Juno News - November 13, 2025Carney’s Immigration Shell Game？
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Summary
In this episode, Conservative MP Michelle Rempel-Garner joins host Alexander Brown to talk about the Liberal government's plan to bring in an additional 150,000 temporary foreign workers, and why it's a bad idea.
Transcript
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Hi, Juno News. Alexander Brown here, Director of the National Citizens Coalition, writer,
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communicator, campaigner. Great to be back with you here. We've got a great episode with
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Michelle Rempel-Garner talking immigration. Obviously, much to unpack there, much to be
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concerned about still. JunoNews.com slash not sorry for 20% off. I want you to take advantage
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of that deal as well. So slightly turning down the immigration taps, it won't fix the flood
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or the flood damage. And are the liberals even fixing it at all? Carney is misleading us on
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permanent resident targets. This is in accordance with the according to the Financial Post. The
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budget said the number would be 380,000 per year on a revised PR target, but it's actually closer to
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528,000 after a plan to grandfather in 33,000 temporary foreign workers and 115,000 categorized
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protected persons, which no one knows what that means yet. And we get into that with the shadow
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immigration minister. Adding them to that headline number would essentially raise targets by at least
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148,000 across three years. Adding insult to that injury, and in a deeply troubling Blacklock's report
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released Wednesday morning, Liberal MP Amandeep Sohi has sponsored a Commons petition to grant federal
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aid and permanent residency to foreign students and migrant workers facing deportation or departure.
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More than 3 million foreigners are in Canada on valid or expired temporary permits by last official
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estimate. That real number, given the extent of fraud and invalidity, is believed to be much higher.
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And even our once-vaunted immigration system is still a mess, of course, on the justice front.
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We have literal killers being allowed to stay in Canada for years after their crimes and continue to receive
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leniency from these liberal judges, as in this recent shocking case of a Pakistani immigrant who killed
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one and injured five in an act of road rage before fleeing the scene and not turning himself in for weeks.
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Knowing this man who is no model permanent resident needs to go, you're the one who's in the right here,
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not our failing status quo or its supporters. And on that status quo, Dan Mazur on X,
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fascinating sort of damning evidence he found in a tweet, which is,
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in a time when 6.5 million Canadians don't have access to a family doctor. I don't have one. My
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guest today doesn't have one. Millions are suffering under a self-inflicted housing crisis,
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you know, a jobs crisis. What's the liberal response? They're attempting to hide the real
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numbers in the margins to commit a kind of creative accounting fraud. Just pulling mentions of the word
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free from ads about newcomer health care, afraid to see that Canadians would see how much they're giving
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away. They're spending billions on this program for immigrants. They're attempting to hide the fact
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that they're keeping the mass immigration taps flowing to the detriment of our workforce and our
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buckling public services. That has to change. We're thrilled to have Michelle on today, back on today.
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She's doing important work as the immigration critic. We all need to ensure that these changes are robust
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and we can see dishonorable lobby groups, misguided business lobbies. They want to continue the excess
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of the last few years that have so thoroughly, you know, broken the country. And so join Michelle
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Rumpelgarner and I for this chat. And first, a word from our sponsor. I want to give a quick word from
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our sponsor, Albertans Against No Fault Insurance. So did you know that the Alberta government is overhauling
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its auto insurance system? Under a new model called Care First coming into effect in 2027,
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most Albertans injured in car accidents will no longer be able to sue the at fault driver.
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Instead, decisions about your care and compensation will be made by the insurance company, not your
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doctor, not the courts. Critics say this system puts insurance companies first and removes key rights
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from victims and their families. Michelle Rumpelgarner joins the show. Michelle, long time MP, Calgary
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Knows Hill, Shadow Immigration Critic, you know, doing such great work on that file. Michelle,
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thanks for coming back on. Michelle Rumpelgarner Thanks for having me again.
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Yeah, it means a lot because you are a busy gal. You have a busy file, like these new immigration
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targets that accompanied the budget. Seemingly, this is good news or better news. But then you look at
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this 380,000 for PR. You see the continuation of sort of a few hundred thousand on the temporary
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stream side that still adds up to north of 2 million over three years. Do they go far enough?
