Juno News - November 17, 2022


China is walking all over Canada and Trudeau


Episode Stats


Length

36 minutes

Words per minute

151.3774

Word count

5,594

Sentence count

260

Harmful content

Misogyny

3

sentences flagged

Hate speech

25

sentences flagged


Summary

Summaries generated with gmurro/bart-large-finetuned-filtered-spotify-podcast-summ .

In this episode, Andrew Lawton takes a look at the ongoing Public Order Emergency Commission investigation into alleged Chinese espionage in Canada, and discusses the extent of China's influence in Canada and around the world. He also points out that China is becoming a global superpower, and that it has been using its influence to advance its political and economic interests.

Transcript

Transcript generated with Whisper (turbo).
Misogyny classifications generated with MilaNLProc/bert-base-uncased-ear-misogyny .
Hate speech classifications generated with facebook/roberta-hate-speech-dynabench-r4-target .
00:00:00.000 Welcome to Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show.
00:00:05.100 This is the Andrew Lawton Show, brought to you by True North.
00:00:13.440 Hello and welcome to you all. It is Wednesday, November 16th, 2022.
00:00:19.680 The Canada's Most Irreverent Talk Show is about to begin here on True North.
00:00:25.520 You're tuned in to the Andrew Lawton Show and I thank you very much.
00:00:28.760 It was a bit of a slower day before the Public Order Emergency Commission,
00:00:33.960 but I am going to talk about what's happened there because I think in general,
00:00:37.540 we're seeing the culmination of all of this evidence and testimony and documents
00:00:42.960 and all of that coming forward, which is continually chipping away at,
00:00:47.540 if not completely eroding, the federal government's narrative
00:00:51.680 about the necessity and the justification of the Emergencies Act.
00:00:56.060 So we're going to talk about that in a little bit of depth later on.
00:00:59.700 But I want to shift the spotlight to China, 0.93
00:01:03.000 which is not something I've talked about on the program in a while.
00:01:05.500 It's an issue that matters a great deal.
00:01:08.020 China is vastly becoming a global superpower
00:01:11.380 and you needn't look further than Canada to see it.
00:01:15.440 But on the global scene, it's incredibly important to start paying attention to this.
00:01:19.700 One issue which doesn't get nearly enough attention is China's Belt and Road Initiative.
00:01:24.380 This is a multi-trillion dollar investment plan that basically entraps the developing world
00:01:32.100 in economic colonialism.
00:01:34.740 But when you go to places like in the Caribbean or in Africa or poorer Asian countries,
00:01:40.600 you'll see all these brand new airports, bridges, highways.
00:01:43.680 It's all paid for by China. 0.62
00:01:47.100 And some have said this is debt-trap diplomacy.
00:01:49.120 No matter what, it is China extending its tentacles very far 0.66
00:01:53.860 so that there are trade networks connecting China with all reaches of the globe.
00:01:58.660 It's flipping around the old 15th century or 16th century mercantilism
00:02:04.260 to the benefit of China and the Politburo.
00:02:08.440 And it's not just economic influence, though.
00:02:10.880 It's also security influence as well.
00:02:13.180 There has been a vast infiltration of global institutions such as governments,
00:02:19.720 academic institutions, private sector organizations, corporate cultures
00:02:24.620 that have seen Chinese state operatives take on, in some cases, very prominent roles.
00:02:32.120 In many cases, it may be to advance the Chinese Politburo's agenda.
00:02:36.400 Maybe it's just to create economic ties.
00:02:39.060 In some cases, it is for the direct purpose of espionage.
00:02:44.160 Just this week, we had espionage charges against a Chinese operative
00:02:48.620 who had been working for Hydro-Quebec.
00:02:50.620 Now, what it is that he wanted from Hydro-Quebec that China was interested in,
00:02:55.440 I have no idea.
00:02:56.360 But the RCMP has accused Yue-Shang Wang,
00:02:59.320 who was a researcher for Hydro-Quebec, of espionage.
00:03:02.820 And they have now charged him and said he was illegally doing work
00:03:06.440 for Chinese institutions well-employed at Quebec's hydro-regulator.
00:03:10.580 This is just one of many cases.
00:03:12.460 We still don't have answers on exactly what was happening by those researchers
00:03:16.600 that were employed at Canada's only Level 4 biolab, the lab in Winnipeg,
00:03:22.340 which the government has gone through painstaking efforts
00:03:24.920 to conceal the documents connecting to that investigation.
00:03:30.620 So the evidence of Chinese infiltration is vast and ongoing.
00:03:35.600 We keep finding more and more examples of this,
00:03:38.340 not to mention politicians who have been compromised by China.
00:03:42.700 In the U.S., there was that Democrat presidential candidate,
00:03:45.940 Eric Swalwell, a couple of years ago.
00:03:48.060 In Canada, CSIS has made claims about Chinese influence of politicians as well,
00:03:53.600 including a former provincial cabinet minister in Ontario,
00:03:56.940 a former federal conservative member of parliament,
00:03:59.500 and possibly many more conservative MPs and liberal MPs alike.
00:04:05.080 That was not meant to be directed at one party.
00:04:07.760 It's that we know for a fact China has tried to support a network of 11 federal candidates.
00:04:16.340 And this was in the 2019 election.
00:04:18.160 They put money towards this.
00:04:19.840 They may have spread misinformation to go against incumbents,
00:04:23.420 but 11 federal candidates, not all of them liberal.
00:04:26.960 And this list has not yet been presented of exactly which candidates we're talking about.
00:04:31.700 We know in one case that Kenny Chu, who will be on the show in just a few moments' time,
00:04:37.480 he was targeted by the Chinese polar bearer.
00:04:40.420 Now, not targeted with support, targeted with opposition.
00:04:43.780 Perhaps they didn't like his strong support of Hong Kong
00:04:46.640 and his criticism of the Chinese regime.
00:04:50.520 But we know that China was using Canadian institutions and Canadian networks
00:04:55.380 to funnel money towards its chosen politicians.
00:04:58.980 And what are we supposed to say about this as a country?
00:05:01.340 Ah, well, it's no big deal.
