:04:53.960 But I really hope that they do have a deal.

00:04:57.320 That would be wonderful for Canada to be able to get our oil to the West Coast to be able to serve other markets would be absolutely tremendous.

00:05:05.980 Now, I, of course, the devil is always in the details.

00:05:13.180 What restrictions are there?

00:05:15.200 If you recall, Mark, earlier on, EB said that he wasn't in favor of a deal.

00:05:21.020 You recall Elizabeth May saying last week that there's no way there's going to be more tanker traffic on the West Coast.

00:05:30.600 So there was a lot of there's a lot of opposition to this.

00:05:34.980 But but I think if if it comes to fruition, it will be wonderful for Canada.

00:05:41.140 It'll be extra revenue. It'll be extra taxes.

00:05:44.300 It'll be something that can go towards, you know, social programs and it'll help ratchet down the temperature right now, because the the talk of Western separation is very, very high right now.

00:05:57.820 I think you probably saw some of the crowds that were in Edmonton and Calgary over the weekend.

00:06:03.420 They were very large. And there is a real sentiment that Alberta wants to go it alone.

00:06:11.000 Now, whether they have a majority of people thinking so, I don't know, but it's always a concern.

00:06:18.480 Yeah, there's I mean, I take your point about what kind of measures that she will have had to agree to, like decarbonizing and all this sort of thing.

00:06:27.640 You know, how onerous will those be? I mean, if she agrees to it, then presumably they're doable.

00:06:34.780 But if you're raising the cost of production, then you could almost sabotage the project by imposing so many restrictions that it's just not economically feasible.

00:06:45.080 What a great point. What a great point. And you use the word decarbonization.

00:06:49.220 Mark, I just hate that word. I can't stand it because it's fictitious.

00:06:53.040 How do you decarbonize oil? You cannot. It is a word that comes out of George Orwell's 1984 book.

00:07:03.280 You cannot decarbonize oil. Oil is carbon, for goodness sake.

00:07:07.920 So these semantics really scare me. You know, I'm just reading through Mark Carney's book Values, and there's so much on sustainability there.

00:07:16.580 It reminds me of two meetings I sat in at a luncheon at the Bank of Canada many years ago with Mark Carney and a number of other people.

00:07:26.520 And all meeting, all he did was talk about sustainability.

00:07:29.780 And I thought to myself, I must be at the wrong meeting.

00:07:32.300 We're here to talk about the Canadian economy and interest rates.

00:07:36.100 Why are we talking about sustainability?

00:07:37.460 And all of us got up, maybe there's 12 of us at the time, got up, left that luncheon and thought, what did we just see?

00:07:46.300 That's what scares me.

00:07:47.660 So I'm very hopeful that Daniel was able to somehow navigate those very treacherous waters.

00:07:55.400 But judging by the book and his past performance, I'm not sure that this is a deal that will be beneficial for Alberta in the long run.

00:08:09.120 And what about the tanker traffic ban?

00:08:12.000 I mean, do you lift that? Do you partially lift it?

00:08:14.600 I think the Globe and Mail reported last week that there would be a limited lifting of the tanker ban as it now exists, which would allow for traffic.

00:08:25.380 I mean, it's still going on.

00:08:26.600 The American ships are going through that same area.

00:08:30.320 I mean, Elizabeth May says, well, it's not exactly the same area because this, that, and the other thing.

00:08:34.380 But I mean, I'd like to do something with the tanker ban.

00:08:37.200 And then there's no point building a pipeline, right?

00:08:41.680 Because you've got to ship it.

00:08:43.240 You've got to move it, right?

00:08:45.220 100%.

00:08:45.780 And, you know, there's a tanker going up to Alaska from Washington every day and a tanker coming back from Alaska every day.

00:08:54.540 One is full and one is empty.

00:08:56.100 But the fact that the Americans have easy access to the West Coast and can ship their product back to their markets is exactly what Canada should have as well.

00:09:08.700 I mean, I don't understand why we are so desperate to handcuff our own economic growth.

00:09:16.860 That still, to this day, does not make any sense to me.

00:09:21.300 Canada should be the richest country in the world.

00:09:23.780 We've talked about that in the past on your radio show.

00:09:27.540 And we should be richer than the Kuwaitis, than the folks in the UAE.

00:09:34.200 We should be at par with Saudi Arabia, for goodness sakes. 0.99

00:09:38.340 And yet we're not because we handcuff ourselves.

00:09:41.240 We handcuff our ability to bring product to market.

