Juno News - CBC panelists TURN on Mark Carney？!

00:00:00.000 with the july 1st trade deadline less than two weeks away president trump says he'd

00:00:11.040 rather not extend the usmca trade deal the u.s and canada are in the midst of negotiations aimed

00:00:17.600 at extending the deal but trump says his country is better off without it we do better without

00:00:24.160 an agreement. Do you want to just leave it enrolling? I would rather leave it unsigned.

00:00:29.420 I'd rather have it terminated. You'd rather have it terminated? Those are different things,

00:00:33.160 sir. I just want to become clear. I would rather not have the agreement, but I may sign it. Right.

00:00:37.980 But I would rather, we'd do better as a country if we don't have an agreement.

00:00:42.700 On July 1st, Canada, the United States, and Mexico must hold a formal review of the agreement.

00:00:49.220 They'll decide whether to extend it for another 16 years or not.

00:00:54.880 Even liberal commentators are accusing Prime Minister Carney of thumbing his nose at Parliament.

00:01:01.020 Not only are they ripping the government over the shutting down of debate on highly controversial bills,

00:01:08.300 they're also calling Carney out on his dismal attendance record at question period.

00:01:13.640 They say he's prioritizing things like sporting events over question period,

00:01:19.220 here he is making a speech in the locker room of the world cup canadian soccer team i'll just say

00:01:26.260 it's i couldn't be prouder as a canadian and on behalf of all canadians i just want to thank you

00:01:32.500 for everything you put in you get here you represent the nation represent your families

00:01:38.580 your friends and teach a lesson now conservatives have mockingly celebrated carney's 100th missed

00:01:46.820 question period, saying the PM doesn't want to answer for his failed economic record.

00:01:52.800 Carney didn't show up today. He didn't show up yesterday, and he's not showing up tomorrow. In

00:01:57.960 fact, of the 136 question periods, Mark Carney has missed 100 of them. He's skipped out on almost

00:02:05.960 75% of all the times that parliamentarians came to hold his government to account.

00:02:11.600 This is what democracy in Canada is all about, where the government brings its proposals to the House of Commons and members of parliaments of all parties hold those decisions to account.

00:02:23.000 But instead, he just doesn't even show up.

00:02:27.240 Well, the state-funded CBC, Liberal-friendly panelists were united in slapping down the Prime Minister over his dismissive attitude when it comes to question period.

00:02:36.940 The real issue is not that the Prime Minister wanted to cheer the men's soccer team.

00:02:41.200 It's not that he's at the G7. It's that when he's in Ottawa, upstairs in his office, sometimes he does not make the effort to go down the stairs and answer the opposition's questions.

00:02:52.820 And why it matters, it's because it's called the House of Commons. We are the Commons.

00:02:57.060 Those questions, even though sometimes they're kind of stupid, they are asked on our behalf. 0.94

00:03:02.360 And, you know, Justin Trudeau did not have as great an attendance as Stephen Harper, but he came every Wednesday and answered every single question. 0.99

00:03:10.160 this Prime Minister does not do that. So I think it is a lack of respect of Parliament and it feeds

00:03:15.280 into a narrative that the opposition is certainly trying to create that he's more of a CEO Prime

00:03:19.220 Minister than a parliamentary leader. We'll see if the public cares. You cannot be the person who

00:03:24.620 is preaching around the world respect for institutions and then treat the institution

00:03:30.060 where you are accountable as a place that is of no interest to you. And Mark Carney has the same

00:03:37.540 obligations as brian maloney stephen harper uh and whoever came and justin trudeau and they all

00:03:45.380 managed to show up our guest today is brian lily columnist at the toronto sun he can also be found

00:03:51.940 at substack at brianlily.com welcome brian thanks for having me uh having me mark it's uh it's a

00:04:00.180 Beautiful, drink it day, as the Scots would say, here in Toronto.

00:04:04.780 It's overcast, threatening to rain, you know, launching the World Cup.

00:04:10.260 It's all good.

00:04:11.140 It's all good, yeah.

00:04:13.040 Now, while many Canadians, Brian, have been focused on the World Cup or the G7,

00:04:19.700 the Liberal government was shutting down debate on some hotly contested bills,

00:04:24.180 which some say restrict the freedoms of Canadians.