00:05:02.780 It's no big threat.
00:05:03.900 The world is still treating Chairman Xi Jinping as being the partner in climate,
00:05:08.660 because if you are a partner in climate,
00:05:10.780 it doesn't actually matter what else you do.
00:05:12.540 You can get a seat at the big boys' table.
00:05:15.400 And when it comes to criticizing China's genocide of Uyghurs in its Xinjiang province,
00:05:22.460 even then, Justin Trudeau will clam up and refuse to call a spade a spade.
00:05:27.500 This is what happened when he was asked about this on one of his foreign junkets this week.
00:05:32.980 Today, you took an emotional tour of Cambodia's Genocide Museum.
00:05:36.700 Tomorrow, you're going to be at the G20 with China.
00:05:39.200 The Canadian Parliament has already called China's treatment of the Uyghurs a genocide.
00:05:43.900 So why haven't you?
00:05:49.920 As I've seen when I visited the Shoah Memorial, the Holocaust Memorial in Israel,
00:05:59.900 as I've seen, as I visited the Holocaust Memorial, the genocide memorial in Rwanda,
00:06:11.020 as I saw today, visiting and seeing the history of the genocide that happened here in Cambodia,
00:06:21.740 the word genocide, acts of genocide are things to be taken incredibly seriously as a world.
00:06:37.980 And we have objective, historical, expert processes to put in place those words and those designations.
00:06:51.720 We continue to call out vicious human rights abuses around the world,
00:06:57.160 including against the Uyghurs in Xinjiang by the Chinese government.
00:07:02.500 But designations of genocide need to be made by proper international authorities.
00:07:11.920 So he takes that little awkward pause there, says, well, remember, genocide is a big word,
00:07:24.120 and we don't just like throwing around those big words.
00:07:26.700 You know, that might be a defensible position if Justin Trudeau hadn't used the word genocide
00:07:32.760 to describe his own country.
00:07:35.520 Now, if you're going to be the guy that says, you know what, we really want to think carefully
00:07:50.980 about using the word genocide, that's perfectly fine. 0.98
00:07:53.360 But don't use it against yourself and not against China 0.99
00:07:56.900 and expect that you're not going to get called out on that.
00:07:59.480 But as we've seen, Justin Trudeau has a big China-sized blind spot in his foreign policy.
00:08:06.760 Like I mentioned, when it comes to climate change, he's all about working with China, 0.97
00:08:09.960 hobnobbing away.
00:08:11.200 He will have the frank discussions.
00:08:13.120 He'll finger wag about the abduction of the two Michaels.
00:08:16.840 But when push comes to shove, where is the tough talk?
00:08:19.580 And I think it's important to play this clip that's been going viral from Bali,
00:08:23.800 the site of the G20 summit, where Justin Trudeau had a bilateral meeting with Chairman Xi.
00:08:30.480 And Chairman Xi didn't like the news of the contents of that meeting
00:08:34.900 made its way into the press.
00:08:37.520 And he decided to take his concerns to Justin Trudeau directly.
00:08:41.540 Everything we discussed and leaked to the Pesach, that's not the purpose.
00:08:49.660 And that's not how the way the conversation was conducted.
00:08:55.040 If there is a sincerity on your part,
00:09:07.720 free and open and frank dialogue, and that is what we will continue to have.
00:09:11.500 We will continue to work constructively together,
00:09:14.660 but there will be things we will disagree on.
00:09:19.920 Let's create the conditions first.
00:09:27.840 Now, I'm not going to take Chairman Xi's side here just to own the libs, as they say.
00:09:33.240 I think the Chinese regime is an absolutely terrible institution. 0.99
00:09:37.480 I think Chairman Xi is a terrible man.
00:09:39.280 And I think that world leaders who kowtow to him,
00:09:42.040 like the World Health Organization did,
00:09:44.040 like Justin Trudeau has at times, should be ashamed of themselves.
00:09:48.120 But I also will point out the inherent weakness here,
00:09:51.240 which, I mean, by the way, I do enjoy that Justin Trudeau
00:09:54.920 didn't even wait for the translator to translate
00:09:57.220 before just like using the talking points of,
00:09:59.840 oh, no, we will always support in Canada free and frank dialogue and so on.
00:10:04.320 He's just like, I don't actually know what I think about that.
00:10:06.340 But maybe I like cutting off the translator 1.00
00:10:08.740 because if you know that you don't care what he's going to say.
00:10:11.700 But where's the tough talk?
00:10:13.700 What Chairman Xi is doing there is blaming Justin Trudeau
00:10:16.220 for not clamping down on the press, evidently,
00:10:19.260 for allowing the media to report about what the two discussed
00:10:23.060 when I don't think it would be appropriate
00:10:25.280 for there not to be some scrutiny
00:10:27.440 about what the two were talking about,
00:10:30.420 especially when Canadians were understandably asking Justin Trudeau about it.
00:10:34.680 Did you condemn the genocide against the Uyghurs? 0.90
00:10:37.460 Did you condemn the influence and infiltration of Canadian institutions?
00:10:43.080 Why should Canada have to play nice with China 1.00
00:10:46.580 when China is out there trying to trample all over Canadian democracy? 0.96
00:10:51.400 We're going to talk to two men who know this file very well.
00:10:55.760 One is Garnet Jenis, the Conservative MP, who will join us very shortly.
00:10:59.640 And also Kenny Chu, the former Conservative MP,
00:11:02.720 who I've talked to about this issue in the past.
00:11:05.280 Kenny, it's good to have you back.
00:11:06.500 Thanks for coming on today.
00:11:08.360 Thank you for having me, Andrew.
00:11:10.380 Good to talk to you.
00:11:12.160 Let me just bring up the 2019 election
00:11:14.240 because you sounded the alarm about this.
00:11:16.420 And I think a lot of people kind of dismissed it
00:11:19.720 when you pointed out that there were some irregularities here
00:11:22.480 and that certainly you knew that you were the subject
00:11:25.560 and the target of misinformation campaigns
00:11:28.940 that were eerily similar to Chinese regime talking points here.
00:11:33.660 Information a couple of years later now reveals
00:11:36.260 that there were 11 federal candidates that China was backing.
00:11:41.140 And we haven't gotten the list of who those are.
00:11:43.140 But are you surprised by this, by the scale of this operation
