00:02:14.300The off-ramp that Carney is thought to have been talking about is the court decision that quashed a citizen-led referendum on Alberta independence.
00:02:23.760Carney also declined to offer any details about a secret security arrangement his government has signed with China.
00:02:30.660And you said previously that there are guardrails in place in Canada against foreign interference, yet your government has not released publicly the RCMP MOU signed with Chinese police.
00:03:05.240But that's our policy and that's where we stay to.
00:03:08.580Illegal Chinese police stations in Toronto, Vancouver, and Montreal are suspected of harassing and monitoring Canadian citizens of Chinese descent.
00:03:18.900Last year, Carney called China Canada's biggest security threat.
00:03:23.820Well, Stephen Gilbo has made it official he's quitting the Liberal Caucus and stepping down as MP for Laurier-Saint-Marie.
00:03:30.800In a letter, Gilbo said he'll pursue other ways of fighting climate change.
00:03:38.580Our guest today is James Bazan, Conservative MP for Selkirk Interlake Eastman.
00:03:43.460He's also the Conservative Defence Critic.
00:04:03.540I was actually at Kansak when the Prime Minister made the announcement.
00:04:07.040I think he made the decision, hey, I'm going to go to CANSEC and give a speech and pat myself on the back and got in front of the crowd and said, I better announce something.
00:04:15.320And so he announced that they are entering into an agreement, but with no details.
00:04:18.960We don't know how many of the global eyes we're buying.
00:04:22.820We don't know when the delivery of these will actually take place.
00:04:26.520We don't know what the cost of the taxpayer is.
00:04:29.480And, you know, so it was very ambiguous.
00:04:32.280So at the end of the day, it's much ado about nothing.
00:04:34.680Well, there's also the issue of the Americans. And I have to ask whether this decision is more political than anything else. The prime minister has promised, and you know this, to basically reduce our reliance, our spending on defense suppliers from the United States.
00:04:56.700So here we are now opting for Swedish company's surveillance system, aerial surveillance system.
00:05:04.180And so is that an issue for you, that maybe this is more political than it is practical?
00:05:11.200Well, what we've seen from Mark Carney and these liberals is that they've turned everything into partisanship and politics.
00:05:19.340And every chance they got to take a shot at the United States, they do.
00:05:24.200It's unfortunate because the Canada-U.S. relationship will survive Mark Carney and Donald Trump, and this will continue on for eons to go.
00:05:36.480So, you know, we have to do first and foremost, we have to buy what's right for the Canadian Armed Forces, what's in the best interest of protecting our sovereignty and being a reliable ally.
00:05:48.460You know, I think that the other main competitor there was still using a Bombardier platform, the Global 6500.
00:05:59.860So, you know, Montreal-based Bombardier and their world-renowned 6500-class jet liner is something that I think was going to win regardless.
00:06:14.700You know, they ruled out some time ago about using the E7 from Boeing. So, you know, really,
00:06:22.620we're looking at the two options. So the L3 Harris option versus a sob option. So it is,0.70
00:06:29.580comes down to that, you know, did they really do a competition? Not really. Did they sole sources?
00:06:35.020It's not really that either. So at the end of the day, we got the worst of both worlds.
00:06:41.020You know, at least with the soldiers, you've got some certainty and you've got
00:06:45.100a timeline. We don't have that. And if they had an actual competition,
00:06:48.620we'd know that we were getting the best of the platforms that were available.
00:06:51.820And that wasn't really done either. And it seems to me like this was a rushed
00:06:55.340announcement and they're trying to make the Defense Investment Agency, you know,
00:07:01.020which is another layer of bureaucracy, trying to make it look like it's more than it is.
00:07:04.860So, again, this is something that's a little bit of, you know, a shell game that's going on by the Liberals with no actual deliverables or increasing capability for the Canadian Armed Forces.
00:07:18.420Yeah, I mean, there's also the question, as you mentioned, about the F-35s and where we're going to go with that.
00:07:24.320But I'm wondering, I mean, considering the timing of firsts, we're in the midst of negotiations with the Americans over the extension of Yuzma.
00:07:33.440And there's a danger that a decision like this, knowing how prickly they are in Washington, that this will sour relations even further.
00:10:25.260without running the proper competition
00:10:26.900to ensure we get what we need and protect the Canadian taxpayer from having money, you know,
00:10:33.220get thrown out the window for a capability that may not be in the best interest of our security.
00:10:39.220You know, we're still talking that this would be, you know, when Carney was 1970 or when Carney
00:10:44.380would turn 75 years old, that we'd actually get the capability. So again, it was
00:10:49.900It's a strange time to throw this out, especially knowing that, you know, we've had some blowback from the Americans by what they've decided to do on the suspension of the permanent joint board on defense and knowing that, you know, there's ongoing aggravation.