00:04:26.740 and even the Liberal-friendly panelists on the CBC have taken note.

00:04:31.760 Let's listen to this clip.

00:04:34.820 But I actually want to talk about what happened this week

00:04:37.580 because I think it feeds into a possible problem

00:04:40.420 that the Liberals need to be attuned to.

00:04:44.020 Last week, Michael Savia, speaking at the Eurasia Group,

00:04:47.440 this is the clerk of the Privy Council,

00:04:48.840 talked about one of the things the Kearney government has

00:04:51.140 that's an asset, which is trust from the public.

00:04:54.300 What happened this week is that the Liberals decided

00:04:56.660 to use their majority to shut down debate and pass legislation that is very controversial.

00:05:03.100 Bills that were not studied, in some cases had no witnesses that even testified as to whether this

00:05:10.440 was good or bad. We had the lawful access bill that has gotten a bit more attention across the

00:05:16.400 country. And the government completely shut down the debate. In some cases, they even backdated

00:05:23.720 the ability of opposition members to bring forward amendments so only government members

00:05:28.160 could bring forward amendments. We have never seen anything like this.

00:05:33.260 Right. Here he is acting, according to some, more like a CEO than a prime minister. What do you

00:05:38.320 think, Ryan? So I watched that full clip and all three panelists went on to say they had never

00:05:45.460 seen anything like this. So I've been covering Parliament Hill for more than 20 years now.

00:05:50.540 I've never seen anything like this. I started during the Paul Martin minority. I'd covered

00:05:55.740 Parliament Hill infrequently during the latter part of the Khrushchev years, but as a full-time

00:06:01.960 job started in Martin's minority. And of course, we all heard that Stephen Harper was incredibly

00:06:08.720 authoritarian and awful, and we just ran through bills. Never like this. Bill C-22,

00:06:18.420 you know, I did a whole episode on the Full Comment podcast that I host about this bill

00:06:24.860 and spoke to Dick Fadden, who, you know, a man who I have great respect for, you know,

00:06:30.600 former Deputy Minister of Defense, former head of CSIS, National Security Advisor to

00:06:36.620 Prime Minister Harper, and then Prime Minister Trudeau until Trudeau realized Fadden was hawkish

00:06:42.040 on China and got rid of him. And Fadden made the case for why the bill was necessary. But I also

00:06:47.540 spoke to people like Natalie Campbell from the Internet Society, who, you know, raised a lot of

00:06:54.820 questions. And tech companies have raised a lot of questions around C-22. The Conservatives said,

00:07:00.680 look, here's what we're willing to do on C-22, your Lawful Access Act. We will agree to pass

00:07:07.600 part one, but part two, we need more study on. Liberals said, no, we're going to push it through.

00:07:13.740 There are a whole bunch of companies that have said they will stop offering certain services or just pull out of Canada if this bill takes effect.

00:07:23.080 And so it's going to require Apple to do certain things that Apple says they will never do.

00:07:28.760 So if you have an iPhone, you have a MacBook, you use any Apple services, some of them may disappear.

00:07:37.540 VPN companies that are based in Canada have said they cannot operate under these circumstances.

00:07:42.640 You know, and the worst part, though, Mark, is you can say, well, C-22 only does a little bit, but then C-9 does a little bit, and then this bill does a little bit, and then you add them all up, and there is a cumulative effect in terms of how the government regulates the Internet, that how the government regulates free speech that should leave everyone more than a little concerned, and that is the problem here.

00:08:09.440 And then how they push them through at the last moment using closure, time allocation, as it's officially called in in Parliament, shutting down debate.

00:08:20.940 You know, this is if this were a conservative government, the headlines would be nonstop.

00:08:27.140 I'm I will give full credit to CBC. You know, I'm not a fan of theirs. You know, I'm a harsh critic of CBC.

00:08:33.220 I'll give them full credit for allowing that dissent to air.

00:08:39.020 But why isn't that the lead story for everyone on Parliament Hill?

00:08:43.520 Yeah, you even wrote an entire book about your criticisms about the CBC.

00:08:48.180 I may have it right here, yeah.

00:08:50.860 Never far.

00:08:53.660 There was also the issue, of course, of not showing up to Parliament.

