Juno News - November 12, 2025Carney to cave to Liberal left flank？
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Summary
In this week's episode of Straight Up With Mark P.M., we discuss the internal opposition to Prime Minister Mark Carney's budget from within his own party, the Palestinian flag flying in Toronto City Hall, and why Olivia Chow is not a pro-Israel person.
Transcript
00:00:00.000
And welcome to Straight Up. I am your host, Mark Petroni.
00:00:07.860
Well, there appear to be some cracks in the support level for Mark Carney's budget,
00:00:13.640
at least cracks in the PM's own caucus. And given their minority government status,
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the liberals can't really afford a fractured caucus. They'll need every vote they can get
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from their MPs and then some. The internal opposition to the budget is from members of
00:00:31.400
parliament liberals fixated on the idea that climate change is an existential threat to the
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planet. In his budget, the Green Agenda has taken a backseat to things like military spending,
00:00:44.500
and liberals like Nathaniel Erskine-Smith don't like it. Erskine-Smith has made his opposition
00:00:50.320
to the budget public. Let's listen. First, stalled climate action. Cutting tree planting,
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moving away from an emissions gap, winding down greener homes. No new money for climate action.
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On housing, it falls short of these specific promises in our platform. And it unfortunately
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falls well short, well short of the wartime effort that many of us thought we'd deliver.
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The budget adds $140 billion in new spending over five years, $90 billion net after savings,
00:01:17.400
and only 36% of the net new spending is capital. My kids shouldn't pay for today's military or for
00:01:23.500
me to save $400 of income taxes. We see the budget commit to a new inefficient fossil fuel subsidy for
00:01:29.240
LNG facilities. We do not need more public dollars chasing fossil fuels. Worse, we see major cuts.
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Major cuts of over $2.5 billion over four years to international development assistance.
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Overall, the budget meets the moment in part. But fairly, it does not live up to its promise of
00:01:45.380
generational investments. Hmm. That's a lot not to like for a government MP. Tomorrow,
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Prime Minister Carney is set to fast track new nation building projects. Now, according to sources,
00:01:57.960
those projects include mines, LNG, and a hydroelectric venture. So how serious is the green backlash in
00:02:07.140
Carney's own caucus? Well, in a column in the Toronto Sun, Brian Lilly writes,
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To get his majority, Carney needs to make sure that green believers like Jonathan Wilkinson and Stephen
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Gilboa and others don't bolt. Though it does appear he would like to replace both MPs. So far,
00:02:27.060
much of the left-wing media has either ignored or dismissed the story, opting instead for non-stop
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coverage of the alleged dissension in the Conservative caucus. This post by Toronto Star's Althea Raj,
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Nate has normalized independent thought. So it isn't news. In my opinion, it would be nice to see this
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from other MPs. Those outside of cabinet, their job is to hold the government to account. Well,
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they are the government. More independent thought means better reports, better debate, better policy,
00:03:02.700
better social cohesion as well. Well, I don't think that the Prime Minister would be too thrilled
00:03:08.880
about having more backbenchers attack the government's own budget. Toronto City Hall is preparing to fly the
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Palestinian flag for the first time in recognition of its Independence Day. The headline is Toronto City
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Hall to fly a Palestinian flag for the first time on November 17th, recognizing its Independence Day.
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Well, for some, particularly in the Jewish community, that flag is a symbol of terror,
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anti-Semitism, and a reminder of the October 7th attacks in which hundreds of innocent people were
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murdered and others taken hostage. George Ann Burke will no doubt have some thoughts. She'll be joining us
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shortly. Supporters of Palestine are cheering the move. Our Canadian Prime Minister, Mark Carney,
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recognized Palestine as an independent state last September, along with Britain and the UK. But
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some of our greatest allies, closest allies, including the United States and Israel, do not.
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And we are now joined by George Ann Burke, who's a communications strategist and political expert.
00:04:12.140
And always great chatting with George Ann. Welcome.
00:04:18.120
Let's start off with the Palestinian flag. Going up in Toronto, this is going to be in a few days' time.
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I mean, I don't know what Olivia Chow is thinking, but it sure tells us a lot about where her,
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you know, loyalties lie in terms of that whole matter involving Israel and Palestine. What do you think about that?