00:11:13.120so why keep poking the bear? And I guess at the end of the day, if this is the best platform,
00:11:20.960show us how it's the best platform. If it's going to be done through a proper competition,
00:11:25.200and this is the AWACS system that we need to patrol our Arctic and our maritime approaches
00:11:32.080and have that ability to see farther out another 650 kilometers to ensure that we can deal with
00:11:41.440any incoming threats then prove that to us first rather than making these rather you know off-handed
00:11:49.440announcements with really at the end of the day potentially dangerous outcomes when it comes to
00:11:56.000our bilateral relationship. Yeah last question. Carney has also spoken about strengthening ties
00:12:02.160with Europe. We now have this other news about an LNG agreement possibly in the works between
00:12:09.840canada and germany to a deal that would supply lng from bc to uh to germany is this the new world
00:12:18.880order that mark carney has been talking about uh is this part of what he has been appearing to aim
00:12:26.160at which is decoupled from the united states focus on the continent of europe is that how you see it
00:12:32.480As, you know, Pierre Pauly said, we were quite critical of the Trudeau government when they,
00:12:40.080four years ago, said there was no business case to sell Canadian energy products to Europe.
00:12:45.680Germany, in very short order, when they realized that they couldn't be using Russian oil and gas,
00:12:52.160came to Canada looking for a supply. And the Liberals shot that down. Mark Carney supported
00:12:58.560that decision and only now because of the ongoing challenges that he's helping to create dealing
00:13:08.240with the White House, we see them finally pivoting back to what is actually in the best interest of
00:13:15.120Canadians of our energy sector and that there is a powerful business case for it. You know, Pierre
00:13:20.960was in Germany just a couple of months ago and saw what they were able to accomplish in under
00:13:26.720200 days and building a brand new LNG import terminal to fuel their economy and ensure that
00:13:34.440their houses are heated in the wintertime. That should be Canadian LNG moving over there rather
00:13:40.880than other competitors. And so whether we get it to them via ports on the West Coast or ports on
00:13:48.880the East Coast, we have to get it into the European market and displace Russian oil and gas.
00:13:54.060James Bazan, thank you so much for coming on the show. We appreciate it.
00:14:09.200Well, you're aware of what the prime minister just announced, which is, I guess, negotiations now underway with Swedish aerospace giant Saab over the purchase of an aerial surveillance system.
00:14:24.060Well, I guess my reaction to this is that I think that it was predictable, given the government's defense industrial strategy and the way that the prime minister has talked about pivoting away from the United States.
00:14:39.340So you either build it at home or you build it in partnership.
00:14:43.220And in this case, everybody's talking about Saab, but the airframe and the aircraft is actually Bombardier.
00:14:49.860So this is kind of, if you were looking for a trophy piece for the defense industrial strategy and for the government's new procurement plans away from the United States, this would probably be it.
00:15:06.420And what about the timing of it coming during negotiations, trade negotiations with the Americans, knowing how sensitive they are about this sort of thing?
00:15:17.080You know, do you think it might undermine our trade talks aimed at extending KUSMA?
00:15:25.560Yeah, I don't think that there's any doubt that this will be another speed bump in the process.
00:15:30.620I mean, the Americans are already worked up about F-35 and with good reason.
00:15:35.300And now the E-7 Wedgetail, which is essentially the gold standard in terms of an AWACS aircraft, has been bypassed for Saab and directed contract to Bombardier.
00:15:52.620And could it be a finger in the eye of Trump?
00:15:56.980I mean, he could have waited till after negotiations were completed if he wanted to do this and said he does it now.
00:16:04.700I mean, this could also have been a bargaining chip in our negotiations to sweeten the pie for them,
00:16:11.380to maybe encourage them to extend the trade deal, which the president has already expressed reservations about doing it.
00:16:19.500It just, the timing of this doesn't seem to make much sense to me, given everything else that's going on.
00:16:27.020Well, I think the timing is related to a number of factors.
00:16:30.000There's one, I am told that there was resistance in the Royal Canadian Air Force to the purchase of this AWACS aircraft.
00:16:41.820They much preferred the Boeing E-7 Wedgetail, which has commonality in terms of airframes and spare parts with the P-8 Poseidon fleet.
