00:00:00.000while to no one's surprise the carny liberals have used their majority in parliament to flex
00:00:09.540their muscles at the house committee level their critics say the liberals are now shutting down
00:00:15.460debate on scandals including the 300 million dollars wasted on canada's failed e-prescribing
00:00:22.020health care service let's listen where the 300 million dollars going prescribed it standard
00:00:26.940accountability and liberals shut that down is this the way things are going to
00:00:30.120be with you guys with a majority shutting down debate and limiting debate
00:00:33.360avoiding accountability I reject the premise no one's shutting down debate
00:00:38.040we're having lots of debate every day on a very ambitious legislative agenda
00:00:47.180you do not allow debate to proceed on just asking an auditor come in and take
00:00:51.700look at prescribed it again committees are masters of uh of their own agenda we discuss issues every
00:00:59.060day there's going to be lots of debate i can assure you from the weeks and months ahead
00:01:03.140the prescribed it service was supposed to let doctors send prescriptions electronically
00:01:08.580replacing fax machines and paper but it never caught on and liberals are now accused of trying
00:01:14.260to cover up the massive cost overruns in that program u.s president trump has signed an
00:01:21.460order greenlighting a pipeline to transport Canadian oil across the border. It revives
00:01:27.780part of the canceled Keystone XL pipeline. Let's listen. This is a transporter pipeline similar to
00:01:33.540the old Keystone XL pipeline. It'll significantly expand our ability to move oil around North
00:01:40.100America, oil and gas around North America. It's a huge deal in terms of long-term energy dominance
00:01:45.060and energy security slightly different than the last administration they wouldn't sign a pipeline
00:01:51.940deal and we have pipelines going up and by the way they're way underground they're not a problem
00:01:58.100nobody even knows they're there it's so crazy but they wouldn't approve anything having to do with
00:02:02.420the pipeline and they're great the bridger pipeline expansion is expected to carry up to
00:02:08.100550,000 barrels of oil from Alberta through eastern Montana and Wyoming, where it would
00:02:15.300link with another pipeline. Our guest today is Kate Harrison, a public affairs expert,
00:02:21.380vice chair and partner of SUMA Strategies, also a commentator on CBC's Power in Politics.0.95
00:02:27.460Let's watch her in action in a clip on that show.0.98
00:02:31.300The reality is that we would not be entertaining this conversation with China
00:02:34.900If the prime minister had actually followed through on his promise to deliver a new economic and security partnership with the United States.
00:02:41.160Now we're back into a corner of having friends in China and Qatar because we failed to secure the most important trade relationship that we have.
00:02:48.120Right. Well, the U.S. plays a role in that, too, though, Kate.
00:03:01.980Well, you give as good as you get on that show, Kate.1.00
00:03:06.460What's it like for a conservative woman to go into the belly of the beast over at the CBC on a regular basis as you do?0.98
00:03:16.620Yeah, well, thanks. Thanks, Mark, for having me on.0.99
00:03:19.340I was grinning there just watching that clip.
00:03:21.880I had forgotten about that exchange because, you know, you go on pretty regularly and you get talking about any number of things.
00:03:28.180But what is it like? I mean, honestly, I've had a positive experience on the program in terms of having my say.
00:03:37.760And of course, there's it's challenged often on on CBC by other panelists.
00:03:43.500And, you know, the host is asked questions and stuff like that.
00:03:48.320And I knew what I was getting into when I was agreeing to be on the show.
00:03:53.120I think it's it's good that they keep they keep having me back.
00:03:57.500I would admit that I've probably got a different perspective than, you know, a number of the others around the table and perhaps kind of the media and CBC viewer.
00:04:08.100But I am very pleased to be on it because I think it's really important that conservatives show up in places where non-conservatives are.
00:04:18.540I think if there are even a small percentage of CBC watchers that listen to what conservatives have to say, maybe I'm one of them and may be persuaded, then that is time well spent.
00:04:33.280It's important to get out of the echo chamber.
00:04:34.820Yeah, it's interesting. You speak about an echo chamber. We heard the testimony of Travis Donraj, which I'm sure you're aware of a scandal at the CBC, who argued that they may be in violation of their regulatory commitment to be fair. And so I get the sense that they do have you on as part of their mandate to at least pretend to hear from conservatives, but would probably rather you not be there.
00:05:04.520Well, you know, I hope that's not the case.
00:05:07.780I do think there is an obligation to make sure that others, you know, a variety and diversity of perspectives are heard, particularly in a state broadcast function.