00:11:47.200 in the 2019 election?
00:11:49.420 Not really, Andrew, because knowing what the Chinese communists 0.99
00:11:53.920 are capable of doing and their ambitions of performing,
00:11:59.720 influencing a country, an easy target like Canada
00:12:04.220 would be something they would do.
00:12:06.560 What I experienced in 2021,
00:12:10.980 it's something that would be even more outrageous and obvious
00:12:15.200 comparing to what CESIS has reported to Parliament and,
00:12:20.220 not Parliament, sorry, the Prime Minister's Office
00:12:22.500 and the Cabinet, certain selected ministers.
00:12:26.220 It would be even more so.
00:12:27.920 But with what happened in 2019,
00:12:31.960 CESIS now finally come to terms with it
00:12:35.240 and realize that there have been evidence of that happening,
00:12:39.120 I'm very curious to see what they're finding is for 2021,
00:12:44.340 not just because that I personally am involved,
00:12:48.200 but also because I know that there has been other cases
00:12:52.640 in 2021 election that China is interfering in our country.
00:12:58.660 So I'll ask about what you think the motivations are
00:13:03.780 because in your case,
00:13:04.740 you had been a critic of the Chinese regime
00:13:08.620 and it was understandable.
00:13:10.460 I don't, not support, something I support,
00:13:12.040 but it's understandable that the Chinese regime
00:13:15.580 wouldn't want someone who's criticizing them.
00:13:17.620 Is your view that China is trying to vote
00:13:21.020 or get Canadians to vote out critics
00:13:23.360 or do you think they actively want to support people
00:13:26.240 that they think are going to be friendly to them?
00:13:29.940 It's both, Andrew,
00:13:31.540 because what they want to do
00:13:33.560 is to influence Canada's positions on many issues.
00:13:40.840 And let me just take this opportunity to say this.
00:13:43.860 It's not just China.
00:13:45.000 It is common for foreign countries
00:13:47.720 to actually want to influence and interfere
00:13:50.720 with our country's policy and directions.
00:13:55.360 You know, Russia and Iran are two of the, you know,
00:13:59.780 countries that have been named several times
00:14:02.300 by CESA's reports.
00:14:03.960 However, given what China is now capable of doing, 0.68
00:14:09.200 doing resource-wise,
00:14:10.860 and also ambitious in doing,
00:14:14.080 they are the most capable
00:14:15.700 and the most blatant
00:14:17.320 in doing what they are doing right now.
00:14:19.900 And so I'm not surprised.
00:14:21.880 I, you know,
00:14:22.700 I'm surprised by how our country has failed
00:14:26.500 to protect not just our democracy,
00:14:29.360 our democratic institution,
00:14:30.940 but also, you know,
00:14:33.440 to say it blatantly,
00:14:35.340 to protect our visible minority
00:14:37.500 because China is now influencing,
00:14:41.120 trying to capture all Chinese diaspora
00:14:45.120 and telling them that, you know,
00:14:47.660 China is the only country 1.00
00:14:48.760 that represent their good,
00:14:50.540 their well-being.
00:14:51.600 And that's not the case
00:14:53.100 in a peaceful, multiculturalistic country
00:14:56.720 like our country, Canada.
00:14:59.160 Yeah, and I mean,
00:15:00.200 some of those diaspora challenges
00:15:01.960 are quite killing.
00:15:03.460 There was a story that came out,
00:15:05.100 I think it was a few weeks back or so,
00:15:07.500 where we found out that China
00:15:08.900 was managing these overseas police stations,
00:15:12.060 for lack of a better term,
00:15:13.260 and trying to give Chinese citizens
00:15:16.040 or Chinese nationals
00:15:17.480 who live in countries around the world,
00:15:19.520 including Canada,
00:15:20.700 a place to go
00:15:21.580 that seems to subvert law enforcement
00:15:24.440 in those countries.
00:15:25.640 So there is an active challenge,
00:15:28.140 it seems like,
00:15:28.760 for China's regime
00:15:29.980 to extend its reach
00:15:32.520 beyond its own territorial borders.
00:15:36.060 Absolutely, Andrew.
00:15:37.100 It's not the first time, though.
00:15:39.460 In 2015, if I recall,
00:15:42.480 Mr. Sam Cooper,
00:15:43.900 an investigative journalist,
00:15:45.640 he had already reported
00:15:46.840 that the Chinese police
00:15:48.480 are functioning in Canada.
00:15:49.980 And we know that Lai Chung-Sing,
00:15:53.080 a fugitive running away
00:15:54.600 from the Chinese communists,
00:15:57.000 he also reported
00:15:58.260 that he's been almost kidnapped successfully.
00:16:01.980 back to China.
00:16:03.700 The only difference is
00:16:05.260 the CCP now,
00:16:08.440 they have activated
00:16:09.900 people in the diaspora
00:16:12.040 into providing a location
00:16:14.400 and to help them
00:16:16.020 in doing so.
00:16:17.460 And that is very dangerous
00:16:19.100 because it now involves
00:16:20.920 Canadian citizens
00:16:21.880 doing what they're not supposed to do
00:16:24.040 and violating
00:16:24.800 what they're promised to Canada.
00:16:26.420 So, I know it's not
00:16:29.440 a silver bullet solution,
00:16:31.640 I'm assuming,
00:16:32.200 because we're talking
00:16:32.960 about an infiltration
00:16:33.960 that takes place
00:16:34.820 on a variety of fronts.
00:16:36.640 We know there's influence
00:16:37.820 in academia,
00:16:38.780 clearly in politics,
00:16:40.120 in elections,
00:16:40.860 and in media.
00:16:41.980 But what do you think
00:16:43.000 is the first step
00:16:43.900 to getting serious about this?
00:16:45.360 To make it
00:16:50.240 a non-partisan issue,
00:16:53.140 you know,
00:16:53.460 we must learn
00:16:54.800 from the Australians
00:16:56.540 who,
00:16:57.740 even though
00:16:58.400 has a far more dependency,
00:17:01.140 economic dependency,
00:17:02.140 on trade with China,
00:17:03.540 and yet they still
00:17:05.260 prioritise
00:17:06.320 their country's interests
00:17:08.180 way above
00:17:09.020 the partisan politics
00:17:10.180 that we're seeing
00:17:11.240 in Ottawa right now.
00:17:12.700 And if we do that,
00:17:14.400 if the Liberals
00:17:16.540 are more cooperative
00:17:17.840 with the NDPs
00:17:20.300 and the Conservatives
00:17:21.240 in, for example,
00:17:22.960 labelling what's happening
00:17:24.560 in Xinjiang, China,
00:17:26.500 as genocide,
00:17:27.400 say, for example,
00:17:28.540 upholding what Canada's 0.97
00:17:30.320 long respected value
00:17:32.280 of human rights