00:04:40.860
So I have a number of thoughts about this. First of all, we know where she stands. She's not a pro-Israel
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person. She's not even a pro-Jewish community person. She has avoided the Jewish community almost
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the entire time she's been in office. Whenever she showed up, she said ridiculous things and in some
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cases even been booed. So maybe she's not feeling so welcome anymore. And then she goes off to the
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NC, the National Council Canadian Muslim NCCM event and says the stuff that she said just a couple
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of weeks ago about Israel and genocide, which didn't endear her to the community. So we know
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where she is. As far as the flag is concerned, the flag, raising of flags, I'm told, is completely
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in the ball court of the mayors of the cities. They get to make those decisions. So she could have said
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no, but she didn't. She said she's not going to the flag raising, but she doesn't go to flag
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raising generally. So it's no big deal, but she's allowing it to happen. What I don't understand is
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how they pick this date. They're saying that's the date of Palestinian independence. I wasn't aware
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they were a country or a state. They're not even really an entity. People don't like to hear me say
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that too bad, but that's a fact. So I don't know why they're even considered as an entity that should
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have a flag raised. And what's odd to me is another city, Calgary, is planning to raise the
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Palestinian flag or has been requested to raise the Palestinian flag. I don't know that it will
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happen there with their new mayor, but they're doing it on the 30th of November. So what's the
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real date here? I don't get it. And lastly, I'm going to say this. I think all governments
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should raise no flags except the Canadian flag, the flag of the province that they're in,
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if it's appropriate, or the city, if the city has a flag, their city flag. And if there's a visiting
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dignitary, which is often, you know, the courtesy that you do, you raise the flag of the visiting
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dignitary when they're there. There shouldn't be flags raised on any other country's national day.
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And that includes, by the way, yes, indeed, friends, Israel. Don't do it. It's a bad idea.
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It just creates division. It creates controversy for no particular reason.
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Yeah. I mean, there's no placating a particular group.
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The more you give them, the more they want. You know, they wage their protest. They block off
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the Jewish neighborhoods. You know, you saw this Palestinian flag everywhere.
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And what were they chanting? You know, death to Canada. You know, these people hate the country
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that has embraced them and taken them in. And so the idea that we somehow have to placate them or
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please them, or I don't see that at all. And this is, of course, a symbol. This flag is a symbol to
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people, particularly in the Jewish community, as you well know, of hatred, of anti-Semitism,
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of terror, including what happened on October the 7th. So the idea that this should be done now,
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that Olivia Chow and members of staff thought that this was a great idea. I mean, to me, wow,
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you have to be seriously tone deaf. And it's a major thumb in the eye to the Jewish community in
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Yeah, I'll just say that her former chief of staff, or maybe still her chief of staff,
00:08:02.240
was the head of an organization, Progress Toronto. And we know where they are at.
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Her office is rife with people who are anti-Semites and anti-Israel. And the two go hand in hand
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in most cases, not in every case. There are people who have some genuine things that they could say
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about Israel that might be reasonable to listen to. And they don't have to be anti-Semites to do it.
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But unfortunately, in 98% of the cases, those two go hand in hand. And she's got an office full of
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people like that. So I expect nothing different from her. The only thing I can hope is that
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Torontonians will wake up and turf her out in the next election next year and replace her with someone
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who's more reasonable. And also more intelligent, by the way.
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Well, I guess John Tory wants to run. Apparently, the word is.
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Well, there's that. And of course, Brad Bradford has said he's in. I don't know how it's going to end up.
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Yeah. I don't get to vote in Toronto anyway. I mean, I haven't been living...
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I never actually lived in Toronto. I always lived in Vaughan, the city above Toronto.
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And I've been in Ottawa and voting here for the last 19 years. So if I continue to vote
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from Florida in Canadian elections, which is my intention to do, I assume that I will vote
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out of this riding that I'm living in now. The left of center, Ottawa center.
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So let's talk about Nathaniel Erskine Smith. Speaking of left of center, I mean, here's a guy
00:09:36.360
speaking out. Now, there are some that are suggesting that it's emblematic of maybe cracks
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in the Mark Carney caucus. Others suggesting there are others, you know, that may be feeling quite like
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this has been a betrayal. This budget was a betrayal by Mark Carney in terms of
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ongoing commitments towards climate related initiatives and projects. You know, how serious
00:10:04.680
do you take this? I mean, I don't believe for a minute that Erskine Smith is going to vote against
00:10:08.920
the budget. What do you think? I would be surprised if he voted against the budget because of all of the
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backtracking he did in the video that he put out. Well, it's the good, the bad and the ugly. Well,
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it's not really that horrible, but I'm just pointing out the flaws is kind of what it came down to.