00:09:46.680 And it'll be interesting to see if this deal has an exemption to that.

00:09:51.740 That's really, I think, what has to happen.

00:09:53.520 Remember, too, Bill C-69 is a horrendous bill that essentially stops Canadian production and development of our own resources.

00:10:06.660 He's going to have to have many of his exemptions revolving around Bill C-69 as well, wouldn't you think?

00:10:13.980 Well, yeah.

00:10:15.000 I mean, logically speaking, the No More Pipelines bill will have to be changed or scrapped or whatever in order for that project to move forward.

00:10:22.940 But it'll be very interesting to see what happens on Thursday when we get a first glimpse at this because, of course, Carney himself is kind of navigating the two sides of his party.

00:10:36.840 There are still some people there who believe that a pipeline would be a good thing.

00:10:39.860 I suspect they're the quiet ones, very quiet ones, keeping to themselves, keeping their heads down.

00:10:45.060 And then you've got the much louder hardliners on the climate front, you know, the Nathaniel Erskine Smiths of the world and the Stephen Gilbos who say, no way, Jose, we're not going to build this thing.

00:10:59.020 And they want to throw as many impediments, you know, towards the building of it as possible.

00:11:04.300 Well, you've got to come up with a deal with indigenous people. 1.00

00:11:07.040 You know, you've got to make it palatable to them.

00:11:09.180 You've got to have B.C. on side.

00:11:11.060 Well, we all know B.C. is not going to be on side.

00:11:13.080 So, I mean, there's all sorts of questions around this thing because, you know, what about David Eby?

00:11:19.160 He just came out last week and was fervent in his opposition to that pipeline saying, well, if you do that, you know, it'll mess up my deal with the indigenous peoples and their project that we have in the works, which is contingent on keeping the tanker bad.

00:11:34.380 So, I mean, this was only last week and Eby has not been privy to some of the talks that have been going on.

00:11:41.120 In fact, he was complaining about it last week saying, you know, I know there's talks going on between Premiers Mo and Daniel Smith and the Kearney government, and I'm not part of it.

00:11:53.760 And so, you know, Thursday's going to be an interesting day if it works out that there is an announcement.

00:11:59.640 What do you think?

00:12:00.080 Well, you mentioned Stephen Gilboa, and I was fascinated to hear that he had gone down to Brazil for those UN environmental talks recently, even though that's not in his portfolio.

00:12:13.200 And he went down on the government dime for that.

00:12:16.180 That struck me as awfully odd, I think.

00:12:22.100 And, of course, Stephen Gilboa is the minister who said he doesn't want any more new highways across Canada, right?

00:12:29.460 And, of course, he doesn't want, you know, oil exports from Canada.

00:12:35.280 If you recall his lineage, he came from Greenpeace.

00:12:38.180 He hung from the CN Tower many years ago and literally cost about half a million dollars because he got stranded hanging from a rope trying to hang a Greenpeace banner.

00:12:50.400 And the police had to come in, the helicopters had to come in, they had to rescue him, and that's how he was charged, and he had a criminal record as a result of it.

00:13:01.340 And still, he managed to become a minister in the Trudeau government.

00:13:06.360 Certainly, he's no fan of Canada developing its own resources.

00:13:12.200 So, the question becomes, why was he down there?

00:13:14.780 Is he down there to brief the prime minister?

00:13:17.400 Was he down there to share the latest with E.B.?

00:13:20.760 I don't know, but I think that's a wild card, and it will not be helpful.

00:13:27.140 Remember, the United Nations, years ago, because of more strong, the Undersecretary General of the United Nations,

00:13:36.260 started this whole environmental UNEP movement as a means to make up for the money that was lost when the Americans decided they weren't going to fund the United Nations temporarily for a short period of time.

00:13:51.800 So, it was more strong who came up with this whole notion of carbon trading, and it was supposed to be a means of funding the United Nations in the event that the U.S. no longer funded the UN.

00:14:06.160 And it has nothing truly to do with the environment.

00:14:10.580 It had everything to do with a financial arrangement with the UN.

00:14:17.040 So, I find it hard to believe that it's going to be a deal that makes business sense, but I do have a lot of respect for Premier Smith.

00:14:27.900 And if anybody can do this, I think Danielle can.

00:14:33.520 And once we see that deal, then we'll see whether or not that dampens some of the talk about, you know, independence out there, which you talked about earlier.

00:14:42.740 Right.