00:17:33.640 and, you know,
00:17:35.820 rule of law,
00:17:36.680 et cetera, et cetera,
00:17:37.800 well, you know what?
00:17:39.000 China will get the message. 0.88
00:17:40.520 China gets the message 0.96
00:17:41.400 that it doesn't matter
00:17:42.380 who is in Ottawa,
00:17:44.680 who is the government.
00:17:46.520 You know,
00:17:46.900 this is a national interest
00:17:48.680 that they will be upholding.
00:17:50.340 However,
00:17:51.020 by not doing it,
00:17:52.080 by not exercising
00:17:54.440 their political responsibility,
00:17:59.460 we are actually sending out
00:18:00.960 a message
00:18:01.380 message to the Iranians,
00:18:02.940 the Russians,
00:18:03.740 and the Chinese 0.83
00:18:04.520 that we are weak.
00:18:08.100 We're a country
00:18:09.400 that are naive,
00:18:11.480 that are idealistic,
00:18:13.120 and we're not serious
00:18:14.600 about protecting
00:18:15.320 our own interests.
00:18:16.200 Why do you think
00:18:18.640 this is such a blind spot
00:18:20.240 for the Liberals?
00:18:21.040 Because there's a large
00:18:22.260 Chinese-Canadian community
00:18:23.920 in this country,
00:18:24.880 and almost everyone
00:18:25.960 I've met within that community
00:18:27.240 is a proud
00:18:28.780 and patriotic Canadian,
00:18:30.080 and the reason
00:18:30.780 they're here,
00:18:31.320 by and large,
00:18:31.820 is because they were
00:18:32.440 trying to get away
00:18:33.020 from the Chinese regime,
00:18:34.560 and I'm not saying
00:18:35.160 there aren't some
00:18:35.780 that may be here
00:18:36.900 that are still loyal
00:18:37.920 to that government,
00:18:39.440 but by and large,
00:18:40.300 I would think,
00:18:41.340 from my experience,
00:18:42.340 that Chinese-Canadians
00:18:43.360 want the government here
00:18:44.620 to take a strong position.
00:18:45.820 So why do the Liberals
00:18:47.960 find themselves
00:18:49.100 having so much difficulty
00:18:50.540 doing that?
00:18:52.740 In my own opinion,
00:18:54.560 my, I believe,
00:18:56.020 is a Liberal idealism.
00:18:58.360 It's a byproduct
00:18:59.120 of marrying
00:19:00.400 a Liberal idealism
00:19:01.700 with, you know,
00:19:04.540 very crude benefits
00:19:08.360 in doing trades,
00:19:10.640 in getting money,
00:19:12.660 and, you know,
00:19:13.420 getting donations.
00:19:14.180 We know that
00:19:14.880 the Prime Minister,
00:19:16.060 just by doing dumplings,
00:19:18.100 he gets, you know,
00:19:19.920 tons of donations
00:19:21.220 from many of these
00:19:23.000 very wealthy immigrants
00:19:25.180 and also citizens.
00:19:27.020 And idealism,
00:19:28.520 I mean,
00:19:28.800 if you look at
00:19:29.460 what Justin Trudeau's
00:19:30.840 father believed
00:19:31.980 about communism,
00:19:33.380 he has a romantic idea
00:19:35.320 of what communism is,
00:19:36.920 and he establishes
00:19:38.300 a very good relationship
00:19:39.960 with China
00:19:40.640 right in the middle
00:19:41.760 of China's
00:19:44.020 cultural revolution
00:19:45.700 that actually destroys
00:19:47.140 the cultural fabric
00:19:48.880 and the cultural soul
00:19:50.520 of this thousand-year-old China 0.53
00:19:53.760 and pitting fathers,
00:19:56.100 sons against fathers,
00:19:57.960 students against teachers,
00:19:59.900 destroying the entire society's moral.
00:20:02.220 And yet,
00:20:03.600 Justin Trudeau's father
00:20:04.840 believed that,
00:20:05.660 you know,
00:20:06.220 China,
00:20:07.140 the communist China,
00:20:08.820 it's actually something
00:20:09.660 that, you know,
00:20:10.560 he could ally with.
00:20:12.040 So with that kind of education,
00:20:14.160 with that kind of familial background
00:20:16.680 that is in place,
00:20:18.140 I'm not surprised
00:20:19.080 that Justin Trudeau
00:20:20.120 started with
00:20:21.620 an idealistic,
00:20:23.560 you know,
00:20:24.740 leaning
00:20:25.120 and also bias,
00:20:26.880 you know,
00:20:27.700 favorable
00:20:28.080 to the communist Chinese.
00:20:31.200 Yeah,
00:20:31.840 and I mean,
00:20:32.300 I think,
00:20:32.960 I mentioned it earlier,
00:20:34.120 but the climate change example
00:20:35.800 is a very good one here,
00:20:37.200 that you get all of these people
00:20:38.880 that are butting heads 0.93
00:20:39.980 about issues like,
00:20:40.940 oh,
00:20:41.120 perhaps the two Michaels
00:20:42.060 when they were imprisoned
00:20:43.020 or human rights abuses,
00:20:44.980 but everyone thinks
00:20:45.680 they can all just sort of
00:20:46.520 set that aside
00:20:47.200 because climate change.
00:20:48.420 And I think that it was very rich
00:20:50.140 when Chairman Xi says
00:20:51.260 that it's on Trudeau
00:20:52.300 to build the conditions
00:20:53.320 for frank discussion
00:20:54.840 when China
00:20:55.560 hasn't really been interested
00:20:56.960 in doing that on its part.
00:20:59.760 But our prime minister
00:21:01.180 is rich
00:21:02.280 in
00:21:02.820 the
00:21:03.980 lip services
00:21:05.360 and also,
00:21:06.440 you know,
00:21:06.840 signaling virtual.
00:21:08.020 Yeah,
00:21:08.460 neither comes off
00:21:09.400 particularly well there.
00:21:11.060 But he is extremely
00:21:12.320 weak in
00:21:13.080 actions
00:21:14.000 and
00:21:14.620 showing,
00:21:16.000 you know,
00:21:16.540 the actions,
00:21:17.720 the steps
00:21:18.460 that he is willing to take.
00:21:19.680 For example,
00:21:20.620 I mean,
00:21:20.900 yes,
00:21:21.160 I'm a conservative
00:21:22.040 and I was a conservative MP,
00:21:24.420 but,
00:21:25.080 you know,
00:21:25.440 I don't support
00:21:26.140 the conservative
00:21:26.600 because I'm a conservative MP.
00:21:28.700 I supported it
00:21:29.460 because I think
00:21:30.060 that they have done
00:21:30.740 something right.
00:21:31.660 Stephen Harper,
00:21:32.360 for example,
00:21:32.960 year after year
00:21:34.000 has been asserting
00:21:35.220 Canada's North
00:21:36.380 and Arctic
00:21:37.100 sovereignty
00:21:38.200 by visiting it
00:21:39.500 and having
00:21:40.320 exercises there.
00:21:41.920 What has Justin Trudeau
00:21:43.060 done
00:21:43.440 in those areas?
00:21:44.980 And we know
00:21:45.560 that Russia 0.72
00:21:46.120 is now eyeing it
00:21:47.180 and even
00:21:47.780 the People's Republic
00:21:49.120 of China.
00:21:49.960 It's actually eyeing
00:21:51.060 our Arctic
00:21:51.880 sovereignty
00:21:52.800 and regions
00:21:53.480 right now.
00:21:54.360 So,
00:21:54.780 you know,
00:21:55.180 if you are serious