00:08:56.920 But I think the timing of all of this is interesting because, as I mentioned in the run-up to the interview,

00:09:02.100 um other things are going on you know canadians are focused on summer coming up uh having a good

00:09:10.320 time maybe watching some world i hope we're all gonna have a good time this summer oh yeah

00:09:15.700 you know watching soccer where canada's performing well and there was the g7 of course and the whole

00:09:23.640 spectacle around what happened there with trump and talk of trade and we can get to that so it's

00:09:29.160 almost like, well, if we're ever, if we're going to push this thing through, now's the time to do

00:09:32.440 that. Everybody's looking the other way. You get that sense? Yeah, that's kind of what happened.

00:09:38.960 Look, most people don't look at when the parliamentary calendar starts or ends as

00:09:46.160 someone that used to sit in the hot room on the third floor center block for many, many years.

00:09:52.800 that kind of dictated my life.

00:09:55.880 Like, you know, I couldn't take time off

00:09:58.340 when the house was in session.

00:09:59.960 I couldn't take vacation at certain times

00:10:01.860 if we thought the government might fall.

00:10:03.480 And that may sound like first world problems,

00:10:05.540 but, you know, we all, you know,

00:10:07.380 this is why I was paying attention to it

00:10:09.160 is this defined my life.

00:10:11.940 And so I still pay pretty close attention to it.

00:10:15.180 And they pushed these things through

00:10:17.960 under the darkness of night and just said,

00:10:21.140 there you go um this is democracy they would have been screaming bloody murder if the conservatives

00:10:27.600 did this and you know so now i'm i'm sitting here in toronto i'm no longer in ottawa i'm sitting here

00:10:34.620 in toronto about 500 meters from queen's park and i can tell you that doug ford gets more

00:10:42.780 scrutiny over how he runs things than mark carney does and doug ford doesn't shove through bills

00:10:50.720 nearly as bad. Look, and I have a lot of criticism of Doug Ford and the PC government

00:10:56.180 here in Ontario. I think that the way the legislature works in Ontario compared to how

00:11:02.220 it works in Ottawa is subpar in terms of committees and checks and balances. But if Doug

00:11:10.860 Ford shoved through the kind of bills that Mark Carney just did, using time allocation to shut

00:11:16.420 down debate, you would never hear the end of it. It would actually be a national story that would

00:11:21.160 lead CBC's The National. It wouldn't just be a three-minute conversation at the end of the ad

00:11:27.440 issue panel. It would be the dominant story on the front page of The Globe, The Star, on Global News,

00:11:34.140 on CTV, on CBC. But Mark Carney does it? Well, vibes, man, vibes. Carney's great. Like, didn't

00:11:42.300 you just see him in Europe everyone in Europe loves him he went to Ireland did you see that

00:11:47.140 he was in Ireland Ireland's great and they love Mark Carney so we all love Mark Carney

00:11:51.640 okay guys let's be real crime is up repeat offenders are released on bail police responses

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00:13:01.480 Well, none of this would have been happening if we didn't have the four crossings.

00:13:05.220 So I think that's what makes it a little more galling from my perspective is that you didn't get a majority in the normal way.

00:13:14.580 You didn't get it's a manufactured majority. 0.97

00:13:18.500 Marilyn Gladue. I was just speaking with someone from the conservative party the day about that and and how Marilyn Gladue would chastise everyone else for not being a true conservative.

00:13:31.480 And I remember her and her camp coming after me for not interviewing her promptly enough when she wanted to run for the leadership.

00:13:40.780 When was that? In 2019, I guess, after Andrew Scheer lost 2019, 2020.

00:13:48.720 Oh, why aren't you interviewing her? Well, I mean, she didn't make the cut.

00:13:51.980 She couldn't get the signatures or raise the money. And but, you know, she was the true blue candidate.

00:13:57.760 Why aren't you interviewing the true blue candidate?

00:14:00.020 Is that because you're not a real conservative? 0.67

00:14:02.040 And then she crosses the floor. 1.00

00:14:03.960 Like, you know, I have trouble with all the floor crossers. 1.00

00:14:07.920 I have the biggest problem with Marilyn Gladue. 1.00

00:14:10.480 Yeah, I agree.

00:14:11.640 Let's talk a little bit about trade with the minutes that we've got left.

00:14:14.680 Because, of course, now we have President Trump coming out again and saying,

00:14:18.220 I'd rather not sign this thing anyway.