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Michelle Rumpelgarner So I think it's important to start with kind of where you were going,
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which is they cooked the books. They did. Like they absolutely cooked the books on numbers. So
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let's start with temporary residents because you brought that up. So temporary residents are people who
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would be in the country either as temporary foreign workers or have a work permit through a temporary
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student visa, for example. Those numbers are incredibly high, especially when you look at the
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percentage of Canada's population. So back in 2015, so a decade ago, the number of temporary residents,
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particularly those that were on work permits in the country was lower than 2%. Today, it's over 7%.
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And the numbers that they have it at, it's going to keep it at least over 5% for some time to come.
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Now, the other thing to note, Alex, is that there are already 3 million temporary residents in the
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country right now. That doesn't count the 500,000 undocumented people that we know are in the country,
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at least asylum seekers. There's 300,000 asylum seekers that are in the queue and a backlog.
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Many of those will be found to not have valid asylum claims. But the point I'm trying to make is
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the total number of temporary residents in the country is incredibly high.
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What didn't accompany those numbers was a plan to remove people that are already in the country
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when their visa is set to expire. So what's happening is you already have an incredibly high
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amount of the population that are temporary residents. You have a youth jobs crisis. And then what are they
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doing? They're adding more temporary residents. So that's on the temporary resident side.
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But then you're right. There's also this PR, this permanent resident sort of cooking of books where
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they have these, quote, one-time measures to add permanent residency for different classes of people
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that aren't included in their actual overall numbers. So I think what they've been trying to do
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is sort of speak on both sides of their mouths, right? Because they know that Canadians are concerned
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about the high levels of mass immigration that they've enabled, the liberals have enabled.
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But they also don't want to lower the overall numbers. And so I think that's where you saw this
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cooking of the books. But a lot of people saw through it. I didn't even have to comment on it much.
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There was a lot of commentary on it, like, well, wait, what is this? So it wasn't great news.
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Yeah, guys like me, we're on that one quick. That's for sure. So we're talking creative
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accounting, which maybe as charitably as I can put it with some of these numbers. One phrase I keep
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seeing is protected persons. Who are these protected persons? Who decides what a protected person is? And
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why are we going to be designating like 116,000 of them? Or I believe it's close to that number.
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So we're going to have to get some more details on that at committee. I'm hoping to have the
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immigration minister come to the committee for levels like the this report that we're talking
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about today in the next couple of weeks. But I think what they're trying to do there, I'm not sure.
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It's they've made promises to a lot of different groups of people that are in the country on sort
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of what would be the equivalent of visitor visas. I'm oversimplifying the concept. But for example,
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people from different conflict areas around the world, maybe. And I think they rather than trying
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to send anybody back, they're probably some of those that that that that PR number is probably
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coming out of those pools. It could be that they but I think more likely, they're looking at the 300,000
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person backlog, they're probably going to have to rubber stamp a bunch of those applications and find
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spots for those people somehow too. So but I mean, we need more detail and we need more clarity.
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There's been a lot of commentary on the fact that the government didn't provide clarity
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on what those spots were for. And I've also heard a lot of people, you know, who have been waiting
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in the queue to come to the country, you know, through regular means, like sort of through the
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legal channels waiting for years going, wait a second, what is this? But the fact that we didn't
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have that clarity in the levels, again, it tells me that they're, they're trying to solve problems of
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their own creation. Yeah, and it and it's not necessarily matching those immigration levels
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with any sort of metrics on healthcare jobs or housing. And that's really concerning. And that's
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where we've got to hold the government to account on that is because the numbers are too high, right?
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And speaking of too high and needing to hold them to account and problems of their own making,
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we have it, we're taping this on Wednesday, we have a liberal petition concern, we yes,
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many have concerned, you know, have considered this would be coming many, let's say, were saw through
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this a while ago, because you're right, they don't ever seem to address the need for deportation,
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there's never like an outflow. We have a liberal MP and Amandeep Sohi, who was broken in black locks this
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morning, who is petitioning to amnesty the those 3 million plus temporary workers.
