00:08:07.040You know, it's just, they're trying to,
00:08:09.600And, you know, when you do that stuff, you set yourself up for people not taking you seriously, you know.
00:08:16.960And, I mean, maybe the liberal and NDP viewers and listeners love it, but you're alienating, you know, 40% of the population that you don't need to.
00:08:27.580And then, just a segue, you complain that you're not making any money, that your audiences are shrinking, and you go to the government and ask for subsidies.
00:14:17.760But that doesn't mean you shouldn't be trying, you know, like these are, these are things you sort of, it's impossible to live a good moral life.
00:14:27.200So I'm just going to stop trying, you know, the heck with it.
00:14:32.240And the fact that they now get the funding and I know lots of journalists who are going to get the funding and who do get the funding and they just hate it.
00:14:43.600Yeah. I mean, they just personally, they just hate it because they get even the ones that work for organizations that don't get funded anymore. The public assumes they're all funded. So they get like, oh, you've been pimped out by your boss. You're just a liberal mouthpiece and that sort of stuff. No, they hate that.
00:15:06.600i mean they can do their job they can be pure as the driven snow but everybody that's still going
00:15:11.080to hang over their heads they and the amazing thing is the the employers just don't care0.70
00:15:16.840no because they they get they get the money now whether anybody reads or listens to a single damn0.90
00:15:24.680thing you say you know like you can have zero listeners you can have zero readers and you're
00:15:32.520still going to get the money it's just production base that's the crtc price now right that's their
00:15:38.440business case it's not about getting ratings it's not about selling newspapers it's about pleasing
00:15:44.200your new boss the well yeah i mean that's what if that's what people that's what people think
00:15:51.160right and and and so what when you talk about objectivity there you would think they would be
00:15:58.440being extremely careful to guard against that right you wouldn't think you wouldn't you i mean
00:16:05.000if i was if i was still a working journalist i would be you know not going crazy about it
00:16:11.880but it would always be on my mind yeah right you know like if i if i don't get a conservative
00:16:16.920voice in this story right or if i don't get this guy's perspective or if i pull a stunt like we
00:16:22.440were just watching right what are people going to think what are what's where where people are going
00:16:29.000to go directly where you went right on it and say you're just being you just you're just taking
00:16:36.600daddy's money and doing what daddy wants right and that's yeah that's that's a crazy position
00:16:44.280to be in and now it's permanent and it's everybody yeah right well almost everybody right so right
00:16:50.840Well, the independent guys are not getting a nickel and they're, you know, telling everybody that we're not being paid by, we're not taking a dime from government.
00:17:00.520The Juno News is of the world, the Black Lives Reporters of the world, and the Rebel News is, you know, of the world.
00:17:06.500There aren't many of them, but it's that group and others who say, trust us because we're not taking government money.
00:17:14.200Unfortunately, it skews the market, doesn't it?
00:17:16.140I mean, how long can you hold out and compete for staff, right?
00:17:22.440I mean, when your competition has, you know, a 30 and when you throw in the other subsidies, you know, like the Google Fund.
00:17:30.800I mean, the Google Fund's different, but the Canada Periodical Fund, the Local Journalism Initiative, all that sort of stuff.
00:17:38.540And if you're in Quebec, you get, you know, sort of another labor tax credit.
00:17:42.580So almost your entire salary is paid by one government or the other.
00:17:47.460How do you compete against that, right?
00:17:50.160And how do we get the innovators and the startups that we need?
00:17:56.020Would your operation, would Juno News be able to launch in this environment now, right?
00:18:02.180I mean, with that much competition and that sort of stuff, or how long can you hold out before somebody finally says,
00:18:08.300guys you know we just we just lost two good reporters who went someplace else because they
00:18:15.260could pay them more and we can't afford that we can't compete on salaries because our you know
00:18:20.380these guys are subsidized and that sort of stuff or how do we hire air news people still want fair
00:18:25.980news though that they do gravitating towards organizations that are not dependent on government
00:18:31.460that's the appeal now right well it should be it should be yeah but you know i like i was talking
00:18:36.660to jesse brown at canadaland the other day and they're another holdout right um they have you
00:18:42.820know a different world view than than juno news for instance but they've been very principled on
00:18:47.860this file and he's like he's like it's getting harder and harder right western standards started
00:18:53.380off not taking the money and then eventually derek just had to say i can't compete unless i do right
00:19:00.740and i'm not sure if i was in his shoes that i might not have had to do the same thing when
00:19:06.420When you're the publisher of a product, you've got to take, I mean, you've got to meet your bottom line.
00:19:46.140I mean, that's the big, absolutely, you're bang on.
00:19:48.820The thing is, at the end of the day, the more money you take, the less people trust you.
00:19:56.660And you know, independent life in media, that, I mean, trust is what media depends on.
00:20:02.960That's the billboards used to say, I'm sure in Halifax one day, there was maybe there a picture of Mark Petroni up there and it said, Halifax is most trusted news, right?
00:20:12.620The Calvary Herald, when I was, you know, publisher there and editor there, we used to have billboards around town, pictures of our columnists or reporters and that sort of stuff.