00:14:43.060 But if they see that this deal is, you know, you look at the devils of the details, and they see that, no, this is going to push, it's not going to be workable, it's not going to be economically feasible, then it may push things the other direction and say, they're trying to screw us over, and our own Premier is in league with them.

00:15:03.360 I mean, that could happen, so that's why it's so important that we see this deal when, you know, when it eventually is announced on Thursday, and I'll be keeping a close eye on that.

00:15:13.640 We also got to talk a little bit about AI, because that, of course, is powered by electricity, and, you know, it's an enormous, you know, enormously needing, you know, these data centers require all sorts of power.

00:15:28.700 I mean, Canada is well positioned to provide that power, unfortunately, you know, because of our regulations, because of the anti-oil and anti-energy, really, opponents in our country, we haven't really positioned ourselves very well, whereas the Americans have, and, you know, they're exploding in terms of the amount of investment going into these AI centers.

00:15:52.380 And, you know, they say that by 2030, it's going to demand between 30 and 50% of all new energy is going to have to go to power these AI data centers.

00:16:04.400 I mean, here's Canada perfectly positioned here to provide energy, you know, to power these things, and then you've got Carnage saying, well, no, it's got to be decarbonized.

00:16:12.380 You know, AI has to be sort of carbon friendly or neutral, carbon neutral.

00:16:19.760 I mean, here, he's blowing it, you know.

00:16:23.640 Wouldn't it be wonderful if we had AI centers in Canada?

00:16:26.920 But, of course, we can't if we have a carbon tax and if we're rationing electricity all over the place.

00:16:34.100 We have so much natural gas that can create electricity.

00:16:38.340 Again, wouldn't it be wonderful if those barriers for natural gas plants would be removed so that we could take advantage of and build some of those AI plants?

00:16:49.140 I know Microsoft years ago looked at North Bay as a center for their computing capabilities because there are some old bunkers up there that were empty during the Second World War.

00:17:02.520 And at the time, Mayor Vic Fidelli of North Bay walked Bill Gates and Microsoft through those operations.

00:17:11.920 They never decided to take them up on the offer.

00:17:16.480 But that's the kind of thing, I think, that would help growth in Canada.

00:17:21.860 We have so much natural gas.

00:17:24.980 I think we're the third largest natural gas reserves in the world.

00:17:30.140 It would be wonderful for us to be able to supply some of that electricity through natural gas generation.

00:17:37.560 And yet the city of Toronto right now is trying to minimize natural gas and new subdivisions.

00:17:43.860 Oh, you can't use those.

00:17:45.040 You have to use electricity, which is generated how?

00:17:50.660 Our strategy seems to be very dysfunctional.

00:17:55.200 And I am hopeful, I'm very, very hopeful that we start becoming more pragmatic.

00:18:03.100 You know, most people don't know this, but five to 10 percent of all electricity use is just used in pushing water from the source to the tap in a city.

00:18:16.900 That's electricity. You need electricity to push that water to a tap. 0.99

00:18:22.380 That's the same when we talk about AI.

00:18:25.820 AI needs enormous amount of electricity to drive those engines.

00:18:30.060 And one of the reasons Ontario was so wealthy so quickly at the turn of the century, you'll recall,

00:18:37.120 is the wonderful hydroelectric generating stations down in Niagara Falls that Nikola Tesla and George Westinghouse had built.

00:18:45.480 That gave us a superior advantage for the first half of the 20th century.

00:18:51.560 And that's the kind of visionary thinking we need.

00:18:54.860 That's the kind of we need technology that will help us generate wealth.

00:19:03.120 And so far, I'm not seeing that with Carney.

00:19:06.520 Carney keeps talking sustainability.

00:19:08.600 He keeps talking about carbon neutral.

00:19:12.440 He keeps talking about net zero.

00:19:16.940 Well, Mark, I can assure you, the only thing that's going to be net zero in 2050 is my wallet and your wallet.

00:19:26.160 The other thing is, of course, he gets asked periodically about trade talks.

00:19:30.140 And, you know, he just kind of just dribbled out of his mouth.

00:19:35.080 Who cares?

00:19:35.700 You know, somebody asked him if he had had any contact with Trump or if Trump was calling him back or they had any furtherance in moving on discussions around trade.

00:19:47.320 And so who cares?

00:19:48.240 You know, I mean, what do you make of that?

00:19:51.140 To me, it shows that he's getting annoyed.

00:19:53.820 He doesn't want to be asked about that.