00:05:17.000And, you know, my view, particularly when you accept public funds, as the CBC does, but frankly, Mark, as other media companies in this country do.
00:05:26.980But when you accept public funds, your standards must change to match that of the role and purpose of government, which is not to promote one particular viewpoint.
00:05:39.160So, you know, I get along, you know, we barb on screen, but I do get along with the hosts and other co-panelists.
00:05:48.640And, yeah, certainly I bring a different perspective.
00:05:51.500But, you know, the CBC very could easily, you know, replace me or anybody with a preferred talking head.
00:06:03.260I mean, I think conservatives appreciate that you're on the show, at least providing a perspective other than what you would normally hear on the CBC.
00:06:11.440Do you think they know that they're incredibly biased or do they just think that they're, quote unquote, right?
00:06:23.400I think that they listen, I'll speak only to my experience and the perspectives of the people that I interact with.
00:06:31.820I think that there are a lot of good people in journalism, including at the CBC, that are trying their best to make sure things are covered in a fair and accurate way.
00:06:42.720I think there's always room for improvement. I think it exists there. I think it exists on CTV. I think it exists on all of these networks.
00:06:49.360And I would also say there has been, because of independent journalism and media outlets that have taken shape in Canada over the last number of years, there has rightly been a lot more sunlight on whether or not our mainstream media institutions are providing that level of balance and scrutiny and objectivity.
00:07:10.380One of the major credits I give to independent journalism outlets is trying to move the Overton
00:07:18.680window back to something that is more, you know, objective. And I think that that has been a good
00:07:24.280forcing function for all the mainstream networks to really kind of examine themselves a little bit
00:07:30.060more critically about whether or not they're providing that level of balance.
00:07:34.100Yeah, well, somebody's got to cover the hundreds of millions of dollars being funneled into legacy
00:07:38.000media outlets these are uh failing operations in many cases and only hanging on because of the
00:07:44.880millions of dollars they get from the taxpayers and they're not the ones covering it you know
00:07:50.400it's the well i think that that's and and you know what i that so that's a that's a problem
00:07:56.720with the news media ecosystem in canada period it's not it's not just one network obviously
00:08:02.800there's you know the the cvc takes a significant amount but i think when you have an environment
00:08:09.360where uh the media are recipients of government funding it is difficult to make the case that
00:08:16.800there's not a uh an exchange and a quid pro quo and again that the uh the considerations are
00:08:23.360different they're just like most people would argue that the considerations of a private business
00:08:27.840are different than they are for a public entity and an institution. So when you have that financial
00:08:34.960exchange happening, it is very difficult to say to the average Canadian that it is with impartiality
00:08:45.040and there is not some kind of a quid pro quo there to be had. And I think, how do you fix
00:08:53.280that problem well uh you have a hard look at whether or not uh these institutions are sticking
00:08:58.720to mandate um and you know you look at at scaling back what's not part of the mandate and actually
00:09:05.600serving uh key portions of the public but you also make sure that you give uh independent uh
00:09:12.080news outlets and ecosystems the ability to actually make a go of it in canada and and
00:09:18.960generate revenue and not restrict their ability to provide, you know, alternative sources of
00:09:26.880information. That's why so many other countries have done a good job of this. They have not
00:09:31.920kneecapped the ability of entrepreneurs, including in the media space, to actually
00:09:38.080to get out there and to create a business for themselves. Canada has not been as welcoming to
00:09:44.160that is the cbc out to get pierre pauliev and is it because of the conservative push to defund the
00:09:52.240cbc because it just seems like not only cbc but others in the legacy space are really preoccupied
00:10:00.080with the leader of the opposition even more so than they are with the prime minister who's in
00:10:05.520charge who has enormous powers in our system of government um do you detect sort of this sense
00:10:13.680that Pierre Polyev is the enemy and the CBC is out to get him? I think this is a problem
00:10:21.760for all of the media outlets right now, and I'm really thinking here in terms of how we've talked
00:10:27.600about the Canada-US relationship. It seems to me, and I actually think it was Althea Raj who pointed
00:10:34.640this out on CBC, a journalist with the Toronto Star on CBC, but who spoke about the media love-in
00:10:41.360that happens for the government and for the prime minister. It's almost as though right now talking
00:10:47.040against Mark Carney is unpatriotic. Like you're actually, if you level the criticism of the
00:10:54.000current government, you're somehow anti-Canadian or not a patriot or you're Maple Maga. I mean,0.55