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Obviously, he's big on the climate stuff and definitely there are things that he wanted to
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see in there that weren't in there. That doesn't mean by the way that they won't happen. It's just
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that they're not in the budget. They can be done in other ways and they can divert money in other ways
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to get their stuff done. I don't trust them for one second on this. That being said, I found it,
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I always find it amusing when someone on the left talks about investment. Clearly, they don't understand
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what investment is if they think governments invest in anything. Governments simply spend
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money that doesn't belong to them, that comes from us, the taxpayers, on projects that they have
00:11:02.600
decided that they want to do, whether we like it or not. That's unfortunately how it seems to work.
00:11:06.820
And the only way to change that is to change the government, which clearly the Canadian voter was
00:11:12.300
not in the mood to do the last time. It wasn't that far. The results were not that far apart.
00:11:18.580
You had a conservative party that got 41% of the vote and the liberals got 43% of the vote. So
00:11:25.360
not a huge difference, which tells me that it's a divided country. That being said, when you win
00:11:33.500
a government here in Canada, you win everything. You are the legislature, you are the executive,
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and you control the judicial. So everybody needs to know when they vote, it's not like the United
00:11:43.720
States. You vote for the president separately, and you get the vice president with them. But then
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you vote for Congress, two houses, they're separate, and the judiciary is completely separate.
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In some states, you vote for judges. The Supreme Court gets selected through nomination,
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advise and consent, and the Senate has to approve them, or they don't get in. It's a completely
00:12:05.680
different system. And I think most Canadians are so uneducated, they think they're living in the United
00:12:09.480
States as much as they hate it, but their government is not the U.S. government. So
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when you elect a Canadian government, you elect people who basically control your life for the
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entire term of their government. This guy here is trying to engineer a majority, which of course he
00:12:29.060
tried to do last week with Chris Dantremont, and maybe he thought he was going to do it with Matt
00:12:33.820
Jenneru. I don't know what was all behind that, other than that I heard that Matt really wants to
00:12:40.460
be home with his family. And he's a young family, and he's been away for 10 years, and maybe he's had
00:12:46.100
enough. Maybe if we would have won government, that would have made a difference, but we didn't. So
00:12:51.320
I don't know. I'm just, I didn't speak to him. I don't know. All I can say is that I know that the
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liberals would love to grab another one or two people from somewhere, whether they don't care where they
00:13:02.720
come from, NDP, conservatives, whoever, you know, but I don't, I don't know that they're going to be
00:13:10.380
able to pull that off, but they, they govern as if they have a majority, which I think is pretty
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interesting. That's something that Trudeau did the entire time after his first majority disappeared
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and became a minority. He governed like he had a majority because he kind of did. The NDP played
00:13:27.420
along with him. All this guy's got to have is a couple of votes from the NDP, and he's got a majority.
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Trudeau had a de facto majority, I guess, with Jagmeet Singh.
00:13:39.380
But if you read this column in the Toronto Sun by Brian Lilly, he mentions that there are people
00:13:46.440
like Jonathan Wilkinson and Stephen Gilbo, and that the PM has to be careful to make sure they're
00:13:53.860
happy, that they don't bolt. And then he goes on to say, though it does appear he'd like to
00:13:59.220
replace them both. I mean, if you take this at face value and believe it suggests that
00:14:05.160
maybe, you know, he's not the greenie that we all were led to believe based on his book
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and based on his past statements, that somehow he's trying to change things, change the culture
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or change the dynamic in his own caucus. So he doesn't have these radical environmentalists,
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you know, pulling as much weight as they have in the past.
00:14:26.340
So I don't put Jonathan Wilkinson in the same class as Stephen Gilbo. I'll say that. First of
00:14:32.300
all, Jonathan Wilkinson is certainly more measured in the way he approaches the issues around the
00:14:40.400
environment. He's an environmentalist, no question about it, but not the same. Stephen Gilbo is a radical
00:14:45.260
environmentalist. He is. And he's been a problem. He was removed from that file for a reason.