00:21:56.100 about,
00:21:56.740 you know,
00:21:57.220 running a country,
00:21:58.160 you have to act
00:21:59.100 like a leader.
00:22:00.540 You have to actually
00:22:01.240 take some
00:22:01.820 tough stance
00:22:03.180 and unfortunately,
00:22:04.840 Andrew,
00:22:05.060 I haven't seen that
00:22:06.000 from Justin Trudeau
00:22:07.560 much.
00:22:08.660 Former Conservative MP
00:22:10.040 Kenny Chu.
00:22:10.640 Thank you so much
00:22:11.340 for your insights
00:22:11.860 as always,
00:22:12.400 Kenny.
00:22:12.600 Good to talk to you.
00:22:13.840 Thank you,
00:22:14.180 Andrew.
00:22:15.260 Thank you.
00:22:16.360 Yeah,
00:22:16.840 and I think,
00:22:17.540 look,
00:22:17.820 I don't look at
00:22:19.240 that little exchange
00:22:20.500 between Justin Trudeau
00:22:21.880 and Chairman Xi
00:22:22.980 and say that,
00:22:24.540 oh,
00:22:24.700 well,
00:22:24.980 yeah,
00:22:25.240 Chairman Xi
00:22:25.680 really told
00:22:26.280 Justin Trudeau.
00:22:27.000 No,
00:22:27.220 I think it's
00:22:27.760 actually embarrassing.
00:22:28.700 It's embarrassing
00:22:29.140 for everyone.
00:22:29.880 It's embarrassing
00:22:30.380 that Chairman Xi
00:22:31.680 gets to just
00:22:32.500 waltz all around
00:22:33.360 and walk all over
00:22:34.840 and smack talk 1.00
00:22:35.540 politicians with impunity
00:22:36.820 and it's embarrassing
00:22:37.980 that Justin Trudeau
00:22:39.140 puts out the image
00:22:40.420 that he's the kind
00:22:41.140 of guy you can do
00:22:41.980 that to,
00:22:42.520 that he does not,
00:22:43.680 I mean,
00:22:44.900 whatever you think
00:22:45.820 of Donald Trump,
00:22:46.760 who I know
00:22:47.240 just got back
00:22:47.980 into politics yesterday
00:22:49.760 if he ever even
00:22:50.460 really left
00:22:51.000 by announcing his bid
00:22:52.040 for the Republican
00:22:53.480 nomination in 2024,
00:22:55.180 do you ever think
00:22:56.840 in a million years
00:22:58.100 that Chairman Xi
00:22:59.960 would have done
00:23:00.680 to Donald Trump
00:23:02.200 what he did
00:23:03.000 to Justin Trudeau today?
00:23:05.560 Again,
00:23:06.380 whatever you think
00:23:07.460 of Donald Trump,
00:23:08.460 no one would try
00:23:09.720 that with him,
00:23:11.440 least of all China.
00:23:12.560 And I think
00:23:14.160 there's a lesson
00:23:14.920 in that,
00:23:15.360 not that Justin Trudeau
00:23:16.440 needs to be
00:23:16.980 like Donald Trump,
00:23:18.760 but that we are not
00:23:19.840 just hapless bystanders
00:23:22.040 unable to do
00:23:23.680 something about it.
00:23:24.620 Yes,
00:23:24.900 we have to accept
00:23:25.800 that we have
00:23:26.460 a disparity
00:23:27.580 in size
00:23:28.500 and power
00:23:29.240 and influence
00:23:30.160 and economic strength,
00:23:31.260 that's all true.
00:23:32.320 But just because
00:23:33.100 we are smaller
00:23:33.980 and less powerful
00:23:35.260 and less wealthy
00:23:36.020 than China
00:23:36.600 does not mean
00:23:37.540 we as a country
00:23:38.200 are doomed
00:23:38.620 to let China 0.53
00:23:39.260 walk all over us.
00:23:40.360 But we have to start
00:23:42.180 taking these things
00:23:43.080 seriously.
00:23:44.060 And people can ask
00:23:44.900 the question,
00:23:45.420 well,
00:23:45.680 what do you expect
00:23:46.340 Canada to do?
00:23:47.420 Well,
00:23:47.820 I mean,
00:23:48.260 what's that old
00:23:49.460 like line
00:23:50.120 that a journey
00:23:50.700 of a thousand miles
00:23:51.720 begins with a single step
00:23:53.220 or something schmaltzy
00:23:54.060 like that?
00:23:55.040 We can talk about
00:23:56.280 the things that we
00:23:56.880 aren't doing right now.
00:23:58.560 We are not taking
00:23:59.880 our domestic security
00:24:01.740 against foreign threats
00:24:03.540 very seriously.
00:24:04.700 We are not demanding
00:24:06.140 accountability
00:24:06.760 and making noise
00:24:08.280 about all of the
00:24:10.340 things that have happened
00:24:11.780 with these Chinese 1.00
00:24:12.580 influence campaigns.
00:24:13.640 Why is there not,
00:24:14.740 why is it not
00:24:15.580 front page news
00:24:16.540 that we had a guy
00:24:17.760 who's accused
00:24:18.320 of spying for China
00:24:19.600 working for a public
00:24:21.220 utility in Canada?
00:24:22.460 Why has everyone
00:24:23.400 just conveniently
00:24:24.100 moved on
00:24:24.940 from that discussion
00:24:26.880 about the demand
00:24:27.620 for documents
00:24:28.360 and accountability
00:24:28.940 and information
00:24:29.880 about those Chinese
00:24:31.520 spies that were
00:24:32.280 working for Canada's
00:24:33.540 secret biosecurity lab?
00:24:35.320 Why has that not been
00:24:37.160 an issue that has
00:24:38.540 remained front and center?
00:24:40.860 Why have we not
00:24:41.800 started demanding
00:24:42.900 politicians tell us
00:24:44.060 who the 11 candidates
00:24:45.180 were?
00:24:45.880 Who did China 0.98
00:24:46.680 want to win
00:24:47.680 in 2019?
00:24:50.860 Don't you think
00:24:51.760 that's kind of
00:24:52.300 interesting information
00:24:53.320 when CSIS is saying
00:24:54.400 yeah, there were
00:24:55.160 11 candidates
00:24:56.240 that China was backing.
00:24:57.640 There was money
00:24:58.260 flowing to them
00:24:59.200 including through
00:25:00.280 an elected member
00:25:01.720 of provincial
00:25:02.500 parliament's office.
00:25:03.720 So you have
00:25:05.860 an elected MPP
00:25:07.560 who is either
00:25:08.680 deliberately
00:25:09.440 or unknowingly
00:25:12.680 serving the interests
00:25:15.160 of China
00:25:15.840 according to our
00:25:17.580 intelligence agency
00:25:18.740 the Canadian Security
00:25:19.740 Intelligence Service.
00:25:22.060 This strikes me
00:25:23.300 as the kind of stuff
00:25:24.440 that a serious country
00:25:25.740 would be interested
00:25:27.360 in getting to the bottom of
00:25:28.480 but I'm becoming
00:25:29.080 more and more convinced
00:25:30.040 that Canada
00:25:30.600 is not interested
00:25:31.960 in being a serious country.
00:25:35.020 We'll cover this more
00:25:36.700 and I would say
00:25:37.720 that the Globe and Mail
00:25:38.540 has done some
00:25:39.180 tremendous work on this.
00:25:40.220 Global News
00:25:40.700 has done tremendous work.
00:25:41.800 I'm not saying
00:25:42.180 that the media
00:25:42.660 is not covering China.
00:25:44.040 I'm saying that
00:25:44.740 the government
00:25:45.500 needs to be taking
00:25:46.420 this seriously
00:25:47.120 and you have to look