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What the heck do you make of that? What can we do about that? How concerned should people be?
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So, I know exactly what's happening here. So, the Liberals, when they increased those
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temporary resident visas to those record highs over the last several years, they did so kind
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of with a wink and a nod to people coming to the country, that they would be able to stay, there's
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actually a whole advertising program, they put a lot of money behind to advertise to come to Canada
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as temporary on temporary student visas, work permits. And I think the tagline, you'd have to check this,
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it was something like, learn, and then stay or stay work, stay something like the key
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operative word was stay in there. So, on one hand, they're advertising come to Canada and stay,
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but on the other hand, they're saying it's like a temporary program. So, now what's happening is
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they have to deal with the fact that there are 3 million people in the country. Many of them think
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that they should be able to stay. There's a high likelihood that some of them, or a lot of them,
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are going to abuse the asylum system in a way to try and stay.
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When in fact, they need to have, the Liberals need to have a plan to get people to leave. Because
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they weren't brought into Canada as permanent residents, they were brought into Canada as
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temporary residents. So, this is why, you know, you've seen me and my colleagues in the House
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of Commons going, what's your plan to get these people to leave? Right? And, but that's going to
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piss off, getting people to leave is going to piss off a lot of people that they made promises to.
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So, I think I would want to know if this petition was actually sanctioned by the government
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in a way to get them to be able to speak on both sides of their mouth. So, on one hand,
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you know, they're trying to claim that they're getting immigration under control. Spoiler alert,
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they're not. And then on the other hand, they're having like their members of parliament go into
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their committee and be like, don't worry, we're going to make sure you can stay in Canada. But
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the reality is, Alex, you and I know that we don't have the housing infrastructure,
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the healthcare infrastructure, and we have a youth jobs crisis. We don't have the infrastructure,
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social or economic infrastructure for 3 million temporary residents stay in the country. So,
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the Liberals are going to have to deal with that, and we will be holding them to account on that
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front. But I think it's an exercise to have them be able to speak on both sides of their mouth.
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Yeah. And speaking of winking with your choice of words, and the strain we're seeing on our public
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services, 6.5 million Canadians don't have access to a family doctor. And we see that even Immigration
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Canada is scrubbing the use of the word free in ads about newcomer healthcare. This was referenced
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in a tweet from Dan Mazur. We know the number being spent there is in the billions on newcomer healthcare,
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as it even is on childcare, and Canadians are paying for that and seeing no such benefits.
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Why the continued duplicitousness, even from Immigration Canada?
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So, you're referring to a story where, I think it was Black Locks again, I think they probably
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did an access to information request on some messaging that the Immigration and Refugee Department,
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led by Liberal Minister Lina Diab, had put out essentially advertising Canada's healthcare system
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as a reason for people to come to Canada. But as you rightly point out, a lot of Canadians,
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millions of Canadians don't have access to a family doctor. I don't have a family doctor.
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Right. And, you know, anybody who walks into an emergency room right now knows the, you know,
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abject state of despair of Canada's, of Canada's healthcare system. So obviously,
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the Immigration Department shouldn't be advertising Canada's healthcare system,
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particularly given that they have juiced the immigration levels to unsustainable highs
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over the last several years. So I think, you know, for people who might not be following this,
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my colleague, Dan Mazier, who you mentioned, he is the Conservative Shadow Minister for Health.
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He's been leading a study on the, essentially the impacts of the Liberals' immigration levels over the
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last several years on Canada's healthcare system. He's been doing an excellent job. People should watch that.
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But no, they're, they're, the Liberals have not, they didn't even consider Alex. They haven't even
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ever tried to get data on the capacity of Canada's healthcare system and our jobs. You know, I saw,
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I saw this press release, it was a region in one of the big healthcare region in one of the big
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colleges in Ontario that actually had to put out a press release saying that they were charging temporary
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residents for having babies at their hospital because they just couldn't keep up with the capacity.