00:11:01.360I've heard it all. That is a really dangerous place to be as a democratic society, to feel
00:11:08.800that you can't speak out uh if you have journalists that feel they can't ask questions uh for they
00:11:15.040might get might get you know accused by their colleagues of of being you know nefarious actors
00:11:19.600i think that's a really dangerous place to be and i would say that uh you know we we see a lot of
00:11:26.480corralling uh around the current government and whatever uh they espouse as being a universal
00:11:34.160truth uh not worthy of follow-up questions um it's particularly bad right now i remember it being
00:11:42.160bad in 2015 uh with uh with the election of trudeau and everybody has their honeymoon but
00:11:48.320given the seriousness of canada's problems um and and where we sit right now especially in the
00:11:54.160relationship with the us i think there needs to be a lot more spine uh from from the media in
00:12:00.800terms of questioning the prime minister and it's hard to do that when you're also accepting taxpayer
00:12:04.560dollars yeah i mean i can distinctly remember you've been watching politics for a long time
00:12:09.760as i have and it just doesn't seem that the legacy media was targeting say andrew sheer
00:12:18.480or erin o'toole in the same way as they are pierre polyev where they seem to be looking
00:12:23.520for any opportunity to undermine his ability to continue leading the party although you know what
00:12:29.840I'll say this. I remember Aaron O'Toole was accused of being somehow too close to Donald
00:12:37.180Trump or too similar to Donald Trump. I don't know any observer of politics that could rationally
00:12:44.940make that comparison looking at Mr. O'Toole and the current president, but you hear it nonetheless.
00:12:52.020So I actually think that that speaks to a broader challenge that conservatives have in terms of
00:12:59.260being kind of very closely associated with Republicans. Like, you hear that all the time.
00:13:05.380There's never any truth to it. It wasn't true for O'Toole. It's not true for Polyab,
00:13:10.660but you keep hearing it over and over, and it's fear-mongering. It's trying to convince people
00:13:15.480that the Canadian Conservatives are a version of Conservatives that they really are not.
00:13:21.360So it's never grounded in any kind of facts or evidence that Conservatives are like this,
00:13:36.580I mean, just the fact that he's leader of the opposition and doing his job
00:13:40.500seems to be lost on people in the CBC.
00:13:43.260Are they afraid, given what Polyev did to Justin Trudeau,
00:13:47.840shredding him on a day-to-day basis, humiliating him in the House of Commons,
00:13:52.900that they think that the same thing could happen with Mark Carney?
00:13:57.980Yeah, I mean, I don't know. I'm not sure. I think that right now there is such a vibe around the prime minister. He's obviously enjoying a significant strength in public opinion polls that I'm not sure that there's kind of a broader effort afoot here other than to just promote the tires of the current guy, not necessarily worry about it.
00:14:28.700what the opposition may or may not do. I do think that the main thing this comes down to,
00:14:33.740Mark, is fairness. Are you providing an equal opportunity for conservatives and the conservative
00:14:41.100leader to get their message out there? Are you looking at both parties critically and in the
00:14:46.060same way? Are you asking the same kinds of penetrative questions of the opposition leader
00:14:51.900as you are the prime minister? I think that looking on balance, I don't think that that
00:14:57.740balance has been struck to this point and and again i think that goes for everybody in the
00:15:03.580media space right now i'm thinking about some of the headlines in the globe and mail recently
00:15:08.620i'm not sure how much objectivity is coming from there and it's troubling because they're the
00:15:13.180credibility level of course continues to decline for mainstream media but should conservatives
00:15:20.380try harder as far as getting on the cbc and making sure that their voices are heard on cbc or maybe
00:15:25.660maybe they're thinking, well, you know, Kate's doing a good job. We'll just let her do what she
00:15:30.400does so we can avoid it. I mean, it's always, it's always good to have friends. I, you know,
00:15:35.740I think one of the mistakes I would say that the conservative party has made in the past
00:15:42.080has been to ignore the CBC. And that is not to say that they should prioritize mainstream media
00:15:50.740outlets over independent and traditional ones. I think you need to be everywhere all at once.
00:15:55.660perhaps especially when you're in opposition. Again, even if a small portion of listeners and
00:16:03.220viewers to mainstream media, which again, makes up a big portion of people's viewing content,
00:16:10.140either online or through traditional means, if you convince even a small number of those people
00:16:15.880to give another look to conservatives in the opposition, or maybe they think about something
00:16:20.900in a different way. I do think that that is time well spent. So I think it was a mistake not to do
00:16:27.400that in the lead up to 2025 and the election. There's been a change made, I think, to put more
00:16:33.900MPs and spokespeople on these programs. And I think that that has been a change in the positive.