00:25:47.920 at what on earth
00:25:48.420 is wrong with them
00:25:49.240 when they don't.
00:25:50.440 And you cannot separate
00:25:51.920 their relative inaction
00:25:53.840 on some of these things
00:25:54.700 from the fact that
00:25:55.520 liberals were clearly
00:25:56.560 the beneficiaries
00:25:57.220 at least in large part
00:25:58.540 of this alleged
00:25:59.960 Chinese influence
00:26:01.080 of our elections.
00:26:02.020 So take from that
00:26:02.820 what you will.
00:26:03.800 I want to talk about
00:26:04.580 the Public Order
00:26:05.500 Emergency Commission
00:26:06.500 process here
00:26:07.280 for a couple of moments
00:26:08.740 because this is something
00:26:09.680 that continues to go.
00:26:11.340 Nothing as explosive today
00:26:13.020 as what we heard yesterday
00:26:14.160 from notably
00:26:15.260 the Commissioner
00:26:16.080 of the RCMP
00:26:17.080 Brenda Luckey
00:26:18.060 but still some
00:26:19.380 interesting revelations
00:26:20.720 that I think
00:26:21.420 we didn't get a chance
00:26:22.220 to talk about yesterday
00:26:23.720 that I would argue
00:26:25.600 are fairly significant
00:26:27.660 for us to understand
00:26:29.080 what's going on here.
00:26:30.140 And I want to first
00:26:31.380 remind you
00:26:32.440 this is a clip
00:26:33.260 from former Deputy
00:26:34.300 Public Safety Minister
00:26:35.240 Rob Stewart
00:26:35.900 that no Intelligence Bureau
00:26:38.640 or law enforcement agency
00:26:40.080 identified any
00:26:41.680 CSIS threat act.
00:26:43.740 Take it away Rob.
00:26:45.200 What Intelligence Bureau
00:26:48.500 or agency
00:26:49.860 or law enforcement agency
00:26:51.820 told the government
00:26:54.020 here's the evidence
00:26:55.720 of reasonable
00:26:56.960 and probable grounds
00:26:58.200 or reasonable grounds
00:27:00.060 of a Section 2
00:27:01.900 CSIS Act threat?
00:27:04.160 And you know
00:27:04.720 I take it now
00:27:05.600 because it's advised to you
00:27:06.820 that that's required
00:27:08.560 to invoke
00:27:09.240 the Emergencies Act.
00:27:10.440 It's in the documents.
00:27:11.500 You were advised of that.
00:27:12.780 Yes.
00:27:13.240 Right.
00:27:13.620 So what agency
00:27:15.320 gave you
00:27:16.400 the evidence
00:27:18.080 and the intelligence
00:27:19.140 that said,
00:27:21.120 hey,
00:27:21.440 we have reasonable grounds
00:27:22.780 of a Section 2
00:27:23.520 CSIS Act threat?
00:27:24.380 There wasn't one,
00:27:25.560 was there?
00:27:29.740 So let me
00:27:30.780 explain.
00:27:33.600 Nobody
00:27:34.160 bringing advice
00:27:35.860 to the table
00:27:36.300 other than
00:27:36.760 CSIS
00:27:37.480 is assessing
00:27:39.320 against that threat.
00:27:42.120 Nobody advising
00:27:42.820 the Cabinet.
00:27:43.660 The Cabinet
00:27:44.120 is making that decision.
00:27:45.720 And their interpretation
00:27:46.600 of the law
00:27:47.580 is what governs here
00:27:49.440 and the advice
00:27:50.460 they get.
00:27:50.900 And their decision
00:27:52.860 was evidently
00:27:54.980 that the threshold
00:27:55.800 was met.
00:27:56.600 With respect
00:27:57.200 to the ministers
00:27:59.740 making the decision,
00:28:00.900 when you're talking
00:28:01.940 about ministers,
00:28:02.580 you're talking
00:28:02.980 about the elected
00:28:03.760 executive,
00:28:04.500 correct?
00:28:05.360 I am.
00:28:05.980 All right.
00:28:06.340 So the Prime Minister?
00:28:08.080 Among others.
00:28:08.700 Right.
00:28:09.200 To your knowledge,
00:28:10.120 what training
00:28:10.860 in national security
00:28:12.120 and law enforcement
00:28:13.720 does the Prime Minister
00:28:14.580 have?
00:28:16.000 I couldn't answer
00:28:16.860 that question.
00:28:17.460 Yes.
00:28:17.660 Can you agree with me
00:28:18.560 that he doesn't have any
00:28:19.520 to your knowledge?
00:28:20.900 I couldn't answer
00:28:21.740 that question.
00:28:22.220 I'm sorry.
00:28:22.760 All right.
00:28:23.180 You have the RCMP,
00:28:25.660 you have CSIS,
00:28:27.400 you have the entire
00:28:28.400 intelligence apparatus
00:28:29.560 and the federal government
00:28:30.520 and none of them
00:28:32.160 said that this threshold
00:28:35.120 was met,
00:28:35.840 did they?
00:28:36.940 They weren't asked.
00:28:38.820 Okay.
00:28:42.160 I thought it would be
00:28:43.600 useful to go through
00:28:46.000 exactly what is required
00:28:48.120 for the Emergencies Act
00:28:49.840 to be justified
00:28:51.380 because there seems
00:28:52.720 to be certainly
00:28:53.400 if you follow
00:28:53.940 the Twitter discourse
00:28:54.740 on this,
00:28:55.360 a fair bit of
00:28:55.860 misinformation circulating
00:28:57.160 where people who
00:28:57.860 just don't like the convoy
00:28:59.480 and are satisfied
00:29:00.180 with the fact
00:29:00.880 that it was brought
00:29:01.760 to an end
00:29:02.420 believe that
00:29:03.720 that Machiavellian truth
00:29:05.280 that the ends
00:29:05.840 justify the means
00:29:07.060 applies here,
00:29:08.460 which it doesn't.
00:29:09.780 I went on a
00:29:10.720 somewhat lengthy
00:29:11.480 Twitter thread
00:29:12.560 this afternoon
00:29:13.520 in which I talked
00:29:14.620 about this
00:29:14.980 and I said
00:29:15.560 point blank,
00:29:16.460 you do not need
00:29:17.240 to support the convoy
00:29:18.720 to oppose
00:29:20.140 the Emergencies Act.
00:29:21.260 There are plenty
00:29:21.660 of people
00:29:22.020 that opposed
00:29:22.560 the convoy,
00:29:23.540 didn't agree
00:29:24.120 with the message,
00:29:24.920 didn't agree
00:29:25.300 with the tactics,
00:29:26.160 whatever,
00:29:26.880 but also understood
00:29:27.880 that the Emergencies Act
00:29:28.980 was a profound overreach
00:29:30.400 and I think it's important
00:29:31.720 before you just talk
00:29:32.560 about whether you
00:29:33.020 liked the outcome
00:29:33.860 or not,
00:29:34.720 I encourage people
00:29:35.800 to actually read
00:29:37.320 the law
00:29:38.280 and I'm going
00:29:39.000 to do this.
00:29:39.520 We're going to go
00:29:39.860 back to civics class
00:29:40.860 for just a moment here.
00:29:42.120 Two laws in particular
00:29:43.300 that are relevant.
00:29:44.000 One is the Emergencies Act
00:29:45.700 and speaking of CESIS,
00:29:47.440 the other is the
00:29:48.220 Canadian Security
00:29:49.280 Intelligence Service Act.
00:29:52.260 Now both of these
00:29:53.240 acts contain
00:29:54.480 information that is
00:29:56.100 critical to defining
00:29:57.200 when the Emergencies Act