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I don't think I think that the theory and I would say Tom Pitfield is a guy that's doing a lot of
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this behind the scenes. He's the chief of staff to the prime minister and a very smart politician,
00:15:02.160
by the way. Tom Pitfield and that crew recognize that you have to have the appearance. They looked
00:15:10.460
at the vote. That's what I'm saying to you. The vote was not that far apart, right? You have to look
00:15:15.100
at it and say, can we really take the chance of going as far left on the environment and other
00:15:22.660
things as we'd like to? And the answer is, no, they probably can't. So I think they're making
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a judgment that they need to be sure that the people that are running the show appear to be
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more rational and that the budget that they put out appears to be less radical. But I am going to
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tell you, I do not believe for one second, and I think I'll be proven correct, that this guy is just
00:15:49.100
as much a radical environmentalist as he's always been. The only thing that matters more to him than
00:15:54.900
that is money, personal money, not money for us, but making money for his friends. I think there's going
00:16:04.480
to be a lot of discussion of Brookfield and how it benefits from this budget and others of his friends
00:16:12.400
and how they benefit from this budget. I think it's going to be very interesting to see. I know that
00:16:15.880
there's going to be long, hard looks at that, certainly within the Conservative Party. They're not fools
00:16:21.540
on this stuff. They understand what's behind it. So the question would be, what's his first priority? Is it
00:16:27.960
money personally and for his buddies, or is it the environment? I would say probably money for his
00:16:33.880
buddies and then the environment. Yeah. I mean, you can make the case that a lot of this is posturing.
00:16:39.960
You know, he wants to be seen as a moderate, you know, so he puts the stuff out and says, well, yeah,
00:16:46.200
those radicals in caucus, you know, they've been kind of put in their place a little bit because I'm
00:16:51.520
more of a moderate, you know, and the first tomorrow, you know, they're going to be announcing
00:16:56.360
projects that are supposed to be fast track, you know, in the field of mining and LNG and
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hydroelectric ventures as well. So I think he's trying to position himself in such a way as to
00:17:09.680
show Canadians that he's not as radical as some of the people in his caucus. So he's going to keep
00:17:15.600
those people under, you know, on a tight leash, but I'm with you. I don't, I don't believe it. I
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don't think his stripes have changed at all. And when you look at, all you have to do is look at this
00:17:25.560
budget, you know, which wraps up the spending to the point where we have a, you know, a $78 billion
00:17:31.260
deficit or whatever it is, you know, I mean, if he was a moderate, he would not be blowing the bank the
00:17:37.160
way he has been. And there would be much deeper cuts to spending that we have seen. So a lot of this
00:17:43.260
is smoke and mirrors, as far as I can tell. I would agree with you. I think it is smoke
00:17:49.080
and mirrors. And it's what I actually said to you, I think before the budget came out,
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that it was going to be smoke and mirrors. I don't think anything happened that just proves that for
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me. He is, he's trying to utilize the fact that he was the governor of the Bank of Canada,
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the governor of the Bank of England, and he's this whiz kid in finance, and that people should
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just believe that he's going to be fiscally responsible. I don't want to break the news,
00:18:13.900
but I think Theresa May pretty well summarized the feelings of the British people towards Mark
00:18:19.680
Carney's performance as governor of the Bank of England. And his tales about...
00:18:29.240
Oh, sorry. I meant Liz Truss. Sorry. Yes. I don't know. What was I thinking? And then,
00:18:34.100
and then, of course, there's the made up stories that he has about his relationship with Stephen
00:18:38.340
Harper, which is completely untrue about how much Harper loved him and wanted him to be the finance
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minister. He's dreaming in technicolor that never, ever, ever happened. That's a complete made up story.
00:18:51.940
So, so you have somebody who has put himself out there as a financial whiz kid, and he fooled the
00:18:57.600
Canadian people. But a financial whiz kid would not say, we're going to have a $62 billion deficit,
00:19:03.560
which was $20 billion more than the previous deficit, which was outrageous, and ended up at
00:19:09.320
$79 billion and just kind of blew it off. Like, oh, well, you know, that's how it is. You know,
00:19:17.740
no real explanation for it. But the funniest story of the week, actually, was the one that came out
00:19:23.320
yesterday that says that they're looking at having military come from the 300,000 government employees
00:19:32.440
that are bureaucrats. That was, I actually thought, I sent it to my friend who works for the government,
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and I said, you, maybe you'll be going back to your days in the military, because he was a naval
00:19:44.900
guy, Navy guy. He was in the Navy for 15 years. So maybe go back to your days as a military guy,
00:19:49.960
I said, but I actually thought that this was a story from the Babylon Bee. I didn't think it was real.