00:14:20.620 And so you've got all the negotiations going on.

00:14:23.840 And then the president comes out and said, well, you can negotiate it.

00:14:27.500 I might sign it if I feel like it, but on the other hand, I might not, because we're

00:14:31.320 better off without it.

00:14:32.920 What should we take from that?

00:14:34.900 Don't take too much from it.

00:14:36.660 Trump's made these comments off and on over the last year.

00:14:40.680 The guy to watch is Jameson Greer, the United States trade representative.

00:14:45.960 Greer has said that, yes, he has problems with Kuzma, as it has been implemented, but

00:14:52.060 also says there are, his words, load-bearing walls.

00:14:57.500 of this agreement for the american economy what happens when you take out a load-bearing wall

00:15:02.700 things collapse so he wants to keep it now here's the thing if you've been listening to

00:15:09.340 the mainstream media and i'm sure your audience is not but if you're just listening to the

00:15:14.540 mainstream media what have you been hearing for months mark that nothing will change on july 1st

00:15:21.100 and yet i've read the deal and here's the problem i don't think most of my colleagues in the

00:15:26.300 mainstream media did read the deal. They didn't read Kuzma. They didn't read what the options on

00:15:32.200 the table are. And there's three. And so option number one, this is a 16-year deal. And there is

00:15:41.140 a requirement within the deal to review it on the sixth anniversary. The sixth anniversary is July

00:15:48.060 1st, 2026. So Canada has already put forward that its position is that it wants to renew

00:15:54.540 for another 16 years. So making it a 32-year deal. NAFTA had no expiry date. Trump wanted an expiry

00:16:02.720 date or the option to pull out. So option number one we've chosen is let's renew it for another

00:16:09.440 16 years. If that happens, that's great for us. That is the best outcome for Canada because so

00:16:15.300 much of our trade is dependent on the United States. Option number two is the United States

00:16:22.080 gives us six months notice, and they pull out. I don't see that happening, as I said, based on,

00:16:27.620 you know, Trump's threatened it, he's talked about it, but based on what Greer has said,

00:16:31.300 I don't see that happening. But option number three may actually be the worst, because option

00:16:36.760 number one, we renew for 16 years, stability, certainty. Option number two, they pull out,

00:16:42.680 okay, that's bad, but we know that there's, you know, what the outcome is, and there's some

00:16:48.120 certainty, and then we have to adapt. Option number three is that we continue the deal for

00:16:54.900 the remaining 10 years, but there are annual reviews of the contents. Well, that delivers

00:17:02.780 uncertainty, and that is the most likely outcome. So expect that on July 1st, we turn around and we

00:17:11.880 are in annual renegotiations of Kuzma. Now, look, the Trump administration doesn't want

00:17:18.520 to reopen Kuzma because doing that will require it to go to Congress. And there's a good chance

00:17:26.420 that come November, the Republicans will lose the House. They may not lose the Senate. It looked

00:17:31.580 like for a while they were going to lose both. And then the Democrats, you know, started appointing

00:17:36.580 some or selecting some nutty candidates. So the Republicans may save the Senate, but most likely

00:17:44.800 they're going to lose the House. They've got to get it through both houses of Congress. So what's

00:17:50.120 going to happen? We're going to go into this annual review of Kuzma and then any deal on the

00:17:55.500 sectoral tariffs on steel, on aluminum, on autos. It's going to be kind of a wraparound agreement on

00:18:01.440 Kuzma, done in a way that doesn't require congressional approval. So we'll probably end

00:18:06.940 up with some type of tariff on these products, say 10%. And then once we go above a certain

00:18:13.740 amount of exports, so I don't know, let's say we, you know, you can export X amount of steel

00:18:20.480 at this tariff rate of 10%, and anything above that is going to be 50%. We'll see something like

00:18:26.360 that come about. Same with aluminum, same with autos. But we're not going to get the full deal

00:18:34.300 on Kuzma that we wanted. And I'm not sure that Mark Carney cares because he gets to walk away

00:18:40.320 from this no matter what happens by saying, well, see, Donald Trump. I mean, you can't negotiate

00:18:45.560 with the guy. And if he gets what he wants, he gets to say, see, I'm great. And the Canadian

00:18:51.080 public, in my view, is going to eat it up either way. This is bad news for the Conservatives,

00:18:57.700 because so many Canadians are still giving Carney the benefit of the doubt when he doesn't deserve

00:19:03.380 it. He's done a lot to get us to this position where the Americans don't want to renew the deal.