00:29:59.100 can be used
00:29:59.920 and the first thing
00:30:01.180 we need to realize here
00:30:02.140 is that Justin Trudeau
00:30:03.400 invoked a public
00:30:04.900 order emergency.
00:30:06.300 So there are other
00:30:07.180 things in there.
00:30:07.880 There are public
00:30:08.380 welfare emergencies,
00:30:09.700 there are war emergencies,
00:30:11.180 all of that is in
00:30:12.320 the Emergencies Act.
00:30:13.220 We're talking about
00:30:14.060 part two,
00:30:15.080 a public order
00:30:16.200 emergency.
00:30:17.640 Now this must arise
00:30:19.220 from the following,
00:30:21.560 threats to the
00:30:22.760 security of Canada
00:30:24.100 and a situation
00:30:25.680 that is so serious
00:30:27.100 as to be a
00:30:28.000 national emergency.
00:30:29.960 So there are two
00:30:30.580 premises there.
00:30:32.140 Premise one
00:30:32.880 is that a public
00:30:34.040 order emergency
00:30:34.740 requires there to be
00:30:35.760 an emergency arising
00:30:36.840 from threats
00:30:37.520 to the security
00:30:38.540 of Canada.
00:30:39.540 The second premise
00:30:40.900 is that it has to be
00:30:41.860 so serious
00:30:42.860 as to be
00:30:44.000 a national emergency.
00:30:46.660 Premise one
00:30:47.280 you see defined
00:30:48.140 underneath there.
00:30:49.660 Threats to the
00:30:50.260 security of Canada
00:30:51.060 that is defined
00:30:51.840 by the Canadian
00:30:52.620 Security Intelligence
00:30:53.620 Service Act
00:30:54.320 section two.
00:30:55.760 Now let's take a look
00:30:56.900 at section two
00:30:57.680 of the Canadian
00:30:58.500 Security Intelligence
00:30:59.740 Act,
00:31:00.200 why don't we?
00:31:00.700 It lists four
00:31:02.580 criteria.
00:31:04.300 One,
00:31:04.720 espionage or
00:31:05.740 sabotage.
00:31:07.060 Two,
00:31:07.700 foreign-influenced
00:31:08.740 activities that are
00:31:10.200 detrimental to the
00:31:11.100 interests of Canada.
00:31:12.040 Now I should say
00:31:13.120 here that foreign-
00:31:14.480 foreign-influenced
00:31:15.460 activities refers to
00:31:16.660 state-influenced
00:31:18.080 foreign state actors,
00:31:19.380 not just
00:31:19.880 oh a guy in Iowa
00:31:21.700 donated to the
00:31:22.560 convoy.
00:31:23.500 Number three,
00:31:24.360 activities within or
00:31:25.480 relating to Canada
00:31:26.400 directed toward or
00:31:27.660 in support of the
00:31:28.620 threat or use of
00:31:30.240 acts of serious
00:31:31.220 violence against
00:31:32.120 persons or property
00:31:33.400 for the purposes of
00:31:35.100 a political,
00:31:36.000 religious or
00:31:36.500 ideological objective.
00:31:38.740 D,
00:31:39.400 activities directed
00:31:40.680 toward undermining
00:31:41.900 by covert unlawful
00:31:43.180 acts or directed
00:31:44.460 toward or intended
00:31:45.380 to ultimately lead
00:31:46.240 to the destruction
00:31:46.900 or overthrow by
00:31:48.160 violence of the
00:31:49.020 established system
00:31:49.860 of government in
00:31:50.580 Canada.
00:31:50.980 And there's a
00:31:51.360 caveat there that
00:31:52.500 this does not
00:31:53.320 include lawful
00:31:54.400 advocacy,
00:31:55.300 protest or
00:31:56.420 dissent.
00:31:57.560 So those are
00:31:59.080 threats to the
00:32:00.020 security of Canada.
00:32:01.880 There was a
00:32:02.460 great moment
00:32:03.300 early on in the
00:32:04.280 Public Order
00:32:04.720 Emergency Commission
00:32:05.560 when Brendan
00:32:06.140 Miller was talking
00:32:07.020 to an OBP
00:32:08.220 intelligence officer
00:32:09.120 and he went
00:32:09.500 line by line.
00:32:10.600 Was there
00:32:10.880 evidence of
00:32:11.380 espionage?
00:32:12.060 Was there
00:32:12.280 evidence of
00:32:12.740 sabotage?
00:32:13.500 Was there
00:32:13.740 evidence of
00:32:14.320 foreign-influenced
00:32:15.280 activities?
00:32:15.940 And so on.
00:32:16.740 And the answer
00:32:17.420 was no to
00:32:18.260 every single
00:32:18.940 one of them.
00:32:20.480 So all of
00:32:21.460 those are the
00:32:22.380 criteria or any
00:32:24.500 one of for a
00:32:26.040 threat to the
00:32:27.040 security of Canada.
00:32:28.120 there still is a
00:32:30.000 premise here that
00:32:31.120 we haven't
00:32:31.660 addressed.
00:32:32.480 Let's say there
00:32:33.560 is a threat to
00:32:35.080 the security of
00:32:35.940 Canada constituting
00:32:37.000 a public order
00:32:37.660 emergency.
00:32:38.400 It still has to
00:32:39.720 rise to the
00:32:40.440 level of being a
00:32:41.740 national emergency
00:32:42.920 which carries yet
00:32:44.060 another definition.
00:32:46.100 And the national
00:32:47.060 emergency, we go
00:32:47.960 back to the
00:32:48.420 Emergencies Act,
00:32:49.280 is an urgent or
00:32:50.700 critical situation
00:32:51.540 that seriously
00:32:52.200 endangers the
00:32:52.940 lives, health and
00:32:53.700 safety of Canadians
00:32:54.560 and exceeds the
00:32:56.060 capacity or
00:32:56.780 authority of a
00:32:57.420 province to
00:32:57.960 deal with it, or
00:32:59.380 seriously threatens
00:33:00.640 the ability of the
00:33:01.840 government of
00:33:02.300 Canada to preserve 0.71
00:33:03.200 the sovereignty,
00:33:04.080 security, and
00:33:05.060 territorial integrity.
00:33:07.300 And there's another
00:33:07.940 caveat there, it 0.79
00:33:09.280 cannot be
00:33:10.580 effectively dealt
00:33:11.760 with under any
00:33:12.880 other law of
00:33:14.160 Canada.
00:33:15.100 So there has to
00:33:16.360 be a threat to
00:33:17.040 the security of
00:33:17.740 Canada, and it
00:33:18.940 has to be so
00:33:19.860 large as to be
00:33:22.200 exceeding the
00:33:23.240 ability of
00:33:23.800 provincial
00:33:24.120 governments to
00:33:24.760 look after it
00:33:25.420 and not
00:33:26.200 something that
00:33:26.780 can be dealt
00:33:27.240 with within
00:33:27.700 existing laws.
00:33:29.760 So even if
00:33:30.760 there were an
00:33:31.420 established threat,
00:33:32.540 which I have not
00:33:33.240 heard any evidence
00:33:34.080 of, there still
00:33:35.440 is that additional
00:33:36.400 test that would
00:33:37.580 need to be met,
00:33:38.220 which I also
00:33:38.860 think is very
00:33:39.860 questionable,
00:33:40.320 because all of
00:33:41.020 these police
00:33:41.500 officials have
00:33:42.060 been saying,
00:33:42.860 yes, we could
00:33:43.460 do this under
00:33:44.040 existing laws.
00:33:45.340 And again,
00:33:45.780 there's no
00:33:46.120 carve-out for
00:33:46.760 police incompetence,