00:19:55.240
But apparently, they're actually thinking that this is something that they should do. It's like,
00:19:59.440
are you nuts? Like, these people are crazy. They really are. Yeah, I mean, so that would be like
00:20:04.980
a fake military. You're gonna say, oh, yeah, we got 300,000 people in our military. No, you don't.
00:20:10.760
What are you talking about? So, yeah, this is what they're about. It's all about appearances. It's
00:20:17.240
all about smoke and mirrors. The Canadian people should, I know there is some buyer's remorse out
00:20:23.500
there. That I heard from my friends who supported him in the last election. And I'm kind of glad to
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hear that they're feeling bad about what they did, but are they feeling bad enough that they would
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vote conservative? I can tell you that the media and all of their chums directed by the Liberal Party
00:20:43.100
are doing a great job trying to tear Pierre down. They're trying everything they can to make him look
00:20:48.460
weak and to make him look like there's chaos in his caucus. In fact, there is not. Okay, there isn't.
00:20:54.540
There are always whiners in the conservative caucus. Always. There are always whiners in our
00:21:00.880
party. And it's the same people, by the way, for the last 20 years that have been whining about the
00:21:05.880
same things. So I tend to go, yeah, whatever. Okay. If you've got something concrete, go ahead and fix it
00:21:13.400
and do it, but stop complaining. Don't do the Canadian thing and whine. Do the American thing
00:21:18.560
and get beep done. You know, just do stuff. Don't sit around and complain. But that's what they do.
00:21:26.000
And, you know, you probably had somebody who said something to some media person somewhere, so they
00:21:30.100
now can blow this up into a big storm of some kind or another. And in fact, it's just not the case.
00:21:37.420
I talk to members of parliament fairly often, very, I would say, openly. And if they actually
00:21:46.960
felt that there was a big problem, they would tell me. They would say, man, we're in trouble.
00:21:51.440
I haven't heard that not once. I've heard people say, look, there are problems. There are things
00:21:55.840
we got to deal with, but nothing that's like we want Pierre gone. I've never heard that from not a
00:22:00.580
single other member of a caucus. You know, Chris was no surprise to me. He was, I always said to
00:22:05.740
people, he's not a conservative anyway. I just insulted Tim Powers this morning by telling him
00:22:10.400
he was a conservative in name only. So I think I've created a new enemy. But that's a fact. These
00:22:17.480
guys are not real conservatives. They constantly cave into the liberals. They share a lot of their
00:22:25.000
views. And that's, I mean, I'm not saying you can't maybe agree with them on some things, but some
00:22:31.280
of the basic things, the important things that differentiate conservatives from liberals,
00:22:36.600
conservatives from the NDP, we should be different on those. And our spokespeople and our members of
00:22:42.840
parliament who are elected should reflect those things, not the opposite way.
00:22:48.280
Yeah, there are definitely some conservatives, or they call themselves that, who have liberal envy.
00:22:53.640
You know, they envy the liberal's relationship with the media, and the fact that they have so many
00:23:00.900
outspoken left-wing groups that champion them. You know, they're like, they see them as the cool kids,
00:23:08.440
you know, that they couldn't be part of. So I think they have kind of a secret envy.
00:23:12.820
You know, it's sad, because it would be better if they just joined the liberals, you know?
00:23:18.460
Yeah, just go and feed your need to be accepted by these people. You'll find out very quickly that
00:23:29.080
they're not better or worse than any other politicians. They're the same, because politicians
00:23:35.680
are pretty much all the same. And in some ways, you know, they have this tendency to cannibalize their
00:23:41.560
own. The liberals just are more nuanced about it, I would say.
00:23:46.240
How is Pierre dealing with it? Sorry to interrupt, but, you know, here he's at the center of it.
00:23:53.640
Constant attacks, this jihad by the media, you try and oust him. I mean, I would think that the
00:24:00.440
reason the media hates him so much is that he doesn't favor the ongoing subsidization of the media,
00:24:06.600
subsidizing of media. You know, he's for defunding the CBC.
00:24:11.320
Yeah, they just got another $150 million, so they're pretty happy with the liberals.