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So it's this, it's this thing that nobody wants to talk about. Like, you know, a lot of people take,
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and in Canada rightly take pride in the, in the healthcare system, but it's, it doesn't have capacity
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to deal with the amount of people that it, that depend on it right now. And that's not fair to anybody.
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So, you know, yeah, it's very disappointing that the Liberals are internally messaging ways to spin
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this really dumb advertising plan. It shows that the Liberals don't have anybody in charge,
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that their ministers are incredibly weak, but the buck stops with Mark Carney. You know,
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I think immigration has been an afterthought for him. And I think that he's largely continuing,
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you know, the, the, the decade of liberal century initiative policies, which have juiced immigration
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levels to a point where, you know, health, healthcare in particular can't keep up.
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Yeah. And, and speaking of our darling century initiative, which I've gone into so many times
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on Juneau by, by a recent leisure poll found most immigrants, most immigrants, recent new Canadians
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want fewer than 300,000 immigrants annually. That's lower than outlined in the budget.
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And Veronix has eight in 10 saying too, too many are still coming in. Abacus has a majority still
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saying the revised numbers are too high and the conservatives would be better equipped to lead on
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this file. Of course you would be. So why the liberal creative accounting here to, to avoid
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real and necessary change? Who is really at fault here? Is it just Carney? Is it his century initiative
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pals? Is it calls from certain premiers? What's the role of the business lobby here that seemingly
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lost its way and become obsessed with, with this kind of exploitable replacement labor caste system
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and abandoning our young workers? Like, is there plenty of blame to go around here?
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Yeah, I think you've framed the part of the problem out correctly.
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Um, there are, there is an inordinate amount of lobbying that happens in Ottawa from business
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groups that have be, have based their entire business model off of essentially indentured,
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low skilled foreign labor, um, that has depressed wages. Uh, you know, this is why, uh, the conservatives,
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myself, our leader, Pierre Polyev, we called for the abolishment of the temporary foreign worker
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program because you, you talked about a caste system, uh, you know, when you've got seven
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percent of the population is temporary foreign workers and the, the way that the program is
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structured, it's such that essentially you're beholden to one employer that is going to depress
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wages. It's going to depress working conditions, and it is going to close off entry-level work
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opportunities for Canadian youth. And we're seeing, we see that happening. There's what is it? 20%
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youth unemployment. Um, so, so I do think that there are a lot of, I know this for a fact,
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lobby groups that they either spin and say, wow, there's no youth job crisis. There's actually no
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impact on wages. Well, it's, you know, I shouldn't screw on your show show, but it's bull, right? Like
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it's, it's, it's, it's bunk. So there is like an, and these lobby groups want to keep that scenario
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because then they don't have to pay higher wages. They don't have to train Canadians. They don't have
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to improve working conditions. And I don't buy the argument that we don't have the talent in this
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country that we can train, uh, that we don't, that young Canadians don't want job opportunities. I
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also think that's bull. And I think that, you know, this is why I'm proud of my party for saying,
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no, we would abolish the temporary foreign work program. We'd replace it, um, with a, a system
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that's only focused on legitimately hard to fill seasonal agricultural needs. Um, and then, and then
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train, train Canadians and give those opportunities back to Canadian youth. Um, and it's not fair to
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foreign workers coming to Canada either to work in those types of conditions. So, uh, yeah, it's,
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I think that there's a lot of pressure on the government from lobby groups. And I mean,
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we could have a whole other conversation about what that program has done for productivity in Canada,
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which is also in the toilet, but that's for another day, but no, it's, um, that's why the
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numbers are so high and they shouldn't be that high. Um, but you see a lot of spin in the media
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on that from, from industry, for sure. You do from industry and for our audience who are unaware,
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the century initiative, this, this lobby group that is shooting for a population of a hundred million
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over a very short timeframe in Canada, they have, they've run like co-ads and co-sponsorship with
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the globe and mail. And so, you know, be discerning in what you're reading. Cause there are times where
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you open that globe opinion section. And if you're not getting a two page spread on behalf of the PRC,
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you're getting this, you know, infinite. That was wild. Hey, yeah.