00:33:47.800 there's no
00:33:48.140 carve-out for,
00:33:49.280 oh, but the
00:33:49.720 OPP wasn't
00:33:50.460 getting along with
00:33:51.180 the Ottawa Police
00:33:51.880 Service.
00:33:52.420 That does not
00:33:53.380 justify the
00:33:54.540 Emergencies Act.
00:33:56.500 So all of
00:33:57.260 these questions
00:33:57.800 you might have
00:33:58.480 about whether
00:33:59.280 the government
00:33:59.800 should have
00:34:00.180 engaged protesters,
00:34:01.600 how police
00:34:02.100 should have
00:34:02.420 responded, how
00:34:03.680 long the
00:34:04.160 protests should
00:34:04.700 have gone
00:34:05.000 along, this
00:34:06.020 is all stuff
00:34:06.920 that we can
00:34:07.420 debate, and I
00:34:08.000 would encourage
00:34:08.460 us to debate
00:34:09.140 it.
00:34:09.600 But it has
00:34:10.320 nothing to do
00:34:11.020 with that
00:34:11.380 question of
00:34:12.140 law, which
00:34:12.760 is not a
00:34:13.160 normative
00:34:13.460 question, that
00:34:14.340 question of
00:34:14.840 law, was
00:34:16.000 the Emergencies
00:34:17.360 Act justified?
00:34:18.580 And I don't
00:34:20.280 think you can
00:34:20.940 say under
00:34:21.720 these circumstances
00:34:22.780 with all of
00:34:23.640 the evidence
00:34:24.060 that we've
00:34:24.480 heard that
00:34:25.740 it was.
00:34:26.260 Now, there
00:34:27.320 is one little
00:34:28.060 catch there,
00:34:28.680 there's one
00:34:29.060 asterisk that
00:34:29.780 I want to
00:34:30.160 share, and
00:34:30.520 that is that
00:34:31.180 the Public
00:34:32.400 Order
00:34:33.140 Emergency,
00:34:34.100 the Emergencies
00:34:34.920 Act, says
00:34:36.420 that it's when
00:34:37.280 the Governor
00:34:37.880 in Council,
00:34:38.940 so that's
00:34:39.400 Cabinet,
00:34:39.940 believes,
00:34:41.240 and has,
00:34:42.940 the word
00:34:43.740 they use is
00:34:44.500 reasonable
00:34:45.000 grounds,
00:34:45.960 believes on
00:34:46.560 reasonable
00:34:47.040 grounds that
00:34:47.620 a Public
00:34:47.940 Order
00:34:48.200 Emergency
00:34:48.580 existed.
00:34:49.560 So there
00:34:50.060 may actually
00:34:50.780 be for the
00:34:51.360 government some
00:34:51.920 wiggle room that
00:34:52.600 even though there
00:34:53.060 was clearly no
00:34:53.840 emergency, well,
00:34:54.560 they had reasonable
00:34:55.860 grounds to
00:34:56.620 believe, and
00:34:57.820 that's the
00:34:58.280 aspect to be
00:34:59.040 worried about
00:34:59.500 here.
00:34:59.780 So it's very
00:35:00.580 interesting to
00:35:01.380 note not just
00:35:02.440 what the facts
00:35:03.080 were on the
00:35:03.560 ground, but how
00:35:04.720 many of those
00:35:05.420 facts Cabinet
00:35:06.320 knew about,
00:35:07.760 which is why it
00:35:08.600 was very critical
00:35:09.320 to learn that
00:35:10.300 Cabinet knew about
00:35:11.260 the negotiations
00:35:12.080 with police,
00:35:12.840 that Cabinet
00:35:13.280 knew about the
00:35:14.800 fact that there
00:35:15.340 were no
00:35:15.660 weapons, that
00:35:16.320 Cabinet knew
00:35:17.100 all of these
00:35:17.940 things, because
00:35:18.380 that's proof that
00:35:19.160 their reasonable
00:35:19.840 grounds were
00:35:21.060 being obliterated.
00:35:22.160 So I believe
00:35:23.220 what we say in
00:35:24.080 the current
00:35:24.580 parlance is thank
00:35:25.540 you for coming
00:35:26.100 to my TED
00:35:26.820 Talk.
00:35:27.400 That is how the
00:35:28.460 Emergencies Act
00:35:29.320 works.
00:35:29.960 We will continue
00:35:30.800 to follow the
00:35:31.440 Public Order
00:35:31.980 Emergency
00:35:32.380 Commission and
00:35:33.100 Chinese influence,
00:35:34.020 which I think
00:35:34.360 constitutes more
00:35:35.180 of an emergency
00:35:36.120 in Canada than
00:35:37.060 the truckers ever
00:35:38.040 did, and lots
00:35:39.260 more.
00:35:39.680 I thank you so
00:35:40.400 much.
00:35:40.640 If you want to
00:35:41.020 support the work
00:35:41.580 we're doing at
00:35:42.060 True North,
00:35:42.760 please head on
00:35:43.360 over to
00:35:43.780 donate.tnc.news,
00:35:45.760 donate.tnc.news,
00:35:47.640 and if you're
00:35:48.060 interested in
00:35:48.820 delving into what
00:35:50.500 truly happened in
00:35:51.700 Ottawa earlier this
00:35:52.640 year, you can pick
00:35:53.120 up a copy of my
00:35:53.760 book, The Freedom
00:35:54.960 Convoy, The Inside
00:35:56.060 Story of Three
00:35:57.180 Weeks That Shook
00:35:57.820 the World, and
00:35:58.280 thanks to all of
00:35:58.800 you who have
00:35:59.080 already read it and
00:36:00.220 enjoyed it.
00:36:01.160 To that effect, I
00:36:02.320 will say on
00:36:03.120 Saturday I'm going
00:36:04.440 to be in Whitby,
00:36:05.680 Ontario for Rebel 0.78
00:36:06.840 Live.
00:36:07.740 I'll be speaking
00:36:08.400 there, Tamara
00:36:09.080 Leach is going to
00:36:09.680 be speaking, Ezra
00:36:10.780 Levant, I believe
00:36:11.620 Arter Pulaski, I
00:36:13.160 think Maxine
00:36:13.720 Bernier is going to
00:36:14.320 be there, it's
00:36:14.760 going to be a lot
00:36:15.520 of fun, so if you
00:36:16.720 want to come out,
00:36:17.300 you can get tickets
00:36:17.940 at Rebel's website,
00:36:19.600 that'll be on
00:36:20.200 Saturday.
00:36:21.100 No idea when I'm
00:36:21.760 going to speak, but
00:36:22.440 hopefully we have a
00:36:23.240 good time, and if
00:36:24.400 you are there, do
00:36:25.080 come out and say
00:36:26.020 hello.
00:36:26.680 With that, I will
00:36:27.760 say farewell to
00:36:29.000 you all now, we'll
00:36:29.640 be back Friday for
00:36:30.580 Fake News Friday, and
00:36:32.080 then in Whitby on
00:36:33.280 the weekend.
00:36:34.020 Have a good one
00:36:34.480 everyone, thank you,
00:36:35.300 God bless, and
00:36:36.200 good day to you all.
00:36:37.080 Thanks for listening
00:36:38.340 to The Andrew
00:36:38.940 Lawton Show.
00:36:39.940 Support the
00:36:40.540 program by donating
00:36:41.420 to True North at
00:36:42.480 www.tnc.news.
00:36:45.520 .
00:36:46.520 .
00:36:47.520 .
00:36:48.520 .
00:36:49.520 .
00:36:51.520 .
00:36:53.520 .
00:36:55.520 .
00:36:55.580 .
00:36:55.640 .
00:36:55.680 .
00:36:55.740 .
00:36:55.780 .
00:36:55.820 .
00:36:55.840 .
00:36:55.880 .
00:36:55.920 .
00:36:55.940 .
00:36:55.980 .
00:36:56.020 .
00:36:56.080 .
00:36:56.120 .
00:36:56.140 .
00:36:56.180 .
00:36:56.220 .
00:36:56.240 .
00:36:56.280 .
00:36:56.320 .
00:36:56.340 .
00:36:56.380 .
00:36:56.420 .
00:36:56.740 .
00:36:56.780 .
00:36:56.840 .
00:36:56.880 .
00:36:56.920 .
00:36:57.220 .