00:24:15.640
Yeah, exactly. So how does he deal with it in your view? I mean, as a communications strategist,
00:24:24.280
So I think that he cannot fall into the trap of making excuses and saying, oh, that's not fair,
00:24:31.240
and that's not true. And he let his caucus go out and do what they do best. So there was a lovely
00:24:37.800
picture the other day in social media of my very dear friend and one of my favorite people, Costas
00:24:42.920
Menegakis, simply standing with Pierre in a picture, his arm over his shoulder, saying,
00:24:48.920
here I am with the leader of my party. I'm so proud to be a member of this party.
00:24:53.400
Okay. There are lots of those kinds of things happening. Nobody is rejecting having a picture
00:24:59.320
taken with Pierre Polyev. Okay. That's just not happening. And they're supporting him. And that's
00:25:04.520
what he should be doing. He needs to pay attention to the issues. He needs to pay attention to his
00:25:09.800
membership of his party, the people that are being elected delegates, because he's got a convention
00:25:14.840
coming up in another two months. And he wants to make sure he survives a leadership review, which I
00:25:21.320
think he will. But he's reaching out to, which he's, by the way, always done. He was, Stephen Harper,
00:25:31.000
don't get mad at me, but Stephen Harper wasn't particularly good at that. Pierre has always been
00:25:36.360
good. Pierre is doing breakfast with members of his caucus at Stornoway, like small groups, like
00:25:43.400
bringing in six or eight of them at a time and just sitting down for a couple of hours
00:25:47.320
and letting them talk about the things that concern them. That sounds like a guy that's running a frat
00:25:52.600
house, doesn't it? That sounds like a guy that's, you know, doesn't care about the people in his
00:25:59.240
caucus. It's running it like a dictator. He actually is trying to do the right thing with his members.
00:26:07.000
Also, I know he's reached out and continues to reach out to riding presidents, to members of the
00:26:14.200
riding association boards, and he always responds to people who reach out to him to ask him questions
00:26:21.400
or whatever. He makes himself very accessible at every event I've ever been. He stands in line
00:26:26.600
for two hours, if necessary, taking pictures with every single person that's there and giving them a
00:26:31.640
moment or two of his time to talk. I've watched him do it and he's absolutely committed to keeping
00:26:39.560
those relationships up. It's a very hard thing to do. It's very hard work to do to stay, you know,
00:26:47.640
that focused on people and also do your job, but he does it. He's got tremendous energy. He's a very
00:26:52.920
hardworking guy. The people of Carlton should be ashamed of themselves that they replaced him with that
00:26:58.360
moron, Fanjoy, I call him Fanboy, who is just awful. And they lost themselves, a great MP who's devoted
00:27:08.920
almost 20 years of his life in that riding. Every day, every Friday, I was told by people that live
00:27:15.640
there, every Friday, they knew he showed up somewhere in the riding. He would pick a pole and go work the
00:27:21.400
pole. Election or not election, he was there on Fridays because those were constituency days. He'd go out
00:27:27.160
for a few hours, go door knocking and just say, hi, I'm here. I'm not asking for nothing. I just
00:27:32.920
want to know how am I doing? How's the government doing? How's the party doing? Are you happy? What
00:27:37.880
are your issues? And people even that didn't like him that are not supporters said that they were
00:27:43.240
amazed when he would do that. He came to the door. He didn't, you know, cherry pick the list and say,
00:27:48.120
I'm only going to go to conservatives. He went to everybody. Whoever was home, he talked to.
00:27:52.200
And the word spread like wildfire that he was there. He knew he had, they had a hardworking guy.
00:27:57.320
Well, apparently they decided that fan boy who was out for a couple of years, like working the doors
00:28:04.440
too. He just happened to be there at the right time at the time when civil servants, which are a large
00:28:09.960
part of that constituency decided to turn against the conservatives. They will regret it. I assure you,
00:28:15.880
you will regret it. On that happy note, I will thank you for
00:28:23.000
I'm just a ray of sunshine. What can I tell you?
00:28:27.080
Yeah, but you hit hard and we appreciate it. Thank you, Georgianne.
00:28:31.640
Georgianne Burke, Pathway Group. And that is it for this edition of Straight Up. Appreciate
00:28:36.280
you tuning in, my friends. Let's do it again soon. Bye-bye for now.