00:16:40.280But we shouldn't ignore, we should show up and try to beat the drum of common sense.
00:16:46.080I know Pierre Polyev is the first conservative leader to call for the defunding of the CBC,
00:16:51.300and I'm wondering if that is playing a role in the public broadcaster's view of him.
00:16:58.200But has the party painted itself in a corner saying that?
00:17:02.820Because, you know, on one hand, yes, you want to be on all platforms, including the CBC,
00:17:07.660in order to put your position forward to as many Canadians as possible.
00:17:11.080But then if you're doing that at the same time as calling for the defunding of the CBC,
00:17:16.080you know is that you know trying to put a square peg in a round hole yeah i i hear what you're
00:17:21.680saying um you know at the uh at the risk of uh of defending the cbc i do think that uh prior to the
00:17:30.000last election there was a choice made by the conservatives to not show up on that platform
00:17:37.520i actually do believe that the cbc was trying regularly to get those conservative perspectives
00:17:43.680on the show those calls were ignored that's my understanding because you saw a shift happen
00:17:48.880after the last election right and i know there's been a number of issues a number of interviews
00:17:52.560excuse me um with uh with rosemary barton and other some of some of their anchors that uh that
00:17:58.960the leader of the opposition has taken on so um now does it make it complicated to have the or
00:18:05.600does it make those conversations charged when you've talked about uh you know defunding the cbc
00:18:10.640and then you show up on their program. Yes, but I think that that tension is good. We can't
00:18:16.880dance around giving hundreds of millions of dollars to media-funded outlets and broadcasters
00:18:26.240and then say we can therefore not ask any questions of those entities that are receiving
00:18:32.720taxpayer dollars. I think there's a lot of conversations that even non-conservatives and
00:18:39.440points that have been raised about again how does this achieve the mandate how is what you're doing
00:18:44.400the programming you put on achieve the mandate uh that has been laid out for you um is it fit
00:18:49.280for purpose i think that you should be able to ask those questions of the broadcaster without
00:18:54.480uh feeling that um your uh your presentation may be um maybe uh you know augmented uh because uh
00:19:04.720they're they're the ones that are receiving the funds yeah i hear what you say about efforts
00:19:10.160being made to bring in conservatives but when we heard travis donraj testify i mean he said that
00:19:15.600he tried to bring in conservative voices on his show and was basically told that uh cbc is a no
00:19:22.000fly zone for conservative voices uh but perhaps it's a little different i mean they are it's a
00:19:28.320compartmentalized public broadcaster that certain shows get to do certain things at least
00:19:33.520it's it's beyond my comprehension but well i think i i would just say too i i think the disclosure
00:19:40.640of your perspective is also important on these things right so if you're going to have uh people
00:19:46.700regularly on um who uh are coming are you know projecting as experts but like non-partisan
00:19:54.440experts but they actually are partisan like people need to be truthful about uh about their
00:19:59.240disclosures. And I think there's a lot of talent to go around, right? So if you are, you know,
00:20:06.320running back-to-back current affairs programming, and you want to make sure you don't have the same
00:20:11.340guest on, let's say, you know, back-to-back, I get that. Like, that's not good television,
00:20:16.280right? If you just have the same people on over and over again, it's good to have
00:20:19.140that diversity. But I think that diversity does exist. I think that there are a lot of people
00:20:23.780in Canada that are worth speaking to and interviewing from the centre-right. And so
00:20:28.860it's certainly not an issue of a lack of a talent pool on the conservative side of things.
00:20:35.680How do people follow you online and find you on the internet?
00:20:40.220They can check me out. I'm occasionally on X, usually with a comment about whatever news story
00:20:47.440of the day is out there at Caitlin Harrison. And that's really what I prefer. I occasionally do
00:20:54.780some stuff on LinkedIn. But honestly, Mark, I'm a mom of two, a six-year-old and a five-year-old
00:21:01.280and not spending a ton of time online these days. But if people want to check me out, they can do
00:21:06.600it on X. Absolutely. You have important things to do on the family front and good on you. Thank
00:21:11.860you so much for coming on the show. Please come back sometime. Yeah, absolutely. Great to be here.
00:21:15.820Thank you. Kate Harrison. If you enjoyed this show, consider supporting great independent
00:21:21.000journalism by becoming a premier member of Juno News, please go to junonews.com backslash straight
00:21:27.640up. You can find the link below. It helps us do what we do here at Juno News. Thank you so much.