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I saw that. Yeah. Well, status quo defending beyond belief. That's a paper that, uh,
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certainly seems to have a gerontocratic view of our country and wanting to replace our young
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workers. I even think of, think of all the young people we have unemployed right now and, and our
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supposed fix for our military woes is to enlist, you know, public servants, uh, or enlist the, the
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Ottawa bureaucratic class who, who couldn't do 10 pushups. When you have an army of young men who are
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gym goers, they're, they're, they're, you know, like-minded, they're ready to go.
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And we're skipping over them again for, for people with, I don't know, pronouns in their email bio.
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And so that's, uh, you know, they're just what, how do you not just alienate people and drive them
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crazy? Well, look, like, I mean, there's a whole separate conversation to be had on the state of
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Canada's, uh, armed forces and the fact that the liberals have underfunded them, uh, you know,
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changed the objectives of, of the armed forces over the years. Um, but I do think that, you know,
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that there are Canadians who either want to join the military or want to do these jobs, but just
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going back to what I just said earlier, uh, the policies of the government have to make sure that
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you're, you're, you're not creating government intervention such that you're taking away those
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opportunities from people that are already in the country. There are people in Canada who want to
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do these jobs. They want to join the military. They want to, um, you know, get entry-level jobs.
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I don't buy that they're not there. We need to do a better job of making sure that the government
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isn't in the way of those opportunities. And, and I do think it's fixable. It's not fixable if the
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government just keeps listening to one lobby group and doesn't listen to people who don't have
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high paid Ottawa lobbyists like, you know, a young Canadian, right? Yeah. I could go on lobby groups
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forever. And I routinely in my line of work get in trouble for going on lobby groups now because
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we have such an unrepresented young worker class, seemingly certain, uh, premier's offices and such.
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It's a, you know, you need sort of official representation after making a donation and then it,
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the door is open for you, but they don't open for anybody else. And they're not opening for our
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missing middle, our lower class, our young Canadians. Another thing that really concerns
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people is, is these activist judges is, is light sentencing for supposedly temporary visitors and PRs.
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I know it's a growing concern for so many. There's the case from last week of the man on the QEW.
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This was years ago who killed one and harmed five in a fit of red mist road rage. He fled the scene
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and didn't turn himself in for weeks yet. He gets to stay as a PR. You've even been criticized
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for calling this out. I saw that over the weekend. Is this not, is this not supposed to be a no brainer
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that if you're not a citizen and you commit a serious crime and any or most crimes that you
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should be sentenced and deported? Yeah. I mean, so there's two issues at play here.
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One is a Supreme court ruling from about 10 years ago, which allowed judges to consider somebody's
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immigration status in sentencing them if they were convicted of a serious crime. You and I've
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talked about this before. And what that Supreme court ruling did was it allowed for more leniency
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for non-citizens who were convicted of serious crime. So as you said, they could stay in the country.
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I have a bill in front of the house of commons to change this and prevent the judiciary from being
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able to consider immigration status in order to give more lenient sentences to non-citizens.
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That'll be up for a vote in the next few weeks or so. It'll be up for debate in a couple of weeks.
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And then there's a second issue, which is, you know, in the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act
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right now, there, there's a set of rules on what is considered to be a serious crime in terms of
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barring somebody from either getting citizenship or from staying in the country if they're convicted in
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Canada. I, you know, stay tuned for more on that. But I think that it is long overdue for us to have
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a look at whether or not those bars are significant or high enough. Um, the amount, the number of cases
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that we've seen, uh, in this regard that it seems like, like Alex, there's something like every day,
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almost it, that tells me that that particular section either needs to be reviewed or amended.
00:24:03.900
Um, so, so stay tuned for more on that because it really does concern me because there should be,
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you know, like you and I have talked about this before. They're, uh, staying in the country is a
00:24:13.580
privilege for a non-citizen. It's not a right. And the Immigration and Refugee Protection Act is that act
00:24:20.220
which states what those conditions should be. And if they're not being enforced, then just coming to the,
00:24:25.980
like the, then we're essentially saying as a society, well, there's no rules or no consequences
00:24:30.940
for non-citizens if you break the law when you're in the country. And that's not right.