00:19:55.480 He doesn't want to be reminded about his failure to live up to his key promise, which was, you know, a victorious deal with Trump by July 21st.

00:20:05.580 You know, he doesn't want to be reminded of that.

00:20:07.440 What do you think?

00:20:08.020 Well, it's very odd.

00:20:09.940 I mean, they are our biggest customer.

00:20:11.980 Like, we need to treat the Americans with respect.

00:20:15.360 You know, for 40 years, I've been going to the United States and dealing with businessmen in the U.S.

00:20:20.220 I can tell you the relationship with the American people and the American businessmen with Canadians has always been very respectful.

00:20:30.580 And, you know, I've just loved the American customer.

00:20:35.580 I've loved the American gumption.

00:20:40.600 I've loved the American entrepreneurship.

00:20:43.680 He should be nurturing that and trying to make that better.

00:20:48.580 Okay, we do 75% of our exports to the United States right now.

00:20:52.260 Great.

00:20:52.880 Let's make it 80.

00:20:54.420 Let's not talk about trying to change and shift our exports to Europe because they will not buy our stuff.

00:21:02.220 We've they're too far away.

00:21:04.560 They already have their logistical supply chains in place.

00:21:12.100 The most logical customer for us is America.

00:21:16.140 Let's make it bigger, stronger, better.

00:21:19.640 And, you know, take a look at the the president of Mexico.

00:21:23.700 You know, she's been doing that. 0.59

00:21:25.040 In fact, Mark, you know, we used to be the biggest supplier to America.

00:21:29.900 Now we're the second biggest.

00:21:31.380 Why?

00:21:31.980 Because Mexico has taken over. 0.98

00:21:34.080 They've taken our spot because they were focused on the ball.

00:21:38.420 They were focused on business.

00:21:39.960 And they've been very, very effective at displacing us.

00:21:43.980 We need to focus all our energies on displacing them so that we become America's number one customer yet again. 0.93

00:21:52.420 And you don't become America's biggest customer by insulting the president of the United States.

00:21:59.200 Yeah, Mexico has become the number one buyer of U.S. goods.

00:22:03.540 We used to be number one.

00:22:05.380 And so that undermines our case, you know, with the Americans, which is to say, hey, you know, you need us, too.

00:22:12.940 We're inseparable.

00:22:14.580 We're, you know, economic economically dependent on each other.

00:22:18.740 You know, so the fact that we now buy left in Mexico, you know, I think hurts our case.

00:22:24.760 Anyway, last word to you.

00:22:26.600 Well, you had mentioned J.D. Vance and his comments that really we shouldn't be blaming the Americans for our problems.

00:22:36.000 I wholeheartedly agree.

00:22:38.160 We should be focused on making Canada better.

00:22:41.200 We are so fortunate to be their neighbors.

00:22:44.860 And what we need to do is continue to see if we can make one plus one equals three with our American neighbors.

00:22:52.560 Find out what they need.

00:22:55.120 Find out how geopolitically we can help them.

00:22:59.280 And make ourselves an ally that they cannot live without.

00:23:08.260 That's the direction we need to go.

00:23:11.280 And I don't think Carney is there yet.

00:23:14.140 I think it's on purpose.

00:23:16.060 I don't think he wants a trade deal quite yet.

00:23:18.360 And for that, I don't understand why, but that says to me that he needs to refocus.

00:23:25.920 He needs to work for the Canadian people, not for his friends in the UK and the EU and the WEF. 0.54

00:23:35.400 And Brookfield.

00:23:36.700 And Brookfield.

00:23:37.960 And Brookfield.

00:23:38.660 That's so, Bob.

00:23:39.400 Thank you so much for coming on the show.

00:23:40.820 Great to have you on here.

00:23:42.320 Great to be on.

00:23:43.040 Thank you so much.

00:23:44.500 And that is it for this edition of Straight Up.

00:23:46.360 Appreciate you tuning in, my friends.

00:23:47.800 Let's do it again soon, shall we?

00:23:49.380 Bye-bye for now.

00:23:50.000 Bye-bye.

00:23:54.460 Bye-bye.

00:23:54.840 Bye-bye.

00:23:55.640 Bye-bye.

00:23:58.800 Bye-bye.

00:24:00.060 Bye-bye.

00:24:03.580 Bye-bye.

00:24:04.060 Bye.

00:24:10.320 Bye-bye.

Juno News - November 24, 2025

Carney COMPLETELY DISMISSES U.S. trade talks

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