00:16:54.380so that there would be some savings there and some ease in maintaining the two different
00:17:00.460fleets. I think that this comes on what's likely to be just ahead of a NATO decision,
00:17:11.260probably on AWACS aircraft. It also seems to be, you know, that there's another shoe to drop and
00:17:19.020that other shoe is going to be F-35. I have no doubt that the government is now going to
00:17:24.980stick the Royal Canadian Air Force with two different fighter fleets, which means that
00:17:30.240they're going to have to buy two different simulators, two different sets of spare parts,
00:17:34.500two different training programs, maybe different logistics on runways and hangars. So this is
00:17:42.160to be uh i think what's coming is going to be an announcement on on gripping to go with uh with uh
00:17:50.000awax um so i think that there are a number of factors that are playing out but i don't think
00:17:56.960it's by accident that canada's uh u.s trade minister is on his way to washington next week
00:18:04.560to see what he can salvage out of this is it more political than practical i mean
00:18:11.040I mean, if in fact they do move ahead with not the F-35, but the other jet, the other plane, I mean, it doesn't seem altogether practical, given, as you said, you'll have two different planes to deal with.
00:18:27.900I mean, which leads me to question whether or not this is really about politics.
00:19:31.480And I've said it before, I think, on your show, but in the air and at sea, second best gets you killed.
00:19:39.660So, you know, Canadians can judge on that basis, but I don't think that saddling the Air Force with two fighter fleets is a wise idea.
00:19:51.640And, you know, Global Eye, the Saab AWACS aircraft, is a good aircraft.
00:19:58.820But from my understanding, it doesn't have the in-air aerial refueling capability that the Wedgetail would have, which means that it has limits in its range.
00:20:10.640Yeah, and I take your point that this sends a signal to Europe saying, you know, we want to cozy up with you.
00:20:19.000I mean, we know that he has ties with Europe, to Europe, that I guess he obviously wants to encourage.
00:20:25.740He's got this kind of ongoing animosity with Trump.
00:20:29.800And so it seems that he wants to pivot in that direction, all well and good to buy defense products from them.
00:20:39.540But what are we going to get in return?
00:20:41.680You know, they're going to buy more of our cars.
00:20:45.060And then, of course, when you throw in this LNG deal, then it starts to make sense maybe in that regard,
00:20:52.040because there was this Bloomberg story,
00:21:40.200And if you want spare parts, it's a lot easier to get spare parts
00:21:44.060uh from your your principal ally when you're you're going into a danger zone now we can make
00:21:50.480the argument with bombardier that you know maybe we can get those spare parts faster for the air
00:21:56.000frame and the aircraft but uh i think that at the end of the day uh canada would have been much
00:22:02.540better to uh marry up with the u.s options and the fact of the matter is it's not just nato it's
00:22:08.860also NORAD. There's questions of interoperability, the questions of compatibility and upgrade of
00:22:16.840different systems. And what happens in 10 years if the Gripen or the Global Eye runs into a glitch
00:22:27.400and isn't upgradable? What do we do then? You know that the American systems are going to be
00:22:32.840upgradable for 20 years. You know, we're already in a situation with the CF-18 where it's different
00:22:42.260parts of the aircraft are not upgradable. I mean, we're flying them to the end of their life,
00:22:47.920just like they flew the Tudors to the end of theirs. You know, the F-35 has been going on for
00:22:55.540a long time, and it's a major impediment, I think, to Canada-US relations.
00:23:02.380Yeah, and here we have a prime minister that could end up locking us into contracts that we can't get out of.
00:23:09.140I mean, he could be out of power in a few years, but the fact that these contracts are not going to be signed, meaning that Canada might have to pay a huge penalty just to get out of it.
00:23:21.500I mean, that's another aspect to this.
00:23:23.660know if you make decisions based on political expediency that seemed to make sense at the time
00:23:31.340because trump is president you know you end up paying dearly for it if you want to pivot out of
00:23:39.340that you know like two years down the road last word to you keep in mind one trump's only there
00:23:46.380for another two years and then we're probably looking at a democratic president and so you know
00:23:52.620there's there's going to be a change in washington and is it wise to make these decisions
00:23:57.140based on the fact that you don't like the current president of the united states it's not the first
00:24:01.660time that canadian prime ministers and u.s presidents haven't gotten along usually they
00:24:07.820can manage those differences but there doesn't seem to be a willingness on either part right
00:24:12.820now to manage those differences canada's or the united states the other thing i would say
00:24:18.160very quickly is that, you know, keep in mind that political expediency and defense procurement in
00:24:23.860Canada has had a number of disastrous examples. You know, Sam Hughes's Ross Rifle, his secretary's
00:24:33.940shovel shield. And then, you know, one of the biggest examples and most glaring was Jean
00:24:40.720Gretchen using EH-101 as an election issue in 1994, saying he would cancel the program and
00:24:49.120write zero helicopters. You know, 1998, he has to buy a fleet of 50 in EH-101s named the Cormorant.
00:24:57.260And then we got stuck with the Cyclone. So the government wasn't embarrassed again