00:24:34.780
Um, so yes, we will, we will be on that as well too.
00:24:42.460
No, there's bad news on that front every day. And I, and I look forward to that news because it's,
00:24:46.460
it's a daily temporary worker sex pest. It's a daily, uh, trucker that t-bones a family and we're
00:24:52.380
all just supposed to go, ah, you know, maybe he can drag this out in the courts. Like poor Jamie Sarkonic,
00:24:57.100
who's like such an incredible writer and journalist.
00:24:59.260
She is just every single day, every single day, every single day is having to interface with this
00:25:04.620
crap. And I'm swearing on my own show now and, and, and, and blowing the whistle on, on the depths of
00:25:11.580
this abdication. So I don't believe in black pilling people too much. I, I, I half the time I realize what
00:25:18.940
I do for a living is I give conservative pep talks. So we don't just lay down in the street. What do you
00:25:25.340
need from concerned Canadians on the social license front right now on immigration to, to stand against
00:25:30.860
these, these petitions and these attempts to continue the breaking of this once celebrated
00:25:35.580
system under, under Stephen Harper, Jason Kenney, and, and even our friend, Michael Bonner, like what,
00:25:40.620
what the heck can we do to, to help you and, and to help drag this, this system back towards common
00:25:47.340
sense and to prevent them from screwing this all up again?
00:25:49.340
Well, I, it is just a return to common sense. Like there's a lot of people who want immigration
00:25:55.020
reform who are immigrants themselves. Majority immigrants want this change more than anybody.
00:26:00.140
So I don't think that it's like the liberals have been trying to frame this issue out as,
00:26:06.060
you know, an anti-immigrant sentiment. I don't get that at all. Like I don't get that in Canada.
00:26:11.420
It's an, there, there's a lot of people who oppose the policy, uh, the liberal policies of mass
00:26:17.660
immigration with, uh, with reluctance to deport people who have no legal reason to be in the
00:26:23.980
country. And, uh, you know, what has been encouraging for me to watch this debate unfold
00:26:29.180
in Canada is that most Canadians, regardless of political stripe are of that opinion and have
00:26:35.500
been communicating that way in spite of the liberals who are in political hot water over this file,
00:26:41.020
trying to frame it as something that it's not. So I, you know, I would just say,
00:26:44.860
continue that common sense approach the issues. That's how I'm approaching it as a shadow minister.
00:26:49.420
I've got a great, uh, group of people who work with me from my team on, on the immigration
00:26:54.140
committee, including Brad Radicopp from Saskatchewan. Um, but like, like we're, we're going to keep
00:27:00.300
pushing for these common sense reforms. We've talked about the abolition of the TFW program.
00:27:04.620
We've talked about changing, um, the rules for automatic citizens, the descendants of, um,
00:27:10.460
automatic citizenship for the descendants of two temporary residents. Yeah. Uh, we've,
00:27:15.340
we've made substantive changes to liberal legislation on, on chain migration, for example,
00:27:21.420
even though they got it that afterwards, but there's opportunities in the future here very
00:27:26.700
quickly to have more changes. And, you know, the more that the public is just saying like,
00:27:32.620
this is common sense, of course, of course, these things should be, should be changed. The easier it
00:27:37.820
is for me as a legislator to do that. So thank you to you for raising attention to this issue,
00:27:42.620
but there's a lot of other folks in the country who are just like, yeah, you know,
00:27:46.220
this isn't really a partisan issue anymore. There needs to be some change. So that's encouraging on my
00:27:51.500
front for sure. Good. Okay. Well, we've got our homework and our marching orders there because
00:27:55.260
it's an important one. We want to fix this for, for our new Canadians, our old Canadians. It's not
00:28:01.100
working. They're trying to get away with, uh, with pulling a fast one here. And so Michelle Rumpel
00:28:05.020
Garner, thanks so much for joining us. Thanks for having me.