00:19:10.000 But, you know, he gets to use the get out of free jail card, which is Donald Trump.

00:19:15.160 And yet, I've noticed and heard that some of the polling is beginning to soften for the Liberals.

00:19:22.380 That's not quite as strong for them.

00:19:26.640 And that may partially be the fact that the NDP is kind of repatriating some of the votes that went over to the Liberals in the last election.

00:19:35.920 Do you see this trend continuing?

00:19:38.520 Look, for the Conservatives, you've got to hope that that continues.

00:19:42.000 We're not at the point yet where the conservatives are threatening the liberal majority, even with the NDP coming back.

00:19:50.840 You know, how much can Abby Lewis pound the government run grocery stores idea to pull votes away?

00:19:57.780 I'm not sure. We're at the beginning of a trend. 0.98

00:20:01.760 If you remember the first poll that showed a big gap between the conservatives and the liberals,

00:20:07.740 Because even though the Conservatives lost the election in 2025, for several months, Pierre Polyev and his team held it very close with the Liberals.

00:20:16.980 And then mid to end of January, a Leger poll for Postmedia, my employer, was the first to show a big gap.

00:20:25.780 And I looked at that and I said, OK, this is either an outlier or the beginning of a trend, and we'll know in a couple of weeks.

00:20:32.720 And it turned out that was the beginning of a trend.

00:20:35.260 unfortunately, I was hoping it was the outlier. Now we're going to have to do the same thing here.

00:20:40.380 Is Ivy Lewis bringing people back? Will they hold? And then the liberals have been geniuses

00:20:47.420 at this. We saw it in 93, 97, 2000. We've seen it in 2019 and 2021. They know how to scare NDP

00:20:56.960 voters into their fold just enough to hold on to power. And so they might be able to do that again.

00:21:02.960 Conservatives are in a very tough spot until Donald Trump is gone because the liberals have

00:21:09.300 figured out how to turn him into the boogeyman for everything that ails you. And even if he's

00:21:14.720 not actually responsible, like we haven't made our economy as robust and competitive as we need to.

00:21:21.400 We haven't gotten out of our own way in terms of oil and gas and mining and everything else.

00:21:27.440 But whether it's Mark Carney or Doug Ford or Wob Canoe, they're just, oh, Trump.

00:21:32.620 And voters say, oh, yeah, Trump.

00:21:35.100 And they will blame things on Trump that Trump has nothing to do with.

00:21:40.160 And that keeps these guys in power.

00:21:41.920 So I'm hopeful, but, you know, hope is, what does Mark Carney say?

00:21:48.760 Hope isn't a strategy?

00:21:50.740 Yeah, well, he's right there.

00:21:52.000 But I'm wondering if it'll be a little harder to scare leftists, New Democrats, back into the liberal tent, given his experience now as Barkarney tries to inch over to the center of the political spectrum.

00:22:05.880 I don't see him inching over to the center.

00:22:08.360 I really don't.

00:22:09.460 I think he I think that's vibes.

00:22:12.460 I think that is a feeling.

00:22:14.780 I don't think it's reality.

00:22:17.240 And the way the way I've described now, I'll end on this.

00:22:19.780 I know you want to get going, is people keep asking me, when will Canadians wake up to Mark Carney and that he's not good for us? 0.91

00:22:27.980 And I keep saying, it's a bit like trying to convince your 17-year-old daughter that her boyfriend's a bum.

00:22:33.820 She won't listen to you until one day when she wakes up and goes, this guy's no good for me.

00:22:39.860 But until then, he can do no wrong, and she's in love with him, and you've just got to sit back and hope for the best.

00:22:47.820 on that note we'll wrap things up thank you so much for coming on the show brian

00:22:52.740 appreciate it thank you if you enjoyed this show consider supporting independent journalism by

00:22:58.100 becoming a premier member of juno news please go to junonews.com backslash straight up you can find

00:23:04.920 the link below it helps us do what we do thank you so much for tuning in we'll see you next time

Juno News - June 21, 2026

CBC panelists TURN on Mark Carney？!

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